₦airaland Forum

omar22:
I like Tyler Perry, but its looney if he thinks pandering to the black community would get him to the top, most of his films are low budget films and most of the actors and actresses he has used were low earners as well, knowing that the only Whoopi Goldberg and Thandie Newton where the highest profile artist he has used in his movies speaks volume, but common he has to grow, I used to like the low budget black films (like the bestman, The Wood, Love and Basket Ball etc but I quickly got bored of them, yes I do like watching Taye Digg, Nia Long, Sanaa, Terence Howard. But I want more from a movie not just the problems in the black community, but a real movie with a fantastic storyline, and who cares about the colour of the person playing the leading role! If someone ask me if I have the choice between 2 movies one Halle Berry is playing the leading role and is been played by Gabrielle Union. I would pick Halle Berry because I know that she would only act in movies that has almost a perfect storyline, not some gang related, in the hood type of attitude  movie.

In America it is a big issue, because many african americans have been ignored by Hollwyood for decades; so now that they are doing movies for themselves, they want to see their own in them because hollywood doesn't cater to them in their movies. That is the dilemma going on in America now facing Black american directors, where is the balance it's either they follow Spike lee's path or Tyler Perry's path. To me personally I could care less, I actually watch more Hollywood movies more then Black Hollywood movies, I'd rather watch the movie Lord Of the Rings, The proposal or Indiana Jones, and etc then Brown sugar, meet the browns, ATL, and etc. I'm not really interested in Black American movies most of the time; I have watch some though but not much to make a significance. The issue with Black hollywood is they have a dilemma, either do movies that center around african americans and their culture or assimilate with Hollywood and do movies where majority of the cast is not african american but white; and get more international recognition. The hard part of that is they will be competting with the big Dogs of Hollywood like Steven Speilberg, James cameron, white owned Hollywood studios like Warner bros, Paramount, Universal studios and etc to really get noticed(which is tough, Sipke Lee is still battling that from what I have heard) but the downfall is it will be a hollywood movie that has nothing to do with the african american community & they will be doing more of what Hollywood has been doing when it comes to movies and excluding african americans. It is sad but the hard truth. The only Black hollywood movies that seem to have made Hollywood success are "Dream girl", "Ray", and other Oscar winning african american movies like that as well(which is a small population).

tammyswits:
Am not just black, am African, but i think the blacks are more racist than the whites, Kim is a LovePeddler, but are the blacks they want to see in the movie any better?

I am not disagreeing or agreeing but I think you need to be specific because black africans are not the ones complaining about Tyler Perry it is his african american community, big difference. His movies reflect his communities culture not mine; so thats a issue african americans need to debate about. Africans are progressing their own cinema.

Outstrip:
Tyler Perry is no Spike Lee. I don't know how long he can keep this type of Tyler Perry thing going. It is not thought provoking. He will have to change his MO

I agree, there will always be a disagreement between the two but it seems to me most african americans to a extent have sided with Tyler but there are many that agree with Spike though

Outstrip:
Only by default. I am not sugar coating it. He has to be diverse or it just will not work in the long run. He knows it too. The idea that black people will be the one to determine his longevity is just wrong. Black people need to get over this "he is our's" mentality. At the end of the day he is a business man and Hollywood is taking note but he knows he needs to step up his game to take this to the next level. Maybe he will come up with a formula to throw in a couple of white people in every other film he does.  As long as you put church and a couple of people singing then a certain demographic will go watch it but like I said when I went to go see the last one (I think) that he released it was pretty much all white people with a very nice turn out

I am not denying that white people see his movies, however it is not a big population of them, but no matter what majority of the cast in his movies will always have to be african american because no matter what majority of the people going to see his movies in theaters are black, particularly african american. This route that you said that he has to be more diverse well if he represents Hollywood he can but that will mean he would do less movies that centers around african american cultures which includes the southern church life; Majority of whites don't like gospel southern churches it is not their style. Famous african american director Spike Lee did what you are saying he should do, and as years went by he stop making movies centering around his community & he lost his uniqueness, that he doesn't make successful movies like he did back in the 80's like jungle fever or do the right thing.

Legendary actor Harry belafonte said this to that Hollywood would never give african americans a chance in hollywood, it is up to african americans to do movies for their own:

"84-year-old legendary actor and entertainer Harry Belafonte says Hollywood has yet to explore the black experience and states that the industry will “never ever yield to the needs of the people of color.”

Mr. Belafonte made the remarks at a presentation on artists and activism held Wednesday [July 27] during the 102nd annual National Association for the Advancement of Colored People’s Convention.

Black thespians Louis Gossett Jr., Tatyana Ali, Hill Harper and members of the Black Stuntmen’s Association appeared alongside Belafonte at the panel discussion. He urged the NAACP to form a group of artists and thinkers to inspire the kind of “radical thought” necessary for change, and he called on black actors and filmmakers to “come together and create some institutional base that’s ours.”"

"“It seems to me that long ago we could have put together black studios, put together a black distribution center,” Belafonte said. “Maybe we couldn’t reach 100 million, but we could reach 100,000, and have 100,000 exposed to a great truth. I’d rather have that than 100 million exposed to something vacuous and inaccurate.”"

Belafonte also said that:

"“…in pursuit of ego, in pursuit of large, ridiculous sums of money, we have sold our birthright that somehow we are more victim than we are responsible.”"

"Though Mr. Belafonte was the most outspoken of the panelists, the other actors agreed that black artists and consumers are responsible for changing the way the entertainment industry represents people of color."

"“It’s very hard to find roles that I can be proud of,” said Ali, 32. “The archetypes for black women specifically have not fully been explored.”"

"Alex Brown and Willis Harris, representing the Black Stuntmen’s Association, talked about their experience fighting for change: They created the BSA in 1966 to end the exclusion of black stunt performers from Hollywood productions. Until then, white stuntmen were “painted” to perform stunts for black actors.

The performers all said that activism and education are essential to advancement in Hollywood. Belafonte said “radical thought” is critical."

"“You’re not going to find solutions until you’re willing to embrace radical thought,” he said. “Every time black people moved ahead in the history of this country is because somewhere in this nation, a group of people dared to think radically and do radical things.”"
http://blackthespian.com/harry-belafonte-hollywood-will-never-yield-to-the-needs-of-people-of-color/

Outstrip:
He might have got his big break from those that actually used to watch his plays way back then and then followed him to the movies but they are not who keep him relevant. If he cast Kim K in his movies these same people will go watch. It will not affect a dime of the outcome of his movie. I don't even consider Tyler Perry Black Hollywood. I don't even consider him Hollywood yet but that is were he is headed. He is one of a kind right now. he is not the typical and I am sure if you ask him he will say he is not black Hollywood.
I also find it hard to believe that an educated black person would only expect Tyler Perry to cast black people in his movies. That is ridiculous. The man is not silly. Kim K needs Tyler Perry more than Tyler Perry needs Kim K so I am not sure why he chose her but I will as well as most of my friends if not all (african american and white) will keep watching. Eventually the man will have to expand his horizon and there is nothing anybody can do about it not even Tyler Perry. I have only seen one of his movies from beginning to end and if any other one catches my attention I will go watch. I will be even more interested if it was more diverse.



PS
When I went to the movies to go so the one I actually saw from beginning to the end we were the only black people there though it was a predominantly white area but the movie theater had a nice turn out for the movie. I don't believe there was even one white person in that one. So white people actually watch it too. Simple to watch movies that usually tell a story or have a life lesson to learn.

Actually Tyler Perry Represents Black Hollywood, Hollywood is run by white men and many in Hollywood don't respect him; yeah their are a few whites that watch Tyler Perry movies but his movies cater to the African american demographic, majority of his fans are african american so he should take what they say seriously. To down play that to me is sugar coding it. His studio and everything is in Atlanta. Many white americans don't care for african american movies and television and that are the movies Tyler Perry does, so they are not inclined to watch it. Tyler Perry is getting attention because he is making movies for his demographic, and making alot of money for it, so Hollywood is taking a close look at him; but his movies represent the african american culture, black hollywood, & in a way another entity of Hollywood, that is just a fact.

Personally I am happy for Tyler Perry success but I am not a fan of his shows or all his movies, but I feel it is important he has a majority african american cast or black cast because his movies are catering to a community that is ignored by top white men in Hollywood that own Warner brothers, Paramount, Universal studios, and etc. Each community has a right to have a movie industry that caters to them , and black Hollywood caters to Black americans & african americans just like Bollywood caters to hindi and indian people in India and all of southeast Asia.


[b]If Perry Can Do Bad All By Himself, Should Black Critics Assign His Films to “Perry’s Inferno”?

We live in the age of Tyler Perry.

He is everywhere – on billboards, in sitcom credits, in profiles of Hollywood heavyweights. His stage and screen creation, Madea – a feisty, linebacker of a grandmother – has joined the pantheon of black comedic characters, a hall of fame that includes Flip Wilson’s Geraldine and Bill Cosby’s Fat Albert. And soon, Perry will appear in a thriller as the crime-solving psychologist Alex Cross, a role made famous by Oscar-winner Morgan Freeman. The film will be shot in Cleveland starting next month.

Perry is arguably the most successful black film director, producer and screenwriter in history, a mogul whose status in Hollywood is a testament to his business acumen and artistic ingenuity. Why then are there so many Tyler Perry haters?

There’s a huge market for his films. But the black literati have designated a special place in hell for them: Perry’s Inferno. The criticisms are harsh indeed. They go something like this:

•    Tyler Perry is the “KFC of black cinema.”
•    Tyler Perry’s television shows contain “old stereotypes of buffoonish, emasculated black men and crass, sassy black women.”
•    Tyler Perry is a no-count filmmaker whose works are excuses for feel-good sermonizing, not vehicles for human drama that will enlighten us.

This is just not the kind of criticism you’d expect to hear about a major black artist in the era of Obama. It sounds like disapproval for another era – that of the actor popularly known as Sleep ’n Eat, Willie Best’s character of the 1930s.

“I feel like Tyler Perry’s films are bad for your brain,” said Touré, TV host and cultural critic. “They promote a sort of victimhood: it is good and comfortable and okay to be a victim, especially in [the movie] ‘For Colored Girls,’ [featuring women] who are getting beat down by life in various ways and then at the end, they hug. They make no material change. They don’t get rid of the villains in their life. They don’t make attempts to move upward. They just hug. It’s victim indecency. I don’t think it’s positive to tell black people it’s okay to be victims.”

While Touré’s take is severe, he’s not the harshest critic out there. Seemingly, the king of Perry bosoms is Spike Lee, ’80s film maverick, Oscar nominee, and unofficial dean of modern black filmmakers. Lee pulls no punches in his discussions of Perry’s film aesthetics. He has been quoted as saying this:

“We shouldn’t think that Tyler Perry is going to make the same film that I am going to make … As African Americans, we’re not one monolithic group so there’s room for all of that, but at the same time, for me, the imagery is troubling and it harkens back to ‘Amos ‘n Andy.’”

Perry’s fans object, and not just verbally. They support him with their wallets. Perry has to be the most popular black filmmaker in history, perhaps because his films bask in the glow of the Southern black church, and are rooted in the ideals of prayer, faith, and family values. Some (not all) of his films seem like wholesome fare for picnic afternoons. And for many movie-goers, there’s value in that.

Black folk are hungry for stories that reflect their experiences, and Perry has tapped a deep vein of pent-up demand for black imagery both on screen and on stage. And it’s making him a bundle of money.

His “Meet the Browns” sitcom is one of the highest rated shows on TBS. Forbes ranked him as the sixth highest paid man in Hollywood – back in 2009. He signed a 100-episode deal for the “House of Payne” TV show, a deal valued at $200 million.

Many people think his accomplishments should be celebrated. He has come a long way from being mired in neglect and poverty, from dropping out of high school and attempting suicide as a boy to escape his father’s beatings. Perry says he learned from watching the “Oprah Winfrey Show” that writing can be therapeutic, and so he found refuge in words, eventually put $12,000 of his life savings on the line to finance his own musical, “I Know I’ve Been Changed.” He molded it into a hit, and he has never looked back.

Today, millions of people attend his stage productions and movies, laughing and loving the bold, pocketbook-flinging antics of Madea and the foolery of a castful of Perry characters. The laughter emanating from Perry’s audiences, due to the recognition of down-home truths about African American character traits, makes Lee’s audiences seem monkish in comparison.

Tyler Perry’s capitalist credentials are of a much higher order than Spike Lee’s. By 2005, according to Forbes, Perry had hit the jackpot: ticket sales in excess of $100 million, $30 million in video sales, and $20 million in merchandise sales. By then, he had ramped up to 300 live shows per year, which attracted weekly audiences of 35,000 people during tours of the so-called “chitlin circuit” of urban theaters. As of last month his films have raked in $500 million at the box office.

Still, waves of criticism keep rolling in, causing Perry to strike back. In reaction to the Spike Lee criticisms, Tyler Perry lashed out in the media earlier this year: “I’m so sick of hearing about damn Spike Lee. Spike can go straight to hell! I am sick of him saying, ‘This is a coon, this is a buffoon.’ I am sick of him talking about black people going to see movies. This is what he said: ‘You vote by what you see’ – as if black people don’t know what they want to see. I am sick of him. He talked about Whoopi, he talked about Oprah, he talked about me, he talked about Clint Eastwood. Spike Lee needs to shut the hell up!”

The Tyler Perry vs. Spike Lee spat has been called the modern-day version of the W.E.B. DuBois vs. Booker T. Washington rivalry.  Lee strongly disagrees with what some would characterize as Perry’s more conciliatory tone of black progress, just as DuBois spoke out against Washington’s acquiescent views of racial uplift through segregation and disenfranchisement.

Each has his defenders, and some people argue that the entertainment world needs both voices. But not Touré: “It’s hard for me to accept this argument that, well, we need both of them. I think we need people who make uplifting films where people try to move upward in their lives and not just accept victimhood.”

Touré  added: “Spike is making something that is artful, intelligent … He is far from a perfect filmmaker, but he is attempting art. What is Tyler Perry good at? Marketing? Is he good at cinematography? No. Screenwriting? No. Set building and designing? No. Dialogue? No. Working with actors and getting the most from them? No. Not only am I struggling to figure out what Tyler Perry is good at as a filmmaker; I think that he is purposely and willfully ignorant of what it means and takes to be a good filmmaker. It’s just not of interest to him. He works quickly. He doesn’t really have any concern for back story or details. If he were making chairs, they would fall apart.”
Perry’s defenders include Oprah Winfrey and Will Smith, immensely powerful Hollywood figures. Winfrey, for her part, offers that Madea is not negative or degrading, but that she’s an amalgamation of the strong black women who touched Perry’s life early on and who survived the vicissitudes of black life that would almost surely crush others.

Other black producers come to Perry’s defense too. “I actually admire what Tyler is doing,” said James DuBose, CEO of DuBose Entertainment, whose credits include the “Bad Boys of Comedy” on HBO and “Super Agent” on SPIKE TV, as well as shows for BET and NBC. “I’m a fan.”

He added: “It’s not like in our black community we don’t have an array of experiences. I just think that everybody should have the opportunity to articulate black life the way they experience it. … And I just think more of that should actually be shown in cinema and television.”

Hollywood – along with Wall Street and Madison Avenue – see African Americans as an increasingly powerful market segment with wide ranging movie-going tastes. Some 81% of movies seen by blacks do not feature a lead black star or have a black story line, according to a BET survey. The study also pointed out that only 3 of this year’s top 19 films featured black leads – Perry’s “For Colored Girls,” “Big Mama’s House: Like Father, Like Son,” and Perry’s “Why Did I Get Married Too?”

Also, blacks are more avid movie-goers than other groups, making 195 million trips to movie theaters annually – going twice per month on average for a minimum of 28 times per year.

What do they choose to view? Blacks spent the most to see comedy ($3.6 billion), followed by action-adventure ($2.8 billion), romance ($1.6 billion), sci-fi/fantasy/horror ($1.2 billion), animation ($1.2 billion), mystery/suspense ($1.1 billion) and children/teen/family fare ($835 million), the BET study found.

In light of this, Perry is attempting to give black audiences what they want – a smart business decision, no doubt. His comedies are aimed squarely at the largest segment of black cinema-goers

"Still, black cinema cannot be neatly divided into two camps, the Perryists vs. the Lees; there are other influential black directors and producers, among them Antoine Fuqua (“Training Day”), John Singleton (“Boyz N the Hood”) and Darnell Martin (“Cadillac Records”), the first black woman to have a major studio release. And then there are the independents – black filmmakers who add their voice to the black film vernacular by raising their own funds and negotiating their own distribution deals.

One such filmmaker is Ava DuVernay, head of a publicity firm that has worked on more than 100 film and television projects, including “Dreamgirls” and “Invictus.”  Last year, DuVernay directed three documentaries that were broadcast on BET and TV One. This year, she completed a feature film, “I Will Follow,“ which she wrote, directed and financed. The film, which stars Salli Richardson, received a thumbs-up from critic Roger Ebert and was released in AMC Theaters. It grossed $11,500 per screen on average, showing at 22 screens in 15 cities, so she was able to recoup her investment quickly.

DuVernay embraces the DIT – or Do It Together – concept. She helped create an organization other filmmakers can join — the African American Film Festival Releasing Movement. A small group that lends its creative talents to build grass-root support for indie films.

Also, instead of selling the DVD rights, she packaged and distributed the film on her own. “I made more money than the deals I was offered,” she told a blogger. “Companies take your DVD rights for 20 years. We made back our money in one year doing it on our own. We sold it to small hip hop and record stores. Then we got into Netflix and iTunes. We did get a Showtime deal that I orchestrated.”

Working in this fashion is perhaps the best way to circumvent the studio system and get your film out to audiences. DuVernay continued: “I work to make my films and to self-finance them. They’ll have small budgets – the  price of small cars. It’s really low budget filmmaking. A lot of people are doing it well.” Her goal is make one movie per year.

But getting a film produced and financed is difficult, particularly in this economy. “There aren’t that many black people that have significant amounts of disposable or investable cash, giving hundreds of thousands of dollars to films that may or may not make some money,” said Touré.

When you examine the economics of black film, the Tyler Perry juggernaut is a major success.  He puts black actors and film crews to work, no mean feat in a depressed economy. Those who don’t like the product must either balance the Perry imagery with their own cinematic creations, vote with their wallets, or lodge complaints –but as we all know, complaining certainly won’t stop the Perry show."[/b]
http://atlantapost.com/2011/07/25/hating-tyler-perry-why-does-he-raise-the-ire-of-the-black-intelligentsia/

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=797242.msg9516805#msg9516805 date=1320867867]@post

Yoruba history is always so fascinating. just wish we could capitalize on that. We have so many Non-Africans waiting to explore and learn. Gosh, Nigerians have soooo much resources, they dont know what to do with them.[/quote]cosign 100%, I agree

Outstrip:
Why must he use a black actress by the way

I guess it is because Tyler perry movies cater to the african american community; he one of the biggest directors in the Black Hollywood industry & since african americans are the ones that keep him relevant they expect him to put somebody that is black in the movie. If this was a Hollywood movie I would say you are 100% correct but for a black Hollywood Tyler Perry movie it isn't that clear cut

Outstrip:
The mans comment is the reason why Tyler Perry should use Kim K. What the heck does he mean she uses our black brothers. Is she begging them to be in relationships with her. Please come up with another reason. An intelligent one.

when it comes to the persons comments about Kim using Black men & everything, I feel that complaint is irrelevant to Tyler Perry and I agree with you in regards to that because that's Kim's problem. Personally I feel Kim & the black men she has been with are using each other, her problem as far as I am concerned.

well I guess all parties involved in this are even with each other LOL, Birds of a feather flock together

https://www.labelgirlhype.com/labelpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/reggie-amber-33-e1278444232117.jpg
https://static.igossip.com/photos_2/december_2010/kim_kardashian_pregnant_kanye_west_father.jpg

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2Vh2SL3W7Q[/flash]

rip

[b]"Heavy D was born in Jamaica, and moved to Mt. Vernon, NY, when he was a child. Heavy D & The Boyz, the group which he fronted, was the first act signed to Uptown Records, the record company started by Andre Harrell.

"Heavy D, the rapper whose real name is Dwight Arrington Myers, is dead at the young age of 44. He was known for heavyset physique, his dancing and tongue-twisting rhymes.

Lt. Mark Rosen of the Beverly Hills police told the Associated Press that Heavy D died in a Los Angeles hospital Tuesday after collapsing at his condominium building. Rosen said Beverly Hills police officers were dispatched to Heavy D's condominium building Tuesday morning after receiving a report of an unconscious person laying on the walkway of a building. They found Heavy D was conscious and communicative but had difficulty breathing and was transported to Cedars Sinai Medical Center, where he later died.

The police found no signs of foul play. According to Rosen, Heavy D "was returning home from shopping. He experienced difficulty breathing while walking into his condominium building. He was being assisted up to his apartment by building personnel when he collapsed in an exterior hallway."

Heavy D's death comes almost a month after a comeback performance at the 2011 BET Hip-Hop Awards, when he performed a medley of his best-known singles, among them "Nuttin' But Love," "Is It Good to You" and "Now That We Found Love."

On Twitter, he was known for posting affirming messages. His final tweet appeared early Tuesday morning.
I remember getting him to work with then-choreographer Rosie Perez and him looking at me, like, 'Should we really do this?'," Harrell told Essence. "And I said, 'a big man dancing is going to be really fun for people. It's gonna make them love you.'"

The group enjoyed widespread fame in the early 1990s, and scored prominent cameos on hit songs with Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson. Heavy D also appeared on the theme songs for the popular sketch comedy shows "In Living Color" and "MadTV," and later went on to run Uptown, the record label on which he'd spent much of his career.

But tragedy befell the group at the beginning of its commercial success. Troy Dixon, a member of the group known as Trouble T Roy, died in an accident after a show when he fell from an exit ramp. Dixon's death was the inspiration for Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth's "They Reminisce Over You (T.R.O.Y.)," which is widely considered one of the greatest hip-hop songs of all time.

Heavy D was name-checked on the Notorious B.I.G.'s first hit single, "Juicy," in which Biggie Smalls remembered growing up and wanting the kind of fame enjoyed by rap pioneers like Heavy D and Salt 'N Pepa. A young Biggie Smalls appeared on Heavy D's 1992 album "Blue Funk.""[/b]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/08/heavy-d-is-dead-at-44_n_1082822.html

Heavy D
https://www.billboard.com/photos/stylus/1290119-heavy-d-617-409.jpg

[quote author=Inked_Nerd link=topic=797561.msg9507656#msg9507656 date=1320777850]
I hope you know when you use the term 'half caste', its no different from you a black person being called a nigger or calling someone saying mulatto, quadroon, and octoroon which by the way are also derogatory. The word was coined to refer to individuals not fitting into the ranking system and considered undeserving of any social acceptability--traditionally less ostracised but more ridiculed than outcasts. In the past, people of color often times were generally seen as not being human beings so the terms in its origination is meant to degrade an individual. It's almost as though you [when I say 'you', I don't mean specifically mean you E-Engineer] are saying that someone is a dilluted form of the human species.[/quote]You have a point but in Nigeria they just use the word half-caste to identify mixed race people, not as a insult. The word Mulatto is still used as a common term in Latin America, even by governments there and in Africa(except south Africa, and a few other southern african countries it is used) the word half-caste is used. Majority of Nigerians in Nigeria & abroad to a extent are used to saying it & I doubt it will ever stop. Most of the people who bring up a problem about it are in the western world but in Nigeria it isn't a problem because the only meaning they connected to it is mixed race so I don't think it is fair to criticize him for using the word.

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[quote author=Inked_Nerd link=topic=797561.msg9507656#msg9507656 date=1320777850]
I hope you know when you use the term 'half caste', its no different from you a black person being called a nigger or calling someone saying mulatto, quadroon, and octoroon which by the way are also derogatory. The word was coined to refer to individuals not fitting into the ranking system and considered undeserving of any social acceptability--traditionally less ostracised but more ridiculed than outcasts. In the past, people of color often times were generally seen as not being human beings so the terms in its origination is meant to degrade an individual. It's almost as though you [when I say 'you', I don't mean specifically mean you E-Engineer] are saying that someone is a dilluted form of the human species.[/quote]You have a point but in Nigeria they just use the word half-caste to identify mixed race people, not as a insult. The word Mulatto is still used as a common term in Latin America, even by governments there and in Africa(except south Africa, and a few other southern african countries it is used) the word half-caste is used. Most Nigerians are used to saying it & I doubt it will ever stop. Most of the people who bring up the problem with it are in the western world but in Africa the only meaning they connected to it is mixed race so I don't think it is fair to criticize him for using the word.

I would also like to add that the word Nigger really had it's birth and genesis from America when the white masters were degrading african slaves & their african americans slave descendants, now the word has spread around the world(negatively & for popularity in the entertainment business), however it's usage is more north american, particularly America but african americans use the word against each other as if it is nothing and by african american rappers, and etc. I have seen african americans & Hispanic americans, especially the youths use the word to greet each other as if it's a positive word, black american entertainers use it in their music & black Hollywood music and etc:

[b]"Imagine if Mr. Rogers began his show off with the song, won’t you be mine, won’t you be mine, please won’t you be my nigga. He would have been the recipient of a severe backlash that would have had his show off the air in 24 days rather than the 24 years he was on the air in the US (1967-2001). This is partly because the word “nigga” in American vernacular, that goes back several centuries, was originally used exclusively in a derogatory sense to denigrate, psychologically subjugate, and to mentally scar the individual identities of blacks in the United States by white aggressors. It was a word that the European settlers used to dehumanize, demoralize and weaken the spirits of defenseless Africans and their slave families. The word continued to be publicly used after Emancipation, and during the civil rights period in the 20th Century it was popular with Southern Democrats. George Wallace publicly used it as he campaigned on the segregation ticket when he was elected governor of Alabama in 1966.

It was not until the 1970s that whites publicly diminished the use of that word as the political will of the country was telling us that the word “nigga” was unacceptable in any context. Nearly 370 years later the word became unacceptable and offensive in public speech. A successful effort to remove that word from our imaginations took form, but did it?

The word “nigga” not only has never left our vocabulary, but it is becoming increasingly popular in recent years. In addition, other racial denigrations have become popular in mainstream speech. For example, Shaquille O’Neal, the center for the Los Angeles Lakers said, “tell Yao Ming, ching, chinh chong” when asked about playing against him in an upcoming game. Although many from the Asian community were offended, Shaquille O’Neal did not suffer a serious backlash and his endorsement deals were never in jeopardy (Nestle, Burger King, Swatch Watch, Radio Shack, etc). The word “chink” has appeared on T-shirts, and “white boys” has replaced the 1970s word “honky” for white Americans. Maxine Waters, black Congresswoman and Donna Brazile, black Democratic Strategists have both publicly used the word “white boys” with absolutely zero backlash. Waters once said, “I don’t see them slamming young white boys on the hoods of police cars” when referring to a questionable use of force by an Inglewood Police officer in Los Angeles County during 2002.

But for non-blacks using the word “nigga,” one can expect a certain level of backlash regardless of the contexts. Ironically though, elements of our popular culture are bombarded with the word “nigga” everyday and there is no doubt that the word has not escaped the vocabulary of blacks, young and old, from the inner cities to the ivory towers, among the underclass and elite. In what context do blacks use this word today, and do their justifications of the use of the word create a double standard where non-blacks are vilified when the word “slips” from their mouths? How and why has the word become socially acceptable among blacks? Brandi Polk, undergraduate at California State University, Los Angeles said, “blacks should be the only ones that can say that word,” and this view, extremely popular among blacks, has created for others a double standard. If the word is highly distasteful and unpleasant, some believe (mostly non-blacks); the word should not be used by anyone, especially in public settings. Let’s examine the popular uses of the word “nigga” among blacks today."[/b]
http://www.streetgangs.com/race/wont-you-please-be-my-nigga-double

[b]"DETROIT (AP/Black Press staff reports) -There was no mourning at this funeral. Hundreds of onlookers cheered Monday afternoon as the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People put to rest a long-standing expression of racism by holding a public burial for the N-word during its annual convention.

In perhaps the most memorable civic gesture since former NAACP president Bruce S. Gordon (l) managed to get President George Bush to visit their 90th annual meeting in Washington, DC last year, delegates from across the country marched from downtown Detroit's Cobo Center to Hart Plaza to say a long over due goodbye to the N word. Two Percheron horses pulled a pine box adorned with a bouquet of fake black roses and a black ribbon printed with a derivation of the word.

The coffin is to be placed at historically black Detroit Memorial Park Cemetery and will have a headstone.

"Today we're not just burying the N-word, we're taking it out of our spirit," said Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. "We gather burying all the things that go with the N-word. We have to bury the 'pimps' and the 'hos' that go with it."

He continued: "Die N-word, and we don't want to see you 'round here no more."

The N-word has been used as a slur against blacks for more than a century. It remains a symbol of racism, but also is used by blacks when referring to other blacks, especially in comedy routines and rap and hip-hop music.

"This was the greatest child that racism ever birthed," the Rev. Otis Moss III, assistant pastor at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, said in his eulogy.

Public discussion on the word's use increased last year following a tirade by "Seinfeld" actor Michael Richards, who used it repeatedly during a Los Angeles comedy routine and later issued a public apology.

The issue about racially insensitive remarks heated up earlier this year after talk show host Don Imus described black members of the Rutgers University women's basketball team as "nappy-headed hos" on April 4.

Natalie Gilmore, Black Press Magazine Summer Editorial InternHip Hop community find continued use for "N" word

During an interview with Grammy-award winning rapper, Rhymefest, he said, "Rappers are the new civil rights leaders."

He went on to say that he will attempt to rid himself of the use the "N" word, but it may resurface because he "make[s] music for people who use the word in their lives."

At the BET Awards nominees day in May, rappers 50 Cents and T.I. fought back against journalists who questioned their usage of the word. In the podcast that runs on BlackPressRadio.com entitled, "Celebrities fight back," T.I. said, "There people like this in the word and as long as this fact exists I think rappers deserve the right to talk about it."

During the BET Awards a few weeks ago, many celebrities defied the traditionally leaders and used the word in their Q&A sessions with the press, even though they knew they were being recorded. Charlie Murphy, host of the embattled BET program, "Hot Ghetto Mess," said he has no issue with the word and plans to continue to use it.

"It's not going anywhere," said Murphy, who gain famed on the Dave Chapelle Show which was criticized for its heavy humor toward jokes about Black people.

Black leaders, including the Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, have challenged the entertainment industry and the American public to stop using the N-word and other racial slurs. Minister and rap icon Kurtis Blow called for people, especially young people, to stop buying music by artists who use offensive language.

"They wouldn't make rap songs if you didn't buy them. Stop supporting the stuff you don't want to hear," said Blow, who is credited with helping create the genre's popularity in the late 1970s and early 1980s. I've never used the N-word and I've recorded over 150 rap songs. I've never used profanity. It's possible you can use hip-hop and not offend anyone."

The Rev. Wendell Anthony, pastor of Detroit's Fellowship Chapel and member of the NAACP national board of directors, said the efforts were not an attack on young people or hip-hop.

He said they were a commentary on the culture the genre has produced.

"We're not thugs. We're not gangstas," Anthony told the crowd. "All of us has been guilty of this word. It's upon all of us to now kill this word."

The NAACP has been criticized with being out of touch with young blacks, but Tiffany Tilley said the organization is moving in the right direction.

"This is a great start," the 30-year-old Detroit resident said. "We need to continue to change the mentality of our people. It may take a generation, but it's definitely the movement we have to take."

The NAACP held a symbolic funeral in Detroit in 1944 for Jim Crow, the systematic, mostly Southern practice of discrimination against and segregation of blacks from the end of post-Civil War Reconstruction into the mid-20th century. While odds are very slim that the "N" word will never leave American culture, it was nice to see the funeral if for no other reason than what it symbolized."[/b]
http://www.blackpress.org/naacp.htm

[b]"GUATEMALA CITY (AP) — A torrent of gray, toxic water spews from a drainage tunnel and surges along the ravine, tumbling along garbage that has fallen from the Guatemalan capital's main landfill 1,000 feet (300 meters) above.

Despite the foul odors, the danger of unstable piles of garbage collapsing and the chance for heavy rain to suddenly raise the water level, dozens of people are busily at work searching for jewelry and other metal scraps knocked loose from the trash.

They call the ravine the "mine," and refer to themselves as "miners."

Every day, about 300 hike to the bottom of the ravine and wade into the water in search of rings and bracelets made of silver or gold. The water sifts and carries away the lighter garbage, leaving heavy metals on the stream bed.

"I make more money coming here than going to a company where they would continually scold me," says 41-year-old Eddie Miranda.

He says he finds scraps worth 150 quetzals, or $20, almost every day.

He got lucky on a recent day. "I found a bracelet with 9 grams (0.32 avoir ounces) of gold. I got 2,000 quetzals ($256) for it."

It may not seem like much, but it's almost as much as the monthly $270 minimum wage in this Central American nation.

At dawn, the scavengers arrive much as if coming to a regular work place. Many are wearing clean, ironed shirts and even whistling. They carry shovels and backpacks filled with their garbage bags, snacks and change of clothes. They leave their dry clothes at an improvised camp and start looking for treasures.

Scavenging, which is prohibited by the government, can get particularly dangerous during storm season. The workers say many have died while trying to pick garbage out of water raging through the ravine.

Dozens perished one day in 2008 when a mountain of garbage collapsed on them.

"The piles of rubbish and dirt bounced off the bottom of the river and dragged me while I was trying to escape," said Antonio Yupe, 32, a scavenger who survived the disaster. "I took a lot of spins. I broke my leg. I don't know how, but I was buried with my face uncovered, so I could breathe until I was rescued."

Still, the "miners" call the dangerous heavy rain "the blessing of winter," because the increased flow of water improves their chances of finding more metal.

If the scavengers don't find jewelry, they collect screws, faucets and other recyclable metal items that they can sell for 85 cents a pound. That amounts to twice the minimum wage for an average trip.

A few yards (meters) from the mouth of the tunnel, 35-year-old Avelino Perez and 19-year-old Julio Leja are up to their necks in water, surrounded by towering mounds of garbage. They push their shovels down into the current to bring up scrap metal, food containers and other objects.

Perez seems happy. He shows off a dirty Roman Catholic cross he has plucked from the bottom. His fingers look burned with acid and his nails are yellow. But he smiles.

"It's gold. I may get 500 quetzals ($65) for it.""[/b]
http://news.yahoo.com/guatemalas-trash-miners-risk-lives-gold-172213176.html

https://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/GV7AwCGW2_xnVQRGojqOLA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9Mzc0NDtjcj0xO2N3PTU2MTY7ZHg9MDtkeT0wO2ZpPXVsY3JvcDtoPTQyMDtxPTg1O3c9NjMw/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/f7cf55b3cc358818fd0e6a706700dbb0.jpg

Crayola1:
Very beautiful pieces of artwork that definitely challenge long held assumptions about West Africa and Africa in general
They were able to do in one try what the Greeks had to do several times over (through repairs and etc)

I hope Nigeria capitalizes on their history and art in the near future

Cosign 100%, I agree

I hope so to but I already see signs that Nigeria is starting that now:

[flash=500,500]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHzWEtZNxPQ&feature=related[/flash]
[flash=500,500]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9wywulUX08&feature=related[/flash]

ANSWER: The Europeans


watch the explanation on this documentary called: GUNS, GERMS & STEEL

[flash=500,500]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC76ywLyBvE&feature=related[/flash]
[flash=500,500]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxSoJrVum0c&feature=related[/flash]
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52WgIDa4TUs&feature=related[/flash]
[flash=500,500]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znpG7uzwyrU&feature=related[/flash]
[flash=500,500]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5HBKJwViaM&feature=related[/flash]
[flash=500,500]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqsizNMI6g8&feature=related[/flash]

Rgp92:
Many Yoruba muslim belive Oduduwa is from mecca. When the Arab and yoruba start trading, them arabs try to convert us to islam. One of the propaganda they should was that Oduduwa was from Mecca. We can all thank Oba of oyo for not beliving that shi.t and for defending yoruba people from arab invaders.

I never understood that Mecca nonsense with Oduduwa, I don't know why some Muslim Yoruba embraced that explanation. Any way thanks for the info, I guess we should thank Oba of Oyo to the fulliest.

Rgp92:
I belive we Yoruba are descendent of Nok people. And were not from Egypt.

Rgp92:
Oduduwa is not from the north, just the Arab playing with us.

understood

well the Nok connection with the Yoruba's are factual but I guess the Egyptian connection maybe to far back to be confirmed, it is still a never ending debate in the Yoruba community but the Nok ancestral connection to Yoruba is fact but I never ever believe Yoruba are from Arabs( I don't know who believes that). I have heard the original Egyptians were black africans(since their ancestors are the Nubians) but lighter until they started mixing with Arabs, Greeks, and etc though

emmatok:
The Egyptian religion and other cultural practices show strong African and more so Yorubic characteristics. These can be seen in the following areas:
1. The lost wax method of brass or bronze making, which was common to both the Yoruba peoples (particular Ife) and the ancient Egyptians.
2. The ritual of initiation
3. Striving to achieve the ultimate in “Good” and truth (summun bonum)
4. The doctrine of transmigration of soul and reincarnation is widely believed in, by both peoples.
5. The concept of the ‘god king’.
6. Aspiration to achieve the great ‘good’ of the gods – ‘wealth health and long life’.
7. The Yorubic regalia, in most cases, are strikingly similar to pharoanic ones.
8. Veneration of the Ram in both places. Among the eastern Yorubas (Itsekiri especially, most of the water deities are depicted as ram following the predynastic and pharoanic patterns).
9. Both peoples answer the theophorous names.

True, I believe their is a Egyptian-Nok-Yoruba connection; and the bronze casting we see now from ife is uniquely from the yoruba's but I feel they got some influence from the Nok, who also did bronze casting as well but not as advanced, & the egyptians were superb in making their structures as well.

[quote author=Chyz* link=topic=797242.msg9508340#msg9508340 date=1320783155]The Igbos have this same claim to egypt as well as other African groups. Lets get back to present day nigeria.[/quote]actually I never heard a igbo claim egypt, I have heard them claim other cultures but not Egypt. That claim I have seen more from Yoruba

[quote author=Chyz* link=topic=797242.msg9508313#msg9508313 date=1320783015]I'm not getting your point. Are you saying that you will not believe/admit to the story and evidence of the binis because "they believe their kings came from the sky"? What if they said their kings were from Igboland would you then believe their story on oduduwa? Also, if it is a cultural practice of the binis to say there kings came from heaven then that supports even more their influence of practices and culture in Ife through oduduwa,a bini.

Did oduduwa create/give birth the yoruba people or were there already yorubas there?

About the Nok, we all know about them. There is a reason why Yorubas,Edos,Igbos,Idoma,Igala share some of the same language. What does the nok have to do with it though? I asked if there was broze casting in yoruba land before the arrival of oduduwa.[/quote]I am not admitting to nothing because I don't believe it, only the benin believe that story, Yoruba's don't and they have their own story. What I am saying is if you are telling me not to believe the yoruba account that oduduwa fell from the sky, and speak as if it is you & all benins think it is nonsence when you believe in that for your own origins then you have no right to criticise yoruba's in what they believe either, and I already told you I don't believe he came from the sky.

"“The Yoruba history begins with the migration of an east African population across the trans-African route leading from Mid-Nile river area to the Mid-Niger. Archaeologists, according to M. Omoleya, inform us that the Nigerian region was inhabited more than forty thousand years ago, or as far back as 65,000BC. During this period, the Nok culture occupied the region. The Nok culture was visited by the “Yoruba people”, between 2000BC and 500BC. This group of people was led, according to Yoruba historical accounts by king Oduduwa, who settled peacefully in the already established Ile-Ife, the sacred city of the indigenous Nok people. "
http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2139

I brought up the Nok because of the Bronze casting not because of anything else, also the igbo's & Igala have nothing to do with the Nok or share the same language with Yoruba's; that is a bunch of nonsence
If the Yoruba's ancestors came from the Nok, and the Nok also did bronze casting then they must have been doing bronze casting in yorubaland before IFE.

"WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT YORUBA'S(INCLUDING ME) WILL NEVER BELIEVE THE BENIN STORY OF ODUDUWA BECAUSE WE HAVE OUR OWN VERSION. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN BINI'S BELIEVING THEIR VERSION BUT THEY CAN'T FORCE THAT ONTO YORUBA'S, JUST ACCEPT IT."

emmatok:
Oduduwa migrated from Egypt, that is where the Yorubas learnt The 'Bronze Casting.

[b]Benin [/b]name never exist during that period.

[b]THE ODUDUWAN REVOLUTION

In the first chapter, we talked about the aboriginal nature of the Yoruban peoples. In this chapter, we shall talk of a possible migration from ancient Egypt. Many traditions point to a fact that an alien group (Egyptians) immigrated to Yoruba land and mixed with the original population.

Many oral traditions are replete with these stories. The Awujale of Ijebu land has shown that the Ijebus are descended from ancient Nubia (a colony of Egypt). He was able to use the evidence of language, body, scarification, coronation rituals that are similar to Nubians’ etc, to show that the Ijebus are descendants of the Nubians. What the present Awujale claimed for the Ijebus, can be authenticated all over Yoruba land. The Awujale even mentioned (2004) that the Itsekiri (an eastern Yoruba dialect) are speaking the original Ijebu language.

Since the Nubians were descended or colonized by the Egyptians, the Ijebu, and by extension, all Yoruba customs, derived from the Egyptian. Many traditional Yorubas have always claimed Egypt as their place of original abode, and that their monarchical tradition derives from the Egyptians’. Apostle Atigbiofor Atsuliaghan, a high priest of Umale-Okun, and a direct descendant of Orunmila, claimed that the Yorubas left Egypt as a result of a big war that engulfed the whole of Egypt. He said the Egyptian remnants settled in various places, two important places being Ode Itsekiri and Ile-Ife.Chief O.N Rewane says “Oral tradition has it also that when the Yorubas came from South of Egypt they did not go straight to where they now occupy. They settled at Illushi, some at Asaba area – Ebu, Olukumi Ukwunzu while some settled at Ode-Itsekiri,.” (O.N. Rewane Royalty Magazine A PICTORIAL SOUVENIR OF THE BURIAL AND CORONATION OF OLU OF WARRI, WARRI 1987)

Since these oral traditions are passed on by very illiterate people, we can augment whatever is recorded with written sources. Concerning the migration of some of the Yoruban ancestors from the east, Conton says:

The Yoruba of Nigeria are believed by many modern historians to be descended from a people who were living on the banks of the Nile 2,000 years ago, and who were at the time in close contact with the Egyptians and the Jews. Sometime before AD 600, if this belief is correct, this people must have left their fertile lands, for reasons which we can not now discover and have joined in the ceaseless movement of tribes west wards and south-wards across our continent.

We can only guess at the many adventures they and their descendants must have had on their long journey and at the number of generations which passed before they arrived. All we can be certain about is that they were a Negro people (of which ancient Egypt probably had at least one community as we have seen) and that one of the many princely states they founded on their arrival in West Africa…, was Ife.’ Conton WF (1960. 71

Although we agree with Conton that some of the Yoruban ancestors migrated from Egypt, we tend to toe the scientific line of Cheik Anta Diop, that the ancient Egyptians were pure Negroes.

Aderibigbe, an indigenous scholar, also accepts that the Yorubas migrated from Egypt. He says:

“The general trend of these theories, most of them based on Yoruba traditions, is that of a possible origin from “the east”. Some scholars, impressed by the similarities between Yoruba and ancient Egyptian culture – religious observation, works of art, burial and other customs – speak of a possible migration of the ancestors of the Yoruba from the upper Nile (as early as 2000BC – 1000BC) as a result of some upheavals in ancient Egypt”. (AB ADERIBIGBE 1976)

Unlike Conton, Aderibigbe was able to pinpoint a cause for the Yoruban migration – war. Olumide Lucas did a lot of job to show similarities and identities between the ancient Egyptians and the Yoruban peoples. The date that Aderibigbe gave (2000BC – 1000BC) is much earlier than that given by Conton. Aderibigbe’s date corresponds to that of the Hyksos invasion of Egypt 2000-1500BC. On the possible eastern origin of the Yorubas, Tariqh Sawandi says:

"“The Yoruba history begins with the migration of an east African population across the trans-African route leading from Mid-Nile river area to the Mid-Niger. Archaeologists, according to M. Omoleya, inform us that the Nigerian region was inhabited more than forty thousand years ago, or as far back as 65,000BC. During this period, the Nok culture occupied the region. The Nok culture was visited by the “Yoruba people”, between 2000BC and 500BC. This group of people was led, according to Yoruba historical accounts by king Oduduwa, who settled peacefully in the already established Ile-Ife, the sacred city of the indigenous Nok people. "[/b]
http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2139

[quote author=Chyz* link=topic=797242.msg9508053#msg9508053 date=1320781088]So to some it up, he is not yoruba. I'm glad you know that. By your right up I can tell that you know the Binis are right. There is nothing about their story that see far-fetched. They can pin point Odudwa back to a particular place. They are able to give his real name along with a bio with supporting evidence, the yoruba were unable to do such. Before Oduduwa came to Ife the Binis were bronze casting. Was there any bronze casting in ife before the arrival of oduduwa? If so, can you please provide the evidence?[/quote]No, I don't think the bini's are right, YOU DO; bini's are the only ones that tell that version of the story, Yoruba's have a very different version and for you to discount the yoruba's version that oduduwa came from the sky or the east from a non-benin land when Edo's also believe their ancestors came from the sky is hyprocritcal to me:

""Thus the Edo people believe that their kings come from the sky or more appropriately, from Heaven or from God. It is this belief which explains why the Oba or king is the embodiment of the culture of the Edo people.  The story of the people cannot be written without reference to their king or Oba. Indeed, everything revolves round the Oba."-"
http://www.edofolks.com/html/pub55.htm

"The original people and founders of the Benin Empire, the Edo people, were initially ruled by the Ogisos (Kings of the Sky) who called their land Igodomigodo."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin_Empire#Origin

Also the Nok had ability to do bronze casting to as well, and they existed way before the YORUBA'S and BENIN'S:
[b]"The Nok culture appeared in Nigeria around 1000 B.C. and mysteriously vanished around 500 AD in the region of West Africa. This region lies in Central Nigeria. The culture’s social system is thought to have been highly advanced. The Nok culture was considered to be the earliest sub-Saharan producer of life-sized Terracotta. It is acknowledged that the Nok civilization eventually evolved into the later Yoruba civilization of Ife. Nok works of art have been found to have uncanny lookalikes among later Yoruba Ife and Yoruba Esie brass, bronze, copper and soapstone figures.

The refinement of this culture is attested to by the image of a Nok dignitary at the Minneapolis Institute of Arts. The dignitary is portrayed wearing a "shepherds crook" affixed with an elastic material to the right arm ([3], [4]). The dignitary is also portrayed sitting with flared nostrils, and an open mouth suggesting performance.

Iron use, in smelting and forging for tools, appears in Nok culture in Africa at least by 550 BC and more probably in the middle of the second millennium BC (between 1400 BC and 1600 BC depending on references)"[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nok_culture

[b]"Ife artists learned their skills from their Nok predecessors (though an intermediate culture between Nok and Ife has not yet been found)"
http://www.xenohistorian.faithweb.com/africa/af05.html#Top

emmatok:
Oduduwa migrated from Egypt, that is where the Yorubas learnt The 'Bronze Casting.

[b]Benin [/b]name never exist during that period.

I believe the bronze casting was unique to the Yoruba's and a few other tribes but I feel the influence behind it came from the Nok(but the Yoruba's advanced the technique to their own way which made it uniquely theres).  Egyptians had nothing to do with Yoruba's bronze casting technique. We must also understand that in the ancient times some techniques were founded on their own without the help or knowlegde of others. My belief is the Yoruba's ancestors which are the Nok were a migrated tribe from a southern tribe in Egypt.

people also need to understand that all tribes in Africa came from a common source; the first humans came from northeast or East africa before everybody in Africa seperated into different tribes and changed in appearance as well:
"In paleoanthropology, the recent African origin of modern humans is the most widely accepted model describing the origin and early dispersal of anatomically modern humans"
"The recent single origin of modern humans in East Africa is the predominant position held within the scientific community.["
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans

[quote author=Chyz* link=topic=797242.msg9506985#msg9506985 date=1320772395]@anonymous6,

Where in yoruba land was Oduduwa from? Pls, don't give me Ife, the place where he came to rule. Also, what is the meaning of Oduduwa in yoruba?

Do take in mind we are know he didn't literally came down from the sky/heavens like claim by mythology. The "came down from the heavens" more than likely is a metaphor for "he came from somewhere else". The other the other saying of he came from the east also supports that the claim of him coming from Benin area. Of course this is excluding the whole mecca claim which was constructed by muslims.[/quote][b]I don't believe ODUDUWA came from Benin(you want to believe that) Or Mecca but he may have been to mecca at one point. however I don't believe he came from the sky either; the only others that say he is from the east and supports that he is from Benin, are the benins themselves. the yoruba's have said differently(they say he from the east but not from Benin) & it has nothing to do with Muslims but I feel the muslims say alot about it because of the homeland of Mecca is connected to them. I have heard the yoruba's have migrated from a southern tribe in Egypt & I beleive that theory more. From my experience from what I have heard from benins & Yoruba's is that we are connected through a common paternal ancestral line which is Oduduwa but the dispute that always comes up between the two tribes is who came from who. Some Benins believe yoruba came from Benins and Yoruba's believe benins came from the Yoruba's.

The benins & yoruba's will always but heads with this story of whether Oduduwa is Benin or Yoruba and depending on what tribe you are in you will believe either or but I think it is unfair to criticise Yoruba's view of where Oduduwa came from; the sky when the benins believe that their ancestors came from the sky as well:[/b]

"Thus the Edo people believe that their kings come from the sky or more appropriately, from Heaven or from God. It is this belief which explains why the Oba or king is the embodiment of the culture of the Edo people.  The story of the people cannot be written without reference to their king or Oba. Indeed, everything revolves round the Oba.""
http://www.edofolks.com/html/pub55.htm

exotik:
and yorubas are arabs!!!

no matter how you spin this the itsekiri's are a tribe of mixed origin but they have a significant yoruba ancestry

ITSEKIRI
"The Itsekiri monarch is known by the title 'Olu of Warri'. The Itsekiris speak a language very closely akin to Yoruba and Igala but which has also been significantly influenced by other languages particularly Portuguese, Edo (Benin), English and a few borrowings from neighbouring Ijo and Urhobo languages. Although linguistically related to the Yoruba ethnic group, however, the Itsekiris are of very mixed ethnic origins (primarily of Yoruba (Ijebu, Ilaje,Ondo and Owo), Edo, Igala, Urhobo,Ijo and Anglo-Scottish and Portuguese descent) and are today mainly Christian (Protestant and Roman Catholic) by religion"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itsekiri_people

I never heard yoruba's say they are from the Arab race but I have heard the Mecca claim though from some muslim Yoruba's and the Egyptian connection & claim from non-muslim yoruba's:
"The palace traditionists of Oyo claim that the Yoruba originated from Mecca. In the course of a monotheistic uprising the king Lamarudu is said to have been slain by the people of Braima. However, the crown-prince Oduduwa was able to flee with numerous followers and to find his way to the region of Lake Tchad, to Gobir and then to a spot further south were he founded the city of Ile-Ife.[2] The validity of this account is confirmed by Muhammed Bello who wrote in 1812 CE that the "people of Yoruba are descendants from the Canaanites of the kindred of Nimrod" and that they were driven out "of Iraq, whence they travelled westward and then (southward] to Egypt, Ethiopia until they finally reached Yoruba""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyo_Empire

[quote author=Chyz* link=topic=797242.msg9506513#msg9506513 date=1320768634]Oramiyan was Bini,not yoruba. His mother was yoruba but his father, Oduduwa, was a clean-cut Bini man. Stop with the revisions people![/quote]Oduduwa was not bini, he is Yoruba; some bini claim he was from bini and his name is Ekaladerhan

[b]"Oduduwa, phonetically written as Odùduwà, and sometimes contracted as Odudua, Oòdua, is generally held among the Yoruba to be the ancestor of the crowned Yoruba kings.

Several legends concerning the origin and ancestry of Oduduwa abound in Yoruba and Benin mythology. The Yorubas believe he is the father of the Yoruba’s and progenitor of all Yoruba Oba's and the Oba of Benin. The Benin believe that he is a Benin prince called EKALADERHAN who was banished by his father, the Ogiso of Benin. His name, the Benins claim, is derived from 'Idoduwa", a Benin word meaning fortune's path, symbolizing the painful exile from his ancestral home. In support of this, they claim, Oduduwa's son Oranmiyan later returned to Benin to rule the Empire around 1,000 AD. Oduduwa is believed to have had several sons (16 in number) who later became powerful traditional rulers of Yoruba land, most notably Alafin of Oyo, Oni of Ife, Oragun of Ila, Owa of Ilesha, Alake of Abeokuta and Osemawe of Ondo. Yoruba tradition holds that Oduduwa fled from Mecca to Ile-Ife, bringing with him the Ifa religion which was under persecution in Mecca. He established it firmly in Ile-Ife and founded the Ogboni cult to protect the ancient customs and institutions of his people. The Oduduwa shrine is still worshipped today in Ile-Ife as the cradle of Yoruba culture.

Oral history of the Oyo-Yoruba recount the coming of Oduduwa from the east, sometimes understood by Muslim sources as the "vicinity" or direction of Mecca, but more likely signifying the region of Ekiti and Okun sub-ethnics in northeastern Yorubaland/central Nigeria. A strong theory among the Yoruba is that Oduduwa came from the region of Egypt or Nubia and may have been fleeing from religious persecution or invasion, possibly coinciding with the Greek invasion and colonization of Egypt in the 4th century BCE. Oduduwa is presumed to have entered the Ekiti-Yoruba and Okun-Yoruba region. This region is near the confluence of the Niger and Benue rivers, and is where the Yoruba language is presumed to have separated from related ethno-linguistic groups like Igala, Igbo, and Edo

The Ife oral traditions, on the other hand, tell that Odùduwà was the son of the supreme god Olodumare or Olorun, and was sent by him from heaven to create the earth. (Another version of this myth ascribes these episodes to Obatala, casting Oodua, as an usurper).

Descending from the heavens via a chain let down to Ile Ife, Obatala brought with him a cockerel, a pigeon, and a calabash full of dirt. After throwing the soil upon the waters, he set the cockerel and pigeon on the pile of dirt that, in turn, scratched and scattered it around to create the rest of dry land that became the Earth's surface.

Odùduwà  subsequently became one of the first kings of Ife, and then sent his sons out with crowns to rule over all of the other Yorùbá kingdoms, which is why all royal Yorùbá lineages claim direct descent from Odùduwà and refer to the Ooni of Ife as first among equals (popularly rendered in the Latin phrase primus inter pares in Nigeria).

Ile Ife continues to be considered the spiritual capital of the Yoruba"[/b]
http://www.coastalnews.com/component/content/article/120-nigeria-news/592-oduduwa-the-ancestor-of-the-crowned-yoruba-kings.html

[b]
Oduduwa Omoluabi, Olofin Adimula, Emperor of the Yoruba, phonetically written by his people as Odùduwà, and sometimes contracted as Odudua or Oòdua, is generally held among the Yoruba to be the reigning ancestor of the crowned Yoruba kings.[1]

NARRATIVE

Oral history of the Oyo-Yoruba recounts the coming of Oduduwa from the east, sometimes understood by some sources as the "vicinity" of Mecca, but more likely signifying the region of Ekiti and Okun sub-communities in northeastern Yorubaland/central Nigeria. Ekiti is near the confluence of the Niger and Benue rivers, and is where the Yoruba language is presumed to have separated from related ethno-linguistic groupings like Igala, Igbo, and Edo.[3]

When Oduduwa arrived ancient Ife, he and his group are believed to have conquered the component communities and to have evolved the palace structure with its effective centralized power and dynasty. Going by the tribal records, he is commonly referred to as the first Ooni of Ife and progenitor of the Yoruba people.

Some oral traditions claim that Oduduwa was Olodumare's favourite orisha, and as such was sent from heaven to create the earth. This is generally seen as the Ife-Yoruba version of events, and is described in detail below.

EKALADERHAN
Alternatively, the Benin believe that he was a prince that was banished by his father, the "Ogiso" of Benin. His name, they claim, is derived from "Idoduwa", meaning "fortune's path", symbolizing the painful exile from his ancestral home. In support of this view, they claim, Oduduwa's grandson Oranmiyan later returned to Benin to rule the Empire around 1,100 AD.[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oduduwa#Narrative

[b]"The African peoples who lived in Yorubaland, at least by the seventh century BC, were not initially known as the Yoruba, although they shared a common ethnicity and language group. Both archeology and traditional Yoruba oral historians confirm the existence of people in this region for several millennial. Yoruba spiritual heritage maintains that the Yoruba ethnic groups are a unique people who originally settled at Ile-Ife. Legend holds that Oduduwa created the world at this place by delegation from the high God, Eledumare. The name "Yoruba" is an adaptation of "euroba" (arabism). Yoruba civilization remains one of the most technologically and artistically advanced in West Africa to this time.

Some contemporary historians contend that the leading Yoruba are not indigenous to Yorubaland, but are descendants of immigrants from the ancient Near East to the region. According to the dynastic tradition of Oyo, the people left Mecca, under whose leadership of Oduduwa and reached Yorubaland towards 600 BCE where they established the kingdom of Ife.[1] Oduduwa's relatives established kingdoms in the rest of Yorubaland. One of Oduduwa's sons, Oranmiyan, took the throne of Benin and expanded the Oduduwa Dynasty eastwards. Further expansion led to the establishment of the Yoruba in what are now Southwest Nigeria, Benin, and Togo, with Yoruba city-states acknowledging the spiritual heritage primacy of the ancient city of Ile Ife. The southeastern Benin Empire, ruled by a dynasty that traced its ancestry to Ifẹ and Oduduwa but largely populated by the Edo and other related ethnicities, also held considerable sway in the election of nobles and kings in eastern Yorùbáland."[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Yoruba_people