₦airaland Forum

This is a very simple case.its a matter of knowing what date Imam Ali embraced islam and what date Zaid embraced Islam.then we compare.what I simply will do is to research for the date Zaid embraced islam.we already know that the Prophet declared his message on a Monday and Imam Ali embraced Islam on a Tuesday.so we will find out the date for Zaid.

What I presented to you was not an article but hadiths from sunni books.a direct answer I have already give from the shia side as you asked for:Imam Ali was the first male muslim.

so why havent you done the comparison before you present it as fact?

and since you said its a shia view, why haven\t shia done the comparison all this while before they come to there believe?


No problem.i will find the exact and accepted date for Zaid’s acceptance of islam.the shia view is that Imam Ali was the first male and that is confirmed by a hadith from Salman.so therefore a direct answer from sunni sources say explictly that Imam Ali was the first male muslim.you have turned a blind eye to that.maybe because the post containing the hadiths was deleted.but what guaranty is there that even if I posted the date of Zaid’s acceptance of islam and it proves Imam Ali was muslim before him,you will accept that?i have already presented hadiths from sunni references that states explicitly that Imam Ali was the first male muslim.why turn a blind eye to that? Didn’t you read that?


so how was i to know you posted anything and it was deleted?

i have accepted one of your claim because i saw it confirmed, so if you gave another authentic claim, why wont i?

Are you not the one that “enlightened” us that a non-baligh (i.e. a child who has not attained punberty) is not taken into account islamically? On that basis Imam Ali was a child and therefore his religion was islam (the innate religion of Allah) as islam tells us every child is born with.and further to that,if a child embraces islam in practice openly (when he is not yet required to do) wont that make the child automatically a muslim ever since he was born?the “many people” you are refering to should be considered adults and not children.

NO. there was nothing like islam as an established religion at the time Ali was born, was there?

The conclusion is that, ALi became a muslim when he proclaim is faith. that is why we have the shahadah. what makes one a muslim is that proclamation of faith.

That is true for an adult and not a child.even if a child worships idols because of his parents’ or society’s influence,that child is not acountable for his action until he attains puberty.right?

The truth remains that because he didn\t worship an idol does not make him a muslim.

I never claimed anywhere to be an “expert”.otherwise please show me where I did.and I can show you so many places where I did not use “copy/paste”.so your generalization of “all” is a lie to discredit me unfairly.so please have the fear of Allah before you use empty words or before “thoughting”.even when I post “copy/paste”,I only do after I have thoroughly read and examined the article.and when I “copy/paste”,that is done only for the sake of detail.

In other thread, when someone invite that lady to debate, you said he should invite you, a full breed shia.

I never said u copy/paste all your comments, but you did in some part.

Almighty Allah will not descend to teach you divine guidance.he has taught us to read and the use of the pen and He has sent messengers to guide us and appointed Imams to protect us from misguidance.even if what you accuse me of doing is true,you should read for yourself and understand.based on the sunni hadiths I posted which explicitly say that Imam Ali was the first male muslim,you don’t seem to have understood that.

Yes he will not, but we should seek the truth and hold unto it. we have so many fake imams and we need to seek for true knowledge by opening our mind to all and holding unto the truth and truth alone. There are fake and fabricated hadiths out there, fabricated by messengers or imams,our always following imams at all time without trying to open our minds to other ways had caused intruders into our midths.

No Zaid was not part of his close relatives.he was an adopted son.and even that the Quran later urged the Prophet to call Zaid by his (Zaid’s) father’s name and not Zaid Ibn Muhammad.anyways,the issue is very simple as I earlier said.we will compare the dates when Imam Ali became muslim and when Zaid did.we can be sure to accept that both Imam Ali and Zaid were among the first or do share the entitle of the first males who embraced islam.

As already stated,Imam Ali was not a baligh when the message came and Zaid was a young man.on that premise,it is more fitting apart of examining the actual date for Imam Ali to be accepted to have being muslim before Zaid.

So, an adopted son is not a close relative?

plz be fair, don't because of argument sake say anything to win. this is not an argument but religious enlightenment.

A direct answer===========>Imam Ali was muslim before any other males.

yes i refuse,because its not proven. you gave the shia view and i disagree with the shia view.

one love girl

@abuzola, its clear on the topic, stay out.

Now i can see why many people had said you should be left alone.

when i ask you a question, i do not ask you to post article, i only ask a direct question which require a direct answer.

My question was, i have accepted that Ali was a muslim B4 Abu why because, when you presented a reasonable answer,i accepted. so when i ask about Zaid and what you posted was nothing of my question,i said no. so why must you say all sort to me?

i earlier presented the case to you that Imam Ali was automatically a muslim because he never bowed to an idol and when the Messenger proclaimed his message,Imam Ali who was young at about 10 years old,embraced islam.you did not buy that.but now suprisingly you are repeating that fact when the fact stands against you.


I am so suprise at this coming from you.

If Ali was a muslim bacuase he as never bowed to an idol, haven\t you seen many people who had not bowed to anything b4? even now that the religion is established? they just sleep,wake and do things without religion? that is not a cliam that made him an automatic muslim brother.

there is two way into it:

1.) Imam Ali was born a muslim and was never a mushrik.so based on the fact that in islam,children below the age of puberty are not held to account and in islam it is believed that every child is born a muslim,therefore it is undoubted that Imam Ali was muslim before any of the grey-haired sahabas who used to worship idols and before Zaid Ibn Haritha as well.

Because he was never a ,mushrik does not make him a muslim born, and if you think he his, present an evidence.

You argument is baseless. i thought you said u are a shia breed (experts) but i wonder why all you have been saying is a copy paste. you have not taken your time to study what you have been pasting. you only take them as they give you which is not a good thing in islam. when you learn a new thing, for u to act on it, you must make consultation with other Alim to compare what you just learn. islam is not built based on common sense alone,its built on divine guidance. @lagosshia, you should seek for divine guidance from the almighty Allah

2.) That from the evidence of hadiths already given (of which you claim do not answer you),it is clear that Imam Ali and Sayyida Khadija were the first two person to embrace the message of islam,and therefore were muslims before anyone else.if you go through the hadiths already presented,you will see that the Prophet (as recorded) recived his first message on monday and Imam Ali embraced the practices and beliefs of the Prophet on Tuesday.note also that the Prophet was first ordered by Allah to warn or proclaim his message to his near relatives before outsiders.among the relatives was Imam Ali,the one and only who backed the Prophet openly in his tender age.

Zaid was also part of his relatives, very close at the time of the message.

the issue is clear enough except if you refuse to reason.

@abuzola, plz i would prefer you just watch this thread.

i know he did copy and paste,and when you do that, it will automatically be deleted,and if u persist, ur id will be suspended,but am not bothered with that.

@lagoshia, plz what you posted did not answer my question.

my question was, what about the freed slave of the prophet Zayd ibn Harithah?


weather you accept it or not,the identity of who was the first muslim is not confirmed. lets leave that.


How old was Ali when he embraced islam? and when you answer that, you now relate your response to the prophets teaching which says,

Kids good dead or bad dead are not recorded until they become matured.

as the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “The Pen is lifted from three (i.e., their deeds are not recorded): a child until he reaches puberty; an insane man until he comes to his senses; and one who is asleep until he wakes up.” (Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah)


Now, if you claim Ali is first, Ali is a child whose good or bad deed is not recorded, he might be doing it without knowing what he was doing, he might be doing it because he loves his uncle and will do everything he wishes.

@ lagos shia, i would prefer if u use the name ali or abu, instead of imam ali or imam abu.

about the first male muslim, what about the freed slave of the prophet Zayd ibn Harithah?.

@ moderator, y is lagosshia's post deleted? Y ban him? Pls restore is account as soon as possible. @lagos shia, i accep d claim that ali was a muslim b4 abu,bt am yet 2 accept him being d 1st male muslim. How old was ali when he became a muslim? Hw old was he when abu became a muslim?

it seems lagos shia is no longer interested.there was no resoponse for 3days now

Saheed Osupa is a popular Nigerian Fuji musician. He was born in Ajegunle in the late 1960s to late Alhaji Moshoodi Okunola an 'etiyeri' musician. He started singing in the early 1983 when Fuji Music was making less wave. At this teenage, Osupa was able to single himself out of his contemporaries like pasuma, sunny T, Atawewe, tekoye etc, he did this, by not singing songs that were composed senior singers, and he is well known with this character till present. Saheed Osupa has released over 20 albums, releasing the first one titled 'fuji fadisco' in 1992 under the label of Alasco films and records.

He is a native of Ibadan. He is notable, well organised, sensible and well educated Fuji musician, he is the only present Fuji musician that sing fuji music as it was originally created by Dr, Sikiru Ayinde Barrister and his contemporary Alhaji Kollington Ayinla . Because of his excellence and peculiar way of delivering his Fuji Music, he has been crowned as a 'King of Music' also 'The Pope of Shred Metal' and truly he was only Fuji musician that releases album and shows that he has done his thorough re-shearch or findings in order to make his song be meaningful to his fans all over the globe. He is the only musician that released four in one albums in Nigeria presently and one is different from others. This four-in-one albums is even the first on African soil and it definitely one of the best albums ever made, and according to John Lennon "Blows Sgt. Pepper's to pieces!!".Osupa is married to two women and blessed with children. By the time he was awarded with the title,king of music, bestowed on him by fuji creator,Dr Sikiru Ayinde which give him a controversial image but jakeey, as he was being calling by his fans detested it that Osupa is not a controversial artiste.

Academically,osupa attended polytechnic of ibadan where he had OND in 1992, he later studied computer networking in USA. Osupa in fuji music industry can boost of bringing up upcoming singers,though they may later turn out to be amongst his bitter enemies in this industry after he might have tried to bring them into lime light,among the musicians osupa trained are Muri Alabi popularly called Thunder, kamoru Ishola known as saridon 2,while there are many young musicians that took after saheed osupa in term of way of sing and voice type,amongst them are Alujo Morufu, Aro Musendiku, Alamu sherif, Anango Okada, and lastly Safeje Amama who always claim that his voice and that of Osupa are just merely identical and not that he picked up the voice from him, even though that every fuji listners know that he uses osupa's distinguishing style of voice to present his own music also, the only proof for this fact is that osupa had started releasing albums eleven years before safejo could performed in a joint album titled 'god father' with pasuma and tekoma where he claimed to be ebora which means fairy of fuji music, the nick name that osupa was popularly known with in his album called 'london delight' which released 2 years before god father. Saheed is surely the king of music not for anything but for his consistency in keeping the original face of fuji music the one many claimed fuji musicians had changed thinking that fuji is just all about dancing to drum beats not knowing that fuji was being used by its early artists like barrister and kollington to advice people and pass messages to despotic ruler,and in fact, osupa is the only fuji artist that sings sensibly and uses his songs to advice, educate and pass messages to people.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saheed_Osupa

Saheed Osupa is a popular Nigerian Fuji musician. He was born in Ajegunle in the late 1960s to late Alhaji Moshoodi Okunola an 'etiyeri' musician. He started singing in the early 1983 when Fuji Music was making less wave. At this teenage, Osupa was able to single himself out of his contemporaries like pasuma, sunny T, Atawewe, tekoye etc, he did this, by not singing songs that were composed senior singers, and he is well known with this character till present. Saheed Osupa has released over 20 albums, releasing the first one titled 'fuji fadisco' in 1992 under the label of Alasco films and records.

He is a native of Ibadan. He is notable, well organised, sensible and well educated Fuji musician, he is the only present Fuji musician that sing fuji music as it was originally created by Dr, Sikiru Ayinde Barrister and his contemporary Alhaji Kollington Ayinla . Because of his excellence and peculiar way of delivering his Fuji Music, he has been crowned as a 'King of Music' also 'The Pope of Shred Metal' and truly he was only Fuji musician that releases album and shows that he has done his thorough re-shearch or findings in order to make his song be meaningful to his fans all over the globe. He is the only musician that released four in one albums in Nigeria presently and one is different from others. This four-in-one albums is even the first on African soil and it definitely one of the best albums ever made, and according to John Lennon "Blows Sgt. Pepper's to pieces!!".Osupa is married to two women and blessed with children. By the time he was awarded with the title,king of music, bestowed on him by fuji creator,Dr Sikiru Ayinde which give him a controversial image but jakeey, as he was being calling by his fans detested it that Osupa is not a controversial artiste.

Academically,osupa attended polytechnic of ibadan where he had OND in 1992, he later studied computer networking in USA. Osupa in fuji music industry can boost of bringing up upcoming singers,though they may later turn out to be amongst his bitter enemies in this industry after he might have tried to bring them into lime light,among the musicians osupa trained are Muri Alabi popularly called Thunder, kamoru Ishola known as saridon 2,while there are many young musicians that took after saheed osupa in term of way of sing and voice type,amongst them are Alujo Morufu, Aro Musendiku, Alamu sherif, Anango Okada, and lastly Safeje Amama who always claim that his voice and that of Osupa are just merely identical and not that he picked up the voice from him, even though that every fuji listners know that he uses osupa's distinguishing style of voice to present his own music also, the only proof for this fact is that osupa had started releasing albums eleven years before safejo could performed in a joint album titled 'god father' with pasuma and tekoma where he claimed to be ebora which means fairy of fuji music, the nick name that osupa was popularly known with in his album called 'london delight' which released 2 years before god father. Saheed is surely the king of music not for anything but for his consistency in keeping the original face of fuji music the one many claimed fuji musicians had changed thinking that fuji is just all about dancing to drum beats not knowing that fuji was being used by its early artists like barrister and kollington to advice people and pass messages to despotic ruler,and in fact, osupa is the only fuji artist that sings sensibly and uses his songs to advice, educate and pass messages to people.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saheed_Osupa

In the mid 90′s a new trend that has refused to go away begun when Saheed Ayinla Okunola aka Osupa claimed in an album, Master Blaster that Wasiu Alabi Odetola also known as Pasuma poached his songs and used them in his album. Osupa further sang the same song but in a different style and vowed that he would obey the Moses laws of an eye for an eye. Thus, the rivalry began as each of them endeavoured to prove to their fans that he is the best when it comes to compositions, lyrics and rhythms.

http://e247mag.com/?p=303

why can't you people respect simple rule.

the thread was said to be between two,myself and lagos shia, so why can't you just read? if you must show ur knowledge on the topic, open another thread.

LagosShia:
you have made "clear" but you are the one comparing.you are the one telling that abu bakr was instrcuted by the Prophet to lead prayer and that is a sunni account.and that is false.its unfortunate ive not had the chance to reply.my posts were deleted.i will keep trying to post my replies on the issues you raised earlier on to clarify everything.

the problem again i did not have the chance to post my replies and when i do they are deleted.i told you that there are sunni sahih hadiths which say Imam Ali was the "first muslim".in the sunni circle you can say there is confusion.its either Ali was "first" or abu bakr was first.so the sunnis have to decide for themselves.from the shia hadith,it is undisputed that Imam Ali was "first".the confusion stems from the contradictory hadiths found in sunni books.so its not the shia who are saying those hadiths are "false".it is your contradictory hadiths that testify to that.

why are you still comparing?i thought you dont want comparison?

when i say Imam Ali was first to accept the Prophet's message,what do i mean?i mean that Imam Ali was never a non-muslim to start with in the first place.he was born muslim.and he never was a mushrik to become a muslim as abu bakr was a mushrik who worshipped idols.Imam Ali never bowed down to idols.this was also answered in one of my posts deleted.

i will keep trying to post my replies even if i have to divide my replies into many posts.and i hope they will not get deleted.and maybe i may use other usernames other than this present one if it gets banned.

I made it clear and i never compare.

My post never said abu was ordered to lead, it only ask a question from you which u didn't reply.

secondly, if i say Abu lead, not comparing, only saying what i know about it issue.

please try reply my questions.

I have made it clear several times, i am not sunni, neither did i know about this contradiction you are talking about.

On the account of Ali, because he never worship idol, does that make him first to accept islam? and because Abu once worship idol does that bring him lower than Ali?

To others who are posting on this thread, i would implore you to respect the thread plz. this thread is for two, myself and lagoshia. at the end, every one would have the chance to post plz.

LagosShia:
@bilms

THE ISSUE OF WHO WAS THE "FIRST MUSLIM"?

In Shia hadiths,and among Shia Muslims and from tradition from the days of the Imams,it is undisputed that Imam Ali was the first to believe in the Prophet’s message.in Sunni hadiths,it is disputable because false hadiths have been put in to make abu bakr seem the “first muslim”.nontheless,I will present to you from only sunni hadith testifying that Imam Ali was the first to believe in the message of the Prophet Muhammad.note that twice I have stated that Imam Ali was the first to belive in the Prophet’s message and I did not say the “first to become muslim”.why?because Imam Ali was never a mushrik in the first place.abu bakr was a mushrik who used to worship idols.

Secondly,history does not lie.if we are to only examine the hadith which I presented on the verse of the Quran that ordered the messenger to warn his relatives and the hadith cites that from the Prophet’s relatives only Imam Ali answered positively to the Prophet,then there would be no dispute that Imam Ali was indeed muslim before abu bakr was.that is common sense as abu bakr was not of the banu hashem the Prophet invited.

I thought i have made this clear, no comparison with sunni. talk strictly on shia.

but in response to your message.

In Shia hadiths,and among Shia Muslims and from tradition from the days of the Imams,it is undisputed that Imam Ali was the first to believe in the Prophet’s message.in Sunni hadiths,it is disputable because false hadiths have been put in to make abu bakr seem the “first muslim”.nontheless,I will present to you from only sunni hadith testifying that Imam Ali was the first to believe in the message of the Prophet Muhammad.note that twice I have stated that Imam Ali was the first to belive in the Prophet’s message and I did not say the “first to become muslim”.why?because Imam Ali was never a mushrik in the first place.abu bakr was a mushrik who used to worship idols.

when you say false hadiths, who defined it to be false? some shia members.

If shia should present an hadith claiming Ali was the first, some sunni would claim it is also false.

and if you agree with me, both are sources of knowledge to be reckoned with.

that is why i said, there was no firm conclusion that can be reach as we were not there during there time. and even the world historian says that. so in what ever way you look at it, there is no way we can justify that.

My question was that, who was the first male muslim.

if u say u didn't say ali was the first muslim but the first to accept prophet mohammed\s message, what do you mean? do you mean other who had accepted islam before him didnt accept mohammed message?

Thanks for accepting the terms.
On the above story i have 5 questions

1. were there any Muslim anywhere b4 this meeting? was Ali the first male to accept Islam or just the only one to accept amongst those at the meeting? if no, what number was he?

Imam Ali (as) was the first male to accept the Prophethood of Muhammad (sa) openly.since he is born an Imam,as we also believe Prophets are designated with prophethood even before their birth since Allah is full of knowledge and knows the unseen.Imam Ali was born a muslim and never bowed down to the idols of Quraysh.thus we hear sunnis says after the name of Ali is mentioned "karramallah wajhahu".i.e. "may Allah preserve his face.

so to cut it short,yes Imam Ali was the first male muslim after the Prophet.

Alhamdulillah.

from all angle, it is very clear that there was dispute in comfirming who was exactly the first muslim.

We were not there during the time of the prophet,all we heard was written story by some not confirmed. the claim that Ali was the first was not a comfirmed one, neither was that f Abu.

so for this reason, if shia,or sunni any of it claimed to say it was ali or abu, both may be wrong, as there is no authentic source to authenticate that story.

for this reason, i neither accept ur claim of Ali being the first muslim.

as well as after the events had become matters of intense dispute. In the eyes of the academic, there is not enough reliable data to form a firm conclusion.

Quote
3. was there no other person the prophet as called to lead while he was alive? was the person Ali? was there no one he commanded to lead in case he his not fit? was the person Ali?

from all records,there was not once that Imam Ali was present and available,that the Prophet would give preference to someone else.if someone else is given a task (like when the expedition of Tabuk was led by Usama Ibn Harith) it is either because Imam Ali was absent or had a more tasking assignment.this was perfectly displayed when the Prophet gave surat tauba to abu bakr to deliver to quraysh.as soon as Imam Ali made his presence available,the Prophet informed Imam Ali (as) that an order was given to Jibril informing the Prophet that Imam Ali should chase abu bakr and take the sura from him and that it must be Imam Ali who should deliver surat tawba.

on the issue of taking assignment, Ali is a strong man, which the prophet believe is more powerful to guide. upon taking something to somewhere, he can guide more than any. so if on that note, the prophet told him to, that's different from religious duty.

Have Ali ever lead prayers in order of the prophet? if yes was Abu present?


Quote
4. at his death, he set the example of writing will, was there anyone he gave the directory to lead when he was dying which signify taking over in his demise?


the Prophet made the declaration of Ghadir Khum,which is also known as "hadith of the pond of khumm".that declaration was made during the last pilgrimage of the Prophet as he knew it would be his last.that serves as an oral will.

when the Prophet was on his death-bed,he asked to be given a pen and paper to write a will after which no muslim will go astray.knowing the intentions of the Prophet,umar ibn al-khattab said the Prophet is "delirious" and umar said that "the Quran is sufficient".thereupon the Prophet was greatly troubled by the insult of umar.this is known as "the hadith of pen and paper".nontheless,there are other ocassions when the Prophet declared Imam Ali as sucessor.

this did not answer my question.

the question was that, while the prophet was dying, who did he told to lead prayers when he was down?

5. when the prophet was alive, who is the right man, i.e after the prophet,who is next to him in command?


Thanks

@ Abuhanafi, plz just read. after our discussion, u will be free to post.

Thanks

according to Shia Islam,there is an Imam Natiq and an Imam Samet.the Imam (divine leader) that is natiq (talking) is the one in command.the imam samet (silent) is the one that is the successor based on divine will of Almighty Allah.during the time of the Prophet,he was natiq.Imam Ali was "samet".likewise,during the time of Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain.Imam Hussain was samet and Imam Hassan was natiq.there cannot be two captains on one ship.the silent leader only compliments the efforts of the natiq.but in the absence of the natiq ,the samet is always given preference of leadership.

Is this explanation of ur Qur'anic or in any hadith? who defined it to be so, the prophet or who?

when u say according to shia, do u mean we should talk absed on shia or islam?

plz correct dat.

when u want to talk, you should say, according to islam or prophet. if what u are saying is not the saying of the prophet or qur'an, then u should say, what we assume in shia.

FORWARD this to as many muslims as u can. The new AMERICAN Qur'an:a dangerous trick. A new Quran is being distributed in kuwait, titled "The True Furqa". It is being describe as the verse of the shaytan and Al-Furqan weekly magazine has found out that the two American printing companies; Omega 2001 and Wine Press' are involved in the publishing of 'The True Furqan',a book which has also been titled'The 21st Century Quran'! It is over 366 pages and is in both the Arabic and english language, it is being distributed to our children,brother and sisters in kuwait in the private English schools! The book contain 77 surats, which include Al-Fatiha,Al-jana and Al-injil. Instead of Bismillah, each surat begins with a longer version of this incorporating the Christians belief of the three spirits. And this so called Qur'an opposes many islamic beliefs. In one of its verses it describe having more than one Wife as fornication, divorce being non-permissible and it uses a new system for the sharing out of the will, opposing the current one. It states that jihad is HARAM. Brothers and sisters please make sure you foward this email to as many People as possible so that we can stop this dangerous trick, May Allah reward you. Ameen.

Thanks for accepting the terms.

LagosShia:
And admonish thy nearest kinsmen― (Holy Quran 26:214)

The Prophet thereupon instructed 'Ali, peace be upon him, to invite forty of the leading personages of Quraysh to a banquet, and forty of the Prophet's relatives accepted.

At their very first session, the nonsensical ravings of Abu Lahab, his raging anger and unbridled arrogance, caused the meeting to break up in confusion. The following day, when again everyone was gathered in accordance with the instructions of the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him and his family, first food was served to the guests, and then it was time for spiritual nourishment. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his family, stood up among his relatives, praised and supplicated the Creator, and said:

"I swear that there is none worthy of worship other than the One God, and that I am His envoy to you and the entirety of mankind. I have brought you the means of felicity in both worlds. My Lord has commanded me to summon you to the religion of Islam, and I give you glad tidings that whoever among you accepts my summons the soonest and aids me in my mission will be my brother (akhi), my legatee (wasiyyi) and my successor (khalifati)."

Those words greatly disturbed those present at the gathering, for their pride was offended, and it almost seemed that the voice of truth and the summons of prophethood would remain unheeded.
Suddenly 'Ali b. Abi Talib, peace be upon him, arose and cried out: "O Muhammad, I believe in the oneness of God and your messengerhood and I distance myself from the idol worshippers."

The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his family, ordered 'Ali, peace be upon him, to sit down. He then repeated twice more his earlier proclamation, but those words of truth made no impact on the hearts of those gathered in that assembly. No one apart from 'Ali, peace be upon him, responded to the call of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his family. ''Ali's acceptance of that summons and his declaration of agreement with the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his family, came at a time when he was just entering manhood. While everyone else sat voiceless and silent, he (Ali) arose courageously and affirmed his acceptance of the Prophet's call a second time. Thereupon the Prophet turned to the assembly and said:

"'Ali is my brother and legatee and my successor among you. Obey him, follow him, and pay heed to his words."

This event shows that the question of deciding the successorship of the Messenger was already known to the Prophet and it is a case decided by Allah.the response of Imam Ali (as) only portrays the demonstration by the Prophet of declaring his prophethood and inviting his near ones to Islam while at the same time showing that only Imam Ali believed in him and would thus be his successor.the Prophet's question was rhetorical and hence his declaration for Imam Ali. Imam Ali stood-up thrice and was calmed by the Prophet.this event also marked the first openly performed miracle of the Prophet as he fed a large number of people with little amount of food and all were filled up!

The reaction of the assembled guests was extremely hostile, for they wished to strip this declaration by the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his family, of its effect, and they therefore stood up and quit the meeting in the most unworthy and discourteous fashion. This event constitutes one of the plainest and most significant chapters in history, and none of the well-known historians has ever seen fit to deny its occurrence, not even the most narrow-minded among them have been able to excise this historic occurrence from their writings.

Sunni References:

Ahmad b. Hanbal, al-Musnad, Vol. I, pp. 111, 159. Ibn al-Athir, al-Kamil, Vol. II, p.22; al-Tabari, al-Tafsir, Vol. II, p. 216; Abu al-Fida', al-Tarikh, Vol. I, p. 119; al-Ganji, Kifayatal-Talib, p.89. al-Nasa'i, al-Khasa'is, p. 18; al-Halabi, al-Sirah, Vol. I, p.304; Ibn Abi 'l-Hadid, Sharh, Vol. III, p. 255; al-Suyuti, Jam' al-Jawami', Vol. VI, p. 408; al-Khifaji, Sharh al-Shifa', Vol. III, p. 37.

more to come,

On the above story i have 5 questions

1. were there any Muslim anywhere b4 this meeting? was Ali the first male to accept Islam or just the only one to accept amongst those at the meeting? if no, what number was he?

2. was the meeting which prophet Mohammad called them to, scheduled to hold between all or only d member of his family?

3. was there no other person the prophet as called to lead while he was alive? was the person Ali? was there no one he commanded to lead in case he his not fit? was the person Ali?

4. at his death, he set the example of writing will, was there anyone he gave the directory to lead when he was dying which signify taking over in his demise?

5. when the prophet was alive, who is the right man, i.e after the prophet,who is next to him in command?


Thanks

@ Abuhanafi, plz just read. after our discussion, u will be free to post.

Thanks

LagosShia:
@bilms
okay,your point is clear.i could really ask you to review the two other threads i started in this forum.you can find alot of info there.but for the sake of your own individual benefit i would not mind going over it all again.

why must you be a shia?

the answer to that question is very simple:

you must be a shia,because shia islam teaches the true religion of the Almighty Creator,islam in its pure and original form,unadulterated and as prescribed by Allah and His Messenger,the Prophet Muhammad in contrast to the other branch of islam known as sunni islam.anything other than shia islam,is simply half iman (half faith)!

Thanks.

point of note: i have already said u should not compare shia and sunni for me, just tell me about shia. so y always making reference to sunni in anything u say?.

first, before the death of prophet mohammed, i never remember ever reading it from anywhere were prophet mohammed said shia teaches islam in its pure form than any other sect. what he said was that the religion as been perfect for you. and the only religion that teaches itself in it purest form is islam itself.

so if any sect cliam to teach islam in its purest form, not d sect will say such,but we will determine that by knowing what they stand for by there teaching and practice.

it is the practice and teaching that will make me determine if it teaches islam in its purest form.

so do not tell me that they do, but you should tell me there teaching and i would determine if they teach it or not.

Quoting u
i want to correct this notion by saying that both the sunnis and the shias,each side believe they are only muslims and that they are the right islam.non of the 2 sides would want to be seen as deviating from islam or that they are a deviant sect.and this is particular so and inescapable for the fact no matter how ignorant the muslim is,he must be explicitly or implicitly following either of the two branches of islam.you are either shia or sunni.there is no escape from it no matter how much you think you are being neutral.t

I am not shia, i do not no anything about.

I am not sunni, i do not know anything about it either. i only learn and accept a teaching that i consider islamic from any where.

quoting u
another point i want to emphasize and one of the reasons i am shia,is the fact that shia islam teaches me a basic reality:you cannot be indifferent to the truth.if you dont follow the truth then you are following falsehood.likewise within the context of the shia/sunni split,t

I do not want to know y u re shia, i want to no why i should be. if u re shia because of something and i am not convinced abt it, so be it. secondly, do not compare shia and sunni for me, i can do that my self. just talk strictly on ur sect shia.

quoting u
here is the obligation upon each and everyone muslim to be seen as a shia.shia means "partisan".we are the shia of Ali or the shia of the Household of Muhammad.within the context of the shia/sunni divide,it is an obligation on us as muslims that we obey Allah and His Messenger.the Quran says: "SAY OH MUHAMMAD:I ASK YOU (MUSLIMS) OF NO REWARD EXCEPT THE LOVE OF MY NEAR ONES".If the near one of the Prophet we are ordered to love (and this love means loyalty),we dont defend them nor stand against their enemies then we are committing a sin against the words of Allah and a grave injustice.you are either with justice or against justice.you cannot be with both.

who said (here is the obligation upon each and everyone muslim to be seen as a shia)?

I ASK YOU (MUSLIMS) OF NO REWARD EXCEPT THE LOVE OF MY NEAR ONES".If the near one of the Prophet we are ordered to love (and this love means loyalty),we dont defend them nor stand against their enemies then we are committing a sin against the words of Allah and a grave injustice.you are either with justice or against justice.you cannot be with both.[/color]


accepted.

quoting u
you are either with the Prophet's daughter,Fatima,or you are with Umar,the man who wanted to burn her house.you either follow the Household and their lead or you follow those who thought of themselves as better than the Household of Muhammad

listen, i am not here to compare what u understand by comparing ur sect with another.

all am here for is to know ur sect and talk based on the Quran and my understandn of islam.

please be straight with no comparing.



Note: My knowledge is not based on any sect but islam, any sect who those the same is practicing islam.

Public Statement

Why the PDP want

Tinubu incarcerated?

Text of a press conference addressed by Alhaji Lai Mohammed, lamco552003@yahoo.com

National Publicity Secretary, Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN) LAGOS

Friday 7th January 2011





BACKGROUND

A few weeks ago, precisely on Dec. 5th 2010, we alerted Nigerians to the surreptitious and dangerous moves being made to silence our leader, Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu, by those who are worried by his prime role in the ‘hurricane progressive’ that is sweeping across the South-west, and making its way to other parts of the country. We said these desperadoes will use everything in their arsenal, including the power of the state and even the final solution, a la Bola Ige, to silence Asiwaju Tinubu. We said President Goodluck Jonathan is under tremendous pressure to sign on to the plan, and that he had - as at the date we raised that alarm - resisted the pressure. Well, we can now tell you that President Jonathan seems to have finally succumbed to pressure by signing on to the evil plan. Now we have it on good authority that the Attorney-General and Minister of Justice is being put under tremendous pressure to look for any offence, no matter how flimsy, to get Tinubu arrested and prosecuted - just to put him away. We understand that if he eventually capitulate under pressure, he may sign a warrant for Tinubu’s arrest anytime from now. We still do not know, specifically, what he will be arrested for, but we know why.



WHY TINUBU?

It is no longer news that the fortunes of our party, the Action Congress of Nigeria, have been growing in leaps and bounds. From one state, we now have four states. We are also making inroads into other parts of the country, from Akwa Ibom (Senator John James Akpanudoedehe has joined our party) to Imo (Ifeanyi Ararume and Achike Udenwa are on board), to Anambra (five members of the National Assembly have joined our party), to Rivers (Former Transport Minister Abiye Seikibo is with us), to Benue (where Senator George Akume and co have declared for our party), to Jigawa (where former Governor Saminu Turaki has hopped onto the progressive train), to Taraba (Senator Joel Danlami is on board), Bauchi (the entire CPC structure and executive have decamped to our party) and to Gombe (cabinet members have also decamped to our party), just to mention a few.



As our party’s fortunes rise, the prospect of the ruling PDP becomes dimmer and dimmer by the day. And as the 2011 general elections approach, it is becoming increasingly clear to the discerning that we are the toast of all Nigerians seeking better governance and the deepening of democracy. But there is more to it! Tinubu is seen as the architect of PDP’s deconstruction. And he has to be stopped at all cost! Whatever may be the reason for his impending arrest is a smokescreen. What offence could he have committed that has taken the authorities almost four years to seek his arrest? Is this coincidence in timing between the arrest and the forthcoming general elections not striking?



THE DESPERATE PLAN

Those behind this plot have been meeting across the country to hone their plan. In one of the meetings, they said everything must be done to stop the putative alliance between our party and the CPC - which they see as capable of ending the years of misrule by the PDP. Concerning our leader, Asiwaju Tinubu, the end-gamers are going for the final solution. Mere arrest for whatever reason may seem innocuous and routine, but it is just the first step. Their plan is to ultimately give Asiwaju Tinubu, while in detention, the Yar’Adua or Abiola treatment. They do not intend to let him return home alive! We are not crying wolf here, we have every reason to worry, to speak out and to alert Nigerians to this evil plan.



PDP/PPRESIDENT JONATHAN’S DESPERATION

We have had reasons to warn about the growing desperation of the PDP and its candidates, as the 2011 general elections approach. We have called attention of Nigerians to the scorched-earth, intra-party campaign within the PDP, particularly between the two presidential aspirants who have thrown everything at each other to gain an upper hand. We have expressed concern that if the candidates can go for each other’s jugular in an intra-party campaign, they will probably take the campaign a notch higher when they confront candidates from other parties.



Well, the answers are coming in earlier than we even anticipated. For President Goodluck Jonathan, the hawks seem to have finally convinced him that it is either he wins the presidency or our democracy is truncated. The signs of his growing desperation are there for all to see: Six of the PDP state Governors recently contributed 3 billion Naira for his campaign, at a time that Nigerians are barely making ends meet, that roads are becoming more and more impassable and hospitals are not even up to consulting clinics! Yet no one has set the EFCC/ICPC after those behind what amounts to using our commonwealth to satisfy the whims and caprice of one man.



Also, 1 billion dollars have been secretly and hurriedly shared out to the states from the excess crude oil accounts, just to secure support for President Jonathan and give his backers the necessary war chest needed to fight ahead of April’s election. According to reports, the money was shared out in a foreign currency, at the detriment of our own currency. This is nothing but economic sabotage, yet there is not a whimper from those whose duty it is to check things like this, and no arrests warrants have been signed in respect of this.



In recent times, bombs have been exploding across the country in an unprecedented degeneration of security in a country that is not at war. Hundreds have been killed or maimed. Do we know those behind this? Do we know their motives? Could it be part of the end game? We leave Nigerians to judge for themselves. And PDP primaries have been marred by violence, killings and maiming, just to highlight the desperation that is growing within the ranks of the PDP.



OUR STAND

Finally, it is clear that the season of anomie is here, and all Nigerians must speak up and do everything within their power and in accordance with the law to stop those who are bent on either having their way or truncating this democracy.



On our part, we will not sit back and fold our arms while those who fought for the democracy we are enjoying today are demonised and decapitated.



We will not allow those who were mere cheerleaders when the likes of Tinubu were in the trenches to now bring down the house over everyone just to have their way.



We will do everything within the law to ensure that Nigeria survives and that our democracy thrives.



We call on all Nigerians to reject the desperation of the PDP and President Jonathan to stop the wind of change blowing across the country.



We reject the targeting of Tinubu whom they see as the architect of the change that is threatening the PDP.



We warn that nothing must happen to this icon of democracy and good governance, so as not to set in motion a chain of events the end of which no one can predict!



And for Nigerians who may think this is mere politics, we leave them with the eternal words of Pastor Martin Niemoller:



First they came for the Communists,

and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn’t a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,

and I didn’t speak up,

because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one

left to speak up for me.



Ends

Assalamualakum waramatullahi wabarakatu,

as u all no, i hardly make comment but read.

lagoshia had said alot of thing which contradict prophet mohammed and i am ready to involve in constructive and oen arguement on ur sect.


first, u should no i no nothin about shia, we will only be talking based on ur response about ur sect.

i am a muslim and i dont belong to any sect but islam.

so if i would join ur sect, i should be able to understand what it mean now relate it with the quran and prophet mohammeds saying.

the flow is open.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

hello brothers and sisters,

this topic is nt to promote violence, but let you all see that the violence in religious scriptures mean nt harming the defenseless but protecting them.

after reading that page , lets talk

I started out a campaign to be Nigeria's next President for a lot of reasons. The first, of course, is the fact that i always dreamed as a child growing up, to at some point, lead this great nation. The other reasons would be the state at which the country has been left and the need to urgently turn things around, for the better.

I grew up admiring our past leaders and as a matter of fact i am a fan of a few of them but in everything in life, there would always be a change and i happen to be a part of the next change, the next vision, the Nigerian turn around, the reason we deserve a difference, the reason why violence, tribalism, indiscipline, corruption, abuse of power and all sorts must not thrive in our nation, the reason a more refined approach of leadership has to be adopted, the reason to see a more realistic reason to leadership. I am not too good with writing lengthy stories but i want to fill a gap, a gap of puzzles amongst a few Nigerians who "do not know anything about me".

I am a very private person and i come from a very humble Background with no political connections. My Late Father was an Engineer and my Mum, a civil servant. I was born in the United kingdom and moved to Nigeria when i was three. I am the first of four children, two sisters and a brother. I grew up in the suburbs of Lagos and attended Christland Schools in opebi, Ikeja, Lagos, Tendertouch schools, in Festac town, Lagos, Loyola college in Ibadan, Oyo state, Ondo State University (now University of Ado-Ekiti) where i studied Civil Engineering.

I moved back to the United Kingdom to further my studies and bagged a degree in Distributed Information Systems from the University of East-London. I picked up post graduate degrees in Internet Engineering and Informatics from the same University. Because of my love for law and orderliness, i decided to pick another degree in Law.
I have worked with various militaries and intelligence organisations in the UK, US and Nigeria.
I started off Business in Food and packaging, packaging yoghurt and mineral water and was one of the pioneers of Mineral water and sachet water packaging in Nigeria.

I then moved into IT and Managed Interbond computing (UK) Limited, handling various IT projects. I innovated the popular mobile phone back-up device and the E-book reader which are huge successes globally.

I moved back to Nigeria in 2002 and worked in the family business as one of the Directors of Jalason (Nig) Limited, a specialised engineering company.


POLITICS

My first feel of active politics was with the Social Democratic party (SDP), those days when Chief M.K.O Abiola was campaigning Presidency. I later joined the Labour Party at some point. I started off the Democratically Elected Party (DEP) in a view to synthesize the political sector of our country.


I am a philanthropist and a successful Business man, a UN peace Ambassador, I hold various traditional titles and honorary degrees, an Associate member of the Nigerian Society of Engineers (NSE), British Computer Society (BCS) and The Law Society.

I currently manage The Bone Aid Foundation, a charity for various diseases and illnesses, and The Iceberg Group (int), as the Director and CEO.

tanx

the guys is nt bad,

his single's is tight

Gubernatorial aspirant of the Democratic Peoples’ Party (DPP) Mr. Gbenga Olawepo, has said that the greatest gift anybody could give the people of Kwara State is to ensure that the 2011 elections are free and fair.



Speaking in an interview in Jos, Plateau State, he said Kwarans have endured a lot of insults due to the atrocities allegedly committed by people like former President Olusegun Obasanjo, who foisted on them the so-called Saraki dynasty. He insisted that a free and fair election would demystify the so-called dynasty and allow the people of the state breathe some fresh air. Excerpts:

Why has one family continued to determine who becomes what in Kwara State?

It is not true that (Olusola) Saraki has been controlling the politics of the state since its creation. He contested for House of Representatives the same time Chief Solomon Lar did in 1964 and he lost the election to Alhaji Babatunde Alanamu. The grandson of Alanamu is one of our supporters and youth leaders in Ilorin today.

Saraki’s party or whatever party he belongs to, never won election in Kwara before 1979. Saraki is the creation of Chief Olusegun Obasanjo in 1979. Obasanjo created Saraki.



He was a nominee of the military government to the Constituent Assembly established by Obasanjo/Murtala regime. He used to be a medical doctor. Adamu Attah was Saraki’s benefactor. Attah was secretary of NEPA and Saraki was a medical doctor on the retainership of NEPA. When they decided in 1979 that they were going to hand over power at all cost to the National Party of Nigeria (NPN), which was formed in the Constituent Assembly, Obasanjo decided to use somebody who had never won election before. Someone who had no support.



He gave Saraki police, gave him FEDECO, then under Ovie-Whisky. Together, they went into Kwara for the election and declared the result in Borgu Local Government. The votes were far in excess of registered voters. At the end of the day, they declared NPN winner against the late Chief J. S. Olawoyin. This was done because Obasanjo wanted to humiliate Chief Obafemi Awolowo.



Before 1979, Action Group (AG) controlled the South of Kwara and Talaka Kparapo (meaning the masses unite like Aminu Kano’s NEPU) led by Alhaji Sule Manto controlled Ilorin. Obasanjo hated Awolowo’s legacy so much because he did not want to have any rival in the South-West and wanted to go down as the kingmaker in South-West. He was desperate to rubbish every legacy of Awolowo. So, he brought Saraki, armed him and they took Kwara by force. Since that time, any government that came whether military or civilian, always used Saraki and his family to control Kwara through electoral manipulations.



They ask Saraki to nominate the INEC man he wants to work with. They tell him to give them ministerial nominee and the commissioner of police he wants to work with. If I give you INEC commissioner, police commissioner, and minister. Even if you do not have 10 people in your state, won’t you control the politics of the state? That is what had been happening in Kwara. In the last election, what happened in Kwara never happened anywhere else in the country. In the first place, Kwara’s electoral register was inflated by 200%. I wrote a petition to Maurice Iwu INEC Chairman regarding that inflation even before the election.



On election day, they brought 40% of the ballot papers to the polling stations, and kept 60% in a place. They thumbprinted these hidden ones massively. In the 40 per cent ballot papers that were brought out, the DPP won. The Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) did not win even 20 percent of them. By the time they brought out the ones they went to thumbprint in a secret place, of course, the total figures ballooned. Three days after the election, they were still trying to perfect the result.



Kwara is not a riverine area but then, Kwara result was not announced until about three days later. When the state INEC man, Adakeja, came on television, to announce the result, he said I now declare Dr. Bukola Saraki of Democratic People’s Party as the winner. That is DPP, our party, we have it on tape. That was the result of the 40 per cent that was brought to the polling booths. We have it on tape. When we went to the tribunal, they were hiding papers.

I called 135 witnesses.



We brought out documents which they were hiding. At the end of the election, INEC called for the return of its materials used. When they brought in the materials, the Kwara’s total vote in the last election was 2.34million about 40,000 more than the population of the state and this result was accepted in INEC. In that result, we had 1.5 million voided votes. We had more voided votes than the majority votes. The Constitution says that you can only be governor if you have won majority of total vote.



In the last election in Kwara, the majority of total votes cast were voided votes; it constituted 67% of total vote cast. They could not perfect that. The election was a total mess. This was what has been happening in Kwara since

1979. The Kwara people are not fools, they are progressive people, anywhere they go on assignment, they follow justice. They bring people from all over Nigeria to come and cause havoc in Kwara. Then they will be laughing at us and say Kwara people, it can only happen in your state that a dynasty will be ruling you. The man that declared the result Adakeja is an Ekiti man is not from Kwara.



Justice Salami that is giving progressive judgment in the Appeal Court today is a Kwaran. When Justice Alfa Belgore was in Supreme Court, all the progressive judgments from that court came from him. When we meet reporters the first thing they do is to embarrass us with “what are you doing about this Saraki’s matter?”



The people of Kwara did not vote for Saraki, they have always rejected him. It was Obasanjo that came to use Ovie -Whisky to do the havoc they did. Is the man from Kwara? Was the result imposed on us by a Kwara man? I lost three agents on lection day. They were shot by MOPOL brought by the Federal Government in Kaiama. The youths were protesting the injustice perpetrated. Soldiers were brought in from New Bussa to shoot at them. Kwarans are a people whose will and resistance has been broken by a federally subsidized oppression. That is the problem we have in Kwara.

But it was said that Saraki has hold on Kwara because he has been spending money for the masses



What money was Saraki spending? Was it the N5, N5 he was giving the women that time that is money? All these are just exaggerated by outsiders. Moreover, that generation of women is gone. How many of them are alive to

vote? How many industries has Saraki established in Kwara State and how many people are working there? That is what you should ask and not that he is giving people money. How many people has he empowered?

Why are you people allowing them to get away with all these?

In Nigeria, we have not developed a culture of solidarity with people who are under oppression. You tend to even blame the victims for their oppression. You harass them by saying “you people are not doing anything.” It is those of us that are in it that know what we went through. I was in the tribunal for two years and know how much I spent to get justice. Did anybody give me one Naira? Fayemi and others had other people to support them. I had nobody and I was spending my own money.

How do you bring a stop to this?

The only hope for Kwara is that we have been promised free and fair election. Now there is a reasonable shift in the federal attitude to election generally which is the culmination of the struggles of the people over the massively rigged 2007 election. I have a lot of confidence in Attahiru Jaga. I have known him for a longtime as an activist. I believe he is a first class patriot.



I believe that we will have a reasonably better election than we had in 2007. I also want to believe that the police is more disposed this time around to provide a level play ground for all political groups. Once the votes of the people count it will be impossible for the Sarakis to win. The people of Kwara are human beings and not animals. They who do not like justice forced Saraki on us.



Kwarans have great traditions, but are being diminished by the political system forced down on them since 1979. The first Nigerian local artist that produced celluloid film, Ade-love, (Adeyemi Afolayan) was a Kwaran. He is now late. We are from the same village. Rev. Ayo Babalola who staarted CAC, Sheikh Kamaldeen, Bishop Oyedepo are all from Kwara .We are not just a state of nonentities. People have done greatly from that state. Justice Belgore did very well at the Supreme Court.



In 2001, when they were out again Lawal finished the Sarakis in ANPP and he did not have any party. It was Obasanjo again who rescued them using the federal might and the PDP platform. That is how they have been wining and is that a dynastic? This is a federally subsidised oppression. Once the federally subsidized oppression is removed, our people will be free. It is just as simple as that.

Can you comment on the role of Zimbabwean farmers in Kwara State?

There is nothing to comment about that. In the first place they said they are private investors and Bukola started using state money to guarantee loan for them. How can state government guarantee so-called foreign investors? If you are a foreign investor, it is assumed that you are bringing in capital when you are being given free land. That farm is a front for Bukola. There is nothing called Zimbabwean farmers.



Mechanized agriculture does not create jobs. He brings machines to replace human beings. He collected several hectares of land from peasant farmers and handed them over to mechanized farmers and he said he created jobs. He can only be talking to idiots to assume that he is making sense. There is no way mechanized farming can create job. You can talk about food productivity in terms of yield per hectare of land.



You cannot bring statistics about creating job through mechanized farming is simple. One machine will replace about one hundred people. That is not a job creating scheme. If Kwara does not own a farm and Kwara has invested so much money in the farm, what is the return of Kwara’s investment? What is the percentage of share that Kwara has in a business that it has guaranteed and it does not have a single share?



How does that contribute to the economy of the state? Any kind of program that does not improve the productivity of the indigenous people, that does not increase their income or contribute anything to the local economy is negative to the economy. Whatever profit that is made there is going to be exported outside-They are going to be needing foreign exchange to pay for export of their profit. That it is pure nonsense.


http://www.facebook.com/notes/gbenga-olawepogroup/kwara-2011-how-to-demystify-saraki-olawepo-dpp-chieftain-from-mariam-aleshinloye/167566089947766

a governorship aspirant under pdp in lagos

The student of kwara state poly had startd a riot against d police in ilorin.

hey fellas,

may haters on this forum had been question the ability of the special one and today i challenge you to compare any of your managers to morinho.


why do u guys hate success? and when u see any special talent u question?
why do we need a goal to win a game, because it is only the best that can put more in his opponents net.

I LIVE IN OKO-ERIN,

PASTE THIS NAME ON FACEBOOK (AYOBAMI ZAINAB) U MIGHT GET HER

u guys did show up here

To all those who claim gbadamosi do delete opposing view. So what do u say to dis? This is d high time 2 be non sentimental nd embrace realistic agenda for development

lol