₦airaland Forum

I am deeply sorry about your situation

I believe we can learn from this incident to forestall future occurence


- How did you get back into nigera if your passport was taken

- Also where in Joburg did you stay, the hotel name

- How did you meet the Taxi driver, was it from the hotel

The hotel may also be in on it


Once again, my condolences

worldtraveller: We just got back from Johannesburg, it was an awful experience. We were robbed at gunpoint by 4 South Africans, they had followed our taxi from the hotel. We believe the taxi driver was in on it as when we checked out from the hotel, he stopped at a petrol station to buy petrol - its likely he stopped at the petrol station so the robbers could tail us. 2 mins before we were intercepted by the robbers on the highway the driver took a phone call. All our belongings, cash, phones, passports, laptops, jewellery was taken. My friend had the gun pointed at him the entire time and he threatened to shoot us if we resisted. The worst thing out of all of this was when we got to the police station, the police told us we shouldn't report the crime since we were not South African and did not have a South African phone number. We waited hours before a statement was taken and even at that the policeman said he was doing us a favour by taking a statement.

so the feminist cause is all about road rage and people cussing out females...

I laugh in feminism

fellis: This is a far better way of presenting your anti feminist case than all the childish memes you and black kenichi are fond of posting.

Maybe you do but many men out there don't. I am tired of seeing women get dispected everyday because many men don't think they are sensible enough or capable enough to do anything meaningful.
In Nigeria for instance, many male drivers don't even bother to hide their disrespect for female drivers. A lot of the time when I'm on busy roads, I see them making different insultive comments to female drivers that have done done absolutely nothing wrong, they just see a woman in the driver's seat and assume that she doesn't know what she's doing. They start trying to overtake her or complain loudly, saying all women don't know how to drive.

The sexism issues are too many jare, I don't want to go into all of them. But the disrespect is what majorly irks me, men can be proud, they can have their ego but that doesn't mean they should be condescending to women.

v3: Hashi was able to tell that Orochimaru has senju parts in him without breaking a sweat and they (Hashi and Minato) are both Hokages, forget strength levels. Hashi's sensing abilities suck compared to Tobirama but it didn't take him time to figure it out.

My guess is; Obito gave himself over "completely" to Zetsu and i think Zetsu cannot be sensed by even the best sensory type ninjas.

This is a more logical statement than the half obito - half zetsu

@tayoccu

i will ask you the reverse,

how many people have used amateratsu- has tobi or madara used it
Also how come we have a unique technique called kamui which is only found in obito;s eyes

ladeski: flat track bully

got a taste of her own medicine

1000 Likes.....!!!

And it is sweet too,... azonto..

Frankly I am insulted that you classify me as a person who has no mind of his own

We were here when someone released a bulletin claimed the pics were photoshopped

Now john and love has confessed

So who lied on behalf on deeper life

What is this standard that john and love kumuyi deviated from

Afoskalex: it seems frosbel has indoctrinated you.So, that bible verse is applicable to DL that 'you shall be hated by men for my name sake...'.REPENT before the chance will be over.

Schooled!!

CAMEROONPRIDE: what you don't get is , it will never become a law or leading the household will never follow a specific regulation based on gender or whatever you want to call it. plenty women out there are leading their household , they just don't make noise and don't see it as an achievement. in fact women have been leading since inception . who decides what we eat, drink, buy, where the children go to school , who organizes parities, etc . what the husband even wears to go to his office? only insecure and unable women are begging to lead their households

CAMEROONPRIDE: you dont get it, do u? they don't care dude wage gap, gender gap , jobs blah blah they don't give a sh1t.
they want u to bear their names and let them b the head of the house.period that's 21st century feminism for you. all hail to the modern feminazi

I want them to come and out plainly with what they want

Hahaha

i dont know what this bizarre guy stands for

fellis: Go and sit down jor. I don't know why you are still making noise on this thread. Men like you are part of the reason women fight feminist wars. You don't believe in gender equality, you don't believe women should be allowed to head their homes, but you keep acting like you don't know sexist attitudes exist, you keep acting like all is good and dandy.

I am not making noise
You claim to speak for the females in nigeriaa and that they earn an unfair wage
I tell you the males earn the same as the females and have no social security, medical insurance and assess to justice just like the females and just like every citizen of this country under the jackboot of the civilian oppressors

if labour laws are humane and made better
Nigerias (BOTH MEN AND WOMEN) will benefit

Get it?

They committed no sin and should not have apologised

It seems Kumuyi has been held hostage by the hierachy or the 'monster' he helped create

Tragic... they still insist on THE STANDARD!

Myne White: Personally, I am of the opinion that Love Odih was very modestly dressed for a wedding occasion, and wish her and her husband only the very best of married life. I wrote the series of posts I did to help the conversation along online, hoping it would spark a similar conversation within the Deeper Life church about their heavily patriarchal stand on women's dressing, and how it could be affecting the morale of women and relationships in the church. When I listened to Pastor Kumuyi's video here on what is essential Christian principles and how traditions of men can be changed, I was heartened. But it seems even him can do nothing at this stage. The so-called church leaders have just made it clear by this 'apology' that they won't entertain any conversation.

http://www.romancemeetslife.com/2013/07/video-of-john-and-love-kumuyis-letter.html

Read the full text of the apology below -

---

June 22nd, 2013,
The Church Secretary,
Deeper Christain Life Ministry

LETTER OF APOLOGY

John and Love Kumuyi, write to express our deepest and most sincere apology for the turn of events, that have resulted on our traditional and wedding ceremonies, that took place in Jamaica on 13th June and 15th June, 2013 respectively.

We unreservedly and wholeheartedly state, that we did not intend that our acts or omissions will in any way undermine the great works that God has done through the Deeper Christian Life Ministry Worldwide and more specifically , through our Father in the Lord, the General Superintendent (GS).

We also use this medium to profusely and sincerely apologies to the general superintendent for the embarrassment and heartaches our actions have caused him, more so that he had earlier declined to be at the events.

We acknowledge that we may have been distracted by cultural differences, as both of us have been outside the country for the past two decades. This notwithstanding, we fully accept that having being nurtured, taught and brought up with the sound teaching of the word of God, we should have been able to draw the line, which we failed to do.

We have now realized the effects of our actions and omission and do plead with the church for forgiveness and also appealing that any action that should be taken be directed at John and Love, as we take this time to prayerfully reflect on our actions.

We take full responsibility for what happened, and this action should in no way be blamed on the GS, or the leaders of the church in Nigeria, United States, Jamaica or United Kingdom and beyond.

Yours Sincerely,

John and Love Kumuyi

so DLBC has vehement defenders of tradition and men's doctrine like this

Deeper life brethren used to pride themselves as the modern day men of Isaachar who searched the scriptures themselves

Now they lie that the wedding was photoshopped

Now the 'sinners' have confessed// why the initial lie about photoshop?

The fire has really waxed cold leaving a dark residue of ash and legalism

davidylan: Obviously you have no idea what the topic is anymore besides your need to "win" the argument. These have more to do with the utter failure of labor laws and the justice system in nigeria and nothing to do with feminism.

I hope she gets it one day

Obasanjo whipping up a policeman who vexed him is anti feminist and not oppression

Abacha arresting kokori is anti feminist and not repressiveness

SMH!!

davidylan: things like these happen only because you come from a country that cares nothing for you or your welfare.

And this is what I have been telling 99cent and her posse

Social justice is more important in that it raises the living standard of BOTH male and female
A lot of nigerians are not earning a living wage, no health insurance, slow dispensation of justice and oppressive leaders

BOTH MEN AND WOMEN suffer it

if it gets better for the Nigerian, the woman has a better life

Is that logic flawed or they cant just get it

99cent: I will imagine that if it were a white male, he would probably be paid EVEN higher salary than Okonjo Iweala herself.

Are yu fighting racism or gender gap

which is it

davidylan: to be honest, i earnestly await them so we can have a reasoned discourse on the issue. Obviously this issue is more about emotions and hot air with you and above your pay-grade.

Just an example... women like Okonjo-Iweala took up jobs in nigeria at wages far above what a male naija-based colleague would have been placed. Is that the discrimination you are talking about?

Can you respond to NOI earning more than a fellow black minister - male or female
Is that not anti feminist

Your icon?

davidylan: I provide several reasons why the average pay for an expatriate is higher in third world countries and the mid-east (even going so far as to provide examples where nigerians and blacks have been placed on the same hazard wages compared to local workers) and you ignored that in favor of repeating your baseless rants? Shakes head... obviously this isnt about reasoned dialogue for you.

Bravo!!

And 99cent I was sleeping you expectme to reply at 240am local time when I have work the next day

davidylan: It is not about "deserving" something or not... it is about facts beyond your control.

1. As a contract employee (which most foreign workers are), you have better leverage to negotiate a higher wage.
2. Hazard pay for being moved outside your country
3. Additional payments to make up for differences in standard of living (it happens here, i got payed for moving to a more expensive state than my colleagues hired at the same time... 3 of them were white by the way).

But of course i expect the next fact-free diatribe from you.

This response captures my POV exactly
In Nigeria, foreigners get a factor of their pay for working in a hazardous country like Nigeria

I have read this article

The question here is a black female being was intimidated by a white female

Is that feminism or racism

Or is wage gap now racism

99cent: this may be relevant although it applies to both gender and racial job discrimination:

June 24, 2013
Supreme Court Raises Bar to Prove Job Discrimination
By STEVEN GREENHOUSE

In two decisions issued on Monday, the Supreme Court effectively made it harder for workers to prove that they had suffered employment discrimination.

One ruling narrows the definition of what constitutes a supervisor in racial and sexual harassment cases, while the other adopts a tougher standard for workers to prove that they had faced illegal retaliation for complaining about employment discrimination.

In both cases, the rulings were decided by a 5-to-4 majority, with the dissenting justices, the court’s four most liberal members, calling on Congress to fix what they said were overly restrictive rulings.

In Vance v. Ball State University, in which an African-American worker accused her supervisor of racial harassment, the court held that the person she accused was a co-worker and not a supervisor — a distinction that requires a higher burden of proof for the plaintiff’s employer to be found liable.

The majority decision, written by Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., rejected the definition of “supervisor” advanced by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission as someone authorized to take “tangible employment actions” or direct the employee’s daily work activities.

Rather, the court ruled that being a supervisor should be limited to someone authorized to take “tangible employment actions” like hiring, firing, promoting, demoting or reassigning employees to significantly different responsibilities.

Justice Alito, noting that there are numerous definitions of who is a supervisor, wrote that “the ability to direct another employee’s tasks is simply not sufficient” to declare someone a supervisor. He ridiculed the E.E.O.C’s definition of supervisor, saying it was a “study in ambiguity.”

The plaintiff, Maetta Vance, a banquet worker at Ball State University in Muncie, Ind., asserted that Saundra Davis, who is white and was described as a catering specialist, had glared at her, slammed pots and pans around her and blocked her on an elevator. Both sides agreed that Ms. Davis did not have the authority to hire or fire employees.

Under previous Supreme Court decisions, plaintiffs claiming racial or sexual harassment faced a lower burden to prove an employer liable when the harassment was committed by a supervisor rather than a co-worker. For instance, if the harassing supervisor was found to have taken adverse actions against an employee, like demoting the person, the employer was strictly liable for that action. And even when a supervisor’s harassment did not culminate in a specific negative employment action, the employer could be held liable if the employer failed to prove that it exercised reasonable care to prevent and correct any harassing behavior.

But for an employer to be held liable when a co-worker is accused of harassment, the plaintiff has the burden of proving that the employer was negligent by not stopping the behavior.

The court upheld a decision by the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals that held that Ms. Davis was not a supervisor and that Ball State was not negligent with respect to her behavior. Justice Alito emphasized that the court’s adoption of a narrower definition of supervisor did not leave plaintiffs unprotected, but left them with a different burden of proof.

In a stinging dissent, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg argued that the majority opinion “is blind to the realities of the workplace.” She wrote that it is not easy for an employee to tell a harassing supervisor to “buzz off” even when the supervisor does not have the power to fire or demote.

“An employee who confronts her harassing supervisor risks, for example, receiving an undesirable or unsafe work assignment or an unwanted transfer,” Justice Ginsburg wrote. “She may be saddled with an excessive workload” or a shift that disrupts her family life.

Asserting that the ruling undermines Congress’s desire for “robust protection against workplace discrimination,” Justice Ginsburg warned that the decision would relieve employers of responsibility for the behavior of many of their supervisors.

“The ball is once again in Congress’ court to correct the error into which this Court has fallen,” she wrote.

In a second employment decision issued on Monday, University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center v. Nassar, the court tightened the legal standard for plaintiffs who assert that they faced adverse employment actions in retaliation for complaining about employment discrimination. The court held that the plaintiff must prove that the retaliation was not just a motivating factor in a negative action like a demotion but the determinative factor.

The majority decision, written by Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, engaged in lengthy textual interpretation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act. Justice Kennedy said retaliation cases should have a different, tougher standard of proof than in regular employment discrimination cases under the act. In typical discrimination cases, employers can be held liable if wrongful discrimination is a motivating factor.

The case involved Naiel Nassar, a physician of Middle Eastern descent, who claimed that he faced hostile treatment from a hospital superior because of his religion and ethnic heritage. He further claimed that he had been retaliated against — that he was not given as good a job offer as he had hoped — because he had complained of discrimination.

Justice Kennedy said it was important to have the proper causation standard in retaliation cases because the number of such cases filed with the E.E.O.C. has nearly doubled in the last 15 years, rising to more than 31,000 in 2012. The court vacated the Fifth Circuit’s ruling and remanded the case for further proceedings.

Writing the dissent, Justice Ginsburg said the tougher “but-for causation standard” that the court was adopting for retaliation cases would undercut efforts to fight employment discrimination. She also warned that juries would be confused in hearing cases in which employment discrimination claims would be judged by one standard and related retaliation claims by a tougher standard.

Justice Ginsburg concluded that Monday’s two employment-related decisions “should prompt yet another Civil Rights Restoration Act,” a 1987 law that in effect overturned several Supreme Court rulings.

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: June 26, 2013

A picture caption on Tuesday with an article about two Supreme Court rulings that made it more difficult for workers to prove job discrimination misspelled the surname of a justice who dissented from both rulings. As the article correctly noted, she is Ruth Bader Ginsburg, not Ginsberg.

99cent: http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/statistics/enforcement/sex.cfm
^ statistic of sex-based employment discrimination charges. data from govt. and includes the amount of litigation settlements etc.
YES you have to go to court etc to proove ur case. how many people are willing to go through all that just to right a wrong of their male coworker being paid more. and usually once the case is settled, that man/woman (90% of the time is a woman) most likely has to leave that workplace for his/her own sanity.

The data does not say whether the wage gap is the cause of the suit
It could be denial of advancement based on gender or plain old sexxual harassment


STill not this wage gap

99cent: i'm not going to argue with you because nothing I say will ever convince you. u are set in ur mindset.
and even when u say that you've experienced "subtle racism" i'm sure there are many whites who will argue with you and say that you have never experienced such and u are lying.
it's not my task to convince u of anything. u are set in ur mindset as a male who wants to maintain the status quo.
no point arguing with you.
crayola has presented data to u from the UN and US government. apparently, youtube videos are a more believable source of data to you.
LOL. no need to waste my time.

It is your call however I have read all the links you posted up and acknowleged the dartmouth research
pointed to you that assessing adjustments due to ownership of practice and years of experience is subjective and you ssy I have a mindset
This is direct from the researchers weeks n wallace...

I am not biased but I really wanted a healthy debate

No issues though

99cent: I may have but I can't say because I don't go around asking my co-workers how much they earn. The people who collect the pay data say unequivocally that there is a GAP.
in the face of the data, some have even argued that women aren't "negotiating" enough but when u seriously look at it, it's just plain gender discrimination.

race is another way people are discriminated against in wage. there is also a wage gap between races. so trying to remove race from gender is silly because they can be linked
see this table:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0882775.html

So you have not experienced wage discrimination based on your gender or know someone who has yet you speak authoritatively on the subject

The issue of race is real and cannot be discounted

Based on your data, whites earn more than blacks who earn more than the hispanics - all genders combined.
This is why affirmative action was set up in the 60s to help the blacks who are less than 15 percent of the popl and are thus a minority

99cent: even among doctors, obgyn track (maternal care) pays much less than other tracks.
women are also more likely to go into pediatric care and guess what, that track has lower pay.

can you now tell me that child care and maternal care is a "easier" job than other specialties?
talk about gender gap!!!

http://dartmed.dartmouth.edu/winter06/html/disc_gender.php

I read this link and the data is very subjective
If u look at the methodology quoted below you will see that they tried to adjsut for a range of factors which may be really difficult to objectively assess

It is even better to assert that women are not being given fairer advancement opportunities than say a male n female of the same qualifications and experience are earning different wages.
This i agree with

Excerpts from the research

They draw their data from phone surveys conducted in the 1990s by the American Medical Association. In ob-gyn, for example, the weighted sample included 709 white males, 162 white females, 40 black males, and 26 black females—all in nonfederal, office-based practices.
Adjusted:The researchers then adjust for such factors as years in practice, hours worked, type of patients, board certification, and practice ownership. This is important because females tend to
work fewer hours, are more likely to be nonowners, and are less likely to be board-certified than white males. Black males, though, typically report working more hours than white males and disproportionately serving the medically indigent.

Crayola1: I only work part time because I'm in school, and the job is just something to do so I'm not overly concerned with pay. In my actual field then yes I will be more concerned about pay differences.

Thanks for your response

As an intern do u believe you are paid lesser than a male intern


I read the links you posted and u will agree while the picture is not perfect it highlighted significant gains worldwide from 95 beijing conference

Excerpt on work

Work

Globally, women’s participation in the labour market remained steady in the two decades from 1990 to 2010, hovering around 52 per cent. In contrast, global labour force participation rates for men declined steadily over the same period, from 81 to 77 per cent. In 2010, women’s labour force participation rates remain below 30 per cent in Northern Africa and Western Asia; below 40 per cent in Southern Asia; and below 50 per cent in the Caribbean and Central America. The gap between participation rates of women and men has narrowed slightly in the last 20 years but remains considerable. The smallest gender gaps are in the early adult years and the widest in the prime working ages.

Employment levels in the services sector continue to grow for both women and men. In the more developed economies, the labour force – especially the female labour force – is employed predominantly in services. This sector accounts for at least three quarters of women’s employment in most of the more developed regions and in Latin America and the Caribbean. In contrast, agriculture still accounts for more than half of the employment of women and men in sub-Saharan Africa (excluding Southern Africa) and of women in Southern Asia. In those regions, the majority of workers – women to a greater extent than men – are in vulnerable employment, being either own-account workers or contributing family workers.

@99cent no need to discuss racism here........ the issue is pay gap

Have u experience wage gap due to your gender or do u know someone who has

99cent: why are you so against a male being paid equally to a female for the same job?
ex. in nigeria, a foreign US/UK national will be paid a LOT more for the same job as a domestic. this is not even hidden and just because you accept this (simply because the owner of such companies tend to be foreign) doesn't mean everyone else who sees a disparity in pay should just keep quiet or shut their mouth because a man owns the company or whatever reason is behind d disparity.

Pls pls dont put words in my mouth

I believe a professional of the requisite qualifications should eatrn the same whether male or female

Are you talking of expats now compared to local workers

Is that what this Is about

Is that the fabled wage gap

Crayola1: Have you experienced descrimination or racism before? If you say no, does that negate the fact that others have?

Its called an average, some women are paid fairly while others are not, but on average many do not receive a fair wage. Its a simple point really.

Next, in Nigeria at least, is there any transparency to see how wages are distributed? If no then how do you expect anyone to know who makes what.

I have experienced discrimination, racism subtly when I was on a study
In nigeria all the females I have worked with earn the same as a male with the requisite qualifications

So when u speak of wage gap based on gender, I am yet to see it in nigeria

This is why I ask you do you have a personal experience of wage differential based on gender or do u know anyone who has suffered it

Note I have asked fellis, bukatyne and 99cent and they have never been able to answer directly

Crayola1: Google.com I'm not going to belabor a fact that can be found in .0000009 seconds.

Thanks but I asked u specifically to know if u are being paid less than a male rather than recycling or peddling some others' words

IF u dont want to answer ,,,, fair enough

I will like to hear if any female that is qualified for a role as a male was paid less than the male

Then we can talk

Crayola1: If two doctors one male and one female do the same job and amount of work should they not be paid the same?

From high level jobs to menial work women are often paid less for their work even if they produce the same quality of work as a man.

Can you use specific examples please

In your field are u paid less than a male yes or no

99cent: clearly you know what feminists stand for because otherwise, u won't spend so many hours on here arguing against feminism. you clearly feel very threatened by it and what it stands for ie. empowering girls and women.

Iceland just banned strip clubs and por.nography that is degrading to women. many misogynist will be angry about that.
now tell me you don't know what feminism stands for? so why are you on this thread opposing it if you feel that it is "hot air"?

Frankly I really wanna know
Women have spousal settlement , maternity leave, benefits, right to vote n acquire property, equal pay and all

What do uw want

All uve said so far is right to get men to adopt womens names and stem courses

You did not respond to my comment on kim Kardashian n her destructive influence on pre teens n teens females alike

I have watched the video....


Scripture quoted: Titus 2: 11 - 15

Ameeting was convened by the national overseers of the church after the wedding
Some of them were also at the wedding and gave a report

The pastor announced that JOHN and LOVE KUMUYI DEVIATED FROM THE STANDARD

The issue is what is the standard and what did they deviate from

That dress is so modest

Then the letter of apology was read to the congragation

i will like more people to listen to it

AjanleKoko: Aggressive, not angry

There's a big difference.

true.. nice one

Santino1: Probably another year for a "one-slam wonder".

i hope so....


murray through....

djokovic 2 sets up leading 2 - 1

juman: nigerians are not happy people.

A country with:
-no electricity
-no water supply
-no job for youths
-no good roads
-health system is a disaster
-a lot of sufferness
-no this, no that

Abeg nigerians are not happy people.

Personally, more than happiness or not, i feel we are an angry people with terribly short fuses