₦airaland Forum

LagosShia:
[b]
if you review my thread :"Can God Have A Son?" properly, you will definitely see that the question is not whether or not Jesus is a "son of God".the question has to do whether or not he is "the only begotten son of God"."begotten" means "not made/created".this word "begotten" sends a literal meaning and not a figurative one.it would mean that Jesus is God's son like you are your father's and mother's son and i am also.

if we are talking in the figurative sense that all of us are figuratively "sons" of God,then that is understandable even though we muslims prefer not to use the word "son" even in the figurative sense to describe ourselves in relation to almighty God.actually this word "son" is avoided altogether by muslims in describing themselves as "sons of God" because the christians and trinitarians particularly who have given God a literal son (Jesus) who is said to have been "begotten" and "not made" have made the figurative expression of "son of God" infamous in the eyes of muslims.

now going into the bible itself we find many sons of God in the figurative sense.and in the new testament itself too,we read the figurative meaning of "son of God":

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God".(Roman 8:14)

when examining the bible closely,we also see that in fact Jesus is not a "begotten son of God" as the christians want us to believe and try to project a literal meaning.the word "begotten" is an interpolation.it is a word added by bible authors and editors to serve their doctrines that make Jesus divine.it is unfortunate that christians do not follow what the bible teaches but the bible has to follow what christians believe.these bible authors and editors backed by doctors in religion have dropped the word "begotten" from the bible when they published the Revised Standard Version of the King James Bible.so as we can see,the literal meaning of the term "son of God" refering to Jesus,who is said to have being "begotten" is not supported in the bible at all.it is supported in the councils of nicea and in the minds of christians that smuggled it into the bible and added the word "begotten".the word "begotten" as i tried to explain is an interpolation.it is not found in the bible at all when bible manuscripts are examined.the RSV has dropped the word.as for the other versions of the bible that maintain the word "begotten",they continue to deceive their followers that Jesus is a "sepcial son of God" and not a figurative one but a literal one.

you can further review my thread:"Can God Have A Son?":

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-811919.0.html[/b]

What gave you an indication that you are correct with your interpolation? Even the greatest of all profs have investigated the spiritual Nd misery things of God and yet not gotten it right so you have not added to wisdom but only twisted yours.

Jesus is not God’s Son in the sense of a human father and a son. God did not get married and have a son. God did not mate with Mary and, together with her, produce a son. Jesus is God’s Son in the sense that He is God made manifest in human form (John 1:1, 14). Jesus is God's Son in that He was conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:35 declares, “The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.’”

During His trial before the Jewish leaders, the High Priest demanded of Jesus, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God” (Matthew 26:63). “’Yes, it is as you say,’ Jesus replied. ‘But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven’” (Matthew 26:64). The Jewish leaders responded by accusing Jesus of blasphemy (Matthew 26:65-66). Later, before Pontius Pilate, “The Jews insisted, ‘We have a law, and according to that law He must die, because He claimed to be the Son of God’” (John 19:7). Why would His claiming to be the Son of God be considered blasphemy and be worthy of a death sentence? The Jewish leaders understood exactly what Jesus meant by the phrase “Son of God.” To be the Son of God is to be of the same nature as God. The Son of God is “of God.” The claim to be of the same nature as God—to in fact be God—was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus’ death, in keeping with Leviticus 24:15. Hebrews 1:3 expresses this very clearly, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being.”

Another example can be found in John 17:12 where Judas is described as the “son of perdition.” John 6:71 tells us that Judas was the son of Simon. What does John 17:12 mean by describing Judas as the “son of perdition”? The word perdition means “destruction, ruin, waste.” Judas was not the literal son of “ruin, destruction, and waste,” but those things were the identity of Judas' life. Judas was a manifestation of perdition. In this same way, Jesus is the Son of God. The Son of God is God. Jesus is God made manifest (John 1:1, 14).

First of all, even if the phrase “Son of Man” is a reference to Jesus' humanity, it is not a denial of His deity. By becoming a man, Jesus did not cease being God. The incarnation of Christ did not involve the subtraction of deity, but the addition of humanity. Jesus clearly claimed to be God on many occasions (Matthew 16:16,17; John 8:58; 10:30). But in addition to being divine, He was also human (see Philippians 2:6-. He had two natures (divine and human) conjoined in one person.

Further, Scripture indicates that Jesus was not denying His deity by referring to Himself as the Son of Man. In fact, it is highly revealing that the term “Son of Man” is used in Scripture in contexts of Christ's deity. For example, the Bible says that only God can forgive sins (Isaiah 43:25; Mark 2:7). But as the “Son of Man,” Jesus had the power to forgive sins (Mark 2:10). Likewise, Christ will return to Earth as the “Son of Man” in clouds of glory to reign on Earth (Matthew 26:63-64). In this passage, Jesus is citing Daniel 7:13 where the Messiah is described as the "Ancient of Days," a phrase used to indicate His deity (cf. Daniel 7:9).

Further, when Jesus was asked by the high priest whether He was the “Son of God” (Matthew 26:63), He responded affirmatively, declaring that He was the “Son of Man” who would come in power and great glory (verse 64). This indicated that Jesus Himself used the phrase “Son of Man” to indicate His deity as the Son of God.

Finally, the phrase “Son of Man” also emphasizes who Jesus is in relation to His incarnation and His work of salvation. In the Old Testament (Leviticus 25:25-26, 48-49; Ruth 2:20), the next of kin (one related by blood) always functioned as the "kinsman-redeemer" of a family member who needed redemption from jail. Jesus became related to us “by blood” (that is, He became a man) so He could function as our Kinsman-Redeemer and rescue us from sin.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/son-of-man.html
third link

DivideUs:
on the contrary, you not able to prove that he is, is his proof. You should be able to sell your product

What more do you still want because you will still ask? Does God eats, Does He goes to toilet, Does He sleeps, etc.

http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/debate/part1.htm

Second link i am sending

maclatunji:
Open another thread for your postulations. We are here to thrash-out the issue. Is Jesus the son of God?

It is obvious that the claim is not defendable from whatever angle we look at it. And that my people shows that the principles upon which a large chunk of human beings live are a fraud!

You have not shown any prove to disclaim such

DivideUs:
^yes u can if you corrected some flaws, and by the way Mohammed (saw) never claimed to have writen the book, it was reveled to him.

As for the Jewish and christain beliefs, Islam only corrects the wrong part of the doctrine as we belive in both Moses and Jesus ok

No you don't believe in Him, you only read and know about some things about him.
This is to believe in something.

You accept that that thing exists, you work in that thing, and take that thing as the only true thing. that is believe

DivideUs:
^yes u can if you corrected some flaws, and by the way Mohammed (saw) never claimed to have writen the book, it was reveled to him.

As for the Jewish and christain beliefs, Islam only corrects the wrong part of the doctrine as we belive in both Moses and Jesus ok

why is it only the flaws you went for, because you have a motive. And the same flaws where only flaws to him without insight to what it really meant. He choose to pick some he could change and left the other. Who was there with him when he claimed it was revealed to him" only him" and no one was there with only the animal that could not speak.

If Mohammed (SAW) was born several years after the resuurection of Jesus CHrist, and part of those things he wrote where inside the bible that existed before he was born. Then why did he had to beleive some part and left the others.
Then there most be a motive or some one twisted the truth for alot of reasons. I can not meet a chemistry textbook created by Ababio, reproduce my own and say mine is the original.

http://www.allabouttruth.org/history-of-the-holy-bible-faq.htm

DivideUs:
Jesus is not son of god, like so many beliefs in the christian religion the idea was taken from the Greek history where one of the gods zues impregnated a human and gave birth to Hercules, another is the celebration of Christmas, that also is borrowed from the pagans when the dry season come in and the leaves of plants start to die around the December period this pagans bring in a plant into their home so as to preserve the life of the plant as long as they possibly can like the Christians do at Christmas now, and its a known fact that Jesus was not born in December but rather sometime in the middle of the year.

Isaak newton who is about the worlds most revered scientist and philosopher who believed in biblical prophecies also believes, worshipping Christ as God was idolatry, to him the fundamental sin'.

almost every thing in Christianity is borrowed, the cross (pagan worship), Christmas, and zues like god. look into it.

someone wrote begotten earlier, can you please tell me what that means?

Isaac Newton was not born when Jesus was alive and he had the same believes as you are doing now so no difference.
I told you that HIstory can be changed but the facts behind history can never be changed. The word christian appeared first in the bible and it was because of the people that lived around Jesus saw that after His resurrection there were some people behaving and doing things like him, they were astonished and began to term them as "Christ like" that is christians.
SO  were did zues came from and hercules, where did he go, pls needs some answer?

Do any man knows the road he will take to heaven or anywhere where he dies?
Who will direct man where to go when he dies?
What principle or theory can prove where man will go? Except lies

I believe there are a lot of question Man will ask God.

maclatunji:
I has a simple questions (pardon my deplorable Inglish). If God was in the business of having Children, why did he stop at one?

-Excuse me, who is the would-be heavenly mummy?

- If you want me to believe that God has a son, then I may be tempted to believe he has a daughter. So where has this would-be daughter been hiding?

Are you suggesting that God partakes in intimate activity with all of this your "Jesus is the son of God" mantra?

He had to do that for a purpose and when the purpose was accomplished He said "Its finished"

Did God participate in any intimacy to create man, or all the animals? Did God calculate centre of gravity for man to stay glue to the world? Did you have to participate in intimacy to create ideas? You are reffering to God, that can create anything form nothing. If you dont know Him you can only Limit him.

omo alaro:
islamrules (m)« #27 on: Today at 11:12:12 AM »  

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If your logic is anything to go by, then ADAM is a superior son of God and in fact a GREATER GOD. When will you realise that whenever God intends that a thing should be He only need to say "Be and IT WILL".

Yes you got it right, but Adam fell, lost his position as god, then God that created Adam had to seek a better way to replace the relationhip and position of man then, ,

Thelstan:
Quote from: brainpulse on Today at 11:53:08 AM
Histories can be changed by man, but the facts behind the histories can never be change.-Anonymous

One man can tell a lie about his history, but can not fool his household about his history.-Anonymous

History is tricky business because it is written by scholars paid by the victorious side of a conflict.

History can be changed, but the fact behind it can never be changed.

[quote author=ola_pluto link=topic=813596.msg9662969#msg9662969 date=1322654664]The Jesus most christians call on is the Jesus they have moulded. The Jesus Paul told them to worship. Completely twisting the teachings and sayings of Jesus. So much so that Paul had to say you must believe in his trinity doctrine to be a follower of his new found Jesus. Jesus NEVER mentioned Trinity. It is Paul who conjured such nonsense. Perhaps if christians started opening their heads and minds, they will reason as to why Paul's teachings and letters have formed the basis of most of their believe rather than words of Jesus himself.[/quote]Can you see that you are contradicting yourself or someone is doing that.

How do you know Paul exist?
Why did you believe that Paul exist and his word didn't exist?
What will Paul stand to gain if he told a lie against the person he saw?
Why was his narration about the person he professed was not different from those that moved with him, even when he was not near or close to him and there was no proper documentation then?

If i ask a question now- that what is God doing right now?

1 million and 1 people will tell me different things, and each person will want to convince me that he or she is right. But that doesn't change the fact that God is somewhere doing something whether some choose to believe or not. So if God had actually conceived Jesus himself, do He need to explain the rational behind it to man? Do God need to take an excuse of doing things the way He likes from the people He created? So the moment you begin to asked yourself that Can God do this, or it's not possible for God to do that, that moment you have limited God, because why and how the earth is being suspended in the Galaxy nobody knows till tomorrow. The Origin and age of the sun is not know by man but he only speculates so if in our limitation do not have answer to those, then how God gave birth to Jesus is not an issue for man to negotiate, because he will never find an answer until He meets with his creator. But it is better to believe it until you meet with Him because there will certainly be no second chance

Thelstan:
I can see that I have wasted precious time on this thread.

People will only believe whatever they want to.

No you have not wasted time educating people about what you know. But they have wasted their time in learning what they should have Known.

[quote author=i.chuka link=topic=813596.msg9662447#msg9662447 date=1322650351]@op
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT, 2DAY IS THE 30th OF NOVEMBER 2011?[/quote]You only know that 2day is 30th of November because you created the calender to have specific identification of the Days you didn't created and existed before you. So you created means of identifying those days but did you create the days? No. Because you can not differentiate each days without the numbers you (man) put there. Its impossible or do you know the difference btw 1st or 2nd Dec 2011. The difference is that 1st is  thursday and 2nd is  Friday

Histories can be changed by man, but the facts behind the histories can never be change.-Anonymous

One man can tell a lie about his history, but can not fool his household about his history.-Anonymous

The problem is that the limited man wants to think like the unlimited God. The limited man wants to think for and question the unlimited and all knowing God that created him thereby ending up contradicting himself or confusing himself more. The limited man will ask a question that How can God have a Son without intercourse forgetting that simply a God that created everything from nothing can likewise do anything beyond human comprehension. The limited man also will ask the unlimited God that why can a Man claim he died and rose up the third day, forgetting that the unlimited God made the death Himself for a purpose. So things begins to get difficult when the creation begins to tell the creator that HE doesn't know how to create and he (creation) will teach the creator some rudiments of creation.
SO if the Unlimited God decides to come to the world He created like, any how then the limited man should know its for a purpose. If the purpose is only questioned without looking at what happened then the truth will not be established by the limited man, because he will try to change the truth from generation to generation because he is trying to tell the Unlimited God that, things cant just happen like that, that he cant believe until he knows the reason and wants to see the processes himself.
So dear friends no matter how you try to convince man, man will not believe it because he wants to see it himself and still question it himself. Even the limited man believes there is no God because he simply do not see Him,  so he will say why should i believe what does not exist that life is a process driven by some forces,  . So what created the processes and the forces,  man will think again and comes with logics and theories and he will end up at the start-up point again. God is just God, He has chooses to use the foolish things of this world to confound the Wise and in the wisdom of the wise exposes there foolishness.

This is what happens when parents or wards pass Waec and Jamb by all means and thru various short cuts. They now enter the university thinking to pass thru the University by the same means but they are left out when they are not able to cope.

@post pls sorry, its your cross carry it

Ojukwu24:
I don't think you read the Romans 14 I wrote in my previous post.

I love God/Jesus but will teach biblical things in the right way (in Love). You might have good intentions in what you are doing but in a wrong way. Have you read about the encounter Paul had with the men of Athens when saw the inscriptions on their alters "TO THE UNKNOWN GOD". Read Acts 17:22 down and see how Paul handled that issue and they believed him.
Your work is to tell them and keep praying for them and allow the Holy Spirit to do the main work of conviction. Paul said we should do the correction in love. This should also be done with wisdom. trying to force it down their throat will make them not really see reasons with you.

I appreciate what plappville is doing, no one is forcing anything on anyone , but she is coming out with biblical facts and inherent intents of the Word of God not views. The same topic had surfaced 100 years ago by the protestants and many where kill because of the revelation and closeness of some to reading directly the bible. But this was largely refused by the Church. PLAPPVILLe to me has not sounded forcefully but objectively or tried to push anyone's doctrinal ideology thru the eyes of the needle but has come to the standpoint of biblical empirical facts. Its our duty to put this out just as Paul pointed the heresy that was coming up in the churches in the early days in all his epistles to the churches in Corinths, colosse, Ephesian etc. Its left for every man to come into the reality of what the Word of God says.

Buch of clueless people parading themselves, since this wouldnt affect or reduce their salary and the security votes.
Bad leaders in SE

oxford:
Yah, the man is spineless and yet he made a mice meal of Atiku, wiped IBB silly, turned Buhari to a cry baby and ran Ibori out of town!
Yah, the man is incompetent and yet we had the most credible election under his watch, [b]yet Nigeria is now generating 4,242.7MW of electricity which is the highest this nation has ever generated, our economy grew by[b] 7.72% in the second quarter,[/b]Yah, the man is clueless and yet power sector like the telecom will soon be run by competent private companies competing for our patronage, ND is peaceful now, kidnapping is now for folktales in the east and hundreds of BH foot soldiers, linkmen and sponsors are cooling their heels behind bars. The man could be called names but he is still THE MAN[/b]

I laugh in Gadaffi.

Bolded 1. Nigeria is generating 4,242.7MW of electricity for who? U.K, USA i dont understand, because power in my area and environs are worst.
2. Economic grew by 7.72% where? on paper or on PC. those are paper writings. How does that affect the tomato and pepper seller. Mtsweeee.

Conclution. The man is brainless

@ walcom to Dozzy 3

Thanks for the answer given to Dozzy 3. Biblical things and teachings are not of human thinking i.e you ca't think or make asertions for what is not written in the bible. If John baptized the Infants, it wouldnt have cost the bible to say it and  it would have said so, do you think that the bible is foolish and you are very wise then you dont need to read the bible if you can think for the bible.
i tell you there were a lot of doctrinal teachings that are not based on the WORD of GOD but from human thoughts and logical reasoning. Then why do it, when it wasn't spelt out and you were even doing it in a wrong way(sprinkly). Then there are heretical notion and motives attached to it.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Matt 28:17 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Men based there beliefs on human thinking and ideology and tend to shy away from the biblical interpretation of the concised truth and intent of the bible. The bible is not so foolish that he couldn't have made mention in plain language of thngs that has to do with some particular set of people for someone to think for it.

Baptism was done ever in the bible by John the Baptisteven before Jesus came to show the meaning of it, because John was a fore runner and the one that will prepare the coming of christ. And he only baptise by immersion those that believed only in the message of the Kingdom of God.
So can the Bible be that foolish to keep silence on infants for someone to feel he is the owner and custodian of the bible and to think for the bible.
Someone can lay claim to the bible but no one can lay claim to the WORD of GOD because the word of God is made for all man to read. so no one is a custodian and the Originator of the bible.
The issue of sprinkly by water is an heretical (heresy) teaching and against the doctrine of the WORD of God. So if someone says something that no root in the word of God cant the people read and ask for God to interprete? Must people read and interprete the word of God for you always/ That is the problem in Christaindom where we have lots of doctrines and teaching not founded in the WORD of God and people accepts hook and sink because they are lazy to read, and when it comes to the issue of alcohol they can qoute all the verses in the bible to support their habits. But are they truely working in the ways of God, teaching, admonishing and living a rigtheous life?

I am LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL. OMG

You fought for the emancipation of your people
Generations now and unborn will leave to hear and appretiate your story

You are one of the few leaders

- R.I.P

Well he is lucky. I dont know maybe he included our own share on Nland, because we followed the case with him, we also helped him in prayers and help him analysed the whole issue and anounced the case to the whole world.

Make seun follow up now on our share.

this is one of the reason he sacked Waziri