₦airaland Forum

studentofTruth:
The verses I showed you are very clear: punishment by fire. eternal torment. You can wave them aside, or call them a place of Merry and party. Those are direct message from Jesus Himself.

I'm actually disappointed in your level of understanding. I expected more from you. Jesus spoke parables and you say they're clearly written... You need to change your moniker


Even at that if they Bible was teaching hell in this places (which I don't subscribe anyway) what is that to you?

To point out that God is cruel or what? I mean what's your point exactly. What's your interest in that?

Jafaar:
You are right and wrong,some of these men are led by the holy spirit,The hear him audibly Eg Enoch Adeboye.
Bishop oyedepo said he was peeing in the toilet when he heard the holy spirit say go and purchase a private jet.
people who serve God in those days were called poor church rat when we serve a God who has all the richest in the world,He had to switch the style.
The pastor's are not getting rich off the church,they are given gifts because of the their spiritual gifts,it I'd their choice to accept or not.if the stole tithe or offering that is the sin.
About the rich man it was a test,so you are saying if I become a billionaire tomorrow,I can't go to heaven because I am super rich

How do you know they're led by the spirit? Because they told you so? Are you okay like this?


In the Bible there was an order to receiving messages from God. You don't just wake up and start getting filled with the spirit and people start following you. There was due process, because our God has not been a God of confusion.

Today that process does not exist, it was abolished after the death of the apostles.

He had to switch the style, when where and through whom? God has standard don't you get.

Did you not read the part I said Paul said it was wrong to amass wealth with the gift of the church? Paul was a royalty, educated in the best university of his time, but he rejected worldly riches to serve God. Any pastor that want to serve God full time must reject riches. Do you know what it means to manage riches? Only the time it takes won't allow you to read your bible sufficiently talk more to preach to others. Is it standing in the pulpit? Jesus said go and preach from village to village. Tell Adeboye to try it and his church would close down in 2 weeks...your guess is as good as mine


If you become a billionaire bro, your chances are only about 1%. The devil controls the world, in the world led by God we don't need money, money is created out of greed.

studentofTruth:
You can tag them whatever you want and believe the ones you want. It's your business. The game in Christianity is to explain the Bible the way it suits you and your gullible followers will believe you wholeheartedly.

Are thought we're trying to read here.

Did I tell you I subscribe to pastors amassing wealth in the expense of it's church? The Bible doesn't teach that neither do agree to that.

studentofTruth:
what do you think about these:

Mtt 13:41,50
Mtt 25: 41, 46
Mark 9:48
Revelation: 14:10 -11
Revelation: 20:14-15

They are many. I want to believe you are sincere though.

Matthew 13:41,50 Is it a parable or not?

Mtt 25: 41, 46 A parable or not?


Mark 9:48 verse 47 the ending some Bible ends with Gehenna, some end it with hell, speaking of which Gehenna was a pit outside the city wall for throwing away dustbin in ancient isreal when nothing that goes comes back alive....is that parable or not?


Revelation: 14:10 -11
Revelation: 20:14-15 Revelation the book of signs and symbols Could this be taken literally?

The question now is what does the rest of the Bible says about the fate of unrighteous people. Does it match with the theory of hell?

Does the teaching of hell contradict teachings like?
Psalms 37:9,10, 34
Rom 6:23
2Pe 3:5, 6
and several others

Jafaar:
but you can pray the Lord is my shepherd which is old testament,even Jesus said he has not come to do away with the law of Moses .The world has developed you need money to spread the gospel,even native doctors eat from the shrine,A worker should be guaranteed his wages.
Jesus was trying to show an example that his apostles should not value money over him for other preachers of now to understand.Now because the spend money,you are not in their heart does not mean the value their money over God

Please I'm a full time Christian, but I hate someone defending nonsense. Be logical in your reasoning, not dogmatic.


I clearly mentioned that God's standard remains the same wether old or new. God's standard had never change.


They're features in the old testament that still hold true in the new testament. The reason for Christ was because the purpose of the mosaic law has been accomplished.

Jesus mentioning he didn't do away with Moses law he was pointing to the fact that some of the mosaic law was still valid. Jesus himself pointed out things in the mosaic law that still hold true in the new testament. You must not kill, murder, commit adultery still holds true even in the new testament and they were repeated as such.

My question is what new standard are you following for your modern Christianity or you're building one out of the blue?

Is it in Jesus time or in the time of the isrealites that they didn't need money to grow? These people made enormous contributions, they Bible clearly pointed that.

Apostle Paul rejected offerings that was given to him by the church. He mentioned that we can't be using our position in the church to be enriching ourselves. He pointed out that with his influence all of that was possible but he won't cause of the fear of God.

Paul worked with his own hands. He travelled far and wide to preach the gospel. The amount of contribution made in those days can't even be compared to our time. Don't even equate how much rich the apostles could be compared to our time.


Jesus told the rich man sell off your things and give to the poor and follow me, because to fully serve God completely you must ward away all mundane riches.

Or do you think Jesus or the apostles could not seat in one place and invite everyone to come to the church and listen to him?

They could command men from around the world, but the service of the Lord is a service of humility.

It is not a service of hunger either, because God cared for their daily needs. They trusted God and God provided their everyday need while they focused on the ministry.


Don't defend nonsense in the name of Christianity.

studentofTruth:
Interesting.

Please, I want to know your perspective on the Bible teaching about hell.

First I can't find hell in the Bible. If you have show me, I'll take it from there.

You can also point to any Bible reference you're alluding to as hell so I can take it from there.


Like I've mentioned the Bible doesn't teach the punishment of man in a burning fiery torment. Adam was told, dust you are and dust you would return.

Who would watch someone suffer in fire forever and never feel sorry for them? Even you as a human would be moved, talk more of God that we learnt love from or found created as an image of him

Jafaar:
you can't compare that time to this time,something's happened in the old testament that didn't happen in the new testament

Christians are new testament. Old testament doesn't invalidate God's standard.

Is there a new testament today's Christians are using? Christians are followers of Christ. Isrealites are followers of the mosaic law. Is there another one for modern generation Christians we're not aware of?

Or you're trying to create one? I'm asking so we won't be confused but united as the others were.


Jesus and the apostles are the example we're imitating. They were written as examples for us, the Bible says.

gypsey:
Ofcourse, i am not sure no one is, people are just following what they are made to believe for many years.


Historians backed alot of things, whether they are true or not we don't know, just because the bible was backed by historians proves nothing. Historians backed the existence of Dinosaurus, human apes. We read also that the earth is more than 5 million years old so how far back did they go? Did they chose how far back to go?

I have no definitions for heaven or hell, i don't believe in the existence of both, i was just repeating what christians preach.



DId you get to choose if you wanted to be a christian or not? I bet you just followed your parents christian believes the same way if you were born into an islamic or bhuddist family you would have followed your folks believes.

Like their hyporcritical behaviours, example: this so called pastors who are aquiring huge wealths and mansions yet preach rewards in heaven do you abide by everything in the bible? be honest.

All of it the whole bible...

Historians backing the Bible still continues to our time. These are real people and places that still exist to till our time.

The Bible says Babylon would remain desolate forever. History backs that and we can still see that today.

There is what we call authentic sources such as wikipedia and others. I thought your science teaches you that.

You can also do the research yourself instead of rejecting a believe based on your own uncertainty.

You're repeating what Christians preach and misinterpreting them.

I chose to be a Christian. I have examined every other religion and have my own solid convictions. If I find a better believe I'd leave for it. None has strong convictions yet, unless you can prove.


True Christian pastors dont acquire wealth. Paul, Peter and the other apostles never did. Jesus the leader himself walked around the earth of his time with no house, so whatever Christian amassing wealth is a scam. I don't defend nonsense.

I try to abide by everything. God ask me to try cause he knows when I'm not sincerely trying. Imperfect humans like Paul, Peter served God faithfully.

wirinet:
Is that not the exclusive preserve of you christians? You pick a few verses in isolation to support your belief or dogma, and then ignore all other verses that is contrary to your beliefs from the same bible, sometimes from the same chapter.

This was what you claimed;


I called you out to name the scientists. You then post a Wikipedia article that was actually contrary to your claims.
Now you change mouth with "at least there was a time when there was a believe in a flat Earth until a later time." So what? Millions of people still believe the earth is flat. Your claim was about scientists.

You guys are so dishonest, it's hypocritical to claim to worship a holy and just god.

It's not fight, if my arguments are wrong I'd own up. I'm not up to no dogma.

Yeah, I may have wrongly referenced scientist or the time period.

However, the point I want to allude to still holds. Great philosophers (I don't if they're not scientific) hold that claim for a long time. I was alluding to the fact that as humans we don't par with the Bible.

The Bible referring to God seating on the circle of the earth. I still don't understand what problem you have with that. God lives in heaven. Is the circle of the earth not part of the heavens? Or want to see him to prove your point? I'm lost with your thinking.


I'm not fighting with scientist, before you make it science and the Bible.

Science never knew the earth was hanging on nothing until 1650. Is that claim also false.


Then talking about picking parts of the Bible, I want you to point to one of such instance.

gypsey:
I don't.

I think, the bible is very contradictory, the bible appears like a fairytale or made up.

At least you're not sure yet. What's the possible contradictions?

Why do so called christians pick and chose always which verse or part to abide by. The part that Justifies their "worldly" sinful" lifestyles?

Give an example. True Christians church don't pick and select the Bible.

What is the origin of the bible? Why was the bible? Who really wrote the bible? Should we just take the bible's word for it? Just because the bible says we should? or must?

Historians back the writings of the Bible. They were written by men that historians can attest to.

However the Bible outlived any book of it's time, even scientific books. His mates have become outdated. No man can match that record.

The wisdom of the Bible remains practical down to our day. Most scientific books lose their value after sometime, just as your kid won't read the books you read in school. Normal humans can't match that.

The Bible is scientifically accurate. Even before science open eyes. So it's more than human.

The Bible speaks prophecies that took 200 years and more for them to happen. At least historians can attest to that.

The Bibles understanding of human remains accurate down any generation, no book can match that.


The Bible was written by several men who never knew each other but were able to write things that accurately matches the other person. It's like writing a story book and you tell 100 men to write it without each of them talking or meeting each other. The story book would be a jargon.


The list goes on and on.....

The bible says God exists because the bible says so.

The bible says sinners will go to hell because the bible says so.

Depends on your definition of hell. The Bible doesn't teach eternal torment. Even Adam didn't go to hell.

The bible says heaven and hell exists just because the bible says.

Still boils down to your definition of heaven. Man was never created to live in heaven.

Why are so called christians not following the or doing what the bible says litterally?

Which part?

Everything in the bible is questionable.

Which part?

wirinet:
You really need to go back to primary school to learn how to read.

I am still wondering whether you cannot read or you cannot comprehend what you read.

This is what your Wikipedia link says;


So where in this articled proved that scientist believed in a flat Earth until recently as claimed by you?


It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

And this his bible proof that the world is spherical? Ok where is the circle of the earth that we can find the Lord sitting?

And what about the inhabitants that are as grasshoppers that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain?

No dey read where you like, leave where you no like, at least there was a time when there was a believe in a flat Earth until a later time.


Read this too referenced in that article https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

Did you ask where is the Lord sitting or you just wan argue?

gypsey:
humans are born, they grow old and die. Some die without growing old, every human must die.

Look! If it cannot be very simple to explain or prove the existence of God then that drives my doubts even deeper.

I would have agreed with you if you had said you don't know if God exisst or not, rather than all the vague attempt to explain or proof it.

I even reseaches done by hadcore skeptics found that there are no proofs of the existence of God or Jesus. It is a believe and beiieves are ussually not factual. That is why there so many kind of believes. Some people believes in a sky God, some believe in other kinda Gods. Some don't believe in any God atall. Some believe their Cat, Dogs, donkey or snake are their God.


Just like our initial arguments on same sex, some people believes it is right to legalise it and some believe it is against their believes. I think some christians take their believes too far by claiming that their own God is the best, which is ignorant. Let every person believe what they like it is a believe afterall.

Just like people believe there is a place called heaven or hell but cannot proof it.

Do you believe in the authenticity of the Bible?

If yes, tell me why

If no, tell me why

wirinet:
Which fact? Which scientist said the world was flat? Name them.
Where did the bible present proof that the world was round or spherical?

The bible never presented itself as a book of science. That's a jacket people ignorant about science tries to fit it.

Calm down, no be by making noise

Flat Earth - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth


The Bible - Isa 40:22

gypsey:
Does it belong to you?

You lost me again, what battery?

Try without all the sheer assumptions.

More tales....

Your battery, your breathe

gypsey:
i have not started anything.

I think you would find it would be up to me where i chose to insert my penis.

God didn't create me,

This proves nothing, if God created me who created God?

You ve lost me completely, i am not sure what you are trying to articulate. This is how folks like you compare and confuse yourselves with your believes. I only asked for a simple proof that God exists.

It's doesn't belong to you to decide where you insert your penis, my friend.

Take away your battery and you can't even make that decision.

I don't know how best to explain the existence of God to you again. Can you see your sense? Does it exist?


Don't make wisdom a lab room.

gypsey:
See contradiction, God created weed but i shouldn't smoke what God created, why did God create it? Smoking it would be the best way to find out, wouldn't it?


I am not even going to indulge you in this ridiculous assertion.

God didn't create me there are no proof God created me. Besides, i didn't give God the permission to create me.

Don't start what you can't finish.

Cause God created the penis doesn't mean you insert into any hole or vagina, does it?

Cause God created you to fly off a story building or mountain doesn't mean you should fly down.


Someone didn't create you, but with all your intelligence and all humans creation combined none can create one strand of hair, a finger nail or even a minute atom.....use your sense now.

You go to a forest and see a house, you enter and start picking things from the fridge cause there is no proof anyone built the house, what a wisdom

[s]

wirinet:
I really feel sorry for people like you. You exude so much ignorance and helplessness that your only sense of self worth is some belief. You are incapable of thinking for your self, you are incapable of solving problems in your own life. You belief system makes you believe the solution to your life's problems lies with others or some external factors. This is why you are so exploited psychologically and materially.

Please improve yourself, get better educated, get better skills, expend your mental energy on productive things that will improve yourself and those around you.

You are too darn ignorant.

[/s]

Stop the attack. Speak with facts. If you don't have one don't act like babies or girls or weak men.


They area you highlighted in my comment are facts or not? Speak your defense and stop claiming intelligent without valid points cause you've said basically nothing

gypsey:
okay. If you say so.

More sentiments, so i am not going to bother, if you have never smoked weed, i wonder how you knew it makes me unintelligent. go and research weed or smoke it then confirm. It's not that difficult.

What you do doesn't affect others i guess, you must be the most righteous person on this planet, everyone likes what you do . Ignorance or what?


God doesn't exist, there are no proof God exists, it is just a believe, an imagination.

God who created the weed told me so, I don't need to smoke it.

Cause my room gets dirty now and again doesn't mean I shouldn't sweep it or rather carry dirt and pile in their. This time around someone dashed you the life you're smoking away.


You have not researched for the evidence of a creator, doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

If the world came by chance, why did chance stop creating new things?

Because you have the faculty to reject God's existence, doesn't mean you should use it

wirinet:
There is so much ignorance here that I don't know how to respond. You probably never open a science textbook in your life.
Bombs have been built since the discovery of gun powder.
Nuclear power was used to make nuclear bomb not by the effort of one man but by thousands of the world's best scientists through the Manhattan project.

Asteroid Apophis also called doomsday asteroid has a possibility of hitting the earth around 2068. If it does, it will wipe out most life on Earth, including humans. The west and other serious nations are already planing counter measures to avoid the collision. Meanwhile you guys are so ignorant and oblivious praying and speaking in tongues.

You dey shine eyes and mouth like say you know anything.


Who's praying with you?


Does bomb created by man equate one man?

Man is the constant innovation and competition to build the most dangerous weapons and for who? To save the world, I guess, in their myopic understanding.


Scientist have always claimed the earth was flat. When did the discover that it wasn't, is it not in the 17th century, when the Bible has said so thousands of years back.

The owner of the universe has proclaimed that the earth would last forever. Why are scientist pursuing vain things?


No one is praying anything. I can't even pray more than 3mins. The Bible gives wisdom, that's all I'm saying, read it.

gypsey:
come on now!, don't be so sentimental which countries legalised all you have mentioned above? Apart from weed can you proof any of this your ridiculous claims?

Besides, I don't know what is your interpretations of intelligent, but as i said, these things has nothing to do with not being intelligent.

If you i don't agree with your believes does that make me unintelligent or vise versa.

You may not like weed but i do, I smoke alot of weed, does that make you unintelligent?

Bestiality is legal in Finland. France, Spain, Australia etc allows incest...now you know...Google the rest.


Smoking weed makes you unintelligent.

If the sun wakes up one day and says I don't like the way I'm turning, i want to change it, would you be alive?

What we do or not do affect us or others.

God the creator is the right judge of how things should go

wirinet:
And these are the issues that affect your existence the most, so you spend all your mental energy on them. Some people are more concerned with looking for vaccines to save mankind from viruses, others are looking for solutions to deflect asteroids from wiping out the world, others steal are looking for solution to climate change. You on the other hand is more obsessed with other people's sex lives. Talk about misplaced priority.

The most educated man built the bomb that destroys humans life.

Being educated without godliness ends in stupidity.

We're humans before things. Because we care more about things humans lives have lost value.


Most of the problems scientist are trying to solve were created by them too.

Name it ozone depletion, viruses from multiple mates, chasm between the rich and the poor, money as a means of transaction ....

Nothing can wipe out the world not even asteroids....you cant use 100 or a 1000 years of knowledge to cotrol something that took millions of years to create....it's only being arrogant

Kriss216:
The Muslims will disagree with your assertion.


Sleeping with ones siblings is evil between man and God.

Who should create the rules or assertions?


If there was no rules the moon would collide with the sun.

If there was no rules, the sun would wake up one day and say I'm tired.


If there was no rules the sea would choose to leave outside its barricade.


If there was no rules ......



If we don't obey the rules of nature ordained by God things would spiral into shambles, just as the world is utter confusion now.

Kriss216:
It depends on how you've grown your conscience.

.
America/ns shouldn't be a yardstick to justify "being good".

Within you, you know what's good and evil, you don't need anyone to tell you that, not even a Pastor or Imam.

We actually don't need a pastor or imam, the bible is a better guide cause left to us our selfish conscience can always mislead us.


Some sleep with their siblings, because within them it is something good

gypsey:
I am not in suppoort of same sex marriage what is conection between legalising same sex marriage and not being intelligent? , Just because i don't agree doesn't mean they shouldn't legalise it.

Because it wouldn't benefit me doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit others, i meant same sex marriage.

Some countries have legalised rape, weed, incest & bestiality, that must be intelligent too?

Kriss216:
You should be able to differentiate between Good and Bad at your level of intelligence, my lady.

Our conscience can never be a good judge.

The most educated Americans at their level of intelligence that beats the world legalised same sex marriage.

Is that your definition of level of intelligence or of being good?

Jafaar:
you people like to criticize what you understand,by his speaking of tounges God blesses him with spiritual gifts which he uses to solve people's problem and the people may thank him with material things .He does not touch any tithe or offering of church members.
An ex general once gave him 1 million dollars for solving his problem,think off the others we don't know

Why didn't the 12 apostles amass wealth like he's doing?

Does he speak in tongue more than the 12 apostles?

What does the Bible say men of God did when people where dashing them money?

Emmadoc:
Op I think you should try and study the Bible without sentiment, study it with an open mind and you will see the lies they made us believe....

The tower of Babel was destroyed by God, and he confused humans with different languages because they wanted to build a tower that will reach up to the sky, that way they would be able to see him "God".

But God didn't want this to happen, hence which led to the destruction of the tower.

But today we have a 3,000 foot tall building standing in Dubai (Burj khalifa).

Today, we have rockets going to space.

Today we have jets, aeroplanes and more flying thousands of feet's above the ground but God didn't destroy them.

Tell me what happened bro, I need good explanations cos a brother is about to become an atheist.

Is God now afraid of humans?

Why didn't he destroy the Burj khalifa, the jets, the airplanes? Huh?

He was in opposition to God (Gen 10:9)

God wanted man to spread and fill the earth (Gen 1:28)

but he wanted man to leave together in one place

Kriss216:
The truth is, No one knows the actual way to Heaven or the criteria to make Heaven.


Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Pagans etc all believes their ways of life are the true way to Heaven, but that's not true. We're just doing guess work.




Just do good, that's all.

What's good? How would you define being good?


Helping a girl who's Hot?
Killing someone who killed someone else?
Killing to secure your fatherland?
Defrauding whites who stole our national wealth?
Killing all bad politicians?
Having only one girlfriend?



What does the term being good means?

Millerules:
I'm sure it's in USD...lol

I'm in pains

It's 10k not too much, make it 5k

How much do you have?