₦airaland Forum

SalC:
Bros I am laughing and have no reason to let it diminish sorry about that

Well Jesus said of all born of a woman, non is greater than John. I also know Jesus is born of a woman, are you now saying John is greater than Jesus or is this sarcasm also

I would rather say good question and not otherwise.Pass your comment regarding the statement in the bracket and then answer the below questions.
You believe Jesus is God don't you?.Can God be killed?.
Are the people he died for greater than him?
Furthermore,Christ was talking from a superior point of view while addressing his followers who knew he was not an ordinary person.That comment was for those whose conception were natural but his was supernatural.Others had a complete natural biological circle of procreation but his wasn't so.To answer your question therefore,he never meant that john the baptist was greater than him.But greater than every other person asides him.in any case if you chose to credit such meaning to Jesus,it is up to you.Our focal point not to digress is that Jesus said John the baptist is greater than Mary and everyone else going by that statement.if your opinion is that he is greater than both of them,that means you still agree that john the baptist is greater than Mary.

SalC:
You just did what you could have done before now instead of letting me expose you the more, its good you avoided the other post.

To your question, i never knew Jesus was rating John the baptist and his Mother Mary, maybe I missed it, you can tell me if you don't mind though I doubt I will have to take you serious and not consider your post sarcasm as usual after reading many "sarcastic lies" from you

Am surprised your laughter diminished at this juncture.But denying a known fact is something I can't comprehend.I suppose you have a bible don't know?. Anyway you probably don't. Incase you don't,go check it up from the bible of those who have. Jesus said that among anyone born of a woman(that is through natural means),john the baptist is greatest. Are you aware of that now?.

[quote author=Orter post=27345050]Have any one wondered how the writters of the scripture got the early stories of Jesus even after He has ascended.
Who must have nutured the church at that time?
Mary is more blessed for she listens to her son and meditate(ponder) on tHis words keeping them to herself.
Where were his brothers when he gave his Mother to John the Beloved?
Jesus is both Perfectly God and Man. Mary mother of Jesus is all inclusive[/quote

firstly you did not answer my question.Please in a simple straight answer do.
Again you raised a very vital question that is worthy of note regarding how the writers got the early story of Christ even after his ascension.Jesus' story in relation to john the baptist was when he was about 30years of age.These same writers wrote the story of jesus' birth and his relationship with Mary which catholics cherish so much and would die defending it. Ok,my brother can you now tell us how these writers got the story of jesus' birth and Mary?.

brocab:
Firstly I don't recall sharing with you anything I had mentioned, Christ asking the Pharisees to tithe. The Pharisees, first appeared in the second century B.C. They appear to have originated from a group called the "Hasidim" { God's loyal ones} By about 135 B.C. they were known as Pharisees {the separated ones} The Pharisees were the keepers of the mosaic law, {the Torah} they believed that having guardianship of this law was proof they were God's chosen people. To whom the Messiah would come, they believed the Messiah would be an earthly King. A son of David whom God would raise up, and establish an earthly kingdom, freeing them from the Roman rule. They also believed in order to remain in favour with God, by keeping the Torah. Second" Christian & Judaism do they stand side by side? Jesus Christ belongs, and is intelligible, only in his Jewish & biblical context, while at the same time an adequate assessment of who he is ,sheds a radical new light on that context, causes to be viewed differently, but does not destroy or negate it. it was the interest of the evangelist not to destroy or negate Judaism, but to remain dialogue with it. Thus although the Jews have a deadly hostility towards Jesus. The first fruits offering started with Abel, then later Abram gave "all" a tithe from the spoils of war. But it still don't answer your questions, why you believe tithing is for today? Birds they neither sow, and they neither reap, nor put into barns, but yet the lords feeds them. How much more are you. A few questions I have for you to answer, did the disciples pay customs or taxes, tithes to Jesus? And why did Jesus say in Matthew 17-24 when the a question was asked to peter, does not your teacher not pay the temple tax? he said yes, after walking into the house, Jesus asked him saying what do you think Simon? From whom do the Kings of the Earth take customs or taxes, from their own sons or from strangers. Peter answered from strangers. Jesus then said the sons are free. Tithing back then was use to feed the priest-hood, as well as the poor, the needy. the strangers, the widows. The law on tithing was to bring foods into the store house. If The tithing was set up so their will be food in the storehouse to feed the priest-hood, and the poor? Then why do the churches today, ask for the tithe from all walks of life, such as the needy, the poor, the widows, and the fatherless, the rich and the middle class people? And what storehouse can hold massive large numbers of financial gain. for whom? And why does the lord say in 1 Timothy 6-5 unless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose the godliness is the means of gain. From such withdraw yourselves.

Sorry Bros,it was not meant for you but mistakenly directed.I know we are on the same page.Thanks.

Image123:
But for YEARS, you've being unable to produce scriptures or even twist any that bars or discouraged tithes on gentile soil.

What other prove are you looking for?. Since you clearly know and understand that even your own jesus and his followers did not pay nor receive tithes.The onus is therefore on you to explain to him the reasons why they did neither of it.Probably if you meet Jesus or Paul or peter ect,you will still ask them to show you where they wrote it down that jesus and his followers must not tithe even when they are not tithing.In reality you are the one twisting the bible and not that guy.Just simply explain why jesus and his followers did none of it and it would be clear.But as long as you tithe advocators explain it without including jesus and his disciples,then there is a conspiracy somewhere.

SalC:
We know lying lips when we see them, oh really Catholics said that? Or is it sarcasm too

Please keep on laughing and don't change your face.I love that. Now answer the other question truthfully. Did jesus say john the baptist is greater than Mary or not?

[quote author=asuustrike1 post=27328198]you haven't answered my question. did Jesus destroyed the old law? I have giving you biblical passages to back up my claims yet you're not convinced. If you still not convinced, Go on a fast and ask the holy spirit to expose you more on tithing. and for those falling ignorantly For the devices of the devil because you believe tithing isn't necessary, pray earnestly and seek God's face for direction because I Was once like you till the lord reveal it to me. in a nutshell, tithing is part of our obligation to God whether you like it or not. when you get heaven ask God why he made it. Do not lean On your understanding but ask the holy spirit to lead. As far the Bible stated it there, it's a law .if you like argue till Jesus come, you will not change it and the lord Almighty will judge according to what is written and not what you or your pastor thinks
lasly there's nothing like new testament. church Or what name attached to it if not there would not be need for old testament. There wouldn't be need for Jesus to read the book of Isaiah . Some you think running from tithing isn't sin but they end up falling victims for the accuser of the brethren who looks for any slightest fault we make to strike. In case you don't know, witches pay tithe and those that seek for money visit rituals. take it or leave. [/quote

brocab:
Tithing May be for you, because "you" and many don't see reason? The bible shows us clearly on truth. And Jesus has been reaching out showing this in scripture. And why? Before myself their has been many quoting bible truths, on this forum. Because its those few who have found the truth, trying to share the word to our brothers and sisters in Christ, quoting scriptures verse after verse-given you all the guide lines so you can "find" what Jesus found in word for us, in truth. You can believe the lie? But when the time comes meeting up with the lord, I pray you have a good testimony why you believe by choosing to support these many Churches who are involved in quoting and believing and teaching another doctrine {tithing}. Think about it' pastors-preachers, talk more on tithing and offerings, more then the actual call out for the salvation prayer. Less preaching, music, and tithing, is the man's translation. Not the lords. Before I came to the lord, I too was a Robin Hood, brought up in the broncs,{The streets I "lived" was my Kingdom} Ripping off the rich, the needy and the poor. Just to feel satisfied, patting myself on my back, "saying" well done good and faithful servant. And today I see" in our many churches, no different with the life of crime I had lived. I walked in those torments, and carried the heavy burdens" I believed, and walked in the lies. As many of our believers do today? And many refuse to believe the truth, Listen you have nothing to loose. Give yourselves entirely to the lord. He promised in word he will never leave you nor forsake you. He is the way to all truth & the life.

Bros your write up is lenghty but I tried to see exactly how tithing in 21century has corrolation with judaism practices. You mentioned christ asking the Pharisees to tithe. Could you please tell us to which religion they belonged. Again bros,while christ was talking to the Pharisees,where were his followers at that same moment?.When he turned back to his followers,did he ask them just like the pharisees to tithe?. Please give us reason for any answer you may have. I think the best way to understand this tithe issue clearly is to find out if christianity and judaism existed side by side.To my mind,they did.Do you believe this sir?.I want to assume you do just like me. Now help us answer this question too." Since Judaism and Chrisianity existed simultaenously.where was tithing taking place and where was it not taking place and why?". If you have a counter opinion about the existence of these two groups at the same time,please let us know. However if you agree,then bros we will now look into the reasons why on one side some people were tithing and receiving it,while just nearby a different group disobeyed. It is only from this point of view that people can reason with each other clearly.

brocab:
Tithing May be for you, because "you" and many don't see reason? The bible shows us clearly on truth. And Jesus has been reaching out showing this in scripture. And why? Before myself their has been many quoting bible truths, on this forum. Because its those few who have found the truth, trying to share the word to our brothers and sisters in Christ, quoting scriptures verse after verse-given you all the guide lines so you can "find" what Jesus found in word for us, in truth. You can believe the lie? But when the time comes meeting up with the lord, I pray you have a good testimony why you believe by choosing to support these many Churches who are involved in quoting and believing and teaching another doctrine {tithing}. Think about it' pastors-preachers, talk more on tithing and offerings, more then the actual call out for the salvation prayer. Less preaching, music, and tithing, is the man's translation. Not the lords. Before I came to the lord, I too was a Robin Hood, brought up in the broncs,{The streets I "lived" was my Kingdom} Ripping off the rich, the needy and the poor. Just to feel satisfied, patting myself on my back, "saying" well done good and faithful servant. And today I see" in our many churches, no different with the life of crime I had lived. I walked in those torments, and carried the heavy burdens" I believed, and walked in the lies. As many of our believers do today? And many refuse to believe the truth, Listen you have nothing to loose. Give yourselves entirely to the lord. He promised in word he will never leave you nor forsake you. He is the way to all truth & the life.

Bros your write up is lenghty but I tried to see exactly how tithing in 21century has corrolation with judaism practices. You mentioned christ asking the Pharisees to tithe. Could you please tell us to which religion they belonged. Again bros,while christ was talking to the Pharisees,where were his followers at that same moment?.When he turned back to his followers,did he ask them just like the pharisees to tithe?. Please give us reason for any answer you may have. I think the best way to understand this tithe issue clearly is to find out if christianity and judaism existed side by side.To my mind,they did.Do you believe this sir?.I want to assume you do just like me. Now help us answer this question too." Since Judaism and Chrisianity existed simultaenously.where was tithing taking place and where was it not taking place and why?". If you have a counter opinion about the existence of these two groups at the same time,please let us know. However if you agree,then bros we will now look into the reasons why on one side some people were tithing and receiving it,while just nearby a different group disobeyed. It is only from this point of view that people can reason with each other clearly.

asuustrike1:
what of Deuteronomy 22:5,Leviticus 19:28 Leviticus 27:30, etx are they not part of the old testament. don't satan use to mislead the saints. when he tempted Jesus, he quoted the Scriptures to justify his claims even when we all know that he Is wrong. You claim Abraham's blessing but don't want to know how He did It Or Abraham isn't part of the old law? Didn't Jesus say I haven't come to destroy the old laws but to fulfil it? why is the old testament there in the first place or is it for decoration? those who wrote the bible,werent they inspired by God. Why did God made mention of tithe. Tithing is for all believers be it pastor (Christians). Any preacher that preaches against tithe is anti Christ.

I think I love your disposition. In simple straight answers,please explain the followings
1.Some of those who wrote the bible did not pay tithe and refused to obey that law. Please tell us the reason.Were the also Anti Christ?
2.Christ himself neither paid nor received tithe.Was he an anti christ to himself?
3.Saul who later became Paul stopped tithing upon accepting christ. Was he an anti Christ?
4.The entire early church disobeyed the law of tithing. Were they anti Christ?
5.A levite priest became converted into Christianity and stopped paying tithes.Was he an anti-christ?
6.The bible says that who ever continue to follow the law is not worshipping christ but something else.Is this true or false?
7.Paul confirmed that before he followed the law thinking he was right,but now have seen the light and would never go back there.True or false.
8.Cursed is everyone hanging on the cross/we no longer bear the mark of the law on our body but the mark of the lord jesus christ.Please what does this mean. We are looking forward to your answers.

Bidam:
Hmmn! Came in and noticed the "antithing campaigners" have resuscitated an old dead thread with their resentments and biles bellowing to high heavens...Well good luck to them, i don't want to be drawn into foolish quarells and heated strifes with "bible illiterates".

I leave with this quote from John wesley..."When i die, if i leave behind me ten pounds....you and all mankind(may) bear witness against me, that i have lived and died a thief and a robber."

No!,you got it wrong brother.Rather than pull out with John Wesley quote,it is your duty to prove the innerancy of the Christian Tithing and teach people the corrolation it has with judaism practices.it beats my sense of reasoning seeing all the upholders of this tradition run away rather than calmly explain with biblical back ups,with specific proves from the early Christian point of view.As it is now,a lot of people really do not know if or not to tithe,but your teaching with sincere biblical proves may guide them.I for one has been wondering how tithing crept into 21st century churches since we don't read about it in the stories of the early Christians. Please before you go bros,help me answer these puzzling questions to me and please don't take it personal.Please answer serially sir.With Christ being our model as Christians,and with you being a true believer of christ,I beleive you would use Christ's divine teachings as the basis for your answers.

1.Why is it that today's pastors insist that anyone who does not pay tithe is cursed and that his breakthrough/open doors will remain closed?

2.Why did Jesus say that Tithing is not a weightier matter?.Even though he sarcastically asked the priests of Judaism who were not Christians to pay tithe,why didn't he encourage his followers to tithe?

3.If jesus did not teach his followers to pay tithe,if the 12 apostles and their followers did not pay tithe as christians,from where did the practise of Tithe paying of people in Judaism enter into christianity.

4.A christian paying tithe,is he practising Judaism or Christianity?.

5.What lessons does the activities of Saul who later became Paul teach us in the issue of tithing as Christians?.

6.Before Saul became a christian,to what religion did he belong?.

7. After he became a Christian,how did he and his christian brethren raise money for the running of the church?

8.Did the 12 apostles receive tithe?

9.Did the 12 apostles teach their predecessors to receive tithe?

10.The greatest priest ever on earth was Jesus,did he receive any percentage from the income and revenue of his followers?.

11.If a common priest deserved 10% of peoples sweat? How much % do you think christ deserved?

12.The two most prominent religions of that time(Judaism and Christianity) existed side by side during the era of the 12 apostles.While those who practised Judaism worshipped in the temple,Christians had fellowships in houses of brethrens until they are able to raise a structure for shelter.While tithing was traditional in the temple,the christians were on their own and did not partake.So at what point in time did Christians start paying tithes?

13.So is a person truly a christian or a practiser of Judaism when paying tithe that was never encouraged by the master he claim to be serving today?

14.Tithing also involved the remission of sins of the Israelites whose tithed animals were also burnt up.Brotherly,if you find someone still doing this today as a Christian what would you tell him?.

15.The land where tithing originated has already abolished it with the disappearance of the covenant Ark and the destruction of the temple.Do you have any plans to take the tithing campaign to them to revive it?

16.Why are pastors congregants not educated about tithing in full,the origination,reasons,that it goes with animal sacrifice and burnt offering and most importantly it no longer exist in Israel.Bros can you educate us on why the originators stopped it and the learners still do it.

17.Also please tell us imperatively how early Christians raised their money to run their ministry,how they money was spent ect,so we see if it is in tandem with that of the judizers.

18.Some of the people who wrote the Bible did not tithe.The bible made us understand they were inspired by the spirit to do so.They also received great empowerment from christ spiritually that they even raised the dead back to life.Brother,would all these have been possible if they were cursed for refusing to tithe to the Levite priests?.Brother is a 21st century pastor who infinitely state that those who do not pay tithe are cursed better than an annointed one who even wrote the bible.Can you clearly see with this particular example that he is lying?. Please try to rob minds with your pastor on this particular N0.18 point ok?.

19. A Levite priest who previously paid tithes and received as well became born again upon accepting christ.He even "WILLINGLY" and not lawfully donated his land which was sold to run the ministry.Nobody cajoled him into doing it but simply saw the light.sir,why would a 21st century pastor ask that Levite priest to go back to the temple and start tithing/receiving again?

20.Have you given your life to Christ?.Have you agreed to work with the principles of christ and the apostles?.if you haven't,then please take a clue from Paul and the Levite priest who dropped the law of moses and followed christ without dilusion till the end.They were not practising Christianity and applying judaism to it through food drinks and money.

Please help out with answers.Take nothing personal,take it it upon you that you are a good christian who is out to liberate anti-tithers so they can see reasons from the Christian point

SalC:
The earlier you tell yourself the truth, and stop clutching on straws; the better for you, that post has nothing to do with Mary. How difficult is it to admit you were wrong? Humility and truthfulness are the attributes of a good Christian.

Btw how is it your business if I choose to make Mary my second God, funny it is no longer that we worship Mary now it is "we make her 2nd God"

I know sarcasm when I see one, sorry your post is by no means sarcasm. You only wanted to claim a supreme Bible interpreter but ended up flip flopping

It's obvious you have not been following this thread since inception in order to understand the trend.certainly you are dabbling.FYI,it has everything to do with Mary. If only you can swallow your pride I will let you know how.Before I prove to you that Catholics make Mary a 2nd God,I want you to answer these questions for me if you can.Please don't tell me that Chinue Achebe or Shakespare say......,answer straight. Mary and Jesus who is greater?.John the baptist and Mary who is greater?

btoks:
this further proves delusion as you're stating the same things I have stated but attacking at the same time.!Dude I'll pray for you.

I was only employing sarcasm to test your temparament which is also nothing to write home about when it comes to the issue of making Maria the 2nd God.in any case,you are much better than the other guy ranting and displaying catholicism.in any case you passed my test. Don't pray for me but rather pray for catholics to be free and stop arguing with Jesus. Jesus says john the baptist is better than Mary,Catholics say Mary is equal to jesus.What a confused generation.Direct your prayers to the platform of wisdom and understanding of God. Please do you also have any tradition about the story of john the baptist?. We will be interested to hear it too.

SalC:
It is obvious you are the blindfolded one here, this your post should have been directed to the person totally condemning alcohol not the person who is saying same thing as you, but no! Because he is Catholic you chose to ridicule yourself in your quest to portray him as "the never say right Catholic"

I was only employing sarcasm to test your temparament which is also nothing to write home about when it comes to the issue of making Maria the 2nd God.Your ranting was my expectation.So you fell for it.
Any other question?

btoks:
It's amazing how you contradict your own source of knowledge!! - http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-water-wine.html

Your interpretation is way off the mark. Please let us know where this was taught historically. Nothing wrong with Alcohol, it is excess that is sinful.

I think so much believe in human traditions has blindfolded the catholics that they no longer read the bible but rather quote it out of context even as partial christians they are.Bible did not condemn alchol drinking but advised against taking too much of it. In the OT,alchol was infact used and accepted by God in tithing. In the NT,an apostle advised a christian brother to take some due to his health condition. Let me know if you have any question.

btoks:
Bros, you may have been able to argue the bible more but that’s not the point. I don’t have to argue the bible, the church teachings are there and people more qualified and closer to events have already done the work. I don’t have to find novel interpretations to suit anything or learn how to twist the bible ( according to your words).
Your interpretation that 69:9 means Mary had other children holds no water as we do not have a reference to his mother’s children in the NT. Also, where historically has anyone talked about his mother’s kids. The CC looks at the whole of scripture and doesn’t just pluck verses here and there. The fact that the bible was only divided into chapters in the 13th Century by the church should give you an idea.

If I may ask, you said you saw the light, where is this light?

You have now ran out of psalm right?. And now you want to open another chapter about light or no light. Don't bother about that for now so we do not digress following your unworkable tactics.
Remember that your refusal to accept the teachings of the gospel on the basis that it has been corrupted already has ruled out your Mary as even having existed at all.Are you aware of that?.So your believe in Maria is the only reason why you "MUST" believe every single word contained in the injil.it is tantamount to idiocrity for any Catholic to open his mouth and condemn the new testament scriptures because that is where her beloved Mary is.Furthermore,Mary was around when some of these books were being compiled.can you notice the folly here.Againher first encounter with the angel was strictly related to her virgin birth.I would no longer ask you where it is recorded she would be Catholics intercessor,but I would rather ask you to explain to us why the bible omitted this role which is equally as important as her giving birth to jesus since the writers as you also agree were led by the spirit in writing.Can you please tell us why the angel was missing at a time he was supposed to deliver this second message about Mary. Since you partially believe in christ,please can you also tell us why Jesus in all his teachings never for a minute advised his congregants of which Mary was part of to pray to him through he beloved mother.Remember you are very quick in telling us that even Mary advised his disciples to carry out jesus' orders.Can you please tell us why one of such orders was not to pray to him through Mary.

Those verses clearly proved beyond any reasonable doubt that those men and women were jesus' step brothers and sisters.The reason is because why the jews may refer to just everybody as brother,the greeks are always specific about who they want to address.They give uncle to uncle,cousin to cousin and vice versa.In this record,the speaker meant jesus' direct blood brothers which the shared through Mary.Please check the greek version of that verse. Again and again,the speaker was expressing surprise over jesus' divine knowledge as something his blood brothers and sisters do not have.The surprise here is how come this man is mysterious when his mother,brothers and sisters aren't?. Otherwise the question would have been,"Is this not jesus?,is this not his mother Mary?,are these not his cousins?". Brothers and Sisters would have been completely eliminated. Since the catholics have falsely assigned the other children to a harlot who later became born again and had no husband even and was saved from a death sentence by the Christ, the questions could as well have been,"Is this not jesus?,is this not his mother Mary?,are those not the other Mary's children?,or are these not her sister's children?."

The bible never said anything about Mary in an honorable way after christ's birth.This is enough prove that her theory after her virgin birth is purely human evolution.Besides she was surbodinate to the apostles throughout her lifetime as she constantly followed other disciples in doing what the leaders advised.Giving birth to Jesus in no way made her immaculately born because she was a product of sex,was married,and was in a husband's home all her life.Are you aware that Jesus rated john the baptist way ahead of Mary and any creature?.Do you think christ is wrong?,and the RCC wiser than him?. Please explain to us we are waiting.
Astonishingly,the RCC .

MarkMiwerds:
If we read Hebrews 7:8 in its context, it is easy to see that that verse is not speaking of the monetary tithe that is being preached in the pulpits today. Back up to verse 5. What does it say?

Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Who has the command to receive tithes? Pastors on Gentile soil? Nope. The sons of Levi... Israelites who were given the command and authority to receive the tithes way back in 1450 BC. (Numbers 18:21-28; Nehemiah 10:37-38) And what was the tithe that they were to receive? An agricultural tithe.

Here men that die (Levites) have a command to receive tithes. It was AD 66, and the Temple was still standing. The Levites and Temple Priests who did not recognize Jesus Christ as Messiah were still operating in the commands of the Mosaic Law. They had a command to receive agricultural tithes from their brethren.

Hebrews 7:8 does not endorse a monetary tithe requirement doctrine for the New Testament Church.

Is it grammatical deficiency or lack of spiritual guidance. An early Christian pastor talking to early christian gathering,telling them what non christian worshippers were doing.That they received tithe according to Law of Moses which that same pastor addressing them was not doing and did not encourage.The person quoting that verse out of context,is he actually saying that the addresser was demanding for tithe from those he was talking to?. Is he saying that the addresser was teaching them to learn from the people of Torah about tithing?. For GOD,s Sake,when will people stop using God's word against God.That verse is very very very clear to even a toddler.it's not confusing at all. Our fathers used to tell us how their own fathers worshipped idols even though the have become christians.Does it now mean that they were telling us to go back to the idol worship of our grandfathers

btoks:
the CC teaches 'both and' not 'either or'. 2 Thes 2:15 will give you an idea.

Let us firstly find out what tradition mean:
1.The handing down of statements, beliefs, legends, customs, information, etc., from generation to generation, especially by word of mouth or by practice:

In Theology:
(among Jews) body of laws and doctrines, or any one of them, held to have been received from Moses and originally handed down orally from generation to generation.

(among Christians) a body of teachings, or any one of them, held to have been delivered by Christ and His apostles but not originally committed to writing..

Now let's go to your reference:
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle
Here the preacher was talking about the Christian tradition.Things that the apostles taught the beleivers,asking Ithem to hold fast to them by heart and by writing.
I am very happy you believe in Thess. and agree it has not been corrupted.You also admitted that the RCC make use of both the tradition and the bible. Do you make use of the traditions written in the bible or do you mean the traditions written outside the bible?. Please explain clearly.

hisableplc:
if d law was abolishd y dont we mould graven image n worship steal n do dos tin which were commanded not to do. one thing u fail to understand is dat d law led to imperfection and dat was wat led to d new testament message which is luv dat envelops d whole law if u can luv u can kip d whole commandment

You have just demonstrated here that you are simply under the law of your pastor,and both of you know absolutely nothing about the gospel of christ.Little wonder why stealing from people through old testament tithing is your priority. Scroll down and read my write up and perhaps your liberation will start from there.
Also stop saving your bible inside your box,it's not a sacred property but a good spiritual teacher. The book of Hebrew and infacts some other gospel books clearly stated that who ever still follow the commands of the law is not worshipping Jesus Christ but something else.Please teach your pastor this in time so he too might be saved.Perhaps he is not aware of this and that's why he keeps teaching you and other members of your church that the law of Moses is still operative. Do you have any question?

hisableplc:
Sir am nt confused about tithing cos a 10th of my profit is nt a problem and my offering even xceeds dat somtymz as long as my heart is right on track n my motive is gud no lele am still praying to give all like the brethren did in d days of peter if u r in d wrong congregation and ur giving wrongly pray for grace n directions and if u tired of giving lock ur money up in d bank no one is begging for ur money.
It was instituted by God show me ur own scriptures were it says stop paying tithes old n new testament

There are many different views that people have created in order to defend the concept of a Christian tithe. I have covered quite a bit
about the simple concept that the practice of Christian tithe, which is Christians paying 10 percent of their income regularly within a
Church group is really very very different from the biblical practice of tithe.

A quick look in the Bible and one can plainly see that tithe is spoken of as a practice of the Old Testament. What they don't seem to see is that it was sacrificial in nature. In fact all of the temple practices of the Old Testament had the central purpose of making
atonement for Israel in the Old Testament. After all this was before Jesus had made His perfect offering for sin, on the cross. And it's
also quite clear that Jesus and the New Testament church did not have a storehouse.But many people seem to believe that since it seems as if the new testament does not exactly or clearly change the old testament practice of tithe, that it then is to be a continued practice in the new covenant. One of the few mentions of tithe in the New Testament is where Jesus was speaking to a group of the Pharisees and he says they tithe, and rightly they should. This is then taken as a
verification that tithe is something that should be done…..
Mt 23:23* Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Lu 11:42* But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of
God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
The first thing we ought to do is to set this into it correct context. Jesus was clearly not speaking to His followers but to people of Israel in a time before He had going to the cross and made the offering of His blood for sin. Certainly the completely accurate and correct thing for Him to say was-- yes you need to tithe, that is to say you need to keep on making those old covenant offerings for sin because He
had not yet gone to the cross. But we also ought to realize that Jesus was criticizing these same leaders for placing money and physical items (these were the goods that were being tithed) ahead of the higher and more important principles of God. So Jesus was telling them you follow the outward parts of your covenant but you're missing the more important aspects.

We should of course look into the practices of the New Testament. It's very clear the New Testament church had no storehouse for goods. They were not accumulating wealth for themselves but rather following the example of Jesus which is to give directly to the poor and needy and to the needs of the gospel as God leads. Yes there are occasional perhaps even frequent times of taking up collections
for these specific gospel oriented purposes, however there was no temple building plan nor a plan of the accumulated wealth in the
leadership of the church, nor to support a full-time professional ministry.

We need to understand the history of the Christian tithe. The Christian tithe originates from the Roman Empire and their influence on Christianity. It was Christians sitting in console with Roman emperors who chose to utilize the Old Testament temple or synagogue system as the functional basis for Christianity. They chose to utilize the pagan temples as meeting places for Christians. They chose to
minister from an altar and have a priest/pastor as leader. They chose to confine most people in a congregation which had no ministry within the function of the church but rather have the job of supporting these structures and ministerial functions. These were the choices and developments that literally can be traced back to the Roman Empire in the influence on Christianity which created the Catholic
Church.
These were the decisions and influences of the "kings of the gentiles-- the princes of the gentiles" that Jesus warned of specifically (Mt.
20:25-26, Mar. 10:42-45, Lu. 22:25-29). Three times in the gospels Jesus warned that the "rulers of the gentiles" (certainly the Romans
where the gentile rulers over Israel at that time) exercise authority one over another among themselves. This is a very accurate description of an empire, the roman empire. But Jesus said "not so among you" and so we see his followers doing their best to reach
toward his highest example of ministry function which is to work in groups of equals and to follow the commands of a Leader who is not
physically there, but rather to follow the commands of God the Father in heaven, and of course the Christians after Jesus's death and
resurrection proclaim Christ as their head. And over the centuries these choices of the Roman Empire were very well defended biblically by utilizing snips and bits from the Old
Testament occasionally combined with a word or two from the New Testament. So we see the Christian tithe, which is clearly in history
invented by the medieval Catholic Church being defended by the choice its own choice of structure and ministerial function. What I need
to say is if you have already believed you must attend a church service every week, you must be a member of a congregation which does not minister, that you must be under the authority of a pastor,that you must meet with other believers in a large building, then it's rather easy to believe that you ought to pay tithe. Because tithe fits right into the established system of function. And so those buzzwords of 'House of God, sanctuary, ordained minister, delegated authority, submit, obey', seem to be the biblical verification of
practices that have been handed down through tradition. But anyone who studies history clearly understands these are choices made by people in the past outside of the New Testament biblical function. This is begrudgingly acknowledged by most Christian groups but
rarely ever openly talked about.


What so many people do not seem to fully understand is that the New Testament changes the sacrificial laws as of the Old Testament.
And it makes perfect sense. We have a different and better offering in the blood of Jesus Christ! Tithe was simply the number of animals and the number of specific crops that God needed to be offered to make atonement for Israel's sin in the Old Testament. The New Testament changes the temple from a physical building to people. The New Testament changes the priesthood from being an authority only found in the Levitical tribe, to a priesthood and authority that is in all believers. The New Testament changes the
functioning of Christians to be completely led by God on all terms, that is to say meetings can be in small groups or occasionally large
groups but we ought to simply use what we have to meet in since we have a different purpose than Israel. The purpose of the New Testament church is to spread the gospel which means that we need to send people outward to those who have not heard the gospel as well as to help and pray for the sick, help and pray for those that need deliverance, and to help the poor and needy. The New Testament
church had gospel witnessing meetings. They understood their purpose much better than we do since their practices were centered
around the function of the gospel. Obviously if we are practicing Old Testament principles we are very easily disconnected from the purpose of the gospel which is not found in the Old Testament. We are teaching a Gospel that we are not practicing.

Many Christian churches teach the New Covenant while they're practicing the old, and so it becomes an hypocrisy. It becomes that little
bit of leaven that leavens in the whole lump. There is much good doctrine in Christian churches but our practice of Christianity is actually very far from what we preach. So we have a situation where a church leader genuinely attempts to teach the congregation that they are ministers, that they have a priesthood, that they are the temple of God-- and yet at the same time we are sitting in a practice
that says very different. We are preaching the New Testament while practicing a form of the Old Testament that contradicts what we are
teaching.


Tithe is one of the strongest "glues" that holds us to the Old Covenant practices. As I said there are many biblical excuses and reasoning for the Christian ties. Some say it is law, some say it is above the law. If only we could see the simple verse that changes ties that is in the New Testament. Hebrews 7:8 says....
"And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth."

Here men that die receive tithes-- these are the Old Covenant Levitical high priests who received the tithe. But the New Testament ordains a new High Priest, Jesus. Again most Christian churches will of course agree that Jesus is the High Priest, what they exclude is the fact that only the high priest in the Bible has the right to receive tithes. So what tithe does Jesus our High Priest need to receive?
This simple verse spells it out……
There, in heaven, He, Jesus, receives of them up who it is witnessed that he lives. Gospel witnessing is the New Testament tithe.
Jesus wants to receive the souls of those who have received the witness that He is alive. Gospel witnessing is the New Testament
tithe.

PastorKun:
Coming from a notorious twister of scriptures and a servant of mamon like you, I laugh in Hispanic

Laughing is not enough,it's a very serious matter and you can do better than that.If he has twisted the bible.it's your duty as a true christian to correct him from the Christianity point of view.Start by educating him on why Christ never paid nor supported tithing by Christians,why the apostles never did,and even more interesting is that those who paid previously stopped paying upon accepting Christ as their Lord and saviour including a levite priest himself.Have you accepted christ as your Lord and saviour?. This is doubtful because from all indication you still accept the abolished law of Moses as your Lord and saviour.Please tell us if the apostles too twisted the bible too.Remember that some of those who did not tithe are part of the people that wrote the bible.So please explain clearly and drive your points home better,I have already given you some helps so it could be much easy for you to explain.We are all waiting.

hisableplc:
I dont own a church am nt a clergy so if dats where u r driving at u r wrong brother....the
point u r making is dat u r trying to go contrary to d written script u feel giving is a crime huh n dats wat am trying to make u understand no one forces anybody to give even Christ never made it so but if He was against it why did He aknowledge the poor widow who gave all that she had and turned down d pharisee who gave grudgingly brother wat u have is urs if u feel giving a part will make ur account red do d needful remember it only by faith we can please Him.
I have not regretted my act of given so if dosnt work for u try sth else

Little wonder you have no understanding of the scriptures.We are talking about tithing that has no relationship with christianity and you are here digressing.Your pastor will never lose the shackles holding you back from understanding that you have been tithing under inducement and cajole.Liberating people like you from such enslavement is quite difficult because rather than know the true God you make pastors you gods.If you are a reasonable Christian you would have known that the Levite you mentioned is a new convert who just left Judaism and donated his property willingly and not forcefully. Same is applicable to Paul.Are you wiser than them?. Is your pastor wiser than people who wrote the bible and yet did not pay tithe?. Is it you and your pastor that will teach people like the apostles to pay tithe?.What spiritual guidance or understanding does one need to find out why people who even wrote the bible did not pay tithe and then ask himself if he knows better than them. Please get your people and read the whole book of Hebrew.To a large extent it truthfully tell us who a Christian is,and not pastors who combine both judaism and Christianity because of glutony.

btoks:
I actually meant 69:5.Jesus had sins?one needs to delve deeper to understand that psalm which is why you can't just pluck mother's children to mean Mary's children.

Comrade,I argued the bible much better than you when I was still a RC.So much that my Cathecist shed tears uncontrolably when I saw the light and decided to leave in order to be salvaged.Like you now,I spent all my time learning how to twist the bible and evolve baseless reasons just to promote and defend the Maria Dogma.I pray you will someday receive this much needed understanding.

Psalm 69:5.This verse is not a confession of sin, but a protestation of innocence, He maintains that he is a sufferer, not for his sins, but for his piety.The sins of those for whom Christ died, by being imputed to him, no doubt became his in the eyes of the law, in such a sense as to make him answerable for them. But the Scriptures, be it observed, while they speak of him as "wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities," and as "bearing our sins in his own body on the tree," as if afraid to use any forms of expression which would even seem to derogate from his immaculate purity, speak of the sins of those for whom he died as his own sin. Please see Psalm 69:7 to lend credence to the above truth.

hisableplc:
Pls lets understand facts as adults concerning this issue if you feel you dont want to give no one is deeping his or her fingers in your pocket to give...i will like to ask you first have you given ur life to Christ?
|If yes then i dont think this issue is worth discussing cos if you have done that and you know the consequences of your actions as you believe, then if a scripture demands you giving a 10th or part of what you have to someone in need or the propagation of the gospel there should be no worry or concern at all....
Anyone who finds giving for God a big deal hasn't given their lives to God.
Take this for en-sample you give yourself to your spouse i mean ur whole self not the partial one we see this days, is there anything you cant give to him or her which you know you have a responsibility to take care of daily, weekly or monthly you dont find that an issue cos u r into it and mind you what you are giving to your is what you will get back in return if not even more cos i know some good ones will even add theirs and put something good on the table for you.
If No then keep ur gifts and have a relationship with Him first before you think of giving....
We emphatically teach this in our church if u dont give ur life first ur gift are not acceptable unto God so is ur choice...you cant give something insignificant if you havent give the significant...ur heart is significant any other are insgnificant
Now sometimes we really think we are doing God a favor by giving my brother we can measure what God has done for us to what we are doing for Him... it is countless and immeasurable to realistic

I disagree with your subtle approach and inducement attempt in addressing this issue. Must one who has given his life to Christ deceptively observe a tradition that is Unchristian?. You will do better using Paul as a good example in this case.Supposing you asked Paul that question?.Of course you know what his answer would be.Would you ask him to start paying tithe all over again?. From Paul's perspective,please tell us why a christian must not pay a sin tithe that no longer exist except ironically in the churches of materialistic clergies.Stop telling us what people who practiced judaism did because you are not one.Rather tell us what the christians. Who followed Jesus did because you are one.Until you make your points from the early Christian point of view,then it simply means that you and people like you have skeletons in their cupboards.

"Proof that Mary was a sinner, needed a saviour, had more than five
children, and is not mediatrix"


What the Bible has to teach regarding the rightful place, and call God had upon Mary’s life; the Mary who bore Jesus into the world when conceived in her womb by the Holy Spirit.(Matthew 1:18-23).
The Bible makes it very clear that God called Mary as a vehicle for Jesus Christ to be born into the world; a unique and special calling of God upon her life. In the Old Testament there is a prophecy from the Book of Isaiah where God made provision for a virgin to conceive a son whose name would be Immanuel – the fulfillment
of this prophecy found in Matthew 1:23. This prophecy relates to a righteous woman whom God would use, in her virgin state, to give birth to Jesus Christ. This prophecy of Isaiah was given about 750 years before Jesus’ birth.

(1) God speaking through the prophet Isaiah said, Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14) (KJV) With references to the Bible, Mary was chosen by God, as was previously prophesied by Isaiah for the divine purpose of delivering the holy child Jesus into the world. unique and
special
The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) are in breach to what the Bible teaches with regards to Mary, attributing her to a place of exaltation only Jesus Christ is worthy of receiving.Beside Jesus Christ, no one else can ever be, nor ever will be worthy of exaltation the RCC give Mary; which is both blasphemous and idolatrous.The Bible is the only source which records truthful reference about Mary’s life, therefore one needs to read and study the account of Mary’s life which will shed light upon the truth of what is written about her. Today the Bible is written in our vernacular so that
every person can know what God’s plan of salvation for each of us is.

(2)The infallibility of the Bible:
The Bible has been refuted by many people, and some of the many who have attempted to disprove its infallibility have eventually become its most dedicated proponents. Embarking upon to disprove the truth of the Bible, the words of Scripture have instead reproved skeptic’s lives of sin, righteousness and judgment, brought them to the place of
surrender, and liberated them.
The Bible has the ability to speak into the deepest recesses of our lives and expose every part. The writer of Hebrews said,For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12) (KJV) We cannot escape the Bibles message to us. When its been read and trusted, them who have laid their dependence on it have found it to provide the life Jesus Christ says it would. This is what makes the Bible true to what it says – the Bible does to one what it says it will do. Embrace it with your life, and live by its words.
Jesus promised by saying,If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall
know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:31, 32) (KJV)
Jesus had this to say in regard to His word when a woman approached Him about His (Jesus’) mother’s womb and breasts being blessed because they had conceived and nurtured a great prophet into the world (Luke 11:27), but Jesus’ reply to this woman was,
Yea, rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
(Luke 11:28) (KJV).Jesus said it was more blessed to follow the instruction of His word than be sentimental
about His mother who bore Him. The Bible says that God is not a respecter of persons which means that no-one gets preferred treatment (Acts 10:34; Mt. 11:11). Following what God instructs us in His word is more important for our salvation than anything else.

Salvation cannot be found in Mary, neither can salvation be found in any saint the RCC has canonized. Salvation can only be found in Jesus Christ of whom we can come
directly to through the Father. Jesus said,“… I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6) (KJV)

Below I have compiled a study comparing from a biblical perspective what the RCC teach about Mary.

Is Mary whom the Roman Catholic Church acknowledge the Mary of
the Bible?

The Mary of the Roman Catholic Church is not the Mary who is the mother of Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us about a Mary who is very different from the Mary Roman Catholicism revere. This I will prove to you.

Mary was a sinner:
Firstly, the Bible tells us that “all” men have sinned, including Mary the earthly mother Jesus, and have fallen short of the glory of God according to what Romans 3:23 says.Through one man (Adam), sin entered the world and death spread to all men. As death
came through Adam, so life has come through Jesus Christ (Romans 5:12-15).King David writing in the Psalms says that he was brought forth in iniquity and in sin when his mother conceived him, saying that we have all been brought forth in iniquity,
all been born into sin. Reference of this is found in Psalms 51:5. Only Jesus Christ was without sin. The Bible tells us,For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15 (NASB)The RCC claims that Mary’s virginity is perpetual. It would have been impossible for Mary to remain a virgin if she had a large family to her husband Joseph. Reference of this
is found in Matthew 13:55, 56.
Another RCC claim is Mary’s sinless state. Again, it was impossible for Mary to have been sinless because under Jewish law a woman who gave birth to a first born male was required to offer a sacrifice for sin. These Jewish laws were still in effect during the time of Jesus’ birth and ministry. The apostle Paul says,But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a
woman, made under the law(Galatians 4:4) (KJV) Read Luke 2:21-23 for verification of the law requiring a mother to offer sacrifices for the birth of her first born son.Ascribing to Mary a state of sinlessness is another attempt by the RCC to exalt Mary to
the place only the Lord Jesus rightfully possesses.
That Mary was not only a virgin before the birth of Christ but after her family of children to Joseph, Rome claims,
The deepening of faith in the virginal motherhood led the Church to confess
Mary’s real and perpetual virginity even in the act of giving birth to the Son of God made man. In fact, Christ's birth ‘did not diminish his mother’s virginal integrity but sanctified it. ’And so the liturgy of the Church celebrates Mary as Aeiparthenos, the ‘Ever-virgin’”

(3) Elaborating upon what has already been said, the first thing needing to be understood is Jesus was born under the law of Moses, therefore, according to the Law of Moses every
Jewish mother that gave birth to her first male child had to offer sacrifices to God. One of the sacrifices was a burnt offering, and the other was a sin offering. This is in accordance
to the Talmud (law of Moses) found in the book of Leviticus chap. 12. In order to get a better understanding of this, Leviticus chap. 12 needs to be read in conjunction with Luke
2:21-23.By offering the required sacrifices according to the law, Mary admits her sinful state and offers those sacrifices according to the “ ... law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons” one a burnt offering, and the other a sin offering (Luke 2:24).Luke’s record in conjunction with Leviticus 12 says “And if she be not able to bring a
lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering” (Leviticus 12:. Mary and Joseph were possibly unable to afford a lamb, so instead brought a pair of
turtledoves, and two young pigeons: one for the burnt offering, and the other for the sin offering. Upon Mary’s own admission of being a sinner she presents these sacrifices to the Lord.

Richard Bennett, ex-catholic priest writes:The unadorned truth is that like all other genuine believers, Mary of
Bethlehem was a sinner saved by God’s grace, through faith, not by any
essential righteousness or preserving grace granted in her own birth, nor any elevation of virginity within marriage as a higher call than what the Lord has decreed in His word. In this way she was and is truly blessed among women!” Read Luke 1:28, 42 for reference.

(4) Mary, God’s handmaiden of low estate Mary admits her position as being a handmaiden of low estate, and no more than this. She
acknowledges how God uses her as a vessel to give birth to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Admitting that Jesus Christ is her Saviour, she also admits her need of salvation.By Mary’s own words, she removes any idea of pre-eminence so as not to assume herself above God’s calling of her.For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. (Luke 1:48) (KJV)

Mary had more than five children
There is very clear evidence recorded in the Scriptures that Jesus had a family which consisted of brothers and sisters. How could it be possible for Mary to ever have remained or continued being a virgin if having given birth to children after her birth of Jesus while married to Joseph. For Mary to be declared "immaculate" and “Aeiparthenos,the ‘Ever-virgin’” by the RCC is certainly not in accord with what the Bible teaches.Consider this biblical reference about Mary having had children to Joseph after her birth
of Jesus.Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?(Matthew 13:55, 56) (KJV)
In another, and seemingly desperate attempt to preserve the tradition that Mary remains forever a virgin, the Church of Rome refute the passage of Scripture, Matthew 13:55, 56,
saying that the Mary referred to there is not the Mary who conceived Jesus.
Rome claims,Against this doctrine the objection is sometimes raised that the Bible mentions brothers and sisters of Jesus. The Church has always understood these passages as not referring to other children of the Virgin Mary. In fact James and Joseph, ‘brothers of Jesus’, are the sons of another Mary, a disciple of Christ, whom St. Matthew significantly calls ‘the other Mary’.They are close relations of Jesus, according to an Old Testament expression.

(5)f the Catechism claims that it was another Mary recorded in Matthew 13:55, 56, they twist the Scripture to suit their own objective and mislead many from the truth. Recorded
clearly in Matthew 13:55, 56 is reference that Mary, the mother of Jesus, had many children to Joseph.
Besides Rome’s exhalation of Mary, could this not be an attempt to portray her as a role model for nuns and priests to live a celibate life?

Is Mary the “mediatrix” between man and God?

If we try but fail to meet God’s expectation of us, He will understand, have mercy, and lead us to repentance because Jesus, who made Himself a propitiation for our sin,
represents the believer before God and mediates for us.The Bible says,
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the
man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5) (KJV).Atonement for our sin had to first be accomplished through Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross leading to His death, resurrection, and ascension. This had to all result before He could become our high priest and mediator before God on man’s behalf. By His own sufferings, Jesus is now able to identify with our suffering as our faithful high priest providing pardon for our sins.Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is
able to come to the aid of those who are tempted. (Hebrews 2:17-18)
(NASB).Unless we are repentant of our sinful acts and behavior, and ask the Lord’s forgiveness,we will never experience the liberty He has abundantly provided for us by His saving grace. The Bible declares “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9). It is encouraging to note what Isaiah prophesied regarding how Jesus painstakingly took upon Himself all our affliction (Isaiah 53:3-8; Matthew 8:17; 1 Peter 2:21-25). In our failure to live righteously, and repenting of our sinful behaviour, the sacrifice paid on the cross, His blood which was shed for the washing away of our sin, and believing in what He did for us will make us acceptable to the Father in redeeming us back to God. This is the only means upon which we can be saved.
In man’s unregenerate state there is no good work one can do to appease or obtain favor with God or of which we think can make us righteously acceptable before Him. The Bible says, “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” (Isaiah 64:6).
To reject what the Bible says about the salvation God has brought through Jesus Christ His Son, brings God’s wrath upon us.Another false claim Roman Catholicism teaches is that God is angry when we fail in His
expectation of us, and that Mary is there to appease Christ’s anger by her intercession for us. This is scripturally unfounded and in no way biblically supported. Consider this
scripture:
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if
any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the
righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours
only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:1, 2)
That Roman Catholicism teaches Mary advocates before Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins is a direct contradiction to what the Bible teaches in 1 John 2:1, 2. The Bible
teaches that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit make intercession before the Father for the believer who repents of their sin.The Vatican teaches,
“...Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the (Roman Catholic) Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”

(6) More details of the heresy that Mary has such eminence are given in the Vatican Council II Documents,
“In the words of the apostle there is but one mediator: ‘for there is but one
God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave
himself a redemption for all’ (I Tim. 2:5-6). But Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men originates not in any inner necessity but in the disposition of God....”

(7) And again,“...Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the (Roman Catholic) Church
under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix. This
however, is so understood that it neither takes away anything from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficacy of Christ the one Mediator”

( While the RCC presents Mary as a mediator, they claim Mary does not obscure or diminish from the unique mediation of Christ. Where the Bible is very clear about Jesus Christ being the only mediator between man and God, Roman Catholicism ignore to
acknowledge this truth of what the Bible teaches.The RCC forbid its members enquiring as to what the Bible teaches about the communion God wants to have with us, which is, the acknowledgment of the Father
through the mediation of Jesus Christ the Son. Jesus is mediator between man and God, a position which Roman Catholicism say Mary along with Christ share. The RCC mislead
by this false teaching.The Bible says that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father as our high priest making intercession for them who come to Him for their sin with a repentant heart, and also providing the opportunity for reconciliation to the Father (Hebrews 2:17). In order for
Christ to have become our high priest making intercession for us, it was necessary for Him to suffer at the hands of men, die for their sins, resurrect from the dead on the third
day (Romans 8:34; 1 Corinthians 15:1-23), and ascend into heaven to be seated at God’s right hand. Jesus Christ continues to sit at God’s right hand making intercession for the
needs of the saints (the redeemed of God) as our faithful high priest (Heb. 4:14-16; 5:1-2; 7:22-26; 8:1-2). Jesus at God’s right hand also administers spiritual gifts to the Church,the body of Christ, in order to make them effective in ministry to reach the world with Gospel of Christ (Psalms 68:18). This has been all accredited to Jesus Christ and Him alone.

Jesus Christ alone is the way to the Father Jesus said,I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me. (John 14:6).There is a difference between mediation and intercession. Jesus Christ is mediator and intercessor between man and God, and the Holy Spirit intercessor (Hebrews 7:22-25;
Romans 8:26, 27).The Bible says that Jesus Christ mediates for us before the Father.For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5) (KJV)
By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing.
But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood.
Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God
through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.(Hebrews 7:22-25) (NASB).The Bible says the Holy Spirit intercedes for us before the Father.Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints
according to the will of God. (Romans 8:26, 27) (KJV)

Is there an addition to the tri-unity of God? Christ Jesus along with the Father and the Holy Spirit, are the Godhead, the all Holy One.
The RCC claim that Mary is also the All Holy One, entitling her advocate, helper, and mediatrix. Only Jesus Christ is worthy of such titles. To even remotely consider Mary worthy of such titles, and place divine roles upon her is blasphemous. The official
teaching of Rome adds insult to blasphemy in attempting to call Mary, the mother of Jesus, the All Holy One.
The Vatican claims,By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners
and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All Holy One.”

(9)“From the (Roman Catholic) Church he (the Catholic) learns the example of holiness and recognizes its model and source in the all-holy Virgin Mary...”

(10).The Bible makes clear that there are three that bear record in heaven, and not four, that is if Mary is to be included:
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the word, and
the Holy Spirit: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7) (KJV)

The RCC claim that the priest is the only one who is able to interpret the Scriptures.

hisableplc:
i dont think this is worth arguing but so many needs illumination of d mind by d Spirit....
If u can give ur life to Christ what is money u cant give for him mind u know where and who you tithe to so u xpand d right kingdom.
I only see people who value their properties other than their lives and the lives of others.

Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Acts 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Acts 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Acts 4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

Comrade,what corrolation does the bible quotations above have with the Judaism tradition of tithing which has been fraudulently incolgated into Christianity.?.Please elaborate further and explain to us if what you just quoted is a continuation of the Malachi tithing or a new version of fund raising for the church.Interestingly a Levite is also mentioned there,could you please explain all in clear terms. We are waiting.

btoks:
brother I wish you had addressed my response to your long post earlier so we can have a proper debate. i did not tactically avoid your point about psalm 69:8 in fact I pointed out 69:4 and whether this applies to Jesus. I still await your response.

Absolutely yes,it applies to Jesus. Or do you object to this?

OLAADEGBU:
I do not think many of them has read what's in Psalm 69:8-9.

They have,but just have no answer to it and therefore tactically omit it.Some have tried to explain that the comment is directed to the nation of Israel which makes no sense.Was Mary also the mother of the nation of Israel?. Have you ever heard them react to Acts 4:12?. Like I said earlier,they know and understand all these falshood and dogmas in them,but because it has been a long time tradition it becomes absolutely difficult to effectuate positive transformation as doing one will lead to other changes too and you know what this means.Total collapse of the CC.So they would rather stick to their evolution and damn the consequences.

christemmbassey:
These are parts of the questions we've been asking the fraudsters and their promoters ever since.

Brotherly,let's also look at this very pertinent point too;Even as clear and as understandable as it is,millions of people are still gullible and fall into their traps.
The "ORIGINAL" Israelites who share direct genealogy with the Levites were exempted from receiving tithes.Amongst the Israelites,only the Levites could receive tithe and then give some to Aron.Can anyone on earth for God's sake explain to me why a full blooded "NIGERIAN PASTOR" or infact anyone outside the direct family of Levi receive tithe when "REAL and ORIGINAL" Israelites didn't. Even if we are to follow the Old testament as some claim because of this tithe,at what time did God finally extend such reception outside the Levi family?.What spiritually explanation can anyone give to defend this since God made it clear that it must be for the Levite priests and some for Aron,and after this no more except that those who tithed would also enjoy part of it.Can anyone tell me why for example a Nigerian pastor is entitled to a Levitian tithe using the bible to explain this in such a way that it will corrolate with the commands in the bible.Brotherly,are you aware that Christian Israelites do not pay tithe ever since the gospel came to Israel till date.Yet the gospel originated from there.So how come it needed by God here. From my understanding,even people who practice judaism in Israel today have stopped this tradition with the disapperance of the ark of the covenant.These crooks have done these researches and hide it from their enslaved congregants.Do you know that if this practice still take place in Israel,they would make it their first reason even though only the Levites were mentiioned.

Bidam:
So when Jesus said He has given us authority to thread upon snakes and scorpoins. Did He mean literal snakes and scorpoins? No.

Because medicine can cure a few diseases does not mean sickness is no of the devil.

Just like there a real kings and princes in the physical world so also there are demonic princes and kings in the spiritual world.

Just like there are real serpents in the physical world so also there are demonic serpents in the spiritual world.

Just as there are real insects in the physical so also there are demonic insects in the spiritual. Unless God opens your eyes you will never know these things exist

Beelzebub is called Lord of the flies. And we all know flies are insects.There are demonic pests and diseases in the spiritual world.let no one fool you.

Because we are under a new covenant does not mean we shouldn't obey the instruction of the Holy Spirit which are laws written in the hearts of believers.

Even blessings can become a curse if you do not operate the covenant estblished in Christ Jesus from Abraham by Faith.

Most christians are oppressed by the devil because the follow the ways of the world and do not understand the ways of the Spirit.

If you follow the ways of nimrod as a christian then you become a slave to babylon but if you follow the ways of the Spirit then you becoe a slave to righteousness by Faith.

Jesus says if we love Him we shuld keep HIs commandments.The commandments here are not the 10 commandments but His teachings and sayings.The Holy Spirit is the teacher and the Helper.Jesus commandments/instructions comes from the Holy Spirit in the hearts of believers and as far as i am concerned tithing is one of those instruction.

He that despise instructions will definitely embrace affliction.There is no two ways about it for the scriptures cannot be broken.

Don't be deceived the devil also gives wealth but there is a wealth God can give that can outlast the wealth of this world and comes with peace and rest if only christians will only heed the instructions from the Holy Spirit.

1.You said one of Jesus' instructions to Christians is to Tithe,please show us where it is in the bible.

2.Again you said who does not obey instructions related to tithing will be afflicted.Can you please give us reference from the bible about a Christian that got afflicted for not tithing.

3.Did Judaism and Christianity exist simultaenously?.If the answer is yes,where was tithing being observed and where wasn't it being observed?

4.Where was Saul before he embraced Christianity?.After becoming a Christian did he continue paying tithe?

5.Did Jesus tell the priests in judaism that tithing is not a weightier matter or not?.If he did,why did he say so?

6.The greatest priest ever was the physical Jesus;He was incomparable to any priest past and present because he performed unimaginable miracles that were mere dreams before his advent.If a common Levite priest deserved 10% of peoples sweat,what percentage do you think this great priest derserved?

7.According to you,it is a great offence not to tithe since Jesus even gave the instruction,why didn't himself receive tithes as the greatest priest of all?. Is it because he didn't attach any importance to it?

8.Any christian leader "must" derive his leadership inspirations firstly from christ and then from the apostles who were the pioneer leaders.Can you tell us why pastors today claim to be representing the Levite priests?.Can you tell us why they constantly say that they are equally entitled to all the benefits that the Levite priests enjoyed including the 10% from tithing?.The Levite priests were never christians even though they had 110% opportunity to become one.Infact they orchestrated and masterminded the killing of Jesus christ and even set a notorious killer free in his stead.Why would a pastor claim to be representing a group who killed the master he claim to be following because of food,meat and money?.Rather than seriously claiming to be on the side of the Christ and his apostles and infact decide without any distortions that he will live and die in their principles


9.Jesus,the apostles did not pay tithe,were they afflicted according to you?.jesus himself did not take any kind of tithe to the temple in order to observe the law of tithing,was he afflicted according to you? Did he rob God?

10.Why didn't Jesus pay nor receive tithes?

11.Long after Christ ascended,the empowerment the apostles received spiritually was still incredibly active that some of them even raised the dead back to life.According to you,were they able to do this under both affliction and curse?

12.How did early christians raise funds to run their ministry? Was it through tithing?

13.The Levite priests concerned themselves with the things of the world,so food,drinks and things of the flesh was a major concern to them.Hence they emphasised so much on worldly things and you can see why tithing then was a major issue.However Christ taught we should place spiritual matters ahead of worldly things and must not lay up treasures here on earth.This simply and without argument explains why early christian ministry remained poor and broke.Jesus was always broke,so were his disciples.This is the only reason why they wanted Mary to sell the expensive ointment rather than pour it on jesus.Each time they were on crusade,they relied on what a few people had to miraculously feed the people.Has this jesus' concept of making heavenly things more important than worldly things like tithing ect changed?

14.Is it not possible that Jesus and his disciples would have been richer than the whole of Israel if they were extorting money from such great multitudes as the bible said?

15.A christian paying and receiving tithes that his master never encouraged within "his own" religion,whose religion is he practising and where does he stand?

16.Some little minds easily claim that since all are written in the bible,its of God and must be obeyed.So why did jesus disobey and taught his followers to disobey? Why aren't such people becoming members of judaism since it is also written in the bible?.Why must they practise both judaism and Christianity at the same time and yet claim to be spiritually guided? Why then did they not continue in offering burnt offerings and animal sacrifices?.If they believe christ has died once and for all,why won't they also observe in full the other things he did and observed?

17.Who understand the scriptures better? Todays people or people of the bible?.infact some who worked with Christ face to face,one on one,head to head even wrote part of the bible.So how come a todays priest know better than them that they can even evolve reasons to defend tithing by christians even when the "REAL" christians who wrote the bible did not pay nor receive nor taught about it since it was a system and tradition of a religion standing as a competitor to them.Besides this opposite religion tried so much to exterminate christianity by spending so much funds and energy but they could not succeed because Christianity was to replace their own religion.

incofab:
I hope this answer ur question if u are really open hearted.And not here just to win arguments.
Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
The church believes that Mary is in heaven same way they believe that Peter, Paul, Mathew etc are in heaven.
So, we do pray to Mary and Saints to intercede for us but in no way denigrating the supremacy of Jesus Christ's mediatorship. That's why when we say:
Holy Mary -- pray for us
Saints -- pray for us
But When call Jesus Christ, we say "have mercy on us".
It might also interest u to knw that we pray to Mary/Saints to pray for us, to God through Jesus Christ... That is:
Man --> Mary/Saints --> Jesus Christ --> Almighty God.
Of course u know that Jesus Christ is God.
That is it, In as much as u are free to believe what u want to believe, U will be doing too much by criticizing others.
I await ur questions, if any

Jesus had at least six siblings. These included his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas as well as at least two sisters. (Matthew 13:54- Mark 6:3) Those siblings were natural children of Jesus’ mother, Mary, and her husband, Joseph. (Matthew 1:) The Bible calls Jesus “the firstborn” of Mary, which implies that she had other children..

In order to support the idea that Mary remained a virgin all her life, some have applied different meanings to the term “brothers.” For example, some feel that Jesus’ brothers were actually sons of Joseph by an earlier marriage. However, the Bible shows that Jesus inherited the legal right to the kingship promised to David. (2 Samuel 7: Luke 1:) If Joseph had been father to sons older than Jesus, the eldest of these would have been Joseph’s legal heir.12, 13;32

Could the expression refer to Jesus’ disciples, or spiritual brothers? This idea conflicts with the Scriptures, since the Bible says that at one point “his brothers were, in fact, not exercising faith in him.” (John 7:5) The Bible distinguishes Jesus’ brothers from his disciples.John 2:.12

According to another theory, Jesus’ brothers were actually his cousins. Yet, the Greek Scriptures use distinct words for “brother,” “relative,” and “cousin.” (Luke 21:16; Colossians 4:)

Mary's perpetual virginity is a late 4th century invention by Costantine.This singular invention also gave birth to the theory that Maria is the mother of God.

The appropriate questions would have been "Is this not Jesus the carpenters son?,Are these not "our" brothers and sisters with him?.

And by the way which church believe that the apostles are in heaven?.The CC?.Now tell me the name of your bible and I would tell you where to read about Jesus telling them he has a big mansion in fathers house and that upon his return,he would take them there.

[color=#990000][/color]

Ifebazz:
The only question you should expect from them is 'where is it in the bible?' But don't worry yourself much, their hearts are not open. Cheers.

.
I think grammatical deficiency is a major problem facing you guys.Astonishingly you seem to take pride in it. An angel was on an errand to the Altar to add incense to prayers being said by the saints.before transporting both to heaven.This passage clearly teach that the saints were actually in their traditional devotion offering prayers to God;Their own prayers and not someone else's prayer.And while they did this,the angel was to complement it with an incense in his hands and send both to heaven for God's reception.How does this corrolate with your false definition?. Where does it say that the Saints had prayers the received from Catholics in their hands while waiting for the angel to come and carry?.I am sure you won't ask me if catholic existed at that time because if you do,it will be a continues process of you guys shooting yourselves at your own feet.

However it is wise for us to remind us that what John saw are things that are yet to happen.it is therefore tantamount to idiocrity for one to claim he learnt his false traditions from a vision yet to occur,and in so doing misplace both the content and meaning of the vision.

Brethren,I have been following all your comments since inception and just can't hold back laughter.The greatest of blessings would be on the guy that shared this post.It will indeed be an eye opener to those who are still in darkness and operating under the influence of inducement,ignorance and indoctrination.
I was a hardcore Catholic as a youth and would have killed for Mary if that opportunity came my way.It is very difficult to explain the religion of the catholics because in Christian matters they always try to argue out their points like juries on judicial contract.They have so much applied mere human intelligence in defending their faith so much that bibles used by any other denomination is unreal.However when they quote from their own version we read similar informations and the corrolations in alignment. They argue spiritual matters based purely on researches and findings by mere mortals whose primary aim always is to induce readers into glorifying their works.They attach so much importance to Languages spoken in Greece and Italy and feel that understanding them is a major step to God's kingdom.For the little minds,let me educate you now that no language is greater than another.Every language is equal to another and has the same value.God made it so.So if you stand before a crowd taking pride in speaking Latin as an old man,then you are making a very big fool of yourself because in countries where those languages originated,toddlers who still wet their beds and infact defecate uncontolably speak them better.


The bone of contention here is who Mary was?.
We all know who she was as is indicative of the Catholic bible as well.But because Catholics feel the writers of Mary's history did not do so in full,they felt there was need to expanciate and elaborate further.This elaboration however became a human tradition outside the bible and their own bible.A wise question here is why were the early christians who were Catholics as they say attach insignificant importance to Mary that they never realised until now that she was their intercessor on spiritual matters?.A most foolish way to defend oneself is to argue whether or not every thing that happened in bible times is included in the bible.Only relevant matters that would be of benefit to believers were recorded and any that was recorded was explicitly narrated and concluded up to a meaningful and reasonable understandng.In Mary's case,Isaiah would not have been daft not to add that after Mary's birth,she would go on to become the transporter of prayers made to her son and God.Even if he was,God's angel would have delivered the message in full.Are we also aware that Mary had parents?.Supposing her parents did not give birth to her?.So her father and mother too are equally blessed for giving birth to a maiden who gave birth to the Christ,they too deserve to be honored.The book of Psalm confirms that Jesus' mother had other children and the Catholic strongly believe in the Psalm of David.So why all this rigmaroling?.Let anyone who can quote this psalmic verse out of context do if he can.69:8-9

The issue related to worshipping Mary pulled me out of Catholic.In addition to keeping some informations unexplainably sacred and making them an exclusive concern of the so called exalted clergies who constantly made us believe the decisions from the Vatican are unquestionable.Jesus kept answering questions from both the standards and the poors until his death and even after.The catholics worship Mary indeed, and the pressure is so much on them to reverse such dogmatic practice but a change from this tradition will demand further amendments in other areas and this will question the innerancy of their doctrines.So what is in play here is nothing but pride and prejudice and an attempt to protect a man made doctrine that now hold millions of people under siege ignorantly.

Yes the bible said honour your parents so your days on earth would be lenghtened,the NT also confirms this.But it becomes practically wrong to honour dead parents or bow down to their lifeless images.How do you honour your parents?,by simply obeying their commands and heedng their advices,and when you are of age you take care of their needs.If honouring exceeds this,then it becomes worship.Therefore in the way and manner the Catholics honour their Mary,it is much more than a worship. Let's look at these few definitions of worship and compare them to how the Catholics honour their Mary to see if there is any difference between their honoring and worshipping.We need bear in mind that we are talking about "Religious Devotional Honour" here,and not physical honours suggested in the 10 commandments.

1.To honor and love as a deity

2.Reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

3.The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.

4.the act of showing respect and love for a god especially by praying with other people who believe in the same god.

5.The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.

Conclusively,I worshipped Mary as a Catholic because I did everything contained in the definitions above to Mary's image and the Catholics still do it today.infact as I am typing now,millions of Catholics are bowing down to graven images of Maria all around the world.Every Catholic Church compound has a sacred isolated region where gigantic Mary's image of any material stands and towers above every worshipper who "must" go in there,bow down his or her head either kneeling or standing and tell the image his problems,wishes or be thankful for a received favour.In addition to this,even non catholics all over the world make billions of dollars selling graven images of Maria to gullible Catholics who have been trained only to trust and obey.Every catholic adorn his compound and rooms with lots of graven images of Mary.I want any Catholic to dispute this,then ask any interested person to go to a catholic church compound and observe this.Now what greek words do you have for bowing and kneeling to graven images of Maria?.How does this relate to the early church which you falsely claim to have established?.What about the apparitions of Mary?,does it have any corrolation with the early church?.A catholic clergy once advised a woman diagnosed with Cancer not to receive treatment because Mary has shown her a concotion to treat her,this woman died drinking the concotion.I once had brake failure while driving,as I was contemplating where to steer my car,I and my mom rather than calling Jesus' name for safety were seriously calling on mother mother,a resultant effect of indoctrination and cajole.Thank God we have finally realised the truth as is written in the book of Mathew 4:12.

The mass exodus of congregants out of Catholic border mostly around Mary and her goddess role.So many names including the Charismatic renewal has cropped up and grown out of this faith all in an effort to redress abnormalities made right by human inteligence.As glaring as this dogmatism looks,Catholic priests are so tenacious holding firm to it because of the pecuniary interest involved.I know of a young boy in my town who was forced by his parents to become a catholic priest so he could help enrich the family.That strategy worked and today the parents are truly rich because they were able to maximise the funds they received from the boy by setting themselves up with a lucrative business.But is God mocked?.The seminary is nothing to write home about as well over 60% of students become gay men before their final year.The so called Sisters sleep around with men in secret and in some cases with fathers themselves.if you can promise and swear to a sister that you won't leak the secret,she becomes yours.Masturbation is encouraged and so many other vices.All these atrocities is the singular reason why purgatory is promoted because they falsely teach it will wash away all sins.It is also the major reason why bible is distorted and always quoted out of context without any meaningful points made in tandem to subject matters.The easiest escape route of a catholic when faced with reality is to ask if the bible contain everything that happened in bible time.it becomes so astonishing hearing some who calls himself a follower of christ ask such question.While it looks so smart to them,they foolishly forget that it is not for any body to add nor subtract,or at least they should present to us one that contains everything and revolve around their belief.Instead all we hear them quote is text books and literatures just anybody could come up with in a few seconds and make it God's ordinances.when asked why he is quoting from textbook and literatures,he would tell you christians bible is not complete or have been tamered with.

Bottom line is;you bow and kneel before images of Maria and believe in God by faith.You build special structures/houses for Mary's image where you actually go to worship.You give frivolous reasons for honouring Mary in your own language,what reasons do you have for asking carcasses you call saints to pray for you also?.Where is the position of Jesus in your faith?. What meanings does the teachings of Christ have in your faith?.Why do you refuse to obey him but rather evolve your own doctrine?.Or is jesus' activities as is recorded in the bible also corrupted?.What practices in Catholic today are in alignment with the early church?. Please seek the truth according to jesus and it shall set all of you free.