₦airaland Forum

Gabrielshow24:
Really, do angels have God's substance? 🤨

Tread carefully, this question demolished your predecessors: Max and Janosky.

Consider its implications 🙃 before positing else you end up like your fathers 🥲

God and all other heavenly beings are spirits

tctrills:
No I never said they are the same person.
I only showed you how 2 people can have the very same Title or position and yet it is seen as one.
Example,
Isaiah says we have only one Savior right?
Now I ask, who is the Savoir Jesus Christ or his Father or both?

Jesus and God are not in the same position.
We clearly see that from the verse you quoted, when Jesus overcame, his father and God promoted him and allow him sit on his throne.

Concerning the title, "God" and "lord", like you said it's just a title, that's why we have many gods and lords. Even humans were God's and lords. Just title.

So that's cleared

Who saved Israel from Egypt, Moses, God or both of them?
Any answer you get here should also go for your question

MaxInDHouse:

I tire o

I remember discussing with him for a whole night a couple years back. I know he doesn't believe in the Bible.

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=134282127]Now you are seeing his true color! [/qGod's?

I know he tries to paint the bible as contradicting and me I don pass that lol

tctrills:
Yes do you have a problem with this?
We both agree that there is only one Savior
right?

Isaiah 43:11
11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
So why do you have a problem with Jesus Christ being the one true God?

You can't believe him sometimes and doubt him other times.

You say they are different person
And also they are same person?
Or we have 2 Gods?

tctrills:
No, I did not say he is the same person. I just told you that they are two different people.
But then what was the reward? The Father gave him everything he has. So there is nothing the Father has that the Son doesn't have.
It's in your Bible just read it.

Jesus Christ is not like any other God, he is the one true God like his Father.

He is the Jehovah of the old testament. David called him his Lord. The men of old had a relationship with him.
He was the God that led the children of Israel across the Red Sea.
And he is the one that has asked us to be his witnesses.

No be you type this?

Avoid me

tctrills:
But he did not drag what was freely given him.
We just read that it was the Father that allowed him sit on the throne.
And yes everything Jesus Christ does glorifies the Father I agre.

Lol go warm eba

No be you talk say Jesus na the Father. So who's the father that allow him sit on the throne

If confusion was a person

tctrills:
Yes they are 2 different persons no argument.
And after Jesus Christ ministries, in his own words.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Not my words
He overcame and what did the Father do?
Humble yourself

If you feel anything I said is not based on the bible, point it out and I will apologize

Lol Jesus overcame and God gave him a reward, now tell me how Jesus is same as the person that gave him reward?

You must be joking

tctrills:
My job is just to teach. You can mock but that isn't a wise choice
I showed you the words of Paul in Philippians 2. 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

if Christ = God, what does that make him?
Ask yourself, if you truly believe the scriptures or if you will choose the words of men over the Word of God

If Jesus start dragging equality with God like Satan tried too, he would fall just like Satan.

Everything Jesus do and his doing are all to God's glory.

Gabrielshow24:
I don't think so,
Here to enlighten 🧐.

At least you alluded to Jesus' equality both in purpose and nature🤤...

Now, you are thinking 🤨.

Lol
Wetin be "equal in purpose" again lol

Angels have the same nature of God, so?
Angels also are united in purpose with the Father ...


Abeg when you ready lemme know

tctrills:
Jesus Christ is not like any other God, he is the one true God like his Father.

He is the Jehovah of the old testament. David called him his Lord. The men of old had a relationship with him.
He was the God that led the children of Israel across the Red Sea.
And he is the one that has asked us to be his witnesses.

They are too different persons
After Jesuss earthly ministry, God promoted Jesus to an higher position.
They are two different persons obviously.

Find another person to preach to.

Gabrielshow24:
Have you not said the answer your self?🤔
Have I not forced it out of your mouth 🤨?

Why then the question repeat? 🤨

If now I clone the repo of deepseek and I am added as a contributor?

Don't I have the full codebase of deepseek with me? 🤔
But doesn't wisdom dictate, I give credence to whom credence his due by referencing the owner🧐 when I use it?

Doesn't the term "contributor" reflect agreement in purpose?
What then are you talking about?
🙃🙃🙃🙃

If you have something else to say lemme know
Be like you come here to troll

delkuf:
the guy that open the post in his little sense was just comparing but you have start with your devish view

Little sense lol
Well at least i have sense

You don't seem to have any

tctrills:
It's ok if you feel so. But I know that if you took time to read what I sent you, your eyes will begin to be opened to the truth.
I provided lots of bible passages to help you understand who Jehovah is. Read and ask questions.
Ask your people then come back and let's discuss if they have any answers.
I believe we can discuss from the teachings in the scriptures comparing verses and finding answers.
If Jesus Christ like his Father is the Beginning and the End,
The Alpha and Omega, the Savior.
Don't you see that he like his Father is the one true God?
That is what John was speaking about in chapter 17.
It's a much stronger bond than husband and wife. The Father gave to the Son everything. He did not retain anything from him.
Like his Father, Jesus Christ is the everlasting Father.

Eyah

Gabrielshow24:
Did I talk about identity? 🤨

what's the problem with the comprehension of JW?

Your very concession makes it even more glaring that the Father and Son are one both by nature and by purpose!!!

How's this hard to realize? 🤧
Was it not here I asked someone what made God God?

No matter whatsoever conceptual definition you invent, Jesus will fit into it!!!

So if God has open-sourced his spirit, power and word for all.

What then makes him God🤨?
And if we have all these things, HE has open-sourced does it equate us to God? 🤧

What does Jesus's word at John 10:30 mean
What does he mean at John 17:11 mean?

StillDtruth:
Your point was that you were saying Islam religion is not bad whereas the facts show that it is.

Lol
Bro leave me haha. I never said islam is good or bad. Learn how to read between lines

You don't reply gburu gburu, read and understand what the person is saying first.

MaxInDHouse:
He's just a time waister!

Aswear
No be today i know am na

StillDtruth:
No Trinitarian says He is not.

All I think they are saying is that we should note that The LORD is also "our God".

By JW analysis also, Angels too are gods.

And the bible also shows that men are gods too. So what is the problem?

You don't see any problems?
There's only one true God we give exclusive worship to, the Father. He's the one true God for Christian. Cos humans are called God's or Jesus is called God doesn't mean we should worship them.

1 Corinthians 8:5,6
"...yet for us there is but one God, the Father, ..."

Gabrielshow24:
Although we are united in purpose, you also fail to mention the verse 1 John 3:2.

Which clearly indicates that we are also one by nature also🤨.

Do you agree?

People interpret Jesus being one with his Father as though they are equal to each other/same person,of course they have the same nature, they both spirit being and all, but that's not what we discussing here. The oneness means something entirely different. Not about being equal or same nature but about working together in unity for same purpose.

Now read John 10:30 then;
Read the preceeding verses 28 and 29, see how they working together for same purpose. Good day.

delkuf:
just a comparison and you have made people pick point to it. Look at what maxi said.
We should becareful with what compare

You get the comparison right?

tctrills:
Why this topic is very important is because it is the foundation of all we believe. Christ said, this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
If you don't know who God is, how can you witness him. This makes you a false witness.
We need to discover and witness all I do is to make you a true Jehovah witness.

Sarcasm lol

Gabrielshow24:
Now let me give you possibilities and if possible their implications along with the slippery slope they produce.

First meaning of "oneness": united by purpose! Which also tallies with your example of man and wife!!! - Intent

Second meaning of oneness: "having the same nature" as it implies being the same!!! - Identity

Which do you think given the biblical antecedents rightly describes Jesus Christ?

Edit: I didn't have time to elicit the necessary slippery slopes!

Jesus want his disciples to be one just like he's one with God his father, that shows being "united by purpose" like you said. Nothing else.

StillDtruth:
You made it expedient. See how you suddenly attacked me, even using something that is not within the scope of the thread, not to talk of the fact that I never said such a thing.

That would surely make me inquired into your state of mind.



That is the point of my other threads https://www.nairaland.com/8347687/it-roman-catholics-pagans-ruled and https://www.nairaland.com/8347711/roman-catholic-hated-christians-how

And the whole world has examined the Christian doctrines and they can all see that it is Good.

So no one says that Christianity is bad rather it is Christianity that saved the whole world in a lot of ways eg abolition of slavery and inequality.

"While the glory and benefits of the Roman empire are often highlighted, especially through surviving art forms, there was poverty and intense levels of inequality due to the strict hierarchical system set by Augustus. Christianity was appealing to many members of the lower classes in the Roman empire not only because of its promised liberation from any afflictions encountered in this world but also because of the established community that was totally equal, regardless of social class or gender, through baptismal promise, as highlighted in the letters of the Apostle Paul (Koester 1998).

But this should have been put in the relevant threads



This is not true. The world has been hearing the ideas and principles of Islam and every generation that hears them is impailed by them.

And their story of murder and violence is always tied to their Islamic principles, so you are Lying.

Lol anyhow. If you don't get my point, no p.

StillDtruth:
Did you hear me mention Trinity?

Okay

StillDtruth:
They would only see the things that they have seen and reported. And note theirs is individual.

But we are seeing everything together as a big whole, so it is natural for concepts to be born like monotheism, polytheism, individuality, trinity etc.

All these are just collective pronouns men came up with

Okay ser
I only believe in what Jesus and the inspired Apostles taught.

Only the Father is the one God there's

tctrills:
I want to give you an answer that I believe will finally help you understand that Jesus Christ and his Father are one God.
Let's begin with your very own beliefs. You believe that the Father of Jesus Christ is the God in the Old Testament right?
If so, Let's build this discussion from there.

Before then, remember we read in John 17 that the Father is the only one true God right? Keep that in mind as we go on.

How many Saviors do we have? One or two?

Isaiah 43:11I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me, there is no Saviour.

Jude 25
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

1 John 4:14
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Acts 4:10-12
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

From reading these verses, how many Saviors do we have? If you say one, but then we see that in different instances, both the Father and the Son have been called our Saviour yet we believe that there is only one Saviour as the scripture teaches. We see both the Son and Father addressed by the Same title but the name or title is one.

Let's take another example.
Who is the First and the Last? Or do we have two First and the Last
Isaiah 44:6:
"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
Isaiah 41:4:
"Who has performed and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I, the Lord, the first, and with the last;
Revelation 1:17-18

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 21
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Again do we have 2 Firsts and Lasts, or 2 beginings? No, we don't. But we can see that everything the Father is, the Son becomes yet they remain one.
Their name and Title are not split. Everything the Father has he gave to his Son and the Son will give to us

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Now we learn that the Father is God, and the Son is also God and they are one.
Just like both Father and Son are the Saviour yet we have only one Saviour, both are the First and the Last, Both are Everlasting Father yet we have but one Saviour, So are both of them the one true God yet we worship and know one God.

This is the message from the bible

Here are other references to the Son taking up the Father's position/title and yet they remain one not two.

Lord:
Father: Deuteronomy 10:17 ("For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords..."
Son: Philippians 2:11 ("and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

God:
Father: John 17:3 ("And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."
Son: John 1:1 ("In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
King:
Father: 1 Timothy 1:17 ("To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."
Son: Revelation 19:16 ("On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords."

Judge:
Father: Psalm 94:2 ("Rise up, O Judge of the earth; repay to the proud what they deserve!"
Son: John 5:22 ("For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son..."

Shepherd:
Father: Psalm 23:1 ("The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want."
Son: John 10:11 ("I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."

The Alpha and Omega/The beginning and the end:
Father: Revelation 21:6 ("And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment."

Son: Revelation 22:13 ("I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

So how come you don't see that both are the one true God? how come yu don't see that everything the father is the Son has become?

I pasted every scriptural verse so you can understand it as you read. Ask questions If you have any.

If I reply you make I bend

tctrills:
You have answered your questions now Jesus Christ relationship with his Father is nothing like husband and wife relationship.
Let's look at what you quoted and see who the verse supports.
And the glory which You gave Me I have given them,
Compare that to
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Jesus Christ was exalted to the Father's throne.
His faithful followers will also be exalted to his throne.

Now to the verse you quoted
1 Corinthians 8;5,6yet for us there is one God, the Father
We are told that Jesus Christ is the everlasting Father. Isaiah 9:6
So if you say that the Father is God and Jesus Christ is the everlasting Father, what does that make Jesus Christ?

Start believing in the verses you quoted.

Let's look at one more verse.

Philippians 2 from verse 5

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:oes that make Jesus Christ.

We learn that Jesus Christ= God
Not my words but from the scriptures.
So we learn that Jesus Christ is= to God
He has the Form of God
He sits on the throne of God.
He is Almighty (having complete power; omnipotent)
Matthew 28:18
Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority (all power of absolute rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
He is the Father Isaiah 9.6

With all these, isn't it crystal clear that he is God?
Let me explain your entire argument in one sentence.
You are saying that Jesus Christ is not God but still he is God.
You see how weak your premise is?
If you said that Jesus Christ is God but he has a Father who is also God and because they are one, they are one God, then no one will fault you.
Let me borrow your husband and wife analogy.
If I am John , when I marry, my wife takes up my name. She becomes Mrs John. Not so. Even your husband wife analogy is enough to explain how Jesus Christ and his Father are one (God)

What does Jesus being in one with the Father mean?

What does Jesus mean by praying that the disciples should be one just as him and his Father are one?

tctrills:
Let's talk about his disciples for a minute. Does Jesus Christ want his disciples to be like him and his Father? And in what ways?
Let's examine one verse.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

So yes, he will share his Throne (his dominion and Power) with them. They will truly be one with him just as he is one with the Father and shares the Throne with his Father. Everything the Father has will be given to them.

They also acquire the Godly nature.
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Do you see that it is much deeper than the husband and wife example?
The faithful are given all things pertain unto life and godliness, If everything pertaining to godliness is given to you, and you receive the godly nature, what does that make you sir.

Jesus Christ did not marry his father so it's not the same or even close.

Now you have stated that Jesus Christ is a God but yet you say he is not God.

I asked you to study john 17 but you lazy.
These are Jesus words at John 17 NKJV

22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

So if you still don't how Jesus is one with the Father, please kindly avoid my post. I reason with intelligent people only

1 Corinthians 8;5,6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, .......
We have many gods (Jesus included) but only the Father is the one God

tctrills:
My guy you don't know how excited you've made me.

Enjoy

tctrills:
Yea I read your response. I am actually excited that an entire organization has a special manual for me. It's an honor. As I said, I must be doing something right my brother.

Lol I'm happy for you hahaha

tctrills:
Guy I only answered your question. You created the thread so let me ask you, is this a thread for Jehovah witnesses or people of all beliefs.
If it's only for your people, then I will not disturb but if it's for all, expect to read my contribution and debunking.
You are free not to respond but allow me to use your thread to save people from your misinformation.

Lastly, I feel highly flattered to know that one of the biggest Churches in town has an anti free speech target on my back. I must be doing something right.

Lol chill
I already responded. Why are you triggered lol

All you have been doing is trying to picture the bible as inconsistent and contradicting, you don't even believe in the Bible

A don de engage you for talk no be today.

tctrills:
You should have titled your post correctly.
Yes Jesus Christ has a Father and he is God. But please explain the concept of the one God?
Explain how Jesus Christ is God, he is one with the Father but he is not the one God.

Again not that the bible calls him the everlasting Father.

I'm okay with the title

Explain how a man and a woman become one when they got married, yet they are two different person? Matt 19:5

Jesus is a God (he's divine and all) of course and he is one with the father just like a man is one with his wife (read John 17, see how jesus prayed that his disciples should be one just like he's one with the Father.), but not same person with Father obviously