OTDR:


Wow! this is getting personal? Abeg, I no fit referee again

Nothing personal here, I just wanna be clear, no offense, no need to be rude, etc...

You told me maybe she can prove to people like me kanuri dont only look like a certain way but I dont even know how they look on the first place. Now what I see from others people those guys dont look the typical Kanuri, you even said yourself they no longer have the features of Kanuris so yes it's interesting to see different kanuris but I'd love to see also the typical ones, I did some research and I have an idea now.

It's like when you talk about Fulani look, there is various types including the typical look.

French Fulanis

OTDR:


The post was titled 'Kanuri Men", because they are Kanuri men nonetheless, even though they may not represent the majority. Perhaps, the Op motive is to prove people like you, who see Kanuris as having one physical look wrong. Have you thought about that?

Besides, if you have been on NL long enough, which Im sure you have, you'll know that almost every NLander has always been very sentimental when it comes to cultural/ethnic/religious issues, hence OPs tend to project their tribe/culture/ethnicity in the best possible image they can find, while critics (also driven by sentiments) tend to look at the worse possible image. Which is why I have stopped blaming the players, but the game itself.

You didnt get me at all !!! I said I have no idea about kanuri !!! I dont know how they look at all so she doesn't need to prove me something or whatever.....
I know in every tribe, people can have different looks of course but there is a basic look that say you are from this tribe or another.
So for someone like me who has no idea about how kanuri looks, I would like to see the typical look because there is always a typical look, like there is typical fulani look.

OTDR:
True, the features of a typical Kanuri man is nothing like those shown in those pixs. However, just like hausas have bonded with fulanis via intermarriages etc, its same with Kanuris and the light skinned Shuwa Arabs over the centuries. So you have some generations of Kanuris like those in the pixs who no longer have the typical features, but they are Kanuris no less.

So can we really use those pics to represent kanuri people physically ?
Dont get me wrong, as you said they are kanuri but they no longer have the typical features so for someone like me who has no idea how a kanuri looks, thoses pics can be misleading.

VomeSchakleton:


It's very easy to assume that but if you lived in Nigeria you could easily differentiate shuwas from fulas.

probably !

princey83:
These pictures are men of shuwa / baggara descent. Post pictures of the common hausa/fula men seen everyday on the street.
Pic one:hausa man.
Pic two: Fulani men.
Nothing cultural about this thread. just a collection of pictures by someone probably obsessed with light skinned people having Asiatic features. How many hausa/fula actually look like people in these pictures

I have no idea about shuwa/baggara people so thank you for that, Africa is so big !!!!!. A lot of them look Fulani

tolugar:
The 1st pic

That girl is fantastically pretty

I agree, there is something pure about her face especially the eyes

Waouuuuuu many are very stunning !!!!!I wish some would be less artificial

Baaballiyo:


You might say that, " the first designers of the Boubou draw their inspiration from the Moorish or North Africans' mode of dressing" that would have been more plausible. But to say the boubou was brought by them ? Nay. The moors and other North Africans mostly use outer garments classified as either Cloaks or Tunics. While the Cloak is a sleeveless overgarment that hangs loosely from the shoulders the tunic is a loose garment, typically sleeveless and reaching to/beyond the knees. And of all the tunics worn by the North Africans the Isawiyya tunic is the one similar in appearance to the boubou. In that it is simple, wide and consist of a hole in the center for the head and one at each side for the arms, made of striped wool and worn by men.

You might say that, " the first designers of the Boubou draw their inspiration from the Moorish or North Africans' mode of dressing" that would have been more plausible.

You're right for that

GorkoSusaay:

No, I don't think so. Moorish clothing favours the jellaba.
I think the boubou spread out during the Ghana/Mali/Songhai empire. But that is a hypothesis

This empire was in contact with the moors and when I talk about Moors I talk about the moors of Mauritania (I didnt precise sorry) but we can disagree on that, it does not really matter. What is important to me is that muslim people wether Moors or Sahelian brought this first.
I say that because a lof of non muslim black criticize black muslim for being muslim

GorkoSusaay:


Moors wear different types of kaftan. Boubou, babanriga, agbada are Sahelian clothings, not Arabic ones

Plus Moors are not arabs !

GorkoSusaay:


Moors wear different types of kaftan. Boubou, babanriga, agbada are Sahelian clothings, not Arabic ones

Yes but boubou were brought by them

It's true Black Africans muslims were the first to wear the "boubou" but it was brought by the North Africans Moors not the Fulanis.

Fulaman198:


Americans are weird, especially some Black Americans. Some of them over-obsess over light-complexion and light-skin. That's why a lot of them for instance are into Ethiopian females because they believe that Ethio females are all light in complexion (which is far from the truth).

He also needs to realise that there is no relation between Fulani and Berbers and Fulani and the Horn really. Yes, there are similar phenotypes but culturally besides Islam, we are different people.

This obsession is due to slavery unfortunately.

Yes Fulani are different from Horners and they have a very unique look.
Some Fulani are mixed with Berbers just like some are mixed with Hausas and others tribes. So because some are mixed with Berbers, that's why people assume Fulanis are linked to Berbers.

Fulaman198:


I don't know much about him to jump to conclusions as admittedly, I don't know many Black Americans. I only hear of them from time to time when reading articles.

If he truly wants to determine his Fulani blood, he should do a blood test.

He has'nt done a blood test from what I know but he learned fulfulde and has been several times to Guinea. He even adopted a fulani name "bah". I personally think he is a mix of several tribes because you can't be American and just descent from one tribe but Fulani is surely on of them.

Anyway, I talk to you about him because he is really interested in Fulani history but he seems to have an obsession about "light skin Fulani" and how they are closer to Horners or Berbers.

I shouldnt be suprised because American are obsess with skin's color and Horn Africa, plus he is member of the nation of islam.

Fulaman198:


Yes, i have heard of him, isn't he American?

He is but because he looks Fulani, he thinks he is Fulani from Fouta Djallon. He wrote a book about how some Fulani from Guinea were brought to South Carolina in America or another place I dont remember.

What do you think of him ?

Fulaman198:


Kai!! Yah that's correct. However what's funny is that Christianity has nothing to do with Judaism, they are quite different religions and many Nigerians don't understand that.

I can kind of understand the correlation between Arabs and many other African groups that practise Islam because well as you know Arabic is an Afro-Asiatic language like Hausa, Ngas, Somali, Bade, Zaar, Bole, Gidar, Buduma, Tamasheq, etc. etc. However with Yoruba, Igbo, etc. there is no relation to the middle east like you said.

The Fulani language Fulfulde is classified to be in the same language group as Serer and Wolof of Senegambia. So with that too, there is no relation to the middle east.

@Fulaman198
Do you know Elijah Shabazz ?

tooco:
i dont think there's any document saying majority of AA's originate from the igbos.I think its common 4 ppl to think so because igbo look different from other ppl of lower west african countries like ghana ,benin,ivory coast and the yorubas of nigeria.Seriously i think u look more yoruba than igbo and you are beautiful

What is special about Igbo look ? I'm sorry I dont think this is the reason plus Igbo dont look different compare to others.

m0rena35:



I will have my brothers do my fathers line and I'll do my mothers. I know its a stretch but I am willing to accept what I can get, I know I am West African, but to know more would be amazing!

Yes it's better than nothing but I dont want you to expect a lot from that. Many dna companies exploit the frustration of the African Americans.

Dont forget a lof of slaves were brought from the Congo and another country in Central Africa so I'd say West/Central Africa.

You sure are African descendant but sure not just 1 tribe. You shoud embrace being a mixed of several tribes, I know it's easy to say.
Sometimes I think we should all just embrace about being African rather than being from this tribe or another and I speak as an African born in Europe.

You have a very interesting project about moving to Africa, if I were you I'll do some research about the countries I might be interested in and visit them.

m0rena35:
I have heard I look Igbo but I don't really know, I have seen Nigerians that favor me, but I am not sure if their tribe. I am getting a DNA test that goes back generation to generation of my mothers mothers mothers line. I hope to find answers with the test, because I KNOW I am WEST AFRICAN, but that's not enough for me, I need to know where my bloodlines came from, its very important to me to find peace living and being brought up in this horrible country. (usa)

But anyway, what do you guys think??

Hi

You are probably mixed with several tribes like most of African Americans so it's very hard to tell.

Is that possible for you take to take both autosomal dna test and mitochondrial dna test (mother to mother).
I'm telling you because the mitochondrial dna test you want to take is only one ancestor, it's not significant at all, it' like 1 ancestor among 1000 ancestors.

Anyway, hope you find what you want.

VomeSchakleton:


Changes a lot. But I don't think you can use that as evidence for the "darkness" of arabs is what I'm saying since his mother was black. Usually such babies can go either way.

I'm not using Bilal as the only one evidence, of course babies can go very dark !!! I was just giving an example and how it's interesting Bilal being half arab is rarely mentionned, they dont hide stuff at random.
Many arabs were described as dark skin included some of the Prophet(saws)'family members. Even today, South Yemenites are very dark skin, we dont need to do some research to realize that.
As Fulaman said, arabs of today are mixed with persian blood and others.

VomeSchakleton:


This is all very interesting but I think they called him that because his mother was a black slave.

Yes but the fact his father was an arab is a very important information, it changes everything

Fulaman198:


I have read something like that before in regards to Somalia and the "Berbere" peoples. It would make sense as you know since Afro-Asiatic languages COME from East Africa and not the middle east. Amharic, Hausa, Ngas, Tamasheq, Somali, Tigriniya, etc. etc. are all Afro-Asiatic languages as is Arabic and Hebrew. So since we know that Afro-Asiatic languages come from East Africa and east Africans look a lot like us, then it's safe to say that original Arabic and Hebrew speakers were also possibly black.

I have actually spoken to a white Berber before and he said the same thing you said. I didn't want to put him down, but he agreed that Berbers were originally black so I didn't say anything to make him feel "less Berber".

Waou he at least admitted Berbers are originally black, surprising, it's very rare !

See how Bilal ibn Rabah (May peace be upon him) is always referred as the abyssinian slave but we rarely heard his father was actually arab. Bilal was described as very dark skin, handsome with a beautiful voice. How can he be very dark skin with an arab father, well because original arabs were dark skin black people like Ethiopians.
Now if this information is spread all over, the white arabs theory will fall down but they know the truth.

Fulaman198:


Correct, amongst these Saharan black African ethnic groups, also exist the Kanuri (or the Beri/Zaghawa I guess the Toubou can also be included), the Nubians, Hausa, etc.

Many Berber groups are actually black and how they are considered white today I don't know. Examples are the Gourara in Algerie, the Siwa in Egypt, Kel-Tamasheq (Touaregs), etc. In my experience, the most pure Berbers are the ones living in the mountains segregated from everyone else. If you look at them, they look more black than white.

Another thing, the whites calling themselves Berbers are not true Berbers. These "Berbers" are the ones living on the Mediterranean coast and are heavily mixed with Mamluk, Turk, Greek and Roman ancestry.

I dont know the Kanuri at all so thanks.
To me too Original Berbers are black. They are considered White because some of them are mixed with Hassaniyas Arabs, we call them Moors.
Those White Berbers also descent from White slaves (there was million of whites slaves between 16 an 19 centuries but we never heard about that). They dont have so much about Turk ancestry because Turk brought a lot of people from the slaves countries (Romania, Bulgaria, etc...).
When you say to White Berbers they descent from White Slavrs, they dont like that at all, they'll say no our skin's color has nothing to do with it, we are white because of the climate, Berbers have always been white there was a study about it , etc, etc...but when it concerns Black Berbers, all of sudden they are all slaves descendants.

Apparently, Berbers are originally from Somalia. There was a place in Somalia called The Berberland. They have also the same EB1B1B gene.
But now some false studies say the first North African male was white, etc....

Fulaman198:


Tooroobe are native to Senegal, what are you saying. They are named after Fouta Tooro which comprises both Senegal and Mauritania.

We Fulani in Nigeria have numerous clans more than 20. Like the Kesu'en, Mbororo'en, Etc etc. The Toroobe (like Baaba Maal) are numerous and mainly today exist in Fouta Tooro as fishermen.

We are West African, we are not Ethiopians nor Syrians (that's even more ridiculous). We lived and inhabited North West Africa and have been in the West African region for a minimum of 10,000 years.

I agree with you.
Fulanis have always been in the West but also in the North, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia even Lybia.
They lived also in the Sahara with Berbers and others black African tribes like Soninkes. Arabs have arrived really later in the Sahara.
As the climate went dry and due to some tribal conflicts, black African tribes went down to the South.

Sometimes I laugh when I hear about the sahara's occidental conflict between Morocco and Algeria. They act like Sahara belongs to Berbers and Arabs but historically speaking Sahara belongs to Saharian Black African tribes.

Today match Ethipia vs Algeria, how funny Horns Africans are not black : https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1179979952026621

GorkoSusaay:

Yes, Tukulor are like Toronkawa in Hausaland, before Dan Fodio. Except that all of its members do not have a Fulani ancestry, but share Islam, Fulani culture and a sedentary life, as culture.


I agree that Aidara and Amar are among the most famous Moorish names, but it's because they are fairly recent/popular. Aidara denotes a descendant of the Prophet while Amar are Zenaga Berbers (Idaw al Hajj). But some "Tukulor" last names are much older. They date from the Sharr Buba War.
The Sissibé ("Sy" in Souyouma (Podor) are descendants of Shams Eddine Sy, an "Arab" according to tradition but more likely a Moor. The Lidoubé ("Ly" also claim descent from Jamly, an "Arab" but a Moor, more likely. It's not evident because those families have intermarried with local populations for 500 years. They are not any different in complexion from others.
I am from Fouta-Toro and my great grandmother was a Sy, and have many cousin with "Ly" as last names.

I have my grandfather's brother saying their first male ancestor is from Irak, he wrote a book about it, now many members of my family believe it while elders people know that's story is not true. My dada was like, you are African be proud to be African.
It's like some people claiming to be cherif while they are not. There was a study about understanding why some muslim African tribes say they descent from Arabs just like North African claiming to be Arabs, that was very interesting

Baaballiyo:
Thanks @curi00 and Garkosusaay.
@Garkosusaay That means the Tukulors value religion (Islam) above anything. They prefer being Muslims above being anything else. I never heard of the word Tukulor and Haalpuularaen before I joined this forum/thread that's why am confused but now am gradually getting enlightenment, here in North West Nigeria (Part of the Old Sokoto Empire) we only know of Fulani (Fula) and the only subgroup we know are the Mbororo'en. Did the word "Torodbe" mean anything.

You're welcome !!

We learn stuff everyday, it's very interesting to know different African tribes and ours African histories in general

GorkoSusaay:

Yes, Tukulor are like Toronkawa in Hausaland, before Dan Fodio. Except that all of its members do not have a Fulani ancestry, but share Islam, Fulani culture and a sedentary life, as culture.


I agree that Aidara and Amar are among the most famous Moorish names, but it's because they are fairly recent/popular. Aidara denotes a descendant of the Prophet while Amar are Zenaga Berbers (Idaw al Hajj). But some "Tukulor" last names are much older. They date from the Sharr Buba War.
The Sissibé ("Sy" in Souyouma (Podor) are descendants of Shams Eddine Sy, an "Arab" according to tradition but more likely a Moor. The Lidoubé ("Ly" also claim descent from Jamly, an "Arab" but a Moor, more likely. It's not evident because those families have intermarried with local populations for 500 years. They are not any different in complexion from others.
I am from Fouta-Toro and my great grandmother was a Sy, and have many cousin with "Ly" as last names.

What you said about Aidara and Amar are correct, my grandmother is Aidara and many of my cousins are Sy. Ly and Sy are tuculor names just like Fall, tall.
Some North Africans wear Aidara, Amar as family names even North Africans jews but never Ly, Sy, etc...because thoses ones are not of moorish descent.
Many Africans traditions said they descent from Arabs but that's not true.

GorkoSusaay:


I think those with the last names "Sy", "Ly", "Hann" are of moorish descent and not Takruri. These last names are fairly recent and date from the Sharr Buba warr (1645-1675). Those with the last name "Sall", "Dia"...etc are more Takruri. And althoguh Fulani, they are borne by the descendants of the dynasties that ruled part of Fouta, before the advent of Koly.
To the previous poster, Toucouleur/Tukulor are those that were sedentary, muslim and adopted the Fulbe culture. Takrur is a name used by men literate in Arabic originally. Before the Torodo revolution in 1776, Fouta-Toro was ruled by a Fulani dynasty who were nominally muslim, much like pre Dan-Fodio Hausaland. In this context, Toucouleur/Tukulor distinguished themselves from the Fulani dynasty, by their strict adherence to religion. The fact that many other mallams from other part of Senegal settled in Fouta-Toro following the revolution, became Fulanized in culture strengthened the distinction. Toucouleur/Tukulor used to mean Muslim, of Fulani culture, and sedentary. Now it is not much distinct from "Pullo" although many Tukulor have Moorish, Wolof, Serer and Fulani ancestry. The unifying factor is the religion and the culture, hence "Haalpulaaren".

Those names are not of moorish descent at all. Moorish names are very famous in Senegal like Aidara or Amar. There is some suspicious about the origin of Tekrur. For the rest, you are partially right

Baaballiyo:

Mi yetti.

But, Useni What Traits, Habits or Behaviour makes one a Wodaabe, bc it's on this tread I know of them (Wodaabe) but I do know the Mbororo'en we use to host them in our district twice yearly when they travel from and back to Niger Republic.

And about the Tukulors, do they have thesame ancestry/blood with the other Fulani Groups ? And they just abandon the Nomadic culture or do they have a different ancestry/blood ? They just adopted the Fulfulde and forget their Language.

There is 2 groups of tukulors, the one who descent from the kingdom of tekrur with sy, ly as family names for example and the other who is the result of fulani, serer and others tribes but especially fulani and serer. In Senegal, they are all consider fulani because they speak the language and have adopted the culture. I have many tukulors on my family, we can see the one who look fulani and the other who look serer. We often say "he is tukulor so he is fulani it's the same". Finally, as fulanis are among theirs ancestors, they are fulanis by blood and language.

alanmwene:

What wrong with being black?Black is color like any other color and it is the most beautiful color of skin.The funny thing is that,it is always Africans who are into this obsession with light skin.When you date a white girl she never care whether you are dark-skinned or light-skinned.Actually they prefer very dark-skinned Africans!But black boys and girls are the most light-skin obsessed people in the world.It boils down to insecurities:They don't feel comfortable with their own skin!
The fulanis who are light-skinned are the ones who are descendants of arabs.The same goes for Somalis coz the original Somalis are among the darkest people you can get in Africa.

I kind of agree with you but I dont think his comment was about to put dark skin people down and he precises "Nobody ever judged africa based on skin color until now", etc...
You know original arabs are dark skin people, just look at yemenites. Fulanis are old people.