₦airaland Forum

Emmanystone:
I see.

Okay can we go back and trade experiences?

I believe in YHWH. I believe he created the universe in Six days.

I believe he created Man who sinned and brought woe on himself.

I believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

I believe in his name.

I believe he died for those sins Man committed and broke grip that sin had on Man. I believe he died, resurrected and ascended into heaven and his coming back to rapture his own.

I believe in Afterlife and i believe in Hellfire.

What did you believe in before now?

I said I believed the things you presently believe in.

Emmanystone:
Who said i don't know Him? Or you mean to say i don't see Him with my optical eyes(?)

Pls try to differentiate between knowledge and sight.

What do you know about Jesus? Do you know where he is at the moment? Do you know what he looks like? Do you know what his voice sounds like? Can you recognize him of you see him? How did you get to know him?

Emmanystone:
Who were you? Let's trade epiphanies.

I believed in the things you currently believe in and reasoned just like you do.

hopefulLandlord:
lol, haven't you observed Catholics are either Christians or not based on the agenda he wants to push?

. I've called him out on that as well.

KingEbukasBlog:
Christianity is based on the life of Christ . If you don't see Christ as a deity but as a human like Confucius , you can have an atheistic stance on the religion .

You really don't have anything new to offer I can see that clearly .

Shut up and stop lying shamelessly. There is nothing like christian atheist. A christian is someone who believes in Jesus, his divinity and his message of salvation. Anybody that doesn't isn't a christian. How can you not see Jesus as a diety and still be a christian? Explain to me.

hopefulLandlord:
I don't believe a thinking person can read the article and claim the author presupposed at any point there, I think he just misconstrued some of the rebuttals by the authors as claims on their own meanwhile all the author set out to do is show how fallacious the arguments are rather than making any claim of his own

I tire oo. That's why I said he didn't read it.

KingEbukasBlog:
I read it thats where I saw his presuppositions .

Haba sir ! Na wa o .

But he never presupposed anything na.

hopefulLandlord:
lol, what a strawman!

he never even presupposed anything, the only one presupposing was Craig lol, Why are theists comprehension ability so pathetic?

He just gave a rebuttal without reading the link.

KingEbukasBlog:
The argument is an ontological one not based on epistemology i.e by the nature of intentional states of consciousness , not by its origin or how it came to be . Again , you don't understand the argument .

The argument is baseless. Since it has been shown/theorized that intentional states of consciousness can come from a source that is not God then any argument linking it to God is baseless.

KingEbukasBlog:
The writer presupposes that everything is made of matter and that consciousness is a biological function which requires objects then turns around to accuse someone of the same thing he did . Why are atheists inept at logic ?

Where is the logic in a believing that the creator of the universe sacrificed himself unto himself so that he can save humans from some elusive damnation?

KingEbukasBlog:
This is not a rebuttal to what I posted . Please read again and stop the red herrings . Thank you .

Why is it not a rebuttal and what is the red herring?

We have other theories that explain the origins of intentional states of consciousness that have nothing to do with God. So that destroys your argument that it points to any God. You can not even use God alone and explain anything about the origin of intentional states of consciousness, how it functions and the mechanism behind it.

I try always to cut your endless sophism and get to the real point. You guys always want dwell on endless philosophical rigmaroles that will allow you room to be dancing around boxing the air.

ScepticalPyrrho:
True.

You can say you believe in Santa Claus but don't know him.

Just as believers believe in Jesus but don't know him.

KingEbukasBlog:
This is why I said you understand the argument . You are materialist right? Materialists and Naturalists generally deny the existence of intentional states of consciousness - that's why the premise holds true - because agreeing to this will only point to the existence of an immaterial ultimate mind and utterly demolishing their thoughts that all things are made of matter and they all came to being through only natural processes . The second premise agrees that intentional states of consciousness exist because right now I'm thinking of Genghis Khan of Mongol destroying Khwarezm empire and forcing the Shar Muhammed 11 into being a derelict . Then of course , the corollary is to affirm the existence of this immaterial ultimate mind being the reason why mental states which are immaterial exist since the first and second premises are true .

The ability to intentional think about things only shows that humans posses the ability. It doesn't point to any ultimate mind. Saying that it does is only an assumption that lack any foundation and basis.

Your ability to think about anything or anybody only shows that you have the ability, it doesn't point to any ultimate mind. Can you demonstrate any ability of this ultimate mind? Can you show it at work independently?
How can you make the statement without any foundation at all, and I asked you to state what even led you to make that statement?

There are many other credible theories about how intentional states of the mind can be achieved that do not need a God as any part of their explanations.

Theories that indicate evolutionary mechanisms by which intentional states of mind may have been brought into existence have been put forward and they do not require any God as it's source.

If I ask you to use God ALONE and explain the origin, function and mechanism behind the intentional state of the mind you will NOT be able to do that. So why are you filling the gap with God and making unfounded assumptions about it?

KingEbukasBlog:
Artificial intelligence is evidence for artificial intelligence and we cannot deduce from the nature of AIs that it was created by a mind
Unearthed pots , plates , spoons , idols in an area by Archaeologists isn't evidence for human settlement in an area but evidence for pots , spoons etc .

This is why atheists are very poor at logic .

We known that humans have a mind and we also known that himans create artificial intelligence, we also know that humans create pots, spoons, idols etc.These are things that we KNOW for a fact.

We also know that humans created all the ideas of Gods they chose to worship and ascribe to this ideas many different things. Just as you are ascribing a mind to your own God idea.

What we don't know is if any God exist on its own and has a mind. No God has ever demonstrated that it exist own it's own independently without human input and shown that it has a mind.

The human mind has different explanations for it existence, some say it was created by their various God while others say it evolved over time. No one has been able to provide irrefutable evidence for their various hypothesis.

You are only showing me what you belief and not providing evidence because your foundation is empty.

That is why theist are very good at accepting mythology and folklore.

KingEbukasBlog:
Why do you atheists tell lies all the time ? Where have I said this ? Christian theism portrays best the nature of the creator - this is my view . Why do you lack common understanding? Just why ?

Don't you believe that the creator of the universe is Jesus?

obinna58:
Ebuka's logic

KingEbukasBlog: The universe has a cause and its cause is its creator thereby Christianity is true

. I just tire for them.

The funny thing is 5 years ago I was just like Emmanystone. Funny how time and knowledge changes everything.

Emmanystone:
And yet you are here haggling me for believing God who said Man is made in his likeness which is consciousness?

If you call God a liar, then you must tell me where it came from.

When and where did God tell you personally that man is made in his likeness? Did you see his likeness to confirm that man is made in his likeness?

Segedinho:
Israel is a country just like other countries filled with human wt diffrent beliefs n doctrines. Using dat as a yardstick z quite lame n pathetic..... As n atheist i blv u don't believe n any form of spirituality Good/evil..if so y do we still v ritualist n how do provide fame n wealth 2 people...

Bro think deeply.. U don't even need d bible 2 blv d existence of God.

So ritualit provide fame and fortune for humans? Where is your ifferutable evidence for this assertion?

OLAADEGBU:
It is an indirect salvation issue as well as an authority issue. Faulty fallible human interpretations vs God's final authority.

Scientificevidence that shows the universe is 6000 years old is what you said youll provide m where is it? Or were you lying as always?

Emmanystone:
You are being more childish than ever.


Can you go back a little and try answering some of the questions i asked?

Stop strawmanning pls.

How did consciousness get into you?

Answerthe simple question. When and where did God tell you the things you are telling me about him?

Emmanystone:
How did your consciousness come about, pls. Stop the childishness. You creating impression in those who read you.

I don't know. Nobody has been able to fully show or demonstrate where consciousness came from.

Emmanystone:
He has conciousness, i have conciousness which He said is His likeness in me.

He told you when and where?

Emmanystone:
What is your evidence that He doesn't exist?

You won't be telling me about him if he exist. He'll do that himself.

Joagbaje:
Being religious doesn't mean wired to organized religion . It's a self belief and quest for God

Men are naturally wired to be superstitious and not to be religious.

Emmanystone:
So, that rejoicing is what you think is YHWH benefit if you are convinced He exists?

Wow, Dalaman

Please stay an unbeliever you hear? Let YHWH die of grief and sorrow.

Accordingto the tale, there is rejoicing in heaven when a sinner is saved. Clearly if we are to agree with the tale then it means it's something that Yahweh and his Angels in heaven truly want, else why will they rejoice over it?

UyiIredia:
In other word there must be a material mechanism that gods mind depends on? whixh makes no sense because his mind would depend on matter to exist and so He cant be God. Your materialism stinks.

Your hasty and empty conclusion.No one talked about anything material. The mechanism though which God's mental state can be measured is what?

Emmanystone:
Lolzz. If the intentional state of consciousness can exist independent of God, Scientists would have created a conscious human without taking any tissue or cell from an existing human.

Your evidence that your God created human is what?

Emmanystone:
We were having this discussion in a thread, you ran away, but here you are making it seem like you are making valid points.

I asked you one simple question, but you jumped over it like you didn't see it.

Here it is again, with all the things around you which YHWH has put in place to convince you that He exists, but you remained unbelieving, (As you rightly pointed out that some people will not be convinced even when they see a beheaded person come back to life). [b] of what benefit will your conviction and believe that God exists is it to YHWH?

What are the things that Yahweh has put to convince anybody of his existence?

In other words, what will God gain if you believe in Him? Pls give one reason why you think YHWH needs you to be convinced about His existence.

Shalom.

Because a cirding to the tale that is what Yahweh wants. Is it not the bible that says that there is rejoicing in heaven when a sinner is saved?

JackBizzle:
I will put 30 billion in your account if Ebuka gives a straight answer.

He won't. He prefers running around chasing his long tail.

KingEbukasBlog:
I still don't know why anyone would take the guy seriously. Anyway, you are an atheist so his shallowness will appeal to you .

All this statements without even watching the debate and listening to how he deconstructed Craigs arguments abi?

This is one reason why I don't discuss topics like this with a Nigerian atheist. He is only good at dismissing arguments and making irrational rants and that's all . If I should go through the stress of explaining this thing and you don't give me a reasonable response, God will punish you for making me waste my time . And I'm not playing.

You prefer foreign atheist that will dance to your sophist whims abi?

Ogbeni na wah oò. Why the serious vexation na ? My argument is very simple, just because mental states exists, there’s no reason to attribute that to being derived from a diety without any supporting evidence at all. It's very simple.

KingEbukasBlog:
I dey wait sir

I'll check it when am free. I saw the debate on freeratio like 4 years ago so will look it up. Just searched and it gave me so many pages that's because I forgot Aman' s first name. Would have been much easier or if I know the title of the debate.

I already explained the foundation of the argument and why it points to an ultimate mind , God . Mental states are immaterial so it's redundant to reiterate to that God Itself as an ultimate mind is immaterial

This is nonsense. You have NOT established that mental states come from an ultimate mind. You have also NOT established that mental states can not come from other sources at all.