₦airaland Forum

DeSepiero:
Religious intolerance is one of the many problems facing Nigeria today. We often see cases where certain groups of people feel that their religion is superior to the other, or that theirs is true while the other is false. In extreme cases, groups resort to violence in a bid to make their point (e.g Boko Haram, Religious conflicts in Kaduna etc).

In Nigeria, government has always promoted religious activities in one way or the other. Also many conflicts in the country since its inception have had some sort of religious bearing.

Religious tolerance involve our ability to accept, respect and coexist peacefully with other individuals of different religious inclinations.

Do you think secularism holds some prospects in proffering solutions to this problem?

Your honest and civil inputs will be valuable

Cc: Seun , johnydon22, budaatum, kingebukasblog, OtemAtum, Dalaman, Felixomor,
HopefulLandlord, THT80, Vaxx

Sercularism that is devoid of fanatism and dogmatism will help mitigate the evil effects of religious intolerance so long as it is all inclusive and promotes enlightenment.

butterflyl1on:
Who doesn't? The people who follow butterflylion are not same as those who follow butterflyl1on are they?

You've started again. Remember when you were caught liking and sharing the post you were reminded by Jonny that buterflyl1on was just created newly and doesn't have any followers. The moniker still isn't following anybody from its profile while butterflylion is following only 4 people.

Who are those butterflyl1is following?

butterflyl1on:
Really? Butterflyl1on liking butterflylion is now 3 other monikers?

I don't care if it's 1,2 or 3. But seriously who likes and shares his/her comment here?

butterflyl1on:
Ramblings of a man child. Go through my posts and borrow some likes from them. I have over 600 likes from just 2 comments alone. Maybe I should log in with my other 600 extra monikers and like my own comments.

When dunces speak they actually think they are making sense.

But you've been caught liking and sharing your comments na.

hopefulLandlord:
why am I still being mentioned on this thread? pls nobody should mention me here

and if the likes and shares on my post bothers someone, that someone can just log in with his 3 extra monickers to like and share his post as he's been doing

What's going on here? Vaxx are you accusing him falsely?

Ericsunday619:
my boss

My pesin. Wetin dey happen?

butterflyl1on:
Ignorance isn't a thing to be proud of. There are Christian atheists

Sure, there are human extraterrestrial robots.

Ebuka and his ridiculous ways. Christian atheism indeed.

Later he'll start shouting goal post shifting. . Simple read and comprehend you can not.

Graycoder:
Lol, I posted Vitalism as science? Really? Have you read the post again? Go and read it and come back to say sorry. Else I'll post screenshots of my post, your quote too. You have started to show the usual habits of typical religious people who lose arguments cheaply.

You see, I have stopped posting long epistles because I have realized how pathetic you seem. You are still here defending your mistake.

He's the resident spinner. Why he is still arguing over his mistakes is what I fail to understand, after showing him your initial statement he is still dowant want to understand you but too much in a hurry to make noise. Na wah ooo.

Graycoder:
I have seen his confusion

He is gradually decending into the Felixmoron level by reading without understanding.

Graycoder:
And yet the goal post shiftings are responses to your posts. Look for a better and responsible way to gain points. You have been crying goal shifting in every post you've made.

So in your own world Vitalism is Philosophy? Lol, you should always check for meanings of words before you use them.

Go check for the meaning of vitalism and come back.

And can you even imagine, you don't even know the meaning of vitalism! I give up on you.

What have you been arguing since??

He's reading without understanding. That's what happens when you are too much in a hurry to make noise.

He still doesn't understand the point you are trying to make, read his last post.

butterflyl1on:
Simple observation would have shown you that I am deliberately avoiding responding to your posts which are directed at me. You move in a circular motion and shift goal posts at will and randomly. So from experience I know you are a waste of effort.

I would have simply gutted your post but nothing I would say here that you haven't been told before even in more eloquent ways. So seek your answers elsewhere since no answer is sufficient for you and had not been for the past 9 years you have been posing as an atheist.

Thanks for the attention sha.

Shut up Mr noise maker. Seems I just touched a nerve.

So God is a fact with all the acclaimed abilities and yet it is a self confessed mentally ill person that is making his case for it abi? Only a God that lives inside your head and the head of other believers like you will allow that. You've been trying to defend and make a case for this God with all the claimed abilities for how long now on nairaland? How many atheist here have you been able to convince? What has been your success rate? Why will a God with all the alleged power and abilities that WANTS to be in a relationship with humans rely on a total FAILURE like you to ever make its case for it? Only a God that lives inside your head and no where else will do that.

So it's Yahweh the God of the Jews that you happened to be indoctrinated with since childhood that is a fact abi? Where did you keep Allah and Brahma? Your akuya mentality is truly entertaining.

butterflyl1on:
God is a fact and you can take that to the bank

Firstly which of the Gods is a "fact"? How have your disproved the existence of the other Gods and established the one your were indoctrinated with since childhood and shown that it is a "fact"? Why should any one accept your nonsensical claims just because you are making them?

Secondly if your God is a fact then why are you the one making his case for it? You've been arguing and trying to make a case for something you claim is a fact. Why don't you allow this fact to make its case by itself since it is a fact, remember this God that you claim is a fact according to you exist, besides existing, it is all powerful, can do things for itself aand also WANTS people not to only know about its existence but also WANTS people to be in a personal relationship with him so that they can attain salvation if they engage in this personal relationship with him.

If all the above is true then why are you the one making a case for this God as described here on nairaland and trying to show that he exist? Why will such a God with all this claimed abilities ever allow someone like you to ever make a case for it if it is a fact that exist outside your head or of it is alive and exist outside your head. ONLY a God that lives in your head and the head of other believers like you will do that which your God is doing.

butterflyl1on:
why do you insist on goal post shifting at all costs?

You began talking about science and God and creation (be it real or not) and how science has allegedly proven that the earth is not a good place as stated in "the holy book ".

Now you are talking about a two way door in communication with God (prayer)

What has prayer got to do with the physical affecting or causing a change to the spiritual origin of the physical (which is my position)?

We are talking about the spiritual affecting the physical per creation and not prayer. Prayer only enables the spiritual to affect the physical (which is Still a one way door when it comes to effect) but not a two way door when it comes to the physical affecting the creative spirituality which brought the physical to reality.

You have been making extremely unintelligent comments all through your posts and I have tried repeatedly to call you to order but you seem set on that course. I should have stopped a while back seeing the obvious goalpost shifting attempts you attempted but why do that when conversing with an obviously simple minded fellow?

Spiritual affecting the physical eh? Why should any body takes this nonsense fiction you are spewing seriously? Should we accept this nonsense fiction of yours because you are saying it or because you have evidence to back up your mythical tale?

butterflyl1on:
Again this thread is not about your goal post shifting positions about credence of any religion. As much as you would want this to be so it is not. So I beg to decline your subtle offer to help you derail.

So what if people are leaving atheism? How does that stop the world religions from.being man made mythologies is my question. Move along if you can't provide answers to the question.

butterflyl1on:
Vacuums are meant to be filled. Any absence of one thing means something else has to replace it. This thread is not about any of Christianity or Hinduism or Taoism etc getting credence (stop trying to shift the goalpost as always)

It's simply a credible empirically submitted report about the massive decline of atheism worldwide. If people are dumping it this quickly it simply shows that :

1. People naturally do not want to be associated with stupid things for long

2. People are prone to change and often times would prefer better to worse

3. Self examination forces change. In this case, self examination exposes an emptiness in atheism and since everyone feels a need for love (which atheism often denies) they would gravitate towards the light and away from the cold darkness.

4. Atheism is a transit point do is extremely temporal.

Long words that mean nothing. Even if people are leaving atheism means nothing, because it has nothing to do with the veracity of its claims. Islam is projected to be the religion with the highest number of adherents in the world in a few facades to come, does that mean that Islam is true?

Hindusim is also expected to increase, what has that got to do with its claim about Brahma?

How does the increase in the number of christians disprove that christianity isn't based on unproven mythology?

butterflyl1on:
You assume there is a two way door and that is a wrong premise

The spiritual causes the physical to be. And since the spiritual caused the physical without being affected itself it clearly shows a one way door. (you can call it a catalyst).

Why should any body believe this nonsense? Because you said it?

So what if atheism is in massive decline? How does that that give credence to the mythology that is Islam, hindusim, Buddaism, Taoism and Christianity?

hopefulLandlord:
so let me get this straight

he decides to abandon his own thread because of a single atheist when the post in question wasn't even directed at him? what about you? what about other atheists that have raised points?

its obvious he hasn't been discussing with atheists before and thought it would be a walk in the park when he thought about morals

You've nailed it bro. Was just looking for the slightest opportunity to abandon ship.

hopefulLandlord:
forget abeg, OP self no get point, he was already looking for an excuse to abandon his own thread and "found" it

Seriously oo. My thoughts exactly.

butterflyl1on:
Abeg was I part of this argument on this thread? Using me as an excuse to Justify white indoctrination of atheism is pathetic

Which excuse and which white indoctrination? Pls go and take your drugs and make sure that your mental illness is fully cured. Your imaginations is now getting out of hand.

A known plagiarist like you has no right to accuse another person of plagiarism. Get that into your mentally deranged head.

THT80:
I don't give a damn whether butteflylion has been caught plagiarizing before. I don't even know who that is. What I am concerned about however, is the fact that I was engaging in an argument with someone who was borrowing his responses, verbatim, from foreign forums, and as a result of this I have decided to abandon this argument, because I can't afford to waste my time replying empty skulls who can't think for themselves and formulate their own ideas.

Stop this nonsense talk as if that isn't what most christians here do. Even the guy that showed that he plagiazed the words is a known plagiarist himself but does that stop us atheist from engaging him?

butterflyl1on:
Throwing me into a discussion I was not part of is simply pathetic. He asked for his copy and paste to be exposed and I offered that to him.

How e take pain you? Does it change the fact that he copied verbatim from a FOREIGN website to defend a NIGERIAN argument?

White man atheism

White man indoctrination!

Still shamelessly trying to save face abi? Yeye plagiarist. When we were arguing and you decided to copy a white man's argument from a foreign website and paste it here on a Nigerian website as your own nko? What does that make you? An akuya abi?

Keep spewing your nonsense.

butterflyl1on:
so I am now his excuse?

So I obviously indoctrinated him

Yet atheism is not an indoctrination

Is this your stupid and lame attempt at saving face?

You can't be his excuse and you can't indoctrinate him in any way. No body will ever say that. It remains your own making.

The point is that a plagiarist like you has no right to point fingers at another for doing that which you have been caught doing.

butterflyl1on:
You ain't seen nothing yet

They are being indoctrinated by the white man on white mans atheism.

He hasn't seen your own share of plagiarism abi? Yeye dey smell.

THT80:
Shame on you. I'm abandoning this argument since it's clear that atheists on Nairaland can't formulate their own opinions and have to resort to plagiarising the online posts of foreign atheists. How can I engage in a debate with people who borrow all their retorts from online websites?

You are pathetic!!

Cc felixomor

Butterflylion himself has been caught plagiarizing someone's work on another thread, if you have no arguments to make then you can quietly leave. It's not as if the christians here aren't excellent plagiarist.

butterflyl1on:
This online

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/crossexamined/not_even_hitler_can_help_this_christian_argument/

Copy and paste argumentator

Will you keep quiet. As if you've not been caught copying and pasting before. Yimu there.

hopefulLandlord:
Maybe this discussion can be directed to this question: How do we OBJECTIVELY resolve moral dilemmas? I define a moral dilemma as a set of facts that present a situation in which, regardless of which choice we make, we violate some recognized moral principle.

You know the common example:
>Do I lie to the Nazis to save the Jews I have hidden in my basement from capture (and likely death)? (Dilemma: Do I tell the Truth, or save a Life?)

But also consider this:
>Do I keep quiet (or lie) about the government's illegal domestic spying so to protect national security? (Truth, or the "Greater Good"?)

Another one:
>Do I perform an abortion to save the mother's life? (Save a life, or save a life?)

Or this:
>The practice of medical triage?

One would likely say the Nazi dilemma is easy to resolve--life trumps truth; but is life over truth an objective standard? In the domestic spying scenario, is it an objective truth that the greater good takes precedence over truth, or vice-versa? What about killing one innocent life to save another? (What is the objective standard?)

I submit that these dilemmas are resolved, not by objective truths, but by the facts of the situation (Situational Ethics!!); and the facts we find to be salient are those we are culturally conditioned to deem as such according to our shared values (Cultural Relativism!).

Thoughts?

The part in bold sums it up and that has always been my position.

hopefulLandlord:
OP says atheism is dangerous because atheists use subjective judgements, meanwhile NOBODY has been able to prove Morality is not subjective; every theist just screams "morality is objective!!!" but tell them to prove it and they would start stammering

Stammering and crying.

THT80:
We've all heard of them. Some of us have encountered them a couple of times online trying to proselytize us away from our beliefs, using their so called tools of reason and empirical evidence. They call themselves atheists - a lucky set of rational humans that have been able to unshackle themselves from the chains of religion and from the irrational belief in the existence of a God.

Although the arguments of atheists for the most part are compelling, they don't seem to provide a tenable or compelling argument in their favor on the subject of morality. They are of the opinion that humans don't require religion to answer our moral questions.
This to me doesn't seem like a wise opinion to have, let alone one to organize your life around and expect others to, because if we take the belief in God away from our lives, then upon what foundation do we erect our moral values? If we obliterate all forms of religion, where then do we derive our morals from? The common answer atheists provide to such a question is an answer that I consider to be potentially dangerous. Atheists are of the opinion that humans can use the tools of rationality and even science to answer questions that apply to morality.

Irrespective of how varied all religions are, there is a unifing thread that runs through all of them, and this is the explicit acknowledgment that humans were created by a divine being, possess a soul, and have a moral responsibility to uphold the value system endorsed by this divine being or beings, because it affects not just the conscious experience of the individual, but the development or journey of the soul. This is essentially what's at the core of most religions. And although religions differ slightly in their doctrinal prescriptions, they say the same thing on the question of how humans should treat others - a question by which morality is essentially defined by. There is no religion that doesn't have it's core moral values organized around love, selfless service and doing good towards others. And as a result of the fact that adherents of a religion understand that they are morally accountable to their maker, and the decisions that they make affect the development and destination of their souls, they are strongly incentivised to uphold these moral values that in turn positively influence the moral progress of their environment.

Atheists however are faced with a series of moral problems. Since they aren't accountable to any set of divine moral principles, on what basis are they to define an action as right or wrong? I regard the atheist's position as inherently dangerous because questions of morality become questions of subjective judgements, and subjective judgements tend to be selfish in nature.
If a person doesn't believe in the existence of a divine being that created him, then he isn't morally accountable to such being or any transcendental force whatsoever and hence he is at will to do anything and his actions can be justified on the basis of his own judgements and needs.

Which God made the moral laws marry 4 wives as a muslim man? Which God also made the moral law not to eat pork as a muslim?

Homosexual relationship is no longer immoral in the west, which God made such laws?