₦airaland Forum

prettyprettywow: 1.Because private hospital has to be headed by the owner. which kind reasoning be this?

2. it is not your business to decide if having consultant in other field will affect the patient or not. let the govt and the patient decide that.

3. Don't we have director of public health in the ministry of health? what is his/her functions? And who told you Surgeon-General has to be a Dr?

4.Isn't there already relativity in Nigerian health sector? What level does a Dr start and what level do others start?

5. What is the role of Directors? Don't we all have rights to get to the peak of our careers? why should you allow one group get to Directorate level and prevent others ?

6. You last question is incoherent. I will respond to that when you write coherently.

Thank You

maybe u should go and work in the ministry then and not a teaching hospital if u must be a director! I wonder what u are directing

the last question would be incoherent because u can't understand it probably

the surgeon general in the US is always a doctor , YES, except in the military, remember, Google is ur friend

relativity has newly been signed and sealed by the federal govt so any argument is only a wasted effort with u

I'm concerned about who becomes consultant because my patient's care matters to me unlike u

and I repeat, pls try setting up a private hospital

prettyprettywow: Though you reasoning is somehow, But if I have a private hospital, then I will have to be in charge, if not, I will employee a seasoned administrator to be in charge of the day to day activities while i do the work I was trained to do.. Public hospital is govt hospital, so govt should decide who should head it and not an individual group

ok nau, go set it up, run a hospital indeed!!!

Mogidi: Boko haram will only stop when you people tell it to stop, you created it, and its your patriotic duty to end it.

No need blaming us for your ineptitude in curtailing where the next bomb drops.

Us being who? Are u a government agent or do u own the government all to ur self, the usual Jonathanian excuses for ineptitude

prettyprettywow: Because private hospital has to be headed by the owner. which kind reasoning be this?

so why not they go and own and head private hospitals, since they say they can head government owned ones, so we can see how many patients they have, aren't they all hospitals?

The moment the government gets serious with defeating boko haram, we would see an end to this terrorist acts, why are the army not being well equipped to fight boko haram, why aren't they arresting sponsors or atleast naming them despite arrest of hundreds of suspects,

A lot of stories have been peddled around in the last few days all in an attempt to swing public opinion to either side of the divide, well here are pertinent questions we should ask ourselves

1. There seem to be a heated argument over which group of health workers should head government owned hospitals, how comes there are no contentions over who heads private hospitals.

2. Of what importance is this argument over who becomes a consultant is to the patient and health delivery, I know a consultant physician is supposed to be the knowledgeable doctor that other doctors who are yet to be consultants take difficult cases to, and we feel safer in their hands, would the role of a consultant lab scientist or nurse or pharmacists add value to patient care

3. Why would there be an argument over appointment of a surgeon general who in the united states oversees all public health initiatives and programmes for American citizens while the minister takes care of administration and is not necessarily a medical personnel.

4. What's the salary scale of the various health workers in other countries, within Africa and beyond and is there a relativity amongst the various staff.

5. What would be the role of directors in the hospital, would it benefit the patient.

6. How comes medical doctors who are professors in anatomy and physiotherapy are not regarded as consultants in teaching hospital despite their years of experience but are basically in the academic lines training the younger ones but other experienced staff like lab scientist want to be regarded as consultants.

adeoladrg: Google is still your friend. Consultant pharmacists started are were exclusively in the nursing homes, goan read about the expanded roles of consultant pharmacists in California and other jurisdictions. That consultant don't work in hospitals where they are most useful? Pls spew that phlegm out!

And what would you say about consultant nurses? They don't work in hospitals? Use ur brain!

the medical schools are still open for doctor wannabes, if u''ve got brains as u portend, u would realize u are adding no value to patient care with ur supposed consultant pharmacist, and by the way, have u a asked yourself howcomes this broohaha about consultants and CMDship are only being argued out in government owned hospitals, why don't u go run a private hospital with ur consultant pharmacy or nurse or lab scientist and see if u can sustain the hospital, this is just self serving and has nothingto do service delivery, what's not possible isn't possible, be contented with ur job because there's honour in it all, there's no shortcut to consultancy, and if u 've really got congent points, u wouldn't be so venomous throwinginsults around

adeoladrg: Stupid liar! Biochem, anatomy and physiology is done for 18 months not 3 years. Pathology and pharmacology is also for 18 months not 3 years.


Moreover, it takes about 6-8 years to finish from West African Postgraduate College of pharmacy depending on the discipline. I don't just know the breakdown, Goan sit down oga!

What qualifies u as a consultant pharmacist, go check who the consultant pharmacist is in the United States which your likes readily point at, they work no where near a teaching hospital or anything like a teaching hospital, they specifically work with geriatri patients giving advice on their drug management, u can fool a gullible audience with lies but certainly not us

adeoladrg: Stupid liar! Biochem, anatomy and physiology is done for 18 months not 3 years. Pathology and pharmacology is also for 18 months not 3 years.


Moreover, it takes about 6-8 years to finish from West African Postgraduate College of pharmacy depending on the discipline. I don't just know the breakdown, Goan sit down oga!

Mr Dr hater, doctor wannabe, I said 3 years of clinical as a whole, including pathology and pharmacology, and preclinicals which includes biochemistry, anatomy, physiology lasts for a total of 3 years, stop the envy and be contented with what u are

dalhat14: For those who choose to argue why doctors shouldn't be treated different ly and are quick to point at other countries to wrongly buttress a point, well, here is a run down of salaries of health workers showing relativity in incomes in other countries.....
And as we comment pls, remember Google is our friend and only a click away

USA doctor -$248,075, pharmacist- $110, 339, Nurses- $80,103, Lab scientist- $103, 453, Physiotherapy - $91, 242
UK doctor $101, 736, pharmacist- $88, 368, Nurses- $34, 196, Lab scientists $46, 452, physiotherapy - $40, 157
Canada doctor- $237, 440, pharmacists $159,321, Nurses - $85,315, lab scientist - $115, 682, physiotherapy $95, 965
Australia doctor - $183, 993, pharmacists- $91, 631, Nurses - $80, 579, lab scientist - $98, 926, physiotherapy - $86,897
South Africa doctor - R689,162, Nurses - R289, 294
India -doctor- Rs1,208, 271, Nurses - Rs 676, 108

For those who choose to argue why doctors shouldn't be treated differently and are quick to point at other countries to wrongly buttress a point, well, here is a run down of salaries of health workers showing relativity in incomes in other countries.....
And as we comment pls, remember Google is our friend and only a click away

For those who choose to argue and keep pointing at other countries to make a point why doctors shouldn't be treated differently, frowning at relativity, well here is a run down of the comparison of salaries of different health workers in other countries. judge for yourself......
And as we comment, pls remember Google is your friend and only a click away.......

Marilyn Ogah seem to be more of a politician, always up in arms against GEJ's perceived enemies, intelligence agencies don't make noise the way she does

An incisive article by Ibrahim Toli

After reading through the article by Alli John Adeolu, Chief
Medical Laboratory Scientist of God knows where, I
couldn't help but punch my keyboard in response to his
distortion of facts. There will have been no need for a reply
if it were only for his low quality unreferenced write up.
NMA raised 24 demands, but for reasons best known to
him, he decided to chose only 4.
I think there is no need for me to respond to the jaundiced
comparison of Doctors to either our colonialists/
imperialists or Boko Haram, that will be too childish. If one
finds it difficult to differentiate civility from primitiveness
and started comparing Nigerian Doctors with murderous
groups, then I guess it is a waste of intellectual calorie to
try to reply.
Chief, doctors are not superior to other health workers
because the former spent 6 years in undergraduate school,
sam sam. Professional superiority arises because of
competitive knowledge advantage and nothing else. Even if
you extend the study of medical laboratory science to 10
years, its certificate cannot be equivalent to that of MBBS
because the curriculum differs, their roles differ. It is not a
matter of theology; belief or unbelief.
The FMOH of Nigeria doesn't have directories, but rather
directorates and they are 8 and not at least 5 and they are
not all headed by Doctors. According to Presidential
Committee on a Harmonious Work Relationship Amongst
Health Workers and Amongst Professional Groups in the
Health Sector chaired by Hon. Justice Bello A. Gusau, "By
its approved structure, the Federal Ministry of Health has
eight Departments, namely: Department of Human
Resources; Department of Finance & Accounts;
Department of Planning, Research & Statistics; Department
of Procurement; Department of Hospital Services;
Department of Public Health; Department of Family Health
and the Department of Food & Drugs Services. Of the four
Professional Departments, three are headed by medical
practitioners while one is headed by a health professional
who is not a medical practitioner." Do you propose a
JOHESU to head Hospital Services, Public Health or Family
Health?
Yes the CMD and the CMAC are doctors, but you failed to
mention the latter is a director of clinical services
representing all the clinical departments with a single vote
just like the director of administration, director of Nursing
etc. The CMD is a Doctor because the law said so, you can
always go to court if you are not happy about that. No,
Doctor mustn't head medical lab scientist, but a Doctor
must head clinical laboratory. If you decide to open your
private lab, no Doctor will lord over you, but then he won't
use results.
Truth is Doctors don't hate you guys to have increase in
salary, but their must be relativity otherwise what is the
essence of adding quality to patient care? Wages are paid
based on intellectual input here on earth, I don't know of
other planets. No Sir, thats incorrect, Doctors do not earn
a minimum of N250,000 in Federal Institutions and a very
senior consultant N500,000. Either you didn't see the
circular or you are distorting it. Wouldn't it have been
easier to just reproduce it here and compare CONMESS
and CONHESS, to see who is cheating who?
I want to believe even a junior staff knows salary is
divided in to basic salary and allowances. Federal Ministry
of Education pays lecturer-Doctors basic salary while
Federal Ministry of Health pays them call and specialist
allowance. Does that constitute double salary? You see,
don't dabble in to something you have no knowledge of.
Have you ever read the responsibility of a Consultant? Do
you imagine the fellowship is just for his immediate
environment and his services not required in the periphery?
Please check the geographical radius a consultant is
suppose to rotates.
Since you are not a constitutional lawyer, why don't you
allow a competent court of law interprets what medically
qualified means. Shikenan. You insinuated medically
qualified applies to you, thats delusional. Read the act for
the appointment of CMD again or get a translation.
You carelessly define the word consultant without a single
reference in the hope the gullible and lazy populace wont
crosscheck. Both Advanced learners English dictionary and
Merriam Webster dictionary have two similar definitions
for the word. As per the latter thus;
1. A person who gives professional advice or services to
companies for a fee.
2. A hospital Doctor of the highest rank who is an expert in
a particular area of medicine.
Let me attempt to explain one demand called consultant/
specialist in clinical practice. In summary all doctors have
the basic undergraduate degree called MBBS (Bachelor of
Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery); which of cos currently is a
misnomer since the course covers many specialties apart
from the traditional Medicine and Surgery. In those days
doctors were either physicians or Barbers (Surgeons). Now
after the basic degree, you can divide doctors broadly in to
two; Medical Officers and Consultants/Specialists. In
between you have House Officers/interns and Residents
(Specialists in training). To be a specialist, requires an
average of 6 years in an accredited health institutions.
Ours is not the traditional PhD cos of the complexity of
human diseases and the need for clinical knowledge. Thus
it is a unique training combining theory and clinical skills
at the same time. Example, one cannot have a PhD in
Neurology, in fact its impossible cos of the numerous
neurological conditions afflicting human populace ranging
from infectious, inflammatory, degenerative, neoplastic,
traumatic, metabolic etc with further subdivisions. Another
example, one will attempt to have PhD in a degenerative
disease called Dementia. I say attempt cos its not even
practicable due to its numerous causes. To be a
Neurologist, one must be drilled first in all medical
specialties for at least 24 months and then in human
neurological clinical conditions in the remaining time
including a thesis in one of the entity. The other arm is
Medical Officer who chose not to specialize rather improve
themselves either through academic degrees or just
progressed through conventional civil service. The
hierarchy is thus in descending order; Consultant >
Residents > Medical Officers > House Officers in terms of
professionalism and quality of patient care. Specialists are
suppose to see complicated cases or those with potentials
to cause complications and or cases requiring advance
care; there is no need for a consultant to see controlled
uncomplicated hypertension or diabetes mellitus,
uncomplicated malaria, typhoid, pulmonary tuberculosis
etc. Now is it fair to compare a medical consultant with
someone who did 3 year diploma course with 1-2 year
post basic studies or even that with academic PhD? In the
tertiary hospital, a Consultant is the final refined touch of
any patient management. He owns the patient, leads the
unit, teaches medical students and mentor residents. So if
someone say has an MSc in iron deficiency anaemia and
PhD in hemoglobinopathies (assuming not just theoretical
academic degrees), will he then be appointed as a Senior
Resident and Consultant Hematologist respectively? What
if someone present with hemophilia or leukemia? Ok I hear
you say no big deal, there are others that will specialize in
those areas. That is correct, but how many consultants
are you going to have in hematology, 1000? Thus in a
hospital you will need like 500,000 consultants to manage
just one centre! This of course is not practicable and that
is why medical postgraduate training is very different and
unique. It may interest you to know Medical Officers
whatever their qualifications or years of experience are not
candidates for CMD in the tertiary institution or even the
secondary centers in the presence of a consultant. Again
the position of a consultant itself has legal implications
when it comes to litigation, autopsy or as expert witness.
Patient care is under the consultant playing the central role
not because of anything but for his strategic knowledge
advantage. There is no need for a consultant to be in the
primary health centres. So if the FG appoints other health
workers as medical consultants, imagine the confusion.
What role will they play, what value will they add to patient
care? Let me elaborate on this, a lab scientist will insist a
patient to use an antimicrobial drug based on laboratory
drug sensitivity pattern irrespective of clinical outcome
whereas a Consultant Medical Microbiologist or Physician
will not so long the patient is responding to the initial
empirical drug treatment even if the pathogen shows
antimicrobial resistance on the plate. Another example is
physician will not treat as emergency isolated case of
hyperkalemia without cardiovascular examination and ECG
even if scientist suggested such. Chest pain with rise in
cardiac enzymes doesn't necessarily mean Myocardial
Infarction.
There is an old age rivalry between Doctors and other
health workers that can be traced right from
undergraduate level. You may not have noticed it or
probably studied outside the country, but it was there. Not
only among them but surprisingly even among lawyers.
There is this childish debate about who is learned. This
gradually turned in to envy and now dangerously in to
enmity. Just read their comments, articles or interviews,
you can't possibly missed the unmistakable deep seated
frustration and hatred. People have no qualms spreading
falsehood among unsuspecting populace just for financial
gains. The funniest thing is that those people bring their
family and relatives to see Doctors (they never entrust
such burden on their colleagues) and the elite promoting
the discord all have Personal Physicians. Am not aware of
personal this or personal that, but then I know very little.
Again when you go to the private clinic and NGOs,
everybody conforms to ethics, isn't it a wonder? Why then
do we have confusion only in the tertiary health
institutions? Everything is about money. Ok suppose one
of them is appointed a consultant, what will be his job
description, what input will he make in patient care? Some
even want to be appointed directors at grade level 17,
imagine. As a Doctor with MBBS my entry point is grade
level 12 and 15 as a specialist, imagine how many
directors a teaching hospital will have in the next 6 years
or so. What will happen to other civil servants who have
reached level 17 but not yet directors? What will happen to
other workers with same qualifications who are not even
suppose to reach directorate level?
You seem to be fascinated with USA and UK model of
health system where you were eager to emphasize the
qualification of hospital CEOs. Yes they do have non
Doctors as ministers of health, but you failed to say they
equally have office of the Surgeon General and Chief
Medical Officer as well. Ironically you are not that keen to
borrow their leaf on privatization of hospitals because of
cost, but in actuality it is the fear of loosing your fight. Why
not go all the way and clone their system here? You have
to understand theirs is a capitalist economy and thus
putting a non Doctor up there doesn't mean anything. A
Doctor will always put patient first in his policy, obviously
this is against the fundamental of capitalism.
By Ibrahim Toli

Difficult isn't it

THIS IS HOW TO BECOME A CONSULTANT IN THE FIELD OF
MEDICINE

PRIMARY SCHOOL 6yrs
PRIMARY 6 LEAVING EXAM
JUNIOR SECONDARY SCHOOL 3 yrs
JSS 3 EXAM
SENIOR SECONDARY SCHOOL 3 yrs
SSCE/NECO/GCE
JAMB/UTME
3 YRS OF PRECLINICALS
SECOND MBBS (sleepless nights)
3YRS OF HARD WORK including
PATHOLOGY/PHARMACOLOGY ( sleepless nights)
CLINICAL POSTINGS then
FINAL MBBS
HOUSEMANSHIP 1 yr
NYSC
MEDICAL OFFICER
PRIMARY UPDATE COURSE I
PRIMARY EXAM---NPGM COLLEGE
PRIMARY UPDATE COURSE II
PRIMARY EXAM----WEST AFRICA
RESIDENCY INTERVIEW/APTITUDE TEST
RESIDENCY TRAINING BEGINS
JUNIOR REGISTRAR
UPDATE COURSE PART I ---NPGM COLLEGE
UPDATE COURSE PART I-----WEST AFRICA
UPDATE COURSE :MEDICAL ETHICS----WEST AFRICA
After 3 YRS then
PART 1 EXAMINATION----NPGMCOLLEGE
PART 1 EXAMINATION----WEST AFRICA
SENIOR REGISTRAR
M.Sc/MPH/M.Ed
UPDATE COURSE 11 ---NPGM COLLEGE
UPDATE COURSE 11---WEST AFRICA
MANAGEMENT COURSE
RESEARCH METHODOLOGY COURSES
THESIS WRITING/PROPOSAL
After 3 yrs ++
PART 2 EXAMINATION----NPGM COLLEGE
PART 2 EXAMINATION----WEST AFRICA
PART I AND PART II = 6 yrs
P.hD (optional)
FELLOW OF THE MEDICAL COLLEGE
INTERVIEW FOR THE POST OF A CONSULTANT IN THE
HOSPITAL
CONSULTANT
Thanx

lomaxx: You're not wrong. Attending a top medical school in Nigeria makes you a better doctor, your diagnosis will always be top-notch, ensures you automatically have the answers to all health problems. It also means you'll never have to fail professional examinations as a student and fin
ally you're better off than folks in Harvard Med.

an obvious doctor wanna be

egift: I wanted to return fire, but I am the sane one. So what is wrong in my post?

please ignore the guy

amaham: hello colleague, am an anaesthesiologist too. happy to see you here enjoying your strike. just sent you a mail

Hi, pls contact using dsalahu@yahoo.com

SAPEDRO: Well stated, but Why then do doctors in naija refer to them as illiterates, artisans, glorified technicians. as evident on this thread?

well, I'm a doctor and have never referred to them as illiterates, I'm infact an anaesthetist and I can tell u that the physician has d final say and the nurse anaesthetists takes instructions from the doctor, so the facts shouldn't be mixed up here

SAPEDRO: Google that yourself and post it here,since you are the one that wants to prove me wrong,mind you,i am not talking about the Nigeria system

there really is no basis for argument here sir, the doctor anaesthetist in the US are the highest paid professionals, nurse anaesthetists are also well paid, the reasons are obvious, legal issues abound in Anaesthesia

biomedixexcel: So if they don't lock it up, can you work Your answer would be YES!! but I don't blame you cos this thing can only happen in an insane environment!

I've got my brains, that's what I majorly need to work, with a prescription paper, I can see my patients and document on a continuation sheet, patients have their hand cards with numbers so the sheets would not get lost, drugs would be bought from pharmacies just facing the hospital gate, the buildings don't belong to johesu so no 1 has d right to lock up the place while on strike, just withdraw your services if u think u are indispensable

SAPEDRO: it's you who should get yours right. sir, even though there are consultants in that field, but that's what nurse anaesthetists are extensively trained for . in a typical hospital setting say an orthopedic department there's no need to involve a consultant anaesthetist who might not even be available, cos you already have a professional who can handle dat in ur department, which is exactly what people are clamoring for, that the health system is supposed to be a form of team work.
the major problem is dat medical doctors are overrated in this country so why won't they be holding the government to ransom time and time again

please take ur time to Google this fact out and see that a nurse anaesthetist. earns more than some medical doctors in the united state

anaesthetists generally in the US are highly paid, the highest paid professional in the US is infact the physician anaesthetist(doctor)- this is a verifiable fact. This is as a result of legal issues that might be involved in the practice of Anaesthesia especially in d advanced world, so it's no surprise that the nurse anaesthetists are highly paid in the US

barika2011: Just see your sense..mumu..look at the way u address efficient and hard working medical lab scientist,pharmacist and nurses...'lab people'..without this people a doctors practice is zero..if they go on strike even d doctors will go home to stay,cos not even registration of patients would take place,cos all medical files of the hospital wud b dumped on the shelves,...then we can start from there....

when doctors go on strike, they withdraw their services ie their brains and hands, but when these people u mentioned go on strike, they lock doors and hide equipments, and another correction, doctors don't go home to sit when others go on strike

This is purely government propaganda, agreements reached months ago are yet to be fulfilled, ministers don't call off strikes, associations do, the government is purely to blame for this industrial action as enough time was given as notice

SimonAndal: _

Seriously? He's a gay? I hate him now! I hate those gays!! They are no atom of human in them!!! They will die and go to hell!!!!!!

people who display these gay sentiments are usually gay trying to hide

Obj was also quoted in this interview to have stated that Ribadu could not have brought a report to him from thre US that Atiku was corropt and he(OBJ) refuse to investigate- according to Nation newspaper, forgetting that in d ideal setting, the attorney general should go ahead and prosecute without recurse to him, and that even he himself should be placed under d search light and not be d self appointed police

atlwireles: SOME OF YOU, NEED POLITICAL EDUCATION, BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTHS IN PUBLIC. DID JONAH WIN KANO, KADUNA,JIGAWA,NIGER AND SOKOTO IN 2011?

your jona didn't win the states but PDP allegedly won the governorship elections in those states and Jona got the much needed 2/3rd votes in those states

Profeme: Who doesnt want to identify with success?

great minds graduated from ABU u knw, most of us knw him

Wow, he taught me biochemistry as a medical student in Zaria, a fantastic teacher he is, wish him d very best