₦airaland Forum

philfearon:
Get serious Man,you are passed this Childish street like based arguments....
I expected you to refute my post you just quoted,and this is what you can do? Bring on baseless argument about if Neymar and Suarez fared any better than Messi last season? Of course Suarez fared better than Messi last season...
I challenge you to bring on any post of mine that Asserts your ridiculous speeches up there,instead of this your old fashioned " now I think you hate Messi ish,you are a disguised Madrid fan bla bla bla bla bla,etc...
Finally,did Neymar not suffer virtually everything Messi suffered last season? Has he not moved on?
And Suarez's own problem,is Messi's own better than it?
If you don't have anything to say bro,With due respect sir,just lock up!!

enuff with this man. iam out.

AjanleKoko:
Abi oh.
Most fans are recent Barcelona fans who only joined the train when we started winning.
One wonders why they did not follow Pep to Bayern

For me, Messi is doing okay. He is playing a new role and playing it well. He's basically a number 10 these days, not a striker, and I noticed he is really working harder for the team than he used to do during Pep's era, when the other geniuses used to set up brilliant plays for him to finish. Now it seems he's the one that starts the play from the middle. Lucho and his team need to look at that.

The general team performance is has just been underwhelming this season, compared to the standards we have all been used to. That is, despite the initial clean sheets and results. The big games like PSG and Madrid basically turned the team inside out, and kind of exposed the team's underbelly.
It's hard to criticize Lucho, because you can't really fault work he has done so far. His system looks good, and is quite efficient, but one worries that he simply does not have the players that have the legs, or mentality, to play the high-intensity pressing and quick-to-finish system he seems to favor. You can see players trying to look for the through-ball in a packed box, not attacking set pieces intensely, and holding on to the ball for a tad bit longer than required (Senhor Busquets the most guilty party here).

The players remain the geniuses they are (Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, etc), but sometimes one worries that one cannot teach old dogs new tricks. Just look at the middle three in Madrid - Kroos, Modric, and James. Outstanding ball players, with the right blend of physical ability and trickery. And even the oldest of them is 29 (Modric).

Somehow the old problems still exist, which range from simple basic lack of concentration in defence and in front of goal, to a seeming unwillingness to raise their game in some difficult situations. Maybe in the past the boys were used to Spanish opposition lying down and letting them have their way, taking their token 3 or 4 goals, but that simply will not happen any more. And I don't know what Lucho can do about that, save benching Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Alves, and co. And we all know what will happen if he tries that.

Cules need to accept that an era is ending, and we need to support Lucho (forget Zubi for now) to forge a new one. Of course it will be very different from Pep, as both men have different ideas.
For the younger or more recent cules, you need to forget about trophies. No be so the thing dey happen. The club needs to move on from the current generation and it won't be easy. We have some great talent coming through (I immediately think Dennis Suarez, Halilovic, Munir, Sandro, Samper, Dongou, and even Deulofeu if he doesn't dump us in haste), and the result will not be immediate. Remember it was Van Gaal that brought through Xavi and Iniesta.

For most Cules, my advice to you you is simple:

[size=16pt]Keep Calm and Forget Trophies[/size]

i really want to be optimistic. there will be a trophy or 2. our front 3 will blend, the team will blend. these are teething problems. we have about 3 or 4 new faces in the first team. as long as the 2 point gap is not extended say, before december. for a start we must beat ajax tomorrow.

philfearon:
Hellooooooooooooooo?
Are you really serious with the above?
The same 2013 that We developed the World Cup excuse for his below par plays?
The same Messi that walks around the Pitch in an "I don't give a fu.c.k" attitude?
The same Messi that warranted someone to say Messi has lost passion for the game?
And why all this your tax case issue? Didn't Neymar have the same issue? Is Suarez not having the same "psychological ish" that you so hug into?
Wake up man..You can go on and keep bringing void defences for Messi.....Na Your wahala!!

@ bolded, who are we? you're one of those that think messi was below par at the world cup? why am i not surprised? bringing neymar into this? has neymar or has suarez fared any better than messi? if so why are we in this situation? now i get it? you have placed barca's problems solely at the feet of messi? again, why am i not surprised? like i said you said, 'sell messi' since early 2013. you're definitely a madrid fan in disguise.

usbcable:
moderation is the word my friend.

Praise when deserving
And Complain/critisize when deserving

Messi is undoubtedly a great and amazing player.
But something has changed about him.
For his standard 80% performance is subpar.

So we all agree that he is not the Messi of old
what we dont agree on is what to do with that.

erm erm
you no well. are you saying I have not been making sens3 before today. lol.

you de make sense. but ya head dey touch sometimes.

usbcable:
yab him -its allowed as a fan to critisize him for his errors.
bench him - no sane coach will bench Messi aka la midget
sell him -who ever approves the sale will leave the club along with him

And all most folks have done is to lament.

as per the freekick and penalties. the superstar of any team usually takes such role hence I dont see that changing any time soon.
other cules just have to live with that fact

i like you. you have made a lot of sense today usb. lol.

philfearon:
Lol.....
I still want Messi sold bro.....And hell no,he has not bounced back anything...He has been on a downward trail since I made that comment..or have you forgotten so soon?
The sooner you learn that Messi has nothing to prove anymore,the better it will be for you to understand this Logic..If Fab has been around,I would have swallowed my word in shame,but the board shamelessly sold him away,and he was the Last of the Mohicans..
Is it a coincidence that Xavi,Iniesta,Busquets,Alves,Pedro,and Messi all started going the downward trail at the same time? No..
Its a pattern,and was bound to happen...Its happened...
The only way forward is to Re-prioritize the Philosophy and Forget that 2009-2012 is gone,and gone for good...
The only way Messi can make it through is to re-invent himself in The Xavi role(And become a Xavinised Messi)..
Neymar and Suarez are good enough to spearhead our Attack.....And then an addition of Reus....That's it..
Dennis Suarez,Sergi Semper and Alen Halilovic is our next Midfield trio... Where are they?

again you're wrong. june 2013, barca just won the league with 100 points.
-messi was top scorer in la liga
-messi was top scorer in europe
-messi just scored consecutively against all league opponents
-messi rescued us from the bench against psg
-messi led the demolision of ac milan with 2 superb goals
-then came injuries. messi had 4 injuries in 2013.
-then came tax problems
-last season barca came second in the league only because the referee disallowed messi's correct winner against athletico madrid, the same MESSI.
-then came the fifa world cup, golden ball or no golden ball, messi was among the best 3 players.
all these you call downward trail? anyway. i have taken you down memery lane. messi achieved all the above mentioned after you campaigned for us to sell him sometime in early 2013. so mr philfearon, ur criticism of messi is not constructive, you hate the man. 'barcelona fan'

barcanista:
I have placed FCB on suspension for causing me some emotional pain in their last two games. However, I still believe in Barcelona and Messi. The problem is not Messi, the problem is the fans, the media and everyone that expects Messi to do the Mr. Incredible on every match day. Sadly, the guy is having some psychological braeakdown as a result, because we have made him feel that a Very Good Performance from him is not enough. Barca's problem is not messi, we need a creative midfielder to backup Rakitic, strong backline and tactical discipline.
Messi will blossom, this is for sure. He is still the Best, this I believe.



Visca el Barca

you're right you just spoke my mind! messi has been performing at 95%, he just dropped to 80% and the daggers are out. our problem is tiki taka. let's play direct, long balls, quick breaks, set pieces. our attackers will have the ball before their defence falls back and there will be spaces. that's how madrid play. not hogging the ball at the middle. we need a change of tactics.

usbcable:
for months I have been admonishing him on his gusto at attacking anything that says or insinuates any negative view of Messi.
he always thought it was because I was a Blancos.
but not so at all.
@dipp my pally(you know I like you no homo)
keep calm you hear. Messi still has time to prove otherwise but presently his form has dipped.

the thing dey sweet you too much na.how long will you keep repeating your self? they have heard you,you've been admonishing me! i asked a simpe question which goes to you usb as well. messi's form has dipped, what do we do?
-yab him
-bench him
-sell him
if any one of these wont solve the problem, the the critics should shut up.

philfearon:
@bolded,what's it got to do with what we are saying here?
Is those the cheap excuses for missing clear cut 10+ one on one chances?
is those an excuse for monopolizing freekickis?
Is this the first time he has been injured?
Am beginning to believe your defence of Messi is irrational and illogical,and is purely sentimental and subjective,instead of being Objective!!
Like I said before,am not sure you love Messi more than any Cule fan in this thread,but Truth must be told.....That's how we roll!!

ONE- i am now convinced you've never kicked a football, if you had you'd know that psychological problems could make you miss a one on one chance. you think it's only when you're no longer a good player that you miss one on one chances? lol. i remember you philfearon, over the past 2 years, you always criticised messi. it was you who suggested benching messi and even selling him sometime ago and the entire thread descended on you. i think a year or 2 years ago. messi then went on to shut you up by bouncing back. since then you've never missed any chance to justify that crazy postulation you made. and now you've gotten one great opportunity on a silver platter.I REMEMBER YOU! guy, messi will prove you wrong again.
TWO-dont be ridiculous! every club has that one individual who "monopolises" free kicks! (word in quote) because no one really does! messi shares with xavi and alvez, he always did. just because neymar an suarez came along, the team wouldnt just give it to them. be real dont be a hypocrite.
FINALLY, again you once said on this thread that messi should be benched and sold. i am the last person to be surprised at you. your criticism of messi is inherent and dont be using 'missing one on ones' or 'monopoly of free kicks' as a smoke screen. coming from someone else it could be a genuine criticism but from you, it's your way of life. 'barcelona fan'

dmcdad:
That's not what we are saying. Is Pedro dead yet with his loss of form? Nope! Pique? Nope! No one is asking for his head and no one would ever ask for his head.

so what are you saying? and what are you asking for?
- the guy still has a tax case hanging over his head, he might go to jail.
-the guy has been slowed down by injuries.
-the guy has been playing both attack and midfield.

even if he has performed badly in 2 or 3 games, he is facing problems and we must say good things about him.
but then, the 'very loyal' ones amongst us are busy criticizing.

philfearon:
Firstly,I never criticized Sanchez,even though I might have chided him in one or two indecisions from him...
The Pique aspect has turned glaringly open,so I guess your defence is totally void...
Nobody is saying any bad thing about Messi,other than what has been percievably clear to all man..
Messi has been missing clear cut chances this season as if its his right to do so..He has missed more than 10..Check it yourself
He has monopolised Free kicks throughout this season and is yet to score any(Whereas there are other players who can have better kicks from it)...
He looses possession a lot this days..
Seems like he doesn't get his defence splitting passes anymore.....
........
If you have not seen the above lapses in Messi's game so far,Then am sorry to say this,You are just a Messi fan and not a Barcelona or football fan!!

surely he has lost form. what do we do?
-kill him?
-sell him? we'd get no less than 200 million in 2 seconds.
-bench him? we'd play pedro or munir.
@ bolded even 90% the fans @ the camp nou who pay thousands of pounds for their tickets still applaud messi and the team, then the 'very loyal' nairaland barca fan wouldnt let go.

philfearon:
ddipset = The Messi Defender ………
My fellow Cule,every Barca fan loves Messi to the Spine just like you..Infact he is the symbol for us..
But,The truth can't be hidden..He,just like every other player must be criticised if they are ailing in one way or another!!

messi defender? Wtf are you talking about? You need to take a short trip down memory lane and recall how much I defended pique when your likes were bashing him or how I defended Alexis when you guys threw him to the dogs. Every player could be criticised at some point but messi own never reach. Messi has the best stat in Europe this season even in his decline. Words used on Messi here should be on other threads. Just a fortnight ago I was probably a pique defender now Messi defender. I will continue defending them when it warrants.

coded01:
Are you saying Messi has scored a total of 30 - 40 goals via free kick in the last 10 years? --- I can see where you are coming from! Too much of Video games...


I don't know about the lottery you are talking about but Juninho scored an average of 8 goals a season via free kicks for Lyon in 8 years...

even then name one player today who scores over 4 free kicks in a season. do you think free kick is penalty? you are just making this free kick thing an issue. for me, the three, infact 5 should be involved; messi, neymar, suarez, xavi and alvez. this could be likened to 2 seasons ago when madrid played dortmund; ronaldo blew up to 8 free kicks that night. they had another free kick in the 94 the minute. ronaldo went for it, and ozil stopped him and took it himself. the ball was at the back of the net in 2 secs. did that stop ronaldo from being their free kick specialist? no, football doesnt work that way! messi is our free kick specialist, he has missed but he's still good, infact still our best, neymar second, xavi third, suarez 4th. i rest my case.

coded01:
It has always been this way, the old men mostly oppress this new ones & it's not different with Messi...

I guess you would be shocked to realise my Barca fans would rate both Suarez & Neymar better freekick taker than Messi, why? Messi has scored an average of 1 free kick per season for barcelona since 2004...

Why not talk about giving others 1 or 2 chances too?

messi has more than that average. maybe 3 or 4 a season. even the best free kick takers that ever existed cant do more than 5 or 6 per season. free kick no be lottery.

dmcdad:
Bro calm it down... We ain't attributing our problems to freekicks. Just highlighting what we have noticed overtime. And for the freekicks, your logic is so wrong. Seriously! The more freekicks Ronaldinho takes, the better. Pirlo? Don't even go there. So don't give me the sermon of accuracy depreciating as you play more. Bale is a better freekick taker than Ronaldo anyday. Take it or leave it.

lol. i have left it. up barca!

dmcdad:
Bro... That listing is not it. Ronaldinho 5th? That guy scores freekicks almost in every match with such opportunity. Even in his new club in Mexico, he scored some freekicks already.

Besides, did they give any stat as regards the ratio of conversion? Nope! So that sorta renders it invalid if you ask me.

How do you expect that Neymar plays 10 freekicks for Brazil and scores let's say 3 through the year. And Messi/Ronaldo plays 30 for Barca and Real respectively in the same period and score around 5 or 6. Would you still say they are better? That would be judging wrongly if you ask me. And frankly speaking, that is the case here.

If they have scored more, it's because they have taken far more than him. I believe the best way to look at it should be their conversion rate from how many they take. With that, there will be a fair rating. Besides, Ronaldinho is still a far better freekick taker than the duo of Messi and Ronaldo anyday.

the more free kicks you take the more your accuracy drops. if you take only 10 free kicks in a year then your sample space just isnt big enough and you shouldnt be in contention. by your logis someone that scores 2 free kicks in 4 attempts is better than someone that scores 30 free kicks in 100 attempts. not necessarily so! what iam saying YOU GUYS SHOULD LEAVE THIS FREE KICK THING ALONE. OUR PROBLEM IS BIGGER THAN FREE KICKS.

coded01:
This is funny! --- what's up with the scapegoat thing?
This is football & we shouldn't take anything out of context here...
How many goals have Messi scored via freekicks in his entire career?

coded01:
It seems someone is taking this messi thing personal!

it's the other way round. lemme address you directly. stop making messi a scape goat! all of a sudden barca's problems is now free kicks!!!!! prove that suarez and neymar are better free kick takers than messi.

i know that suarez has scored 3 out of his last 14 free kicks, i dont know for neymar. i also know that neymar scored one or two nice free kicks lately and that has beclouded the judgement of people who have forgotten the spectacular free kicks messi has scored and can score. below is a little link of the best free kick takers in the world as at july 2014. it might not be accurate but i will look for more links; just for people who are just looking for scape goats and must find one by all means.

http://www.therichest.com/sports/soccer-sports/10-of-the-best-active-free-kick-takers-in-football/?view=all

Javanian:
I thought i was the only one thinking in this line. Messi is literally sacrificing himself for the team by dropping so deep into the midfield because our midfielders lack the flair they used to have. He rarely has a 1-on-1 shot at goal this days because of this and we are here throwing stones at him and calling for his head, it's not fair.
I think we should cut Lucho and the team some slack, it's not as if they are not giving their all, they are trying, Lucho is still young and certainly not in Pep's pedigree, the team would improve. My problem with Barca this season is that they lack a keyman up front, it used to be Messi but since the start of this season it has been literally nobody so that's why as some of you pointed out they get the ball and almost sub consciously pass to messi even if he is in a wrong position to receive that pass. Messi is now playing more as a midfielder and there is no way he is in any position to lead our attack again. We have suarez, why not give him the duty, i think he is capable of doing just fine in that role. For crying out loud, you don't spend so much on a player as talented as him and play him on the wing to accomodate Messi, someone who is playing from the midfield and trailed by atleast two defenders at any point in the game.
Give Lucho some time, there is so much pressure on him. Things would improve.

LOL. i never knew i could see this much haterism after all the priases and glory glory of the first 8 weeks. hypocrisy does thrive on this thread.

lol, i understand everyone is angry, but lets cut them some slack. this is the same messi we were all praising in the first 7 or 8 games of the seaon when he was getting assists left, right and center. about 9 assists in 9 games and we all said he was great having to drop back and for the sake of the team was giving assists to neymar, munir, sandro etc. the same messi we now accuse of being greedy and that the team is playing for him? this is the same barca we were all praising early on when we were 5 or 6 points clear at the top. now everyone is drawing their daggers? as long as the boys are committed , this team will excel. we shall see!

that's what i mean. everyone is rushing to criticise! blaming and pointing fingers when it's the system and pattern that is faulty. it's almost as if its a contest going on here to see who blames the players the most. you see players putting in work, running, making attempts, sweating and just cause results are not favourable, they point fingers all day long. direct play is the key, just like 2012 till date the pattern has not changed, we are still playing tiki taka.

philfearon:
This one Na prep talk...
The problem is that Barca still doesn't get it...Tiki Taka is Xavi,and Xavi is faded..Why still hang on to a dead end?
The best defence against Treachery is Treachery..If they still continue to think We are in the 2009's and continue in this thread,Na their wahala.. If a team parks the bus and u decide to keep on playing the same old unyielding pattern,then you have yourself to blame..
If other teams parks the bus,what stops Barca from doing same?Truth is,Barca has chosen the part not to employ Coaches who know the game and are experienced....Martino Should never have been sacked....Barca has turned into a footballing political thuggery front,And that is where our problem lies....
Finally,is good u guys are seeing that Messi is becoming a pain in the ass...In his glorious four years Rule,I never saw him monopolise free kicks!!!

everything you said here is exactly what i said. so what do you mean by prep talk when you are saying the same thing with me? smh. also i dont know why you had to quote me again. true he should share the free kicks with neymar and suarez but he was true to the course. if he was walking around you'd still criticise him. he was running, he was sweating, he was making attempts, he was putting in 110% and now you want to bash him for missing chances? wicked!

sebod:
Bro! Losing to Psg and Madrid is not the issue, but the way and manner at which we approached the matches is the subject of debate. From favouritism to some players, playing some out of position to using a wrong approach. We can hardly muster 2 to 3 passes these days without losing to the opponent. During Pep's era, didn't we lose games? Yes we did, but we always had good games then. If parking the bus has been the problem which has been identified a long time ago, is it not high time we found solution to it? Our game play is woeful these days even in some of the matches we won.

againt madrid we played badly; messi missing his chance, iniesta giving an assist to isco, no one picking up pepe for his corner kick goal and pique giving an assist to ronaldo as usual. against psg the team played well, i was one of those days a team plays well and still loses. stop exaggerating things.

honeric01:
Defensive solution? go back to the era of using ultra-pressing method, when we swamp on our opponents when not with the ball.. we don't do this again.

good solution.

dmcdad:
This park-the-bus thing has been bugging us since 2012 to say the least. What have we done to counter it? At least we are now seeing what Tata was trying to implement and change to counter such tactic, but everyone cried foul (the board, the fans, the players). And what happened when he reverted back to the norm being tiki-taka? The team's decline started.

We are becoming arrogant by the day. We know our problems, but I guess our arrogance and our obsession with tiki-taka would never make us change our style.

Against Madrid, there were many occasions we should have taken them on the break, but like someone pointed out earlier on, Busi would rather pass the ball to Xavi, who will pass back to Pique, and then to Masche, and then back to Busi again. When we could have just played a long ball to Ney or Messi to take our opponents on the break.

I said this when Tata was pressured to revert back to tiki-taka after being successful with his direct style of play. That our obsession with tiki-taka will cost us alot if we fail to address it as required. And the problem is; we will always come out to complain about how teams put 8 players at the back of the ball. Such teams would play Madrid, Chelsea, Bayern and the likes in an open game. But Barca? The reverse would be the case. Are we to complain about this tactic or to look for a solution/tactic to counter it? It's becoming laughable that after losing a match, this is the kinda excuse you get from people and sometimes the players and coach even.

It baffles me that even with the fast players we have, we still subscribe sorely on this slow build-up of play. And this is especially painful when we should take our opponents on the break.

@bolded, not someone, i said that. the simple summary of what ive been saying all morning. we nedd to find a solution to defensive minded teams. infact not defensive minded teams but 99% of the teams we play because when offensive teams play against barca, the become defensive! but a lot of them here are all too eager to look for a scape goat.

coded01:
We lost due to ill-luck after hitting the bar 4 times...


Seems Barcelona are not prepare to do without our midfield maestros Xavi-Iniesta...


Lastly, high service towards Messi three-much... --- must everyone pass to Messi instead of shooting when they have glaring chances...

glaring chances? are you sure of 'glaring'? passed to messi? who did that? tell me what minute and let's check it again.

honeric01:
My view..

I am frustrated with our back to back losses..

lol. draw formations from now till next year. if barca dont find a solution to defensive strategies used by almost every team, your paper and marker go finish for formations.

coded01:
You self calm down!


Abi no be the same match wey Celta vigo comot play us wella u dey talk of 8 man defence!


Make we talk true jare, we hit post 4 times so it is meant to be but my thing is the "high service" to Messi is too much...


Freekick messi, to shoot na to pass to messi, Haba! Walahi, if Suarez had shoot instead of looking for Messi, we no go dey here dey talk this na...

'8 man defence is an exaggeration to stress my point, you should know this. celta defended and played on the break. did we watch the same match? you think suarez is the messiah to score the free kicks? lol. we shall see.

AbuMikey:
Atleast, Madrid didn't Park the Bus, PSG didn't either.

Its just so sad, losing at Home, to lowly rated Celta de Vigo.

Okay, not like they scored and late goal, they scored about 25-30 mins before the end of the game, just like it happened in Madrid, Yet they just still couldn't find a goal.


Losing to Lucho's former teams back to back
Okay, nobody is thinking what I'm thinking

we played madrid and psg away! they had the right to beat us! they are super star studded teams as well. we always think we can go to the homes of super star clubs and beat them at will. that is our problem.

NB- i am not criticising or faulting any team for parking the bus. but i have identified that as the reason for our bad performance. 100% sure. the boys are good, just for a few old legs. what we need now is a solution or antidote to bus parking.

honeric01:
^^^

Bro, please all this park the bus comment is also an excuse and blame game, is parking the bus not a game style? do you know park the bus is even a tactics in fifa 15?

If your opponent park the bus, stay in your half if you have no way to break them up, just pass around in your half till 90 mins.

sure it's an excuse. read again, and you 'd be 100% sure thats exactly what i said. but iam glad you identify it as the problem and have proffered a solution. passing the ball around in our own half for 90 mins might be a solution. thanks, good idea.

eyoniggar:
Instantaneous loss of faith by few cules just coz we lost 2 straight matches, ultimately dishing out the top table
to arch-rivals. Abeg make una calm down, madead were in bad shape following the beginning of this season.

Just our own down time for now, we'll bounce back.

surely we will bounce back. maybe it's a good thing not to top the table from the beginning to maybe match day 30. let others top and lets chase and let them feel the pressure. 2 points behind and 28 games to go? there is no cause for alarm! win on wednesday, these dj's will take their party to another thread, lol.