₦airaland Forum

olusegxz:
Where did you train? Everyone should work with pride. I personally have respect for all members of the health team. Scrubbing and discarding of waste (except sharps and hazards) after a procedure is universally that of the nursing team. This includes monitoring the patient and if the procedure was done in the theatre wheeling the patient back to the wards. It is a job done with pride in saner nations. But in Nigeria people like this sister here see it as deregulatory and demeaning.

If a Nurse did not work with a doctor on a procedure, she has no business discarding waste generated. The doctor discards the hazardous parts of the waste and the attendants scrub and clean the rest. In all the Nurses procedure that I learnt in school, there's none that says I have to discard waste generated by a doctor. None. So I don't know where you got your 'universal fact'

HilcomTech:
Basically we are saying the same thing. You are envious of their success and status in life.

okay o. I hear you

HilcomTech:
Help me tell them oooo

It's ignorance that makes the public see doctors as Nurses oga. Ignorance.
And Nurses aren't polytechnic graduates. Most Nurses today are graduates from the University. If you like respect doctors more. Nurses outside the country are well respected and their value is well known over there. So na una sabi

afrodoc2:
Never in the history of humanity has so much rubbish been said in such a senseless manner. In all your previous posts where did you criticize the nurse for locking up the doctor. Instead you are assuming rubbish that she was frustrated. If she was frustrated she could have resigned or bought ICAN form.

You have been lambasting doctors for no good reason for the past couple of days and you are talking about emotional intelligence. Your brain has expired.

The day a doctor frustrates you wherever you work you too should lock him or her up. Let us see if you won't wear prison uniform. Shebi you want to prove that you are senseless.

You're the senseless human being o. I never lambasted doctors. I only pointed out that they are not bosses to nurses. How's that lambasting? I even sincerely doubt you're a doctor the way you're spewing rubbish. Thank God most doctors I work with are sensible. If you like, go about insulting other people and beat them up too while at it and see if you won't wear prison uniform. Ignorant fool

olusegxz:
A nurse is part of a medical team. Can you work on your own? Can you diagnose a patient? Then what are you saying. Except you know what you are saying this is no argument here.

A doctor is also part of a medical team. Can you work on your own? Why do you go to great lengths to train quacks to work for you if you can do everything on your own? In primary health centres, public health nurses diagnose patients and treat them. So it all depends on what your job is. In US, Nurse practitioners diagnose and treat patients. And normally, as Nurses, we have Nursing diagnosis that we use and write for patients to take care of them in the ward. So what are you saying?

HilcomTech:
You were probably not smart enough to try.

Same goes for us in engineering. Many of those mathematics and physics lecturers actually applied to study engineering but failed to meet the cut off and eventually hated the rest of us that made it to engineering.

You talk as if you just came to Nigeria. Who doesn't know that most of those that get into Medicine use the backdoor, probably because their parents are rich or influential. Those that get in through merit are very few. That's why we have lots of doctors today without proper clinical and emotional training. I know of a doctor who used combined WAEC results to get into medicine. Something that cannot ever happen in Nursing. I know of a doctor that scored lowest amongst her friends but she was the only one that got medicine because her parents knew the deputy governor. Is it not this same Nigeria?
So if you want to talk about being smart, you're missing the point in thinking it's only smartness that get people into medicine in Nigeria.

afrodoc2:
Then stop being envious. You might as well write ICAN if you want to. Try to use that your rudimentary brain and top condoning criminal behavior.

In any sane society that doctor that did not dispose of her instruments appropriately would only be sent for a refresher course on safe disposal of sharps/clinical waste (which would most likely be completed online sef). Meanwhile that nurse would be arrested for at the least assault and probably abduction.

So while you keep screaming that doctors abroad can't try this or try that bear it in mind that if you try the rubbish your demonic sister tried abroad you might end up in jail and will definitely lose that your mighty nursing job. Meanwhile the house officer will be doing online refresher course while watching Netflix.

Why are you always talking about envy? Do you think it's everyone that wants to be a medical doctor? My younger sister is a doctor. My brother in law is a doctor. I had the opportunity to go for medicine but I chose Nursing instead and I have my reasons. Even if I decide to go for medicine or law tomorrow it's my choice. It's nothing about envy.
I dont think anyone mentioned that locking someone up was right. Youre the one assuming rubbish. The Nurse may have handled the issue in a more peaceful way but she was probably frustrated by doctors acting ridiculously repeatedly. It's not about going for a refresher course, it's about doctors putting down their ego and doing the right thing.
And please, try to learn about emotional intelligence especially when you have to interact with other people. You seem to lack that with your choice of words. Being a doctor doesn't mean you should be senseless with how you talk to others. I've met many polite and intelligent doctors. You can aspire to be one too

afrodoc2:
If ignorance was an Olympic sport you would be a gold medallist.

I only feel threatened because your level of stupidity is giving me migraines.

I have a brain that is why I am doing my job well and earning multiples of what you can only dream of.

You don’t have a brain that is why you are doing your job with one eye while eyeing my job and envying doctors with the other eye.

It is not my fault that you don’t have the intellectual capacity to study a better course. Don’t blame me. Blame your genes.

The fact that you spend more years in school so earn more than a Nurse doesn't mean a thing. Nurses earn more than some other professionals too in the labour market, that doesn't mean nurses are superior to them. Anyone can decide to choose any profession they like. I know some doctors that travelled out only to go study and become nurses over there because of the ease of getting jobs there as Nurses. And I know some nurses that went back to school to become doctors so they can have a higher pay. Some nurses go back to school to become lawyers. I know a doctor that went back to write ICAN certification to become a chartered accountant. So it's all a matter of choice.

Microwhy:
Nurses be fighting for equality but lack basis Comprehension.
I made a list of those common topics when discussing battle of supremacy but you single handedly pick out the one that will suit your argument.
You guys just want to just remain in self-denial. How can you compare a nurse and a doctor.

Nurses and doctors are two different health professionals that need no comparison. No one is superior to the other. And no one is fighting for any silly equality. It's people like you that prefer to put trouble where there is none. And I don't blame you. It's the Nigerian mentality right from the time of the 'gallipot' nurses. Nollywood has also influenced most of your thinking.
Nurses today spend years in school, go for internship like the doctors, go for one or more specializations, go for their masters and phd etc. Some Nurses own hospitals and employ doctors to work for them. So why would such a Nurse see herself as 'inferior' to another human being. We all decide to choose our different paths.
When you leave the country to saner places, you'll realise that there's no reason for comparison between them at all

Otunbakayce:
So where do you think I am practicing? Abeg carry your low self esteem go one side. Nursing student dey compare note with medical student. Just because a medical student was pipping and teaching you with his basic medical science notes, you feel you Mcq only based anatomy exams questions and an MBBS mcq, theory and clinical anatomy exams questions are the same.
Get the fvck out please!

You're a really bitter doctor o. How will a medical student teach me anatomy? You're the one with a low self esteem and you also have narcissistic tendencies. If truly you're practising in the UK which I doubt, it won't be long before they sanction you with all these your ignorant rants. Please go for a thorough mental assessment. You seem damaged with the way you react to simple conversations

Otunbakayce:
Even physiotherapists, radiographers, med lab scientists and pharmacists are place a level higher than B.sc Nurses despite spending the same 5 years In school. "we all virtually do the same thing in preclinical" so because you did anatomy, physiology and biochemistry that means you did the same thing with medical students. Even a physiotherapy student who as well did the same thing won't spit these nonsense. This one is either a nursing student or a nursing school graduate who just enrolled for Bsc. I spent 6+ years in medical school and I am very much familiar with the Nigerian civil service system. You are clearly a student dont quote me again. When you are opportuned to travel to the UK, come and try all these nonsense here nor spit all these Rubbish.

you're one ignorant doctor. You feel when we were in school, we don't mix together as medical and nursing students and compare notes? So you think I'm a student? Good for you.
The reason why some health professionals may be placed higher than nursing in Nigeria is because the Nursing profession is just starting to fight for their rights in the clinical world here in Nigeria. They still want to view us as they viewed the old nurses that only spent 3 years in nursing school. It cant be the same anymore. Things are evolving all over the world, and soon, Nursing in Nigeria will also get there.
When you also travel to the UK and see how things are done there, you'll realise that you're just an ignorant doctor with Nigerian mentality that know absolutely nothing about Nurses and nursing.

Otunbakayce:
Are you minding the shallow minded human.

When people don't understand something, they resort to insults. You need to be at par with the world around you, before you're left behind because of your ignorance

afrodoc2:
Really?

Yes. Make your findings very well

afrodoc2:


The olodo said nursing school school training is as rigorous as medical school. Hahahaha

What do you know about clinical training? Do you even know that nursing and medical students do virtually the same courses in preclinical training in the university? Try to make your findings and upgrade your knowledge

AdemolaA2:
I understand your point .. mind you , I’m not a medical personnel and neither do I have experience in clinical matters . In my opinion , I don’t just feel it’s right for doctors to be expected to do the cleaning after surgeries . Auxiliary nurses should have the knowledge of cleaning and arranging of clinical apparatus after usage. Don’t think much expertise should be needed for this .

Doctors don't clean up after themselves after surgery in theatre. Theatre orderlies are specially trained to do that. But if a doctor performs a procedure in the ward, he needs to clear his workspace by discarding sharps and other biohazard waste, so that he does not expose other health professionals to hazard. The ward attendants can then do the remaining cleaning up. Like I said, we Nurses do not recognise 'auxiliary nurses'. We are not auxiliary nurses. We are Registered Nurses with a recognized registered body. So whatever 'auxiliary nurses' do in private Hospitals is their own problem not ours

Otunbakayce:
Try to get which nonsense update.
Grade you which same way? Because your pass mark is 50? Can you pass 300 level medical courses? Your starting level in civil service as a fresh B.Sc nursing graduate is level 7 during internship while that of a doctor is level 10. Your school of nursing colleagues starting level is level 6. In military and paramilitary in Nigeria a Doctor starting rank is captain or 3 star equivalent, lawyers, physiotherapist, pharmacist and coren engineers 2 stars or lieuteant. You are rating yourself as on the same level as a Doctor. You ugly and bitter people low self esteem won't let you think and respect your seniors. You bitter and ugly nurses rate yourself above your level. Can a nurse in USA, Canada or UK spit these bolded Rubbish you spitted.

You don't have your facts right. Even a Yoruba graduate is not placed on level 7 in civil service not to talk of a graduate Nurse. Doctors are placed on a higher level because they spend extra years in school. That is how it has been. That doesn't mean a doctor is a boss to the Nurse. Why don't you say a doctor is a boss to the pharmacist and physiotherapist too? Some people go to universities to study a four year course. Does that mean they are inferior beings? We all make our choices in life. That does not make you a lesser being.
And what is in 300level medical course? A student of Anatomy will clear 300level medical courses not to talk of a Nursing student. We all do virtually the same thing in preclinicals. You don't really know much about clinical school, do you?
A Nurse in the UK or Canada knows her right and will not tell you ever that the doctor is her boss, no matter how many years a doctor spends in school

descarado:
In Nigeria, all nurses are theatre nurses.
Aside that, theater nurse or not, it is the sole duty of a nurse to do the needful. Has nothing to do with doctors.

Because Nigeria get away with unlawful work ethics doesn't mean that is the standard.
There is general acceptable standard for some occupations all over the world and this is one of them.
Doctors only enter theater to do one thing. Surgery. The rest isn't their problem.

Please try to get your facts right. All nurses are NOT theatre Nurses in Nigeria. For you to be a theatre Nurse, you go to school of perioperative Nursing after your Nursing degree. And what happens in the theatre does not necessarily happen in the wards. We also have Nurse anaesthetists in the theatre that work with the doctors. Does that mean all nurses can be nurse anaesthetists? No! The standard anywhere is still that whoever generates a biohazard waste cleans it up. The theatre may have their own set of rules because of the peculiarity of the place, but standard is standard anywhere in the world. When a doctor performs a procedure, he clears away the sharps and other biohazard waste. It is not the Nurse that will do that for him.
A consultant was angry and refused to see a patient because he said the Nurses didn't bring the stethoscope to him, that they asked him to go pick it up himself from where it is kept. Is it the duty of the Nurse to bring stethoscopes to doctors? Is it part of Nurses procedure? It is important that Nigerian doctors know what is standard and start working with that so that there can be a good working relationship between them and other health professionals

descarado:
The Dr need not hand them over. The nurse should pick them immediately it's of no use anymore. That is part of their training and ethics

If this is done anywhere in civilised society, that lady is going to jail and will be heavily fined while she say goodbye to nursing.
That's an ethical offence and will never be tolerated anywhere. Let's not sugar-coated it. Nothing concerns the Dr with ensuring implements are complete after surgery. That's the theater nurse job description.
Go through that link as see job description of a theatre nurse.
Why are we defending ethical lawlessness?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/nursing/roles-nursing/theatre-nurse%23:~:text%3DYou%27ll%2520provide%2520high%2520standards,such%2520as%2520cardiac%2520catheterisation%2520units.&ved=2ahUKEwjv-ZrOg8T4AhX3QEEAHVJtC0oQFnoECAoQBQ&usg=AOvVaw0BCwtSY6_EBtdLSsgmiZ2l

A theatre Nurse ensures instruments are complete after surgery. Some surgeons also assist the theatre Nurse in making sure all instruments are complete and they didn't forget anything inside the patient. Same way a theatre Nurse assists a surgeon in holding patient's tissues, sunctioning off blood etc. It is a collaborative work. But that does not mean if a doctor performs a procedure in the ward, that the nurse cleans up after him. It is wrong. The doctor clears his area of work when he is thru and the attendant does the general cleaning. The theatre is different from the ward. Like I said, everyone has their own clear cut duties

Otunbakayce:
Ordinary school of nursing graduate sef dey blab. Ordinary level 6 officer.

I am not an ordinary school of nursing graduate mind you. I'm a university graduate and a Registered Nurse. And I went thru the same rigorous training doctors went thru in medical school. They grade us the same way in the university. My salary as a graduate Nurse is far higher than a Nurse that went to just school of Nursing. And most school of Nursing leavers now come back to the university to spend additional four years so they can climb the ladder easier and faster. Try to get updated

AdemolaA2:
Oh I see .. but I feel auxiliary nurses should rather be the ones doing the cleaning and not the doctors who would have been exhausted after performing tasking surgeries .

Please, 'auxiliary nurses' are not real nurses. They are quacks trained by doctors. The only real nurses in Nigeria are the Registered Nurses registered with National Association of Nigerian Nurses and Midwives.
During surgeries, the doctors and Nurses work together. It's not as if the Nurses will sit one place and be watching. Some scrub Nurses even have to assist in performing the surgery, holding back tissues, suctioning blood etc. So most of the time, both doctors and Nurses are exhausted. In most theatres, the theatre attendants clean everywhere up after the surgery, including the instruments. However, if procedures are done in the ward, the Nurse may clean the instruments afterwards or ask the attendant to clean it up.

dway2life:
Keep displaying ignorance. All because your ego would not allow you to do the right thing.

read attached part documents of National standards of healthcare cleanliness 2021.

Everything is online, I don't know why I lots keep coming here to display ignorance.

Hope you know that in other parts of the world, there are various types of Nurses. We have the certified Nursing assistant, we have the licensed practical nurse, we have the licensed vocational nurse, then we have the Registered Nurse. They all have different duties assigned to them. What we have in Nigeria are the Registered Nurses, and they have higher ranks than all these other types if Nurses.However, A Registered Nurse can perform bedbath for a patient. Bedbath is a form of cleaning service. A registered Nurse can also clean and autoclave used instruments, and sometimes she can assign that duty to attendants. This is also another form of cleaning service. But a Registered Nurse is not obliged to clean after a doctor makes a mess of his working space. The doctor will clear the area of biohazard waste and the attendant will do the remaining cleaning. That's the standard

descarado:
Read it up.
Type duties of theater nurse and you will get your answer.

As every nurse in Nigerian hospital is a theater nurse, they should do the job of theater nurse.

How can every Nurse be a theatre Nurse? Nurses have specializations too you know. All Nurses can't be theatre Nurses

CaptainAyub:
Why are there "scrub nurses" in the theatre if it is never anybody else's duty to clean up after d doctor?
What is their job?
What is the job of the attendants attached to the wards?
Agreed nurses are colleagues to doctors but THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A LEADER IN EVERY TEAM which in this case is the doctor.
A ship which doesn't have a captain will sink or run aground.
Patients come to the hospital to see d doctor not nurses, not lab scientists not pharmacists.
Drs now decide,you should go to the ward,you should go to the lab,you should go to the pharmacy.
If a patient doesn't make it,nobody blames the nurse,nobody blames the lab scientist cos they all claim they carry out the instructions of the doctor, so how can they be running shoulders with Drs claiming equal?
A lot of times Patients come to hospitals with complaints, they're reassured and sent home without any test or drug,that shows you the hospital is centered on doctors and patients.
Nigeria is a strange place shaa

Scrub Nurses assist the surgeon in the theatre. They don't clean up after surgeons. The theatre orderlies do that. The attendants in the ward also clean up the ward, but the standard is that whoever generates a biohazard waste cleans it up so they don't expose others to hazards. The attendants can then come around to mop the floor, clean the surfaces, dispose off the bins etc.
If a doctor makes a prescription and gives the Nurse to carry out, if there is an error in the prescription the doctor made and the Nurse carries it out like that, the Nurse is liable and will be penalized, because she is a professional in her own right, and she ought to know when another professional makes an error. So if such errors occur, the Nurse is blamed, not the doctor. That is the standard.
There is always a leader in every team, but the doctor does NOT lead the Nurse. Doctors have their leaders, the consultants, and Nurses have their leaders, the ward leaders and the directors of Nursing. Why is it that when a senior Nurse enters a ward, all the Nurses there stand in respect, whereas when a doctor enters a ward, we Nurses do NOT stand in respect, we continue with whatever we are doing, because doctors aren't our bosses. Doctors, Nurses, pharmacists, laboratory scientists, physiotherapists are all colleagues. Nobody leads the other. In antenatal clinics, the Nurse attends to the pregnant women, give them physical examination, counsel them, attend to them if they have any minor issues or questions, and they may not need to see a doctor at all before they are asked to go home. The Nurse takes charge of all that has to do with them. It is only those that are liable to have complications that are asked to see the obstetrician. So everyone has their job. Please update your orientation.

TellMeTheTruth:
Since when did it become the responsibility of the doctor to clean up after surgery?

It was a procedure done on the ward. The doctor is meant to clear up all dangerous materials generated by him or her before the attendant comes in to do the remaining cleaning. That's the standard

lagosrd:
If you like go and hug the transformer. Enough is enough in Nigeria , we cannot have stupid and arrogant people as nurses again. The private practice nurse are far better than you lots who do nothing in most government hospitals rather than playing useless politics and attending cooperative society meetings . 75% of the day roaming aimelessly around the hospital premises and talking to patients and their families anyhow

Private practice nurses that are mostly quacks trained by doctors. I don't even know why they are called 'nurses'. They should be called quack doctors because they are your products. It's easy for doctors to control those ones since they don't know anything about Nurses right. But you cannot try rubbish with a graduate Nurse. It's not possible

Makowonda:
Everybody get 'im own work to do.E dey inside Bible for Romans chapter 12.Workers play their various parts in their various departments,I can't be a cleaner,gateman and manager all at the same time.In this case the doctor played her part in treating the patient,it is left for the attendant(abi na how them call them?)to clean up the mess cause that's his/her job.But for the "I don de work here for years before dem employ you" attitude of the nurse she decided to oppress the poor female doctor.The "sibling rivalry" between doctors and nurses started the day that Adam came back from the farm to meet Eve with the forbidden fruit in her hand.

Of course, the attendant will clean up the remaining mess on the floor and surfaces, but the doctor who generated waste of sharps and other biohazard materials is meant to dispose them appropriately. The attendant may not even know there are sharps lying around and could prick herself unknowingly. That is why the rule is that whoever generates waste cleans it.

zedegit:
Grammar.Let nurses go and conduct surgery nah. Nurses are care givers and abide by doctors recommendations.

Is it even all doctors that conduct surgeries? Everyone has their clear cut jobs. We also have anaesthetist Nurses that work alongside surgeons. They all have their jobs to do. If a doctor recommends a mode of treatment for a patient and the Nurse is not comfortable with it, it is within her right to ask the doctor to review his mode of treatment. There are times that doctors make mistakes in their prescription. A well trained Nurse will recognise the mistake and call the doctor to order. You think nurses just follow doctor's instructions blindly? No it is not done that way. They are meant to work together to care for the patient. If you as a doctor leaves this country to work someplace else, you will realise that all the bullshit you try here do not work there at all

asiga:
Doctors are becoming endangered in this country with every passing day.

Many of the other health care workers who could not gain admission to study medicine vent their anger on them.

Many who could not survive the med school heat and have to change program vent their anger on them.

They successfully formed unions and associations to intensify their fight against doctors.

Even the Government not helping matters.

No wonder our doctors are running in their numbers to any other country including small Oman.

May God help Nigerian people

Some of us chose Nursing because we wanted it. Do you think some people can survive Nursing school heat. If you're a nursing student in the university, you dare not score less than C in any course. Any score less than C(50%) is failure. That is also the standard in medical school. So what are you saying?

chessguru:
The nurses are foolish people

It takes a foolish person to know another foolish person

CaptainAyub:
Your inferiority complex is palpable.
Why not go back to medical school and read medicine if you don't have job satisfaction?
A nurse is not a doctors assistant?
Who then is the doctor's assistant?
Setting up IV lines,passing of urethral catheter etc are 2-man procedures,so whose job is it to assist the doctor do that?
So a doctor should go and be looking for another doctor to apply plaster for him in setting up IV or pass KY jelly to him in catheterization when tens of lazy nurses litter the ward?
That una matron get luck cos if na me,I go beat am well well after all action and reaction are equal and opposite.
Whoever is telling you that a nurse isn't a doctor's assistant is merely using your tiny head.

Seems you're ignorant of how clinical practice works worldwide. A Nurse is NOT a doctor's assistant. Each has his or her job to do. If a doctor wants to set an IV line, he can do it himself and if he can't, he will politely ask the nurse to help him. It is not a Nurse's duty to cut plaster for a doctor. She can only assist if the doctor requires it. Nurses have their jobs to do on the ward, not to follow doctors about when they are doing their own work. Nollywood movies and the quack nurses trained by doctors you see in private hospitals have clouded your senses

CaptainAyub:
Nurses especially the older ones like picking on house officers,especially the female ones.
Her problem is that the doctor is a house officer(the most junior) and probably a very young person, meanwhile probably earns far higher than her,forgetting that d form for medical school is out on sale every year.
Typically, if a doctor comes into the ward for a procedure or even ward round,a nurse is supposed to follow them.(to observe, assist,take note of instructions made about the patient etc)
If it is a case of a procedure like d above scenario,after the procedure, the nurse is supposed to call the attendant attached to the ward to clean up,that is their job.
But in d zoo,everyone likes to overreach themselves.
Then u know women and their wahala,if it were even d highest ranking male nurse in that hospital, this issue wouldn't have arisen.

Of course the attendant will clean up the floor and surfaces, but the sharps generated and other material waste is meant to be discarded by whoever generates it. That's how it is all around the world. It is in Nigeria that most people do not know their rights, and when one person speaks up, he or she is attacked.
When doctors come for ward round, a Nurse that goes with them not just observes or assists, they also give opinions about what can be done with the patient, because it is the Nurse that stays with the patient all day long, so they know the patient more. In saner climes, all these things are quite clear

Microwhy:
They're "mere" no matter how you guys fight it, Doctors are still far above you and we in the society respect doctors more, we see them as nurses oga. Stop trying to change what you cant. Nurses are helpers to doctors.
University graduate is not same with polytechnic graduates,
Engineers not same with technicians.
No matter how bitter you're about it, the fact remain.
Accept the fact and know peace.
Dichotomy!!!

So Nurses in your town attend polytechnics? Let me educate you. Nurses go to universities and spend five years. Afterwards, they go for one year internship just like the doctors before they go for NYSC. The Nurses that attend schools of Nursing eventually upgrade their certificates by going back to the university to spend another four years after the three years they spent in school of Nursing. Hope you understand now that doctors are not bosses to Nurses. They both have their individual clearcut jobs laid out for them