₦airaland Forum

Image123: you expected answers? keep hope alive, th jews are still expecting the messiah.

This sounded like "please, deebrain lets stop this argument. It will only have to take God to clear us on this issue and not my baseless verses.." This doesnt sound like the argumentative "apostle" image123...hmmm..

Aint that cute? Two chickens playing over spilled milk? I expected answers not this....I kind of like the tag team though...
Childish.

I honestly like that part "some youths had her beaten to stupor..."

What was she expecting?

moredendisc: @deebrain

You're more concerned about his skin than the sheeple's under his guard?

Tell it like it is! I'll say

It is an observation that needs for posterity sake to be mentioned that, he, caught on camera, sold a hell false doctrine

Ah!

moredendisc: @frosbel

The way in which various books were combined and arranged to form or compile the Bible,

the way the bible and translations were planned preconditions and sets one up to sheeple-ishly receive false doctrines, erroneous notions

Translations were done on prevalent theology and not the Hebrew/Greek original text.

Imagine Bishop Oyedepo saying "You are not set for deliverance, and you are free to go to hell!"

Hello! Hell no. There is no hell.

The sheeple think the KJV is inerrant, like the Hebrew or Greek original texts are.

The American Bible Society, in 1851, compared six different editions of the King James Bible and discovered over 24,000 variations between the sampled editions for a particular Bible translation.

Like to believe that though it can be slow, surely, the veil will gradually be removed from eyes.

The knowledge and true translations of words

such as "torment" "punishment" "everlasting" the rich asking for water" etc etc

from the original text will remove the lack of understanding and clear up all these theology muddles.

Eh? Oga, as much as possible, avoid bringing names of pastors here...this is to cushion the weight of attacks available on this thread.

frosbel: ^^^^^

Evidence of poor bible study , need I say more.

Dishonestly translating Sheol and Hades as HELL to support a false doctrine.

Those who will err will err, those who love the truth and yearn to know GOD will continue to search the scriptures with humility and a willingness to learn , while disposing of previously preconceived and erroneous notions.

Mr OP

Its like yr brother mr Image123 is more into "winning" an argument against u rather than answering yr questions, sir.

Image123: i knew you were shy, didn't feel you were a liar. Little wonder your chat with jebus brought you frowns. Be careful

he doesn't possess you, he can be quite err possessive.


i just checked through about(more than) 10 different versions/translations including Strong's and all these stuff

you wrote remain false. You should try to double-check all these waste you are feeding yourself with. Don't go the

way of the prodigal son getting fat on husks.

Thank God, at least you saw the OP's flaws, he's consistent at that too. i'll not bother to quote the rest of your

post to give you a chance at redemption. imagine calling Albert Barnes' notes cheap internet materials! you are so

funny for a learner. BTW, Barnes was American, mr americana and the thing no bi 'GEHANNA'. You need Jesus asap.

The reason im responding is because at least u checked through something and did not drop a lame verse-rather u decided to be lame yrself.

Jumping into a trap of getting a material written by americans was so childish-I SAID A RESEARCH INSTITUE AFFILIATED TO THE AMERICANS As though u dont know english. It took me some good 15 full-time months to be a student of one good one in the heart of berger lagos then. And for u to complete that course, u gear yrself (by an undertaken of good behaviour) because as we got to know, so many things that we know today and even quote (even to satan laughably) WERE TOTALLY WRONG.

And if u like, look for 25 translations-MIND U-THEY ARE TRANSLATING THE AUTHORIZED KING JAMES (which in itself claims to translate the greek hebrew and latin bibles) u will still go round this ignorant circle of yr verses.

Probably u checked strong's version or the leader's bible and saw "hell fire" and "everlasting torment" and smiled to yrself saying 'ah that deebrain guy go hear am today'. What i would assure u is that U WONT FIND (except from some cheap materials online of people that like to raise arguments against bible statements) EASILY ORIGINAL TEXTS UNLESS FROM SPECIAL LIBRARIES FROM THE SCHOOLS IM TELLING U.

Now to yr also cheap insults (i wonder why supposed christians resort to it when there is an objective challenge to their doctrines), i did not lie when i talked to Jesus (not Jebus-because i assume emotions got d better side of u while typing). Please remember to edit yr wrong spellings.

If Jesus through the Holy spirit does not possess u, satan will. Yr soul cant be an island-so i need more of his possession.

The prodigal son got fat on husks and still got more than his dilligent elder brother..although personally i did not like the guy.

And until death- i will never assume to have known anything. I will always learn both spiritual and secular things. So i dont mind been called a learner. Ive learned from here not to engage the stubbornly ignorant.

My flaw with the OP is him bringing this hard truth to a public forum (for the sake of new converts)..and u people rather than brainless arguments ought just to cleverly answer and move on (but naaaa) u guys brought emotions to it. Thanks to yr sunday services.

Lastly i need Jesus, who doesnt? The fact that im a believer and a student of his word does not mean ive become too much for him...hello?

truthislight: dont you think the deabrain is making more sense than you?

I mean, for some one that said he came to learn, he has learnt and started teaching sef.

Guy, stop this teaching of cruelty.

Stop abusing scriptures.

Do you think christianity has about forty thousands denominations for nothing?

There has been lots of fraud and twisting of the scriptures.

"He that does not love has not come to know God; for God is love." (1 John 4:.
.................

^^^
not selective love, but love for all.
He that rejects that love will be destroyed and he will lose out on God's love.

Dont mind him. Frosbel warned me earlier about him. I should not have wasted my internet access responding to him.

Pending when i see an objective opposite answer to the OP, im putting a halt to my responses. Learned preachers know the truth of this thread but for the benefit of new believers, they dont preach it. I decide to do the same now so that those that would yet accept the gospel (irrespective the method)will still do so.
Meanwhile the kids still wanting to showcase ignorance can continue...

Image123: funny things. This deabrain is just here deceiving himself, and claiming stuff . I'll proceed with replies to the remaining questions when i have the time.

Dont behave like a chicken here. If u have good stuff to say and not throw in that dirty towel line of "i dont think u are a christian" or "im deceiving myself" please do say it and dont shut yr mouth. I prefered this topic not even talked about in public because of young christians but people like u that just submit verses to back up an emotional lie..needs to be lectured. Dont come back with silly replies of dropping lame verses.

...

@ Image123

What type of a human being are u? Are u researching from peoples opinions or from original texts of yr bible?

And yes, i asked Jesus (the One u described as the teacher of hell) but He merely smiled back and said He did not speak english in His time on earth.

Please.
The phrases "eternal torment", "everlasting fire",etc in the scriptures u quoted (Matthew 18 vs 8, Matthew 25, Mark 3 etc) WHERE NOT USED IN ORIGINAL TEXTS(it was that same dump ground GEHANNA that was used). And that is where yr argument ought to be. THEY WERE ADDED IN YOUR ENGLISH TRANSLATION (LATIN AND THEN YR KING JAMES!).
They are repeated in yr Revelations 20 where it says ...the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire....(ORIGINAL TEXTS ENDS IT HERE) (English version continues) and will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Yr questions should be directed to those that translated yr bible and not even to Jesus yr supposed hell teacher (and may He forgive u for that description). And yr questions should be WHY?

WHY was the idea the eternal torment put into a reference of complete destruction? WHY were mortal examples used to glorify this concept when we all know that souls of men neither have "worms" or eat or feel pain outside human bodies?

historians argue that the europeans wanted resistance weakened so the idea of people (who rejected the gospel )being forever burned AS HUMANS will promote some kind of fear in those listening to the earlier missionaries. This (unlike now)did not do much. It was until these missionaries added some good tidings to their visits (medicare, education etc) that people actually started listening and accepting the gospel.

And please. Stop researching on the OP flaws and come here to attack him. It is very childish. And rather than the cheap internet materials (u used to describe gehanna) Pay and register in a good bible research institue (preferably one with affiliations to the AMERICANS-NOT EUROPE). U will see materials that will shock u about yr bible.

highyo: You have confess Christ as your lord and savior, but you still promote satan in your life by bearing the name he gave to you
You have to prove to him that you are not more his, and you are throwing away all his materials installed in your life, not throwing away some and holding back some.
You can’t be serving God with satanic personality in your life.
YOU ARE JUST LIKE A CHRISTAIN PUTTING ON SATANIC WEARS LIKE MINISKIRT, RAG JEAN OR A CLOTH WITH SATANIC NAME OR LOGO
My God is holy, be holy as He is holy. Don’t let satan personality reflect in your name.
Reject satan and reject the name he gave to you now, when you still have the chance

Holy Holy Highyo Please! Names have nothing to do with a persons salvation but a persons destiny on EARTH. Some people may not enter into their destiny UNTIL THERE IS A DIVINE LEADING TO CHANGE THE NAME (as was the case of Jacob). God does not need u to prove to Him-He already loved Jacob (aka yahoo boy) even in the womb!
And if u like bear the name Jesus God, if u are not diligent in pursuing yr destiny on earth, u wont get there irrespective of yr good name.
And its not satan that gave people names. Its ignorant parents that do. Satan only takes advantage of certain names that refer to him EITHER IN GOOD OR BAD LIGHT to manifest in the person's life.

Lovely. This is wonderful.

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]Deeper Life. Hmmm...i remember most of them for d wrong reasons. And the G.O is nothing compared to them at all (personal experience). Some of them think they can impress him with their "outward" holiness.

Bidam: lol..my bro..u still dey vex after i don apologise..i can see d flesh @ work..abeg read mathew 5:22..cool down na its just an argument..no be quarel na shuo

Whatever.

991: and my patriotic moronigerians will always sit quietly waiting for someone to tell them what is wrong or not,
waiting for someone to read out chapters and verses of the same bible they have at home,
waiting for someone to tell them what god said and what he did not,
Let me ask you....Why does God talk to your pastor but doesn't talk to you??

Powerful.

Bidam: am ok with the mocking smile anyway..Jesus was also mocked..no wahala..the fact that it got to 8 pages goes to show that the arguments are baseless and God is not in it..pls do you pray in tongues?

Less i forget, may Jesus Himself have mercy on u for this statement. Jesus teaching was perfect and very factual. The pharisees KNEW THAT HE SAID THE TRUTH BUT THEY COULD NOT ADMIT IT OPENLY. U are playing the pharisees against frosbel and u dare say what u said?

Bidam: if you take my first post as insult ayam sori..guess i interpreted u wrongly..but u did reply na..and u neva mentioned i insulted you..why are u sayin it now..i think i now no you better by this post.."no comment".

Keep yr apologies- i dont need them either. I need yr objective answers to frosbel initial questions.

Im even getting angry that condemnation preachers really made me go too far into satan for long before one of my supposed "catches" preached the actual gospel to me..People that dont know the big bibles they carry going about telling people "hell this, hell that". If only i knew somethings i knew now then, it would have been different.

truthislight: thank you very much.

U are welcome sir.

Bidam: am ok with the mocking smile anyway..Jesus was also mocked..no wahala..the fact that it got to 8 pages goes to show that the arguments are baseless and God is not in it..pls do you pray in tongues?

God is everywhere but He cant manifest in where people glorify ignorance.

There was a post in this thread that u answered with yr first insult that i was being proud and doing like i know too much (how come u want to play good boy now?).

SPEAKING IN TONGUES HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER U HAVE KNOWLEDGE OR NOT. It builds u up (spiritually) to either manifest knowledge, faith and grace that is in u or humbles u to accept it.
If God knew that you will have knowledge via tongues, He wont tell u to study. Dont ask me dumb questions.

Bidam: pls whats ur real name? I hope it is not deebrain..i want to pray to God on ur behalf..pls permit me...its not mockery

I dont need yr prayers. Nobody does. Focus on the issue. Im not frosbel. Frosbel tolerated all yr arguements and polite religious insults for 8 eight pages. I wont. (mocking smile) after 8 pages somebody now wants to pray. Please.

@Bidam

And yes i will go to Jesus and ask Him if u would also go and ask Him if he spoke english in his time.

U are pathetic!
U said Jesus just said "Hell". Now lets see something. Matthew 5 vs 22 (in Jesus actual statement which was in Aramaic-Jews language form of combined greek and hebrew)Jesus tells people that anyone that says a word of contempt about his brother will be answerable to the governing body. But anyone that says that his brother is a fool, will be divinely handled is in danger of being sent to "GEHENNA". YOUR ENGLISH LANGUAGE CHANGED THAT WORD TO HELL OR HELL FIRE. Rather than letting somethings go, u guys still play yr childish attitude. Now go and research what i said. Pay for the cost if need be and dont just drop by with a lame verse.

Bidam: are you really a believer??..understanding scriptures is not about ur so called hebrews or greek text..it is with the help of the Holy Spirit...am saying the truth my conscience bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit..nobody taught me these things nor did i even rely on your greek expository..pls read 1john2:27..and stop analysing the bible like a budget or newspaper..As for seminaries or bible school..where do you see in scriptures that men have to go to bible school to be called??

Mr Bidam, this will be yr last time of questioning my beliefs. U have done this two times now.

When reading a newspaper story, u read a line or two without any personal investigations and open yr mouth like a person yawning when u see something shocking.

When STUDYING A NEWSPAPER STORY(i dont think folks like u care about that) u do more. U investigate a story. U make calls. U dont just conclude on the line or two stuff. U take yr stake higher.

And dont kid yrself. The holy spirit will always be willing to reveal stuff to people. But how will he do it when people like u are so sold out "to the way we are taught in church". Any knowledge that He gives that somehow does not flow with how u were taught, u people say its d devil and not the holy spirit that is talking EVEN WHEN WITHIN U, YR SPIRIT (IF U ARE A CHRISTIAN) AGREES WITH IT. U bind "that voice" and leave that study.

Yr bible told u in 2 Tim 2 vs15 to study to show yrself endorsed AND NOT JUST READ. U dont just conclude. U compare scriptures. U look for the first mention of a word. Since yr bibles was translated into english during european wars of conquest by the europeans, u look for original texts. U behave like people that Paul encountered in his travels that were men of reason that studied deeper than what they saw or read.

Atheists study and research. Occultists study and research on their vodoo. I hate to say this but muslims study and research to validate their doctrine. CHRISTIANS DONT. To them "God hates to be questioned". IF U DONT ASK QUESTIONS, HOW WILL GOD GIVE U ANSWERS?

@ frosbel

And yr rivalry with these people have turned this thread into a free for all fight. Scriptures thrown aimlessly everywhere while the main questions not answered. The crises of bible interpretation between the greek/hebrew and english has come to this place. Those that have gone to standard seminaries and colleges KNOW THE TRUTHS OF YR QUESTIONS BUT THEY HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING THAT THESE TRUTHS ARE NOT FOR THE PULPIT OR FOR EVANGELISM.

Those with sincere zeal for evangelism (and ofcourse those that cant wait to see their brothers who they have grudge against, burning alive), very understandably, will likely fight u in this thread.

Maybe yr questions should not have been posted to this open forum. But im wondering, does it mean that we christians dont study? The things people are posting really shocks me. Before u know it, atheists will come here and start talking crap.

Oh highyo! Shall we strike with the sword?

All good and evil implications of names exist only on earth. Even if u bear the name Lucifer, AND U DIE AS A CHRISTIAN, U WILL BE IN HEAVEN. If u bear the name Jesus (many in mexico bear it) and u are a sinner, u end up in hell.
What in God's graceful name are u saying?

@image123

And i did not say that "the bible says that God resurrected people just to kill them again". I was trying to draw something out from what John saw in his revelation to make him give the term "Second death".

@Image123

Now i dont know frosbel and if he is not a christian-it is his cup of tea. And personally, im not looking for an award in this thread. I dont typically like the religious section because its more of attacking people and pastors using bible passages rather than people learning from the bible.
Im not one of u religious folks. Im anti-religious. Christianity is more of RELATIONSHIP than religion. U are in an affair and any relationship that does not enjoy COMMUNICATION between the two (where they question themselves on things they are bothered about) will be off. In a true love relationship, u do things because u recognize u are a stake holder in the affair AND NOT BECAUSE U WILL BE DUMPED-IT IS VERY GENIUNE.

What got me attracted to this thread is (which u should confirm from yr STUDY bible) is frosbel exposed something that many preachers supposedly know but would not want to preach about because of how weak christians may justify backsliding. The true meaning of eternal torment and the lake of fire. He did not just take the term as it was but looked for what Jesus or Isaiah or John actually said when teaching about the term.

In the original versions (greece) of yr bible every portion u listed from Revelation chapters 14 and 20 and others (as a matter of fact every place where "smoke will rise forever and not be quenched" is used or "be tormented day and night forever and ever"), it uses the phrase "as in Gehenna" or simply"Gehenna". This was a place (made popular in greece empire)where things were burnt up and there where people whowere paid to ensure that things dumped there where burnt to bits by reheating the place so there was no time the place was not in flames and smoking. NOTHING SURVIVED GEHENNA.

In the parable of lazarus and the rich man, Jesus used the term "Hades" or "Hell" a place known for a terrible smell and fire. It was not really a place of destruction but a place of disgust and torment (it did not really exist physically so people coined it into a place bad people go in death).

Now anyplace u see God "reigning forever" or "worship Him forever and ever" etc...that is where it was used as it was. That was the source of hope and impression that life with all challenges was temporary. That there was going to be a time of permanent enjoyment with yr creator who on His own lives forever and people with Him would also live forever.

Now most known bibles carefully write the texts of the lake of fire (or hell fire) leaving its comparison to Gehenna out of it-mostly based on personal reasons of the authors. And that is where the confusion comes today. The hard hidden truth versus what "they told us". Its people that like to drive people to a place of fear before preaching the gospel that end up bringing more confusion.

People should stop emphasising on hell.

This is just sad. The painful reality of a hard "unknown" truth versus "what they have always taught us".
Please when studying yr bible-especially in "teaching passages" use a REFERENCE bible and as much as possible, look for the interpretation of given words or phrases from the Greek and Hebrew translation. U will be shocked to find out that some of yr "popular" scriptures are not what they are thought to mean.

What is happening here is just funny. After thirty questions which were mostly taken from research, u guys are just attacking the OP with verses that mostly agree to what the OP said IF INTERPRETED. Una dey even attack una selves now.
The Holy spirit has all the ability to interprete scripture but He can only do that to an independent mind. Many people are totally sold to the way their given churches have interpreted the bible.

@Image123
U wont be able to stand it for long here when name calling starts.
Stop refering to those answering u objectively as "gang" (in yr expression-"frosbel and his gang" )...

Its not about what makes sense. ITS ABOUT WHAT YR BIBLE SAYS.

What really is yr issue? Why repeating issues? Even citing Rev 14vs 11 is very annoying! Its the same term and expression used for the then destruction of Sodom (Jude 7) "eternal fire", "eternal torment" etc and SODOM IS NOT BURNING TODAY! (WHICH THE OP LISTED!) When u read a verse in yr bible-research on what the verse really means before coming here and re-listing bible verses.

Instead of u asking what a term or verse means, u throw it up again, against the explanation of the term. Pathetic.

truthislight: the case of samuel is a deceit from satan and his Demons.

That is why Yahweh commanded that those witches that satan use to deceive people should be sent out of Israel.

Saul did not see samuel with his eyes but depended on what the witch have to tell him and that is how and where satan play his tricks.

While samuel was alive he refuse to see Saul till he died.

God told him that he has rejected Saul and as such he samuel cannot go to Saul or passed any message to Saul.

Yahweh was no longer talking or having dealing with Saul.

Is it possible tha when Saul died he decided to disobey God? No.

Will God decide to start dealing with Saul after samuel has died and state using samuel at death? No.

Will Yahweh pass through a spirit medium that he has had chased and killed in Israel to pass a message to a rejected Saul? No.

Will a spirit medium be able to consult Yahweh? No.

Will Yahweh talk to the rejected Saul through a spirit medium? No.

So, from the fore going, is it true that the character that the medium described/brought forth was the dead samuel?
Judge for yourself.

Satan is behind the immortality of the soul doctrine and he and is Demons uses spirit medium to also spread it.

The dead are silent. Psalm 115:17.
Peace

True.