₦airaland Forum

asha 80: katsumoto i think we have had this argument before.for us to have a restructuring of this country there has to be monumental crises of the nature of pre-67 or June 93 effect before it can happen.expecting political leaders existing within the present political structure to change it is like wishing pigs would fly.

Katsumoto: If you restructure the federation along regional lines, you will end up a smaller house of rep, a smaller senate, a legislative with proper checks and balance, protection for minorities, and reduce NASS spending.

You need the senate or upper house.

Katsumoto: At the end of the day - the initial hot debate about ACN policies and progress has been swept under the carpet. So also was the discussion about DemDem's SNC and restructuring of the federation.

Katsumoto: Demdem,

I agree with your post. But one shouldn't wait until he has money to buy BMW 7 series when he can buy a Ford Taurus today and be mobile today. He can still buy the BMW later. Like they say, ati Thursday lati ma mo ti Weekend ba ma dun. Let them start from somewhere. That action may then garner pace resulting in a SNC.

If you wait for a SNC, one may wait forever.

But if the ford taurus keeps on breaking down every now and then, u sleeping in ur mechanic shop everynight coming home with enough complaints from ur wife when u know that a little time sacrifice on ur part now if u work hard will make u afford a BMW 7 series by the next quarter, wont u sell or get rid of such a deadly taurus. The truth is with this taurus, there is no rest, no peace, no infrastructure, peeps are poorer, security none etc why wait any further and hope for a better tommorrow with the same deadly taurus

we are the people. if we all in one accord rise up and demand for it now, its acheivable and can be accomplished. To me, whatever we are doing right now is a waste of time and resources. we ask for it in our country and we get it. the reason why we havent so far is because we are not united about it.

shymexx: I like the banter you add to every thread, you're a very funny bloke..

My point is, if they could find a working 'formula' in Lagos to increase the IGR from 600millions, to 18billion, and now at about 38billion... Then, they shouldn't have a problem using the same formula in the other SWern states... That means they should have enough money to cater for the needs of SWerners(not all comers)

I think Akanbi_Edu explained how much these people spend to get elected/selected, and I don't envy them for trying to get their money back by any means necessary... I don't think you can fault them on that, it's the system that needs a complete overhaul!

Katsumoto: Of course not, we are probably in different timezones and as such, you may be at lunch while I am on my way to work or just starting.

Abeg no vex o.

cantell: Lol. Are you?

Katsumoto: The issue with the SNC is that it is likely to have the same representation as the house of reps and senate.

Likely but not necessary so if we work towards it. This has alaways been the fear but i feel the risk is worth taking. A gathering of just politicians is inadequate. it has to cut across a wide spectrum who will need to send representations (professional bodies, religious bodies, private sectors etc and of cos various ethnic groups)

People have known for a long time that the foundation of Nigeria is shaky.

The main reason why we ought to go back to that foundation and address it. Lets ask ourselves first if we really want to be together. Thats a good starting point.

Those who are bent on leading others should strategize and formulate policies to be implemented as soon as they are in office. You don't wait until you are in office before you start strategizing. Witness how Obama started with the Healthcare Act as soon as he was elected.

The ACN may not have a majority but it still has a sizeable portion of the NASS. And as such, it should have or should reach out to others across the country that it wants to re-organize. If it fails, then it becomes wiser on how to reach alliances and the people can see who/what the problem is/are.

It is not that difficult. Start with sponsoring a bill, see how far you can go. A first test will enable you to know how many people to reach out to, to get a majority to change the law. This is easier considering that a majority of NASS members go to Abuja to collect their entitlements and sleep.

The issues at stake are far beyond what then NASS can tackle. For instance, some of my countrymen desire that we go back to regional government as it was in the first repulblic, some are asking for a confederal state, some are asking for 100% resource control directly to them first and then they give a certain percentage to the central govt etc. These are the basis and conditions of being together. the structure that will become our dream Nigeria. They are basically asking for the re-writing of a constitution that was written for us by IBB and co which will fully reflect how we really wnat to be governed.
The best the NASS can do is so ammend the constitution even at that there is a limit to hat they can ammend. For instance they cant ammend the constitution to scrap states to give birth to regional governments who will deem it fit to create whatever number of states they so desire in their region.
Botttom line is the issue at stake is far beyond the NASS

Sky Blue: The inputs into a political process include among other things - people, idealogies, parties. Let us pick people for a moment. These people come from a context and part of what form of shape their thoughts include formal education, society, etc. Let us pick formal education for a moment. Education can be seen as a process. Inputs into this process includes people, ideas, a method or template for transferring those ideas, and a criteria or standard for gauging an understanding of those ideas which judges whether people that have gone in as an input into the process are good enough to come out and be input to other processes like government, businesses, civil society, etc. Does being literate mean one is educated? We could pull the thread further but hopefully you see where i am coming from. How many of those three or so processes i picked out as examples down the line run effectively? You CANNOT ignore THIS and say you want to build something that will last, it is what will differentiate between building something that lasts for five years, and a system that continuously improves itself. You NEED to think long term and stop treating the symptoms as causes.

Back to an earlier point you made. Democracy is not a purely western concept. The fundamentals of it has existed in one or two african societies I can think of before Eurpeans even got here. The key thinjg is the ESSENCE of democracy. The how you achieve it is different. Pointing out that other countries practise the particular system we use does not mean they all practise it exactly the same. For whatever reason we have been stuck with this particular way of practising it, but the good thing about the system is that it can be modified to reflect the values of the people that practise it. We can be a confederation of different units, a collection of states, etc. If you want a completely novel system then feel free to produce it, but the thing is, how feasible would it be to start from scratch considering the nature of such a fundamental change? We don't always have to reinvent the wheel to progress, there are different types of wheels for different purposes. Car tyres are different from bicycle tyres. Even between cars, a formula one racing tyre is different from that of a domestic car. The wheel was not reinvented for that, it was just modified to suit different purposes.

The major thing I agree with you on is the need for Nigeria to sit down and actually stop playing ostrich, but talk about what we want as a nation if we are to continue as one. This is important. Beyond that, I think we need to delve deeper to the heart of the matter

Katsumoto: Demdem

I was away for a while, you do know people have jobs right? I will attend to your question.

u are basically saying am jobless

Katsumoto: Gbawe and Desola,

Can I appeal to you both to please sheath your swords?

O ri ido bale ni mo wa?

Sky Blue: Here are somethings to consider, this is a system that is used in some way in a good number of successful countries.

yeah it worked and working for them because there was a particular time in their national life when the sat down and discussed on how they would love to be governed, the structure they desire and terms of their togetherness. The one we earlier had have been forcefully taken from us.Besides we are different people, because it worked for them doesnt mean it will work for us. For example, they cherish gays, we dont


Another thing to consider is this - "Input -- Process -- Output". Two most important things in that basic but powerful cycle are input and process, get those right and output would be generally fine. In most cases (and this isn't different), the input to a process is the output to a previous process. Extrapolate to the nth degree.

Am not quite sure if i fully grasp what u are trying to say here but eh what input will come from a faulty basis. An input filled with malice, distrust, selfishness, grudge, bigotry of all sorts etc even with the best of process will still bring a gabage output.


Point three. A lot of the times the people largely get what they want. When fuel subsidy was removed people rose up. What else has united the country like that in this fourth republic?

Probably the selfish few politicians and power brokers. Most times, the vast majority dont. The subsidy u talked about inclusive. the people demanded a return back to status quo, did they get it? What eventually gets to the people are dejected crumbs which some will see and rejoice. i refuse to be a part.

I want you to consider these things before we delve deeper.

Actually, i have.

cheddarking: Why does he exist?

Why is he a mod?

Why is he so tyranical?

Why is he so stupid?

You may have noticed that a lot of people have commented about the waste-of-space...

You are known to be one of the likeable mods on here, and I know you often arrange Muslim meetings, so I guess you might have met him...

You might just be the best person other than Seun to understand why this guy has driven this guy in his quest to attain Public-enemy No.1 status on Nairaland...

Sky Blue: Oshiomole is an interesting character though. To be honest I was quite suprised when I heard him speak during one of these BRACED whatever (video on youtube), he showed a good understanding of the problems facing the task of governance and the citizenry at large. And he isn't the first politician that has broken that illusion of 'they are all greedy pigs' either - there have been a good number of them. It just got me to thinking, so what does this man need to really suceed in his state and how can we give it to him? And to be honest although it is good to fight against people who don't have the people's interest at heart, although it is good to give constructive criticism where necessary, it is also good to see how we as citizens can work together with responsible governments to help them succeed. Because at the end of the day only a blind fool won't want government to succeed because if government's fail WE lose out. We need mmore cooperation to achieve shared goals. If a system continues producing rubbish, the problem is almost certainly the system.

Murphy T: demdem, u talk as if u havnt been in this country, how many ministers hav refunded money unused in their ministry, isnt it beta for min of info to utilize it, and enlighten nigerians.

Sky Blue: It is quite interesting though, because Akpaibo's magic seems to have kicked into full gear in thi his second term. The political process itself might need modifications. One thing I hope we never copy from a country like America is the ammount of influence money has in politics. Hate them or love them, but that is one area where Britain's political system is better than America's

Sky Blue: Ditto, and the state needs alternatives. But would you have asked the state to throw him out during his first term because he was a PDP governor? This thing has to transcend parties on such affiliations it really does. It is not so neat as people like to think and I guess the reson I am acdtually posting is because I realise I might have been nodding along thinking we were essentially saying the same thing. But just realised we might not be at all. LOOL.

Sky Blue: You can't turn this into a partisan affair because then it simply falls apart completely (and honestly it would be a bit disappointing). This cannot be about PDP out another party in because unfortunately, it does not fit into that neat little box of yours in reality. Akpaibo of Akwa Ibom has been working impressively in his state (he just isn't as much of a media governor as say Fashola) and he is a PDP governor. Amaechi has also brought improvement into different areas of Rivers State (education being an obvious one), all in first term and he is PDP, Chime has been working in Enugu and he is PDP. So what do you say to people in those states then? Get rid of these guys that have been working for you because they don't belong to a "progressive party"? The issue has to be good governancer and cooperation and how the people can work about bringing that, not party affiliations.

Fixed
Am not encouraged about what Amaechi is currently doing this second tenure despite my support for him. He is disappointing me big time

Sky Blue: It is possible to cooperate and be in different parties. South south states are trying to do that now, with Oshiomole being from a different party than the rest. What I am trying to refute is this selling of competitiveness as a panacea to good governance because honestly if this is what we have been saying all along then I strongly disagree. Continuously improving the alternatives is important, having alternatives is good, but contrary to what people like to think what makes the world work well in places it really works is cooperation. America is at a gridlock in both houses because politicians can't see beyond their nose and stupid partnership. If one is struggling for freedom from what is Nigeria then that is a different matter. But as long as units still exist in Nigeria, we need to learn to work together as local government unots cooperating, regions building themselves up, and regions also working together. So many examples exist of this in the world. I don't want to ramble on, I was just challenging that 'competition is key' mantra, that is all. I can talk more at length and indepthly on this but don't want to bore you. It is the very reason a country like Japan is an absolute FORCE to be reckoned with in the world in terms of productivity, etc.

Murphy T: every ministry has budget allocation, if min of info decides to use some of thiers in carryin out a tour to tell Nigerians wot d govt has done or is doing and seek thier opinion, i think itz not bad..no extra money is allocated for the tour.

Katsumoto: Do you seriously think ACN is going to win SUBSTANTIALLY in other regions?

ACN should start working on alliances with others to re-organize the foundation of Nigeria. If there are good guys in ACN, then there must be good guys in other parties too, even if they are crowded out.

Talk is cheap. When are they going to start the process? 2015, 2019, 2023? The time to strike is now, when the iron is hot. There are many issues in Nigeria today that a charismatic leader can use. Without re-organization, whatever good that ACN believes it is doing can easily be undone. 2015 is around the corner, the enemy is not sleeping.

Katsumoto: Ok Alhaji

Katsumoto: But cooperation requires competition which is borne out of inter-organizational rather than intra-organizational relationships.

Second, multi-party competition is better (Akeredolu vs Mimiko) than intra-party competition (IBB v Atiku v GEJ).

Just my opinion.

Sky Blue: A mantra I don't wholly subsribe too. Having alternatives is very important, but competition on the sacrifice of cooperation is silly in my view and makes the people lose out. Won't want to get too much into it right now.

Desola: Too right about that. As much as I initially wanted the whole of SW (including Kwara) to go ACN, I realised that having Labour in Ondo was actually a blessing because it is giving the ACN something to fight for and even refreshing to know that they would have to prove their good works to the Ondo people to persuade them to let go of Labour. If Ekiti succeeds, then Mimiko might soon be shaking in his boots but the Ondo people would not be fooled by this song of regional progress to just hand their mandate to ACN on a platter.

Labour to retain Ondo and perhaps gain another SW state. Now, that would bring competition and each party would know that performance is KEY!

Katsumoto: Alhaji Demdem, we are going around in circles here o . You said Tinubu is not the Yoruba leader and I agreed. Now you are saying that there is no way Tinubu would not be invited to a Yoruba congress. Are you expecting me to disagree with that? He is currently the most politically astute political leader in the SW if not the whole country.

Desola: Brother, that is all that I hope for. For us to long for better and not be complacent and think that ACN has brought us to the promised land. ACN could be so much more but it is sad that some wants to force feed us into thinking that ACN has delivered even when they haven't even tipped the iceberg!

The ACN apologists need to give up harping on the evils of the PDP as a cover up for their mediocrity and get working. My fear is that they are being lackadasikal and I fear that with their current lack-lustre performance, the evil party might come from behind and steal the people's mandate. If what Akanbi edu has expressed earlier is anything to go by, then the region is not totally delivered if people's conscience hasn't been bought over by good works, transformation, direct impact. It shouldn't all be about recouping your investment, it shouldn't be about retaining power by all means and goodness knows that the disrespect of thinking voters are mere puppets who only needs to be thrown a bone to be controlled needs to stop. Yes, people might be hungry and yes, the first thing on their minds might be money to feed their families but when people see little changes that makes the community around them conducive, where basic amenities are no longer like gold, no amount of money would buy their votes. People do have conscience and ultimately, they don't want to be scrums of the earth who receive peanut. Inside them somewhere lies dignity and if you give them this, they would never take a million from PDP to buy their votes.

ACN needs to start working on the conscience of the people. Provide what is necessary, give people room to aspire and no amount would buy their votes. ACN would never have to worry about PDP because he people would know what is right.

Katsumoto: I don't believe any rational poster suggested that Tinubu is the Yoruba leader.

Desola: It's not like you have any choice, anyway. ACN are here till 2015 at least.

Murphy T: now u r talkin, all dis guys r part of the tour, infact it is thier idea, the ministry of information is just acting like a medium as usual to propagate the developments, the SA project implementatn tells the president, while min of info tells nigerians