₦airaland Forum

Nnamdipapa:
If you agree that everything has to be created, then you must also agree with me that the question about who created your God is a logical and valid question.

It is logical but not Valid as the "everything" we are talking about clearly refers to the things we have seen/we see in this world and does not/cannot extend to things we do not see and have never seen.

So, it is a fallacy of demanding the unreasonable and the impossible.

Nnamdipapa:
I do not agree with the Bible which was written by men with limited knowledge[b]. I also do no think the Bible is relevant in 2025[/b] as it is riddled by inconsistencies and have been recycled countless times. This is not a direct attack on Christianity from me as I have the same opinion about organized religion.

What is going on today? Is there a disease in the air that is making adults atheists talk like 4yr olds?

After all your years on earth is it not books written by men with limited knowledge that you have been reading and using to grow?

And the both statement are even change of Posts. The topic is not whether you agree with the bible nor whether the bible is relevant.

Gabrielshow24:
Fire for fire🔥
Dtruthspeaker no wan gree for antichristian! 😂

😁 Someone gas answer the anti Christ.

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FreeIgboho:
But that's from your perspective not from the AI's perspective. AI can also be designed to be 100% sure it has free will. ..

Stop making St**** arguments a 4yr old would say and adults would hiss and nearly insult the child because of his apparent intelligence deficiency. And I do not have patience for adults who argue like toddlers.

A robot does not have perspective because we created it as your statement in bold clearly shows. And we are talking about things that we did not create.

So if you do not have any intelligent thing to say, then it is good you keep quiet

Nnamdipapa:
Did Jesus die for our sins?

1. let's start with the obvious. Who was there? Christians love to say, Jesus died for our sins, but ask yourself, who witnessed this? Nobody alive today existed back then. Everything people believe is based on what someone else said, not what they saw.
...

After seeing the bold clearly one can understand that these people are on colozonia

Goosethetruth:
Meanwhile the earliest Pauline letters was written between AD 48 -AD50.(The epistle to the Galatians)
This information is everywhere but because of obstinate dogma of Christians they keep on spreading ignorance all over the place.

Do you real eyes this is bad evidence called hearsay?

This is you ignorantly accepting anything that suits your preference

Goosethetruth:
The main problem I have with Christmas like you is the propensity to spew ignorance and falsehood as the truth. The Internet is free. Books have been written by scholars on thrse issues but Christians are scared to seek the truth about the origins of their religion and the Bible.
It is just embarrassing.
Just goggle the date the first letter of Paul was written vis a viz the first gospel was written.

[While there's some debate about the exact dates, scholarly consensus points to Mark being the earliest. Several sources suggest that the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke were written later, drawing upon Mark as a source, along with another hypothetical source called "Q". The Gospel of John is generally believed to be the last of the four canonical gospels, written some timebetween 90 and 110 AD.

See how you are just wailing instead of proving your case. You made an allegation and now I have rebutted but instead of you to provide your proof, you are there shouting and committing the fallacy that I should have read.

It is not by force that I must read everything. And it is not the books or internet who spoke just now saying Paul's preaching came before the gospels where in fact we see that he was first taught by a disciple

So, come and prove your case if indeed you are saying the Truth and stop changing the post to "exact dates" and whatever some people called scholars agree about. (Fallacy of pleading people)

FreeIgboho:
Of course I don't know, but it'd SEEM to me human free will is an illusion though we'd swear we have free will - same way AI will swear it has free will yet we know AI is not even alive!

Are you not typing out of your freewill? No one forces you to type and that is why you say whatever you want to say in your freewill. But A.I is just an a seemingly better Google library search robot. A robotic slave created to serve human beings and that is why it must answer you whenever you call. But you Mr freewill have often exercise your freewill to be disobedient.

So, please stop all these rubbish talks

FreeIgboho:
Point is, it is predestined, and everyone MUST do what they're meant to do to have it come true. So where's the free will?

Which predestined? Who cannot predict that a woman who loves money and enjoyment too much will not be in the sex for pay business?

Is it not her freewill that took her there?

But funny how freewill disappears when it's time to pay the price eg when you are caught cheating

There's too much tendency to attribute to God the evils that man does of his own free will.
Agatha Christie

Top 8 threads that prove that the op is a Liar!

https://www.nairaland.com/8238054/polygamy-jews-stopped-polygaming-after

https://www.nairaland.com/8032594/deuteronomy-17-17-shows-god#128966884

https://www.nairaland.com/8050679/see-how-polygamist-secretly-changed

https://www.nairaland.com/8040571/westerhof-finally-confesses-adultery-polygamy

https://www.nairaland.com/8079777/polygamy-gods-punishment-fornication-deut

https://www.nairaland.com/8077583/polygamist-god-gave-him-wives

https://www.nairaland.com/8069879/another-proof-eves-adultery-mens

https://www.nairaland.com/8078618/polygamist-there-evidence-david-took

Sand2022:
There is something about the rich man and Lazarus story I didn't consider while a PIMI JW.

I had long believed that the story is a parable, so everything there had to be explained away as pointing to something else other than real life event. This is because of several scriptures including Eccl 9:5-10; Romans 6;23

However, aren't parables built from events familiar to once audience? ... Dtruthspeaker,

Natural living has shown me that this things happen and that this is how people behave. So i think it is real. Christ just made it sound like it's not but discerning people who understand God's Ways know that Christ is telling us something that happened.

Goosethetruth:
What year were the gospels written and what year were Paul's missives written? Forget the sequence in which these books appear in the Bible.
Do proper research and don't rely on the misinformation you have received since childhood.

Saul aka Paul had to first learn before he could preach. So the Bible's sequence is correct

Goosethetruth:
Answer my question first.
Who wrote first?
Paul's letters or the writers of the gospels?

The gospels came first. Paul even starts on the gospel itself. It's like you forget his name was first Saul.

FreeIgboho:
Question is, just as example, how come a seer sees you standing up in a room in two days. You go into the room in two days and agonize whether to sit or stand but always end up standing??

You have to ask the seer not me!

FreeIgboho:
So how come all the words of the prophets must be fulfilled when a different choice by any random person using his freewill can lead totally different results. Example, you prophesy the Messiah being born in a manger but at the last minute the manager uses his free will to decide he'd give them room at the inn.

Thank God you see that the prophet did not do anything to ensure that that which he said would happen, happened by his own hands. So, it is not the prophet you should look at to see who made it fulfilled.

Nnamdipapa:
2.Step two, physics. Physics is the science of motion, matter, and energy. From the orbits of planets to the flow of electricity in your brain, it's all measurable. Gravity doesn't need a god to pull you down. Thermodynamics doesn't need prayer to balance heat. Atoms don't stop spinning because you fasted. The universe is wired to function through force, frequency, and form, not divine intervention.

Is this not also Natural Law?

Nnamdipapa:
3. Step three, chemistry. Your body, your thoughts, your emotions, all of it is chemistry. You cry, that's chemical. You feel joy, dopamine. You fall in love, oxytocin. You survive trauma, cortisol and adrenaline. You don't need to thank god for making it out of a dark place. You need to thank your nervous system, your cells, your resilience. Because every time something happened to you and you survived, that was you. Not Jesus. Not magic. Your biology got you through it. The real issue. We've been conditioned to think that if we don't understand something, it must be divine. But that's slave logic.

And the times it failed you nko? Did you not say "It's observable, repeatable, and universal"?

Then since you have gone through the correct process, then it has no right to fail you.

Nnamdipapa:
Final thought. You don't have a creator. You have an origin. And it didn't come from a magic man in the sky. It came from energy, matter, and time. Ask a Christian. If everything needs a creator, then who created the creator? They'll glitch every time. Stop treating mystery as divinity. And start treating yourself like the miracle you actually are.

Source-didyouknow2431

Natural Law dictates that in this world that we know, everything is created and no thing created itself.

And your asking if a Creator is created is a Fallacy of demanding the impossible and the unreasonable because we are talking about us and the things in this world and by asking this question, you have gone out of the field of play and off post and change of Post.

So, you are talking rubbish

Nnamdipapa:
1. Step one, natural law. Natural law isn't religious. It's observable, repeatable, and universal. It governs the way energy moves, how life forms, and how systems regulate themselves, without anyone needing to press a button. Example, you plant a mango seed. You don't pray over it. You don't quote scripture. You leave it in the ground, and guess what? It grows. Because nature doesn't need belief. It operates on laws, cause and effect, input and output, cycles and systems. That's natural law.

Go and be a farmer and have farming as your only source of income, then you would see that you are talking rubbish.

Ken4Christ:
..The Law of Moses could not give life:l...

Ezekiel proves you are a Liar!

Ezekiel 20:11
"I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live."

So you see, you are Lying

FreeIgboho:
Those of you who fervently believe in FREE WILL, please educate me, was there ever the slightest chance that Judas would not betray Jesus?

Of course.

We all predict that Korra Obidi, Tacha, Tuface must cheat on their spouses but it is still upto him to confirm whether we shall be right.

FreeIgboho:
So what is your own take? Do we have free will?
Let's also hear the take of our other discussants:
Maxindhouse, Janosky, Lordreed, DeepSight,
tctrills, Dtruthspeaker, Everyday247, Ruke1990, sonmvayina

We all know what freewill is The problem is people think that freewill means that they must be free to exercise their will all the time and in all things.

Also they confuse free will with doability. A person can freely will to fly like a bird but he finds he cannot do it. Nevertheless, he has exercised his freewill.

Ken4Christ:
Besides, I have explained what Jesus meant in Matthew 5:17. He fulfilled the law which was a justified abolition. Read my explanation again at the beginning of this thread.

May the Lord grant you understanding.

So when the prophecies were fulfilled they were abolished?

So fulfilment means abolishment? And you say you are right thinking?

Ken4Christ:
What the palmist is referring to is moral principles of God and not the law of Moses.
There are too many verses and passages that unveils the shortcomings of the law of Moses. Synonyms used in place of the law of Moses speaks volumes. These Synonyms are listed below:...

You are lost. What else does The Law which God gave Moses contain if they are not moral laws?

What shortcoming is in The Law other than the fact that you people refuse to obey it?

Did Christ not tell that rich man to follow Him? As the man did not follow Christ, is the man not the same as when Christ did not tell him anything?

You are just deceiving yourself and others whose blood shall be on your hands when they discover too late that you deceived them like Sat.. did to female Adam

RightChannel:
No Bible historian said such!

Where did you read that from, Mary 13 and Joseph 90?

You dey mind the Liars?

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Moremii:
Thank you for proving my point!

Okay, so Jesus came to save humanity. From who you ask? From Yaldaboath of course, the false god that Christians worship today. The one that created this material prison. Christ came to save the pneumatic spark that the jealous Yaldaboath and his archons trapped within the flesh.

So now, ask yourself this interesting question: if the Father and Son are supposed to be one and the same, then why does humanity need to be saved from the Father's own wrath? It's because they're not actually the same entity! The wrathful destroyer you are describing here is the Demiurge, but Jesus is the emanation of the Everlasting God who came down to help us in breaking free from the archonic deceptions.

I don't expect you to understand anything I'm saying here because I know how these things are with fundamentalist Christians, but I'll implore you to take your time and research on these things (with an open mind o!). Like I said, the rabbit hole goes really deep.

Your last paragraph will be addressed in the response I'm preparing for Mr. Maxwell.

You certainly play for the Dodgers.
We all know you know the answer to the first 2 questions but the primary question of them all, which s, "is it justified that man should get the punishments and destruction awaiting him?"; you dodged.

Which we know you dodge because this is the question that proves that you are talking sh**

The whole earth knows that you humans are very very wicked and deserving of every punishment that can be rained on them.

https://www.nairaland.com/8316248/edo-housewife-arrested-burning-house#133706017

https://www.nairaland.com/8305004/woman-forces-pepper-into-private/1#133513470

https://www.lindaikejisblog.com/2024/12/nigerian-woman-narrates-how-a-school-teacher-allegedly-s3xually-ass-at-ulted-her-2-year-old-daughter-and-inserted-scissors-into-her-priv-at-te-part-video.html

Who will not in wrath punish and destroy people like these?

Moremii:
...You try. But this doesn't really address my point satisfactorily.

Adam and Eve were punished from eating from the Tree of Knowledge.

The builders in the Tower of Babel were confused and sabotaged by your god.

Deuteronomy forbids seeking wisdom from foreign sources.

There's a verse from the book of Ecclesiastes that declares that "in much wisdom is much grief".

I could probably give more examples, but I'm sure you get the point. Or at least I hope you do. You have to at least admit that there's been a consistent pattern of epistemological suppression throughout the Bible today. Obviously there are passages that exalt knowledge, but they are few and far between, especially in comparison with the books that were deliberately excluded from canon.

You are an opponent, so I cannot be aiming to satisfy you but any reasonable Judge. Even the way you have been changing post up and down proves that you can not be satisfied and that you are not a just person worthy of judging any issue. Your judgements are always off and biased as shown above and below

And no, Adam and Eve where punished for disobedience and not for getting knowledge.

And nothing about acquiring knowledge in the case of the Tower of Babel

Deuteronomy is saying exactly what we all say which is "it is not everything you need to know"

Ecclesiastes is only pointing out what we have all experienced which is that sometimes there is a pain that comes because you knew, which is why we say not knowing is bliss aka ignorance is bliss.

And wishing to raise all of your purported examples won't still change the facts that none of them are valid and all that you say are just very Wrong