₦airaland Forum

nemesis8u:
This is a sequence of events -

You claimed something

A fellow countrymen of urs posts info to puncture the claim

Then u post data which suits ur pov, made up claims and a funny " science & tech story " to prop up ur story and ironically defend ur " pride "

I then replied to puncture " the science & tech story " . My entire point was on " Speciality steel & composites keeps weight down with increased protection. " to counter your claim that increased armour will increase weight and reduce speed.

Then u replied with F= ma cock and bull logic among others to skirt the real point of contention and obviously ending with my pride as the big issue lol

Fair enough considering many people appreciated and agreed to ur post .

But this changes things now and having being reminded maybe I have after all some pride and so best leave u guys to talk about " science & tech " & " f=ma ".

Come on nemesis8u, it's not a fight now, we are proving military science to entertain & inform our dear readers.

My countryman didn't puncture my claim. I asked "how many MRAPS do you see resist above 14 kg under hull?"

I NEVER said none exists above 14kg TNT.

He said actually proved me right by finding only one such on the planet and said Yuktirath MPV ; or do you know up to five such MRAPs?

We find only 1 out of like 100 MRAP types, shows my 'how many ?' is very correct.

Ah !!! It's me that first mentioned composite armour not you o nemesis !!!
In my answer to Yuktirath 45kg I said only alternatives like ceramics (used in composite mix) can let Yuktirath MPV gain 3 times increased resistance above Casspir. Please don't steal my own points and claim it as yours o!

Don't be angry that I said there is NO official factory OEM data on Yuktirath MPV to prove me wrong and you right, that's the truth that destroys all your claims of correctness : dear brother, no vex because truth is bitter.

Indian Pride is not a crime. I love India, those your fine girls, flat belly, figure 8, 'red dot 4 love' on their foreheads, sweet !!!

nemesis8u:
First thought best to ignore , but then what the heck best rescue science and technology for the last time lol.



Yukthrat is inspired from casspir same as other casspir class MPV / MRAP around the world.

One cannot simply copy , which u implied and yet come up with the best in class specs for an MPV / MRAP .

Can one copy metallurgical capabilities , ballistic / stress / shock etc modeling and analysis skills , automotive engineering capabilities , structural / material engineering capabilities , fabrication and process engineering , material joining etc etc ?

It requires decades of research and work in core sciences and engineering to bear fruit across relevant products which one is trying to develop.



Lol

Anyways allow me to introduce u to composites and speciality steels.

I am not aware which type of steel they r using since it is not revealed but let me give of one of the many options eg HNS ( nickel free high nitrogen steel ) it has low weight , non magnetic , better ballistic and blast protection compared to even RHA ( rolled homogeneous armour ) that is used in MBTs that too with reduced thickness , etc etc , developed and produced locally.

Aditya was the first MPV / MRAP and could resist 14 kg TNT under the wheel and 10 kg under hull .

It was inducted with police / paramilitary for anti Maoists ops and performed well saving lives untill the fuking Maoists figured out the protection ratings of the MPV and decided to increase the size of their IEDs by 10+ times.

80 kg, 120kg upwards TNT equivalent IEDs destroyed Aditya , the MPVs would be flung up in the air due to the pressure type IEDs being used leading to death of concussed and unconscious personnel's inside due to impact , the MPVs were withdrawn and transferred to CT units fighting jihadis . Use of MPV / MRAP was prohibited since the size of the IEDs being used was powerful enough to incapacitate a tank. Tactics was changed to on foot patrolling in danger zones.



Using ur argument against you

https://www.pressreader.com/india/commercial-vehicle/20120417/281681136867679

Since actual top speed is 85 km/hr and not 50 km/hr as is mistakenly mentioned in the article u posted. so now ur entire argument falls flat .

What's the difference between MPV and MRAP ?

Practically zero . Both are interchangeable terms . Depends on the OEM on what term they choose to use.

Yuktirath MPV has considerable number of orders , including repeat orders. 1200+ produced / orders for Aditya / Yuktirath combine. Slow down orders were issued because MPVs were being withdrawn from CI ops for reasons I mentioned above. Won an international tender against casspir and an American MRAP.



That source u posted is wrong wrt the top speed , the writer mistook the cruise ( patrol ) speed of 50 km/hr as the top speed . Yuktirath top speed is 85 km/hr . ( Google it if u want )


MRAPs / MPVs r not part of IA ORBAT .

They are used only in

1. CI ops ( Maoists ) and by the police in the jungles but since long they withdrew MPVs from ops because Maoists started using 80+ kg IEDs.

2. CT ops ( Jihadis ) and by RR units / police to provide protection against jihadi stone pelters or sniper fire or suprise ambush by small arms during contact in urban areas mostly. Other uses r there eg during movement in or out of a base a empty MPV runs ahead of the convoy fitted with combined MRPI and jammers etc to provide protection. IEDs r rare in jihadi prone areas due to tight intelligence , constant patrolling and threat of quid pro quo action across the border.



I don't think it is about science and technology , it is basically about how u got mislead by incorrect information. Top speed is 85 km/hr not 50 km/hr.

Composite materials and speciality steels like HNS helps to reduce weight while providing far greater protection and required speeds.

Again repeating MPV and MRAP nomenclature is interchangeable . Depends entirely on the OEM.



Yuthirath uses composites on the sides

Yuthirath is able to defeat 7.62 x 51 NATO ball / AP , 7.62 x 39 steel core , 7.62 x 54R API



" Looks " ?

Lol



The situation is more akin to inadequate knowledge of science.



Composites and speciality steels r the better alternatives as of now.

I am not upto date but AFAIK as I know ceramic for armouring is difficult because of poor adhesion property . Maybe things have changed.

And end note how much IED protection one puts on a MRAP / MPV end of the day it is going to lose vis a vis IEDs which exceed the protection level. If terrrorists starts deploying 50 kg or 100 kg TNT equivalent IEDs by simply adding more explosives no MRAP / MPV gonna survive if it gets hit by the IED.

Naaaa, I've been long enough on this forum to know Indian man @nemesis8u defending Indian products for sake of national pride

Hello nemesis8u, hope you are in good spirits and all is well with you.

Here's my reply Bro –

There is NO official specs & tech data on Yuktirath MPV published by its manufacturer Ordinance Factory Board ! This destroys all your claims of being correct.

Be mature Bro, take some words loosely on a mere forum - 'copy' doesn't mean 100% exactly similar copy, that will be a clone - 'looks like', means seems like.

We are all quoting private media sources that write different data. Nothing makes your claims right and mine wrong.

I have read all publications on Yuktirath before I wrote, so nothing new to me in your long story.

Media publications clearly and correctly say India copied Casspir to make Aditya & Yuktirath, you deny and say it was used as inspiration not copied. Whom are you fooling Bro? We may be Africans but not ignorant. India bought many Casspirs, years later made Yuktirath designed so much like Casspir, same thing India did to South African NTW anti-material rifle. You copied Casspir

I say ceramic is 3 times price of steel in armouring, yes am right, check market prices. Your long story on composite is repeating common knowledge from internet my brother

I have debated tired on composites including ceramic type face to face with MRAP manufacturers, they all say - too expensive, major repairs impossible, whole panel or vehicle often writen off, etc.

F = ma & a = F/m Newtons 2nd law. No way you increase resistance to more kg of TNT, you must increase steel armour, that increases weight, that increases m = mass, that reduces a = acceleration speed of vehicle.

All these are simple basic science of physics I don't need to write to prove my statement that once the Indian OEM factory OFB increases Yuktirath armour to resist 3 times Casspir TNT the Yuktirath must reduce something, like speed, hull body armour, or factory OEM played game of using composites like the ceramics I said costs 3 times more money.

Above are the ways you can have same vehicle weight as other MRAPs and yet resist like 3 times explosive TNT. There is no magic in landmine explosive resistance, MRAPs are not magical, its all largely a game of varied thickness and strength of materials used in making these vehicles.

As long as a published report says max speed is 50km, and no official factory data counters it, you cannot say it's wrong. Your preferred source of 85km is just as unofficial as mine.

Mine makes sense by law of physics, so I quoted it.

Ambush Protection in MRAP :

It's your India that calls their MRAP a MPV, the rest of the world does not interchange it, and India is not world standard on MRAP, it's the South Africa that invented it, next is America.

I notice all Indian made MPVs lack Ambush Protection essentials of MRAPs :

Speed 100km to 150km
&
Hull armour 7.62mm AP to 14.5mm AP

Many South African, American, Russian, Israeli MRAPs have variants with these special ambush survival and escape essentials of speed to escape & body armour thickness to resist bullets. Indian vehicles focus on land mines, so more of MPV Mine Protected Vehicles than Ambush Protected.

This Ambush Protection issue offends your national pride, well no vex o !

As long as some media publications say Yuktirath hull resists 7.62mm Ball bullets you cannot say they are wrong because you saw one that says Armour Piercing 7.62mm AP. You selected only data that promotes your national pride.

Dear @nemsis8u, be proud of India but also be honest and not claim I am wrong you only are right, when there is NO official data from manufacturer to prove anything.

No offense Bro. Do have a lovely weekend.

youghs:
Yuktirath MRAP would survive it tho, 35kg under hull and 42kg under wheel.

Please who knows IED resistance capacity of Oshkosh JLTV or M-ATV?

Well, my question was how many? Only 1 or 2 ? Among so many MRAP types?

Aditya variants up to Yuktirat are all based on same Casspir that is one of the best in the world MRAPs, India imported and copied Casspir.

If they double Casspir IED spec, they have compromised another spec to gain that one.

Is Yuktirat a practical MRAP? Notice its called MPV. Records no army uses it except maybe India that made it and got like 250 since 10 years ago while buying like 1,500 of others.

A source says its maximum speed is only 50 kmh, so what's the practical cruise/operational speed, 40 kmh?

https://www.zigwheels.com/news-features/news/ordnance-factory-board-showcases-yuktirath/12320/1

Why build an MRAP that all main battle tanks in the world drive much faster than it, just to have 42 kg resistance under wheel? How does it keep up road speed with other vehicles in army operations?

They also didn't reveal how many IED strikes gives 42kg wheels, because MRAPs with 24kg resistance for two strikes normally resist total of 48kg under wheel.

Its about science & tech, once you increase armour weight the speed reduces proportionately, so MRAPs with 14kg belly 24kg wheels TNT have maximum speed 90 kmh, now the 35kg belly 42 kg wheel has dropped maximum vehicle speed to 50 kmh, then that does not qualify as a proper MRAP, its rather a MPV - Mine Protected Vehicle, and that's what they named it.

How does it fit Ambush Protected - AP as in MR - AP, when under ambush attack it tries to escape at less than 50 kmh with it's thin body hull armour resisting only 7.62mm Ball (body armour so much reduced to increase underbelly) and ordinary AK-47 with AP bullet will penetrate it.

Looks Mine Resistant but how is it Ambush Protected to meet normal MRAP function?

Other countries too will love MRAP resistance of even more like 50 kg under wheel but they all know the law of science, you double armour weight you half speed and you lose Ambush Protection of normal MRAPs minimum safe speed capacity.

Option of ceramics armour to save weight, means you increase cost price 3 times so 400k MRAP becomes $1.2 million, then too expensive to repair that vehicle is written off and lost out of inventory after only one IED blast.


++

Bro, JLTV ballistic data on IED blast & bullet kinetic strikes is officially classified for now, any priviledged American who reveals the secret will likely go to jail for compromising US defence - national security

Whyem15:
Read something about "indeginous Remote operated weapon system" indeginous referring to made in Nigeria if I'm not mistaken, any info on this?

Yes video info is right here on this thread, showing the operating console of that said to be "indeginous Remote operated weapon system" made in Nigeria, only visual NA demo video without written data, posted here within past 12 months or so, by maybe @bidexiii or @fynline. It was really nice stand alone RWS console operated by a NA soldier. If you have time, try get it from back pages.

Some people in the hall that day smelled this coming of a local RWS since March 2017 Reseacrh & Innovation Summit Abuja where NA displayed locally made remotely-operated Automated Sniper Rifle called ASR. DefenceWeb published on the ASR Abuja summit.

SerikinGamo:
Omo, this one dey para o cam dan

Omo, this one no send anybody o koolu tempa

SerikinGamo:
I'm not interested in ezugwu vs ara, I just stated what you left out.

Crawling on the belly is just ridiculous, multiple IEDs can be chained up to ensure penetration of the hull.

You are free to add any info bros you say you are not interested in answering the question to compare ARA and Ezugwu data and let the forum gain info from you, but you are only very interested in picking what you imagine to be a fault with anyone who was diligent enough to provide detailed answer to the tough question.

If truly you are not interested, you should not have read the whole comparison, even going further to comment, adding data that was not mentioned. Common man, be a bit more honest with ya sef o

Your idea of multiple IEDs chained up to ensure penetration of hull, is not the type of IED threat Nigerian Army faced in 10 years in N.E., they only faced max of double arty shell 155mm and they designed Ezugwu to defeat that threat.

So, you think hungry insurgents stealing corn & beans to eat is rich enough to make multiple chain artillery shells on one only spot hoping to reach vehicle belly across from the wheels? Do you know how much dollars one arty 155mm shell costs to buy in black market? You see how your idea is like Nollywood story?

You also forgot that your imaginary multiple IED chained up to penetrate the belly would have first penetrated the contact wheel of weaker ARA 10kg wheel even before it penetrated the wheel of 12kg on Ezugwu !

Crawling vehicle on belly is not ridiculous, no vehicle travels on belly is a fact, road contact is the wheel, you just prefer to imagine the belly will touch IED first.

Your own big ignorance of reality of war is that multiple chain of say 4 arty shells IED is already like 24 kg to ensure it reaches the thinner 7kg belly past the wheels of Ezugwu, then no MRAP in the world can survive such multiple chain IED because one of the best MRAPs on planet is Casspir with maximum belly resistance 14 kg so it can only resist 2 shells like Ezugwu, 3 shells is 18 kg.

How many MRAPs have you ever seen resisting 18kg TNT under belly not to even talk of your ridiculous idea of multiple chain of shells 24 kg TNT ?

SuperSixSeven:
Can you prove that? Has that been tested and certified?



NV could be installed on customers request on any vehicle. Not an advantage.


Has already been debunked as inacuarate.

You will get no discussion-reply from me because your motive is NOT sincere, you should be ashamed to promote falllacy

FieldMarshall06:
Please have you got any current info about the Igrigi. It could serve as a light APC for troops in low threat environment.

Igirigi is discontinued unless magic happens to restore it, for now no longer in production schedule or listed in factory order book.

The new Light APC is NAC-V of which 600 examples is planned for order by NA.

Its hull resists 7.62mm ammo and IED of 6kg TNT, will add night vision camera and likely RWS as development goes on, it's slower in progress because Ezugwu is flagship due to massive threat from IED in N.E.

SerikinGamo:
Ezugwu can only resist up to 7kg TNT underbelly and 12kg under the wheels. Ara offers stanag level 4a and 4b (that's 10kg underbelly

(1) Nigerian Army field report from battle experience in North East against IED showed all their own IED contact is by wheels not belly, vehicles drive on road with wheels (not crawl road on belly) so thats what hits the mine in reality so the most important level of TNT kg resistance is wheels, 12 kg vehicle was found safer than 10 kg.

(2) Army experience in Borno Axis also showed many double shell IED made of Arty 155mm Ord was common, so any MRAP based on single howitzer shell was destroyed with occupants fatality, NA learnt practical lessons that the safe MRAP is 12kg blast on wheel contact resistance.

Technical data shows Ezugwu will save soldiers lives far more than ARA II, whether people here like this fact or not. Here is a NA MRAP in N.E. and a double shell IED

FieldMarshall06:
I actually asked the question about Ara and Ezugwu and I honestly appreciate your response. I have gotten the answer I need, thanks bro.

Oh I see! 'twas you who asked that very interesting question. We were all carried away by the two national achievements till we all forgot to do unbiased technical comparison of both.

Thanks Bro !

youghs:
Abeg na just the specifications, I'm just trying to learn
And please do you know about the 9 ton version Proforce is developing?

Sir, I will drop some, please abeg don't ask me to post all here.

Added first line protection before blast hits monocoque underbelly – collapsible sandwich structure blast deflector against mech IED.

Miniaturized hull mounted electro IED Jammer – against RCIED to disable at range.

Light weight composite material RCWS 20mm or 30mm options as new primary weapon with coaxial 7.62mm, all stabilized dual-axis.

LRF for ranging mount main weapon cupola.

Anti-blast mine suspended seats.

Theatre long range digital encrypted comms : 300+ km UHF radio.

New hull armour technology : easy applique sandwich & sponge plates resistant to 14.5mm AP ammo.

Toju200:
yep I said With NV but I didn't State the ARA has PTZ which you said I did state with I didn't sooo... how am I lieing

Your saying ARA II has night vision is one lie, your trying to say you didnt say so make two lies.

I never said you claim it has PTZ, your claim is NV - Night Vision which is a lie, and you are not honest enough to admit. Too bad !

ugo4u:
In my opinion honestly speaking Ezugwu Mrap is no match for Proforce MRAPS or other Armoured vehicles from them. For me the NA have like 3 to 5yrs to catch up with Proforce. At the moment not even Innoson can match them, the CEO of Proforce really did his home work before setting up that plant, he drafted some of the best engineer from all over the world and brought them to Nigeria not only that, he and his team met with the end users of these products where they sat down and talked about the cons of what was on ground which they now use as a template to manufacture theirs. That's why the results from the field have being spectacular that can't really be said for Ezugwu's version which I see as more of experimental though not taking anything away from them but they still have alot of work to do and we shouldn't think of mass producing them in the interim.

Let me try if I can make a last comment and return to enjoying this forum quietly.

ARA I failed NA on battlefield with poor mine resistance, thats field report. Proforce had to improve to ARA II, same way DICON starts first with Ezugwu and their next one will be better. Nobody gets on top of the market with first product they make.

See my dear brother, when Boko Haram or ISIL WA start firing DShk HMG, all soldiers inside ARA II MRAP will die while all soldiers in Ezugwu survive 100% safe. After a 12 kg TNT of two arty howitz 155mm shell made IED destroys ARA II, the Ezugwu will survive that blast. DICON did field explosive TNT trials of 12kg with army ordnance then obtained quality assurance test certification for landmine explosive tests both in N.E. and in Birnin Gwari with which Ezugwu passed QAT, confirmed info.

ARA II looks finer- better than Ezugwu in auto-body beauty aspects, and has better American Cummins engine + Allison transmission while Ezugwu uses Chinese WS engine, BUT BUT & BUT when real live combat starts and heavy machine gun fire starts from Jihadi insurgents Gun Trucks in Borno battle theatre, ARA II is dead on arrival with all our soldiers dead inside, while Ezugwu will save our troops and keep our vehicle asset safe.

Some of you here are not thinking of real war, you are up for a vehicle beauty contest of body + engine performance comparison. Nigerian army is busy fighting a real war of life and death.

Toju200:
i never said they Had PTZ cam..
Is PTZ the only 360° cam..
I don't know the spec but I rewatched Tvc Doc on Ara just now and the Journalist said it clearly that it has a 360° camera though not PTZ..
So try to understand
Maybe you got me wrong

Be sincere and stop this your too late damage control, you said ARA has Night Vision - NV, and you were 'correcting' me

Toju200:
Correction...
PF Ara Has 360° camera with NV mode
It has 4 hatches for troops to return fire when necessary that's aside the side ports

Kindly cease lying now, ARA has no night vision that you boldly said it has. You failed to prove it has, I proved it does not, you are too young to copy this habit of telling lies for ego sake that is common here, unless you want to say you dont know the meaning of night vision when you mentioned it and you thought all cameras are also night vision thermal imagers

youghs:
You would find the price in this video;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asA_yBgKL54

Abeg just drop the specifications.

Toju200 said sometime ago that proforce is developing a 9ton version

The video says 42 units at =N= 2 billion, but no dollar price was stated, different people will use different dollar rates as FOREX rate varies widely. The $134 k is your personal conversion at a rate you chose for July 2020 contract of 42 units, but I quoted the NA published $200k for November 12th 2019 contract of 28 units.

Further design changes, buying more units per contract, increasing bulk sourcing of raw materials, all can make cost price reduce year to year. Pricing of the Ezugwu is now clear.

Old ARA I MRAP reportedly did not do well vs IED in N.E. War, causing need for ARA II. NA ordered 30 ARA II but plan 130 Ezugwu. I think night vision and armour resistance to DShk 12.7mm is very important to the NA against insurgents DShk.

++

The ARA III proposal specs, is it worth it splashing that here? One it was rejected by Proforce owner, two the comparison ARA II VS Ezugwu I posted is already dragging into long discuss, and I wish I never posted it, cuz people just act funny here. I am not sure its worth splashing what you know where it is not valued.

I have more fun here by reading other people's comment, maybe I am a like a mosquito feeding on others in this forum

Toju200:
perhaps you should watch some of their Documentary and Listen to how they discribe the Ara

Be honest with clear facts bro, there is NO radio, TV, newspaper or internet report that says ARA II has PTZ Thermal Imaging night vision, I have watched virtually all public documentaries, read virtually all reputable published articles on ARA, I also confirmed from official website of Proforce that has final say on their own ARA II product, NONE says it has PTZ TI NV Camera.

A PTZ camera station is not something that can be hidden in a vehicle, it's a big external component on hull for surveillance, if it's there, the whole world will see it.

When you are corrected from error, instead of learning whats right and move on, you rather stick to your error for sake of ego that profits you nothing. As a young man, you are not helping yourself to develop.

Mugiwaraluffy:
Can you give detailed descriptions with images? Personally I want to learn most of these things you mentioned and where/how to identify them, know the difference between them on MRAP, APC, IVF etc instead of just mere knowing some of the specifications without understanding the meaning and uses.
I'm sure 70% of followers of this thread are quite oblivious to some of these terms.
@komekn please help us with more details next time
Coz sometimes, reading on google can confuse you more than make u understand some of these terms

Well my bros, I am @ecomog1990, not at all @komekn !

It's true most people here don't understand these things, but they also argue a lot more than they want to learn, even when they are clearly wrong on facts.

I can't continue here because it will attract endless arguments, and best way to avoid arguments is to not comment much or to not stay long on the thread, just drop in a few posts and disappear for a very very long time.....while I have fun enjoying reading other people's post n comments.

Toju200:
Correction...
PF Ara Has 360° camera with NV mode
It has 4 hatches for troops to return fire when necessary that's aside the side ports

Wow! You very funny bro You are trying to correct what you don't understand, biko o. You are mistakingly confusing ARA II MRAPs own ORDINARY 4 sides 4 pieces nearby objects view daylight cameras that all modern MRAPs have, with a military grade one single piece for all round directions mast mounted rotating 360° view PTZ Twin Camera Station Microbolometer technology powered on Ezugwu MRAP that can see far away objects over a kilometer range

Do you know the meaning of PTZ ? Check Proforce official website again, ARA II specifications does not include any Thermal Imaging PTZ camera night vision device with Triple Stages DRI.

Look again at the Ezugwu photo I chose, I picked a pic showing its PTZ Night Vision Thermal Imager mast showing clearly, do you see such vital equipment on ARA II ?

On weapon stations, ordinary roof hatch openings and hull hole firing ports for occupants to discharge personal firearms are not primary armament Cupola, I counted HMG Cupolas, Ezugwu has 2 HMG rotary turrets, ARA II has 1, you are again also confusing HMG rotary turrets with AK-47 hatches – hand held ordinary roof top firing hatch openings.

youghs:
Ezugwu MRAP Cost $134k

Please how was the ARA III supposed to be?

Please what is your own source of $134k cost ? Official Army published info said Ezugwu cost $200k. It's made from estimated 80% local materials.

Let me not go into the detailed specs of the proposed ARA III because comment replies will be following comment and I don't want to stay long on the thread.

Briefly, it was a war winner-game changer proposed specs, and Proforce refusal is part of problems with one man business, be didn't want to share power now that he is selling dozens of vehicles, he wants all the profit alone, and his action cost Nigeria the entrance of our first MRAP with full IFV capabilities, he just shunned off the foreign collabo.

That's part of one man business disadvantages, nobody to checkmate him and protect national interest. He keeps selling low tech ARA II to our army while ARA III hi-tech could likely win this war with it's IFV fusion.

BabaOwen:
With state police, they will stop calling for Federal help.

They will owe state police salary for 3 months, and state police will be going on strike while robbers take over. These same states that owed workers 6 to 12 months salary 2015-2016, begging FGN to give states cash bail out to pay our salaries that time.

Hennynitan:
Ok!!! Thanks for the enlightenment, bro
I will just love the procurement to be more of a competitive advantage and performance basis rather than who is closer to the government.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a one man business. Innoson Motors is a one man business and he is doing well plus many other businesses.

Competition is healthy for the environment

Ah, bro, no get me wrong oooo!!!

I no talk say one man business is bad o, I only said Nigeria cannot depend on them ALONE for national security equipment, and I also said all of them government & private one man business SHOULD all enter competition for military contracts.

That is a wise way to develop our local Def-Sec industry. Proforce as a monopoly with no rival is not a wise situation for Nigeria's defense.

Hennynitan:
100 MRAPS!!! That's impressive... Our Nigeria is going for far less.

The COAS is more fixated on his Ezugwu MRAP which is self glorifying in my opinion

Nigerian Army no longer owns Ezugwu MRAP and all the other armoured vehicles it produced under NAVMC army vehicle company.

Army is now fully out of Ezugwu business, it's NA established NAVMC has been officially dissolved and legally ceased to be a corporate entity by end of 2019. A new company Eagle Engineering Nigeria Limited with civilian status was formed to take over from NAVMC that had military status before its legal dissolution.

FGN thru The Presidency took over Ezugwu to ensure it's survival, The Presidency is afraid that if left to Army hands, the Ezugwu will end up dead like the Igirigi APC wasted by the Army around 2016.

Eagle Engineering ceded Ezugwu MRAP, NAC-V, IPV I & II, etc over to DICON ownership also before end of 2019 and all these armoured vehicles became legally a Federal Government of Nigeria owned project and asset to be managed by DICON for the MoD under FGN control.

Since President Buhari campaigned with promise of creating a new medium capacity military industrial complex and it has not started any project for it, after Buhari's inauguration of the Ezugwu, he decided to adopt it as FGN project off taker for his military industrial complex, he is funding it via budget and grants via DICON.

This take over action of FGN will guarantee long term survival of Ezugwu MRAP and further advanced variant development as a DICON product for local market now, and export market future.

Answer to those asking the better MRAP, notice Ezugwu is bigger in size profile, an obvious advantage over ARA II. Comparison =

Ezugwu resists 12.7mm ammo (Ball at least, if not AP) VS ARA II resists 7.62mm AP ammo

Ezugwu is armed double weapon station for 2 HMG VS ARA II armed 1 HMG

Ezugwu has short range night vision 360° PTZ Thermal Imager VS ARA II has no night vision

Ezugwu mine resistance is 12 kg VS ARA II is 10 kg TNT

Ezugwu costs $200 k VS ARA II is over $270 k

This 2020 year Proforce ARA II sales to Chad is due to cancellation of Denel contract to sell 40 Casspir MRAP at $400 k each, Denel delayed delivery, Chad is in a hurry due to Boko Haram and ISWAP landmine-IED threats, Chad changed to faster supplier.

Ezugwu beats ARA II all round. Funding from FGN dollars will also advance Ezugwu even more as new variants are developed, while ARA II will suffer low funding as a one man business dependent on BOI bank loans to operate factory. One man business disease also cost ARA II a big foreign partner as the MD-CEO did not want to share ownership with a foreign partner that proposed hi-tech for ARA III variant that will beat the Ezugwu, Proforce shunned them off.

Nigeria cannot put national security needs in the hands of a private one man business alone, FGN military industrial complex must grow under DICON, AFIT, NN DOCKYARD all in healthy competition with our private local industries like Proforce LTD, Obasa LTD, etc for procurement sale contracts to supply NA, NN, NAF, NPF.

Its a win win win for everybody.



+

kabe1:
We make armoured vehicles in Nigeria, why should we import second hand humvees?

A humvee will only protect against small arms fire, it would get decimated by large caliber weapons.

What Nigeria really needs are heavy infantry weapons and Tanks. Supported by UAVs and self towed artilleries.

We badly, very badly need weapons in the 30mm range.

We need Tanks, T-72 or T-90 Tanks. Frontal core of our attack, supported by 30mm or 57mm cannons.

We need ATGMs mounted on pick-up trucks, then more MRAP APCs.

We have no use for Humvees.

Nig. Army needs fleets of fit for CT-COIN small size night combat capable tanks before ISWAP kill us finish with RPG barrage, 100 fired against one single NA unit ! Also true NA needs 30mm or 25mm gunner IFV fleets to kill insurgents' vehicle forces after tanks absorb frontal attack heavy fires from the enemy. APCs not needed if NA upgrades our MRAP and Up-Armoured Toyota Land Cruiser 4WD all to arm up 14.5mm guns, air-mobile QRF units, and long range-high endurance light patrols to dominate all high risk Nigerian territories N.E to N.W. and for terrains too soft for tanks or IFVs ride.

ATGM is like Nigerian Army is cursed by witchcraft not to buy them for use against BHT and ISWAP anti-aircraft gun trucks killing us daily.

Maj. Gen. Adeniyi's viral video is a big lesson for all Nigerians, he had NAF response CAS helicopter gunship engaging the enemy and yet the helicopter gunship could not eliminate dozens upon dozens of insurgent gun trucks in CQB and constant repeated waves of insurgents' attacks round the clock, that's where IFV fleet on ground is best solution to win on ground by staying 24/7 on ground carrying our soldiers into hot battle under armour protection and with 30mm or 25mm rapido fire cannons in support against these newly capable enemies very mobile on ground.

This war is again starting afresh, NA redeployed dozens of top brass officers to avoid sack of service chiefs demanded by frustrated citizens and angry law makers. True some big elites profiting money from this war are prolonging it, but true also, its because our president is not using his full powers brilliantly, to choose vital or key equipment and lead their procurement , meet with, sign contract, hand give payment cheques to fellow Presidents Putin and Jinping, then demand live videos of deliveries at sea port, air port, Borno frontline, as proof same major new equipment all arrived war zones. He appoints key commanders, fire any for average performance after setting high standard of performance for all frontline commanders.

Seeing President Deby of Chad carry 9mm side arm wear camo enter battle leading his army against ISWAP after 92 Chadian officers and men were KIA in few hours, I think Nigerian Army Chief of Staff should copy that and leave admin ceremonial works to lead his troops into battle, I think Lt. Gen. T.Y. Buratai should take over and lead that very same regiment Maj. Gen. Adeniyi led (before HQ redeployed him) and was hammered by insurgents with over 100 mortar shells, 100 RPG rockets, flanked by 15 x 2 gun trucks with AAA/HMG, and so let him be our army leader practically​ in battle, national duty calls, please show loyalty sir.

For P. M. Buhari now too old for the field, let him handle all major new army weapons procurement directly by himself, stop this buying of ineffective equipment prolonging this war, if he lacks modern procurement ideas, someone here mentioned that guy they call Beegeagle, I Googled his details, let President Buhari hire him as new procurement technical adviser, then I think we can hope to end this war in 24 months.

My 2 Kobo Suggestions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKghxgRCCGg

Am not thinking this is fair, we don't do this to our Presidents in Naija. The man is too old to be expected to perform 100% in all aspects.

According to ex commandant of NA TRADOC Major General Ishola Williams' video interview last month, the old 1960-80s army training of President Buhari is outdated, making him unable to figure out modern warfare technological advancements, unable to understand modern hi-tech equipment, unable to plan a brilliant fighting formula to defeat all forces of insecurity dedevil.

Our Mr. President needs external technical advisers but they are not allowed to reach him, he's surrounded by those who profit from this war elongated. Nigeria is trapped by the mighty Cabal. Direct news on ground from Chibok town and other suffering communities, show our dear Nigeria has entered into a stalemated war, a blood sucking war that these gbanjo low priced equipment can turn the tide in our favour, to give our NA a clear win to end this endless war that is now our new logo, making other countries ban us from entering their fine Oyinbo countries, saying we Naija we no fine.

Fynline:
I just saw this on Twitter, I have read the last flight by a Biafran pilot. I think it is the best book so far I have read on the civil war. I hope I can get to read this too.

"BOOK ON THE BIOGRAPHY AND STRATEGIC LEADERSHIP OF GENERAL TY BURATAI LAUNCH TODAY-

A book on Biography and Strategic Leadership of Lieutenant General Tukur Yusufu Buratai - A TOOLS-KIT FOR TRAINING FUTURE MILITARY LEADERS was launched today."


Worldwide Army Commanders who won their own wars are listed, and one that failed to win is smuggled into the same list as a successful​ hero-commander, even photo placed in the centre like Mohammed Ali The greatest of them all.

Normally Nigeria NEVER rewards MERIT, all you need to be named a hero is just to play the game on the field even if you scored 3 own goals against your own team.

Jimi24:
SuperCamp is not wrong strategy. Let us give Army choppers to patrol between camps and other tools to dominate AOR. Boko Haram was attacking lightly defended positions carrying away weapons, so Army started super camps. Was it the small camp strategy that was working?
You keep 100 lightly armed men 400 km from Maiduguri. To do what exactly?

"Spreading forces" that Boko Haram was over-running?. Boko Haram will start a rolling campaign of attacks on remote camps. NAF would have the same aircraft required to back up the Army in the workshop undergoing PDM at the wrongest possible time when they are needed by the Army.
I like the Chief of Air Staff but he is the worst at inter service cooperation. Very poor CAS service to the Army. Everytime posting videos about destryong BHT gathering points. This is nonsense.

Let us leave the Army with their supercamps. The equipment situation has vastly improved. They say a lot of weapons coming late February, mid year and towards last quarter. Let us see get them their choppers and see how Boko Haram can still move around

Chief, I wish not to reply, but kindly name those new game changer weapons army is getting this month, what are they? Nigerian Army doesn't deploy 100 men FOB, thats patrol or checkpoint detachment. Standard N.E. average FOB is 4 platoons per mechanized company of 200 troops. You are even repeating same point proving it's the fault of NA, why this abnormal behavior of our army deploying 200 soldiers in lightly defended vulnerable positions? Is the only solution retreating, hiding 2,000 troops in few Super Camps?

Which army ever used armed light liaison helicopters to win this type of insurgency in history? You even blame NAF for doing helicopter maintenance PDM instead of flying, shay Army Aviation helicopters will fly like angelic malaika 24/7 without maintenance down times unable to respond to own troops call for air support? After $600 million new investment in LUH army aviation fails to end this war, NA will later change story and tell Nigerians insurgency needs spiritual warfare to win not just helicopters.

Instead of NA deploying 200 lightly poorly armed troops in weak and remote FOBs, why can't our army ask FGN & NASS for low cost modern infantry owned insurgent killer mass slaughter weapons to give Firepower & ISR superiority to our 200 soldiers keeping the cheap weapons in FOB 24/7, using it 24/7 to mass kill insurgents even if 500 BHT men storm outnumbering us?

Why ask government to build expensive duplicate new Army-Air Force when cheap 30k dollars ZPU-1 infantry light anti-aircraft guns surplus in Russian storage, cheap 400k Shershen-L Light infantry weight ATGM thermobaric surplus in Belarus storage can demolish Bokoharam & ISW like tomato in grinder till attrition wipes them out? Enough said, I must stop.

Smart, experienced war veterans and defence strategists worldwide condemned Super Camp long ago calling it Tactical Retreat in CT-COIN war theater that needs spreading forces to saturate and dominate N.E. to kill this guerilla insurgency.

I dislike these legislators but they got it right by listening to various complaints from colleagues who are retired military officers now legislators and other well meaning defence gurus.

Lack of NA Army Aviation helicopters is no excuse, does Bokoharam or ISWA have any combat helicopters to fight NA? NA refuses to listen to voices saying failing to get right type of modern high firepower composite infantry weapons will weaken our army's small units so that BHT ISW was killing soldiers in weak locations, fault of NA.

Get the right high-power low cost infantry equipment​ fit for BHT type of war and win since 10 years, Nigerians don't want war for 40 years to ruin our lives.

If extra cash change remains in pocket after buying fit for purpose guerilla killer high speed amoured vehicles and right gun types for all FOB and units in N.E. then use our surplus to buy helicopters.

If Nigerian Army says it cannot defeat guerillas having no single air asset, without squadrons of NA owned army helicopters, then Nigeria no longer has a regional power army.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nigeria-security-insurgency/islamic-state-fills-the-void-in-nigeria-as-soldiers-retreat-to-super-camps-idUSKBN1W10FU

https://www.cfr.org/blog/humanitarian-dilemma-around-militarys-super-camp-strategy-nigeria

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/world/islamic-state-fills-the-void-in-nigeria-as-soldiers-retreat-to-super-camps-352687/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/13/world/africa/nigeria-boko-haram.html

https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2019/09/16/revealed-how-militarys-super-camp-strategy-aids-boko-haram-to-hold-positions/

Thank you. Bye bye. I won't burn sweat on arguments. Not all wide open eyes see clearly.

Bad performance of a few stubborn selfish ones spoiling record of a few sincere serious serviceable ones, and them all may end decades long career with bad ending record of "they were all sent packing in 2020, sacked for failure to deliver." What a pity, not all are guilty, but see much insult, no single applause from angry frustrated Nigerians.

We warned very early about this Super Camp wrong strategy, but those who dont understand real war just agree follow some people because of their senior star ranks as if uniform or high rank means those people must be correct. I pray that those who make wrong decisions for Nigeria and those who support them sheepishly will not send the the whole of us Naija to early grave one day sha. Those few who said Super Camp is wrong, a military error that will make Nigeria suffer losses, you are few in number, but you are true military geniuses, so I salute you all, thank you for trying to save many lives.

https://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/headlines/374962-updated-reps-demand-resignation-of-military-chiefs.html

https://www.channelstv.com/2020/01/29/breaking-house-of-reps-asks-service-chiefs-to-resign/

https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2020/01/30/service-chiefs-on-the-spot-as-senators-house-call-for-their-resignation/

Salutey, national salute! Long live we Naija !

pacretus:
those screen shots can best describe what they are trying to make you understand. No one hates Ghana, Senegal I think got missile capable "boats" it doesn't make them super power. So don't think shiny military stuffs make one a super power.

Don't be deceived bro, they are not trying to make me understand anything, one is a Buharist angry with my photo of PMB happily looking at ancient NA Vickers MBT in N.E.

The other one didn't know I got Ghana info from Army Recognition & Defence Web, he misfired and to save his face he keeps yapping at me than to say sorry, he feels too big at his level, he never become LGA Councilor yet o.

Few weeks ago here somebody posted Cameroon Pantsir SAM procurement with source saying it's Defence Ministers declaring intention but no contract yet. Same guys trying to lecture me now, they didn't tell the poster to show them contract papers, like they want me to get payment proof as if I owe them duty. I am not a JJC in defence matter, am a retired soldier, I know what makes a super power bro.

Ghana Super Tucano example you posted screenshots, you got it very wrong man! Defence Web said Z-9, Mil, C-295 by confirmed by Ghana, and truly to Ghana's word in 2015 Ghana took delivery 4 Z-9, 1 Mil-35, in 2015 and 1 C-295 in 2016. You actually proved me right and proved them wrong, Ghana is reliable in procurement plans, I am not saying things cant change in contracts.

Only Sup. Tucano remains for Ghana and they never said 2015.

Tucano is not to use judge Ghana, we Nigeria paid for Tucano 2018 for delivery Brazil says 2024. Tucano is hot cake, other countries paid before Ghana, it's a queue, all buyers line up wait for turns. I am no ignoramus in military stuff, those boys you see noising here, have habit to fool around on Nairaland

Iblawi1:
Common Sense is not common. Only dummies do comparison with selected information on one side only.

The entire Ghanaian army doesn't even have Main battle Tank and the plan doesn't even cover that.

Ghanaian airforce with no proper fighter jets ( not propeller engine) the procurement doesn't cover that too.

Let's not even talk of Ghanaian Navy.


Yes, Ghana is importing APCs but you're to dull to realize Nigeria is not just importing in larger numbers but also building APCs locally.

Nigeria is not in any way comparable to Ghanaian military.

Dummies, buying what you don't have is not necessarily mordernsation. The term Mordernsation is used when you are replacing what you have previously (Algeria, Angola, Egypt, etc. Mordernising their Airforce).

Ghana is buying what is cheap and available in modern time to fill gaps and I haven't seen anything Ghanaian army, Navy or airforce is buying that Nigeria doesn't have currently or planning to buy/build too.

That is a big difference and they are not comparable.

Information on Internet is free.

What are you saying like you drunk? We are comparing specifically Army AFV fleets and you say our air force and navy is bigger than Ghana's, only a dummy counts aircrafts and ships in AFV vehicles topic of discuss.

Its Nigeria burning at war with army deployed everywhere in N.E, Middle Belt, N.W, Niger Delta, S.E, with BH ISWA war 100,000 civilians killed, 1,000 military dead, thousands of virgins girls and housewives raped, and millions of us forced to be war refugees shamefully in Naija.

Ghana has AFV numbers fit for its army size, and its army size fit for its country size. Ghana has enough equipment for it's near zero threat level and 50 years continuous peace its enjoying. Our Nigeria is full of terrorists, insurgents, bandits, militants, kidnappers,​ IPOB rebel, killer rapist herdsmen, and yet we have an AFV fleet too small for our size and huge urgent needs in 10 years long war time.

Learn to compare the right​ things on right topic, its basic adult sense. Let me exfil o! You dis people!

Odunayaw:
You're having fun with yourself my man.

Don't you see you're having erections over "statement of intent"? if we were all underdeveloped upstairs like you we'd have been ululating due to the numerous bilateral agreements we've signed with Russia and just about everybody (Jordan, Azerbaijan etc)

So again. What noise are you making

You no dey think? So before Nigeria bought Agusta helicopter, MRAPs, APCs, our MoD dont write letters of intent, they just jump to payment like fools who dont know protocol?

Anyway, this is Ghana doing procurement not Nigeria, and Ghana has record of near genius planning, action, good conclusion of procurement. You want to have the last word like a baby, oya go ahead kid.

Odunayaw:
Everything is fascinating to little ones.
Request For Information & Letter of Intent is your cause for jubilation? Anyway, Whatever makes you happy bro

Now desperate to save yourself from embarrassment you change argument from- its fake news "sensational journalism" after I shock you with Army Recog & Def. Web reports

Bro, nobody here ever said Ghana has reached payment stage for the tanks, stop cooking up disinformation. Man up, admit you misfired, you think Letter of Intent is ordinary letter saying you love the product, no! LOI is global standard terminology in contract of procurement at preliminary stage, e.g. RFI, ITT, LOI, MOU, LPO, etc.

Wetin be my own, I appear in the photos? Ghana's Defence Minister and delegation posing on top of new tank know their Ghana doesn't sign bilateral product transfer of technology for product Ghana doesn't have solid plan to buy and your ignorance won't erase their signatures. I say I exfil no time to argue