₦airaland Forum

If you are complaining about tuition, student debt, your low earnings power, etc, then you are making it about the money.

Like I said, I have no problems with people who want to study "useless" things. So long as they use their own money to do it (i.e., no subsidy), not the taxpayer's.

I call those courses of study useless because they don't increase earnings power.

You'll command no higher a salary studying Latin american studies than you will if you'd just gotten a job out of HS.

So if you are a wealthy person who is not going to college to increase your earnings potential, but doing it purely for fun, then by all means fine to study "useless" things.

I actually have no problem with studying "useless" things (assuming you are the one paying for it yourself, not the state or taxpayer.) Life doesn't always have to be serious all the time. But if we are talking about earnings, salary, career, then presumably we are talking seriously.

BlackLibya:
^^^^

the community college here costs $3K per semester, that's 6K a year, or 12K for just 2 years of school.

That's quite a bit of money, for someone who doesnt know how much they will be making at the end.

Where? Usually it is cheaper than that per term. Which specific CC costs $3k/term?

In any case, like I've said repeatedly, good things in life don't come cheap.

It isn't by force to go to the school that costs a lot.

Almost every state in America has relatively inexpensive state schools.

If you cannot afford that, do your first year or two at community college and transfer.

You cannot blame loans for causing foolish people to go to schools that cost too much.

That is their fault, not the loan's.

It isn't true at all.

Loans have increased access to college, not decreased it.

In fact, in my opinion, due to easy loans, too many people are going to college in the US.

People'll spend 4 years in college studying useless degrees like marketing, Hispanic studies, etc only to end up doing jobs a bright 11 year old kid could do.

Or people taking out huge loans to go to 3rd rate law schools, burying themselves in debt and being essentially unemployable once they finish school.

Terrible use of resources.

But America is a rich and prosperous country, so can afford to waste a bit here and there.

Nigeria is a poor country, so cannot.

Haha

I don't plan on ever responding to that m0ron again

He is only worthy of ridicule and mockery

Court jester of Nairaland

emiye:
@ ekt bear  .
While i share a great chunk of your arguments, i disagree with the statement a simple 4 out of 5.
though i perfectly understand why you call it simple.  

In virtually all govt. Universities in Nigeria, making 4 out of 5 can be compared to making over 3.8 out of 4 in uk, us schools.
That is why i can almost bet that if you can honestly make a 3.0/ 5.0 in Nigeria, you will make easily 3.0/4.0 in uk,us schools.

Hope you get the comparism, The average Nigerian govt University lecturers takes pride in how many students failed his/her course in the last "100" academic sessions

Point taken.

And if tuition is raised for all, then perhaps this threshold for LASU can be reduced from 4.0/5 to 3.5/5. Who knows? A lot more merit scholarship money is available if you do cost-reflective tuition.

If you are a poor man in this life, then you will have to work harder and study harder than everyone else. You cannot be just average or below-average academically and expect to move up a peg.

Books don't discriminate based upon how much money you have. A calculus exam doesn't care how rich your father is. If you study for it and master the material, you will do better than your competitors.

Anyway, if Lagos provides loan facility, then there is no justification for any complaints about cost-reflective tuition charges.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=787031.msg9398893#msg9398893 date=1319328973]Wey the loan now?

It's really unfortunate that you call these kids crooks and thieves. Think about the leadership they see.

The average Human being is rational and can recognize a fair deal. You need to View it from their POV to show some empathy.

Anyway, maybe I should stop now.[/quote]Lagos should provide loan facility for students. It should also introduce the tuition increase more slowly.

But once the loan is provided, everyone will have to stand on their own two feet. No subsidy unless you meet certain academic cutoffs.

I am not against loans being given out to these students.

But NO to any more subsidy for them.

Lagos has offered a fair deal. Study, get a 4.0 out of 5.0 and you pay zero tuition!

That is a motherfucking fair-@ss deal.

Everyone else, either take loan or pay the full rate yourselves.

My brother, from what it looks like, they are just asking for 4.0 out of 5.0.

I.e., B average in your classes.

Even if they asked for 4.0 out of 4.0, and you know that this is the difference between you being able to afford school or not, won't you spend 12+ hours a day in the library (or wherever) studying?

Not to talk of simple 4.0/5.0?

The more I think about these foolish students, the angrier I get.

So Lagos State government should be subsidizing the education of some halfwits who don't even want to work hard in school and do well?

Subsidize these same lazy students who no one will even want to hire once they graduate?

These students are crooks and thieves.

Roads need to be built, primary and secondary school needs to be improved. Yet Lagos should be spending money on lazy and useless students like this?

Fvck that

LASU says to you that if you study hard and face your books, you don't have to pay any tuition. They will even give you additional spending money.

Simple 4.0 out of 5.0 is all they want.


If I had a son who was amongst these protesters and he has less than a 4.0 GPA, I would give that foolish boy the beating of his life.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/08/lasu-sets-pace-rewards-545-brilliant-students-with-scholarships/

LASU sets pace, rewards 545 brilliant students with scholarships
on AUGUST 25, 2011 · in EDUCATION
     
… Have minimum 4.0 CGPA

By Emmanuel Edukugho

Lagos State University (LASU) Ojo, has rewarded 545 students with scholarships for their diligence and hardwork at an award ceremony inside the MBA Auditorium on main campus last Friday, presided over by Acting Vice Chancellor, Professor Ibiyemi Olatunji-Bello. She recalled in an address during the occasion that the university annual award for scholars was introduced by the immediate past Vice Chancellor, Professor Lateef Akanni Hussein who believes in hardwork and merit. The award is given to all students who have attained a minimum of 4.0 in their Cumulative Grade Point Average (CGPA) at the end of every session.

Another quote:

The Acting Vice Chancellor told the excited awardees who thronged the Auditorium that what they are collecting today may be very meager, saying, “but believe me; you are writing your names in gold for history to always remember you, he added: “If the university has decided to give you N25,000.00 and requested you not to pay for tuition fee for each session you win this award, believe, this is still little to what your diligence and hardwork will give you in future.”

Very useless and lazy students! Thunder fire their nyanshes.

Mr. Emmanuel Ogunkoya, a student of Chemical and Polymer Engineering with 4.78 CGPA. Responding on behalf of the awardees, described LASU as being located in the state of acquatic splendour, excellence, academic achievements, with respect for human rights and justice. While thanking his HOD for being the best student, he advised others to put in their best to excel also. He promised to be more diligent in his studies and maintain high academic standard.

Another outstanding scholar, Miss Chinwe Onyeziri with 4.76 CGPA from Microbiology Department, felt honoured and privileged, humbled to be called upon to speak to these beautiful students.

I bet you will not find these two students amongst the protesters.


Carry go, Fashola. Raise the tuition, and then let everyone who cannot get higher than a 4.0 out of 5.0 pay full price.

luvola:
lasu offers scholarship to its student, all u need to do it to have a c.g.p.a of 4.00 and above and yur tuition wil b refunded back to u plus additional 20k wil b given to d student.  d student wil continue to enjoy scholarship so far he or she stil maintain at least 3.5 .this is what brillant stu are enjoy and it has really help hundreth of lasu student

What is the scale for LASU? Is an A a 5 or 4?

If A=5 and all they are asking for is 4.00 out of 5.00, then what is the frikking problem here  Frikking dead easy to get that.

Even if A=4.0, then you can still get a 4.0 if you study your @ss off and are intelligent.

Na wa o

Face your books, study hard and you won't pay money for school, if what he is saying is correct.

Is this so hard?

So there is even already scholarship for students who are willing to work hard and not be lazy.

So these foolish protesting students should probably be studying. Maybe all the time they spend not focusing on school is why they have bad grades and are in the mess they are in.

This is pretty much the same thing as the oil subsidy stuff.

I could even see if it were an intelligently designed subsidy, where the top 10% of students admitted to each program get to pay reduced fees. Merit scholarships, I'm very much in favor of.

But a blanket subsidy for all?

So even the guy who barely gets into LASU is heavily subsidized by Lagos State? The guy who gets a perfect score on JAMB and chooses LASU as his first choice pays the same amount as the guy who gets the minimum required to get in?

You want to ask those illiterate mechanics to be subsidizing a not-so-bright guy who barely got into LASU? Who, truth be told probably shouldn't even be in college anyway, but should instead be learning a trade?

Just a very poor allocation of resources.

Oh well, that is the nature of life on this continent called Africa, I suppose 

Poor public policy, poor decision making with predictably disastrous results.

Anyway, kudos to Ghana for getting it right (at least if this KNUST is any indication.)

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=787031.msg9398567#msg9398567 date=1319323037]In 1960 maybe, but in 2011, it's pretty much average lower middle-class to poor Nigerians. These are the same people who carry the burden of the extremely poor the most, I know you undestand how extended family works here.[/quote]So if you had to guesstimate, what percentile does your typical LASU student fall in? If the 99th percentile represents the top 1% of family incomes in Nigeria, where is your average LASU student?

(Keep in mind that the average wealth in Lagos is far higher than the rest of the country. So if you say an answer like 30th or 40th relative to Nigeria, you are saying something like the 20th percentile of Lagosians. I.e., LASU is made up of the poorest of the poor.)

And does no one see a connection between all the striking that causes people to finish 4 year courses over a decade?

If there were proper loan facilities available, imo there is no reason anyone should complain about paying full price.

After all, is it not better to finish in 4 years even if you must borrow to do so, then use your higher income after graduation to pay down the debt?

Better than paying "less" for tuition over the course of a decade for a 4 year course.

Time itself does have financial value.

Kilode, I am making the following assumptions:

1) Your average LASU student comes from a household with income higher than the Nigerian average (or median, if you like.) Thus, a subsidy on their education is a transfer to above-average income folks.
2) Subsidizing university education doesn't give the best b[b]a[/b]ng for the buck. Not the best way to spend limited resources.

Which of these two assumptions do you disagree with? Note that your counterexample of a few dudes you know who are below-average in income says nothing about (1) being true or false.

I understand your point about corruption (or at least, I think I do.)

But given (1) and (2) above, doesn't it follow that perhaps raising tuition at LASU to reflect what it actually costs is probably not the worst thing in the world?

Granted, I disagree with doing it all in one year rather than spacing it out over a decade. But is the basic idea not sound?

@luvola: FG can do what it likes. If it wants to make its universities free, then so be it.

But the Lagos government cannot do the same thing FG does.

Anyway, FG is getting free oil money. So that it what it is using.

Lagos otoh is getting money largely from taxpayers and IGR.

I don't see why the Lagos taxpayer has to spend heavily subsidizing university education, when there are many equally, if not more relevant things on the todo list as well (primary and secondary education, for one.)

Revolva:
Shame to Nigeria.A country that is supposed to trains its student from primary school to secondary FREE,  then university level should be at a cheaper rate, i am so sory we are a BIGf ailure of this era

I agree with free primary and secondary school, but don't agree with free or heavily subsidized university.

Merit scholarships? Yes. Give scholarship to say the top X% of JAMB takers per year. That way people also have an incentive to do better in secondary school.

But everyone else, I don't see why society should spend scarce resources sending them to university.

adros84:
Very good private secondary schools in Ikorodu, Lagos State charge a minimum of N350000 per session for day students and between 600,000 and 900,000 Naira per session for boarding  students! And this is Ikorodu, not Ikeja, Surulere or Ikoyi. No wonder you get to interview most of these so called graduates and they cannot pass simple O'L tests.  LASU is what it is now bwcuase it is not adequately funded. Let students pay for the true cost of their education and the funds will be available to provide essential facilities for the staff and students.

Lmao.

And they will wonder when foreign companies then fire Nigerians en masse and import Indians or Filipinos.

And they wonder why Convenant University and Bells University is kicking LASU's @ss in programming competitions.

In life, you get what you pay for.

Who wants to hire a graduate from a mushroom university? If you see the # of resumes my relative has to filter through before he can find one good worker, you'll feel bad for the man.

Can anyone blame these companies for having exams for graduates?

Who even wants a medical student who paid $350/year for his education to operate on them? I don't want such a doctor operating on me or anyone I love (a bit of hyperbole, but you get the idea.)

adros84:
Why are these students protesting? Most private secondary schools in Lagos State pay more than these fees.  Besides, anything good costs money and who says university education is a must? Besides, must they attend LASU?

I wonder o

I would be afraid to send my child to a primary school that charged only $350/year. I would be thinking to myself, what type of education can they be providing for him with so little money? Talk less of a university.

If LASU is too expensive, then perhaps attend a hinterland school like Ekiti State University.

I don't see why illiterate mechanics in Lagos should be subsidizing the education of LASU students.

If the fruit is tasty to you, then you should be ready to pay the price for it.

Average student go abroad?

Have you seen how much universities abroad charge for tuition?

So a family that can afford to spend $10k+/year to send their kid abroad is average to you, by Nigerian standards?

They are very wealthy, not average.

Poor relative to WHO?

Average Nigerians? Or poor relative to ajebutters?

Average GDP/capita in Nigeria is $1200. How many LASU students come from households below this in per capita income? I doubt even 10%.


Anyway, why is subsidizing university education more important than subsidizing primary and secondary schools?

Wh[b]y[/b] should illiterate mechanics be subsidizing LASU students?

He assigns a value to c earlier in the line.

"++x" immediately increments the variable x.

If he instead did:

tens_digit[c - 48]++ > 1

Then you'd be checking the old value of tens_digit, not the incremented value.

naijababe:
I agree with you on the bolded but the same government has refused to provide viable alternatives like student loans and to make matters worse the fees are payable once. Is it a crime to be poor?

The banking system needs to be improved, I agree. Perhaps the Lagos State government should intervene, borrow money on the behalf of the students.

Though then the question becomes, how do you ensure that those who borrow will pay back and not run away?

Anyway, I do agree, loan facilities need to be better.

If the true cost of the education is X, and the students pay say 0.2X, then who pays the other 0.8X? Where is the money coming from?

Is the money not coming from illiterate mechanics who will never ever even have the chance to see a university? Most of whom never even finished secondary school?

Is the money not coming from the budget for roads, PRIMARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOLS, healthcare?

To me, I'd rather spend more money subsidizing primary and secondary school than university.

You all act as if those who attend LASU are even average Nigerians. They are above average in income, are they not? LASU is not filled with illiterates from impoverished homes, is it?

naijababe:
Just so you know, this increase in fees will mean feck all to the overall quality and exactly how are public sector workers on minimum wage meant to send their wards to Uni when minimum wage is 18k/month  

Gbenga Daniel did the same in OOU under the pretext of charging true cost, i'll leave the result of that singular action to your imagination.

I disagree with doing 700% all at once. They should make tuition reflect the true cost over a 10 year period, not 1.

Otherwise the shock is too much.

I understand public sector workers not being able to afford it when minimum wage is 18k. But the question then is, shouldn't those who benefit directly from the school bear the burden, rather than tax payers in general?

A situation in which random poor Nigerians who will never have the opportunity to even take JAMB talk less of get admitted to LASU end up subsidizing those who DO seems very unfair to me.

wow

OK.

Let's not even compare with the US.

Let us look at Ghana.

Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology is supposed to be a pretty good school by African standards.

How much do the medical students pay per year?

http://knust.edu.gh/pages/sections.php?mid=21&sid=113&id=166

4000 Cedis. Plus another 600+ or so in miscellaneous fees. So let's just be generous and say 4500.

Looks to be about ~$2833, which is roughly N430k.

So I even wonder how LASU was able to charge only N50k for medical students when this university in Ghana was charging nearly 9X as much.

And then Nigerians will wonder why their universities are regarded as mushroom institutions of ill-repute. They wonder why Nigerian degrees are not valued for very much elsewhere in the world.

You get what you pay for!

If it isn't worth N200k, then you are saying people can find more value for their money elsewhere, abi?

If that is the case, then why is anyone complaining? The students can easily find a better place to spend their N200k, right?

If it were me running LASU, I'd make sure my books are publicly available and then make sure everyone knows how much each course is being subsidized.

That way at least people won't take the thing they are being given for less than it costs cheaply.

So before the increase students were paying under N50k per year to study medicine? In other words, not even $350/year?

There are medical schools in the US where you'll pay $40,000+ per year.

So I am wondering what sort of voodoo or magic they are using to train a medical student for only $350/year.

Wouldn't be surprised if the true cost were $2k+/year.

naijababe:
You need to take a walk around LASU. The new fees are well above par for the quality on offer. Poor man don suffer finish for naija 

If we see the books of the university or they publish the true cost per course, then we will know.

I highly, highly doubt that they are charging more than they spend a year. Even the new price probably represents a subsidy.