₦airaland Forum

afrodoc:
There was a pass he gave Pogba that Pogba (after struggling with 2-3 opponents and losing out) just shook his head like "but i no steal this guy babe nau".

Pogba was also a problem. He turned turned ball back or around or many leg overs while everyone was thinking forward.

The lack of tactics in that particular match was there, but the players had many concentration issues. Many times, games after international break are hard for big teams whose players were very active in the period. The small.teams have their players resting

patrickmuf:
When you watch Manchester City and Liverpool, isn't it obvious that their respective coaches have left their imprints on their play? I am using City and Liverpool because they're the standard going by their performances and achievements in recent seasons.

What is the position of Liverpool?

Good one

Some people must always be bitter in the face of great news. Like the four posters directly before me

patrickmuf:
One thing he and Bruno guarantee is goals and assists...It's difficult to have a go at them unless you're a purist...

I am a purist but I rather a player does justice to the important Stats whilst playing well...

Rashford has defensive contribution on top of this. He tries to bite the defence always. He is not super talented, but super hardworking

Make I see any one for hia or anywhere else wey dey talk negative about Rashford next time

Illimitable:
This is a silly take.

CQ didn’t ask Ronaldo to miss his penalty. That was on Ronaldo. All CQ did was to ensure United navigate the semifinal tie without conceding silly goals that had eliminated Ferguson’s team in the previous seasons of the CL.

Man Utd weren’t more feared than Barcelona in Europe in 2008. Man Utd lost to Milan 3-0 in the previous season. United hadn’t won CL 9 years prior to 2008 while Barcelona won it 2 years prior in 2006. It was a masterclass from CQ considering United had no Vidic in both legs.

Ronaldo wasn’t vastly superior to Messi in 2008, you probably have forgotten Messi was 2nd to Kaka in FIFA player of the year in 2007 while Ronaldo came 3rd. The only reason Messi was a bit underwhelming(he was still the MOTM in both legs) was because he was still recovering from injury and Rijkaard couldn’t even play him for 90 mins in the first leg.



In a nutshell, United went into a lion’s den without Vidic and didn’t concede a goal. They came back to Old Trafford with a clean sheet and finished the job there. In previous seasons, United were eliminated by mediocre teams like Porto, aging Milan, Leverkusen and other shitty teams.



Barca and Chelsea(Avram Grant) were stronger than United. Without the tactical acumen of CQ, United would never have won 2008 CL - even SAF admitted it in his book.



In 2009, United could have won the final even in the absence of Darren Fletcher but SAF had no CQ to hold his hand to navigate the threat posed by Barcelona’s midfield and attack.

SAF left Tevez on the bench and played Giggs & Carrick in the midfield to contain the trio of Busquets, Iniesta and Xavi. One of the most idiotic decisions any manager has taken in the final of CL. It was a mismatch as Barcelona controlled the game from the moment Eto’o scored till the last kick of the game.

A season later, Mourinho(another Portuguese) proved Barcelona can be beaten by letting them have the ball while putting plenty of men at the back. Mourinho proved you can control possession without actually having the ball. Just let your opponents have the ball in the areas they can’t hurt you and they would suicide themselves.

In conclusion, SAF is not a tactician. He’s not reactive. He doesn’t worry about where he can be hurt. He only focused on where he can hurt his opponents. Pep taught him bitter lessons in the finals of 2009 and 2011.

The highlighted got me thinking

popizaino:
Forget it,that guy can never been coogar.

Coogar will not talk about Manchester United in those years without given special recognition to micheal Carrick someone who he once described as an angel . Lastly,coogar belong to a beautiful football school of thought,one that doesn't use trophy to rate a player today and goes on to use eye test tomorrow.He follows a consistent pattern and drifting away like you .

I think you are wrong. More like he is the one. There is already some wit in the writing that reminds one of Coogar. You know his flare that makes you to want to agree with him whether right or wrong. If he is the one, let him just announce and we will be super happy to have him back

raumdeuter:
He is quite knowledgable though and I noticed something familiar about it when we had the Rio vs Vidic argument

If he is, Glad to have him back, We need quality posters back on the board and not just trolls

ok

But the way that moniker repeats the term 'tactical acumen', I doubt if he is the one. Coogar would have used an alternative word/term since. Except may be he is now rusty.

Anyway, I will be watching this Mr Akumen with corner eye

raumdeuter:
elampiro,

Does illimitable remind you of someone? Your old friend

Only one person can make elamps write epistle like this

His insults reminds me of how quick Coogar was to curse. I kind of reason if Coogar was back, but I died the temptation

SAF mistake was his saving money for the Glazers. Just imagine if he did not dilly dally on Ronadinho.

Illimitable:
You are a big olodo.

2008 was the only time he was able to convince Alex Ferguson not to go cavalier against Barcelona. Everything was explicitly stated in Ferguson’s book and Neville confirmed it later that he had not seen such a drill before in his career at Old Trafford with sit-up mats on the pitch and tape rule measurement strictly insisting which positions defenders must take and blah blah blah.

You won’t find this on Wikipedia so I am sorry for your lack of knowledge. Anybody that says Ronaldo was vastly superior to Messi in 2008 shouldn’t even be having a football discussion or pointing fingers that someone else doesn’t know football. People with such opinions should be locked up for 9 months with spiritualists for a deliverance bath.

You make no sense. 2008 vs Barca was not a final match. It was a semi final match. How did SAF cross three semi finals in 2009 without your CQ?

How come CQ doesn't do well on his own?

We were superior to Barca in 2008 and Ronaldo was far superior to Messi. You were calling Kaka and talking about 2007. That was a different year. Kaka vanished after that year, Messi was still discovering himself in 2007 and 2008, akin to the way Ronaldo was discovery himself in 2007. After United went out from Milan, SAF said Kaka has shown Ronaldo where he needs to go. Truly, in 2008, Ronaldo was the most feared player in the world.

A certain coach said Roma boasting to upturn two goals deficit at Old Trafford was an impossible task against the strongest man at the moment (Ronaldo), and the best team (Man United)

Illimitable:
This is a silly take.

CQ didn’t ask Ronaldo to miss his penalty. That was on Ronaldo. All CQ did was to ensure United navigate the semifinal tie without conceding silly goals that had eliminated Ferguson’s team in the previous seasons of the CL.

Man Utd weren’t more feared than Barcelona in Europe in 2008. Man Utd lost to Milan 3-0 in the previous season. United hadn’t won CL 9 years prior to 2008 while Barcelona won it 2 years prior in 2006. It was a masterclass from CQ considering United had no Vidic in both legs.

Ronaldo wasn’t vastly superior to Messi in 2008, you probably have forgotten Messi was 2nd to Kaka in FIFA player of the year in 2007 while Ronaldo came 3rd. The only reason Messi was a bit underwhelming(he was still the MOTM in both legs) was because he was still recovering from injury and Rijkaard couldn’t even play him for 90 mins in the first leg.



In a nutshell, United went into a lion’s den without Vidic and didn’t concede a goal. They came back to Old Trafford with a clean sheet and finished the job there. In previous seasons, United were eliminated by mediocre teams like Porto, aging Milan, Leverkusen and other shitty teams.



Barca and Chelsea(Avram Grant) were stronger than United. Without the tactical acumen of CQ, United would never have won 2008 CL - even SAF admitted it in his book.



In 2009, United could have won the final even in the absence of Darren Fletcher but SAF had no CQ to hold his hand to navigate the threat posed by Barcelona’s midfield and attack.

SAF left Tevez on the bench and played Giggs & Carrick in the midfield to contain the trio of Busquets, Iniesta and Xavi. One of the most idiotic decisions any manager has taken in the final of CL. It was a mismatch as Barcelona controlled the game from the moment Eto’o scored till the last kick of the game.

A season later, Mourinho(another Portuguese) proved Barcelona can be beaten by letting them have the ball while putting plenty of men at the back. Mourinho proved you can control possession without actually having the ball. Just let your opponents have the ball in the areas they can’t hurt you and they would suicide themselves.

In conclusion, SAF is not a tactician. He’s not reactive. He doesn’t worry about where he can be hurt. He only focused on where he can hurt his opponents. Pep taught him bitter lessons in the finals of 2009 and 2011.

Carlos Queiroz was Manchester United assistant coach :
2002
2003
left briefly for Madrid in 2003
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008

He was there when the so-called aged AC Milan and mediocre teams defeated United. Do you assume he was there for only one year?


Summary:

You no know ball

1. Is Darren Fletcher the Difference Maker for United?

Darren Fletcher's dismissal in the semi-final with Arsenal in 2009 cost him a place in the final versus Barcelona that year. Shaun Botterill/Getty Images
Darren Fletcher was certainly valued by Sir Alex Ferguson back in 2009, but there is no denying his stock has gone up since then. The Scottish midfielder has been recognised by his manager as one of his most reliable big-match players.

A big reason why Fletcher's stock has risen so high was the detrimental effect his absence had on Manchester United in the Champions League final that year. He missed the match after having been sent-off with a red card in the semifinal versus Arsenal[b].

United lacked a midfield presence capable of restricting the creative Barcelona fulcrum of Xavi, Andres Iniesta and Lionel Messi. United's central midfield of Michael Carrick, Ryan Giggs and Anderson were out-passed by the Spanish-speaking maestros opposite them and had difficulty doing anything about it.[/b]

One player Darren Fletcher might be utilised in trying to stop is Lionel Messi.

Whether it is Fletcher doing a man-marking job or not, finding a way to lessen the Argentinian sensation's impact will be at the forefront of Sir Alex Ferguson's gameplan.

Despite any opponent's best effort to negate Barca's attacking threat overall, Messi proved once more in the semi-final with Real Madrid his ability to summon something out of nothing. The significance of this contribution cannot be understated in tense and tight affairs like that first-leg game.

United will ponder man-marking him but that means sacrificing a player perhaps better used in dealing with the considerable threats posed elsewhere by Barca.

Messi of course is not perfect. In six previous visits to England he has failed to score; Barcelona won just one of those games against Liverpool in 2007. It might simply amount to him having some rare off-days, or perhaps a closer look by Ferguson and his staff will find some insight on how to neutralise this most dangerous of threats

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/708331-ten-key-questions-heading-into-the-uefa-champions-league-final.amp.html

Illimitable:
You can say anything you want but legend has it that CQ’s tactical acumen against Barcelona got Manchester United to the final.

It was even more heroic considering Vidic was absent in both legs and we prevented the attacking trio of Messi, Henry & Eto’o from scoring in 180 minutes of football.

If CQ was the one who produced the tactics against Barca in 2008, then he did a very bad job.

In 2008, Manchester United team was more feared in Europe than Barcelona. Ronaldo was vastly superior to Messi in 2008. In the first leg in Spain, if Ronaldo scored the early penalty, United would have done to Barca what it did to teams like Roma. After the early penalty missed, Ronaldo and United were low in confidence which led to some poor decision making in the final third. United had the upper hand into half time.Second proved that Barca got the better tactics as United parked the bus throughout 2nd half. This no away goal at Barcelona put the team under pressure ahead of the second leg.

In nutshell, the coaching team couldn't bring United out of the shock of the penalty miss by Ronaldo.

In 2008 United team was the strongest in Europe after growing from the experience of 2007. In 2009, Barca team was the strongest in Europe and Messi had grown into a man. But one major factor was that Darren Flercher was playing the football of his life in 2009, he was in a beast mode, but we didn't have him for the final match. His absence suddenly left a big hole in the team that no one else could fill. It was like if Leicester missed Kante in their quest to win the league that year. Fletcher covered so much ground, very useful in attacking play as well and posed a threat to opponents from set pieces

Illimitable:
How many teams with the status of United has he managed?

CQ’s tactical acumen of marking out talented players for United past Barcelona in 2007/8 semifinals & then took United to CL victory and you are speaking Swahili.

Without CQ, SAF would have naively go pound with pound with Barcelona and lose 5-0 in aggregate after 2 legs.

He managed good clubs in small leagues. He manged Madrid and won community shield like Nwoye. He coached South Africa, Iran, Colombia, Portugal (twice)

Illimitable:
He would have won it all if his teams have as much talents as the United team that failed time and time again in Europe under Sir Alex.

This was how Gary Neville recalled Carlos Queiroz’s input in the 2 legs against Barcelona.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13361503_623ba76f17d348a1b1c4bc891929d0b7_jpeg_jpeg3b19b598a428842fd1a7393bfeb1559d

I guess you are joking. How many trophies does he have in his over 30 years as a manager? Was he there when SAF won the UCL 1999?

Illimitable:
And what have our players won today by playing their own game?

This same naivety was why Alex Ferguson suffered plenty of times on European nights until Carlos Queiroz put him straight that in some certain games, tactical acumen is required instead of going philosophical.

Soon as Queiroz left United, SAF reverted back to his old character and lost 2 UCL finals within 3 years. Ole has turned United into Spurs. Play attractive football, win nothing but pat each other at the back that next season will be better.

Carlos Tevez ko Carlos Queiroz ni

How many trophies does he have?

Illimitable:
So De Gea was the reason the team lost concentration? United lost the league via goals difference in 11/12. It’a so ridiculous to blame it on De Gea when it wasn’t De Gea that was responsible for the 4-4 draw at Everton or the 0-1 loss at relegation bound Wigan.

If we had VDS yen yen yen, how come United didn’t win it in 2009/10 when VDS was the goalkeeper? United had an unassailable league until VDS acted like a bïtch against Chelsea and cost United 3 points.

I meant if we had VDS on his peak. VDS making a mistake in one match can not be compared to a goalkeeper who was nervous for 5 months and had to be benched in January 2012.

When you mentioned losing the league on goals difference, it makes me think more that if DDG was more consistent, we could have won it and City had no chance to chase in the run in.

Illimitable:
That’s not true.

United were 6 points above after City lost to Arsenal in GW32. De Gea wasn’t the reason United lost to Wigan, Man City & then drew to Everton at Old Trafford.

League is a marathon, you lose concentration as a team in some games of briefly in the race. City lost concentration and we managed to overtake them. It didn't mean we had to win 12 matches out of 12.

If we have VDS, we would have been champions since April.

Expert17:
I think Yakubu Aiyegbeni bullied him in the air twice in this game

Every time we conceded a corner kick, we had three of our players trying to protect De gea instead of defending and starting a counter attack. In some occassions, shot slipped under him.

David de Gea: From ‘horrendous’ to hero in six years at Man Utd

30th June 2017

Excerpts
Eric Steele, United’s goalkeeper coach who played a huge role in identifying the young Atletico Madrid stopper as Van der Sar’s replacement, admitted later: “His first six months were horrendous.”

James Ducker in The Times described De Gea as like “a kid who won a competition to play in goal for Manchester United,” while Patrick Barclay commented on the same paper’s podcast: “The goalie is like a jelly. He isn’t physically capable. He’s Heurelho Gomes without the shot-stopping.

Mick Dennis was equally as damning in the Daily Express: “He’s called David de Gea Quintana. But don’t bother learning all those names. There will be another chap along soon. There has to be.”

The likelihood of that possibility increased when De Gea’s mistakes started to become costly around Christmas.

An error that would embarrass a schoolboy sent United tumbling out of the Champions League in Basel, while a horror show against Blackburn in a New Year’s Eve 3-2 defeat at home to Steve Kean’s Blackburn saw United waste the opportunity to make up ground on Premier League leaders City. That was too much for Ferguson.

“One issue with him was that he was just 71 kilos. We worked with him on and off the field to make him more powerful. We changed his lifestyle. He would finish training and want to go home. When I told him to come back in the afternoon he’d ask: ‘Why?’



“There were lifestyle issues. He’d sleep two or three times a day. He’d have his main meal late at night. He’d eat too many tacos.
“We pushed protein drinks on him straight after training. We physically made him drink. We had him in the gym a lot. He hated it. They don’t do the gym in Spain as much. We needed to build his core strength.

“I told him he needed to train better, that he was on show every day. There were times in his first season when he trained poorly. I told him that players made decisions for managers, not the other way around. That he should be first, not last out for training.”

https://www.planetfootball.com/in-depth/six-years-david-de-gea-man-utd-horrendous-hero/

Man United 2 Blackburn 3

See DDG came out for the ball late in the game in what should be a normal catch. So our defenders relaxed. But DDG missed it completely



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPPSHQA12O8

Manchester United: David de Gea's 5 Biggest Mistakes

DECEMBER 31, 2011
Steve Kean's Blackburn Rovers defeated Manchester United 3-2.

Kean's new best friend is David de Gea, who in the 83rd minute missed a routine grab which led to an opportunistic goal from Grant Hanley.

Illimitable:
How did DDG cost us the league in 11/12? Why do you people like changing the narrative to suit an agenda?

United lost the league in 11/12 for many many factors unrelated to DDG.

- Fergie deciding to punish Rooney for breaking a curfew on New Year’s day. We faced Blackburn that day and they beat us 3-2 at Old Trafford(3 points dropped)

- Conceding 2 late goals against Everton after leading 4-2 at Old Trafford. The score was 4-2 until the 82nd minute and the defence capitulated because everyone suddenly forgot to run the time down(2 points dropped)

- Having a stinker against the relegated bound Wigan. United needed to win this game to put a distance between themselves and Man City. Fergie decided to rest Scholes(the only midfielder with common sense) and Rooney and co. fluffed their lines.

If United had taken any of the chances listed above, the league would have been theirs. The Blackburn one was the most painful. Fergie could have fined Rooney instead of preventing him from playing against Blackburn.

The incidence above happened in the run in, which is not unusual. DDG had made many mistakes from the beginning of the season up to around new year which put United under pressure

Oasis007:


When Afrodoc dey praise Lingogoal, we no know sey wetin Elder dey sit on Seat, we no fit see am even we climb Tree.

Meanwhile, Moyes should not be unfortunate. He should persuade the Board to doll out €40m for Lingard. He singlehandedly winning them UCL spot.

I once supported Afridoc in this, but there was so much backlash from many members here.

My observation is that people are too fixed on the moment. If a player is performing in let's say for 6 months, he will be hailed to high heavens and the alternative condemned as not fit to lace his boots for Kano Pillars. If the performing player has a poor period of 5 weeks, he would be said to be finished, and the alternative player who comes in to score one goal is the real deal.

The only exception has been Pogba. He manages to have loyal fans because of his celebrity tag to his personality

Bombblacks:
Why is no one selling to us how good David Moyes is or its only restricted to ex players or those on loan performing?

Nwoye is a surprise. He is doing to West Ham what he did at Everton. He once finished 4th with Everton.

For Everton and West Ham, he took over the clubs from relegation positions. Everton was always battling relagation until Moyes took over.

On thing however, I think he needs players who can play his kind of football. Lots of running and physicality. Players playing in zones rather than compact build up play.

Lana1:
The reasonable ones among us wont let lunatics convince us that Lingard is some kind of baller.

Below is Lingard's appearances under Mourinho before he was sacked.

But sure, Ole is the clueless one who didn't know how to use him. Man's even had 2 goals and an assist in Ole's first game before he started to blank.

I think injury slowed him. Otherwise he was a manager's and fans' favourite to start ahead of Martial.

afrodoc:
[/b]

It is not all about the English press. It is a fact that DDG does not command his box, does not communicate well with his defenders, and is not confident coming out for aerial balls. These are facts and not just journalists' opinions.

When I joined this forum in 2013, these were the first weakness I pointed out about DDG. It was so glaring then as it contrast against Van Der Sar's abilities. This led to my first argument here as Coogar went all out to say DDG was even better than VDS. With his argument power, and me being new in the forum, I gave up.

The hope was that DDG will improve his weaknesses as he grows old. But whoosa!!! His reflexes were so sharp that they appeared to compensate for his weak areas. I actually felt he put the defence under pressure, and then we had forgotten what VDS used to offer. Romero made aerial balls into our box look like simple as ABC. He took them with ease before the players contested for them. But Romero had no reflexes.

Late 2020, Mourinho said Man United made a mistake to increase DDG wages to £350k per week because it was at a time that all the big clubs had very good goalkeeper. Mourinho said that De Gea was not good at leaving his line, but was the best in the world at reflexes.
Now how come that ardent fans still don't see his weakness but think it is the media.

DDG actually cost us the league in 2011. Cost us to exit the league cup in 2014 under Moyes when he let a ball slip under him in about the last kick of the game. His error rates increased recently even with Spain. But still a great goalkeeper, just that we need to find another keeper who is more suitable in the EPL where balls are flying across the six yard box