₦airaland Forum

coogar: bayern were finalists in 2010, 2012 and 2013. for all the superiority of barca, they did not play back to back final in elite europe. i prefer the way dortmund play to barcelona
and it's no surprise middle ground won over obsessive compulsion football possession.



complete bunkum!
90% of the time, de gea's distribution started the attacks or he simply rolls the ball to the fullbacks(rafael/smalling/evra and jones). how many games did vidic/rio even play when anderson and cleverley patrolled the midfield with the intelligence of einstein?



hahahaha
says the man that said de gea was poor until the young spaniard was declared the best by his fellow professionals. chicharito was also poor as he did not score as many as suarez.

i wonder how many goals/assists you expected from a winger that made only 7 starts out of 38 league games? but you are elampiro, you probably expected him to score 16 goals and cop 27 assists in 7 league starts!



dortmund pattern won bundesliga against a team they has almost 10 times of dortmund's resources. it's ridiculous to even say their methods don't work - how come their players are being nicked by big teams if everyone thinks like you do?

We were finalist in 2008, 2009 and 2011, a feat Bayern just achieved. So why should we play like Dortmund? The Barca team has won it twice and created records that appear insurmountable in football. I beg let what is in Dortmond remain in Dortmond.

Our central defence keep the ball at the back and pass it around unnecessarily. Vidic and Ferdiand are the culprit. Jones and Evans realease the ball faster and even drive into midfield like Lucio.

coogar: who's talking about barca & spain?
do bayern play like barca/spain? check out their possession stats even with their mechanical football. they still keep the ball very well and they hurt their opponents in their own way without the obsession of ball possession known to barca/spain.



ohhh, i forgot - you started watching united only last season.



what kind of analysis is this?
so rio/vidic is the reason united cannot keep the ball for a considerable length of time before giving it cheaply away? what has vidic gotta do with the one touch football
united were playing at the start of 11/12 season before cleverley got injured? you really don't know how to defend yourself in a debate!!!



another fallacy!
the wingers were not poor, they were injured for long spells during the season at the same time. that's just tough luck - it's got nothing to do with the ability of the wingers. only valencia was rank poor and i hope he improves with zaha as a direct competitor on the right flank.



another weak point!
ball joggling is not keeping possession. possession is moving the ball with crisp transition from one end of the field to another with purpose. bayern/dortmund move the ball along with purpose and they do not play tiki-taka. there's a middle ground - the issue is not black or white.

hell, even arsenal/swansea keep the ball better than us. city are infinitely better than us and we have relics like rooney sucking the blood out of the club with his ridiculous wages. it's a travesty - i hope moyes sorts that out next season. players who are not comfortable in possession should be sent packing!

It's you who don't know how to defend yourself in debate.

Compared to Barca and Spain, what has Dortmund and Bayern achieved in the last couple of years? Barca and Spain are the best teams in the world, forget about a one season wonder. Even between Dormund and Bayern, Bayern is the team with more of a United kind of football where Roben and Ribery drive the ball into opponents area.

As for the Vidic issue, yes it contributes. Early part of last season when our boys played with urgency and got the ball quickly to midfield and forward, Vidic and Ferdinand were not involved. Watch our matches and see how much time Vidic and Ferdinand pass the ball at the back and play with the goal keeper. That delays how much time in a match our forward can work with the ball. We don't see that when Evans, Jones, Smalling are played in central defence without the Old guys.

Our wingers were poor. Nani and Valencia were both poor. Both were our weaknesses in most matches they played. Nani only did well against Madrid and two FA cup matches.

Going back to basics, the Dortmund pattern is just a fluke, it won't work 5% of Barca football which has written history. I am not a fan of Barca, infact I dislike them, but no one can say he didn't see or envy how they ruled the world as never seen before.

coogar: we are not asking united to win like dortmund - we we asking our players to treat the ball much better than hoofing it. what dortmund does for 90 mins, we only do it for 2-5 min spell in patches. the ronaldo header in moscow......1-2 ball between brown and scholes, the cross and the header is the way we should be playing all the time instead of hoofing the ball with no purpose!



every club has it's own DNA but there's a common ground - keeping the ball! my coach used to tell me then the ball should be treated like one's jewel, don't just give it away cheaply. of all the top clubs in europe, united are the most careless with possession. that to me is not good enough. all rooney and co want to do is hoof it. the only time we have played like a continental side was when anderson, cleverley, nani and young were in the midfield.

1. Barca and Spain play a completely different style and they are the best. United has its style. Even the Dortmund style was mirrored in Rooney's two goals in San Siro, on the return leg we took a different pattern and still won.

2. When did Aderson, Cleverly, Nani, and Young played that way? Check the complete team list you would discover we had Jones, Smalling, Raphael and Evans in our defence. Then some young guys in attack as well. That was a different approach when you have young energetic guys who can all run and cover so much space unlike when you have Old defenders at the back. Vidic and Ferdinand lack pace and that is why they play deep thereby creating a gulf in our midfield. This allows opponents to dominate, put our forward in inferior positions as in getting less balls to work with. When you consider that our wingers have been poor, you will understand the reason we gave away possession. The solution is not playing like Dortmund, but helping to fortify the midfield and get our back men agile. Tottehan, West Ham, Liverpool, Reading and Aston Villa have that Dortmond approach, not any of the top four teams.

3. So it was your coach who thought you to fall in love with ball jogglers. But only few ball jogglers play football with purpose.

Some many times some guys here have suggested Man United should play like Dortmund. Why should we use Dortmund as a bench mark? Dortmund had element of luck in their last season's UCL success, in the the knockout stages a linesman error saw them past Malaga while Madrid were wasteful in the first half of the semi final return leg. If teams were to be imitated, then those who would probably had copied Bibao team of last year would be lamenting now while those who copied Inter Milan of few years back would be in anguish.

Every club has to look at its environment, overall team squad, oppositions, etc to come up with a pattern and formation. Even Jose Mourinho adopted different pattern and formation in all the teams he managed. What he played in Porto was different from what he played in Chelsea, then Inter and then Madrid. No two situation are the same and no team can totally overhaul its style and squad. No team can afford it so suddenly. A coach looks at his players and come use their strength and weaknesses to come up with a style of play, injuries and other factors also determine things. Marcelo's injury last season altered they way Ronaldo would have played or utilized and further affected the entire team.

Emperoh: i have been asking for the meaning of GREATER for almost 24 hrs.
Ok, now i know the reason why no one knows. . . . . . it was define by Binghinya

This is not important na.

dademola: ts like d thiago rumour is getting stronger by d minute. Hope we get fab too(though it seems unlikely we'd buy d two of em). D combined fee wld be in d region of 40-45m, i think. #not too expensive#

I saw a tweet from a Spanish guy on facebook, everyone was saying his tweets are spot on- almost 100% accurate transfer news guru. He said both United and Thiago are finalising deal.

I beg Nigeria tried. Without Moses, Emenike and Onazi, then Oduamadi got injured in the match yet we held our own against the 3rd best team of last world cup as well as the team representing Copa Americam That's same South American zone Argentina plays.

For a rebuilding team, we are on course.

Manchester United midfielder, Shinji Kagawa, has admitted that he was not entirely satisfied with his performances during his first season with the club, insisting he is determined to become an influential player during his time at Old Trafford.

“I wasn’t satisfied with my overall performance but I played well in the second half of the season and started to get more and more confidence, hopefully, I can keep that going at the Confederations Cup.

“In this business, you need to be like Rooney or Van Persie and prove yourself if you want the ball. I want to be a player like them, which means I need results.” (Source: manchestered.com)

Purist: Dude, Kagawa won the Man of the match award last night. Unlike the others here, I don't contend that you saw the game. My only advice is that you get a proper, colour (and if you can afford one, HD) television for the next game. You're welcome.

If you watched the match you would have seen what Honda did. Even some reporters rated him higher.

Goal.com initially picked an Italy player as the man of the match. But readers were tored between Honda and Kagawa.

Secondly, may be you are the one who just got to know about HD. Don't assume everyone on nairaland is a student.

coogar: why should a player drawing £250k per week be the 6th best player for us? by logic, rooney should be in the top 2 with him and van persie doing tug of war. how do you want us to accept a player earning £70k per week is performing better than rooney?

Not right to use one season to conclude.

Higuain and Arsenal have reached a 22m deal.

@Coogar and co, you guys think I am a computer or a joke? Was Rooney not one of our 6 best this season in wo separate votes by fans and colleagues? You guys already created a cult of belief here it's difficult o breakaway from despite the facts. That's the hate for Rooney. Chikena.

dayokanu: Dortmund has always been a counterattack side with Klopp. You already said you don't know a lot about football outside England so i won't hold you to much knowledge

I watch Laliga too, but not too much because their matches too are boring to me. I watch Seria A. Man U football 100%, EPL 70 % of weekly matches. Laliga 40%, Bundesliga 20 %, Seria 30%. General tourni 100 %. I have interest in lots of sports apart from football. I also played competitive football, I did other sports too partially- basketball, lawn tennis and race. I have football knowledge on the practical and as a spectator.

dayokanu: Apparently you know nothing about football.

A player who excelled at Dortmund the most brutal counter attacking side in Europe is now snail possesion.

All these DSTV fans sha

The most brutal attacking side in Bundesliga when Kagawa was there. Kagawa wasn't there this year they thrived in the UCL.

@starboard, let's assume the penalties are correct. Then he still beats RVP goals this season if the penalties are removed. RVP played the most of our matches this season and scored only 25 league goals. And you guys talk like penalties aren't important.

Secondly, when I talk about speed, pace, force and power, the player doesn't have to be bulit like Bale or Drogba or Hulk or Toure. Some players are slim but have the force- Ronaldo, Messi, Henry, Nilsterooy, Nani, Young, etc. Pele was a power player, Maradona and Messi great speed and force in dribbling, no backward play.

What I saw Kagawa did yesterday was what he did in the preseason, except for the Barca friendly. But in the league I was waiting for a silva type performance. Fo where!

coogar: how many penalties in all competitions?



rooney wasn't instrumental....
he was substituted cos he stunk the whole joint. the only good thing he did was a raking pass from 70 yards to ronaldo. when a striker only excels in midfield roles then it's time to admit he's a flop at what he should be doing.

Time for work jor.

We have different opinion on what role Rooney plays or should play for Manchester United. I think that is our major disagreement about him. Your opinion of a striker is that of being a Rasheed Yekini. I told you Amokachie was also a striker.

I am not going to argue about Kagawa again may be till night. He had a very good game last night, I can always admit that. But to say he is now our Wayne Rooney, not yet. We have to see next season first.

We can go so much so long in the argument but we have already made our points. So have a nice day for now.

coogar: you embarrass yourself when you speak like this in public. japan were faster than brazil throughout. the only time brazil put any pace to their game was when they countered. japan played like dortmund throughout with bursting pace!

you need to admit you didn't see the game!

I didn't miss a minute of the match.

They may have played like Dortmund except they didn't have same power. That is key in modern football.

coogar: in 2011, rooney scored about 10 penalties - why won't his goals increase when he can always count on scoring a free shot from 12 yards. so scoring in the UCL final is now a yardstick? in that case, beletti is better than henry!



moyes would deploy a tactical plan that suits kagawa. he just needs to ship out rooney/giggs. those 2 players weaken our midfield. i hope jones also returns to the defence department. we need to sign proper midfielders and stop putting makeshifts in important positions!



where was rooney against chelsea in 07/08? barca in 08/09? barca in 10/11? fergie would later reveal rooney cost us the game as he did not play to instruction throughout.

Are penalties not goals? Ronaldo, Messi, RVP, Lampard have lots of penalties in their statistics. Rooney had 6 EPL penalties in 2011/12. So I don't get.

Rooney was instrumental in our UCL win of 2008. The problem is you guys look at only the man who put the ball in the net. Tevez squandered Rooney's 'see through' pass for just a tap in. Against Barca Rooney was the only man who made sense from our midfield to attack.

Pataki: Kagawa will be pure gold under a coach who understands fast paced possesional football. Unfortunately Moyes is not that kind of coach.

OMG! Excused in advance? Moyes style of play at Everton is high tempo football.

Pataki: Dude, blimey! Possesional snail play?!!! Did you watch the game yesterday? The first fifteen minutes, who instigated the fast pace game of Japan?

Japan didn't have any fast paced game. It was a tikatika we had yesterday. If you want fast paced game watch Brazil.

coogar: who excelled against madrid? rooney? lolololol. no wonder he was considered not good enough to start in the 2nd leg. abegi, rooney is finished - fergie even commented on that in one of his post-match interviews last season.

kagawa scored 6 goals + 4 assists in 20 league appearances, only 10 of those appearances had him playing behind a centre-forward! that's a magnificent stats unless you have a hidden agenda!

Rooney has excelled against all EUropean greats in UCL. Tell me what Kagawa has ever done in champions league big clash in knock out stages? The indomie comfort zone is against slow oppositions.

coogar: who gets the accolades when the players do well? who should get criticised when the players are underutilized?



so kagawa is meant to beat brazil singlehandedly on his own? shaking my head!



he's more talented than rooney.
rooney stopped being a football player in march 2010. the overrated piece of fatty acids should pack his bags and exit old trafford! fergie knew what he was doing naming moyes as his successor. moyes and rooney have a bit of history.

Since 2011 his goals for England has increased. 2011/12 he scored 27 league goals and 34 in all. 2011 he scored EPL best goal ever. 2011, hge scored a UCL final goal. 2013 the whole of Manchester want him for £250k.

coogar: kagawa is a striker?
when has kagawa ever played as a striker? you don't watch football, you listen to radio commentary. kagawa that fergie left on the left wing and jurgen klopp was crying for the way fergie mismanaged him.

klopp said: “Shinji Kagawa is one of the best players in the world and he now plays 20 minutes at Manchester United, on the left wing. My heart breaks. Really, I have tears in my eyes. Central midfield is Shinji’s best role.”

“He’s an offensive midfielder with one of the best noses for goal I ever saw. But for most Japanese people it means more to play for Man United than Dortmund.”

“We cried for 20 minutes in each others’ arms when he left. One year before that Nuri Sahin went because Real Madrid is the biggest club in the world. If players are patient enough, we can develop the team into one of the biggest in the world.”

Bundesliga and EPL are two different leagues. He also had his chance against Madrid and he failed just as he has done in all big club games outside Bundesliga fixtures.

coogar: fergie literally killed his talent last season, playing a zombie like rooney in his position even when it was clear rooney is no longer interested in football. all he does these days is shäg neighbourhood grannies. kagawa played as an attacking midfielder only 10 times in 20 league appearances for man utd!

Kagawa has no talent. His talent is only good for losers and possesional snail like play.

Pataki: Kagawa was a nuisance to the Italians yesterday. His first half performance was simply breathtaking! All I could ask myself was, is this the same Kagawa, Fergie under-utilized in ManU?

Hope Moyes makes the same mistake as Fergie this new season!

Every poor outing by our players goes back to Fergie.

So what happened to him against Brazil? A fast paced power match?

Pataki: Kagawa was a nuisance to the Italians yesterday. His first half performance was simply breathtaking! All I could ask myself was, is this the same Kagawa, Fergie under-utilized in ManU?

Hope Moyes makes the same mistake as Fergie this new season!

Every poor outing by our players goes back to Fergie.

So what happened to him against Brazil? A fast paced power match?

coogar: 6 goals, 4 assists in 17 starts? flop?
you must have loads of problem in simple arithmetic. rooney was worse than kagawa last season and contrary to your claims, it was kagawa that won the MOTM last night, not honda. did you even watch the game?

kagawa operated as a free role winger(interiore) - just like ronaldo does. his starting position was on the left but he could drift anywhere as the game dictates. he destroyed his marker from start to finish! he had more touches than any other player on the pitch.

6 goals in 17 start? That is the poorest we have seen at United for any striker. Did he even score a UCL goal? Rooney had harick on his debut as a tenager. We know them when young not old age of 24.

Even Nigeria vs Morocco in 2005 U-20 had better fair than Barca.

Look at the praise of losers Japanese team which played kindergarten football against Brazil. Did we see Kagawa against power playing Brazil? Look at a 21 year old Neyman. People are hoping for a 24 years old to mature when his mates were already great men in EPL at 16. Italians made it easy for Japan just as United did against Athletic Madrid. Period.

Imagine the comment about SAF, the best coach ever. The best in EPL till he left.

coded guy: Why don't you give credit to Kagawa for upping his game against the italians and even discrediting your views about his game, instead you are giving excuses like the the italians practically allowed him(kagawa) to shine. If he had had a stinker of a game you will be the first to point out how he would be a flop assuming the role of your beloved Rooney in UNITED.

To justify your love for Rooney you amplify his efforts in the NT as a player of immense quality, but when Kagawa does same for his NT its that the opposition gave him leeway.

Rooney should realise that there is competition for positions and only his improve performance will guaranty him a starting place regardless of his weekly wage.

I am not disputing any fact that Kagawa had a very good game. I have never removed element of benefit of doubt. I am only analyzing the current which is ''I will still watch him further''.

I was happy for him last night as a United fan. But we are judging an all round play of our players, so I won't join you guys in your bolt yet as he being the 'Messiah'. That's my point.

He made deft touches last night and was a nightmare to the Italians. Despite the slow game, it was still an Italian senior side. That's in my stomach already and for future reference.

NB: I have already noted on this thread that he has good foot work and good at possessional play.

RuuDie: The "free role" is the position Rooney's been given lately and has been doing remarkably piss poorly at!

Kagawa played same role as Rooney for United in many matches and he flopped. He was also the one given the Rooney's role in Madrid.

RuuDie: What does it matter... He was the "free" midfielder in the "hole" behind the striker and could go just about anywhere, not the out-n-out left winger.
He dinked in peach of a cross early in the game from the left, pulled a save out of Buffon with a shot from the central midfield and scored from a "right-centralish" position.

As I noted earlier, he mostly went out left to act as an "overload" and skew the shape of the italian defence somewhat!

Like 90% Kagawa was on the left. He only went to the middle as Velencia or Young would do at times.

A certain Honda was the most magnificent man for Japan last night. He played the central role and also roamed the whole forward line.

Wayne Rooney has been told not to
quit Manchester United by his big
mate Jamie Carragher.
Carragher says Rooney would be
making a big mistake if he left the
champions and wasted the chance to
work under the former Everton chief
again.
''I don't think Wayne Rooney needs to
move on at all. He's playing for one of
the biggest clubs in the world in one
of the best leagues in the world. The
Premier League suits Wayne Rooney
and the way he plays the game.
''Just because someone is a top
player in the Premier League doesn't
mean he will be a top player in
another league.
''It's not just a manager he doesn't
know that is coming in, it's a
manager he has worked with before,
so they both know each other well. I
know they had problems in the past
but I'm sure that has been sorted
out now.
''I don't think David Moyes will want
to come into Manchester United and
lose Wayne Rooney. He will want him
in his team.'' -Jamie Carragher