₦airaland Forum

Remember the Sabbath.

Awesome.

Sabbath. Remember the Sabbath.

KnownUnknown:
I’ll help you out and summarize so you don’t have to suck your teeth.
He said if Abram, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses had personal interactions with Lord God why can’t Wilgrea7?
Why is Lord God now dependent on the Bible when it wasn’t so before?
Also, if Lord God doesn’t want to interact personally with Wilgrea7, he could send manna from heaven or some other miracle.

If Lord God did all the things in the Bible, surely he can do them again.

Iberiberism of the worst kind. Mtcheeeeew!

Wilgrea7:
I answered everything you brought up point by point. If you feel there's something I missed, feel free to specifically point it out, and I'll be happy to address it.



You seem to be the one trying to beat around the bush here. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses didn't have the scriptures. Granted.

And yet, they still had an experience of this "God". Meaning the scriptures were not a necessary element for having a relationship with God back then.

(That's what the word “need" implies. It's weird I have to explain it at this point)

So why is it no longer the case today? Why do i suddenly need a book to have a relationship with a God, when the very people in the book never had such scripture, and yet still had said better "relationships"?



Quoting any scripture is irrelevant in this situation. I don't need a book to tell me what kind of experience I'm expected to have. Abraham didn't rely on a book to tell him what experience he would have. So why should I?

And on that ground, I will say again. If you need a messenger, prophet, servant, book or any third party medium to communicate with this God, or any God at all, then that is NOT direct communication, and that relationship is NOT personal.

If a God cannot talk to me directly in a way that concerns me, independent of any sort of generic book or third party, then that connection is certainly not direct, and certainly not personal.



Why does your God appear to be hiding himself? What was Moses doing when he revealed himself to him via the burning bush? What scripture was he reading? What scripture did Abraham read? Why do i need a book to tell me about this God? Why can't he reveal himself to me independent of a book?

What kind of a personal relationship depends on a collection of stories about other people's relationship?

I noticed this got a bit too long, so I'll break it into 2 parts

Mtcheeeeew!

Another stretch of rigmarole. I don't have the time to read meaninglessness. Many words with complete emptiness.

You see how empty you sound when you are not doing your regular copy and paste. Repeating meaninglessness like a broken record.

Wilgrea7:
How am I supposed to seek this God? Why do I need to read the Bible, and not the Quran or Vedas to find him? Why do I need any book at all to find him? Why is he hidden in the first place?

If he's omnipresent and omnipotent, and indeed wants to know me, then why can't he show himself like he allegedly did in the times of old?



You are right about one thing. I don't care about the biblical scriptures, just the same way I don't care about the Islamic scriptures, or the hindu or Egyptian ones.

It's not because I'm trying to be nonchalant or anything. It's because I don't consider any sort of third parties, as a basis for forming a relationship with anyone.

If I met someone for the first time, I would probably know nothing about them, and they would probably know nothing about me too. And that's fine. As we begin to stay in contact, and hang out, I would begin to know them more, and vice versa. That is how relationships work.

If you read a book about me, or vice versa, that would not be a relationship. That would just be information about me from a book. Information that could very well be wrong. And even if the info is correct, that still doesn't equate to a relationship.

You've been talking about scriptures and prophets and whatnot. The best those provide is information. Not a relationship.

And I will ask you again for the third time.

Without these any knowledge of these books, and these prophets and messengers, would your relationship with this God be the same?
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses didn't have these things. Their knowledge of this God came from personal experience. Why does my case have to be different?

Mtcheeeeew!

I didn't even bother reading all the absolute rubbish that you spewed above. I couldn't get past the first and second paragraphs. Utter humbug. Mtcheeeeew!

Some know what I am talking about.

The gift of YHVH Almighty in the life of any of his saints cannot be stolen or channelled from such saint to another.

If agents of Satan can get you to believe that the gift of YHVH Almighty, your Father in heaven, in you is demonic, they have succeeded, to an extent, in stripping you of it. Just liken it to walking in the rain without the knowledge of the umbrella in your hand.

It can't be stolen. All you need to do is realize who you are and whose servant you are. YHVH Almighty gave you such a gift for a purpose and you must accomplish such purpose.

sonmvayina:
You did not disprove my point..

Address the point in front of you.

Without sorting yourself out first, nothing I say to you will ever make sense to you.

Wilgrea7:
We all know the generalized vague experiences. Things we attribute to a God. Getting a job we applied for. Winning a grant or award. Surviving a dangerous situation. Getting important help when in need.

Generally, when good things happen, we tend to attribute them to a God answering our prayers or something of the sort.

Although I'm not against the mindset, the same thing literally happens across every other religion. It proves no specific God.

Even the experiences we would deem "supernatural".
Let's say i woke up today, and found a glowing floating cloud in the middle of my room, or I survive getting shot or stabbed miraculously, with no injuries.

What God in particular would this prove? Yahweh, Allah, Vishnu, Horus? Which one? Without turning to any dusty old religious book, how would I know which God was involved?



Please define interact... On a personal level.

Thousands of Christians literally flock in churches each Sunday, waiting for a prophet to tell them something about their lives. Prophecy is a big thing in Christianity.

Have you ever watched a crusade or convention? The man of “God" stands there and says “God told me to tell you.." and the crowd goes wild. It's not just in Africa. Even in other Christian countries, we see things like this.

In a truly personal relationship, i wouldn't need third parties to convey the message from this God. And i most certainly wouldn't need books either. I would just talk to the God directly.

And i ask you again, without any knowledge of the bible, how would your relationship with this “God" be?




I didn't ask if they were true or real. Even if they were (which I doubt), it wouldn't change anything.

Relationships are not built on stories about other people.

You slyly ignored everything I wrote there and still repeated all those things. Sorry o! Ndo o!

Wilgrea7:
Exactly. If they didn't need the scriptures to have a relationship with this God, then neither do you, or I.

Bia, wilgrea7, do you think you could put words into my mouth? I didn't say Abraham, Isaac and Jacob didn't need the Scriptures. I said they didn't have the Scriptures like we do today and still they experienced they greatness and awesomeness of YHVH.

Abraham heard the voice of YHVH Almighty and he obeyed him. Abraham heard, listened and obeyed. So did Isaac and Jacob. Isaac and Jacob also had to work with what Abraham, Isaac's Father and Jacob's grandfather, had to teach them about YHVH Almighty, their God. They listened and obeyed.

Today, the Father has spoken us:

Hebrews 1: In the past YHVH spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

So, everything that a seeker of YHVH Almighty needs to know is written in his Word and it capped with:

Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, YHVH will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, YHVH will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

What we, his saints, priests, servants, followers and messengers, pray for is his understanding and the strength to obey, which he pours on us abundantly.

Without the Scriptures of YHVH Almighty, anyone that seeks him would be lost.

Wilgrea7:
And I'll say it again. I see no burning bushes. I don't wrestle with angels at night. I don't hear voices telling me “I am the Lord". I don't experience any of that.

I have already responded to your assertion. If you don't like it, probably because it didn't fit into your plan, you are free to leave it.

Wilgrea7:
I cannot use someone else's story as the basis of my relationship.



Congratulations, but this is pretty irrelevant to what I was talking about.

Mtcheeeeew!

Wilgrea7:
Are you implying it is his will I don't have any independent experiences that could build a relationship with him? In that case, how is it my fault?

I did not imply anything.

Seek him first. Hear, listen and obey and he will show you whatever he wants you to know about yourself and why he sent you into the world. How do you hear, listen, and obey him? This time, study his Scriptures for yourself. Abstain from sin. Abstain from all forms of sexual immorality. Pray to him for the Spirit of understanding. Do not depend on any individual in this regard.

But, then, you people have an ulterior motive for all these threads that you're opening here and there.

Wilgrea7:
I do not care about scripture, because relationships aren't built on letters written about other people's experiences.

You don't care about his Scriptures? You are not ready. Can one build a castle in the air? Is it possible to erect any building without foundation?
Without the Scriptures of YHVH Almighty, you cannot seek him. Every that one needs to know about him is written in his Scriptures.

No one can separate YHVH Almighty from his Word.

Hebrews 1: 3 The Son is the radiance of YHVH's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Wilgrea7:
Thank you.

You are welcome.

sonmvayina:
The suffering servant is Israel....

8 times prior to chapter 53, Isaiah already told you. Like in 41:1-9 and 45:1-10....

No nsogbu.
Go and clear your confusion first. You, sonmvayina, are the most confused mind that I have seen on this forum.

Wilgrea7:
A relationship based on preconceived notions, generalized vague experiences and a few written hearsay stories where this said God interacted with others, thousands of years ago.

You didn't have a relationship with him. Mention some of the "generalized vague experiences"?

The Creator of heaven and earth still interacts with his saints, servants, followers and messengers to this day.

Wilgrea7:
And I'd say that's the case with most, if not all Christians today.

The Christians can speak for themselves.

Wilgrea7:
The relationship i have with my parents, siblings and friends is not based on one where I read a letter they wrote to someone else thousands of years ago and pretend like it applies to me.

I talk to my loved ones. They talk to me as well. Not in a vague way, through hidden messages or outdated texts from thousands of years ago. But through direct, and very personal conversation.

I know their favorite color, the things they like and dislike, not because I've read it in some book. But because I've spent actual time with them, and shared mutual experiences with them to know these things about them.

In the case of a God, the story is quite the opposite.

You didn't seek a relationship with him.

Wilgrea7:
Without any knowledge of the book you call the bible, your "relationship with God" would be a lot different. Probably non-existent even.

The things written in the Scriptures of YHVH Almighty, the one and only true God, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, are true and real. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob didn't have the Scriptures that we have today. Didn't they experience his greatness?

Wilgrea7:
If you need to make reference to a book, written by people thousands of years ago about their alleged experiences with a God, then you do not have a relationship with that God.

My God didn't tell me to seek him in vain. The proofs of his existence abound. Whether you call his Scripture a book or not doesn't change the importance. The Scriptures of YHVH Almighty contain his Word and his Word is life. His Scriptures are powerful. Even Satan and the demons know this.

Wilgrea7:
I'm not Moses, or Joseph, or Abraham. I don't see any talking burning bushes. I don't wrestle with angels. I don't see any seas get split in 2, or suns standing still for 3 days, or frogs dropping from the sky.

No one has to be. Those great servants had their own experiences according to the will of YHVH Almighty, their God and Father, my God and Father. Today, each saint, priest, servant, follower or messenger of YHVH Almighty, of Yahushua the Messiah, will have his own experience according to the will of the Father.

Wilgrea7:
I don't have these experiences. And i have no obligation to base my relationship with any deity on hearsay stories which cannot be verified.

You never sought any relationship with the Owner of the Scripture that you were quoting back then.

Wilgrea7:
And even if these stories were verified.. I'd just be reading about someone else's relationship with said God.

So, the verification won't even be enough sef! No be today the wind expose una wicked agenda. Lol! Mtcheeeeew! You see what I have been saying? You guys aren't looking for proof or evidence. You are looking for whose life and faith you will destroy and, by doing so, add more ranks and boost your ego. Agents of Satan and the demons.

Wilgrea7:
Several things actually. But I'd say engaging with different concepts of what "God" means was a crucial one.

What kind of relationship did you have with the God whose Scriptures you were quoting in the past?

SocialJustice:
Lol, do I sound like an unbeliever to you? You're talking to a conscious awareness, as much as you think you know God, my experience is such that you have never imagined or experienced.

Try getting to where I currently am and it will dismantle your life. I relate with people based on what they know and have experienced. You are an unconscious awareness just playing from memory like 99.9% of other humans.

Try breaking the cycles you are currently involved in, then we can talk on same level. Until you get there, I have nothing to say to you that will make sense.

If ever you want to start breaking the cycles you call life, start speaking 50% less, spend 80% of your waking moments alone and engage in at least 5 minutes of daily spiritual practise where you sit in silence and just observe your thoughts without having an opinion about them. Do this 2 times daily for 45 days or once daily for 90 days. You've heard God is stillness all your life, let me show you what stillness is practically. This exercise is even rudimentary, pass it and I will show you more. When Jesus said I am the way, light and truth, no one comes to the Father except through me, I will show you the practical aspect of that scripture.

If your mind and body survives it, you can come back to talk to me about God. Only then we will have something in common to discuss.

Lee lee! He has changed his tongue.

I have not even started talking, sef and they are not happy. I will talk more. What have I even said? I will talk more about the greatness and the awesomeness of the Mighty One of Jacob, my Mighty One, the one and the only true God, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, YHVH Almighty.

Onye conscious awareness! Lee lee!

SocialJustice:
Try to see life without it being tainted by your bias and stories heard.

Bias and stories heard? Lol! Lol! Lol! You mean see life from your own little perspective and reject what I have experientially confirmed? No, thanks. Mba!

You aren't really any different from the guys who are opening these kinds of threads. They are not looking for anything like evidence or proof. They are simply looking for whose life and faith they will turn upside down and, by so doing, earn more ranks and, probably, boost their ego.

[quote author=SocialJustice post= 118969028]I have shared my view, I don't expect anyone to accept it neither do I see the need to convince anyone to.[/quote]Be free to hold on to it.

I am also free to hold on to mine. I am also free to share what I have seen, felt, tasted and confirmed and certified to be true. I don't chase shadows. My God did not tell me to seek him in vain.

Wilgrea7:
Which God exactly?
Why one? Why not 2, or 10?

You weren't always of these views? What made you do a 360° anticlockwise?

SocialJustice:
Have you ever met God? Had a discussion with the entity, shook hands or whatever but there are countless books written about God and the manifestation of creation around us.

Those who worship demons have them as their gods. Do not tell me that such people do not see and interact with their gods - their demons. It appears you are trying to say that those demon worshippers have not met or did not meet them before worshipping them.

Reading and studying and comprehending the Scriptures of the Creator are also ways of having a discussion with him. Don't you agree?


[quote author=Social justice post= 118968372]Some choose to believe, others do not but it is 2 sides of a coin, believers and unbelievers do not have God in their personal experience. We are all relying on what people said to draw conclusions.[/quote]Two sides of a coin? How? There is a difference between a believer and an unbeliever. The believer and the unbeliever are not the same. They share no similarity within the context of discourse.

Personal experiences do not necessarily have to mean the ones that you highlighted above. I have had many personal experiences with my God, the one and only true God, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, YHVH Almighty. So, no, I don't depend on what others have said and any subsequent conclusion drawn from them. Nope!

I can speak for myself. I can unequivocally assert what I have seen, felt, tasted and confirmed to be real and true.

SocialJustice:
Lol, nobody is stumbling and falling. I'm empathetic to their view because we're all 2 sides of a coin. Despite our different views, none of us have God in our personal experience but we choose to believe why they don't.

Their views naturally are just the result of the educational system which is based on empiricism-Seeing to believe.

Could you throw more light on the emboldened?

brocab:
You have a secret admirer he is one like you-MaxInDHouse: is his name..

Mtcheeeeew!

El Elohe Yahshrael!


Isaiah 53: Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of YHVH been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and YHVH has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,Nso he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was YHVH’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though YHVH makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of YHVH will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.


El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

brocab:
I have you under my finger-you can't help yourself-you need to have the last say, even if it doesn't make sense..

Mtcheeeeew! Leelee!
Senselessness!

El Elohe Yahshrael!


Proverbs 1:How useless to spread a net
    where every bird can see it!
18 These men lie in wait for their own blood;
    they ambush only themselves!
19 Such are the paths of all who go after ill-gotten gain;
    it takes away the life of those who get it.

The religious section is filled with very wicked individuals, both the ones who claim atheists and the one who claim theists. The ones who claim theists are even worse. This is because people worship all sorts of things.

Evil hates exposure. Since here is faceless forum, even your supposed closest pal, your own brother or sister or neighbor out there may be the one who is leading those who are fighting against you here.

Many have lost their way on this forum. Many have been misled by calculated and deliberate antics of people who they may know out there.

So, ask yourself, "Why am I on nairaland"? What is your mission here?

Ezekiel 11: Then the Spirit lifted me up and brought me to the gate of the house of YHVH that faces east. There at the entrance of the gate were twenty-five men, and I saw among them Jaazaniah son of Azzur and Pelatiah son of Benaiah, leaders of the people. 2 YHVH said to me, “Son of man, these are the men who are plotting evil and giving wicked advice in this city. 3 They say, ‘Haven’t our houses been recently rebuilt? This city is a pot, and we are the meat in it.’ 4 Therefore prophesy against them; prophesy, son of man.”

If you are interested, you could say this prayer for yourself:

"May those whose wish it is/was to use a faceless forum, such as this one, to strip me of all that my Father in heaven, YHVH Almighty, has bestowed upon me and endowed me with be struck down and destroyed by the thunder and lightning of YHVH Almighty. May the thunder and lightning of YHVH Almighty, my Father in heaven, strike them down, strike them down till they rise no more."


El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

Isaiah 24: See, YHVH is going to lay waste the earth and devastate it; he will ruin its face
and scatter its inhabitants— 2 it will be the same
for priest as for people,
for the master as for his servant,
for the mistress as for her servant,
for seller as for buyer,
for borrower as for lender,
for debtor as for creditor.
3 The earth will be completely laid waste
and totally plundered.
YHVH has spoken this word.
4 The earth dries up and withers,
the world languishes and withers,
the heavens languish with the earth.
5 The earth is defiled by its people;
they have disobeyed the laws,
violated the statutes
and broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore a curse consumes the earth;
its people must bear their guilt.
Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up,
and very few are left.


Abstain from the abominable act of homosexuality.

Almost all the evil things that happen in this world could be traced to homosexuality. The prevalence of the abominable act of homosexuality in this world will lead to increase in wickedness on earth. This present earth is getting ready for annihilation.

Abstain from the abominable filth called homosexuality.


So, yes, blame homosexuality and its prevalence in this world for the wickedness that abounds.

brocab:
Maybe you don't know anything-I would believe that..

How foolish! Because I refused to bend to your whims, huh? How foolish! Utter foolery!

If you don't have anything reasonable to say, just scram and stop displaying your serpentine agenda here.

YHVH be praised.

AntiChristian:
Was it Jesus or who did Jacob fight?

Jacob fought Elohim in the Bible! Who is Elohim?

Mtcheeeeew!

Janosky:
Daniel 10:13,Matthew 25:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 &2 Thess1:7-9. Every Bible scholar worth his salt,knows this.

Can you make sense of it that he is Yehoshua?
Another Proof: Yehoshua is not Yahweh (YHVH).

I have told you already to quote Scriptures fully for a better discourse. Till you are ready to do so, I will not respond to your questions.

AntiChristian:
Answer the question before you ask your own!

Was it Jesus or who did Jacob fight?

You are not serious. I did not drag you to this thread. You dragged yourself to it.

brocab:
It's no-ones business with the Catholic's, "warning" Pope Francis had made up a "New 10 commandments-on Mount Sinai just recently. Cop 27-which means-all religions, such as your's JW, will be forced to obey the New commandments the Sunday worship, coming soon.

Now I know that you are very very foolish. Mtcheeeeew! You don't have any reasonable to contribute, just shut your mouth and stop exhibiting utter foolishness.

It is very important to separate the Body of the Messiah, which is made up of his saints, servants, followers, and messengers, from what people call church. The two are not the same.

The Body of the Messiah is not for sinners but for the righteous.