₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
Finally, those who are to be saved are in several stages of hardness of heart. Some are already broken and a word like Jesus loves you will win them over to Christ. Some need a great deal of persistence and some need to be bulldozed to yield. Let everyone do his bit in the work of evangelism.

TenQ, didn't you twist the parable of the sower here. Do you believe that it is place of the messenger to convert his hearer? Isn't that the role of the Set-apart Spirit?

TenQ:
Only this
1. The People saved by Christ: the people whose name are in the Lamb's book of life.




Is the TRUE body of the Messiah. Any other thing called "church" is NOT!

So, you agree with me that no worshipper of Satan or the demons is part of the Body of the Messiah, his Ekklesia?

AntiChristian:
It's so amazing how you avoid the question to face the questioner!

Anyways we should just believe by fire by force that your God killed himself to save others by blood ritual sacrifice right?

"By fire by force" would be me compelling you to accept my beliefs, have I done that?

PastorAIO:
My point is that you are talking of yahoo's plan. and he set it out that he will drag the whole world to come and prostrate to Zion and be enslaved. That is the plan that they are working on in Israel today. Enslavement is its plan for you. Are you ready for your chains?

Mtcheeeeew!

TenQ:
1. The People saved by Christ
2. The Building used in Christian worship
3. The people who claim to be of Christ.

Can the "church" also be referred to as the "Body of the Messiah"?

Can number two be found in the Scriptures?

Claiming doesn't equate to actually being part of the Ekklesia, don't you agree?

TenQ:
Acts 6:9:
"Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen."

Acts 19:8:
"And he went into the synagogue, and spoke boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God."

You twist and misinterpret the Scriptures a lot. Wow!

TenQ:
1. First,
Mat 7:21-23:
"Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity ."

2. Secondly, in the Church is both the strangers and the children. But for now, they have to grow together

Mat 13:24-30:
"Another parable put he forth to them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened to a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said to him, Sir, did not you sow good seed in your field? from where then has it tares? He said to them, An enemy has done this. The servants said to him, Will you then that we go and gather them up? But he said, No; lest while you gather up the tares, you root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather you together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

TenQ, what is the " church"?

TenQ:
The Parable of the Soil

Luk 8:4-8:
"And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spoke by a parable: A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. And some fell on a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bore fruit an hundred times. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that has ears to hear, let him hear."

Every heart is at a different state when the WORD of God get to it. Some hearts (like the good soil) is ready.
Some hearts (like the way side) is not ready.
Some hearts (like the rocky soil) recieved the word at an emotional level.


The wayside and rocky hearts may need some POUNDING to break the rocks.

Shalom

How you try to "bulldoze" the Scriptures eeh! Wow!

PastorAIO:
What about this plan?

Isaiah 60

10[b]Foreigners shall build up your walls,[/b]
and their kings shall minister to you;
for in my wrath I struck you,
but in my favor I have had mercy on you.
11Your gates shall be open continually;
day and night they shall not be shut,
that people may bring to you the wealth of the nations,
with their kings led in procession.
12For the nation and kingdom
that will not serve you shall perish;
those nations shall be utterly laid waste.
13The glory of Lebanon shall come to you,
the cypress, the plane, and the pine,
to beautify the place of my sanctuary,
and I will make the place of my feet glorious.
14The sons of those who afflicted you
shall come bending low to you,
and all who despised you
shall bow down at your feet;
they shall call you the City of the LORD,
the Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

What is your point, AIO?

AntiChristian:

I am glad you got the message.

AntiChristian:
Can God kill himself?

Antichristian, I will advise you to focus on your own religion and beliefs and leave my religion and my beliefs to me. Am I complaining to you? We are not in any form of competition.

Awesome.

LegalWolf:
Although directed at a potential thief TenQ (you possibly may frown at this as you have been respectful to me so far) and not me, I think I will use this opportunity to answer your question as well.

We are not in any competition of any sort. If you notice, I have directly stopped engaging him apart from mentioning him and calling him a potential thief (with reasons given previously). What ought to be an interesting and respectful conversation about faith turned into lies, deliberate falsehoods, forgery, hypocrisy and what not. And I think the fact that he rather made it appear that he is after the truth and not to win an argument and my strong personal conviction not to engage a fraudulent liar about faith made the conversation even longer. But anyways, my conviction still stands irrespective of the tantrums he throws.

As you are convinced of your faith, I am tempted to assert that I am a 1000x more convinced on the righteousness of my path. And as neither what I will say will impact your 'righteous work' no matter how logically convincing it is. Or would it? I should suppose that neither would yours impact mine. So, it would be an endless circle of argument (to the extent that no one deliberately forges or tell lies).

In any event, I await your response and see if it meets the benchmark of logic. If it does, I may explain further. But if not, I think it will be adieu at this stage.

cc:
Tempted to call this bro a potential thief, but I should sheathe my sword for a while (unsure it will be permanent.

Should my response anger and hurt you so deeply?

I am not engaging in any further discourse with you.

LegalWolf:
Oh the simple question: let me put in highlight so you can see very clearly. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE THAT THE GOD SPOKEN OF IN THAT PORTION OF THE BIBLE, THE ONE WHO RESTED FROM HIS WORK ON THE SEVENTH DAY AFTER CREATION, IS THE SAME GOD I WORSHIP. NEVER WAS HE, NEVER IS HE AND NEVER WOULD HE BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . Apart from highlight, how can I bold it and make it even more obvious? If you know any way, please let me know!

Let our discourse end on this basis. I will stick with what I have. You are free to do same.

AntiChristian:
But God still had to send himself to die for others to live right?

How else would the life have been possible without his death and resurrection?

TenQ:
He has been using Judges1:19 to argue that Yahweh was powerless to drive out the "God of Iron" - Ogun of the people with chariots of Iron. Every explanation has fallen on his deaf ears

John 6: 43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Yahushua answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

TenQ, you need to listen to the word of Yahushua the Messiah, whose servant you say you are. There is no compulsion in the Glad Tiding. YHVH Almighty is the only one who can draw people to his Word. The role of the saint, priest, servant, follower and messenger of YHVH Almighty is to disseminate the Truth. It is the prerogative of the hearer to either accept or reject what he or she hears. After all, at the end of the age, each person will answer for his or her actions here on earth.

TenQ:
therefore I want to refer him to Islamic history so that he can use the same argument.

Mohammed fought a battle of Uhud and lost the Battle. In the battle, he also lost his set of front teeth.

The Question he should answer is (just like Judah) was Allah with Mohammed during this battle?

If YES : how come he lost the Battle? Is he saying that Allah is powerless?
This had been his argument since morning

If NO : It confirms that Mohammed is a false prophet.

The Question is to make him face his hypocrisy: as he is not interested in any Christian answer, he's only interested in repeating the same question endlessly.

He's been avoiding this question because, it will permanently shut his mouth.

Above is the reason!

That question has no bearing on my righteous walk. His answer will not have any single bearing on my righteous walk. If you don't think so, tell me how and in what way(s) both the question and his answer will impact my righteous walk. If you do, then I may ask him.

It appears you two are in some kind of competition?

TenQ:
Please can you directly ask the baby_lawyer this question he's been avoiding because TenQ beat him so bad he wept for two days straight on Nairaland?


parallel to Judges 1:19

Was Allah with Mohammed when he fought the battle of Uhud and lost not only the battle but his set of front teeth?

I won't be surprised if he starts ranting about the pain TenQ caused him rather than answering the question

Why would I do that?

LegalWolf:
Hi Elated177,

I think the issue here stems from a different approach to religion, faith, understanding of divine being etc. Take for example, what you asked me to consider, i.e., the underlined (which do you prefer - Yhwh, Jehovah or Yhvh. I noticed you spelt it Yhvh?). I do NOT agree to that in any material respect.

See it from this angle. Will you deride a chosen vessel of the Creator who, by the power of the Creator, becomes tired, for a while, of course, after exerting some influence on the sun, when the collective soul strength of 10, 000,000 ordinary humans can't do it?

LegalWolf:
To the best of my knowledge, there is no scriptural reference in my faith to back that up. In fact, what I know (and I stand to be corrected) is that we are all equal (whether anointed or not - of course, subject to God's discretion), no nation is superior to the other (and that includes the children of Israel, Arabs, Fulani, Yoruba, Kalabari etc) amongst others. That is my conception of faith. To the extent that there may be room for divergence of opinion in other other things, but as I understand it, this is what I think complies with reason!

Whatever it was that you were trying to pass across didn't take place. What is the relevance of your assertions above to what I asked?

LegalWolf:
(underlined mine)

Now your questions raise a lot of logical problems that I would want you to consider.

Granted, the creation of man and the entire universe is no mean feat that we have never seen before. So also is the explosion of human population to over 7 billion people (and Christians to over 2 billion people) as we speak today.

Are you also an atheist?

LegalWolf:
You will agree with me that these statistical figures above are factual and have a higher probability of being true.

Are you sure you are not an atheist?

LegalWolf:
Then the issue is: if we hypothetically accept the view that after God created the heaven and earth and before there was man or even rain, he got tired. Hypothetically, what gives us the comfort that the same God would be able to say (for example) answer the prayers of 2 billion people not to talk of 7 billion people? Why did I say this: Just like the preceding premise (of something never done before), we have never in the history of the Universe have we had such explosion in human population and we cannot be so certain that our prayers/supplications would not wear him out.

The God who made the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them will never be inundated with the population of the world. How could you even imagine such a thing? Is the oxygen in the air complaining about the population of the world?

LegalWolf:
Okay let us take our assumption a nudge further: If we accept the view that this same God became tired after working for 6 days and rested on the 7th, hypothetically, we cannot say for certain what other WORK he is doing AT PRESENT and whether he is EXHAUSTED AND RESTING AFTER SUCH WORK OR NOT

Let me just follow your own premise. Let us say, hypothetically, of course, that the Creator gets tired after carrying out a particular work right now, his strength will still be unquantifiably higher than the collective strength of all the 8 billion humans and other supernatural entities. What am I saying? I am saying that whatever work the Creator does will still be too much for all the 8 billion humans and other supernatural entities put together. If this the case, it means that the Creator will never be in a state that he will be inundated with size of the other supernatural entities and whatever may be the population of humans on earth. Did you get my point?

LegalWolf:
Again, I can keep building on this premise of an exhausted God to construct as many bizzare examples and each will be logically sound. And even our understanding of the creator never getting tired or weak would be a ruse, don't you think?

My Scripture has made it explicitly clear to me that the Creator neither sleeps nor slumbers.

Everything you try to build on that hypothetical assertion will always crumble. The weakness of the Creator, if it exists at all, will always be unquantifiably greater than the collective strength of the other supernatural entities and all the humans earth at any time.

LegalWolf:
On the question of 'Do you believe that the God spoken of in that portion of the Scripture is the same one that you worship?' This is an interesting topic that will divert our attention. Not just that, it will distract from the post about genesis or on the thread in particular. However, the core point I will just draw your attention to is that there exists some convincing literature which suggests that Yhwh may have been interchanged for the jewish name of God at some point in Israel's history. (In fact, the name Israel indicates he who perseveres with God not Yhwh). There is even a whole lot of academic commentary on Genesis 32: 8 - 9.

You should have just answered the simple question. It will not divert our attention since it is part of the discourse. In fact, you are just being evasive. Just answer the question.

LegalWolf:
Let me give you a similitude. I was watching Professor Wole Soyinka on Youtube the other day saying that when the missionaries came to Yorubaland, they deliberately (I will say mischievously) converted a God of the Yoruba pantheon (Esu) into Satan. These are not my words byt Prof Soyinka in case you dispute it. In fact, in Yorubaland today, many people call Satan "Esu". But Esu is completely different from Satan. If, hypothetically, X from Bahia (brazil) worships Esu, it does not follow that he worships Satan and vice versa. The fact that the picture that comes to mind when Esu is uttered in Yoruba language is Satan does not mean they are the same thing.

What is the relevance of what you said to my question?

LegalWolf:
Again, I do not intend to go into this in details as it would change the trajectory of our conversation substantially. I think you should have gotten my drift from my explanation by now in relation to your question.

More like your dribbling, you mean? It is a simple question. Would you say that the God described in that portion of the Scripture is the same with the one you worship? There is nothing wrong with this question and it is relevant to the topic of discourse.

LegalWolf:
You can let me know if you need further clarification or what not. Cheers and enjoy your evening as it comes.

What clarification?
You carefully evaded all the questions. Wow!

HisSplendor:
All these are not needed. He didn't in any way agree that God got tired. The position He made was a deductive assumption. A case of 'even if God got tired, is the work done not worth it?' Writing a long epistle on this 'If' is unnecessary.

Hilarious!

LegalWolf:
LOL! This is how you draw non-textual interpretation to a very simple verse. And mind you: all these explanations you are given me over a very simple verse, would you have done the same if the case were reverse? Would you have accepted my explanation ? Anyways what you claimed is not true for various reasons I will give below:

I have few questions to ask you.


Let us say, hypothetically, of course, that the Creator rested because he was tired or exhausted, is it a minor thing to create any of the things he created?

Let us say, hypothetically, of course, that he who created man by his own power was exhausted after that, is it a small thing to create a human being? Has such been replicated by any power, whether human or supernatural entity?

You are a Muslim, right? Do you believe that the God spoken of in that portion of the Scripture is the same one that you worship?

The Creator does not get tired or weak. The weakness of the Creator, if at all it exists, is stronger than the highest strength of all humans and other supernatural powers/forces combined.

Consider this:
What an anointed servant of YHVH Almighty can do spiritually and get tired is enough to cause 10,000,000 ordinary humans put together to faint if they just attempt it.

HisSplendor:
Rather, the Bible says God rested from His work. That is to say He stopped the creation work because He has finished it. He didn't stop before finishing but after finishing, He stopped that work.

Your response is good. The Creator finished his work of creation and rested. He did not stop because he was tired, he only stopped because he had finished. So, he was not exhausted. Since he finished his work of creation in six days, he rested from it on the seventh day, according to Scriptures. For the fact that he didn't continue the work of creation after the rest shows that he didn't stop because he was tired or exhausted.

Let us say, hypothetically, of course, that the Creator rested because he was tired or exhausted, is it a minor thing to create any of the things he created?

Let us say, hypothetically, of course, that he who created man by his own power was exhausted after that, is a small thing to create a human being? Has such been replicated by any power, whether human or supernatural entity?

The Creator does not get tired or weak. The weakness of the Creator, if at all it exists, is stronger than the highest strength of all humans and other supernatural powers/forces combined.

Consider this:
What an anointed servant of YHVH Almighty can do spiritually and get tired is enough to cause 10,000,000 ordinary humans to faint if they just attempt it.

macof:
Yahweh, the god of Israel who in Semitic spirituality is the spirit of mountains and hills(if you doubt, challenge me to this)

Ogun, the spirit of all metallic elements particularly Iron. In yorubaland, Ire-Ekiti, Saki Oyo and Idanre are his patron cities.

Here we would see how the Bible records a battle between these two spirits

Judges 1:19 - And the Lord was with Judah, and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had chariots of Iron

There's two things in this verse
1. Yahweh's strength lays in the mountain
2. Judah with the grace of Yahweh couldn't defeat an army with the grace of iron(Ogun)

Macof, I am glad you are still active on nairaland. This thread of yours has been long here, you may have changed your views.

This is not competition, but to clear your ignorance. YHVH Almighty has no equal and doesn't compete with any.

I am a saint, priest, servant, follower and messenger of YHVH Almighty, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, the one and only true God. YAHVEH El Shaddai created the earth and everything on and in earth, including all the ferrous and non-ferrous metals and non-metals.

To your question, I quote the below:

1 Kings 20: 23 Meanwhile, the officials of the king of Aram advised him, “Their gods are gods of the hills. That is why they were too strong for us. But if we fight them on the plains, surely we will be stronger than they. 24 Do this: Remove all the kings from their commands and replace them with other officers. 25 You must also raise an army like the one you lost—horse for horse and chariot for chariot—so we can fight Israel on the plains. Then surely we will be stronger than they.” He agreed with them and acted accordingly.

1 Kings 20: 28 The man of God came up and told the king of Israel, “This is what YHVH says: ‘Because the Arameans think YHVH is a god of the hills and not a god of the valleys, I will deliver this vast army into your hands, and you will know that I am YHVH.’”

Macof, can you see that the king of Aram and his subjects made the same wrong assumption? YHVH Almighty owns both the mountains/hills and the plains/valleys.

Macof, take note of the following:

Deut 8:9 a land where bread will not be scarce and you will lack nothing; a land where the rocks are iron and you can dig copper out of the hills.

Amos 4: 13He who forms the mountains,
who creates the wind,
and who reveals his thoughts to mankind,
who turns dawn to darkness,
and treads on the heights of the earth—
YHVH God Almighty is his name.

I believe you have gotten the message.

Here is a bonus point.

1 Kings 18:40 Then Elijah commanded them, “Seize the prophets of Baal. Don’t let anyone get away!” They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there.

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

To those who hate him, he repays to their faces.

AsoRockDe1st:
God controls day and night,

"God", as a title, could mean a lot of things.

YHVH Almighty, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, the one and only true God and the Father of the spirits of flesh, controls day and night. He owns the day and the night and rules over them.

Psalm 74: 16 The day is yours, and yours also the night;
you established the sun and moon.
17 It was you who set all the boundaries of the earth;
you made both summer and winter.

Psalm 104:19 He made the moon to mark the seasons,
and the sun knows when to go down.
20 You bring darkness, it becomes night,
and all the beasts of the forest prowl.
21 The lions roar for their prey
and seek their food from God.
22 The sun rises, and they steal away;
they return and lie down in their dens.
23 Then people go out to their work,
to their labor until evening.

Sublime.

El Elohe Yahshrael!

John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

The emboldened part of the Scripture above remains the aim and plan of Satan and his forces wickedness.


El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

El Elohe Yahshrael!

John 10: 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

The bolded part of the Scripture above is the plan of YHVH Almighty. He hasn't changed his mind.

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

judedwriter:
And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
— Luke 6:12

Why did Jesus pray all night?

The supernatural is more prevalent at night than the day.

Many times Jesus prayed through the night for this reason.

You didn't answer my question. Which power controls day and night?

Truly, Yahushua the Messiah went to a mountain at night to pray and prayed all night, according to Scriptures, was it stated anywhere in the Scriptures that he did so because of Satan and his forces of wickedness?

judedwriter:
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
— Isaiah 45:18

I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
— Jeremiah 4:23

Job 9 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁵ Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.

⁶ Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.

⁷ Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.


God didn't create the earth void and dark. He made it to be inhabited.

So likely there was a divine judgment on earth because of an evil being, most likely the devil and his angels.

You didn't answer the question, Jude.

Look at what you said:

judedwriter:
The earth was formless and in total darkness for a very long time because of the fall of lucifer and his angels.

And I asked:

"Where did you get that from?"

From the very first day that YHVH Almighty created the earth, has the earth ever been without humans?

judedwriter:
The earth was formless and in total darkness for a very long time because of the fall of lucifer and his angels.

Where did you get this from?

judedwriter:
Neither the day nor night has power in themselves.

The power that controls the day and night is the spiritual realm.

The spiritual realm is more active at night.

Wow! So the day has no power in itself neither does the night have in itself?

Which power controls the day and the night?

Who told you that the spiritual realm was more active at night? How did you know?
Is it written in any of the Scriptures? Enlighten me.

Apt.