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 Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 9:45pm On Feb 24, 2016*. Modified: 10:55pm On Feb 24, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Of-course, he didnt. Allah(God) has ALWAYS been in existence BEFORE the CREATION of ANYTHING. What Name did Jesus call God in his Aramaic language?. See the attachment. Any objection to that? Rather fulfilled in Jesus:Really irrelevant to me to begin with. Let's see who Isaiah was referring to:But you said Yahweh is God's name according to you?. And your brother accused me of Jehovah's witnesses doctrine. Do you then call God Jehovah?.....that's what they call God. Ofcourse, it wont sound muslims to you even though you appeared to be a little insightful. stoop so low? evading discussion? Like I said, we were each on parallel lines of discussion. I had started the usual step by step reply before I just ended it there. I can still dissect the last one but what's the point?The point is, you have no point so long as you mix God with his creatures, and then keep telling us all 3 in 1 is One God. Atheist wont even agree wit you. Yahweh is the Name of God. It is not the Hebrew translation of the word God. We have many presidents and they all have their personal names!You confused?. But earlier you said Yahweh is not God. Hope you save your many inconsistencies. Well, there is a difference between translation of the word God to other languages, and the Name He revealed.Dont get it twisted. Dont get worked up. Very simple. In your language, what do you call God, The Almighty, Creator of heavens and earth and All that exist therein?. Very simple question Begotten as it refers to GOD is not defined, suffice it to say that the word was used . It was wrong to relate it only to biology and thus dispense it as false.In another word, yourself dont know what "Begotten" means yet you use it, you apply it, you believe it. This is called blind faith. The implications are many. One of them is Jesus did not say that. At some point he was called "Son of God" but he rebuffed them saying "you said I am" meaning, that's their opinion. He never acknowledged it. Another implication is John that wrote the book was written after Jesus ascension. It has pretty much no validity. Therefore Quran warns in many passages I quoted earlier. One of them: "He (God) begot not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like Him" ! Holy Quran So I urge you to refrain from what you knew not. Here read what Quran says about that as well. He says you have no knowledge of it. Thats very much confirms what you said Surah 18: 4 Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, "Allah hath begotten a son": 5 No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying what they say is nothing but falsehood! No problem. After all the quotes from the prophets and Jesus Himself, I should expect you to say this since you either skimmed through my replies or ignored some parts.Very simple. I did some breakdown of those verses and you ignored them unfortunately. If they had been critically important, i would have, perhaps, considered them. But you got them mixed up back and fourth. A layman would get confused too. That's why, 80% of those who adhere to Christianity have no idea what they are doing. They have little to no knowledge of their real doctrines. And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.Now you jumped to Simmon Peter, hum?. is there any correlation with what said ealier (quoted below)?. I wonder if you really listen to yourself sometimes. (no offence, sir). Your Bible is very CONFUSING -> C O N F U S E = confuse Emp: The Messiah- The Anointed One - is none other than the Son of God Who has been from the beginning with the Father!Okay. So here messiah is someone appointed by God. Okay, two separete bings. Anyways, here is official definition of messiah. mes·si·ah məˈsīə/Submit noun 1. the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible. 2. a leader or savior of a particular group or cause. See that?. He was sent to Jewish people not Nigerians https://www.google.com/search?q=Messiah&rlz=1CASMAE_enUS679US679&oq=Messiah&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 A mystery remains a mystery!  Difficult to solve. You put yourself through what God did not approve of. It is not too late. My responses should be formatting your system gradually and remove your clog.That is why I said we are on parallel lines, Jesus has been from the beginning, He merely took on humanity at that point!Fabricated theory, sorry. Interesting claim that! On what authority do you make your claim? Apart from Jesus, who was so described? And can you therefore pray thus: You cant beat that, can you?. Underlined is me. That is the intellect Quran gives us. I have every right to apply it. Let me repost my analysis here again for readers:Emp:Now, Quran also said something simliar that we were created before. Meaning pre-existence (before we became flesh), mimicking you Sura Yasin v 79 Say: (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) "He will give life to them Who created them for the first time! And He is the All-Knower of every creation!" Sura 19:67 "Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?" So these verses indicate we (all humans) pre-existed before we became flesh. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.Let me make something very clear. I do not want you to assume that we are trying to relegate Jesus the son of Mary, the messanger of Allah. May God protect me from that. What I am trying to establish here is the correct status of Jesus(Allah's Blessings and Peace be upon him). Quran describes him as NO more than messanger of God. Period. That doesnt mean he was in the same level like us. No. He is human being 100%. We only reject the idea being called God or son of God. Clear?. At your bolded part, Quran says Allah honor children of Adam(as). Allah has made a declaration in the Quran: "And indeed We have honoured the Children of Adam, and We have carried them on land and sea, and have provided them with At-Taiyibat (lawful good things), and have preferred them above many of those whom We have created with a marked preference. (Al-Isra 17:70) Jesus is also one of the many children of Adam. Anything else? There is the problem, you never saw that in the Bible and then it is a discrepancyBy discrepancy i meant why is it not in my Bibles?. Bible should be one like Quran, hence discrepancy. It is missing. That's my point. Why is it not there? Underlined, you wonder?. That's a question for your priests and pope 2 Likes 2 Shares
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| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 7:22pm On Feb 24, 2016 |
malvisguy212:Simple question i asked you. Is Jesus God?. It is Yes/No answer. If a muslim is asked that question, his/her answer will be No. But when i asked you, you came up with bunch of confused Bible passages "he was a word, the word became flesh, the flesh redeemed itself, the flesh became man, the man is spirit, the spirit walk in man, the spirit goes back to father, the Father is God, He is also Son, and Begotten Son, and Only qualified Begotten Son, and He is God." What the heck do i need all that for?. It is Yes or no answer. 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 5:56pm On Feb 24, 2016*. Modified: 9:48pm On Jul 23, 2016 |
Scholar8200:What is Unique?. What is Exalted? Unique: being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else. Exalted: (of a person or their rank or status) placed at a high or powerful level; held in high regard. The word Allah, according to several Arabic lexicons, means "the Being Who comprises all the attributes of perfection", i.e. the Being Who is perfect in every way (in His knowledge, power etc.), and possesses the best and the noblest qualities imaginable in the highest degree. This meaning is supported by the Holy Quran when it says: "His are the best (or most beautiful) names." (17:110; 20:8; and 7:180) Contrary to popular belief, the word Allah is NOT a contraction of al-ilah (al meaning 'the', and ilah meaning 'god'). Had it been so, then the expression ya Allah ('O Allah!') would have been ungrammatical, because according to the Arabic language when you address someone by the vocative form ya followed by a title, the al ('the') must be dropped from the title. For example, you cannot say ya ar-rabb but must say ya rabb (for 'O Lord'). So if the word Allah was al-ilah ('the God'), we would not be able to say: ya Allah, which we do. Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon (which is based on classical Arabic dictionaries), says under the word Allah, while citing many linguistical authorities: "Allah ... is a proper name applied to the Being Who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising all the attributes of perfection, a proper name denoting the true god ... the al being inseparable from it, not derived..." Allah is thus a proper name, not derived from anything, and the Al is inseparable from it. The word al-ilah (the god) is a different word. The word Allah is unique among the names of God in all the languages of mankind, in that it was never applied to any being other than God. The pre-Islamic Arabs used it to refer to the Supreme Being, and never applied it to any of the other things they worshipped. Other names of God used by mankind, such as "lord", "god", "khuda", etc. have all also been used for beings other than God. They have meanings which refer to some particular attribute of God, but "Allah" is the name which refers to the Being Himself as His personal name. The Holy Quran itself refers to the uniqueness of the name Allah when it says: "Do you know anyone who can be named along with Him?" (19:65) Arabic is the only language, and Islam is the only religion, that has given the personal name of God (as distinct from attributive names such as lord, god, the most high, etc.) There are clear prophecies in previous scriptures (the Bible, the Vedas etc.) about the man who will come and give the name of God, which in previous religions was regarded as a secret. David prophesied: "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" (Psalms 118:26). This is also repeated in the Gospels (Matt. 21:9, etc.), and was fulfilled by the Holy Prophet Muhammad whose first revelation was "Read in the name of thy Lord" (the Quran, 96:1). Zechariah prophesied: "And the Lord shall be king over all the earth, in that day there shall be one Lord, and his name one." (Zech. 14:9) All Muslims, anywhere on the earth, speaking totally different languages, recognise the name "Allah", thus fulfilling this prophecy, "his name one". (All Christians, to take an example, do not recognise a single name of God, and therefore do not fulfil this prophecy.) Isaiah prophesied: "And in that day shall you say, Praise the Lord, call upon His name." (Isaiah 12:4) So Muslims say repeatedly exactly this: al-hamdu li-llah, and call upon His name Allah. Allah Is Exalted One of the 99 Names of Allah is The Exalter AL-MUTA'ÂLÎ i:e The Most Exalted (Q13:9) The absence thereof in the Quran (that claims Bible prophets who never used the name Allah) establishes that Yahweh is not the Allah of the Quran.Now you stooped so low just because you wanted to evade the whole intelligently constructed debate we had. You never had any problems with "Allah" until you reached roadblock. As I already quoted earlier, we can call Allah any names we want as long as it means The Creator without any mix-ups. If Yahweh means God, The Only Creator of heavens and earth without partners, then, that is the same Supreme Being Muslims refer to. Yahweh is not the Hebrew word for God!Oh really?. Let's consult dictionary for clarification. Yah·weh ˈyäˌwā,-ˌwe,-ˌvā/ noun a form of the Hebrew name of God used in the Bible. The name came to be regarded by Jews ( circa 300 BC) as too sacred to be spoken, and the vowel sounds are uncertain. source: https://www.google.com/searchq=Yahweh&rlz=1CASMAE_enUS679US679&oq=Yahweh&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#safe=strict&q=yahweh+define Now, question is, is Yahweh God of the heaven and earth, who created all things - including sending all prophets?. Besides, the red highlighted was NEVER allowed in the OT!This is the red highlighted part ("Invoke Allah or invoke Ar-Rahman (the Most Gracious), by whatever name you invoke Him (it is the same), for to Him belong the Best Names.) ~ Holy Qur'an What language do you speak, please?. In your language, what do you call God, The Only Creator of heaven and earth?. What the highlighted part means is in any language you call God, The Only Unique Creator of All things, it is accepted. Yoruba: Olohun, Eledumare, Eledua Igbo: Chi Hausa: Allah, Bautãwa, Ubangiji Danish: Gud. And the list goes on. Now if any of these names (except Allah of course), locally, dialectically mean gods of thunder, gods of iron etc, then, thats is contaminated. But if it means The Supreme Being,The Only Creator (Allah), then there is nothing wrong addressing Allah by those Names. Even the word 'God' is contaminated. Say for instance we spell back "God".... it will give us Dog. Thats why Jews spell G-d like this. So the word God is not even pure. But if you spell back Allah - it will still give you Halla. See that?. That's pure and Unique. And you said there is no unique and exalted for Allah in the Quran?, Allah is Most Exalted. This ayah sums it: Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. 2:255 You are very wrong there! I had initially started typing a reply before I decided to just round up. Jesus was, is and shall ever be the Only Begotten of the Father. (As agrees the OT and NT)What is definition of Begotten in Christianity?. This is 4th time I am asking this. Was Yahweh born of woman? If I point to prophecies and sayings of OT people and you can say nothing to counter it factually but still hold to your beliefs, then it further proves to me that Yahweh is not Allah, Jesus Christ is not Isa, David is not (whatever he is called in arabic), Isaiah etc; hence there is no point proceeding with the discussion !This is cheap exist. Since debate started, you have been unable to define God Almighty and His Unique Attributes. You rather mixed Him up with holy spirit and Jesus. You have also unable to properly Id'd Jesus the son of Mary, the messanger of Allah {Allah's Blessings and Peace be upon him}. For exampleAllow me to break this down the best way i can. I dont have problem with (Psalm 110 :1) the first speaker Lord with capital letter L. And the same Lord (God) is saying to another "Lord, lord" (because other version(s) uses both upper and lower cases) saying to sit at His (God) right hand, correct?. And you quoted Mat: 22 42-44 that Jesus (perhaps, the second Lord/lord) with upper and lower cases as messiah. What is definition of messiah? At underlined, you have a big problem. The first implication is, you admitted there are two(B/beings) existed, correct?. This negates your tawheed i:e your claim that God is One. This is clear cut Shirk (blasphemy). Clearly God is not One by you explanation. Second implication is, you said the Two(2) were not created. You have another serious problem. Remember you said the latter (Lord/lord) refer to Jesus sitting at God's right hand, if that is the case, then you contradict the birth of Jesus (Allah's Blessing and peace be upon him). Here is the question again, when Jesus was born of woman, it means he was created. Yes or No?. We read in your Bible he was born, and how he grew up stage by stage, including being circumcised etc. So you and your Bible contradicted. Not only that. You contradict yourself, Bible contradicts itself and you and Bible contradict each other. I hope you understand my breakdown? the Messiah is actually the latter in Psalm 110:1 made flesh for the purpose of Redemption, but had been with the Father from the begnning,Unfortunately, this is no different from average human beings like you and I. We were with God before our mothers conceived us. Or where do you think we were?. The difference is Jesus was sanctified and made prophet, without father. He was just like other prophets. Where do you think you were before you became flesh (before your mom gave birth to you)?. Weren't you with God?. That is what the verse is saying. If you disagree, then, you will NEVER be able to figure it out....NEVER! As if this was not enough, Malvis quoted Micah 5:2I didnt even have this {Micah 5:2} book in any of my Bibles. I am hearing this for the first time. Kind of discrepancies we talked about Bible. Got it?. I will review it online to see what it is saying. Thanks for quoting this. 6 Likes 3 Shares |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 1:26pm On Feb 24, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Allah is God for short. Allah is God of heavens and earth. No one shares in His dominion. He is The First and the Last. He is the Creator of all that exist. Different people from different background can call him any Names - so long as the Names are not contaminated. ("Invoke Allah or invoke Ar-Rahman (the Most Gracious), by whatever name you invoke Him (it is the same), for to Him belong the Best Names.) ~ Holy Qur'an You see, your last summary shows that you stalled and you are at crossroad. It is clear that Christians have no idea who Jesus really was. I just have to commend you for your time and effort. You gave your best shot. Thanks for your time. 3 Likes 3 Shares |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 1:12pm On Feb 24, 2016 |
malvisguy212:And in the verse you quoted and your explanation, where does it say Jesus is God?. Thats all i want to hear. Muslims have no problem Jesus is messiah. Quran also says he is messiah. Messiah by definition means: 1. the promised and expected deliverer of the Jewish people. 2.Jesus Christ, regarded by Christians as fulfilling this promise and expectation. John 4:25, 26. 3.(usually lowercase) any expected deliverer. 4.(usually lowercase) a zealous leader of some cause or project. 1. the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible. 2. a leader or savior of a particular group or cause. Malvis, let me ask you this. It seems you are hiding your creed or it seems you do not believe Jesus is God, you do not believe in "trinity". Yes or No? 1 Like |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 5:06am On Feb 24, 2016 |
This Old Man Is Marrying A 12 Year-Old Girl. How The People Of New York React? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KldFGgUTqKA |
| Islam › Re: Is Marrying More Than One Wife Sunnah?if So,why Do We Shy Away From It? by Empiree: 4:29am On Feb 24, 2016*. Modified: 4:52am On Feb 24, 2016 |
..........[size=20pt]JOYFUL MARRIAGE[/size] ............... Love is a disease and its only cure is to get married to the one you love! The first thing Allah gave prophet Adam alayhi wasallam was knowledge and the second thing was marriage! How important! The house of the prophet salallahu alayhi wasallam was not a house of indomie and spaghetti, it was a house of ibadah, as well as a house filled with love and ecstacy! The prophet was very romantic and sweet to his wives! It was narrated that, every morning, the rasul salallahu alayhi wassalam would greet all his wives from one room to another with tasleem! How many men do these today? The ummahatul mumineen radi Allahu anhunna reported that, the prophet would NEVER pass by any of them around the house witout doing something lovely to that person (winking, kissing, hugging, poking, touching her jilbab, smiling), and if he doesn't do any to one of them, it means the prophet is angry with that person! # Subhanallah, he expresses anger wit silence Aisha radiAllahu anha said, the rasul salallahu alayhi wassalam NEVER raised his hands to hit any woman or slave (abu dawud) The prophet never made any of his wives shed tears for even one day despite being married to over 12 wives, today, some men cannot even make only one woman happy! The rasul salallahu alayhi wassalam would race with his wives. The rasul would drink and eat from the same cup and plate with them. He salallahu alayhi wasallam would adorn himself for them and he was the most handsome man to ever exist! Narrated Aishah (RA), I used to comb the hair of Allah's Apostle during my periods.".. (Sahih Bukhari, Volume7, Book72, Number808).... The Prophet saallalahu alayhi wasallam would recite Qur'an while resting his head on the laps of Aisha while she is menstruating! How many men go near their wife when she is impure? The prophet would kiss his wives after ablution! How many men do this? Allah said, in the messenger of Allah is the best example for you to follow. Seriously, many couples lack romance in their marriage today! They stop saying (I love you) after maybe 2yrs of marriage! Say it forever even at the age of 100! Race with your spouse! Teach your spouse how to drive! Cook together, play together, drop your phones and spend time together with FULL attention. Buy gifts for each other, write (I love u) on a small note and hide it under your spouse's pillow, bag, cupboard or pocket! Whenever he/she sees it, it will definitely attract a smile☺ Make your house lively and lovely, not a library! To hell with valentiine, celebrate your own love everyday! Teach your wife the deen, buy her niqabs, jilbab, socks and gloves that matches the same color! #MA_SHA_ALLAH Help her when she is dressing up, learn how to tie nikab for her! Spray perfume on her when she is at home. Do balloon fights, play games, hide and seek, gym together, do boxing, do the chores together! Wake her for tahajjud with a peck! Send her text messages from your work place! When you travel, chat with her on whatsapp/BBM. If u have more wives, then a GROUP CHAT will be a good idea! [size=20pt]Sisters Too[/size] One day, When your husband has gone to work, rush all the chores, clean all the cleanables and dust all the dustables, prepare his favourite meal, on the fans and AC! Prepare the bedroom. Pink background colour is not a bad idea! Go take your bath and wear a seductive swaggerlicious attire! Then spray perfume and sit in the center chair in the sitting room waiting for him! So that when the young man returns from a hard day's job sweating profusely, as soon as he opens the door into the house, the first thing he sees is his angel cross legged looking "pepperistically" smashing and smiling on her face. His love for you is sure to increase! Save your marriage from divorce, don't ignore the little things that can strengthen your love, there is NO shyness between spouses! Dance for him if you are able to! Bath together! Escort him to the car. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 12:50am On Feb 24, 2016*. Modified: 1:13am On Feb 24, 2016 |
malvisguy212:Good. Jesus is NOT God, period. Correct? 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 12:48am On Feb 24, 2016 |
malvisguy212: 1 Like |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 11:43pm On Feb 23, 2016 |
Hkana:A little confused. Can you highlight bolded part in the hadith?. "addressees" of-course, are Muslims (my understanding). |
| Islam › Re: Is Marrying More Than One Wife Sunnah?if So,why Do We Shy Away From It? by Empiree: 8:42pm On Feb 23, 2016 |
enieme:Hes saying to u indirectly to be his 3rd wife.....why u dey quarrel with him |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 8:29pm On Feb 23, 2016*. Modified: 1:01pm On Feb 24, 2016 |
Scholar8200:I told you "mutawathir" . Did you care to research what that means? Emp:and then you asked again... By what means is the highlighted measured? Does that not mean anyone can fabricate something carefully ensuring that it meets that specification?Search for mutawathir Empire.e:Highlighted part, you and malvisguy seem to contradict each other. I read his post up there. Emp:What is "Begotten" by Christians' definition? Where was Isaiah called son? I said Isaiah also called the SON(The Pre-Incarnated Christ) the Mighty God!Bible God begot other sons/Sons too mister When Christianity says: God is 3 in 1 and that's the mystery of the Divine Nature. Agreed to since the time of the OT (BCE period).Bolded has nothing mystical about it. It is pure innovation. Underlined, muslims have no problem who God Almighty is. God is God, Holy spirit/ruh qudus/Gabriel is what is it, Jesus is what he is. Quran is very clear. We are not confused about God's Nature and Attributes. I have told you the Word that preceded from God is merely "Be and it is" that's what brought Jesus into being, including you and I. When we were in our mother's womb, it is the same kind of spirit that Allah breathed into us at certain stage that gave us life. The difference is here Jesus had no father. It is the same profound spirit that preceded from Allah into every human. Here is a verse of Quran where God mentions Ruh Surat as-Sajda, 7-9 ثُمَّ سَوَّاهُ وَنَفَخَ فِيهِ مِن [size=30pt]رُّوحِهِ[/size] ۖ وَجَعَلَ لَكُمُ السَّمْعَ وَالْأَبْصَارَ وَالْأَفْئِدَةَ ۚ قَلِيلًا مَّا تَشْكُرُونَ Harun Yahya: “He Who has created all things in the best possible way. He commenced the creation of man from clay; then produced his seed from an extract of base fluid; then formed him and breathed His Soul into him and gave you hearing, sight and hearts. What little thanks you show!” Yusuf Ali: "But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!" Khan: "Then He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him the soul (created by Allah for that person); and He gave you hearing (ears), sight (eyes) and hearts. Little is the thanks you give!" Pickthal: "Then He fashioned him and breathed into him of His Spirit; and appointed for you hearing and sight and hearts. Small thanks give ye! You see underlined?. It is the same spirit that preceded from God when He created Jesus. He breathed same type of spirit in every human in our mother's womb. We all have God's Light in us. That's naturally inbuilt. It is general rule. #Mystery is, when it comes to God, we do not know His begining and He does not have ending. He does not sleep nor slumber. He does not eat. ETC #Mystery is, when it comes to Spirit, we do not have full knowledge of them as Quran rightly said: "(And they ask you concerning the Ruh (the spirit). Say: "The Ruh (the spirit) is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord...'' Q 17:85 #Mystery is, when it comes to human, we do not know where we were pre-existence (before we became flesh), using your term. This is the same as Jesus. All of us were with God before, like Jesus said he was with God. So you can not just merge these three (3) and make it One (1) i:e 3 in 1 as you called it. That's fabrication! So clearly "mystery" that you talking about is not what i am talking about. God is distinct from his creatures. Got it? Emp:Exactly! And did Muhammad not claim what he brought was from God?. He also said he did not speak of his own as Quran alleges. And Quran that he brought glorifies Jesus,isnt? Surah 53: 1 By the star when it goes down (or vanishes). 2 Your companion (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) has neither gone astray nor has erred. 3 Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. 4 It is only a Revelation revealed. 5 He has been taught (this Qur'an) by one mighty in power [Jibril (Gabriel)] Ezekiel made the prophecy in Ezekiel 36:27, of the Spirit dwelling in the believers.Scroll up there....refer to my analysis. Before I answer, kindly answer my questions on purgatory and Jesus being there as was claimed!Think you skipped this. Was first answered when you posted reply. Unless you want further explanation! Spoken not in arabic and has being a way of greeting long before this time!And did he speak English when the Bible says "Peace be upon you"?. Arabic is "Salam alaikum". So proof to me Jesus actually spoke "peace be upon you". What exactly was his greeting when he appeared to disciples? Since you want to use the Bible, see this:Many Christian debaters have used "historian agreement"'s claim that Jesus died by crucifixion. Muslims theologian's response likewise is that the historians who agree on this agree that his death is complete and final. Dr. Shabir Ali alleged: "Every homicide detective and historian knows that a person must be presumed to have died only after he was last seen alive. If we tell these very historians that Jesus was seen alive after the event of his death they would either disregard our claim that Jesus was seen alive again, or they would conclude that Jesus was not really dead in the first place." 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 5:15pm On Feb 23, 2016*. Modified: 3:09am On Feb 24, 2016 |
Scholar8200:At this point, this case will be categorized under the end of this verse of Quran 2:44 Your reaction to this suggests you might have supported those who wanted to stone Him when He said so.That was because Jews at that time understood Tawheed (God Is One). It is considered shirk (blasphemy) when Jesus said "I and my Father are One" John 10:30-33, Jews understood the statement literally. That's why they wanted to stone him because they understood very well; for someone to say he is God is unacceptable in their doctrine. We already dealt with this passsages. Is there ANY prophet that used that statement as a metaphor? NO! Taking it literally corresponds with the other passages about Him as One Who had been with the Father!How was Jesus born?. Came down from Heaven or born from va*gina of a woman?......which one? which other prophet made use of similar statements? Taking it literally agrees with other NT and OT passages about Him. Assuming that it is metaphorical puts it at variance with many passages of scripture!And whats so special for saying "I leave this world"?. Similar statement can be found in the ahadith. So whats special about it? Not when the qualifier-Only Begotten- is used! It seems you assume everything to be metaphorical! If I may ask, on what authority? What similar passages agree with that claim?First all, saying Jesus is son of God is not what himself favored. It was people who called him by that and he quickly retracted their statement. Luke 22:70 Before I respond further on this, [size=15pt]What Is Definition Of "Begotten" According To Christianity?[/size] to be in the spirit means they are Inspired. That means David said what he said by Inspiration ,Psalm 110:1 Yahweh said to L'Adonis both referring to different Personalities by he that firmly believed GOD is One!@bolded part, that's it. It means when Bible says Jesus was in spirit, it means he was inspired. Anything else?The OT and the NT says contrary. The above is your opinion. But why would God waith milleniums till 500-600 AD?And why would God ordered OT and NT prophets He Is One?. Quran also says God Is One, you should have agreed with Quran. The Lord (not Isaiah)said,''Whom shall I send! He further said ''Who will go for Us''I am indifferent of course. Here it is again: Isaiah: "Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying," Lord: "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Isaiah: "Then said I, Here am I; send me." Isaiah 6:8 Now, who is "US" mentioned by Lord? This is always spoken by muslims as a way of desiring the Bible be re-written to agree with the Quran, no wonder many fell and are still falling for the sham 'gospel of Barnabas'.We do not glorify Barnabas. We only deduce from it like we do other Gospels. Pretty simple. Gospel of Barnabas can never stand Quran, at all. The Lord preserved His Word and that is what we have today. Has any one making these claims been able to provide a manuscript that seem to agree with what you have in the Quran? NO!Brother, I love you for the sake of Allah. Please be reasonable. I usually dont have time for most christians like i have with you. @underlined should have been clear to you it could never be knowing fully well there are unknown authors and writers of the Gospels. We have discussed in this thread extensively on this. May I advice you review this thread from page 0 to get glimpse what I am talking about?. This is your word earlier in this thread. Scholar8200:Can you read yourself again uncle?. Even biography of great men are interpolated. Martin Luther King Jr's story is corrupted as well and many more like that. How could Gospels written after Jesus be accurate?. Even Prophet Muhammad(p)'s seerat (biography) and hadith (saying/deeds) are partially mixed. Thank God for Quran. Prove the highlighted factually! The translators were faithful to the context and an unbiased consideration of the statements and contexts vis a vis other similar passages makes the focus clear to us.Please refer to previous pages. It is not what Muslims said either. It is what Christian Theologians have said overtime. You need to read previous pages, please. So you mean God did not preserve His Word but will accuse them of neglecting some parts (which He did not preserve) and even promise judgement and will cause hatred among His people!?! This is defamation of character!!!This is simple and was also discussed previously. I will try to phrase my post here again. Hopefully i can find where my post is. Read this for the mean time. There are reason previous revealed Holy Books were not preserved: #They were only meant for a particular group of people and limited to a particular point in time. Allah revealed the Quran for all mankind and He took it upon Himself to preserve it till the last day. Neither Jesus nor Moses and other prophets and messengers claimed they were sent to the whole world. Hence, their holy Books were left for the people. Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: "The Prophet said, 'I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me. 1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey. 2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum, therefore anyone of my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due. 3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me. 4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection). 5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind .' (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 7, Number 331) # The former scriptures (some Laws) NOT Tawheed (God Is One) were abrogated by the latter. "Whatever message We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or one like it: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?” (Quran 2:106) # Allah didn't promise to preserve the previous books. The responsibility of preserving those scriptures was entrusted to the rabbis and the priests. " ... And the rabbis and the priests (judged according to their Scriptures), for to them was entrusted the protection of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses to it... " (Quran 5:44) Did they Rabbis and Priests) preserve their Holy Books? is Gabriel the custodian of Allah's spirit? Did you not say that Ruh al-Qudus is the spirit that proceed from Allah? Who is greater Gabriel or the Mysterious spirit that proceeds from Allah?Who appeared to Mary when she was in seclusion? God preserved His Word and the KJV agrees with the preserved manuscripts!Okay, sir. I understand many Christians hold KJV esteem. But King James is faulted. If you read preface of RSV, it criticizes KJV for inconsistencies. I have read KJV. It's getting worse everyday. Do you even realize that there are new King James, too? They are called New King James Version(NKJV), Authorized (King James) Version and King James Bible. The names are just confusing. This is Revised Standard Version(RSV) preface: Visit p.9 PREFACE [size=4pt]The Revised Standard Version of the Bible is an authorized revision of the American Standard Version, published in 1901, which was a revision of the King James Version, published in 1611. The first English version of the Scriptures made by direct translation from the original Hebrew and Greek, and the first to be printed, was the work of William Tyndale. He met bitter opposition. He was accused of willfully per- verting the meaning of the Scriptures, and his New Testaments were ordered to be burned as "untrue translations." He was finally betrayed into the hands of his enemies, and in October 1536 ? was publicly executed and burned at the stake. Yet Tyndale's work became the foundation of subsequent English versions, notably those of Coverdale, 1535; Thomas Matthew (probably a pseudonym for John Rogers), 1537; the Great Bible, 1539; the Geneva Bible, 1560; and the Bishops' Bible, 1568. In 1582 a translation of the New Testament, made from the Latin Vulgate by Roman Catholic scholars, was published at Rheims. The translators who made the King James Version took into account all of these preceding versions; and comparison shows that it owes something to each of them. It kept felicitous phrases and apt expressions, from whatever source, which had stood the test of public usage. It owed most, especially in the New Testament, to Tyndale. The King James Version had to compete with the Geneva Bible in popular use; but in the end it prevailed, and for more than two and a half centuries no other authorized translation of the Bible into English was made. The King James Version became the "Authorized Version" of the English-speaking peoples.[/size] The King James Version has with good reason been termed "the noblest monument of English prose." Its revisers in 1881 expressed admiration for "its simplicity, its dignity, its power, its happy turns of expression . . . the music of its cadences, and the felicities of its rhythm." It entered, as no other book has, into the making of the personal character and the public institutions of the English-speaking peoples. We owe to it an incalculable debt. Yet the King James Version has GRAVE DEFECTS. By the middle of the nine- teenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for revision Source: http://archive.org/stream/OxfordAnnotatedBibleRevisedStandardVersion-r.s.v.1952/TheOxfordAnnotatedBibleR.s.v.1952_djvu.txt your opinion. The 4 Gospels capture the Christ after He was made flesh.  Now a 21st century man will disclaim a Fact that has been there for milleniums simply because he cannot grasp it! As though God dealt with none till 500-600 AD!!!Obviously, this is irrelevant read previous posts first you claim it was corrupted; next it was neglected; again you claim we have forgotten, then you were asked to seek clarifications from the people of the Book@bolded all same thing under INTERPOLATION. Quran NEVER asked Muslims to refer to or seek clarification from Gospels written after Jesus(p). None of the NT is Gospel Of Jesus, the Injil (inspiration). You said yourself that NT was written after his ascension. There is no covenant but thaty ratified by Blood!Please visit P. 10. "Blood of Jesus" is innovation by Paul and co. Has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus. According to Christians, "blood of Jesus" was necessary for their salvation. This is contrary to Jesus's teachings. Why can't God just forgive without shedding human blood. This is what Jesus said...he thought people how to pray for forgiveness. Matthew 6:13-14Good News Translation (GNT) Do not bring us to hard testing, but keep us safe from the Evil One.’ “If you forgive others the wrongs they have done to you, your Father in heaven will also forgive you." Matthew 6:12New Life Version (NLV) Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us. Another proof is in the Bible that you dont need blood to be shed to have salvation. Proof of this can be found where someone asked Jesus what he can do to have eternal life. The passage is located in: Luke 10:25-27Good News Translation (GNT) A teacher of the Law came up and tried to trap Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to receive eternal life?” Jesus answered him, “What do the Scriptures say? How do you interpret them?” The man answered, [size=14pt]“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind’; and ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’”[/size] Then, the man said: “You are right,” Jesus replied; [size=15pt]“do this and you will live.”[/size] Luke 10:28-29 Very simple. What do you need "blood of Jesus" for? Then, this mumbo jumbo came up from nowhere: Matthew 26:28Good News Translation (GNT) “this is my blood, which seals God's covenant, my blood poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." Hebrews 9:22Good News Translation (GNT) Indeed, according to the Law almost everything is purified by blood, and sins are forgiven only if blood is poured out. The First Covenant Allah Made With You Is God Is One. No Partners or Associate. He has No Son. No Son Or Holy Spirit Helped Him In His Creation Of Heavens And Earth. God Did Not Come Down TO Earth In Flesh. To Him Alone Belongs The Dominion Of Heavens And Earth. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Story: How Witchcraft Has Ruined Our Family by Empiree: 3:18pm On Feb 23, 2016 |
kelzi11:I won't deny such thing exist. But be careful not to accuse the wrong person. First, # is there any known hereditary disease you know of running in the family? # is there any similarities in the deaths of your family member i:e chain of events? # have you and others seen orthodox medical professionals for proper check ups? # the suspect, is there a way you people can distance yourself, relocate, and minimize communication with him (disinformation)?. # yourself and others, are you steadfast on prayer? |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 3:55am On Feb 23, 2016 |
The Prophet (may Allah bestow peace and blessing upon him) said, "When my Companions are mentioned then refrain." (Tabarani) This is the best policy when the companions are mentioned in an disrespectful manner. Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bestow upon him peace and blessings) said, "Do not abuse my Companions, do not curse my companions. I swear by Him who possess my soul, that if any of you were to spend gold equal to (mountain of) Uhud in charity, it would not equal a few handfuls of one of them or even half of that." (Bukhari 5 and Muslim 221) The Prophet (may Allah bestow peace and blessings upon him) said, "The sign of faith is love of the Ansar and the sign of hypocrisy is the hatred of Ansar." Bukhari and Muslim. The Messenger of Allah (may Allah bestow upon him peace and blessings) said, "Whoever abuses my Companions, upon them is the curse of Allah, the angels and all the people." (Tabarani) http://sheikhynotes..com/2010/04/quran-and-prophetic-narrations-of.html 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 9:04pm On Feb 22, 2016*. Modified: 1:07pm On Feb 23, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Brother, for God's sake, I really want to help you here. You just keep digging hole for yourself when i read your replies. Sometimes, i just wait it out and relax myself before responding bcus I feel like you are unconsciously coalescing identity of Jesus. This get muslims tired. As you can see from op's picture signature, he's tired. When I read over your reply now, it seems like you dont really listen to yourself. I dont blame bcus you kind of humble in your responses. I want to get you to Think and REASON again using your very own replies. I also think Christians play "hide and seek" game. That is, they use "flesh" to describe Jesus where and when it is convenient for them. Maybe we need to get neutral person to give their opinion on this. I mean non-muslim, non-christian. Now pay close attention at underlined and at bolded. They are your words. Point #1: Now look at the first underlined, you said he was born. He in the sentence refers to Jesus, correct?. So Jesus was born. But earlier, remember you said God has no beginning, no ending and the Bible says nothing looks like him. But Jesus looks like us. Point #2: Bolded part says "I came down from heaven" which could also mean he was born. We all (including empire and scholar) came down from heaven in that sense. So he came down for ministry not of his(Jesus) own accord but (read the last clause) on behalf of the One (God) who sent him(Jesus). Can you see two different personalities in this passage of the Bible?. The verse is very clear that Jesus is a messenger. I know you gonna bring about "he was in flesh". Honestly, that's a theory innovated - that has absolutely nothing significant. I am doing breakdown for you sir. Point #3 Look at this verse of the Bible 'I' i:e Jesus came from the Father. The same 'I' appears in the second sentence I leave the world, and go to the Father. "Father in this sentence is God indicating another personality. Two different people. Which indicates that he was sent by God to Children of Israel to deliver message like other prophets and messengers before him. And then he(Jesus) went back to Him(Allah), just like other prophets. Are you getting it, sir? Point #4: Here Jesus is called son of David. He is also called Son of God. I am sure he is also called son of other men in the Bible like - "Jesus son of Josef". This i have said earlier that "son" is metaphorically used in the Bible. Empire and scholar are also sons of God because we are debating intelligently and for others to learn few things as well. A thief who reforms himself is also son of God. A good Samaritan is also son of God. Remember in primary school, when we make noise in class, our teachers used to tell us to be quiet and they would say son of God dont make noise. Son of the devil do. This brings a critical question actually. If Jesus is Son of God (whatever that means to you), how then he is also the Father at the same time?. Point #5: You called Jesus(p) a messiah @ underlined. What is messiah by definition?. The Bible verse you quoted indicating holy spirit does not in anyway proof Jesus's Divinity. Do you not have pastors who also claim they are in spirit (when they are doing their thing)?. Does that make them Divine? Point #6: It is now clear by my breakdown now that Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of God - (SENT) by God is God's creature?. I tried hard to break it down for you mister. Point #7: You dont need Phd to figure out there is a conflict in Isaiah 9:6. a child is also the Father hummm. Remove the clog from your eyes mister. Point #8: All God's prophets and messengers (including Jesus) believed in One God WITHOUT partner(s). The confusion lies with translators and writers of the Bible. For as long as you believe in the Bible, you will NEVER, ever be able to correctly figure out identity of Jesus. Bible clearly differentiate him from God. In other part it mixes them up which suggests CORRUPTION, DISTORTION, OMITTION and ADDITION of the Bible. Open your eyes. We talk about different Bible writers earlier in this thread, about unknown people from unknown places at unknown places. If this doesnt awake your heart i dont know what else will.. Mystery about God is, we do not know His beginning and He does not have ending. And other non- human Attributes of His. That's it. No human incarnation with God, no trinity etc. Point #9: I dont think this is hard though. I am glad you understand the royal We unlike your fellow Christians who stubbornly distort it essence. Now let's break this down. Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. Isaiah 6:8 "I" represent Isaiah (or whoever the speaker was). Bolded part is God speaking (according to this verse). The last sentence "Then I said I , here I am ; send me." is the same first person speaking, Isaiah (or whoever the speaker was). This verse only needed to be properly punctuated. Thats all. Like this: Isaiah 6:8 "Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, 'Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?'. Then said 'I, Here am I; send me'". Anything confusing you here?. "Us" in the verse denotes God. Royal Us. -Who did the Bible refer to there? The People who did not recognise His being the Messiah!Now, Jesus is Messiah here?. What is Messiah? -Jesus never said this to Peter when the latter declared by Inspiration,"Thou art the Christ, The Son of the Living God"! Why? It Agrees with Scripture just like Jesus said in MAtthew 22:42-44To be honest with you, I dont want to attach the quote for Mat 22:42-44. Dont want to waste more time. I believe Bible or Gospel needs to be rewrote with original manuscripts (which is unfortunately lost by 80 percent anyways). When i was reading Mat 22:42-44, the case letter for son and lord are lower cases. Also mixed with upper cases. This is clear deception and manipulation. In my opinion, if they are to ever re-write Bible, not only will they need to work on proper translation but also punctuations and cases. Your Book is very confusing. Thats why there are different doctrines in Christendom. However, this is not by accident by the way. The reason you are all confused and having different doctrines is bcus you reject Faith(Truth). As a result of that, God sealed your heart. Read what Quran says to this effect. SUrah Maidah (5:14) [Al-Muntakhab Translation] "And with those who declare themselves Christians, We entered into a covenant: Never deviate from the path of righteousness and adhere faithfully to the authentic Scriptures. But they willfully neglected a part of what was imparted to them. In consequence, We stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection. Allah shall inform them of their habitual course of action relevant to their evil deeds, and punish them accordingly." Muhammad Sarwar Translation "We had made a solemn covenant with those who call themselves Christians, but they forgot their share of the guidance that was sent to them. We have induced hatred and animosity among them which will remain with them until the Day of Judgment when God will tell them about what they had done." M. M. Pickthall Translation "And with those who say: "Lo! we are Christians," We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished. Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork." See that ? ^. Christians will never agree on the identity of Jesus, NEVER! Some will continue to say Jesus is God until Judgement Day. Other Chrisrians will also say "no, he is not". -The highlighted has been clarified. Besides, do you mean you agree in the intrinsically evil nature of the flesh and all material things as the Gnostics do?First all, nothing wrong with flesh biologically. It is God who created it. God is Good. It depends on how we use ourselves. But to declare that "flesh" is inherently evil is vile. However, maybe I should ask you if what you meant by "flesh" here is different?. -That John was actually warning against the contaminatory efforts of the Gnostics who believe the Word never became flesh because to them, the flesh is intrinsically evil! Now this further shows that John simply recovered the Facts and Understanding stolen as it were by the Gnostic Greeks!Well, if you are referring to creation of Jesus @ underlined, yes, the Creative Power of Allah "Be! and he (Jesus came into being) and it is" brought Jesus into being. In that case, Jesus became a man born of woman. So yes, in that case Gnostics are incorrect. But while you are correct that Word became flesh, using that term, to you the Word that became flesh is God which is tantamount to falsehood. Allah was not present physically with Mary. It was Angel Gabriel, through him, Allah breathed into Maryam(as) of His(Allah) spirit. That's why we Christians denounce some versions. Now go compare the Greek here:http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-18.htmIs there a legitimate body that oversees translations of the Bible?. For instance, in Islam, almost in every Muslim country, one can not just print Quran without going through extensive scrutiny. You can go to jail if you translate and print nonsense. Why dont they have the same institution in Christianity so that every Tom, Dick and Harry dont translate and print garbage?. Another Bible is about to be published, "Kanye Gospel". Perhaps this Bible will be Hip Hop friendly like Skate, Kiddie, Gay and Women's Gospels. The list goes on. Emp.Yes, it is always about the flesh. You use flesh when it sooths you. Allow me to do quick case experiment. Since you believe God, Jesus and holy Ghost are one (3-1), it means all three are not detachable, correct?. Implications are quiet profound. That means, #when Jesus was on ministry on earth, the three of them are there all along #he was flesh and at that moment or for those moment of years on earth, no one was custodian of heavens etc #When Jesus was crucified (according to you), it means all three were on the cross together #plus he was seen by people Now, with these four implications mentioned above, clearly, they contradict John 5:37. So the idea of Jesus being God and man at the same time is nothing but innovation after Jesus. Read this verse of Quran again. "And with those who declare themselves Christians, We entered into a covenant: Never deviate from the path of righteousness and adhere faithfully to the authentic Scriptures. But they willfully neglected a part of what was imparted to them. In consequence, We stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection. Allah shall inform them of their habitual course of action relevant to their evil deeds, and punish them accordingly." Covenant mentioned in the verse is the believe in and worship of One God which the verse further said you have forgotten. There is nowhere to my knowledge where Jesus acknowledged being God and flesh. This is forgery penned down by men after this mighty messenger of Allah had ascended. Enough said 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Islam › Re: The Islamic Dilemma Regarding The Quran And Bible by Empiree: 3:53pm On Feb 22, 2016 |
Walaikum Salaam Brother, don't be soft and be deceived on this. I don't succumb to their antics at all. Read my attachments. It's not just about getting them close to God. It's rather blasphemy and making mockery of Divine Book. Not even all christians agree with some of those versions. The idea that they want to get Gay people etc closer to God is just a dust in our eyes. The real agenda is THEIR PERVERSION OF TRUTH. I don't even know Gay Bible is what they called QJV {Queen James Version}. They have women's Bible too. Places where 'he' is used for Jesus, they changed it to "she". Thats feminism by the way because they said why would every leaders in history had to be male all the time. So they produced their own Gospel. Another Gospel is underway called "Kanye Gospel". That one will be hip hop bible https://carm.org/queen-james-bible
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| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 10:59pm On Feb 21, 2016*. Modified: 3:19am On Feb 22, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Yes, of course but only in the sense that He (God) NOT Jesus has no beginning, no ending, not born of human, does not eat, drink, sleep, does not die, was not hanged or nailed, can not be seen by human, does not look like human or anything, has no genealogy. And the list goes on. That is mystery. But Jesus is not because he had the beginning (was born by a woman). He died according to you( was captured, hanged or nailed on the cross), he ate, he slept, he poo poo, he has genealogy, he was seen by human and the list goes on. See how simple that was?. That's Islam. Nothing complicated at all. Two distinctive (B)beings. Meaning there is no part of the Quran that actually/expressedly verifies that hadith?I'd rather ignore this because you will never understand if you dont understand identity of Jesus let alone God. No pawn intended Now is it allowed that a hadith validates another hadith? Especially when the former might not (subject to your answer to penultimate question)have been expressedly validated in the Quran?@underlined, yes. It is called "mutawathir" when a hadith has sound chains of narration to the prophet(p) himself, especially when the ahadith are identical and expressed or narrated by different sahaba multiple times. So it applies to the issue of 'grant'. Dajjal is also a case study. Oh Christians too can: GOD!Hmmm God is ALL three?: God, Holy Ghost and Jesus? I hail thee. This was the question: Empire.e: To deny the Divinity of the Son is to deny everything about the Work of Redemption! How then is such an one a Christian? It is a mystery revealed to an extent. But we cannot force our intellect to complete the parts not revealed in understanding. That will be heretical.In that case how about other Sons of God mentioned in the Bible?. Aren't they supposed to be Divine as well since they too are Sons?. Listen uncle scholar, you dont understand. What Bible meant by Son/son is metaphorical. If you said no, then, this is in conflict with ALL three (God, Holy Ghost and Jesus) you mentioned above because you said all three are God and now you said Son is also God. Who is the "Son" ? Quran condemns this; And say, "Praise to Allah , who has not taken a son and has had no partner in [His] dominion and has no [need of a] protector out of weakness; and glorify Him with [great] glorification." Sura 17:111 "And they say, "The Most Merciful has taken [for Himself] a son.",' preach a monstrous falsehood, at which the very heavens might crack, the earth split asunder, and the mountains crumble to dust. That they attribute to the Most Merciful a son, And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son.." Sura 19:88- "Say, [O Muhammad], {to the Christians} "If the Most Merciful had a son, then I would be the first of [his] worshippers." Surah 43:81 [size=15pt]"And to warn those who say, " Allah has taken a son." They have no knowledge of it, nor had their fathers. Grave is the word that comes out of their mouths; they speak not except a lie."[/size] Surah 18: 4-5 When the Father said (referring to the Son):Good. @bolded, so why wasn't Isaiah Divine as well.....since he's also called Son with upper case 'S'?. Are you being discriminatory and cherry picking here? "son" is metaphorical?. I rest my case. The Father is, was and ever shall be!How about Jesus and Holy Ghost....why leave them out?. Dont you think you just got everything messed up now?. It is mystery? [size=13pt]I asked: " Who was governing the rest of the planet at that point the flesh suffered limitations?"[/size] You Said:Confusion. Mister, it is time to transit from Christianity to Islam. Your choice And was Mohammed's witness in agreement with that of Jesus' disciples! If the Criteria for the mortal men here was that they had ben with Him from the commencement of His earthly ministry, does Muhammed, another mortal, qualify on this ground?It was only a revelation to Muhammad(p). He was not there when Jesus was said to have foretold of him. Allah only relaid the message to him in the Quran to assure him of his messangership and prophethood If the only way Jesus would be glorified was to be by writing, then the Spanish author of the failed 'gospel of barnabas' could also make similar claims on ground of his book!And what other way(s) do you also anticipate. Elaborate, please?. Jesus plainly said,"...the Spirit of Truth which proceeds from the Father"Prophet Muhammad is also called Al-Amin (the Trustworthy) Note that this was a promise for the future!Yup!. At the time Jesus(p) made the prophecy, Muhammad (p) was yet to arrive. What other future do you anticipate, past or present? If this be true then Jesus was actually crucified and He died!!! Then, His resurrection is likewise true!!! Else, He is not there meaning the claim that all mankind goes there is Wrong! Otherwise, He is not ordinary Man hence though HE came as a Man, He still did not go there because He was also beyond Man! By implication, the record and account in the Bible is right ab initio!@underlined, to keep it simple and staright forward, since you said Jesus is god, then it means your God was killed by the very same people he created, correct?. THINK BROTHER, think. Jesus Appears to the Disciples Now, concerning so called death of Jesus or the alleged crucifixion, Bible disagrees with you, sir. There is no need to post Quran. As disciples thought was dead, Jesus appeared to them as reported by Luke, (Luke 24:36-50) 36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” i:e Salaam Alaikum 37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”[u] 40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, [u]“Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence. Anything else? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 9:10pm On Feb 21, 2016*. Modified: 12:38am On Feb 22, 2016 |
Now Muslims claim David as one of Islam's prophets but I hope you realise he wrote both Psalms up there!Well, Psalms suffered pretty much same fate as Bible/Gospel in form of distortions as well. You dont see muslims teach these Book. Although, I read and taught zabura(Psalms) in madrassa growing up. But not as you have it today. Even then, it was some pages not the entire thing. The portions that are in harmony with Quran. One of the appearances of the Pre-Incarnated Christ is His visit to Abraham in company of 2 angels and Jesus would go on to cement this when He said He was before Abraham.John 8:58 What then?This was interpreted by some Islamic scholars as (Jesus- p) having foreknowledge of Abraham just like prophet Muhammad(p). And that supposed to mean he is God? Na uncle. Further investigations by Islamic scholars reveals that John 8:58's deliberate mistranslation of Jesus saying "I AM" with new evidence from the Greek language! Here is the text - 1- The text (findings) of John 8:58. *****Jesus was the foretold Messiah and the greatest and final Jewish Prophet. *****Jesus also was the heir who will inherit the earth. Throughout the Bible, Jesus Christ is recorded to have made many claims regarding how GOD Almighty is Higher and Greater than him. These statements should be clear enough to demonstrate and prove that Jesus Christ, the Messiah (anointed, chosen to be the lord/leader/master of the Jews, their final Prophet), is no more than a creation of GOD Almighty. However, Christians often bring few verses that supposedly prove otherwise; that Jesus is GOD Almighty Himself. Such verses are: John 1, John 8:58, Colossians 1:15-16 and perhaps few others. Here is how John 8 reads; thanks to a Muslim scholar who research this. You need to do yourself a favor. Read the entire John 8 verse 1:58. In the passage, Jesus was abruptly interrupted by the Jews who got fed up from him. They thought that he was insulting their intelligence and their cherished faith by talking blasphemous garbage (such as Abraham rejoiced for him (John 8:56) and other things). It is clear that Jesus was most likely interrupted and wasn't heard finishing up his sentence. Also, the context of Jesus' words were about seeing Abraham before he was even born. This is nothing new in the Bible. In the Old Testament, we read: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)" [size=20pt]"[/size][/b]Since Jesus was created from the Word of GOD Almighty, and since also our human-spirits are also created from the Holy Spirit, and since Jesus was a Word from the Word of Allah Almighty, then it is quite possible for him to have known, or seen the records of the future human-creations that were going to be created on earth, such as Abraham and others. After all, Allah Almighty uses Angels, Spirits and other created Beings of His to create creations under His Command. Things in the spiritual realm are different. Existence in the spiritual world, including our spirits, is Eternal. Our earthly bodies are not Eternal. [b]So, Jesus having a prior knowledge about Abraham's spirit is nothing unusual in the spiritual world. Abraham here was used by Jesus because the Jews used him as their highest and greatest Prophet against Jesus. So it wasn't Jesus who brought up Abraham. It was the Jews. Otherwise, Jesus would not have mentioned Abraham or any earthly creation. Read John 8:33. Also, Jesus is the foretold Messiah, the anointed/selected final and greatest Prophet for the Jews, who will come and establish peace on earth and rule the earth in the end. The Old Testament makes it clear that the Messiah will inherit and rule the earth. See the sub-section below for more details. However, we must always never forget that the text of the Bible is neither genuine nor original. The Bible's books and gospels, according to its own translators and theologians were[b][size=20pt]"[/size][/b] Written by mysterious men. Written by an unknown number of men. Written in unknown places. Written in unknown dates. I saw your attachments! Sincerely speaking, I would not expect such simpletonic replies from a Christian worth the Name! The dude gave his best shot,isnt?1. from 1538-1970 Bible has much been changed! Funny!!! The version preserved through the Vaudois remains untouched in the KJV form! That one dates back to 120AD and these people preserved every jot at the cost of their lives and the KJV agrees thereto. What then?You may need to ask the author of the book. I dont know about the date he thought. What i do know is Bible has much been changed between ascension of Jesus(p) and advent of Muhammad(p). That we know for sure. Further changes and distortion came pretty much later. 2. The one on Matthew 1:18 and Luke 1:26,27 is very nauseating! What? The writer endeavors to use this to establish that Holy Ghost=Gabriel. But why did he omit this:See, i dont think you get it. I can care less whether Ruh-Qudus mentioned by Allah with respect to creation of Jesus refers to Gabriel or another set of Holy Spirit. It doesnt matter. What matters is whether it is Holy Ghost or Angel Gabriel, none of them is God or part of God. They are creations of God. Since Muslims also disagree whether it's Holy Ghost or Gabriel, it is a matter of debate. What we do know for sure and we have no doubt about is that Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit or Gabriel is not God with respect to Jesus. It is a matter of Command. That is, whenever God Almighty desires something to get done He only says to it "Be! and it is" which brought about creation of Jesus and ordinary human for that matter. This is called Creative Power. Looks like at some point, you differentiate Jesus from God, Jesus from Holy Spirit. At another, you merged them which is nothing new. It seems to me that you confused(not only you actually but ALL Christians) ila masha'Allah Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?Oh well, this is Mr Luke's version. I think you are trying to emphasis "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee..." . Luke mere wrote what he heard. He was not a disciple, not even eye witness. Here is Quran version "She (Mary) said, "How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?" He (Gabriel) said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us(Allah). And it is a matter [already] decreed.' So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place." Surah 19:20-22 angel not the same as Holy Ghost!So? Finally, i implore you to desist from blasphemy God unconsciously. The consequences are grave. Quran speaks: “They have certainly disbelieved who say, ‘God is the Messiah, the son of Mary’ while the Messiah has said, ‘O Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord...’” (Quran 5:72) “They have certainly disbelieved who say, ‘God is the third of three.’ (Rather) there is none worthy of worship except One (God). And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. So will they not repent to God and seek His forgiveness? And God is Forgiving and Merciful. The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!” (Quran 5:73-75) “And they say: ‘The Most Merciful (God) has taken (for Himself) a son.’ Assuredly you utter a hideous thing, whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins; That they ascribe unto the Most Merciful a son, when it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Merciful that He should take a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Merciful as a slave.” (Quran 19:88-93) And also: “O People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.’ Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. For God is indeed (the only) One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. And God is sufficient for a guardian.” (Quran 4:171) |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 7:39pm On Feb 21, 2016 |
Scholar8200:So God is omnipotent, omniscience, He has No beginning, No Ending. Thats very correct. How then can you explain how Jesus is God knowing fully well he has the beginning (i:e born from woman's vagina, circumcised, breastfed, grew up like you and I) and according to you, he died; which means that was his end. How does that compared to the former?. Can you reason?. Or you gonna tell me later run that it is just a mystery?. Think uncle, think. The is becoming a case of "sumu bukum umuyun fahum laa yari jiun". i:e deaf, dump and blind, they will not return to the straight Path Q 2:18 And your Bible said something similar "Because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." - Matthew 13:13 Sound familiar? The concept of One being with the Father from the beginning was obviously taken by Heriaclitus around 6BC (not even Philo) and defaced to reflect Gnostics' belief of there being many intermediaries between God and the material world and Gnostics further claim that Logos was the highest of all the intermediaries! This is an obvious theft of Inspiration/Intellectual material from the Hebrews by the Greeks, and prostituting same to reflect one's belief (A skill much used by Gnostics and attempted by the learner who forged the 'gospel of Barnabas' trying to steal the Gospel and weave Islam into it but he failed woefully!)Honestly, it is really irrelevant to me whether it was plagiarized by Philo or not. Born of contention is Jesus is NOT God. God merely breath Jesus's soul in Mary(p) and she conceived Jesus(p). Very simple and straightforward. Whats all that 'he became flesh after he came down and all that?. Does that make sense to you?. Where did Jesus make such allegations? Now let's see the belief in the Father and Son as shown in the OTGood thing you even brought OT into this. I am sure you do not believe David(p) is God?. If so reading the verse you cited, in your opinion, it is mystery because it appears there are Two Lords refernce in the verse. Bible translators did a very bad job. There are other translations of the Bible with lower case for the second person 'lord'. A similar passage can be found in Matthew 22:44 "The Lord said to my lord, "Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet"'? We have a case like this in Quran as well: "And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands,....." {Surah Al-Baqara, 124} ^ read the verse carefully. The first person singular who is conveying this message is Allah(God). Read the way the way the sentence is constructed with the second 'person' Lord with upper letter L. Is that referring to another Creator (of Abraham)? Answer is no. There is nothing mystical about it. The Lord mentioned in this verse refers to Allah. It is like this; when i was a boy and i would do something silly, my mommy would rebuff me and said these words: "If you mommy is saying something you have got to listen" Now, it was only two of us but I mommy mentions another mommy in this sentence. Is she referring to someone else? Answer that, please? Here are other similar verses in the Quran "Behold! his Lord said to him: "Bow (thy will to Me):" He said: "I bow (my will) to the Lord and Cherisher of the Universe." (Surah Al-Baqara, 131) Read this: "And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, "My Lord, show me [Yourself] that I may look at You." [Allah] said, "You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me." But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers." Many more of that in the Quran. Now, the verse you quoted above as reference, according to you there are multiple Lords including David, if David(p) was also in spirit as Bible writers want us to believe, why is he not also God?. I hope I am making sense to you?. I really can not help you further with this. It is no mystery at all. The Bible translators and writers misused upper and lower cases a lot....inappropriately. 2. The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way,Irrelevant....excuse me Once again remember that these were people whose rallying cry was:It is not complicated at all. You need to question Bible translators/writers. Despite them being english speakers, they did bad job. This is Islam: "Hear O Israel, the Lord your God is One Lord!". Thats called "tawheed" in Islam i:e Oneness of God. Very clear and straightforward. Refer to analysis given above. I am not relying on Philo's theory per se. I only brought up his idea to counter your claims. Philo's theory also somehow complicated actually. Indeed, Philo did make good point contrary to your claims that God can be God and man at the same time. But Philo did not consider God similar to heaven, the world, or man; his God existed neither in time nor space and had no human attributes or emotions. He argued that God has no attributes, in consequence no name, and for that reason he cannot be perceived by man. Philo's views @underlined is very similar to Islam. Quran says God Allah is above heavens Allah (swt) says “He is the one who created the heavens and the earth in six days and then made istiwa (rose over) over his throne.” [EMQ Hadid: 4] God does have Attributes that are Majestic. Philo also said he does not compare God to man or His creation. And that God cannot be perceived. This is very true. Qurand and Bible agree with this except that chritians contradict the Bible a lot. Here is Quran: "[He is] Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing." Q 42:11 "LORD, there is no one like you! For you are great, and your name is full of power" Jeremiah 10:6 "Isaiah 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Question: How is Jesus God?. How is he like God? Why did you guys messed up everything in the NT baffles me. Herer again, Quran declares: "There is [size=15pt]no one[/size] to share His dominion, nor does He take an aide or supporter from His creatures. He is nearer to man than man's own jugular vein." Al-Qur'an 50:16 The verse ^ debunks your claim 3 in 1 theory, trashes your man-god theory and so fourth. Now then Why did John retain the Word Logos? Simple. It was known to the Hebrews that Wisdom was the One that Expressed/Revealed the Father:I am glad at underlined. It was John doing his thing NOT Jesus(p), NOT under Jesus supervision. And Jesus spoke Aramaic not Hebrew. Hence, still hold no water. Unless and until you can point out with 100% FACT it was Jesus made the statement in John 1:1, which does not make sense to begin with, this case is dismissed. Even Bible commentary on this passage makes no sense. Besides, the Gnostic Greeks regards matter (eg the flesh) to be intrinsically evil hence the Word being made flesh is in total contradistinction with the Philo/Grecian/Gnostic views!And where are you driving at here?. I support Philo on this one. You believe in the former (theory) which has no Divine basis. This is why the same John, having these Grecio/Gnostic corrupters in mind said:Hold on. I am confused here. What are you saying?. Whats your creed of this verse? Interesting, now read and judge:Can you see this is in conflict with other Bible verses and Quran?. And even it is in conflict with other Bible version. This verse in itself is confusion. Now read these Versions English Standard Version "No one has ever seen God; the only God[b], who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known. [b]International Standard Version "No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him." GOD'S WORD® Translation No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made him known. Young's Literal Translation God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father -- he did declare. The versions are confusing let alone compare them with this Bible verse: "And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form," - John 5:37 Even John 1:18 did not say Jesus see God. It is just another complicated verse like many other Bible verses. |
| Politics › Re: How America Was Lost. by Empiree: 3:31pm On Feb 21, 2016 |
Bernie Sander exposes reality of US politics https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153847183408908&id=131929868907 |
| Islam › Re: The Islamic Dilemma Regarding The Quran And Bible by Empiree: 4:49am On Feb 21, 2016 |
^ In addition to that, you an see in the video that the dude believe in "trinity". If you want to make fun of them in debate, just google "3-headed gods" and click on image and post it to them. Tell them to choose their God, holy ghost and their Jesus. Make fun of them.....you will see they would back down. You just need to get used to various Bibles and study their contents. You will see weird, scary, laughable stuff you can use against them. However, if you come across rational, gentle christian, you dont need to mock but truth must be told even if it sound mockery. |
| Properties › Re: Fences And Gates In Pictures And Prices by Empiree: 12:43am On Feb 21, 2016 |
anyone knows of slide gates (price ranges) and location in southwest? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 4:39pm On Feb 20, 2016*. Modified: 5:11pm On Feb 20, 2016 |
[quote author=Scholar8200 post=43093506][/quote]my mentions doesnt work anytime you quote me. Anyways, will be back here later. Busy now Let me make quick exception here. The list of prophets you provided (where they are now), Jesus may be an exception due to these verse of Quran When he was born: Quran 3:45 Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah…’ When he was raised: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;- — Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158[8] Near mentioned here does not necessarily means he's sitting next to God. Barzakh is just another world of space and time; like Jinns and Angels they live in their world of space and time. Be right here later. |
| Islam › Re: The Islamic Dilemma Regarding The Quran And Bible by Empiree: 12:03am On Feb 20, 2016*. Modified: 4:37am On Feb 21, 2016 |
Such Christians dont need to be debated rationally. If you do that, it will be difficult to deal with them. We deal with such people radically with crazy questions after another. Like you first ask them to pick which Bible or Gospel they want to use for debate. This question alone will take an hour from allotted time If they having hard time choosing one...help them with Gospel like Homosexual Gospel, Skate Gospel, Kids Gospel etc. They would probably choose KJV.......just laugh it out. Then, begin with preface of king James how distorted it is, what their writers said about it etc. This takes another hr off the time. By the time you start real debate, you will make jest of it along. Remember these are people whose heart is hard. They arent ready for you. So dont slack at all. You give it to them. They would have to close the debate like that. Maybe next time they would call their brain to order and dialogue rationally. I do that to fanatic Christians on nl. The would just give up. 1 Like |
| Islam › Re: The Islamic Dilemma Regarding The Quran And Bible by Empiree: 11:07pm On Feb 19, 2016 |
U dey mind him . He's making himself feel better. U can trash everything he said by asking which one of the over 40 different Gospels is he talking about. Let him rejoice in his bs. I cant stop laughing |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 10:24pm On Feb 19, 2016 |
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| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 10:22pm On Feb 19, 2016 |
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| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 9:14pm On Feb 19, 2016*. Modified: 1:59am On Feb 20, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Who is He (referring to omnipotent, omniscience).....God or Jesus? That's because, the Word became FleshYes, i knew it is all about John. This begs the question of plagiarism actually. This prologue is intended to identify Jesus as the eternal Word (Logos) of God. Thus John asserts Jesus' innate superiority over all divine messengers, whether angels or prophets. Here John adapts the doctrine of the Logos, God's creative principle, from Philo, a 1st-century Hellenized Jew. Philo had adopted the term Logos from Greek philosophy, using it in place of the Hebrew concept of Wisdom (sophia) as the intermediary (angel) between the transcendent Creator and the material world. Some scholars argue that the prologue was taken over from an existing hymn and added at a later stage in the gospel's composition. The Jewish philosopher, Philo merged these two themes when he described the Logos as God's creator of and mediator with the material world. The evangelist adapted Philo's description of the Logos, applying it to Jesus, the incarnation of the Logos. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (John 1:1-3)" So we have a very, very serious question here; the author of John, copied the doctrine of logos from Philo; and presented it as "Inspired from God/Word of God"; which many Christians believe. But in fact; the idea of John 1:1-3 existed decades before the Gospel of John existed. And by the way; the doctrine of logos was originally created by a Jew(Philo), not a Christian, so it kinda debunks trinitarian claims. When one copies material and presents it as his own; thats what we call plagiarism; how is plagiarized material considered 'Word Of God' by Christians? A Muslim debater and the author of Muslim Christian Dialogue, by H.M. Baagil argued that John 1:1 is a clear mistranslation of Greek word Theoú i:e God's {indicating possessive noun} was mistranslated as Theós (God). Which means Jesus is a word "Be! and he was" which preceded from Allah. That's Jesus is creation of God. He is not God. Refer to attachment below Father spoke from Heaven after He (Jesus) was baptised. That tells you God was on the Throne all along!This is utterly irrelevant soon as John 1:1 is trashed. I know you are unconsciously blaspheming God. I dont blame you at all. And I am not mocking you. But you really need to stop this dangerous doctrine and ponder carefully. The nearest you will get is where HE confirmed His being with the Father (as John 1:1,2 confirms) from the beginning:I advice you to get free copy or download a free book titled Muslim Christian dialogue by H.M.BAAGIL. http://www.sultan.org/books/muslimchristianialogue.pdf 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.Please refer to the attachment. John 1:1 explained. Okay he grants permission to people to enter paradise? This verily contradicts:We have no problem comprehending this hadith at all. It is Allah who has the Final say. He is the One Who grants paradise. None else. It is He {Allah} alone who gives the Order. It not Jesus not Muhammad(pbut). Jesus made similar statement indicating that he has no power to grant people paradise. Statement like this in the hadith pretext and under the umbrella of intercession granted the Muhammad(p). Nutshell, a Muslim who observes obligatory duties to the best of his ability and do good deeds as much as he can, even if he has minor misdeeds or even bad deeds, prophet Muhammad(p) will still intercede for him/her. If the prophet(p) intercedes for any muslim, it is incumbent on Allah to accept his intercession. He(p) intercedes for a muslim knowing fully well he/she already met requirements. This is my little way i can explain the hadith. I know there are better explanation of it. The intercession of the Prophet is nothing more than Honor that Allah (swt) has given him. He is granted right of intercession as reported in Hadith no: 331: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any amongst the Prophets before me. These are: 1. Allah made me victorious by awe (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey. 2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum. Therefore my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due. 3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me (and was not made so for anyone else). 4. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation exclusively but I have been sent to all mankind. 5. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection.) Which part of the Quran agrees with this hadith being Muhammed's claims? (since that is the measure for accepting and rejecting hadiths).Refer to the above.^ Hear John:Kindly refer to the book i posted earlier Okay. As regards the highlighted, that was said after the Word became flesh and assumed the form of a Servant.I will ask you same question asked in the book i posted. Who is God?. Who is Holy Spirit or Ghost?, Who is Jesus?. You do not need to sweat to answer this. Very simple question. Muslims can answer this question in a simple word. There is NO repentance after death! It's a Divine principle.Okay. I see you used capital NO which means it definitive. How about a christian (he/she does not believe Jesus is God, only believe Jesus is son of God). What happens to such christian? Because, at this point, the Word was flesh and had willingly subjected Himself to the limitations of mortal man!And at the time he became flesh and subjected Himself to the limitations, remember you used capital H for Himself to denote God, The Supreme Being. At that time, i assume He was already on the earth and weak (no offense intended). Who was the authority in the Heavens at that moment He was in flesh and dwelt among humans? You are wrong. It's 3 in 1 not 1 in 1! The use of lower case points to the time of the translation and the need to be faithful to the mss to the details!Even the OT uses he for the Father!Okay 3 in 1. I got it. Now this is even more complicated. So this is "trinity" right?. Father Son and Spirit. Who is Father?, Son, and Spirit?. Are they same thing or different personalities?. Now refer back to quote rightly above this. Since you said they are 3 in 1 which means they move together as supposed. In other word, when the flesh was on earth, whatever that means, it means all 3 were on earth at the same time in flesh, correct? Who was governing the rest of the planet at that point the flesh suffered limitations? Not so fast! This was the basis of their being One in Us:Okay. This is another mixed up twisted and contradictory verse(s). My understanding as well as many muslims understand this is that when Jesus said he is in his father and father is in him and that disciples, 12 of them are in Jesus and father could only mean one thing, purpose. But if you disagree, then you have at least 15 gods. See attachment below. You appear to have forgotten the place quoted: Here is it:Obviously, that statement fits prophet Muhammad wholeheartedly. Muhammad(p) praised Jesus, recognized Jesus, told us story of Jesus from the scratch. So where is rhe holy spirit that brought and testified about Jesus, where is he?. In this translation posted used "comforter" not holy spirit. Who is that comforter? Now compare that statement of Jesus with what Quran claims Jesus said: "And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic." Surah As-saf (61:6) Sounds familiar?. Remember that same passages of the Bible even further to say "comforter" would glorify him(Jesus). I am sure you read in the Quran where Jesus is glorified and his status is higher in the sight of Allah. Then in the hadith there are bunch of stories about Jesus and statements of Muhammad talking and praising him and he being praised by Jesus, too. Good to know that you came up with "comforter". Other translation used helper, advocate, Paraclete etc. So basically, Bible writers played you guys with 'holy spirit'. We believe in what Quran says and thats what Jesus uttered. He(Jesus - p) mentioned Muhammad by name - his other name Ahmad. Ahmad means "highly praised" etc. Sounds familiar?. I have already pointed out the antichrist group as given in the NT. The measure for knowing the truth is clearly given!Keep it simple. Are those Christians who do not believe Jesus is God, who do not believe in trinity any less Christians?. Are they going to hell?. Those people do not consider themselves antichrist. I have them in my friends cycle. they are not occult. They firmly believe Bible support their doctrines. Are those versions right for adjusting that part to suit their opinions or that of their detractors?Yes, it is not about suiting opinion. This is real deal. But it is a matter btw muslims. (We condemn the Greeks for cutting off 1 John 5:7, we disclaim the versions that make grievous changes and we hail thee Vaudois for upholding every jot in the Word at the expense of their lives!)We dont omit any verse from the Quran or add to it. What you said here confirms distortion of the bible. Correct? Again, is there a passage in the Quran that backs up the hadith that said so?The hadith was brought to counter your argument. Scroll up there for clarification So where is Jesus, Abraham, Moses now? Especially Jesus?Barzakh (Purgatory). The Stage Between this World and the Hereafter. Not only prophets but all mankind since the time of Adam until Judgment Day. Technically Barzakh is a realm kept by the Lord of the Universe between this world of ours and the forthcoming Hereafter in such a way that both might maintain their individual limits. Barzakh is a state between these worldly and otherworldly affairs. Halfway between Reward and Punishment After entering the world of Barzakh one does not experience physical pains like headache, toothache and such other troubles. Such suffering forms a part of the essentials of the material world. But there, in Barzakh, it is the realm of abstracts or of incorporeal beings. Of course, it can also not be called the Hereafter, which may mean that there will be only darkness for the sinners and only light for the obedient ones. Some people asked the Imam (a.s.) about the duration of Barzakh. He replied, “It is from the moment of death up to the time when all will rise from their graves regaining life. The Holy Qur’an says: ...and before them is a barrier until the day they are raised. (23:100) I believe the highlighted is a deliberate attempt at mockery especially when a lot has been said regarding this issue namely the Father being distinct from the Son and yet being One. No problem.For saying this?: "Father humbled Himself to be servant and son. And ultimately allowed himself to be nailed?. Fantastic!" Honestly it is no joke at all. Sometimes we just have to be blunt. This is a matter of salvation. If i was mocking you i would posted pictures like i did with ifeann, malvis and co. I know you sound rational. Why would i mock you. Believe it or not, it is blasphemy to say God came down, relegated Himself and became flesh......Nauzubillah. You blaspheme unconsciously. The reason for that is because it is your doctrine in which Christianity stands. Thats why you dont see it like that. But to Muslims this is shirk. A sin that God NEVER forgives. It is the same faith of a group in America called "Nation Of Islam". It is in fact, pseudo pretending to be muslim organisation. They believe God came down in form of Farad Muhammad in Detroit in 1930. This is blasphemy. Before you fight for it the author of this 'gospel' tried to incorporate Islam into one of the Gospels but contradicted Islam. Take a vacation here:No, I am not supporting Gospel of Barnabas. It does not meet Quran standard at all. We only pointed out some facts just like other Gospels. It does not merit Quran at all 1 Like
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| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 3:33pm On Feb 19, 2016 |
Haqq ^ |
| Crime › Re: In Ghana, Man Kills His Mother, Dad And 3 Children (graphic Photos) by Empiree: 2:35pm On Feb 19, 2016 |
Subhanallah!!!. .......Laaa hawla walakuwata ila bilah Inna Lilai Waina ilai rojiun. ... 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Did Jesus Read The Bible? by Empiree: 12:36pm On Feb 19, 2016 |
[quote author=unphilaz post=43060329][/quote]You just like quoting everyone  |
Remember that all these were written milleniums before Heriaclitus!1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 (of 775 pages)