One of the few times that most Roman Catholics agree that a "pope" is speaking "infallibly" is that by which "pope" Pius IX declared the "immaculate conception" of Mary. An encyclical of "pope" Pius X on the matter is given in the link below. (Edited)

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_x/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_02021904_ad-diem-illum-laetissimum_en.html

In that document we read:

"Adam, the father of mankind, looked to Mary crushing the serpent's head ...."



Infallible ko, mumuness ni!

Edited: doesn't really matter.

^^^ But why do Roman Catholics lie like this?

Jerome

"The one foundation which the apostolic architect laid is our Lord Jesus Christ. Upon this stable and firm foundation, which has itself been laid on solid ground, the Church of Christ is built...For the Church was founded upon a rock...upon this rock the Lord established his Church; and the apostle Peter received his name from this rock. "

Per Eusebius of Caesarea

"... as Scripture says: ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it’; and elsewhere: ‘The rock, moreover, was Christ.’ For, as the Apostle indicates with these words: ‘No other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.’ Then, too, after the Savior himself, you may rightly judge the foundations of the Church to be the words of the prophets and apostles, in accordance with the statement of the Apostle: ‘Built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.’"

Still no one has identified which Roman Catholic teachings are infallible.

How many things that Ratzinger said or taught during his time as "pope" were infallible?

Is this statement below of "pope" Boniface VIII infallible?

“We declare, state, define and pronounce that it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman pontiff.”

Which one should a person choose?


Roman Catholic Church

“We declare, state, define and pronounce that it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman pontiff. (‘Pope’ Boniface VIII)

Versus

Jesus Christ

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)
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I don't know about Roman Catholics BUT it is a no-brainer for a Christian!

Anyone can hold on to the interpretation of anyone that they want. That one is their own palaver!

The promise is that each one of us has the Holy Spirit to teach him or her --- and we do not need anyone.

I once expressed in practical terms on another thread https://www.nairaland.com/1229310/infallibility-christian-church-simple-approach#14810792

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Why don't we put Jesus Christ Himself to the test? Anytime, we have questions of faith and/conduct, why don't we start by saying "Holy Spirit, please remind me what Jesus said"!

In fact the best way to do it is by conduct; when we do it by conduct we put both Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit to an even greater challenge! Why, because we expect them to teach us even without us asking expressly!

But how do we do this?

We can do this by adapting and reusing constantly the WWJD ('What would Jesus do'?) into something more biblically accurate!

We constantly ask ourselves: What Did Jesus Say?

That way, we will be putting to the test the promise that the Holy Spirit will remind us what Jesus said/taught.

We may face the challenge "but Jesus did not say anything about xyz topic"! Well, in what he said about Himself and about our responsibility of love to God and to brothers/sisters, we can distill principles to guide our approach to things that were not discussed expressly. Even though we may get things wrong, our starting point should always be "to be conformed to the mind of Jesus".
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Addendum: so we do not need "popes" etc

Ah, Carthage again! And the false claim about Hippo!

A propos Carthage, here is one I made earlier. https://www.nairaland.com/1478018/why-churches-different-doctrines-denominations/23#19111959

So our friends like to claim that they "ratified" Carthage. They hang this on a quotation allegedly included in the acts of Carthage. But that is the very one that experts said (two posts above edit follow link on first line of this post) is probably not original. What is more, our friends have their own way of translating the passage to English as if the Africans were subjecting their canon to the "authority" of Rome. That is:

"However, the sentence "Let this be made known also to our brother and fellow-priest Boniface, or to other bishops of those parts, for the purpose of confirming that Canon" cannot belong to either of these councils."

Meanwhile a late leading Roman Catholic historian (and bishop to boot), i.e. Hefele, admits (in agreement with other experts) that the true translation of the passage is not as the #masterforgers like to claim!

Again, from here http://www.bible-researcher.com/carthage.html

"In connection with this, it has been observed that at least one manuscript indicates that the original wording of the sentence was “De confirmando isto canone transmarina ecclesia consulatur” (“For the confirmation of this canon the church across the sea shall be consulted”). This is the reading adopted by Hefele for his reconstruction of the council of Hippo, and Westcott mentions it in a note. 9 More recent authors tend to present the canon of the third council of Carthage with this emendation."

Again, #masterforgers we salute!

Oh by the way, we of course also have the words of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself!

John 14:26

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

So, we really do not need any "popes" or whatever ---- thank you very much!

According to the apostle John we have the Holy Spirit and do not really need anyone -- whether "pope" or whatever!

1 John 2: 27

As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.

The Roman Catholic Church now says that anyone who does not believe that the book of Maccabees (2 of them) is part of the canon of {their} Bible is anathema.

But this is what a Roman Catholic "pope" said about the very same books!

Per "pope" Gregory I

“With reference to which particular we are not acting irregularly, if from the books, though not Canonical, yet brought out for the edifying of the Church, we bring forward testimony.”

So did "pope" Gregory teach that above "infallibly" or not? If not, then "pope" Gregory I taught his church ---- fallibly!

Oh, and is "pope" Gregory ---- anathema?

Still no one has identified which Roman Catholic teachings are infallible.

How many things that Ratzinger said or taught during his time as "pope" were infallible?

Is this statement below of "pope" Boniface VIII infallible?

“We declare, state, define and pronounce that it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman pontiff.”

Bidam: Nice post bro.Italo should chew on this for a while

To be honest bros, I don't really want to fight these Roman Catholic people (or anyone for that matter). But the conceit, which is even based on fraud and forgeries, had become too much!

Of course they top the rubbish by again swearing for us!

"So, then, if anyone says that the Roman Pontiff has merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the Churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema."

Vatican I is not only one of the most idiotic things, it is even satanic!

Roman Catholics do not believe in Acts 15 or ecumenical councils.

"Since the Roman Pontiff, by the divine right of the apostolic primacy, governs the whole Church, we likewise teach and declare that he is the supreme judge of the faithful [52], and that in all cases which fall under ecclesiastical jurisdiction recourse may be had to his judgment [53]. The sentence of the Apostolic See (than which there is no higher authority) is not subject to revision by anyone, nor may anyone lawfully pass judgment thereupon [54]. And so they stray from the genuine path of truth who maintain that it is lawful to appeal from the judgments of the Roman pontiffs to an ecumenical council as if this were an authority superior to the Roman Pontiff.

That is another of those things technically known as --- utter rubbish.

Mintayo:
True.
We have just one Holy Spirit,Christain shld get close to the word of God and let the Spirit of God lead the,we have so many wolves parading as MOG.
The Holy Spirit inspired the Word of God,He will never say anything contrary to the Word of God,He will never say anything aside what He inspired.
May God help us.

Absolutely! The Bible speaks of one Spirit.

And we say one faith, one Church one Lord.

That Church has Jesus Christ as its one Lord and one Head --- not some "pope".

Meanwhile for all the attempts of Roman Catholic Church to slander Luther etc, its own senior people admit that it was a rotten Church --- in effect that Luther was right. Their "pope" Adrian VI did it; and I can post what he said later. In the meantime, here is what another senior Roman Catholic said:

"Many of the popes were men of the most abandoned lives. Some were magicians (occultists); others were noted for sedition, war, slaughter and profligacy of manners, for avarice and simony. Others were not even members of Christ, but the basest of criminals and enemies of all godliness. Some were children of their father, the Devil; most were men of blood; some were not even priests. Others were heretics. If the pope be a heretic, he is ipso facto no pope." (Bishop Frotheringham)

Before the Arian heresy, others were being kicked out and eliminated. After the Arian heresy, others were kicked out and eliminated. It came to a head with the big one in 1054. Even after that, the Roman Catholic Church was still kicking people out and blowing anathemas.

After Luther, the anathemas went "viral" and ballistic. Read Vatican I and count how many anathemas it contains!

The "church fathers" disagreed on many things; fact! Even Aquinas does not agree with Augustine on some things --- and the Roman Catholic Church has had to choose which of their views to follow,

lol lol

The "church fathers" who did not agree on many things!

The "church fathers" who interpreted Matthew 16:18 quite differently among them?

The "church fathers" who did not see Matthew 16:18 as having anything to do with the "supremacy" of any "pope"?

The Church is one and is still one --- because it is united to its Head i.e. to the Lord Jesus Christ; not to some "pope" and irrespective of denominations.

@ Candour

I'm afraid no email has come through. In fact I saw a message from Nairaland and I replied with my email; did you see that?

Whatever Luther and even Calvin may be accused of, they rightly identified a rot which even leading Roman Catholics including one "pope" Adrian VI admit.

For now, here is one example from a leading Roman Catholic apologist.

"For some years before Luther and Calvin there was in the church almost no religion left." (according to him, because the papacy had almost eliminated Christianity)

per "Cardinal" Bellarmine.

The above post is a misrepresentation of a number of things.

1. Looong before Luther, the Roman Catholic Church had been excommunicating people all over the place. So, it was in fact the "father" that was "disowning the children" all over the place.

2. It was not the mistake of a "few" popes anything. The whole papacy thing had become unbelievably corrupt and a whole lot of "popes" were not only corrupt but much much worse than that!

3. Every Assembly of true believers is the true Church of God; they do not need any "popes". It is because they know their freedom in Christ that they do not need any "popes" that the Roman Catholic Church which wants to enslave them calls them anathema for rejecting the "authority" of the "pope".

4. The Eastern Church does not recognise supremacy even among themselves; what they have always had and recognised is primacy. They have always called all their patriarchs and even bishops "popes" --- so even today they have more than one "pope". It was from them that the Roman Catholics took over the word "pope". They did not and do not recognise the "supremacy" of the Roman Catholic "pope".

5. And the Church of Christ is still one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church; it consists of all Christians of all times and of all places; it does not need any "popes" because Jesus Christ is its Head.

woky: @ Enigma

instead of derailing, why cnt you creat a thread on "papal infallibility"

Try and be truthful for once and stop making false accusations! You asked me a question and I did you a favour by answering - when did that become derailing?

In fact you were the one trying to derail with your 'see what Luther' post!

woky: recommend a church for him.. Simple.!

The discussion has moved on to a serious and better level; try and keep up!

woky: what ar u tryin to say??

Martin Luther identified serious problems with the Roman Catholic Church of his day and its "popes" and bishops. Even though the RCC excommunicated him and tried to kill him, some of them at least recognised that the RCC truly had problems. Adrian VI became "pope" around this time and wanted to do some reforms (he couldn't and he died within 2 years anyway). However, as "pope" he said:

"For many years, abominable things have taken place in the chair of Peter, abuses in spiritual matters, translations of the commandments, so that everything here has been wickedly perverted."


Before he became a "pope" (and afterwards too) he said another interesting thing that I'll post another time: he said the "pope" is not infallible! Yep, a Roman Catholic "pope" said "popes" are not infallible.

Augustine of Hippo quoted from Roman Catholic source: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/160326.htm

"For men who wished to be built upon men, said, "I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas," who is Peter. But others who did not wish to be built upon Peter, but upon the Rock, said, "But I am of Christ." And when the Apostle Paul ascertained that he was chosen, and Christ despised, he said, "Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" And, as not in the name of Paul, so neither in the name of Peter; but in the name of Christ: that Peter might be built upon the Rock, not the Rock upon Peter."

Demain_man:

My brother we are all saying the same thing. Too many holy spirits using too many people.

See, bros: if we are are all genuinely seeking to understand why we have all this mess and we tend to look like a joke to non-Christians, my attitude will be different.

But it is the kind of statement "see what Luther caused" that adds to the problem (even caused it in the first place) and that helps nobody; that is the one I cannot stomach. Meanwhile, you will never hear me say that Luther was perfect either.

Yes, "the Catholic Church" now known as the Eastern Orthodox through people like Athanasius produced a canon list in the 4th century; in fact in AD 367 --- well before anything that the Roman Catholics can claim even fraudulently.

Meanwhile the Roman Catholic Church only set its own canon in 1546 with a dodgy vote and, naturally, an --- anathema! lol

Demain_man:

His own HOLY SPIRIT i guess. Holy Spirit is doing many many things to we Christians

And the Roman Catholic "Holy Spirit" was teaching and making the "popes" do all those insane things that everyone recognised? Even including what the "pope" Adrian VI who was initially charged with cleaning up the mess that Luther identified?

woky: hmmmm talk for another thread

Anywhere you like, no problemo.

Demain_man:

This man don come again with him Catholic teaching and bashing. na wa. Can you recommend a good house of worship for me sir? And no tell me to go look for any bible believing church because all of them claim to be bible believing!

You already have a place; I'm not going to stop you from going there.

Meanwhile, if this is not a Roman Catholic bashing thread - is it a Luther bashing thread?

You Roman Catholics should at least try to be balanced. If one of you can slander Luther why will people not "bash" the Roman Catholic Church.

What made Luther leave the Roman Catholic Church again?

Ubenedictus: @enigma this is neither the time or place for that. Permit of to ignore.

No problem; I'll bear this in mind next time our paths cross.

woky: chai

see wetin martin luther cause

I hope you know that whatever Luther might have done, the Roman Catholic "popes" did ten times or more worse!

In fact they even wanted to murder the same Luther.