₦airaland Forum

Notes on PayvestCarbon

- About the company/product
-- It’s a feature of Carbon a.k.a Paylater. It’s NOT the Payvest owned by Cosmotran.
-- Carbon is not an unknown entity, and that gives PayvestCarbon some credibility.
-- Furthermore, Carbon and PayvestCarbon are products of a company called One Finance & Investments Limited. One Finance is regulated by the Central Bank of Nigeria, as can be confirmed here: https://www.cbn.gov.ng/Out/2020/FPRD/FC311219.pdf
-- However, I can’t see evidence of that registration on a PAGE of CBN’s website itself, as opposed to a PDF file from CBN’s website that was created on 31st, December 2019, as is the case with the PDF above. Why? Have they been deregistered or something? Or just CBN’s clerical error? I can’t see their name in this page’s list of finance/fintech companies in Nigeria https://www.cbn.gov.ng/Supervision/Inst-FC.asp or in this list of fintech companies in Nigeria https://www.cbn.gov.ng/Functions/export.asp?tablename=FinancialInstitutionsFC in this list of ALL financial institutions in Nigeria: https://www.cbn.gov.ng/Functions/export.asp?tablename=FinancialInstitutions
-- They operate in both Nigeria and Kenya.
-- They claim that "This service (Carbon) is provided by One Finance & Investments Ltd (RC. 1044655), a licensed and regulated finance company”.
-- They published their financial report for 2019, which is an impressive thing for a Nigerian company to do: https:///carbon2019report
- Interest rate offered: Interest ranges from 12.5 to 15% per annum. (NB: there’s a 10% withholding tax on the interest.
- Access/Investment channel: Carbon is available on Android, iOS, web and USSD, but PayvestCarbon is only available on the Carbon Android app for now.
- Sustainability: Carbon seems stable and sustainable, having been in business for at least 3-4 years now.
- Key execs:
-- About Carbon: https://getcarbon.co/about/
-- Chijioke Dozie: Co-founder and CEO, https://www.linkedin.com/in/chijiokedozie/
-- Ngozi Dozie: Co-founder, https://www.linkedin.com/in/ngozidozie/
-- Emeka Mordi: COO, was also COO at Spinlet for a year, https://www.linkedin.com/in/epmordi/
-- Kanchan Prandeep: Head, Finance. Works from Fresno, California and ostensibly first worked with Chijioke while they were both at Kaizen Venture Partners in 2008-2013, but he left 8 months before her: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kanchan-bajaj-pradeep-a01a109/
-- The Dozie Brothers seem to have a visible and reputable profile, as seen in:
--- https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommywilliams1/2019/11/12/meet-the-dozie-brothers-two-nigerians-building-a-better-bank-for-africa/#4882a68921e3
---
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7NGf20EpFo
--- https://www.crunchbase.com/person/chijioke-dozie
--- https://www.crunchbase.com/person/ngozi-dozie

- Company FAQ: https://customersuccess.getcarbon.co/portal/en/kb/carbon-nigeria/investment-payvest
- Insurance: No insurance cover of funds but their FAQ here https://customersuccess.getcarbon.co/portal/en/kb/articles/how-is-my-money-protected had this to say:
"As with everything else on the Carbon service, security is guaranteed.PayVest investments are protected and always available for withdrawal, anytime you wish. Your funds are safe as they are managed by One Finance and Investments Limited (RC No: 1044655), which is licensed and regulated by the Central Bank of Nigeria."
- Limitations:
-- You can only have 5 running investments (gotten from their FAQ).
-- You can liquidate your investment at any time but doing so may cost you the accrued interest.
- Summary:

Cons
-- It’s not clear if they’ve been deregistered by CBN or CBN has just forgotten to mention them on the actual pages of their site apart from a PDF file they last updated on 31st December, 2019.
-- The max possible interest is 15-16% per annum subject to a withholding tax of 10% on that interest, giving a take home of 13.5-14.4% per annum, which is rather low- especially in the eye of an investor that’s coming from the agritech sector.
-- PayvestCarbon is only available on Android at the moment.
-- If you liquidate your investment before maturity, it may cost you the accrued interest. In detail, here's what they have to say: (source: https://customersuccess.getcarbon.co/portal/en/kb/articles/will-my-investment-be-affected-if-i-liquidate-my-investment-before-maturity)

Will my investment be affected if I liquidate my investment before maturity?
Your investment will not be affected as you will be paid back your principal investment. However, interest is earned quarterly for Fixed deposits. If you make a withdrawal of an investment before interest has been earned, you will forfeit any interest accrued for your Fixed deposit investment. As such, we recommend holding your investment until maturity to earn your full interest

- There's a 10% withholding tax on all accrued interest on PayvestCarbon. Source: https://customersuccess.getcarbon.co/portal/en/kb/articles/investment

Pros
-- It seems to belong to a stable company that has been running business for a while.
-- The owners are visible online and can be contacted and held accountable if PayvestCarbon has hiccups.
-- One Finance was registered with CBN as a finance company as recently as 31st December, 2019.
-- You can liquidate your investment at any time.
-- This looks like a low-medium risk investment to me. (IMO only treasury bills is low risk, and no investment is no risk investment).
-- Diversification: It's an investment in another industry apart from agri-tech, which helps achieve one of the goals of this thread: diversification.

Fini.

On a separate note, tomorrow I intend to drop some notes I wrote while doing due diligence for PayvestCarbon. I'll look forward to seeing your notes too.

spiceeamiee:
No one is saying a strong social media presence is not importance but hinging the genuineness of a business based off of social media alone is what i have a problem with and they way OP spoke, just seemed to say he did not trust them because they did not have a strong SM presence.

I was the one thag actually made those comments about DIVA rice and that was after i did my due diligence last year and invested even before i knew about agric tech crowd funding.

If a company is seeking to crowdfund investments from people, then, in my opinion, they have to have a decent amount of online and social media presence in order to do so. Then if the business they intend to fund is a physical business, then they can also ask you to come for additional physical proof (e.g an agritech company). Otherwise, online presence is what can serve as proof of viability, proof of operations and an avenue for prospective investors to compare notes. (And if the company is now promising the kind of extraordinary returns that themap is promising, they have to provide extraordinary proof.) So I think it is very valid for most (not all) of us to view with strong skepticism a company like Green Safety or themap that's seeking to raise capital online but is basically invisible online and on social media.

Telsidelake:
Well done @enigmatique for starting this post.

Let's keep the thread going. Agritech has spoiled me. I now see 15.5% per annum schemes as savings with fringe benefits. With the death of treasury bills, we need more options. I also found out about Lendha, Carbon etc on the Agric thread. I am currently using payvestcarbon as a savings platform for money i don't want to touch for a year (15.5%) per annum. For investment i prefer to lean towards schemes that offer attractive returns per month. Even some Agritechs offer that option.


@mummymadeit

I think i will also try map.ng CRM investment. Did you apply on their website? How did you choose the CRM you want to sponsor?

I'm glad to be of help.

MummyIMadeIt:
No problem, the registration seemed easy, with immediate response on registering your investment after payment.


Invoice was dispatched to me after some 9hours of investment.

Its interesting to note that the invoice bears no record of your maturity date just the date of investment.

As stated before, my CRM investment is to be payed monthly but accured weekly cos thats when the Customer Rep Invested on gets paid..


Arms tied and observing.. Good morning all

Yep fingers crossed.

In other news, do y'all remember how I suggested that we take 1-2 weeks to focus on PayvestCarbon and weigh them up? Well I have been doing my own weighing and should be able to share my thoughts by the end of the week. Y'all should share your own findings too. Afterwards I personally intend to move on to Rentcrowdy. Let me know what y'all think.

MummyIMadeIt:
I have volunteered to be the lithmus test for themap.ng..

Roi is been paid monthly for my investment


Hopefully by the end of November will know my stand with them

Perfect. Keep us posted biko.

MrMcJay:
Thanks. I pop in once in a while to read comments and learn.
I have seen The Map bikes in Lagos, still saw one today. However, even if I'm seeing it in my dreams, I'm not really disposed to it.

After what Opay, Gokada and MAX want though, one has to be very careful with bike-based businesses in Lagos as the regulations are becoming very dynamic and the courier terrain becoming more slippery.

Ok thanks. We'll keep watching to see how things will develop.

Mopolchi:
I have search Wealth Ng but can't find the real estate option.

Log into wealth.ng and then go to Dashboard >> Marketplace >> The "Real Estate" tab. Problem, though, is that there doesn't seem to be any real estate options right now. So keep an eye out and if you see any listed later, let us know. Thanks.

Epignosis19:
You said a whole lot. Well tbh, I don't have answers to the red flags you raised. The ones I have, I'll definitely avail. I'm only here to share my experience here first of all as an investor, then additionally as an affiliate for whoever intends to sign up. In as much as my experiences are unique to me, I also make bold to say that not everyone will share my sentiments as not having issues as there are others who have to contact or make calls to get their returns.

If you really want to get some answers, their Senior Managers including the CEO speaks on Rainbowfm, 94.1fm about the investment everyday and they give room for callers to make enquiries between 11 to 12 noon on Fridays. Do well to call in and ask some of those questions.

And just as you said earlier, for any investment being made, endeavor to do a DD so as to avoid stories that touch eventually. Peace!

I hear you. Let me keep staring at all the red flags then.

Epignosis19:
Some of your points are around order and ease of website navigation. Well, while it's true, I don't have answers to how those can be sorted.
As for their operations, I have stated where their offices are. You can go see for yourself to see the bikes and some of the other items investor's funds are used to purchase.
And your point about chasing them to get your returns, I am sure not everyone have to chase them to get returns. Just because some have issues doesn't translate to everyone. Confirm from their Instagram handle about some who get their returns on Sunday evening.
In all, due diligence is the key before money leaves your account as truly, when the money leaves your account, it's no longer yours! Lolz

This response is not even halfway satisfactory. I raised 6 issues and you haven't given a satisfactory answer for any. The best attempt you've made at answering my one of my questions is saying that you see people on Instagram saying they got paid on Sunday. However, the word of a Nairalander like Pepchizy that we know well on the agritech thread carries more weight than those people that are unknown entities. And check out below what Pepchizy had to say before now on themap.

So as I keep saying, all I see are red flags. No opportunity, just gaping traps. Do extraordinary due diligence Nairalanders or, as I would prefer, steer clear of this completely- at least until all the concerns we are having are resolved.

Bcpump:
I am currently engaged in 4 investments with them.
Do they pay? Yes. not on time but within the week.

My experience? They are very very disorganised. You are to track your investments by yourself and follow up with them weekly for your payment else they may forget you. You think their website is wack?? wait till you call them to ask for your investment details. They will tell you they do not know and that investors are to track and know it themselves. This is if you are able to reach them o.

Summary: They are legit but very disorganised. if you know you cannot track your investments and follow them up weekly for your payment via calls messages DMs then don't do o. If you can follow them up then sure you will surely get paid weekly.

Epignosis19:
Yeah I agree with you fully as you'll need to check out every angle of an investment before you put a dime into it, at least to ensure you'll first be able to get your money back at a profit.

If there are red flags or things that are Grey, state those concerns and let's see if it's something that an answer can be provided. I will not support the company if there are things they need to brace up on because I was first an investor before I became n affiliate. The 5% commission I'm paid doesn't cut the investment sum except I'm able to get 20 people to invest which is quite a lot.... Lol

If you check my post above, I also stated positions the company needed improvement in their areas of weakness which is not so encouraging to would be investors.

Cheers Chief

Well I have stated some of them before, but let me restate them here:
1. They are asking for big sums of money per unit, which makes it harder to use a small amount to test the waters.
2. The returns they are promising look way too good to be true.
3. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If themap wants to prove that their promised ROI is indeed sustainable, we'll have to see extraordinary evidence of their operations. And, like MrMcJay said, adverts on BRT buses are not enough. We need actual proof of their operations e.g bike operations.
4. Many Nairalanders have attested to how hard it is to use their website. What serious organisation that collects serious sums of money fails to get their website on point? Even reQuid that sells units of investment for just N5,000 has a solid website. So what is holding themap back from doing the same or even better?
5. People have also attested to how, when your investment matures, you have to be chasing themap with calls and messages before getting paid. That is also a serious concern.
6. Their website isn't organised. Their payment system isn't organised. So how can they be organised enough to be a long-living and stable business?

MrMcJay:
BRT pictures and fancy fliers mean nothing. We need to see pictures of what investors funds are used for.

This is Agbeloba 3.0. Can you please show us pictures from the harvests of Agbeloba 1.0 and 2.0.
In the alternative, show us pictures of the Agbelobaloko farms with the crops on them.

Ah I'm glad that you're finally here MrMcJay to contribute to this convo. From all the angles that I've been looking at it, this themap matter has just been popping red flags in my face. There are quite a number of things that just don't check out, and the fact that this thread has been invaded by their affiliate marketers and advertisers isn't helping at all as these people are making some incredible claims. So please continue with your cross-examination.

To all Nairalanders, I say once more: please exercise caution and do very meticulous due diligence before investing in or continuing to invest in themap.

Bcpump:
I am currently engaged in 4 investments with them.
Do they pay? Yes. not on time but within the week.

My experience? They are very very disorganised. You are to track your investments by yourself and follow up with them weekly for your payment else they may forget you. You think their website is wack?? wait till you call them to ask for your investment details. They will tell you they do not know and that investors are to track and know it themselves. This is if you are able to reach them o.

Summary: They are legit but very disorganised. if you know you cannot track your investments and follow them up weekly for your payment via calls messages DMs then don't do o. If you can follow them up then sure you will surely get paid weekly.

All these things that I am hearing is just telling me that "egungun, be careful". If a company is so disorganized that it can't do proper bookkeeping and tracking of people's investments, if they have to be chased up and down before they pay me, and if, even while they are "paying" it's not so easy to contact them, then it's all a ticking timebomb in my opinion. I personally won't be looking at investing with them any further. That's me though. Everyone else can do as they see fit. Thanks.

Also, an initial look at Pettysave shows that most of their investment offerings are agritech opportunities with a few real estate openings here and there. That doesn't help my aim of diversification all that much. But hey if they're legit and run sustainable investments, that's another solid firm to add to the agritech list maintained for Nairalanders by MummyIMadeIt.

Pepchizy:
Apart from farm investments, I also invest in real estate through pettysave. They had one that went for 20% in 6 months. Presently, the one on ground is 18% for 7 months. I also invest with themap. They pay 15k weekly for 6 months for an investment of 180k

Ok. We should all start looking into those two as well then. Pettysave and themap.ng. For now, I'm still examining PayvestCarbon. I'll move to either TRJ, Aella or Rentcrowdy next. So y'all should share what you find about those two.

UPDATE
Actually my initial, cursory look at themap.ng is not encouraging at all as they are:
1. Asking for big sums of money per unit.
2. The returns they are promising looks way too good to be true.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If themap wants to prove that their promised ROI is indeed sustainable, I'll have to see extraordinary evidence of their operations. That's my prima facie assessment.

Bcpump:
What do you do? Sell drugs?

Nwannem help me ask am oo.

IllRatherNotSay:
One Finance (Carbon app) is not the parent company of Payvest Global (Covest app), Cosmotran Global is. Carbon app however has Payvest as a feature and not as a subsidiary.

Emmaesty:
I just discovered that we are talking about 2 different platforms.

This payvest is not backed up by Carbon but Cosmotran global which makes it look less credible

Thank you both for pointing that out. Since their names are so similar, I think we need to start calling them using modified names so that we won't be confusing them anymore. I propose PayvestCarbon and and PayvestCosmotran.

Emmaesty:
I just downloaded the payvest app and I have a lot of concerns and reservations.

Their ROI on investment is too HIGH. There is an ongoing investment of 100% ROI in 12 months. There is also a savings plan of 6% interest per MONTH.

This doesnt sit well with me at all

In fact, I suggest we do it like this: let's make this a group effort. I suggest that we pick one company every 1-2 weeks and investigate, cross-examine and fact-find them for those two weeks. And since you've started looking into them, let's put Payvest on the spot first.

Now, a cursory search for "payvest" on Google turned up the following article from Techpoint as the top result:
https://techpoint.africa/2020/07/16/payvest-launches-new-investment-mobile-app-in-nigeria/


And the article backs up what you reported: Payvest does offer some almost incredible ROI. That's already a concern. But then the article goes on to say:

Finally, Payvest prides itself on being the most secure provider of savings and investment opportunities in Port Harcourt and Nigeria. It keeps your money safe as all its projects are duly insured by AXA Mansard and Leadway Insurance.


So that's one thing to investigate. Let's reach out to AXA Mansard and Leadway and hear what they say.

Another thing is let's look into how healthy and prosperous are the operations of the parent company i.e Carbon (formerly known as Paylater).

If you and others agree with me, you can add more things to dig into.

Emmaesty:
I just downloaded the payvest app and I have a lot of concerns and reservations.

Their ROI on investment is too HIGH. There is an ongoing investment of 100% ROI in 12 months. There is also a savings plan of 6% interest per MONTH.

This doesnt sit well with me at all

Yes those ROIs look too good to me too. But like MummyIMadeIt said on the agritech thread, low ROI is also not a sign of being legit or reliable either. So since Carbon (formerly known as Paylater) is the parent company of Payvest and Carbon is not an unknown quantity AFAIK, I think what you/we should do next is to make deeper inquiries e.g by sending them an inquiry mail. Let me know what you think or eventually do.

Dadeo:
onesqm.ng
It is a real estate investment platform. It currently has some ongoing projects with 19% ROI

Thanks for sharing. I'll definitely take a long, hard look at these guys too.

Phylife:
Am dumbfounded at the weird supposed company's names without portfolios one is seeing on this thread. Red flag everywhere!!!

I can only take the back seat for as long as I want.

Happy investment guys!

Lol. Thing is I actually first heard about most of these companies from the post below on the agritech thread. But hey please do take a back seat. None of us are in a rush to dive in either- at least I'm not

Asinnerman:
Talking about agritech, i don’t know about your own list o, but base on observations and informations

Farmcrowdy (I have seen and bought their produce, I also know people who have)
ThriveAgric (they do supply chicken republic chicken)
Agropartnership (They have a processing plant, and doesn’t shout)
Bazuze (I have seen the rice in the market, unexpectedly and I have bought from them)
Agrolet (though the ceo is doing like the ceo of farmcrowdy now, still shaking)


I think we should look more into those with products that are not perishable or dicey.

Also, diversify your portfolio o, there are some lenders you can invest in like Carbon, Aella, TRJ, Lendha for better returns like the agritech

Emmaesty:
Lending firms are high risk investment opportunities..... 26% is not attractive considering the risk involved.

Yes 26% is not very mouth-watering, especially since we are coming from the agritech space. But as to whether they are high-risk investments, well, I'd say it will depend on what we find out about each company. None of them will probably be low-risk, but some should at least be medium risk.