₦airaland Forum

Are they blaming Modric today?

Color me surprised.

DeeMain:
What am I reading on this thread?

Guys don't turn on KD now o. Don't throw him under the bus, abeg.

Keep the same Voltron energy you've been using prior to defend him at all cost na. Consistency is a virtue. Hahahaha.

That was directed at Kyrie but keep entertaining a few people who cannot read.

The Warriors will be fine. We don't want the NBA to ref rubbish come playoff time because many will be shocked at GSWs regular season.

I am ashamed of Unai Emery.

Ole is out-coaching him.

Crying shame.

Roland17:
I have told you that you are cluthing on straws and it has become even more evident because of your passive-aggressive comments. First and more importantly, let me reiterate as I have done with many on this forum in the past. I don't engage anyone here or outside here for that matter in debates to flatter or win subjective interpretation(s) of what is intelligent or what is not. Also, the sooner you stop generalizing about how others feel about Pep and focus on my thoughts and comments, the better for you. Please show me where I said Pep has signed for Juventus, I am waiting patiently. My argument about Sane missing the World Cup was because he was dropped by Pep severally and Low acknowledged this as having played a role in is the decision to drop Sane.

Ofcourse this is not true.

So, I am guessing Txiki and Soriano are now the anointed custodians of Barcelona's philosophy, culture, values, and ideologies? This is the funniest stuff I have read bro. So, unless Pep carries those minions, he can not be said to be working on his philosophy? When Pep leaves City, we should expect the 'Custodians" to also follow him since without them he is not said to be playing his philosophy

Sorry but this makes no sense. I only brought up Txiki and Soriano to show the length City went to lure Pep. That is all. The same Pep has said repeatedly that he was not signed to win the UCL. But to play his way and to bring a winning culture to City.

Any team looking to hire Pep must also make space for Txiki and Soriano else failure is excusable? This has to be a joke for real. Why would Bayern not come up? After all, we are speaking of Pep and his core values which according to you transcends his tenure.

Bayern does not come up because going there was a detour.

City has not signed everyone Pep wanted, does that mean his failures can be excused because of that? I reckon he wanted Alexis Sanchez and many others but he did not everyone he wanted, did he make excuses? Since na point and kill market.

What does this even mean? What failures are we talking about and what does this even have to do with the subject matter? Besides, there is a difference between Pep pulling the plug on Alexis and City saying they won't go for him. He clearly holds more sway than he did in Barca when Rosell came and in Bayern.

In comparison to the Barca farm system, how many City youth products have gone on to be better than S. Ireland, Onuoha or even D. Boyata? Again the magic words are "in comparison to Barcelona". This argument has become bitter for you and it is only a matter of time before you degenerate into name-calling which I abhor not because I judge people who indulge but because it is not my style and I don't have to conform.

I don't know what this means or how it relates. None of these players will feature in this current team so what does it have to do with anything?

Roland17:
You see, cultural appropriation is useless without assimilation and that is what you have failed to understand. Assimilation ensures the cultural element that is being adopted transitions past generations and becomes the identity of the people.

What is useless is comparing apples to oranges. I just pointed out how Valverde and Bartomeu have not followed the catalan philosophy, play style or recruitment policy. I thought Barcelona was the model you were pointing City to. Your argument has fallen like a pack of cards.

the last time I checked Pep also coached Bayern Munich? I guess the hierarchy continued Pep's philosophy after he left and they hired Ancelotti? I guess Pep's ideology and philosophy changed the decade-old cultures of the Bavarian nation? Please tell me he did. Pep must have told them to hire Ancelotti, Sagnol, and triple O.G Heynckes or the now much-maligned N. Kovac.

This is called creating another narrative to hide yourself in the previous hollow arguments you had made before that have been soundly disproved. If that were not the case, I wonder why you are asking me about Bayern. Abi did anybody in Bayern hire Txiki and Soriano? Did they model their recruitment policy to suit Pep? Did they sign Sane, KdB and Neymar that Pep told them to go all out for?

The last I checked Pep also had a preference for whom Bayern should hire after he left, did they? absolutely not! Bayern moved on from Pep so will City. Pep leaves City and I can assure you nothing transitions afterward because there are no binding principles to the culture.

Sad for those who watch global politics, they should have known that Pep did not have the same influence in Bayern like he did in his first 3 years in Barca. Why do you think he left Barca about the same season Sandro Rosell became Barca president?

The same City hierarchy that set up their system to fit Pep will redact their system to suit another coach of their preference when he leaves and that includes the youth system. Pep's ideology can only be binding while he is there, it holds no sway after he departs because it is in contrast to what the owners or the fans believe in.

Thrash. It is the same you people who said City lost their way under Pellegrini because he realized he had no control anymore and that some of the latter signings City made during his last season like Raheem, KdB etc were in readiness for Pep. I wonder what part of "City owners decided to adopt Barca's system the very same way Barca adopted Cryuff's system" don't you understand?

Oh stop with the snide remarks, they make your argument less valuable. Your comment about City always having youth players is hilarious and blasphemous especially when we are comparing City and Barcelona youth systems. Brahim Diaz and J. Sancho? We don leave Foden ba?

I am almost tempted to question your understanding of context. Having a youth system was never City's issue. It was having one where the type of players being recruited and developed were those who matched the manager's style. United did not do that for Mourinho. That privilege does not belong to every coach because every coach is hired for different reasons. Those players I listed are of the mold that Pep looks out for. Maybe you should update yourself on the conversations Pep said he had with Khaldoon about the youth players City were recruiting and how they are the stock that he would absolutely love.

Those guys have nothing on the likes of Nedum Onuoha, and S. Ireland who transitioned from the youth system to play regular football for City's senior team and fringe appearances for their national teams.

Roland17 made this point? I cannot believe my eyes. This means nothing to all I have been saying. Who will these players replace in the present squad? That is why I told you that having youth players transition into starters is senseless and not neccesarily a model, if they are not good enough to compete either now and in future with the starters who are winning 100 and 98 points. That is the same model Barca employs. Messi broke in because..he is Messi. Jeffren and Delofeu etc had to go elsewhere.

This was before Arab money and Pep and we are here talking about a Diaz that can not even make Madrid's bench and Foden who is going to disappear in a few years from now. Jadon is not originally a City product, he started out at Watford and for what it is worth and for the sake of argument I will speak about him being a City product but did he feature for them?

It feels like you just feel like typing for the sake of it. What does this even mean or have to do with anything? Foden will disappear where? You know this how? The same way you knew Pep signed with Juventus? The same way you were sure Sane was left out of the national team because of Pep? The same way you argued Bayern sacked Pep? I can't take anything you know. Sorry.

He left City for a reason after less than 2 years to join BVB after failing to break into the first team.

So if you know this, why are you asking me about what youth player features prominently in the first team? Apart from Messi (who is Messi) and Busquets which other Barca player did so? That is because it is not enough to just be a youth player, you also have to be good enough to break into the first team- something Pep believes Foden has the potential to achieve and is also the reason David Silva is moving on come season end.

Let me also tell you that Jadon joined BVB's youth system so can we say he was really City's product? You are losing ground and clutching on straws with this argument. There is no basis for comparison here bro and there is nothing wrong in leaving it alone.

If someone else knows what this information means and how it relates to Van Bronkhorst or Arteta or City's newfound philosophy under Pep they should please help me out.

Roland17:
I have been following football for too long to give you an ear about the players who left Barcelona and were resigned at different times because that is not the onus of that idea. The idea behind that line is the fact that they came from the farm house and went on to do great things. The Catalonia issue is not restricted to Barcelona fans anyone who follows global politics religiously knows this very well so your fandom does not give you any edge in those aspects.

If you knew those players left and someone else re-signed them, that in itself proves that La Masia is not a vaunted value-system as you would have us believe. It depends on who is at the helm of affairs. Pep and Laporte believed in it, which is why it was followed. Enrique and Valverde like Bartomeu, did not and during their reigns, it was not followed.

I listed 9 players and you added Arteta to the mix, that is a total of 10 players and we are comparing those to a Foden? A player who at best is still a fringe player who barely sweats during match days because he does not play games. Since Pep’s arrival Foden is the only player you can lay claim to? This buttresses my point about the contrast between both teams.

There was Brahim Diaz, Jordan Sancho...City have always had academy players. It is one thing to have them and another thing for those academy players to be better than what you have. Unlike previous City managers, the academy in City are now implementing Pep's philosophy of playing and recruiting, that is a model that did not exist before and was adopted from Barcelona.

In your previous post you talked about cultural appropriation and I ask, cultural appropriation while he is there? What happens afterwards? Is Pep and his crew the originator of the Barcelona philosophy? The ideology was existing decades before him and continues even after him. The ideology is rooted in the people of the city. The hierarchy understand this and have to find ways to keep the core values of the club so as to maintain the history with the people who follow the team.

The value system still started from one person abi? That person passed it unto the next and the next till it fell to Pep. He could have discarded the system or imbibed. He chose the latter. It is that same model he is bringing to City. And he is not bringing it willy-nilly. It was the very reason he was hired. Which is why the club has valued his opinion on recruitment and will value his opinion on his replacement. Besides, everyone can easily tell that Barca have strayed from both the playing style and recruitment policy that pre-existed Pep. People who follow global politics will know today that there is a war between the ultra-catalans and mere-catalans because the ultras believe Bartomeu is introducing a new value system.

When one white person tries cultural appropriation by having dreadlocks does that mean the future of the Caucasian race will now have black hair and dreadlocks? When 2 caucasians have intercourse should they be expecting a black baby? Absolutely not because while it can be transferred by one person, it is only temporal because it is hinged on the person and that is the same thing with Pep and City.

Which is why his input is going to be sought after. The very City hierarchy said they set-up their whole structure just to get him. Unlike some people who said he came here because of money for signings. Some of those people will later claim they follow global politics.

Pep bringing his crew and the Barcelona ideology has no bearing because it is not the City’s culture. Both teams are totally different in their history and Pep can not change it. When Pep leaves, would another coach continue with his ideology or will the new coach come with his own philosophy? Can we argue conclusively that City fans identify with Pep’s style as the culture of the club now?

You seem to be convoluting things. Just like Cryuff introduced a style of play, philosophy of recruiting players and culture of the whole football structure etc in Barca, that is the same way Pep was hired to do the same in City. Cryuff is not catalonian by any stretch of the imagination. He only modified the total football philosophy of the dutch national team and implemented it in Barca. Till Cryuff's death, his opinion was still sought after in Barca and he was part of the reason Pep and not Mou was hired.

1000% City identify with Pep's style. From the grassroot football team to even the board. Not a soul will be hired if they are contrary to his philosophy.

I am crying more than the bereaved but in the same paragraph everyone cried blue murder. Sane had his best season stat wise yet those who thought he deserved a spot in the squad know nothing? Sane’s situation is past now, I am more concerned about his future post recovery from this injury.

Everyone wondered why Sane was not in the roster for the world cup. They slated Loew for it. You are the one who erroneously claimed it was because of Pep that Sane did not make the squad and went on to have misplaced grievances. In other words, crying more than the bereaved in this context is you attributing your dislike for Pep on Sane when the very player himself does not share the same notion with you.

Roland17:
What do Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Pique, Valdes, Busquets, Puyol, Guardiola, Fabregas have in common? They are all products of the farm house, the La Masia which is a core value of Barcelona. These guys played integral roles during different eras to keep Barcelona at the top of European club football.

The city of Barcelona is the spiritual home of Catalonia and it is buttressed in the flag of the team, arm band and other paraphernalia. Those are examples of history and core values that can not be acquired or transferred. Those are what defines a team, team identity or organizational identity and culture. When fans of Barcelona say the bleed Catalonia and are called Catalans it is because it because the values were there before they were born and will remain after they leave the earth. You don’t appropriate those, you don’t acquire those, you can’t replicate that. Those are the foundations upon which Barcelona exists. Not the trophies, money or players.

Can the same be said of City? Name one player from City’s academy that is a prominent first team player since Arab money. City’s model after Arab money, before and after Pep and his crew from Barcelona has been the same and that is to build a world class team by buying the best players in the market. It will not change after Pep and his crew leaves, as long as Arab money is there. So stop comparing the Barcelona model to City’s model because there is a stark contrast.

If Arab money departs City is there any assurance that any of those players will remain at City? Or will City become the new Malaga?

I have never hated on Pep’s success in England, one of my biggest grievance with him and Dayo and others can tell you is the way he has handled my boy Sane and that is why I call him the bald bi-polar. I am very careful debating his success because it can be argued both sides so I stay away.

Arteta as well. He is a la masia product.

How long did La masia exist and when last did Barcelona promote players from there who have gone on to be fixtures in the senior team? Besides, no team just aimlessly promotes graduates from a youth academy. You compare them to what you currently have and make projections based on that. Something that is becoming a model with current City.

Also, between Football club Barcelona and entity called Catalonia which came first? I am sure you also know that the original design of the team was to have only players from that region representing the team? How much of that model or philosophy is still in existence today? The take-home point in this is, some people decided to make catalan values a signature of the football club and another group of people can decide to adopt some of those values to Manchester City. After all, people's values cross-match themselves.

You say Barca fans are Catalans because they have had those values before they were born. That is 50% of the truth. The other 50% is due to the fact that the ownership still perpetuate those same values. If ownership changes, so will the values. It is the reason present day Barca is dominated by almost a galaticos-like model which was frowned upon years before. We can effectively say Barcelona today has acquired the win-at-all-cost mentality that did not exist according to Catalan values. This is an aside from the fact that the club has become more profit-oriented (putting a sponsor on the shirt) when the original values that started the club forbade such in it's tenet.

I know you don't know much about the club I support so I will let you in on a little info before answering your question. Pique was sold to United. Pep re-signed him. Fabregas was sold. Pep re-signed him. Xavi was on his way out to Bayern. Pep made him stay back. Even Carlos Puyol was to be sold twice to Malaga and United. It was not any value system that made him stay back except for either money or that he was better than what Barca had. So you can spare us of this narrative about players from the academy and Phil Foden is a perfect example of a talent who City hope to make a poster child of their academy. But he is going to have be better than the current midfielders to break into the first team prominently. Something Lionel Messi had to experience himself.

The argument about Arab money or not is moot. Barca where in a crisis in 2003 and still went to acquire Ronaldinho (a non-academy player) to save the club. The same way United leaned on non-academy players like Ferdinand, Vidic, CR7 and Rooney to perpetuate the success of the 92-academy players they had. Models, values, philosophies are very much acquired.

As per Sané, you are simply crying more than the bereaved. I read somewhere when you said he did not make the world cup squad because Pep was benching him and I laughed myself to sleep. Because the only reason everyone cried blue murder at Sané's non-inclusion in the national team, was because of the form he had developed playing for Pep in the 17/18 season where he had double-digit goals and assists. For context, that World cup was in June of 2018 after City had won the league and Carabao cup. Sané's best season as a footballer till date.

Kimbeast:
His Feyenord team brought me to that conclusion.

Fair enough.

Obere4u:
But hazard is outscoring him.. So balance equation

But if they bring Neymar ourscoring Hazard same you will refute it and say Hazard does not care about scoring.

Obere4u:
My argument isn't about Hazard.. My argument still remains

Is Bas Dost a useless striker?

It is furtively about Hazard.

It is - KdBs assist numbers are great because he has played with better strikers than Hazard has had to deal with.

That is essentially what you are saying.

So Spillo brought up Wolfsburg to refute that argument and all of a sudden, Bas Dost is the best thing since sliced bread.

Obere4u:
Lol... Make we finish one na..

Bar Costa and somehow Ba.. Others have passed their prime before Hazard played with them.

Facepalm.

Kimbeast:
Van Bronkhorst is dutch, so he's aware of Cryuff philosophy. He has a good profile like that of Guardiola except that he hasn't managed big teams.

So anyone that is Dutch is aware of Cryuff's philosophy?

Roland17:
Core philosophies of any team is not built on hiring and firing, they are natural and ingrown cultures within an organization hinged in the history, mission, vision and values upon which the organization was founded. It remains consistent irrespective of who comes or leaves the organization, consequently hiring Pep, Txiki, and Soriano has no consequence and can not replicate the Barcelona model because you don’t buy models/ organizational cultures.

More so, the Van Bronkhorst situation is not a rumor, you may want to update yourself on the situation. He has signed with City on an unknown capacity and has been given all access to City’s organization, including the dressing room. He gave up his planned 1 year sabbatical to sign with City after stepping down from Feyenoord. Now, does that mean he is now the substantive coach or has any coaching role? Absolutely not but it does provide a bite to the rumors.

Pep can have his preference but City have no compulsion to stick or follow his preference because they are operating on a totally different ideology.

So these core philosophies, cultures, values could not have started in 2010 with the emergence of the new ownership? I am sure you have heard or read about acquired culture or culture appropriation. I hope you know too that the philosophies of the clubs you posited as examples were acquired as well.

Is Van Bronkhorst occupying any position and status that Viera did not at some point in time? I ask because he was touted to replace Mancini and later Pellegrini but he is nowhere to be found now.

So you don't know Van's position in City, you know Arteta's but somehow Van's own has more bite than Arteta's because "the bipolar baldy" is involved?

I actually thought Pep held sway in City and did what he liked but you have brought another dimension to things. I hope to use this post some time in the future when he wins again and the argument will be because he got everything he wanted.

Swissh:
Eruditor. This was what I told donjazet some time back either him or thorrvik ha be greatihex said injury was not an excuse.

I doubt donjazet will say something like that. The other two people, it is within the ambit of their reasoning so it is possible.

raumdeuter:
The Chelsea model that saw them miss the CL should be adopted by a coach who won 3 CL. Hazard fans are very special. They will still blame the Bernabeu crowd

It is preposterous.

Swissh:
Eruditor. This was what I told donjazet some time back either him or thorrvik ja be greatihex said injury was not an excuse.

Kinda surprised as donjazet is usually reasonable.

Swissh:
Chelseafan1 It's been 9hrs 32mins. We are still waiting

People here said Hazard being unfit is his excuse.

Same people slandered Neymar who was out of football for months before the world cup.

spillo1:
Bas dost is better than morata and higuain and all the useless strikers hazard has played with. He is Soo good he has not played for any top teams.

EOD.

You have time.

Some arguments are not worth it.

I knew it the very moment I saw people here blaming Zidane for Hazard's early failures.

Zidane all of a sudden should use Chelsea's model for a Hazard that could not lead the team to 3 UCL titles. I wonder how that same model will now help RM win anything?

Roland17:
I am not sure Barcelona’s philosophies compare to City’s. One is a team with core traditional values, from ownership to the city it represents, the other barely has any traditional values and can not be said to own the city of Manchester. Pep will have a say/ input, I mean, he has made it clear that his preference is Arteta but that is not binding with City because they have structured differently when compared to Barcelona or even Bayern.

But the Van Bronkhorst rumour is binding on City or am I missing something?

Just based on common sense, which is most likely to be believed? The rumour or the one that emanated from the mouth of Pep himself?

BTW, Soriano and Txiki were hired by City to emulate the Barcelona model. It is the same reason they went on to hire the same manager who typified those philosophies and values you make reference to and he is evidently delivering on the mandate.

raumdeuter:
There were some posters who even abused him for taking the Juventus job

It is a ploy to cast doubts in potential signings. If you create a rumor that the manager you want to work with is leaving, you can distract players from signing.

raumdeuter:
You remember the reports that were certain he was signing for Juventus some months back

Lets wait and see what happens though

The horse himself had said had will honor his contract with City for as long as they will have him.

Even in the event that he leaves, he is already on record saying Arteta will succeed him. Same thing that happened with Tito Vilanova when Pep left Barca.

Roland17:
Again these are rumors which I believe you have also read. In the instance he leaves this season, I doubt he would switch to another club immediately. I expect another sabbatical before going back to coaching. More so, I have a feeling it would be with a national team and not a club? Also, his wife has moved back to Spain which may also support the rumors.

2 of his kids stayed back in England with him.

His wife had businesses in Spain which she was running from a distance but wanted to manage them a lot closer. That was the reason she gave for moving back.

raumdeuter:
Then I think he will stay till 2021 unless Barcelona come hard for him

The same way he had signed a contract with Juventus last season. LOL

raumdeuter:
I am reading a Real Madrid forum somewhere and if you see as dem dey curse Hazard.

Read through and see what they are saying about Hazard

http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/atletico-madrid-vs-real-madrid-la-liga-jornada-7-28-09-2019-21-00-cet.2106590/page-3

He is even worse in this half.

Zidane is only keeping him on because he signed him.

karkinase:
The first half was just there...like balanced. Hazard needs to be more deadly with the ball. He holds the ball and allows the Atleti players regain energy. Not a bad half just the players need to be more clinical and sharp on goal

It is not balanced. RM have the ball slightly longer but not in dangerous areas. Just that Kroos shot went really close and even at that, it was off target marginally.

Yes, Hazard is holding on to the ball a tad too long and allowing ATM rearrange themselves. He is lacking confidence.

hulk616:
Atletico dominant

They are getting into dangerous areas.

They have never been a possession-heavy team so don't let that surprise you.

This game is so boring and Atletico are dominant.

Hazard has been poor. Slow on the ball and in making decisions.

Something feels off about RM. I think this game should be played "not to lose".

SmooshCHN:
KD sha. You left OKC and the Warriors, got all you wanted but the story is how OKC was fake and how the Warriors never welcomed you. And now Irving is chapping nonsense. I wish those two good luck but na suffering las las.

Lol. I saw the video. The guy makes me laugh. He should just remember that KD called Mark Cuban and idiot for Russell Westbrook and then left him that very season.

They should enjoy themselves. They are fit for themselves. Kyrie is the alpha dog in the relationship.

Real Madrid had one of their worst seasons in years and 3 of their players (from that season) make the squad. LOL

No Man City player.

Barca that whitewashed RM all season and got to the UCL semis - only Messi.

But a team that won fvckall. Had shambolic after shambolic performances. Got beat by Ajax in the 2nd round.

Had 3 players. LOL.

And I am supposed to take that list seriously.

Give Emery a squad like Arsenal see what he will do to teams like Aston Villa at home.

This game feels like a draw.