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coogar: don't be confused - de gea is currently the best goalie in the premier league. hart and cech have regressed badly since last season or de gea has caught up and overtaken them(you can choose which one suits you). last season, he was raw and he knew not how to deal with the physicality of the premier league - that has changed now. if you can see the gif i am posting, your own comments would embarrass you!



man utd is a big squad - rotation is the key. so nani is not as good as downing because nani is always rotated? what kind of argument is this for crying out loud. i am sure you would even argue arouna kone is better than chicharito cos kone does not get rotated. this is why many of us here are questioning your claim that you have been supporting united for long.

I concur with you on the highlighted comment. These are another statistics to support that. These are facts.

elampiro: Your table is showing De Gea is distant 3rd. Some abbreviations have not been explained. What is av-sc, and av-ah? A link will enable us to interpret it better.
I gave you professional sports analysis by some world best media. Didn't you see source there? Where is your source for your table?

That is it. For posting this again, i do not believe you are a Man United fan. No basis for any further discussion on this issue.

elampiro: Now someone has even said De Gea was the best last season. Now I know there is no need to continuing arguing.

If he was so good, Lindegaard wouln't have had so many games. Even this season, SAF said he was rotating his two keepers to see who would adapt better. I doubt if that has ever happened in United or else where.

I can see that you don't read very well. You don't pay good attention to what you read. You said he cost United the league last season and i told you that i do not agree with your judgement on that. I brought out a statistic link "Saves Percentage" to show to you that he even made it possible for to seriously compete for the League title with City. If not for his saves City would have won the league by miles instead of by goals difference. That doesn't mean he was the overall best keeper but the best in Saves Percentage.

elampiro: Give us link to the table above to also allow us have a personal view and judgment. What does AV stand for? What about the 'r' in red?

Secondly, are you saying De Gea did better than Cecz last season? Also Hart? That statistics must be crazy.

Cecz that won the UCL and FA cup. Did you see his matches against Bayern and Barca? Just remove last season from this argument.

You amuse me a lot. I can't just understand your point. Saying that because Chelsea won the champions league and the FA cup, that makes their Goalkeeper the best goalkeeper. This is funny. You can as well say those recent years that Barcelona won the Champions League and other trophies, Victor Valdez was better than Iker Casillas. You analogy is not right. You are disputing statistics that was compiled by unbiased professionals. Why not do your own research and come out with your own statistics and let's see what you'll come out with.

You that disputed the facts you saw in a link i posted. What will now make you believe the one you are requesting me to post. I can see that you don't believe in statistics so there is no point posting it.

elampiro: The articles I put up there corroborated my argument that:

De Gea has more than one grievous mistakes this season. Fulham, Liverpool, Totteham.

The articles showed De Gea has not been confident with aerial balls/crosses.

The articles suggested prior to the Madrid game, De Gea had not considered to have settled.

I made mention earlier too that SAF was alternating the two keepers until January because of both keepers inconsistencies.

No one will bench Cecz or Hart in their clubs or even if they were to sign for United.

I haven't said De Gea won't be great, he will be great. However, my mind shakes whenever the ball flies into our box.

You should always make efforts to back whatever you are saying with facts and not what some biased British journalists wrote sitting down at the comfort of their bedrooms.

elampiro: No go back to the table, you will see this has been prorated (averaged) so the table is correct as it is. Please you guys should also put link to enable us understand further details. I can see Cech and Hart at number 28 while De Gea is 55.

The 28 you saw is his position considering other players in the league irrespective of the position they play for their respective teams. That is including Midfielders, Defenders, Strikers and the Goalkeepers. I only brought out that of goalkeepers because of it's relevance to what is being discussed here.

Removed

elampiro: @Fabville, if other guys have said pt like this from beginning, there wouldn't have been any reason for arguments.

You have admitted he is learning and has potentials. That has been my point.

You have shown that Cech and Hart are better. That has been my point.

You have shown that he is now improving recently. That has been my point.

You have to also consider his appearances to the other two this season. Probably, if had had the same number of app. he may have been on the same level with them or above them.

I do not agree with you that he costs us the league last season. With all his mistakes last season David De Gea still has the best percentage saves in the EPL.
Also see this and visit this link http://soccer.indonewyork.com/best-premier-league-goalkeepers-ranking-2011/ to see that. The so-called Petr Czech was 15th.

elampiro: Manchester United manager Alex Ferguson must decide whether to axe David de Gea after latest mistake



Costly mistake: David de Gea fails to punch with any conviction

Picture: PA

By Alan Hansen, at White Hart Lane

7:00AM GMT 21 Jan 2013

Manchester United’s hopes of regaining the Premier League title will always be in jeopardy if David de Gea keeps making mistakes like the one against Spurs and he must surely be on his last chance now.

Without a doubt he cost them three points and this is a crucial stage of the season where Sir Alex Ferguson needs to decide whether to stick with him or take him out the firing line.

The result at White Hart Lane could prove a season defining moment and United cannot afford to be drawing games when they should be winning them.

Related Articles⁠

Furious Sir Alex Ferguson blasts linesman, claiming Manchester United should have had penalty at Tottenham

......De Gea is only 22 and there is no doubt that he made two or three great saves against Spurs. He is an excellent shot-stopper but he has that weakness coming for the ball and it is always going to end up costing them.

It cannot be allowed to continue because other teams are going to play on it. They will set up their approach to games to target the goalkeeper

Do you know Alan Hansen at all? I can't believe a Man United fan can be posting Alan Hansen's article to prove anything on United forum. Let me tell you. Alan Hansen is a former Liverpool Player who doesn't see anything good about United. He is a Man United critic. This article even affirms this.

I have patiently read through this DDG issue. In as much as i will not agree that DDG is the best goalkeeper in the EPL, i will say that this season so far, he has improved so much to be in the top three goalkeepers in England.

For crying out loud, this is his second season in EPL that is more physical than the league (La Liga) he has come from. He needs time to adapt to the physicality of the league and so far he has been a fast learner. When SAF went to chunk that huge sum on him, he was looking at the long term potentials in him. There are very few goalkeepers who came to the EPL at the same age DDG came and immediately hit the ground with fantastic performances week in week out. In as much as it is very unfair to be comparing him with those goalkeepers a lot of fans have mentioned, he has also held his own among them according to statistics which i believe are more reliable than what a lot of us see.

I do not agree that he cost us the league last season because as he made some mistakes so also he made a lot of point blank saves for example away to Tottenham, at home to Arsenal, at home to Chelsea, away to Stoke. Yes he made some mistakes last season which nobody is disputing but at the same time we are not seeing those kind of mistakes this season.

We have conceded a lot of goals this season but that was not down to the DDG's mistakes but our defenders' mistakes. I want you to remember that there were times when Carrick was drafted to the defence. Also we didn't have a stable defence throughout the fist half of the season. We are now seeing improvement now because we now have a stable defence. All these things contributes to our team conceding many goals at the beginning of the season. A good and stable defensive line will always make a good goalkeeper.

Take a good look at this and take notice of APP (Appearance) of DDG compared to others (Petr Cech and Joe Hart) ahead of him, you will agree with me that he has really improved tremendously. These are reliable statistics.

dangiwa09: This is very painful to read.

English Language professor, that is a job for you to do on this thread. Continue picking out all those typographical errors on this thread. But you failed to realise that this is not a thread where you flex you English Language writing skill muscle. I think you have a whole job of corrections to do from the beginning of this thread. One musician have sang it in the past that "English no be my language"

Mr.T Anonymous:
i cn see dat u r 1 of dose man u fans who watches d bck of d tv,in d 1st half hw many clear chances did u get maybe 3/4,n we also got 2,in d 2nd half,we got clear did i jst mention clearsorry we got gr8 chances dat we lost,has i said earlier,if only mata has scored,it wuld av been a diff.story.
Again,pls always concentrate on d game u r watching and nt b flattered by what pple say or r u a learner

Thank you so very much. It is the back of the TV i watched and also i am still a learner. You said "we got clear did i jst mention clearsorry we got gr8 chances dat we lost,has i said earlier,if only mata has scored,it wuld av been a diff.story" There is no "if"[/b] in football. Nobody lay football with if. Who told your Mata or any other player that got your so called "clear/gr8 chances"[b] not to score or is it that Man United have paid them not to score? Or is it Howard Webb that you called Man United refree who hold their legs or prevented them from scoring. It is the result that speaks and not "clear/gr8 chance" and "if". You are so with that your if.

hotwax: What I am simply saying it. Don't muddle things up. We are talking about leg kick, you are talking about offside goal. He is not talking about offside goal.
Chicharito scored an offside goal against chelsaea thanks to clattemburg. He didn't complain of this. Terry his somebody in the leg and he got sent off. Do you understand the difference now? You can even get additional match ban because of this.
You won your championsleagues thanks to bias officiating.

Have you check the link that i posted in the message? What did you see in the pictures? What was the decision that was supposed to be taken is such scenario according to Fifa? Which of the Champions League did United won with bias officiating. My friend, if you say they are bias officiating, then it goes to every club. Every club benefits from it and that is my point. Colocinni broke Demba Ba's nose. He was not given any caution and you Chelsea fans didn't deem it fit to be debated/discussed on this forum.

1025: uncle, reading this ur post reminds me of ppl who u see on the road walking and just talking to themselves. everything about man u and their fans are different. every other that posts here do same with pictures as prove. pls make enough research and come out with proves like i do. for example, see the picture below.

ur able coach has gone mad since his team was given just one red card. he no longer talk to press, he no longer shake hands with other coaches and the wife is even complaining that he no longer sleep inside the bed room. why?
what will he do if his team was given two red cards like ur ref(mr. clattenberg) did to chelsea? maybe he will jump inside the ocean.
sometimes, i do think fergie is having problems managing old age because he said van persie was lucky to be alive when ordinary ball hit him but said nani didn't do anything wrong for kicking somebody on the chest as u can see in the picture below.
is manu suffering from their nick name(red devil). is this a confirmation that nothing good comes from the devil?

What are you driving at? Is it that Man United get most decisions from refrees going their way more than any team in EPL or what? Decisions goes in favour of so many other clubs in EPL more than Man United. Go and research this well. You people are always particular about the ones that goes in favour of all other teams. You are only being sentimental. I know you can research well. Go to this link http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_12_fouls_misconduct_en_47379.pdf and see picture of an offence that is more dangerous than the one committed by Nani and read through pages 26 - 28 of the disciplinary action against such offence and tell me if there is sending off there.

hotwax: Can't you read simple English?
He did not complain Ferdidinand scored offside. He said ferdinand kicked Toress in the leg, which terry did and got red carded. The ref did not see Terry, but other officials called the attention of the ref to it.
But what about FA united? They did as if nothing happened. No wonder English officials are not much in championsleague? They always display their hooligalism when it involves manu.
Thank God English FA have less power in chapionsleague. They would have killed that competition.

English Language master. Who's complaining that "Ferdidinand" scored an offside goal. I know you understand English language so well. What did they give Colocinni when he broke Demba Ba's nose? Why not shout to heavens because of that? And how did Man United win the three Champions league they won?

bushwailo: U seem to Forget that Machieda scored a clear handball in that match !

Exactly what i expected from a Chelsea fan. They will never talk about the offside goal scored by Chelsea to win the league in 2010 because it favours them.

Mr.T Anonymous:
se u see se na luck u get if nt,d count wuld av been 5-2,bout d players,se u see hazard classic goal,R2 to bad.
Blues 4 life,OSCAR,MATA,HAZARD,BA,if mata scored dat goal,it wuld av been anoda story,na luck u get sha,don't worry u will be trashed in stamford bridge

May be na luck Chelsea too get wey Man United no convert all their chances in the first half.

1025: abeg, has fa, man u or the refs said anything about why ferdinand did not get a red card yesterday?
it is a shame that manure has their own laws and can do anything on the pitch especially when their personal refs are in charge.
barca - chelsea where JT kicked sanchez, the ref did not see but either the 4th official or the linesmen saw. yesterday, the fa, fergie, 4th official, the linesmen and everything official in england went blind to what ferdinand did to torres.

That is what you have been posting since yesterday nothing else. More grease to your fingers. I wonder how many of these things you'll see if you are a refree. They were also blind when Fernando Torres scored an offside goal against Reading at the beginning of the season. So also it was obvious that the match officials were blind when Chelsea were awarded a goal that didn't go close to the line as a goal to win Tottenham 2 - 1 in April 2011. Pot calling kettle black.

Ema prince: Those penalties that brought man u levels with chelsea in their 3-3 draw were cheap!..Man foolish fans should be calling themselves lucky after de gea saved them yesterday..that washed-up old racist called ferguson is attributing their poor game to real madrid loss when chelsea also lost to steaua..Man u played on teusday at home and had enough time to prepare against chelsea while chelsea travelled a long way to play on thursday having only a day to prepare against dis-united and still came out the strongest..i think that sour loser of a man should start giving credits to chelsea.

It's obvious that man u can never win chelsea without the help of ref!!!

What of the match between the two at Old Trafford on the 18th September 2012 where Chelsea were beaten 3 - 1? Or is it that you have forgotten so soon? Man United must be so RICH to have been able to buy all the refrees in England. They are also Rich to have bought UEFA and FIFA to prevent them from being investigated for match fixing. This is really absurd. Even in europe Man United bought refrees to win three champions league. What a people!

Meritbaba: With the help of Ur Bald-headed legend, I wonder hw U wud explain 2 penalties in the range of 10 mins, Chelsea wouldn't even need the help of a ball boy to keep tronching ur Scum club

I wonder how you too would explain this. In 2010 when Chelsea played Man United in a title deciding match at Old Trafford, Drogba was brought in to score a goal from an offside position to win the game. Chelsea then went ahead to win the with one point (Chelsea 86pts, United 85pts) Heaven did not fall because of this. You can see how offside goal won Chelsea the league. Those penalties were legitimate penalties irrespective of the time range within which it was awarded. Chelsea has the highest number of penalties this season.

Bimfo: With two Undeserved Penalties?

*Abeg, Drop My Coments.... U don't ave to Quote Me* I hate Mis_Understandings

Thanks in advance!

Which one is undeserved enalties Is it the foul that Sturridge committed against Evra or the one Ivanovic committed against Hernandez? Definitely all the nine penalties awarded to Chelsea are also "Undeserved". You Chelsea fans are to sentimental about Man United and you people are part of the reasons why Man United is the most hated team.

Bimfo: Anything, Anything... It has Gone Down the History Books that Man-U were 2 Goals Up and My Chelsea Forced a Draw at Old Trafford... So, Beat that, Man-U fans!!!! :p

It had also gone down in the same history book that Chelsea were 3 goals up at Stamford Bridge last season and Man United came back and drew the match at 3 - 3.

1025: playing manu 100 times is never a problem rather we always ask, who will be the ref? do not forget, man u won chelsea last time when clantenberg gave 2 red cards and an offside goal against 9 men chelsea gave them the winning courtsey of the ref. the next meeting was in carling cup, chelsea celebrated because neighter clattenberg nor webb was at the centre on that day.
pls, let man u come and win without their fa approved refs.
can chelsea get away with what ferdinand did today? not possible.

So what prevented Webb from winning the match for Man United? You must be one of the Man United haters. Chelsea has the highest number of penalty kicks in the league this season. If it were to be United you people will cry foul but you are not saying anything about that. Also, Chelsea vs Reading, Torres was miles offside when he scored his goal and the goal was counted as a goal for chelsea. Last season, Chelsea was given a goal that didn't even go near the line not to talk of crossing it as a goal against Tottenham. I wonder why most especially Chelsea fans will be shouting as if Chelsea never benefited from refrees' mistakes. I will continue saying that every club benefits from refrees' mistakes but they even out at the end of the season.

dopeJemi: God bLess u 4 dis statistics.. Dis z 2 show dat dey hate Manchester united 4 being successfuL, even without d heLp of referees we still top d tabLe, doesn't dat define success.. Thank God we alL know d club dat has benefited more 4rm poor officiating and where dey wud av been if not 4 d heLp of d refs

Smh! Let dem hate alL dey want, it doesn't change d fact dat we r d Best in engLand

You have not seen anything. Check out last season that was won by Man City. All these are done by independent refrees.

All Man United haters should go to this site http://www.debatabledecisions.com/english-premier-league-tables and see who benefits most from refrees decisions in EPL this season after 22 games. See where Man United is, where they would have been without those decisions and the position they are on the Decision Table.

baby-boy:
Was Kompany sent off in that match? yes or no.......

Yes, Kompany was sent off but it was in FA cup match. Was Johny Evans sent of in the league match that Man City won 6 - 1?

baby-boy:
We were talking about decision united get away with, who cares whether they finish with 13 v 11

Every team benefits from refree's mistake every season. It is not peculiar to only Man United. Which team has the most penalty kicks this season? It is Chelsea with 9 while Man United has 5. If it were to be other way round Man United haters will not let us sleep. They are just too sentimental.

idirect: [size=13pt]The red card gave Sir Alex a perfect alibi. Great man manager, but average tactician, I have always maintained. When your team goes a man down, rightly or wrongly, you have to make a tactical change. He didn't!He moaned and pleaded with the fans to make more noise. It works in England. Against the best players it's a laughable tactic. He should have immediately taken off RVP who had been a passenger all nigh and brought in an extra midfielder. Jose said when jhe was at Inter that in England they play with their hearts and in Italy and elsewhere they play with their minds. last night was a perfect example.
Jose the tactician quickly changed his plan to bring in Benzema for Higuaim. Took out Aberloa who was on a yellow and would have been booed the whole night and brought in a creative midfielder. The rest is history-atleast in the rest of the world.
Inter Milan lost a man to a dubious redcard at the camp nou in 2010 in the frist few minutes of the first half and still went on to win. Chelsea lost Terry and still went on to win at Camp Nou. I can go on..
Bottom line- Top teams with top managers do not concede 2 goalsin 12 minutes just becuase they lost a man. Alex's lack of tactical awareness cost them the game. Over the two legs they played like a small team that knew they were gainst a superior team (despite the claims that it was a clash of giants) and they went out like a small team- instead of playing lke a team that's leading the supposedly best league in the world by more than 10 points. Let's not forget, Real had 65% possession and no United player had no actual scored a goal before the sending off.

For the record, yes another ref would probably have not given the red card but those of us who do not just watch the EPL see them given in Europe all the time.[/size]

I know you are a good coach and a good tactician. I want you list teams that played with ten men against eleven men in champions league competition and went ahead to win the such match apart from the two that was against Barcelona because you said you can go on.

You also said that SAF should have brought out RVP for a defender to defend one goal against Real Madrid! What you failed to know is that Barcelona is a team that plays only possession football but if they face any team that has disciplined defenders they always struggle because that is the only style of game they play. Barcelona rarely shoots from outside the penalty box. Unlike Real Madrid that can also possess the ball, can counter-attack, and can shoot the ball from anywhere outside the box. Will any Barcelona player shoot the ball the way Modric shot to score? No. They'll rather want to work the ball into the net. Any team that plays too defensive against Real Madrid will always concede a goal/an own goal. It is always suicidal for any team to sit back and defend one goal against Real Madrid.

You said they played like a small team over the two legs. Who was the busier goal keeper in the second leg before the red card was given? Madrid Goal keeper. What brought out the own goal? Pressure. Up until the red card, how many shot on goal did Madrid have? I don't know what you meant by United played like a small team.

You also said that top teams with top managers do not concede 2 goals in 12 minutes just becuase they lost a man and that because of that SAF lacks tactical awareness. I will take down memory lane on your "Jose the Tactician". In the first el clasico played by Jose, with 11 v 11 that he lost "Scandalously" by 5 - 0, David Villa scored two goals within two minutes(55th and 58th minute). Also, at santiago banebeau in December 2011, he lost to Bacelona by 3 - 1 with two goals by Xavi in 54th minute and Fabregas 65th minute(within 12 minutes). What does that make your Jose? A very bad tactician because he played with 11 vs 11 and lost two games with two goals within 12 minutes.

Lest i forget, possession doesn't win a football game. No team possess the ball more than Barcelona but then they still lost to Ac Milan, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Rubin Kazan, and so on.
This same so called "Good Tactician" Mourinho came to Old Trafford with Inter Milan in 2009 and got beaten with two unreplied goals. Stop throwing stones. SAF is one of the best coaches in the game. Mourinho himself admitted that 11 v 11 he wouldn't have won that game.

la furia: when toress got sent off, fergi said toress dived and should have stood up, man u fans defended the decision. kompany got a red card against man u in an FA cup match last season, he won the ball completely, no injury to nani, nani was still standing trying to win the ball back, suddenlt the ref gave kompany a red card. kompany went for d ball, won the ball but accused of dangerous play, and off he went.was nani play dangerous or not?
even after d red card, madrid derseved a penalty for rafeal handball. the truth is if man u had won, we wont be here talking about nani's red card. inter milan dont talk motta's red card because they still won.

a bitter lesson to fergie. always admit a ref decision favoured your team rather than defend it. at least dont say anything.

Every team benefits from from refree's mistakes. Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and some other teams have all benefited from refree's mistakes. Vicent Company was never sent off during Man city game against United. Who has the most penalty kicks in the EPL this season? It is Chelsea. The decision has been taken and there is nothing anybody can do about that. Why this discussion is coming up is for us to say the refree made a mistake in that decision and move on. It is those Man United haters who always shout and complain when Man United benefits from such mistakes. Real Madrid has benefited from two mistakes from the refree in two subsequent matches now ( penalty turned down against Barcelona and this red card against Man United). When it goes against them at another time, they shouldn't complain.

stan smart: @fabville, its an unfair decision and i feel d ref suld av used his sense but saying dat is a normal challenge den i tink u r taking it 2 far. d ref applied the rules and no onw can fault him for that. Its eufa/fifa i blame for not including "the intent of the player".When shawcross broke ramsey's leg was it intentional? once it is liable to cause injuries it is considered dangerous play and has notin 2 do with intent, the fact dat in other cases it wasnt considered dangerous play doesnt make it rite, d rules r d rules

That is what you fail to understand Ramsey's own was ball on the ground and it was a two-footed challenge. That was a violent conduct. These are two different situations. There is no way you can put intent in the laws because that is to be at the discretion of the refree. I asked you of a scenario that i metioned in my previous post which you have not answered about two player contest for a ball.

dopesidez: have you ever played football before if so you should know that they don't use much force to control a ball that you think there is no one contesting it with you.

The same question goes to you. A ball high in the air and moving a little bit away from you needs you to jump with it in order to bring it down totally dead. That is not force. I have seen Zinedine Zidane done that several times.

stan smart: dat is not a normal challenge with your studs above waist level. the bone of contention is the intent of d player and the rules dont include the intent of the player meaning whether intentional or not once u make a dangerous play dat can cause injuries and dere is contact the ref can give a red card. Its unfair but the rules r d rules. Moreso the head of referees in england confirmed this. Moreso refs r given different rules by epl,eufa and fifa.A rule in eufa may b applied differently in the epl or different in the worldcup

Can you mention to me anywhere in the world where one player was trying to head a ball and an opposing player was also trying to use his leg to control the ball and the player who raised his leg to control the ball was given a straight red card? This is even more than dangerous than Nani's. If there is intent their will be excessive force and that is what they call violent conduct in the rules. And mind u that was a normal challenge because Abeloa was on Nan's blind side. Does he not have a right to go for the ball? Will he be ball watching?