₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=590472.msg7584518#msg7584518 date=1295736129]You are making a lot of assumptions for someone who grew up in a different culture speaking English as a first language. If they had taught me calculus and physics in Yoruba I can bet I will be way better that I was in those courses. Speaking for myself.

You probably don't understand the disadvantages if navigating two languages at the same time, especially when you are dealing with difficult concepts, we know speaking more than one language will probably make you smarter, one reason I always doff my hat for African and Asian immigrant students who excel in foreign schools -Not speaking about 2nd or 3rd generations like you Eku_bear - but at what cost?

Speaking broadly, I believe the world is definitely poorer because of the suppression of African ideas and philosophies. You can imagine how much poorer we are because of that.[/quote]I totally approve this message

I understand eku_Bear's apprehension on this matter; He is looking out for himself and the privileged few like him.

Eku doesnt seem to care about the welfare of the million's of others left behind by as long as his needs are satisfied . "Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of creative altruism or in the darkness of destructive selfishness"

SEFAGO:
wow only fstranger can handle that

Care to join?

With your mensa-kini, we can make it the best three-some ever!

buzugee:
she aiittt i guess. depends on your taste. i took a pic of her too. https://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3600/kobor.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Just as I imagine!


So she uses those fat hands to type the arrant balderdash that have now become her trademark?


Odikwa is feli feli serious ooooooooo

^^^

What does Madam kobo look like?

Fat as-s? big bosoms? tall? fair?

Please describe

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=590472.msg7584272#msg7584272 date=1295732316]The main concern is expense, not so much "will." Like, who would pay to develop and maintain this material?[/quote]Which one is more expensive? Educating a few while making many unproductive or Educating as much as possible in their native language with the additional value of exploiting their inventiveness which would invariably increase their productivity and the GDP of the whole populace, not to talk about  how it would strengthen governance by ensuring full participatory democracy

It wouldn't be cheap. Also to some extent locks you out of existing research and resources available in the West.

Do you care to explain how the Asians have been locked out of existing research and resources available in the West? And while you are at it, you may also want to explain how the Americans have always declined any sort of collaboration with the Russians just because they do not speak the same language.

I don't mind promoting language/culture, but not in expensive ways that duplicate the wheel.

I think , in the long term, say 100 yrs from now, not utilizing the full human resources at our disposal, by sticking stubbornly to a rickety wheel that needs constant repair, is more expensive than duplicating a new wheel that would be more durable, more inclusive and might probably last longer.

Jakumo:
Hey !  Some of my best friends are rats, so please show some respect.

Good for you

I use them for research; putting dyes in their basal fore brain, only to be guillotined 10 days after. Haha, gone are those days!

Katsumoto:
Perhaps when you want to introduce physics to pupils in primary school. There is only so far you can go with simplistic explanations. Perhaps it can work with Arts b[b]ut I doubt that approach can go far with sciences.[/b]

The same thing was said before Ajayi Crowther translated the Bible into Yoruba language in the early 1900s

It can be done, we just have to start from some where

The almighty English language didnt always have ready made words for scientific elements  and phenomenons, but by sheer will, improvisation, inventiveness, borrowing from other languages, and hard work, they achieved what probably seemed unachievable then. We just have to start from somewhere

yeswecan:
subjugate small ethnicities- that's unfair.

It won't be easy to get one uniform cultural ideology in a country like ours- that's my point.  We cannot Roll Back the state, we are already deep in the western lane that i think any systematic arrangement to roll us back will be a disaster.

Well, look at at this way:

Where do we want to be in the next 100 years?

What kind of Nigeria do we intend leaving for our great grand children.

If we start now, there is the possibility of creating a new Nigeria capable of standing toe to toe with other world powers. On the other hand, if we continued with the same western ideology and culture that has relegated us to the background, we will never, till eternity, take our rightful position in the comity of nations, we will remain insignificant as we have always been and continue to be the laughing-stock of the rest of the world.

The best option is the cultural revolution my Oga Kilode? suggested. I agree, it is the more difficult of the options available. But, it is the only option capable of lifting us out of this doldrums.  It wont be easy; if it were easy every one would do it. And, nothing good comes easy anyway.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=590472.msg7583735#msg7583735 date=1295725180]I know it fell short, though I recommended a Cultural Revolution,

Seriously, I cannot provide solutions to all of those specific issues, I believe experts in those areas will have to do that. But, I think each solution will need to address the issue of culture, national identity and collective national ideology, everything cannot be reduced to mathematical theorems, Maybe it can

Don't we have homegrown ideas rooted in African philosophies that can address the issues of resource control or revenue sharing? Public corruption and Education? Punishment and due process, I believe we do.

On corruption: I will refer to an idea expressed my [b]Prof Sophie Oluwole of The University of Ibadan or Lagos [/b]I think?, I read and saved this from the Nigerian Guardian papers few years ago, I cannot get a web-link right now;

"In African tradition when you steal and you are identified, you will be punished because you’ve done something wrong and we believe that the act would even prevent our ancestors from being interested in our affairs and also to make it a deterrent, But when oyinbo man came they started looking for scientific proof, the suspect will go to court and the complainant will be asked to prove it "beyond reasonable doubt". But in the original African culture we taught our children that that when you steal, even without anybody seeing you, you will be punished by the gods and it became a part of our system. But when the oyinbo people came, they told our people that, "Sango cannot kill you, you can continue to sin. Just say in the name of Jesus your sins are forgiven. "Why will a society not be corrupt? Especially when it’s not used to such graces!"  -Sophie Oluwole is a retired professor of African philosophy [Italics, my emphasis]

Will that solve our problem? can we find solutions based on our culture and the our worldview? or is she just a crazy old professor? I don't think she's crazy.



Packers have nothing on the Bears but I don't know too much about American football so go figure[/quote]Sophie Oluwole is from UNILAG. I had the rare privilege of listening to her interview on AIT in 2001, and since then I have been hooked on her style and ideology. She is prolly the greatest Nigerian I have ever heard speak. She has a lot of weird ideas, and the reason I wished we had not wholesomely adopted western education, culture and ideas. She gave me hope and belief in our culture.

Giving example of how Physics can be taught in Yoruba she said: "Take the proverbs, Laala to roke, ile lo’nbo.If you want to teach gravity in Yoruba language, that is how you would teach the physics subject of gravity, which simply means “What goes up must come down.”

I wish we had more people like her.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=590472.msg7583517#msg7583517 date=1295721659]You are right about ignorance.

I don't do "blame the west" arguements of the type I think you are referring to.

For example, I don't blame the west for seeking an expansion, I do not blame the west for seeking cheap resources, I do not blame the west for spreading their ideas and their religion, I do not blame the west for negotiating in their own interests. I will probably do the same. That was not a "blame the west" post, it is an "Africa shine your eye" post

I'm not blaming the victims either, This is not a blame game scenario, that is too simple for me.

I essentially gave my thoughts on the reasons why we seem so far back and disconnected from the principles that drives the world we inhabit.

We have little to do with the production and development of the ideas and processes that we currently use, we lack that philosophical and emotional connection to them, not because we lack emotions or good philosophies [I believe we have them in ample supplies] but because we are not leveraging them.

Western democracy, Western capitalism, Western human right laws, Magna carta, Due process, representative governance, even the languages we speak. all these principles and more are based on imported western, philosophical thoughts. We had to learn them, translate them then try to practice them within the context of African society.

I believe all that placed us at a disadvantage, We could have developed ours, even evolve new ones, because I believe we had parallel ideas, we still do. EX: in Nigeria we will easily kill N20 thieves in our marketplaces probably because we are repulsed by their act, but we seem clueless or reluctant to deal with those who steal Billions from public government accounts. We even praise and hail them as our sons and daughters.

Do I blame the west for all that? heck no? I don't even blame our ancestors for it. They did what they could. it is what it is, poo happens. The question is what are we going to do?

Now, You mentioned India, Malaysia and Singapore, I'm glad you used those examples, what languages do they speak? What are their national cultures like? I will put india and Malaysia on the same scale and separate Singapore.

I'll skim the surface;

India: No national language, but they have a national culture. Despite their colonial history, we cannot ignore the impact of Hindi culture and Indian philosophy on their Country. From the Indian caste system to their own unique brand of parliamentary democracy, to their high usage of Hindi language, -for primary educational instruction to daily communication- Despite the presence of various languages and sub cultures, India can be called a country with a national culture.

Look at Gandhi's history, he read Thoreau alright, But his principle of peaceful civil disobedience borrowed heavily from the hagavad-Gita and some of the sacred Hindu Upanishads, that was his chief anchor, His satyagraha was based on the Ahimsa principle's of his Indian culture and religion. He influenced Martin Luther King, he eventually influenced Nelson Mandela. Did Ghandi borrow, yes, a bit, but it was based ultimately on his cultural and religious beliefs and he changed the world and liberated his people.

Like Nigeria, they assimilated a lot of British processes, but you cannot compare the depth of their cultural usage and the impact of their culture and philosophies on governance to what we have in Nigeria, not because we lack culture, but because we failed to translate it better to the institutions we got from the British. Nigeria is better than a lot of other African countries in this regard. But we are far behind other nations and this is killing us, we lack the emotional connection to the ideas that drives the world we were forced into. The Indian example is one reason I have a love-hate relationship with Nollywood, I don't like the quality but I like the cultural significance [another topic].

Malaysia: Speaks mainly Malay, they gave themselves a national culture policy in the 70's. It was a deliberate attempt to create that connection I'm speaking of, I may not agree with their subjugation of smaller cultures and languages, but it made their lives easier, they even retained their "king" to boot, albeit ceremoniously. Check the British too. That connection and translation of ideas into familiar cultures and philosophy that we can emotionally connect to is very necessary if we want to address our problems in Nigeria.

Singapore: Glad you brought it up. An interesting example, a mix bag of cultures, Foreigners make up about 40-42% of Singapore's population. You cannot compare their history and circumstances to our's at all. I think Singapore is referred to as the most globalized country in the world. it is a prime candidate for assimilation, and successfully borrowed philosophies.

I read that two out of every three people in Singapore is not Singaporean LOL. . . Nigeria is not at that stage yet.  Malaysian Chinese, Indians, Bangladeshis, Filipinos, Indonesians, Australians, Americans, Europeans, they have it all, we do not.

We can't compare Singapore to us in the context I'm speaking of. The national language is English and it better be. The culture thing will not affect them like i believe it affects Nigeria because they have completed the cycle, It's a global culture country. Singapore is a market, not a "home"


Now, note that none of these countries are in the G8, it is not a mistake. I believe it is hard for a country that depends too much on borrowed philosophies with little emotional connection to their own ideas to attain that level, It takes more than brains, guns and geography. History cheated us, we need to correct it, that is one reason I will vote for a Cultural revolution and it does not have to be bloody.

[Topic kinda drained me ]   [/quote]Now I think you are the smartest person on NL.  [size=4pt]prolly second to the one and only, Aare becomrichn, your mentor[/size]

Glad we see things the same way.

But your in-depth knowledge and creativity shone through this write-up

Your best essay yet on this ever evolving topic!

Kobojunkie:
Or another state entirely. There is no tax on people moving from one state to another, And you can even move as far as California for your peace of mind ooo!!!

You ask an illegal immigrant to move to a bankrupt state where jobs are being slashed on a daily basis.

I hail thee Madam Kobo!

omongbatim:
Not really interested in US citizenship. I get all I need with the GC and with my skills, could do more for myself anywhere in the world.

Kidnapping technologist? Hi-Tech okijist?

What do you do exactly?

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=590472.msg7582882#msg7582882 date=1295712916]Frankly, That is the debate I'm waiting for. . .

I agree with you, except that I'm not so sure the flaw is inherently in the values, I think it's in the translation of those vales to the world we got ourselves thrust into.

EX: The European incursion into Africa, the almost sudden (in historical context) subjugation of our religious, philosophical and social belief systems and the lack of strong emotional connections to this new euro-centric one -its systems, its beliefs and philosophies- is IMO, at the root of our problems.

I'm not against foreign ideas and religion, But I think History and chance blindsided us, We (Nigerias/Africans ) lost ourselves in translation/transition.[/quote]Succinct, poignant, incisive, comprehensive and absolutely correct!

5 Gbozas for you

May the more than 400 Irunmoles inhabiting the four corners of this world continue to increase your knowledge

omongbatim:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_residence_%28United_States%29

Eku Bear, I got this from Wiki. I am just concerned. About finalizing a big job with UNEP that will take me to East Africa. So wanted to be sure I can return afterwards.lol. So at least I get to show face every once a year or fill the re-entry form before leaving.

I hope they deny you re-entry permit!

You shouldnt be living with us citizens!

Odunnu:
I thankGod for your miracle,but much more than that,I thankGod for your repentance. I was beginning to fear for you

I concur cutie pie

^^^

Thanks to the Irunmoles on the 4 corners of the world

Without them, it would never have been possible

oyewolejos:
U wish but sorry wishes aint horses B.M.F ( Big Mother Fuccker). Instead of u to shut your smelly mouth u still went ahead and say shiit.
Holier than thou

Sorry, have we met?


Why the hate?


Did someone collect your lunch money?

oldbende:
I thank all of you for your contributions, after reading your posts I have changed my mind to remain in the states, this forum have help me resolve one of of the most controversial issue in my life, moreover I'm a guy not a girl .

Once again I appreciate your contributions.

you know what you are doing is illegal!

you are breaking laws

whether you like it or not,  sooner or later, you will have to go back, voluntarily or by force.

If your present economic situation doesnt make you go back to Nigeria voluntarily, it is a matter of time before you get caught by immigration, and when they do, you'd be forced to go back home, most likely, with some prescription meds to soothe your sore anus.

chamber2:
Well,I am yet to discover what you found unpleasant with my writing style or maybe you derive joy in e-fighting,if the later is the case i will refer you to the zoo.People like you are the ''never do wells'' who place no value on the achievements of others.

ok!

you know me far too well!

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=589689.msg7580437#msg7580437 date=1295668044]@Ileke-IdI: I DO know that they are different. I cannot understand what the people say in my village when they speak hardcore Ekiti, lol! I just not my head.

Yoruba I understand 90% of, Ekiti I don't have an ear for.

@SEFAGO: I just don't like getting messy when I'm eating. And getting stew all over the cup, etc. Just makes me enjoy my food less if I'm eating with anything other than a fork. I'm a very finicky eater. I hate eating rice with spoons, for example.[/quote]So how do you eat your rice?

.   .  .  drinking it after pounding it to a pulp?

^^^^

@ Eku_Bear:


Can you do what those ladies are doing?


I bet you cant!

Wanna bet?


Not even wimpy SEFAGO can do that?

SEFAGO:
Ignore them joor, I eat pounded yam too with a fork. Lots of Nigerians do.

You call that Pounded yam?

Who is talking about that crap you eat in obodo-oyinbo

I am talking about the real deal prepared the old-fashioned way, see below:

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=589689.msg7580404#msg7580404 date=1295667235]@fstranger1:

Wtf is ule? I barely know Yoruba, not to talk of Ekiti dialect.

100% correct, I eat pounded yam with a fork  Even my little sisters born here eat it with their hands. I'm weird![/quote]

you are in trouble with ileke

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=589689.msg7580306#msg7580306 date=1295664245]Gbam!!
Y[b]ou be real Ekiti boy[/b], you make me proud  [/quote]Even though he has never eaten Iyan and egusi with his dirty bare hands, let alone pound the shyyt out of 'isu ewura?'

And he prolly does not know how to pronounce 'ule'


Ileke, i think you are high on 'morning after pill'

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=590348.msg7580326#msg758032[b]6 date=1295664938]
I am so happy and joyful, and I wanted to tell my testimonies to man. To let man know how wonderful my God has been to me.[/quote]Nah, You just want to brag to us on how smart you are to have eventually passed algebra.

@OP:At 44 you are still in college taking elementary algebra and you call that a miracle?



What would you say when you start taking courses in string theory, relativity and what not.


Msheew!

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=589689.msg7580290#msg7580290 date=1295663961]I did not make fun of her.  I stated my opinion.  The other line you're looking at I was actually talking about a post in another thread.  Read my post well.

My only interaction with her was twice - one mindless and personal attack, one other which I didn't really mind.  But my general opinion is from reading her posts which at this time I rarely ever ever do.  No hard feelings.

I've given my advice to the OP and I'm done for now. [/quote]You ve got time

There is no need whatsoever justifying your stand/firm opinion to any one.

Simply ignoring that guy would have been enough!

^^^^

Thank God madam Kobo is back!

I was really worried about you!

I am glad you are alright. i did not read your post as usual. Just seeing you post is enough to make my cold go away!

Hope you had a nice time with Mr. Kobojunkie?