₦airaland Forum

Pastor AIO:
ps. I think that I can criticise any statement that has been put in front of me and I don't have to read tomes of nonsense. If in the process of making my criticism I show that I don't understand the subtleties of the subject then I'd expect the person that I'm discussing with and who initially proposed the statements to correct me.

You brought up the whole nonsense of critical thinking in the first place and now you are too hi4lootin' to condescend to discuss and defend your position. How impressive!

I am prepared to talk about CT here not philosophy of mind. You get it?

dgreatrock:
besides, there is nothing called atheist, it is a deception.
they all believe in God only that they try telling others they dont!

Do you believe in the Gods Thor or in Wotan or in Zeus? If you understand why I don't believe in these gods, you would understand why I don't believe in your god.

Pastor AIO:
Has anyone ever read a translation of any of Hitler's speeches?

Nope. Have you?

Pastor AIO:
Of course, I understand your position. But you've got to admit that you did endorse it. When asked how to become an atheist you pointed at Critical thinking.

I still need some evidence to show me that this is not just some dodgy baseless dogma.

So it is not one sided I will offer also a schema of how I believe the mind can be partitioned.

I believe that the functions are 3-fold.
1) Emotions, based on urges which can be either instinctive or based on experiences.

2) Pseudo-Rationality, which is a refinement of the Emotional processes.

These first two can also be called Sensible or Sensational functions.

The 3) is Rationality. However I use rationality in a different sense from what you call rationality. What I believe you are calling rationality is what I would call pseudo rationality. But before this part causes an impasse in our discussion I am happy to drop it.

Speaking broadly I say that Emotions have their seat in the Limbic system and the Cortex of the human brain, While the Neo-cortex houses the pseudo rational processes of the brain.

I'll stop here and see if you have any questions.

Looks like you are keen to debate this mind/body/thinking issue. To tell the truth, I am not in the mood for that. That is a whole big subject on its own and an slowly working my way thru some advanced books on the subject. The philosophers of mind have still got the major question unresolved, much less me or you.

I randomly selected a manual from their site and posted the stuff here as an apitiser, as I said. It does not mean that I endorsed it. Why don't you look at their other manuals on less controversial subjects, like this - http://www.criticalthinking.org/files/Concepts_Tools.pdf.


CT is becoming a well established subject in its own right now. A great deal of the essence of CT used to be taught in Logic and Philosophy classes, but most academic now think that its importance gets lost in these traditions subjects. Have you looked at all the books on CT (on amazon)? Have you looked at the college and university courses on CT. Have you looked at the professional programs on CT?

Pastor AIO:
What a Nice phat load of Dogma you've dished out for us!

This is what your gurus say:
Are these distinctiosn for real or are they just arbitrary? To be honest I was expecting examples and demonstrations backed with an analysis of the brain and how different distinct parts operate the different distinct functions. Again, Huxley, you have disappointed me. Without backing you have just dropped some statements on me gbolaaa!, just like that.

Let's start with thinking. What part of the brain does Thinking? Let's say that I accept uncritically what you define as thinking, how does this fit in with the other functions of the mind that you propose.
Feeling, as you have defined it, suggests to me that it is just Thinking with Appraisals added. So if you thinking identifies something with a category then your feelings will tell you whether it is of high value or not, ie where it stands in relation to some ideal.
If I am wrong about any of these things I am sure that you will not hesitate to correct me. I believe that with that definition of feelings we have departed from the common meaning of Feeling, though for the sake of this discussion I am happy to accept your definition of the term.
What part of the Brain contributes the added function of Appraisal to Thinking?

Desires! By your definition if you desire something then that desire will automatically manifest as energy in achieving the thing. Perhaps you have another definition of desire from that which I am used to, but I know many that desire yet are not engaged in achieving their desire.
In fact I am shocked with your guru's claims to be teaching in universities because I find their whole premise quite superficial.

Please huxley can you demonstrate to me that your ideology is better than religion by providing scientifically backed evidence for why the mind can be thus partitioned, otherwise I will be forced to conclude that you are just peddling the dogma of yet another twisted ideology, no different from many of the religions you dislike so much?

These are not my work. I just pick one manual from their site and posted some stuff from it here as an apitiser for those interested. Remember, you are the one who questioned how it is possible to go about learning the skills of CT and I raised this thread to show readers that there is quite a lot of resourses out there. If you want to criticise thge material, well go ahead. That is what CT is anyway.

KunleOshob:
The laws of moses was strictly for the isarealites and it was never introduced to christianity which started after the death of christ. jesus was talking to the Jews in this passage and the jews were meant to live by the laws of moses. Subsequent scriptures in Romans and galatians make it clear that after the death of Christ the laws had become fufilled.

When Jesus was preaching, was he teaching solely to "Christians" as opposed to the Israelites?   Was there a hard and fast dividing line between the Jews who followed the law and the Jews who followed Jesus's teachings?

From which population of people would Jesus have drawn most os his followers?   Which laws would they have been observing before the meet with Jesus's teachings?


For the sake of argument,  if the laws of Moses were meant of the Jews,  this implies that the 10 Commandments were also meant for the Jews and never for Christians.  Is that correct?

Watch Pastor Chris speaking in Mongolian here

Watch Pastor Chris speaking in Mongolian tongue on the video above.

The critical habit of thought, if usual in society, will pervade all its mores, because it is a way of taking up the problems of life. Men educated in it cannot be stampeded by stump orators , They are slow to believe. They can hold things as possible or probable in all degrees, without certainty and without pain. They can wait for evidence and weigh evidence, uninfluenced by the emphasis or confidence with which assertions are made on one side or the other. They can resist appeals to their dearest prejudices and all kinds of cajolery. Education in the critical faculty is the only education of which it can be truly said that it makes good citizens. ~ William Graham Sumner, Folkways, 1906

[Critical thinking is a] desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture. ~ Francis Bacon (1605)



Dear Reader:

To live well is to live as a reasonable and ethical person. Yet humans are not by nature rational or ethical. Humans are predisposed to operate in the world in narrow terms of how it can serve them. Their brains are directly wired into their own pleasure and pain, not that of others. They do not inherently consider the rights and needs of others. Yet humans have the raw capacity to become reasonable and ethical persons, to develop as fair-minded skilled thinkers. But to do so requires:
1. Understanding how the mind works.
2. Using this understanding to develop skills and insights.
This guide addresses the first of these requirements. It lays the conceptual foundations necessary for understanding the mind, its functions, its natural propensity toward irrationality, and its capacity for rationality. It is designed for those interested in developing their potential to be fairminded reasonable persons, concerned with how their behavior affects the lives of others, concerned to develop their full humanity, concerned with making the world a more civilized and just place. It is designed for those willing to transform their thinking to improve their
decisions, the quality of their lives, the quality of their interpersonal relationships, and their vision of the world. It is intended to provide an initial map to help interested persons begin to
free themselves from the traps their minds have constructed. It points the way toward mindfulness and self-understanding through critical thinking. It is, in any case, a beginning place.
Sincerely,
Linda Elder Richard Paul

Taken from http://www.criticalthinking.org/files/SAM-TheHumanMind1.pdf


http://www.criticalthinking.org/

http://www.open.ac.uk/skillsforstudy/critical-thinking.php

http://www.criticalthinking.co.uk/

http://www.criticalthinking.org.uk

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b_0_5?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=critical+thinking&sprefix=criti

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Critical-Thinking-Merrilee-Salmon/dp/0534626637/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235490720&sr=1-1



I hope those interested should find the above links useful.

Pastor AIO:
Please sir, how do you educate yourself in critical thinking?  I admit that my tongue is a little bit in my cheek but if you can explain it to me satisfactorily I will remove it from my cheek.

There are many options available if one is really serious about critical thinking.  In fact, in the UK and US, CT is a subject now studied in colleges and universities and for some career options (eg, law, journalism, nursing, etc) this is a compulsory course module.

There are many books on the subject available to the interested reader.  Just do a search on [url=http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b_0_5?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=critical+thinking&sprefix=criti] Amazon [/url] to see what you would get.  For my money, one of the best is Introduction to Logic and Critical Thinking

There are also some good material for juniors 5 - 12 year old on Amazon and also provided by some independent vendors


I particularly like this site  as it presents some very useful downloadable  manuals and has a very good working definition of what CT is

Other useful rresources are:

http://www.open.ac.uk/skillsforstudy/critical-thinking.php

http://www.criticalthinking.co.uk/



The need for CT is greater now than ever before with the almost limits amounts of data and oppurtunities for such data to be misused.  In the UK, if you work in an environment where you deal with vast quantities of personal, institutional and are involved with making strategic decisions and policies, you will sooner or later be sent to one of these courses by your employers.

If you would like some more details, I would be only too happy to help.  

KunleOshob:
Please read my last previous post on this topic with regards to the obsolete laws of the old testament and what apostle paul had to say about them and our christian lives, if you have any questions after that i would be glad to answer 

When were the laws of the OT made obsolete? Here is Jesus making a point to the contrary, Matthew 5: 17-

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

There appears to be a certain cult of Pastor worship amongst many Christian communities, particularly African Christian communities. This has grown to the point where no criticism of any manner of the pastor is tolerated by the members of the communities. The likes of Jim Jones comes to mind, but in the current times we have the likes of Pastor Adeboye, Pastor Chris, etc, etc. Why have Christian so blinded themselves by the teachings and charisma to these charlatans.

The majority of these Christians are so mesmerised by these Pastors that if they were to walk in on the Pastor shagging their partners, they are likely to ask the Pastor to shag them as well. That is the level of the slavish attachment to the charms and falsehood of these pastors.

So who do these Christians venerate? God, Jesus or their Pastors?

Where is the substance? WHy do people find anything in this? This is empty motivational stuff. Watch

Recognise:
@Huxley

"Let those little one come too me so that I might smash their heads against a wall" said Jesus

Your quote above certainly must have been a gaffe or a sincere blunder, (i.e. a slip-up) if not, then I take as read, that by juxtaposing an Old Testament verse with a New Testament one you were merely baiting or what's more goading.

Does Jesus Love Children? Resounding affirmative, yes He does.
[center]^{KISS. Last posting for the day am outta ere}[/center]

Yes, it was a fusing of the old and new testament verses.   But how do you draw from that that Jesus loves children?   That conclusion does not follow from the premise.

Further, if he were to turn up today, what shall he do with all the millions of little ones who are less than one month old? Is he gonna smash their heads against a rock, as he commanded in the OT?

who has been shopping with their pastor?

Pastor AIO:
My brother, what kind of an atheist do you want to become?

Some Atheists do not believe in God but believe in the existence of a supernatural world.

Other atheists believe neither in God nor in any supernatural

You could be a reactionary atheist. That is an atheists whose beliefs are merely a reaction against some particular religion or ideology. In this case you have to study the religion that you are reacting against and learn to pick holes in it to properly understand your position.

There are numerous others, but the general gist is that you have to think carefully about exactly what kind of atheist you wanna become.

Very good point you made here and it is partly addressed by my post above, ie avoiding becoming like the "reactionary atheists" by educating yourself in critical thinking, scientific rationalism, philosophy, etc. Today, we see reactionary atheism amongst all religionist in the sense that all religionist are atheists with respect to other religions that are not theirs. Thus the christian is a reactionary atheist with respect to the hindu religion, or Thor, or Wotan, or Zeus, etc.

"Let those little one come too me so that I might smash their heads against a wall", said Jesus

It is a curious turn of phrase to say "you want to become an atheist". Being an atheist is not a badge of honour nor is it a position or mental state one desires. On the other hand, what one may desire is to be more logical, rational and adopt a critical thinking and philosophcal and skeptical approach to life. This may be a long and tedious process in which you will learn:

1) Analytical and argumentative logic
2) Critical thinking skills
3) History
4) Philosophy
5) A great deal of science and the scientific method
6) Religions, myths and supersitions

Having learn all of the above (and of course some more) you would then be in a better position to evaluate all sorts of propositions put in front of your, religious or non-religious. For instance, a critical thinker should not be easily fooled my 419 scams for they should have learned the techniques for evaluating business and social propositions put to them. So also, I would expect a criticl thinker not to be easily taken in by the claims of the African (or otherwise) black magicians, new-ageist, astrologers, etc.

Armed with these skills you will be in a better position to see through the falsehoods and corruption that theistic religions are. There are some good resources online, but I suggest you start with this book: http://www.federacionatea.org/documentos/thecaseagainstgod.pdf.

Sharpen you mind and raise the standard of thinking by listening to freedomainradio

coolruler:
If this topic has been treated before, pls send the link. I would love to read it up.

Heard in Church last Sunday that as a true Christian, it is mandatory I fork over my WHOLE salary for this month(I just got a new job), to God. Pastor says its the Law of the Firstfruits.
Is this true? is that the way the Bible really laid it out? How then do I survive and meet all my obligations?
Your thoughts on this please.

Absolutely true. But it gets better - you are also required to give 10% of your salary each month so that the pastors can afford sharp suits, cars, luxury homes, etc. How is that for pleasing the Lord?