toba:


Pls note the bolded and try to correlate them with these

Exodus 20
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him



Theres no 'curse without a cause'

Toba,

If your brother, friend or neighbour worshipped a different god or no god at all, would you kill him?

toba:

God would never tell any1 to kill who he doesnt like. Cos who is man for him to hate another man or dislike another man? God is the creator of all mankind and the God of all flesh. Since the time of christ any form of Jungle justices ceased. God doesnt delight in burnt offerings Psalm 51 16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give [it]: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God [are] a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart,

Hello Toba, check these out:


Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.


(Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.


And with reference to what is happening in Nigeria at the moment

(Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.

InesQor:

Jagunlabi, are you answering for Huxley? 

Gen 22:2  He said, "Take your dear son Isaac whom you love and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains that I'll point out to you."

God had not yet told Abraham that he DOES NOT accept burnt offerings of human beings, that was why it was a VALID test of Abraham's faith. He wasn't going to allow Abraham kill the boy. It's a different ball game now, when God has clearly told us that he does not accept such, and has warned us to stay clear of such. He will not ask us to do such a thing as he asked Abraham.

Huxley, please answer the questions. Thanks.

Hello InesQor,

I was not talking specifically about sacrificing humans to God, although that is also something that God requires of his followers (see Lev 27: 29). I was talking about killing in generally. For instance, if God asked you to kill someone you did not like, would you do it?

1 Kings 22: 23;

22And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23[b]Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.[/b]
24But Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near, and smote Micaiah on the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?



2 Thessolonians 2: 11;

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11[b]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie[/b]:
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


Ezekiel 14: 9

8And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
9[b]And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.[/b]
10And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him;

[size=18pt]
Would you worship a LIAR?[/size]

Did Jesus ever kill anyone? Does Jesus plan on killing anyone in the future?

Turn your bible to 2 Samuel 12: 15 - 18;

14Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
15And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.
16David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth.
17And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them.
18And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead?


What sin or crime did this poor little child commit to be inflicted with illness and suffering from God for seven long and agonising days before dying?

noetic16:

did Jesus kill anyone? did His disciples kill anyone?

Yes, many millions of people. Did Jesus not kill all living souls (except Noah's family) in the Great Noah Flood? Have you never heard of Sodom and Gomorah? Jesus has killed many millions of people in the past and continues killing people today?

Supposing God asked your to kill members of you family, friends, or neighbours, would you obey God's orders?  Supposing you BELIEVED unflinchingly that you have heard from God and that there is no way you could be mistaken about it, would you carry out the acts of killing your family, friends or neighbours?

A god is any entity that is said to inhabit a supernatural realm and yet is capable of inter-acting with the natural realm. This is the entity I don't believe exists.

toba:

When Noetic likened u to an illiterate,i felt that was too harsh,but on d contrary u re one.Jesus we know is peace loving&gentle.He told his followers who cared to listen that if they lov him they will keep his commandments.Part of which is love those that hate u&be kind to every1.During his lifetime he practised what he preached.For u to link any xtian atrocities to him shows u re deluded

Hello toba,

Who said the following:

"And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomor'rah than for that town."
(Matthew 10:12-15 RSV)

"Then He began to upbraid the cities where most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent. 'Woe to you, Chorazin! woe to you, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of Judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the Day of Judgment for the land of Sodom than for you." (Matthew 11:20-24 RSV)

Are the above words calculated to inspire love, peace and kindness to fellow humans?

Why did the Christians in the Middle Ages launch the Crusades against the Moslems, killing many millions of people in the process? Was it not in keeping with Jesus violence-inspiring words? Were they not directly obeying Jesus's instructions?

toba:

How many pple were slayed before christ? If christ was bad why did he have to rebuke peter for using a sword? He ought to have allowed his disciples fought back when he was about to be arrested.Instead he voluntarily submitted himself

Look, we can only judge Jesus by his own words. Why did he say such stupid and violent a thing? What did he really mean? Don't you realise that because of these stupid and violent words, many millions of people who did not want to be Christians have been killed, tortured, mutilated, all in the name of Jesus because of such silly words.

Why did he have to say these silly and stupid words?

Luke 19: 27. The emblematic message of love from Jesus Christ, reads:

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

noetic16:

and whats your deduction from the highlighted verse?

That Jesus (if he existed) was a vile, reprehensible and evil man, to be avoided by all peace-loving people.

It bears reminding again and again and again:


Matthew 10:

32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

34 [size=16pt]Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.[/size]

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

41He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

42And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.




Luke 19: 27;

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Christian, do you worship your God? If you do, why do you? Why do you worship your God?


[size=15pt]Is it for fear that you might burn in hell if you do not worship him?[/size]


Apart from your God, what other entity or individual do you worship. And why? Is your worship of said entity the same as your worship of God?

What is the difference between LOVE of somebody/something and WORSHIP of that person/thing?

Do you love your husband/wife/children? Do you worship your husband/wife/children/friends?

This is a great time for all Christians to display their faith in their God. This is a time for prayers, prayers, prayers, and prayers. Prayers can heal all ills - so if all the Christian community go down on their knees and pray for this Great man of God, God would send something down, maybe the Holy Ghost, to sort things out for this most Holy of families.


Pray, and Pray, and Pray for the wondrous works and miracle of God.

Hello my Christian Friends,


Please, could you pray, using your FAITH in your God, for the atheists in Nairaland to become believers in your God?


What do you think would happen if you pray to your all-powerful God to make us (atheists) believers and worshipers of his Lordship?  Have you ever wished for your God to do something for your friends, family and strangers?  Can you show the same Godly concern to your atheists friends by praying that they become believers and followers/worshipers of your God?

We are looking forward to your prayers.

In Jesus name, Amen.

Tonye-t:

Huxley,

It is of importance you understand that the way of the light is to follow the teachings and examples of Christ in faith. When we do so, we see and experience the same thing as Christ did in the scriptures.

Recall, we are not Jesus Christ, we are the followers of Jesus Christ, and as such it means WE ARE CONSTANTLY LEARNING the ways of Jesus Christ and his mighty acts. We may not get it all at first but with time in his word and constant faith we will do it.

The disciples who witnessed Jesus in the flesh, who saw all the mighty deeds he performed still made their own mistakes/gaffes when cases similar to what Christ did was brought to them.

Matt 17:15-21

15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is epileptic, and suffereth grievously; for oft-times he falleth into the fire, and off-times into the water.

16[b] And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him [/b] . . .

19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast it out?
20 And he saith unto them, Because of your little faith: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

21(But this kind goeth not out save by prayer and fasting .)
ASV
You see even the disciples could not even perform as expected even though they dined and wined with the Great Christ himself.

What is worth noting is that after the gaffes, Jesus christ came in and taught them how they ought to get result the next time it comes. These MOGs are not God, they are men with limitations who still suffer doubts too. hence they faulter or will i say perform little when faced with great challenges. Why? because they are still learning and growing in the grace of Jesus' might.

When i believe in the power of Christ i can heal all many of sickness but not immediately, i must first learn to grow in the grace.

Hello Tonye-t, pardon me, but your thinking is all back-to-front and lobe-sided. You are asking me to believe that your Jesus Christ is powerful, wonderful, and awesome - and that having faith in him will empower me to achieve anything possible. But I ask you - Where is the evidence that Jesus is powerful, and that faith in him will empower? Where is the evidence?

Can you show me anything today that has been achieved through FAITH in Jesus, and that could not have been achieved otherwise?


We need to establish this prior fact first before I would consider believing in your Jesus. Let me give you a view of my perspective - Do you believe Mohammed is the prophetic of God? Do you have any evidence for the position you take with respect to Mohammed?

mazaje:

^^
Huxley, How have you been? Hope you are good out there. . . . .

Hello Mazeje, Am fine and doing good. How about you? I see you have been putting some sense into our theistic friends here on NL. More grease to your elbow.

Hello,

How often do event like the ones I listed above (regrowing of lost limbs, raising of the long dead, healing of the sick, etc) happen, solely as a result of petitionary prayers? I submit that these NEVER happen. The fact that these things NEVER happen - does that suggest that there are NO christians with faith at all in the world? And that all their claims and boasts of having faith is all self-congratulatory deception and delusion?


A futher question - Can anyone name anything (with permanent and/or tangible physical results) that cannot be done except through FAITH?

The Christian god said, in Matthew 17: 20;

[size=16pt]"I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you"[/size]

In the light of the above affirming and encouraging words fron god, which of the following could be accomplished by those Christians that have FAITH in their god?


1) Heal the sick through faithful petitionary prayers to God.

2) Achieve material wealth and success (like many Christian evangelical ministers, pastors, preachers) through prayers to God.

3) Summary eradication of poverty and diseases in the world.

4) Pray for an amputated leg to regrow

5) Pray for a person who has been dead 200 years to come back to life.

6) Pray for Mount Everest to move to the North pole.

7) Pray for an up-turned glass to become filled with potable water without human intervention.



Remember, God said that with faith as small as a mustard seed, anything is possible. So which of the above acts is possible?

davidylan:

its what islamic fundamentalists understand. I say continue shooting them.

The only thing you got wrong was that you did not conclude your comment with "In the name of Jeeeeesssussss, Amen"

How would the world have been materially and morally different from what it is today had Jesus not come down on earth? Is there anything thing (material or moral) on earth that could not have been without Jesus?

Discuss!

Mavenb0x:

Huxley, the verses (see my last post above) clearly show that John meant "there are sins that INVOLVE death in the process of carrying out the sin". It speaks here of a physical death, because when one dies physically while sinning it will be impossible to repent. Since the time Christ rose from the dead and preached to the dead, giving them a final chance, forgiveness has become a luxury only available to those with the license of physical life. After Christ rose, anyone who dies in his sin will not have another chance.

All sin lead to spiritual death. A classical sin which leads to physical death is suicide. Or maybe cursing the Holy Spirit, thus severing your possible connection to God and escaping the arms of mercy; physical death will occur quickly. Like it did with Herod in Acts. If you are in a tree & you saw off the branch you are sitting on, wont gravity break your bones?

Hello,  thanks for your response.  But I seem to be getting confused about the various types of "deaths" mentioned in 1 John 5: 16 - 17.  Is he always talking about physical bodily death, or does he also refer to "spiritual" death?  Let's look at the verses again:

16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.


In verse 16, the first use of the word "death" - does this mean an immediate physical death as in the act of sinning, or immediately after sinning?  So if you see your brother/sister fornicating, theiving, lying, from which they do not die, you should pray and god will give them "life".  Is this physical life or is it spiritual life? Why would John refer to physical death and spiritual life in the same context?  It would make more sense if this "death" is a spritual death, from which prayers would restore spiritual "life".  Or similarly, if John meant physical "death", it would make more sense if the "life" was a physical "life", rather than a spiritual "life".

Now, consider the following scenario.  Supposing one of these brothers were involved in some form of armed robbery and they were shot and seriously injured.  If he prays and repent, would God give him life?

It makes more sense if this death is interpreted as as spiritual death in verses 16 & 17, as the concept of sin does not normally immediately put the health and life of the sinner at physical risk.    Apart from suicide, which you mention (and which I don't regard as a sin or offense, for many other reasons), can you think of any sins that immediately threaten the physical life of the sinner and from which they could die?  If this were so, there would be nobody on earth right now.

What is/are the sin(s) that lead to death?, as John declares in verse 16.  If John meant physical death and taking suicide as an example of such a sin  - then if you see your brother committing suicide, there is really no need for him to pray as he will be dead anyway.  So if this really was meant as physical death, then the entirety of verses 16 & 17 is hardly worth mentioning.  It is a bit like saying "Do not give food to the dead".   It only become worthy of mention if death is meant in a spritual sense in verses 16&17.

On the question of blasphemy - I have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit many many times, and I right now CURSE the Holy spirit.  What kind of death shall I expect?  And will it be immediate?

When will the lord kill this pastor?

Mavenb0x:

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother [believer] committing a sin that does not [lead to] death (the extinguishing of life), he will pray and [God] will give him life [yes, He will grant life to all those whose sin is not one leading to death]. There is a sin [that leads] to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
1Jn 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin which does not [involve] death [that may be repented of and forgiven].

Let him who has eyes understand.

Great response - so you OK with the doctrine that there are some sins that do not lead to death, are you?

Now, how does one distincguish which sins lead to death from sins that do not lead to death? Which of the following sins do NOT lead to death?

1) Murder
2) Ethnic cleasing
3) Telling a lie and other forms of deception
4) Adultery and fornication
5) Cursing one's parents
6) Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit
7) Worshiping other gods
8.) Theft and robbery
9) Covetting your friends goods
10) glutony and greed

[size=14pt]Let those who have understanding, please respond.
[/size]

Pastor AIO:

Okay, let me put it like this.

Because I believe that there is a natural flow to events in the world,

and I believe that I am also able to act outside of this natural flow (I call it Art, or Artifice),

and in fact I believe that many people act outside or contrary to this natural flow (What I call a contrivance) thus causing all manner of distress for themselves,

I consider it very important that I am aware of the flow, tuned in to it, and act in accord with it.

This is what I mean when I say that I try to eschew all contrivances from my actions.

OK, assuming such a natural flow exists - what aspects of your day-2-day life are you compelled or guided to do as a direct result of this natural flow. And can you envisage other people not being able to act like you because they do not believe in this natural flow?

Pastor AIO:

Huxley, sorry for the delay, yesterday was a tough day. This is a big topic that I'd like to take time with but alas I'm short of time at the moment.

For starters I would say that due to my religious practice I seek to eschew all contrivances from my actions. In other words I try not to do any thing by-force by-force. I believe in a natural flow to events that it is best that I flow with rather than strive against.

Hello Pastor AIO,

Sorry - I just did not know what to make of your response above. What do you mean by "I seek to eschew all contrivances from my actions"? Please can you make that more concrete?

http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Home/5505590-146/story.csp


A Federal High Court sitting in Lagos, on Thursday, December 31, granted a Mareva injunction, freezing local and international assets of Erastus Akingbola, the former Managing Director of Intercontinental Bank PLC, for total offences amounting to the tune of N346,185,841,243.75 and £1,085,515.00.

The information was contained in a communiqué from the Central Bank of Nigeria, made available to NEXT, yesterday.

The Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) had filed an application, under sections 6 (D), 7(2), 24(11), 26(1), 28 and 34(1) of the EFCC Act 2004, seeking, among others, the hearing of the Originating Motion within the shortest possible time to prevent Mr. Akingbola from dissipating the assets.

The U.S. legal definitions website, explains that a Mareva injunction is a type of court order “of interlocutory relief designed to freeze the assets of a defendant, in appropriate circumstances, pending determination of a plaintiff’s claim. Mareva injunctions are often used to prevent a defendant from transferring assets out of the Court’s jurisdiction as soon as a claim is served, in order to frustrate enforcement of any ensuing judgment”.

Intercontinental Bank PLC had obtained similar injunction from the High Court of Justice, Queen’s Bench Division, Commercial Court, London, dated December 24, 2009, to freeze Mr. Akingbola’s assets up to the tune of £10,500,00.00.

London prohibition

That prohibition included the following assets, in particular: the £8,540,134.58 and £1,300,000.00 which were transferred to Fuglers Solicitors; any money held in an account of Fuglers Solicitors; the property on 26, Chester Terrace, London, NW1 4NB; the property on 65, Grove End Road, London, NW8 9NH; the property on 8, Connaught Street, London, W2 2AH.

Mr. Akingbola’s travails started on August 14 when the Central Bank of Nigeria sacked him, along with four other bank chiefs, on accounts of what the CBN calls excessively high level of non-performing loans in the five banks.
http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Home/5505590-146/story.csp



This was attributed to poor corporate governance practices, lax credit administration processes and the absence or non-adherence to the bank’s credit risk management practices and having acted in a manner detrimental to the interest of their depositors and creditors. Ever since the sack, Mr. Akingbola is alleged to be taking solace in London.

On December 17, 2009, a Lagos High Court dismissed a N200 billion suit instituted against the EFCC by four companies, allegedly owned by Mr. Akingbola. The companies – Tropics Finance and Investment Company Limited; Tropics Properties Limited; Tropics Securities Limited and Tropics Holding Limited – had filed the suit before Morenike Obadina of the high court, alleging a violation of their fundamental rights during an investigation conducted by the commission into the company’s operations. They consequently asked for N50 billion each in damages.

Mr. Akingbola is also facing charges that include conspiracy to grant unsecured credit facilities, conspiracy to manipulate share prices, reckless consideration of credit facilities without adequate security and failure to present monthly statement of account to the Central Bank, among other charges.

The assets on which the order was granted include, but are not limited to: shares held in listed companies in Nigeria, including, but not limited to, Intercontinental Bank Plc and Access Bank Plc, among others; shares held in other companies in Nigeria including, but not limited to, Tropics Securities Limited; Tropics Property Limited; Tropics Holdings Limited; Summit Finance Company Limited; Tropics Finance & Investments Company Limited; Yankuri Nigeria Limited; Regal Investment Nigeria Limited and Bankinson Nigeria Limited.

http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Home/5505590-146/story.csp

toba:

Roman6:23 WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH CHRIST JESUS.
OP. 1john5:17:ALL UNRIGHTEOUS IS SIN. Relate it to d above.If u fornicate,kill,hate your neighbour,snatch boy friend/girl friend, All na sin&d wages is death.So may God help us&save our soul

No, for some of these sins (like adultery and fornication) the wages is not death as clearly stated in 1 John 5: 17 - (and there is sin that does NOT lead to death.).

mabsam:

What death do u think d Bible is referring to? From my little knowledge that death means eternal burning in hell, so truly all sins lead to death.

SO "[b]ALL [/b]sins lead to death"? But that is not what 1 John 5: 17 says. How do you reconcile that?

1 John 5: 17, says;

[size=16pt]All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does NOT lead to death. [/size]


So choose your sins wisely.