₦airaland Forum

haibe: so according to your definition of change, we will change from physical body to an advanced physical body or mortal body to advanced mortal body?

mortal body to immortal.

haibe: Any ressurection before Jesus ressurected is not a ressurection to eternal life, they didn't put on immortality and so they died again but the ressurection of the saints is to eternal life, we are raised immortals from the dead and incorruptible just like Jesus, not in a physical body but in a spiritual body.


Christ is the first fruit of ressurection to eternal life

well the simple thing you dont get is that resurrection of something is that same thing that was dead coming back alive. resurrection of the saint is as the one that happened to lazarus but it did not stop there it went further by transformation of the body.

lazarus same body that died come to life
jesus same body that died come to life.

You and Jman should research if spirit have body. and come with the answer.

haibe: If as a christian you can't differentiate between mere ressurection and ressurection of the saints at Christ second coming, then you have a problem.

once again that passage says "WE WILL BE CHANGED" not that a body will remain and a spirit will pop up, that one na your ghost mythology.

we will be changed into a spiritual body, if you don't understand this simple scripture after all this explanations, then even if Jesus himself come to teach you, you will never understand.

it is becoming funny. so what is the difference between resurrection of the saint and resurrection?

dont you know what change is? when you get from boy to man that is change. it is still the baby that went from a baby to a boy to a man. he changed. he now have goatee and other things he never had before.

we will be change does not mean that our body will be dropped and die then spirit being will be created as us. learn how to reason.

haibe: @itsfact you have superficial knowledge of the scriptures .

how can you be comparing the ressurection of lazarus with the ressurection of the saints at Christ second coming?

the poverty in knowledge you posess is beyond me, I don't just get how someone can be so dull like you.

it is to teach you what resurrection is. there is no comparison. all the accounts of resurrection it says something that was dead came back to life. i mean same body that was dead not the body remains dead and a spirit being just pop out saying to be you.

JMAN05: the resurrection of lizarus is not the type the saints are destined to have. lizarus died afterward, the saints wont die again when the reveive the resurrection to which they are destined to have in heaven. Jesus was the first who had such resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:23 KJV
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.




mark the word " we shall be changed". you are not puting something into your corrupted body to make it incorruptible.

You will just change. when they put on immortality and incorruptibility, that there body will change to a spirit body. no human eye will see them again.

meaning that they will drop the physical body and put in or being raised in a spiritual one.



those people above didnt attain the resurrection the saints are destined to have.

Jesus was the first to be resurrected to such.

resurretion is the act of arising from the dead and becoming alive again. the main point in this definition is "becoming alive again".

whether the person is alive in the spirit body or physical body, it is still resurrection. the emphases is not on the body with which he died but on the person who died.

Yes their resurrection is not our hope. I am replying to haibe who says how will jesus raise in a physical body after dying in a physical body
so the people who jesus raise did they die in what body? and when jesus raise then what body did they have? is it not same physical body?

the highlighted or bold i made out of your post show how confuse you are.
1: you said you are not putting on something, then you said you are putting on something in the very same post.

if the body dies and doesnt not comeback to life how is it resurrection?

1 Corninthians 15:44-46 which reads as follows in the New World Translation: "It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. It is even so written: " The first man Adam became a living soul." The last Adam became a life giving spirit. Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual." The whole point of 1 Corninthians 15:35-58 is that the natural body will be changed and raised up a powerful supernatural body. It is not as though what will be raised will be distinct from the physical body, rather, there will be a continuity. For example, verses 42-44 state how it (the body, not something else) will be raised up. It is sown a perishable, dishonorable, weak, and natural body. It (the same body) is raised up an imperishable, glorious, powerful, spiritual body. Verses 53-54 also states that the perishable mortal body will "put on" imperishability and immortality. By putting something on you are adding to what you already have.

haibe: lol so you think God will ressurecte us as a disembodied spirit like ghost

Mr man why are you always showing that you have superficial knowledge and wisdom,?


God will ressurect every saint in a spiritual body like that of angels, haven't you read that in the bible? lol

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a
spiritual body. There is a natural body,
and there is a spiritual body."

look at this guy, so because I said bodily you just conclude I meant physical body and not spiritual body??

you are the worst loafer I have met on nairaland.

just be ashamed of your self abeg.

i never said God will resurrect us as a spirit not to talk of Ghost. you have been caught and you want to use this rubbish you post to change the topic.

haibe: this is the second on you quoted, I said "I never said God will ressurect us as a disembodied spirit or your ghost like creature" but that God will ressurect us in a spiritual body



Now in order to rule out you unintelligence, show me how this post contradicts the first.

haibe:

This question is not for me, i never said God will resurrect us as a disembodied spirit or your 'ghost-like' creature.

God will resurrect us bodily like he resurrected Jesus but in a glorified, immortal, incorruptible, spiritual body.

what does resurrect bodily means?

o guy i tire for you kpatakpata

haibe: what is the difference between ressurection in a spiritual body and ressurection as a spirit being?

1: spirit dont have flesh and bones. Jesus told you so.
2: resurrection means same thing that died rise again.

how does spiritual body means the body is a spirit?
why did the bible says the corruptible body will put on incorruptible? and the mortal body will put on immortal? What does put on means?

haibe: you are only showing how unintelligent you are, can't you see the two quotes you quoted are in agreement.

Jesus didn't ressurect as a spirit (what you call ghost or dead man apparition)but a spirit being like the angels

is it that you are dull to comprehend the difference or what?

you said he resurrected bodily. you are a liar. mind you. i know the difference between spirit beings and ghost.
you admit that jesus was raise bodily. stop lying

haibe: okay I understand that you misunderstood us, a disembodied spirit (ghost) is different from a spirit being like angels.

do you get the difference now?

SMH. tell me what i dont know.

haibe: where did I say I do not believe that Jesus ressurected as a spirit creature, please dont quote me wrong I only said Jesus did not resurrect as a spirit(what you call ghost), Jesus ressurected as a spirit being not a spirit (as in ghost).

you accused the jw of preaching that Jesus ressurected a spirit (ghost) and that is why I responded saying Jesus resurected bodily as a spiritual being not physical or ghost like form.

this is where i start to call you a liar.
see what you post

haibe:

This question is not for me, i never said God will resurrect us as a disembodied spirit or your 'ghost-like' creature.

God will resurrect us bodily like he resurrected Jesus but in a glorified, immortal, incorruptible, spiritual body.

JMAN05: Please i humbly demand a prove of the bolded.

quote when i said the bolded. am waiting...

read that post again and understand it. I said, jman says jesus was a ghost because of. in that same post the reason was giving.

but

you people say when some dies and comes back as a spirit it is a ghost that ghost dont exist. but you agree Jesus died and come back as a spirit creatures.
the angels never died and become spirits. they are spirit from creation. Jesus died as a human and you and jman says he came back as a spirit creature which almost means you are saying jesus is a ghost since you say he is a spirit of and was human before and died.

haibe: you should be sorry for yourself, how would you think Jesus would resurrect in a physical body after dieing in that same physical body, haven't you read that we will be changed at the ressurection, why then are you contradicting the scriptures?

1 Corinthians15:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED,
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must PUT ON IMMORTALITY.

so you can see how absurd your logic is, if we are to resurrect in that same physical/mortal/corruptible body we die in, how then would we enter the kingdom of God? and how can you reconcile it with the verses above?

Smh!! haven't you heard that flesh and blood cannot enter into the kingdom of God?

I am really sorry for you.

are you an olodo? did Lazarus resurrect from the same body he died on? did jesus get him a new body when he died? are you crazy?

when the bible says corruptible will put on incorruptible is it not saying our body will put up or add something better to it? i mean the body we already have. ok you mean to say God will kill us and raise us up as a spirit? how is that a body putting on something?

you better learn english my friend.

Jesus raised the widow's son at Nain (Luke 7:11-17), Jairus' daughter (Matthew 9:18-26; Mark 5:21-43; Luke 8:40-56), and Lazarus (John 11:1-44).

are this people raise in another body?
check meaning of resurrection it is when something dies and that same thing rise again.

haibe: Quote: Well i have no problem about the bodily
resurrection of christ, i don't know about
the Jw's belief on this.
The problem i have is that human beings have
immortal soul/spirits that can exist as a
separate entity from their body and so can
go to heaven or hell immediately after
death, this is very absurd and unscriptural.


The above was my response to you when you accused the jehovah witness of teaching that Jesus resurrected in a spirit/ghost-like form

I then said Jesus resurrected bodily in a spiritual body and not a ghost-like form.

It was later that jman came to clearify that he never said Jesus resurrected in a ghost-like form.

So you were the one who mis-interpreted the jehovah witness saying they teach that Jesus resurrected in a spirit/ghost-like form and so i countered that saying Jesus resurrected in a spiritual body and not a spirit(ghost-like) form.

1 my first banta with jman was that he said Jesus resurrect as a spirit creature which is like angels and you said you dont believe jesus resurrected as a spirit creature that you believe he resurrected bodily with a glorified spiritual body.

it was later when you people say there is no such thing as dead person spirit coming and walking on earth that i banta jman again that he says jesus resurrected as a ghost. why? because if you Jesus was dead then he came back as a spirit creature then you are also saying he came back as a ghost by your definition.

you said Ghost is when a dead person spirit appears. and jman says Jesus died, his body was disposed by God then his spirit come to the disciples. by your definition of Ghost is that not what it is?

haibe: Mr man when i say Jesus resurrected bodily i don't mean in a physical body but in a spiritual body, i said that so you guys won't think he resurrected in a ghost-like or disembodied spirit.

Jesus resurrected bodily but not in a physical body, its in a spiritual body and spiritual body is not a ghost-like body/disembodied spirit, do you get it now?

I feel sorry for you.

haibe: Like i always say, it is the poor choice of words you are using, what Jesus meant as spirit in that verse is actually ghost today, Jesus was telling his disciples he wasn't a ghost(disembodied spirit of the dead).

Yes jman is right, Jesus was actually a spirit when he resurrected but its not the kind of spirit you and ravgach believe in, its not a disembodied spirit like ghost, Jesus resurrected a spirit being like angels, etc.

Jesus did not resurrect in a physical body, he resurrected in a spiritual body, a spiritual body is not a 'disembodied spirit like ghost', a spiritual body is the body spiritual beings have.

When we die, it is in a physical body but we resurrect in a spiritual body, like the body of angels, that's why Jesus compared us with angels when we resurrect.

"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are giving in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven" (Mattew 22:30)

Now the question is: do the angels of God have a physical body? The answer is No!! They can only materialise into physical body but they actually have a spiritual body.

It is this same spiritual body Jesus resurrected in but materialised into physical body in order to show himself to his disciples, it is this same spiritual body the saints will resurrect in, not a physical body like you think Jesus resurrected in.

So the spirit Jesus was talking about is different from the spirit jman is talking about, Jesus was saying he wasn't a spirit(ghost) while jman is saying Jesus is a spirit(spiritual being) not 'disembodied spirit like ghost', so you can see he isn't saying Jesus is lying?

The problem is that you are still holding on to the word spirit in that passage instead of seeing it as ghost, spirit was used in that passage of the KJV because it was similar with ghost in archaic englsih, e.g holy ghost, holy spirit but using holy ghost in modern english is wrong because the word ghost has come to mean something different today, so saying holy ghost will mean you are referring to a dead person, the right word to use is holy spirit.

Until you differentiate between ghost(disembodied spirit of the dead appearing to the living) and spirit(a supernatural being like angels) in this discourse, you would still be having this problem you are having.

the words above is in conflict with the words below.

haibe: The bible said the bodies of those saints arosed and you are telling me this isn't resurrection? Then what is it?

How on earth will you think after they arosed, their body left back to the grave and their spirit went to heaven? Ur pathetic interpretation again.

Where in the old testament did the bible say when the saints died they went to garden of eden or an invisible paradise? What then is the essence of the new jerusalem?

oh see, another conflict

haibe: This question is not for me, i never said God will resurrect us as a disembodied spirit or your 'ghost-like' creature.

God will resurrect us bodily like he resurrected Jesus but in a glorified, immortal, incorruptible, spiritual body.

oh look another

haibe: Well i have no problem about the bodily resurrection of christ, i don't know about the Jw's belief on this.

The problem i have is that human beings have immortal soul/spirits that can exist as a separate entity from their body and so can go to heaven or hell immediately after death, this is very absurd and unscriptural.

you just argue isnt it? you dont even have a specific beliefs. today you beliefs is A tomorrow it is B and next tomorrow it is A and B.

later you will use assumption to back up your claim that Jesus later told them he is not a spirit.

give me one Good reason why i should continue?

JMAN05: no. your words above showed that you misunderstood what i am saying, hence the clerification. I never said Jesus was lying, but you said i did.

or firstly i asked was Jesus lying when he says he is not a spirit you said no but you go on and insist he is a spirit. What does that mean? It means you are saying Jesus was lying that he is not a spirit when he.

JMAN05: so after reading that definition. even the first definition, you conclude that apparition is equal to ghost? oh! boy...., where did you go to school?

twisting my words don't help you.

haibe: Re-read my post

Yes or no. You call it their misconceptions if Jesus described what their misconceptions is then he is adding to it. He could have just said such things dont exist.

haibe: Jesus wasn't adding to any lie, there was no lie, the disciples only had a mis-conception, generally people believe in certain things which to them is true but is actually not true.

The disciples thought Jesus was still dead and his disembodied spirit(ghost) appeared to them but Jesus made them know that he wasn't a disembodied spirit of a dead man(ghost), but he was alive not dead, he then went further to tell them that he wasn't a disembodied spirit of the dead(ghost) because a disembodied spirit of the dead(ghost) does not have flesh and bones according to such believe.

How is he lieing?

I have told you to show me where the disembodied spirit of a dead man(ghost) appeared to someone and you are still mentioning samuel after admitting it wasn't actually samuel that saul perceived.

No place in the bible did a disembodied spirit of a dead man(ghost) appear to anybody because they don't exist, the dead are in the grave.

The mythology of ghost is that the real dead person's disembodied spirit awakes to interact with the living, this is never possible giving the state of the dead, if it is a devil impersonating a dead man then it is not a ghost, it is that devil.

so Jesus was adding to their misconceptions?

haibe: Jesus wasn't adding to any lie, there was no lie, the disciples only had a mis-conception, generally people believe in certain things which to them is true but is actually not true.

The disciples thought Jesus was still dead and his disembodied spirit(ghost) appeared to them but Jesus made them know that he wasn't a disembodied spirit of a dead man(ghost), but he was alive not dead, he then went further to tell them that he wasn't a disembodied spirit of the dead(ghost) because a disembodied spirit of the dead(ghost) does not have flesh and bones according to such believe.

How is he lieing?

I have told you to show me where the disembodied spirit of a dead man(ghost) appeared to someone and you are still mentioning samuel after admitting it wasn't actually samuel that saul perceived.

No place in the bible did a disembodied spirit of a dead man(ghost) appear to anybody because they don't exist, the dead are in the grave.

The mythology of ghost is that the real dead person's disembodied spirit awakes to interact with the living, this is never possible giving the state of the dead, if it is a devil impersonating a dead man then it is not a ghost, it is that devil.

so Jesus was adding to their misconceptions?

Lordlexyy: What is too hard for haibe to understand. 1.The ghost wasn't samuel but a demon evoked to deceive soul. 2. Though the bible said soul spoke to samuel, but it is apparent that the woman was the medium or channel of communication btw the both parties. It's normal for the bible to say soul talked to samuel since it the occation involves the two of them. But it is common knowledge that the woman was the medium btw them. @itsfact, i think you are right.

He is persistent. The man go come with question that has been answered

haibe: so Jesus told them he wasn't a ghost apparition and said ghosts don't have flesh and blones, now does that mean dead can really appear to the living?

am not talking of demon.

was Jesus adding to the lie that ghost exist when he describe it instead of telling them ghost don't exist.

what does it mean for you?

haibe: okay which of the definition did Jesus mean by ghost?

when they saw Jesus in the room. They recognize him but thought he was a spirit. So they don't think he was an angel. They think it is an apparition of ghost.

haibe: okay so why then do you say ghosts actually exist.

what is your definition of ghost as used by Jesus, a spirit being like angels, demons or an apparition of the dead.

i say ghost exist because demons pose as dead persons by haunting you or trying to deceive you. It happens.

see some definition of ghost and choose how you make use of them.

ghost (gst)
n.
1. The spirit of a dead person, especially one believed to appear in bodily likeness to living persons or to haunt former habitats.

2. The center of spiritual life; the soul.

3. A demon or spirit.

4. A returning or haunting memory or image.

5.
a. A slight or faint trace: just a ghost of a smile.

b. The tiniest bit: not a ghost of a chance.

6. A faint, false image, as:
a. A secondary image on a television or radar screen caused by reflected waves.

b. A displaced image in a photograph caused by the optical system of the camera.

c. A false spectral line caused by imperfections in the diffraction grating.

d. A displaced image in a mirror caused by reflection from the front of the glass.

7. Informal A ghostwriter.

8.
a. A nonexistent publication listed in bibliographies.

b. A fictitious employee or business.

9. Physiology A red blood cell having no hemoglobin.

haibe: okay so have you agreed that wasn't actually samuel ghost?

have you been reading my post? From the very time we start to talk about this i keep saying it was not Samuel that the devil mimmic Samuel. You they give me headache

haibe: so if a demon takes the form of a dead person, am I talking to that dead person actually? NO saul wasnt talking to samuel, you just don't want to admit mistakes, ghosts do not exist, that person wasn't samuel at all, samuel was dead.

you are saying same thing i am saying. But the bible says Samuel told him this and Saul said that to Samuel.

the devil was the spirit. So if you ask Saul who are you talking with. He will say Samuel.

haibe: can you answer please or are you admitting you don't know what ghost is and you say it exist and you don't know what it is?? lol.

i cant be bothered. Answered it already

try to read peoples comment

haibe: yes but where did the bible say saul TALKED with samuel, you must be a story writer oo, lol. you live question to answer something else.

answer is Yes

Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me." When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. . . . And the woman said to Saul, "I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth." So he said to her, "What is his form?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle." And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down. Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

"And Saul answered, 'I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me . . . ' Then Samuelsaid: "So why do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy? And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. . . ." " (1Samuel 28:5-9, 11-19, NKJV

the bible says Samuel says. It calls what the woman bring for Saul Samuel. Why? Because Saul thinks it is Samuel she brings.

notice how i call the font.

haibe: this is where you said saul TALKED to samuel.

you my man is confused

Show me where i talk am say perceive means talk to?