₦airaland Forum

[quote author=chieveboy post=127783877]

I did, you simply missed it. Amber gives birth to jealousy and envy which are sisters.

Wrong! Anger does not always give birth to jealousy. It depends on the circumstances. It is right to be angry against evil or even against things that are wrong.
A parent can be justifiably angry with an incorrigible and wayward child. It's that your conclusive generalization for me. You didn't answer my questions regarding what your position would be if you were the father of a child who honours another father, or the husband of a woman being cuddled by another man, or even the father of a child under attack by an assailant. You've been evasive.

These emotions can be either right or wrong. It depends on how and why they are unleashed.

They are not, and here goes the whitewashing again. Anger never produces any good. It is a destructive force. It springs from the negative polarity of the life force.

It's a destructive force of cause. But destruction is not always evil. If it destroys wickedness and evil, it does a good job. It does a bad job if it destroys the good. There are always things to be preserved, things to build, and things to destroy. What do you do to the things you have inside your dustbin, don't you destroy them? Is their destruction evil? You're making me believe that Eckankar wants to assume that all things are perfect and that there are no anomalies at all. If that's the case it's pure deception. In this physical world, anomalies exist, and there are emotions put in place by God that motivate people to correct anomalies. Infact, we destroy forests and all obstacles to make way for our farmlands, roads and buildings. Let's embrace balance when philosophizing. Destruction is not always evil.

Maybe I should talk physics so you will understand. The negative pole of anything came only function as one. If it produces positive charges, then it's not negative bit positive. It cannot be the two at once.

And by physics, I'll want you to understand that the interworking of both positive and negative charges is what produces useful effects. Positive poles or positive charges are useless alone because they can't produce anything. The same applies to the negative poles and charges. All emotions have their rightful uses in our world. The excessive or abusive use of them is what causes a problem. That's why the Bible says "Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger. Ephesians 4:26.

The Eckankar philosophy about Anger, Hate and Jealousy is not a balanced position without due respect to context .

chieveboy:
In Eckankar, we know that the the Lord of the negative worlds tests souls via five deadly passions:

Anger
Attachment
Greed
Lust
Vanity

When you wander into the heavens and find any being who exhibits any of the above, know that you are before Satan or It's agent. It's very simple. Infact, the Lord of the lower worlds tests souls using one or all of the above negative virtues.

There is no excuse whatsoever for exhibiting any of the above, and Paul was spot-on about it. It was funny when you tried to white-wash jealousy and anger just so you can paint black white.

God or anyone has no business whatsoever with any of those negative traits. You can only fool people with the title "God" "Pastor" "believer", etc, your fruits however exposes who and what you really are.

This is what sets Eckankar apart!

I wasn't doing any whitewashing. You already got my point, that's why you didn't care to answer the questions raised.

Those things are like money, you can use it to do both good and evil. So, without context, you cannot really categorize those forces. If you're talking of anger, hate, envy and jealousy in terms of habitual manifestations, then, we're on the same page. Anyone who is habitually angry, envious, jealous or hateful is evil. The Almighty God does not personify those evil traits. He's love personified and all His children are commanded to be like Him. Are you telling me that you never get angry? There's nothing you hate in life (You don't hate murder, infidelity, cheating, etc) ? You'll not be jealous of your wife if you see another man cuddle her? You can't paint these forces any colour without talking of context except you're referring to habitual manifestations and tendencies.

[quote author=chieveboy post=127780398]

For it's own reasons, Christians and Orthodox religion teach themselves that those who don't believe in their Prophet are children of the devil (Gods enemies). That God is burning them up for that. If anything, all you have been telling me since is that God is my enemy and I his.

This is actually a wrong understanding of Christian doctrines.

God loves the world, and in demonstration of that love, He sent His Son to die for the world.

The reason is that Satan's presence in the world works to make man sinful. God is not just God, He's also the Judge of the universe. A judge doesn't cast a convict to prison because he hates him, he does it because that is the consequence of breaking the law. Sin is the breaking of the law.

God must judge the world but He has passed the judgement of every man on His Son. Those who reject that sacrifice made by God's Son automatically attract the judgement to themselves instead of passing it on to God's son. Hell was not created for man. It was created for unrepentant Satan. But those who chose Satan rather than God, have all rights in the universe to share the same fate with him. God would not continue watching His world being in chaos till infinity. God must put an end to this chaos some day, and judge the cause of the chaos (Satan), and those who reject the sacrifice of gods Son in preference for God's judgement. God is love, and with Him there's no darkness at all.

The bolded above got me laughing

All in the name of protecting the image of Lord Two-head (God of orthodox religion ), you invariably said Anger, Hate, Jealousy, Envy are positive forces. At this juncture, o really want you to go beyond trying to win arguments and really contemplate things out...

Please be corrected.

I never said Anger, Hate, Envy and Jealousy are positive forces. Rather they are two sided things. With the exception of envy which is purely evil and condemnnable, Anger, Hate and Jealousy are defined.

Except you want to deceive yourself, do you hate armed robbery or love it? Does your hatred for armed robbery make you evil? In the same vein, if you're a father, would you not be jealous if your son rejects your fatherly provisions and embraces that of another man and calls him his father? Won't your heart yearn for your son? Does that jealousy over your beloved son make you evil? If you angrily defend your son against an attacker does that anger make you evil? You can't class these things as negative without presenting a context.

Anger, hate and jealousy can only be defined within their subjective contexts. It's an aberration to classify them as purely negative. Otherwise, I'll expect you not to be angry at your son's attacker. Instead, while the fellow is attacking him, you cuddle the attacker in love while your son suffers because love is all you have.

I will leave you with a screenshot of what Paul said about Love which was compiled in what is known as the Christian Bible below.

Know that the rule doesn't change for anyone. Hate is hate, anger is anger, Jealousy is Jealousy even for any being that claims it is God. By the fruits, you can know what is what, a good tree does not produce bad fruits.

Cheers.

What Paul said is within a defined context of love. Love isn't jealous when there's no reason for jealousy. That's evil. But if I start cuddling your wife right in front of you, you'll rise in Jealousy to the occasion. If I'm doing that to any other woman with whom you're not in love, you wouldn't be jealous, and if you are, then, you're evil.

I hope you got the points? Cheers my brother.

[quote author=chieveboy post=127779896][/quote]Please read me again.

God has no enemies but the enemies of man are God's enemies because God loves man. I never said or implied that man is one of God's enemies.

Yeah, the Almighty God can be angry because He am hates evil and the perpetrators thereof. Or are you saying that the Eckankar deity loves evil? The Almighty God is a jealous God because He loves. When you truly love someone, you can become jealous when that same someone gives the attention and service meant for you to another.

Anger, Jealousy, Envy, Regret and Hate are not negative in themselves. It all depends on the source and the direction of these traits. While it is a positive trait to be angry at evil, it is not a positive trait to be angry for nothing. These traits move us to correct the things that are wrong. God hates sin for instability but He loves the sinner. Does the Eckankar deity love sin? Or he protends as if Sin does not exist?

Modified:

Our attention is not on Satan and demons as Christians. Christ already made us victorious over them. But in liberating the captives of Satan, we exercise dominion.

chieveboy:
We live as Gods while on earth. That's why we ditched Christianity all together and it's counting of time.

We don't worship the God who has enemies and adversaries (Satan). We follow the Supreme Deity.

As you can see, Jehovah is late

Yeah, we live as Gods while on earth. We exercise authority over Satan and his demons.

God has no enemies. All things are the works of His hands. Satan became the enemy of God only because he's the enemy of man. God loves man, and so, any enemy of man automatically becomes the enemy of God.

chieveboy:
Time and space are illusions. Cheers

True.

You'll meet the true God in His time. As long as you're in your body, you'll continue to count time until you leave that body.

Maynman:
Boy you can't even dispute ONE, you just talking and talking because you are empty.
So as a Christian reading Paul writings after he got the so called vision, where did he go to?
You are Little, boy.

"Dispute ONE, let's see boy. And the person is a fellow Christian like you, so many excuses, let's see your level kid, dispute ONE."

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2012/09/telling-lies-in-gods-name/"

Bring him to Nairaland, let's see how he fairs. As for you his follower, you're none of my business.

chieveboy:
1: Eckankar teaches you ways to explore the reality behind Paul's statements "...ye are God's" for your self, so that you no longer need to believe it, but know it.



2: It also teaches you that heaven is here and now. Not tomorrow, not yesterday. In fact, no such thing as yesterday or tomorrow but an eternal Now.

If you realize this, you will see the scam and folly in someone threatening you of not going to heaven when you die or that you must accept any man as your savior before you go there.

This is because Man is already existing in the same time in heaven as he is living on earth now. His heavenly bodies which correspond to the heavens themselves are what give life to his physical body. When the link to his heavenly body is severed, the physical body dies.

What keeps him from seeing and knowing this reality is his because he uses the human body which is spiritually dumb by nature and can only see physical things. But he drops this temporarily every night and sees parts of heaven and has experiences there, comes back in the morning and calls it "a dream".

This means man automatically uses the heavenly body the moment he drops the earthly one permanently at death. He doesn't even need to know the word "God" for him to continue life in heaven. Its a default setting that most dead people do not even know that they have died...

So the kingdom of heaven is here and now. It's within you. Not in the skies even according to Jesus when asked when the kingdom of God is coming.

This is why we laugh when you go about the folly of threatening anyone here. We cross the body daily. We don't believe heaven exist. We know it exists. Believers in anything without experiencing it are ignorant and dangerous to themselves.

Smiling.

One day, I repeat, you'll meet the true God, and it's just a matter of time.

SIRTee15:
It's like u don't know that madman U discussing with. There's a reason I stopped debating with him.
My best advice for u in religious section is to avoid him at all cost. He's already an outcast here, few people debate him.
His head is filled with conspiracy junks and desperately looking for where to offload them.
That's how he will be jumping from one topic to another without concluding on any, moving around in circles.
He just want to debate for the sake of it not to prove anything.
Him head no correct at all.

Thanks for the clarification. I guessed as much about him. He even wanted to drag me into unnecessary debates that had nothing to do with the Apostleship of Paul which he queried. Rather than defend his baseless talk, he was referring me to an unintelligent content written by someone like himself on Vanguard.

Maynman:
Dispute ONE, let's see boy. And the person is a fellow Christian like you, so many excuses, let's see your level kid, dispute ONE.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2012/09/telling-lies-in-gods-name/

Kid, I'll dispute it with you only if you're the author. Otherwise it's your cup of tea to believe the gibberish he wrote.

And hey, no Christian thinks so awkwardly and reads the writings of Paul upside down like that guy did in the link which you now see as your pillar for debates.

Maynman:
The facts is there in the link why not dispute ONE, I'll tutor you boy

Kid, the link contains the warped ideologies of an ignorant Muslim. Are you that Muslim?

Maynman:
listen to your advice boy.

See you fellow man
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2012/09/telling-lies-in-gods-name/

Take the advice kid. Are you the author of the content on that link? I'll debate the author and not the referrer.

Maynman:
Who told you to take my word for it?

Go and know it yourself.

Why speak the word when you know you cannot defend it?

Maynman:
I was on my own when you quoted me, so what's the problem?

The author of Acts didn't know Any Paul.

Why should I take your word for it? Can't you prove your point?

Maynman:
When was this book written, me writing about Superman does not mean Superman exist. You don't understand your point and your wack logic.

Who made Paul or saul an apostle?
How did Saul change his name to Paul? 😂😂

You are using a forgery book to defend another forgery 😂
Who is the writer of this "Acts of Apostles"
when was it written?

Would you please establish your point with civility without the unnecessary attacks? Answer your own questions if you think any betrter. I am not here to be queried by you.

Maynman:
You said nothing, you brought up a book called "acts of apostle", and I question you on who wrote it, when and where it was written.

You are using a forgery book to defend another forgery 😂
Who is the writer of this "Acts of Apostles"
when was it written?

Whoever the writer of the book is, as long as it's not Paul, my stand remains. My point is that Paul didn't impose himself as an apostle on Christiandom.

Maynman:
Read slowly, The author of Acts never knew any Paul.


What's the correlation. Read your statement.

"I have pointed out to you that the writer of the Acts of Apostles which made Paul popular as an Apostle was not Paul."

You are using a forgery book to defend another forgery 😂
Who is the writer of this "Acts of Apostles"
when was it written?

I'm not here to debate the authorship of the Acts of Apostles. I think you should do the slow reading because I made that clear already.

What makes you question Paul's Apostleship? That's what I'm discussing you. I made that clear too.

And I have also pointed out that Paul didn't declare himself an apostle, someone else wrote that about him. Whether you regard that book as a forgery or not us none of my business. The point is that the Apostleship of Paul and his recognition as such, was not the doing of Paul.

Maynman:
That's not important at all.

Who wrote it?
When was it Written?
Is it Paul or saul that the person mentioned?


The author of Acts never knew any Paul

Is this a digression? I don't understand what you meant by "The author of Acts does not mention any Paul."

First off, are you here to debate the authorship of the book of Acts or the Apostleship of Paul? I have pointed out to you that the writer of the Acts of Apostles which made Paul popular as an Apostle was not Paul. Whoever that person is to you is not my concern. My point is that Paul was not the one who popularized himself as an apostle.

Maynman:
And who wrote Acts?

The important thing is that it wasn't written by Paul.

Maynman:
Who is the someone?

The Book called the Acts of Apostles which majorly featured Paul was not written by him.

kkins25:
Point me to Hebrew scriptures that clearly demonstrated the Trinity. Please stop directing me to your Greeko-roman aka European Fathers..

Schoary consensus is that Paul did write, or at least, narrated most of the letters bar the book of Hebrews. Other letters/Epistles had been updated by anonymous folks too though. So, no one knows for sure.

In most of the writings, Paul alludes to himself in greetings at the beginning and end of the epistles. And when you look at the language and styles of the letters, they all rhyme. I do not even need to see a name on a book before I'll know that Paul wrote it because I'm familiar with hhs writings because of the rhyme.

However, the guy wasn't actually talking about Paul's writings. He was questioning who made Paul an apostle.

chieveboy:
I will take this as a Golden Tongue Wisdom



There is really no "Time" as it where. Whatever exists is existing here and now.



Good.

With God, time is irrelevant in His realm. But as a man, you still have tomorrow, and many days to come.

chieveboy:
The height of ignorant arrogance is how a worshipper of the two-headed God is threatening a student of the Mahanta with hell and damnation.

It's like that. Everyone with an experience thinks he's the one with knowledge until he is disproved.

chieveboy:
Oh no, that prophecy is already fulfilled my friend. I am IN God everyday. At no time was I ever separated

No man can exist outside of God's 100% love.

No height, no dept, no ignorance can separate me or ANYONE else wether they believe in God or not from this reality.

Man however had hidden this truth to create an avenue for subjugation and misleading man from this truth for personal reasons.

This is what sets true spirituality apart from Satanic doctrines. This is why religions prefer ignorance and fear.

Thank God I am an ECKist! 🙏🙂

You'll meet the true God man. It's just a matter of time. I understand where you're talking from.

Minsk24:
Christainity and feeling of supremacy, so laughable

It's actually laughable because you feel superior.

chieveboy:
Of course IT does. What do you think is playing out currently?



I read such books too as a Christian back in 1999 or thereabout.

The path of ECK however grants me the grace to rise above Fear and Ignorance which Christianity is based on into the Light and Sound of God.



Careful praying for people without their permission though...you may run into hardships. It is white magic to do so, and invariably black magic.

Some day, you would meet God. That's not a prayer. It's a prophecy. It would come to pass in God's time.

Maynman:
All this are nonsense.
Let's discuss Paul, if Dem born your papa well, im not begging, i want to expose your IGNORANCE.
How did Paul become an apostle?

What ignorance do you wish to expose about Paul? Paul didn't write about himself, someone else did.

I learnt that Mohammed's father was a priest of the moon god in mecca, and that Mohammed was supposed to be his successor. Indeed Mohammed succeeded in exporting his father's idol to the rest of the world.

chieveboy:
Interestingly, when a Christian says this, they meant that as some form of a curse .

They wish pain and suffering, or intend to run one into some emotional culdesac, hoping that the fear will lead to a subscription to their faith.

Truly, I am in the Kingdom of Satan as far as this earth is concerned .





Don't worry na...

"in Christianity" as if when Christians come together to misunderst something, they then are inexplicably excluded from consequences of Karma

You remind me still of the Ostrich burying its head in hay yo escape an approaching lion .

Karma touches you regardless of what you believe or don't believe my friend.

If you like, exhaust the whole blood of Jesus on your head, whatever you sow, you must reap.




You can quote all the scriptures that made its way to the bible, then add the one they didn't add.

Whatever you sow, you reap it! No one can save you from it. It's that simple. You can't mock God with any scripture or any blood.

Man, God still has a plan for your life. Your present interaction with Eckankar is ephemeral. Just like how God saved Iyke Nathan Uzorma who wrote the book Occult Grandmaster Now in Christ, God will save you too some day in His time.

Righthussle:
What is miraculous about gullible people believing and living by what they read in a storybook ? Enjoy your religion Oga. Read your storybook everyday, do everything it says and maybe you'll be rewarded with the endless life after you die as it is written in the book.

Let me remind you that I do not practice religion. I'm in fellowship. And if you don't know what fellowship means, use a dictionary. Religion is all about belief. Fellowship is all about knowing, and 'knowing' comes by encounters.

Righthussle:
You don't sound that intelligent to discover God (if there's anything like that) yourself without a storybook. To people like you what is good is not what you think is good, it's what your storybook says is good.

Let me stop here before you start quoting Genesis and Leviticus.

You're talking off point.

You were describing my discovery of God as though you knew exactly how it came to be. I'm asking you whether that type of thinking looks intelligent to you.

It's not intelligent to discover God. It's a miracle. So, don't get yourself worked up on that.

And whatever I consider good isn't your business, neither is it the focus of this discourse.

Righthussle:
How can you say you know a god when everything you know about the god is through a silly story book written, put together and distributed by a money making organisation? You're practicing an organized religion Oga. What you read inside the book is what you do ?

You don't think, you just believe and do what the book says like Zombies.

You don't know how I know God and yet you've written a whole lot of gibberish describing my knowledge of God from your warped imagery. Does that sound intelligent to you?