₦airaland Forum

all4naija: Okay. This topic is really played out. Now let'us analyze it this way.

Firstly, We both agree change is eminent in modern society. Therefore things with such irritation as tattoo inside the mouth can not be allowed to gain ground in the name of culture or freedom alone. If there must be reason to allow it(according to freedom of choice)then the consequential effect must be the full responsibility of the users and shouldn't complain of any discrimination or whatsoever, as for the irritating sight, from the society.

Secondly, normally tattoos on skin add some beauty to some people look if done judiciously. On one hand most tattoos are attractive and interesting when not done well not to harm sensitive parts of the body. On the other hand, it is used by some people to cover up scars(as reference to facial markings you are advocating for). Even piercing some parts of the body is risky and usually it is not done it irritating way, excepting for those who are weirdos.

Thirdly, we must agree society plays a lot about who we are. The reason why the advanced society is so much different from the primitive ones lies in this fact. We can not ignore what our society says about us. It is outlandish to have tattoos inside the mouth. If the society deemed drug use to be dangerous then drug users/addicts will be prosecuted for reason it is not acceptable - even when it is not disturbing the peace of the society or just harming itself.

On the final note, good number of the modern youths would rather follow the modern craze than engage in putting tattoo inside the mouth which is alien and disturbing. I think we are both begging the question, when we know if given the choice only the wannabees would indulge such practice to their own detriment.

Thank you.

Firstly; Change is not always a good thing. And yes, you SHOULD complain about people judging you on your appearance. I don`t judge the naija-boys in the streets here to all be drug-dealers, just because many of them are, and they all dress the same.

Secondly; What do you mean with "weirdos"? For me, it is clear that you do judge people on how they look, putting them in a specific booth. For me, that is a very bad quality, much more bad than facial tattoos, or scars.

Thirdly; Outlandish for YOU, beauty for OTHERS. Like I said; one mans garbage is a another mans treasure. How would the world be if all were the same?
And on drug-talk; look at marihuana. When used occasionally, not from morning til dawn, it has no harm for the people using it. Still, it is illegal in many, many countries. Even using Hemp is illegal in many countries. Why? Politics and money, nothing else.

And, on a final note..what do you mean with "wannabees" ? Again; how would the world be if we were all the same, did the same, looked the same, find the same things interesting, beautiful, etc..? Not good, if you ask me. Going against societies rules is not something new, and does not have to be a bad thing.

all4naija: I am not too Okay with the 50-50 choice you came up with in your guess work. The reason is that ancient traditions are gradually dying out with the modern people,most especially, with people of African origin. The 50% should be for the elderly who know something about it from the old. So, I disagree we will get equal percentage from the choice. Maybe, 10-80 ,according to my guess.

The disturbing effects are not about the pains alone but the likely discrimination in offices, public gathering, stereotypes, infections, parents taking it as form of youth delinquency,etc.

If you can not ask in person you can post a poll here - as this is mainly Nigeria dominated forum and people at the comfort of their home can easily make their true choices. The poll will be a revealer though.

Like I said, I don`t have interest in a poll. That is you. So if you have an interest in it, do it

And about the so-called disturbing affects..that also goes with "normal tattoos", or even just colouring your hair or using too much crazy weaves. Do you really feel like people should only go for what "the society" think is accepted, or that people should, just maybe, make up their own minds, and do what makes them feel happy, AND beautiful?

all4naija: No, I am not saying stick-and-poke tattoos should be done away with. What I am saying is that something of that nature in the mouth should be done away with in our society due to its disturbing effects.

Those Nigerians in your country probably had the facial marks from a very young age. Most likely done against their will. If you ask where they are from in Nigeria a good number of them would come from rural areas, like those still practising this inside mouth tattooing. However, I was particularly talking about the Yoruba people.

If you carried out a poll on if Nigerian youths want facial marks there will be probability almost all will say NO! Facial marks are view as something traditionally rural in Nigeria, I guess.

Maybe you can carry out the poll on this forum to prove my point.

I don`t have any interest in doing that. I would guess it would come up to around 50-50 on against and for marks, done when you are old enough to understand f.ex consequences, and the pain it will do.

And what disturbing affects is there? A few percentage MAY react to it, just as with "normal machines" with tattoos on your leg, arm, neck, face. Why ban one, and leave the other one?

And, I wish I could ask, but I really don`t have nerves to go up to people I don`t know and say "Hey you, did your parents force you to get those marks, or did you choose it yourself?" with my oyinbo face straight up in theirs. My mother raised me with more manners than that..

all4naija: For a preamble, I am not trying to over-emphasize on the issue. It is absolutely clear there is no argument about that.

This is not a matter of preference, it is a matter of identifying something that can be inimical to the health of our youths. If you are saying they should be given the freedom to make their choice in this regard, there is no choice that is good to choose from. So, it is not about preference nor choice. Indeed, freedom should be the term and it has been played out already. It doesn't mean freedom must be abused in the name of culture. We know quite well the practice and its consequential effects on the society.

All I am asking for is to accept it as something meant for the past. That means we can put fake and safe ones on in cultural displays to show how our forefathers used to live.Nonetheless, it is very irritating to the eyes.

I repeat this is not a case of preference but of recognizing what can be detrimental to the health of our children. I think protecting kids is one of the duty of our parents.

So..should we ban all stick-n-poke-tattoos in the world? The machines that does tats as well? Where do you draw the line?
Ass long as people are old enough to take their own choices, they should be able to do what they want to with their body. People are not stupid, 99% know about the risks that comes with it.
I do NOT believe in making choices for other people, and creating laws on how they should or not should do with their own body. There is way too much of that already.
As long as what you do does not harm anyone else than yourself; go ahead.

all4naija: What have you to say about people perceptions and the horrible look of the practice?

Indeed, this is an example of what has almost died out in Yoruba culture of having facial marks. It is old practice and nobody needs it in the modern world because things change and we must learn to change with them. I can see some Africanism in you.But, we have to move on and leave disgusting and trivial things behind. We have to progress as a people and stop dwelling in things of the past as more important while they are not helping issues.

Like I jusat sid; as long as it does no harm to other people, go ahead.

And I find it strange you say it almost died out..in my country there are plenty nigerians (not sure which tribe, though ), and I would say that just around 80% of them have tribal-marks. And they are between 18-40 years of age.

For YOU it is disgusting. "One mans garbage is another mans treasure."

all4naija: The statement in bold was in the past when the Norwegian lack the modern advanced and civilized knowledge not present. You are bringing past history into it. Those are thing reserved for history and the objects associated with it save in the museum as artefacts as references. The question now should be something you and I have to search our heart diligently to be sure our kids do not repeat our forefathers mistake of not not embracing change and accept to acquire knowledge at the inception of human development.

We can keep moving backward while changing for the better, that is to move forward. That by itself proves change is moving forward.

When it comes to KILLING other people, then yes, you should move forward, and try to make sure people dont do that again.
But...a facial tattoo, or facial marks? Unless you have allergy from before, and take care of it good, nothing will happen.

all4naija: First and foremost, you said it in your comment that a young girl died after having a tattoo done in her mouth. In quote "In my husbands small village far in the bush, they stopped the mouth-tattoo after a woman died not long after getting the tattoo" https://www.nairaland.com/1153577/senegal-women-tattoo-gums-improve/2 and time: 11:11pm On Jan 09 - if this is true. Why would you want other people to tattoo their mouths when you cannot do it to yourself? What is the use of subjecting the future generation to something that can endanger their lives?

Lol @ when I am in my 60s and stop working comment. Well, there is nothing wrong seeing your grand kids wondering why grandma is such a designed figure.

On the final note, there is nothing artistic about this mouth and gum tattooing. The only thing I can see is that it poses more harm than good.

Yes, because they BELIEVED it to be because of the tattoo. Nothing more. Still no evidence, is it?
And, some people have allergy. Hence, it is not the tattoos fault, but your body reacts to it.
I dont WANT other people to do it, I want other people to d what they want. See the difference?
It`s about preference. It would not look nice on me, but a facial tattoo would. So, I will get it.

My grandkids will be used to seeing their grandmother with much tattoos, cause it is already there, hon. Nice try, though.

Aaaaw, my husband send me this. He was listening to this much at home in Gambia, and did not know the songs name or anything.

I loves it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf1KWArN7UA

And, in three months, we will live together again. I am looking for both work and apartment in the capital, and we will apply for the immigration in about 5-6 months. Cross your fingers..

centje: wow! That's a new one(that the additional substances distort their natural forms)...i never thought of that.

So which form should it be then? Some people (in nigeria), who want the herbs in their natural forms, put them in alcohol.

For me, it depends on what you are using it for.
Many people dry leaves and grass and trees to use for medicine, or have plants, f.ex aloe vera, in their kitchen, always fresh.
The only herbal-medicines I know of, are that kind. I try to always get as organic things as possible, frm the country it is made in instead of paying three times higher the price to import it to Norway.

Like pure shea butter..In Gambia, one big jar of mayonese filled with completely pure, handmade shea butter cost around 5-6 $. In Norway, that same amount would cost around 100$, and still; the people who made it, would probably not make more money than the original 5$.

Always buy local, buy as pure things as you can, and learn about what the nature in your country can help with. I am still learning, since much got lost on the way up here

kandiikane: And how many marabouts have you been to in the Gambia? I can bet my left shoe you don't know any therefore, what you wrote is false.

Like I said, I prefer to keep that to myself.

kandiikane: Oh, you going to a marabout and where your husband comes from has everything to do with this because of your claims. Plus, you said you 'what you have seen' so I don't see anything wrong in asking.
Especially, the feeding children to hyenas.


Now, you say some alkales, I thought you said many?

My point is what majority of marabouts practice is not juju.

No, it does not That kind of things, I prefer to keep to myself.
And the feeding of kids to hyenas..in Norway, they did the same to the wolfs, or the ice, with kids with down-syndrome. They believed it to be demons that attacked them, and made the baby evil, and it had to die. Sad, but true. Religious leaders have, in history and still, given out some bad information. I believe they though they did good, but..

Many, some..it depends what number you are looking at, hon.
The majority of the marabouts I know of, practice juju. But that just might be how they roll down there, who knows.

Aaaand, now...back to topic?

kandiikane: Majority of Gambians are muslim but still have their names for marabout. Marabout is the english version.

Ok, now you are just being ignorant. Do not put everything in one pot and call it juju.
Tell me, which area is your husband from?

What has feeding hyenas children got to do with the issue at hand? That's like me randomly saying it's being 30years since lynching blacks was the normal thing to do.
I sense negative undertones in your post even though you say you 'love' the culture.

If it's not hearsay, tell me, have you gone to a marabout yourself? What happened? Did he tell you he wanted the heart of a family member?

Do your research and stop throwing everything else in with juju.

And I have only heard them call it marabout. Again, no reason for me to lie. Maybe they have another name for it, but thats what THE PEOPLE I KNOW call it. Get it..?

I am not putting everything in a pot and calling it juju, I am telling you what I have seen down there. Some alkales are marabouts and do juju, some are not. Some marabouts are voodoo-priests, some only stick to "normal herbs and Quran". You need this with a tea-spoon? You really think things are only black and white, or that somethings might be mixed up here and there..?

Wether or not I have gone to a marabout myself, or where my husband is from, has nothing to do with it.

Edit: Lol, I had to call my husband and ask what they call it in fulani. And you are true, they have another name for it as well " Some things are just easier to tell you in english, honey. " I can live with that.

centje: As for nigeria,Herbal medication business is really thriving. Their activities here on nairaland in good pointer to that. And they are making serious effort to give it a scientific outlook. ..dosage,machines that conduct tests etc

They want to take it into the "new medicine", but use it completely natural, the old way? If I get you correct..

The problem with the new medicine, and the goverments, is that they put so much bullshit in the herbal medicines, to make them last longer, so they can take more money for it, and then they just break the whole "natural-herb medicine" - rule. It is supposed to NOT be added anything..

all4naija: You seem to be leaving out the magnitude of the effects the practice could have on the society as a whole. Even there is evidence here that points to a girl who died from the it and it's later banned in her community. Let us not keep begging the question when we know the harms this can cause to our community.

Beauty and taste have a lot to play in many societies and cultures. If you do not find them interesting most people do. Give me the benefit of doubt and say it to my wildest imagination you would engage in such thing if you are given the opportunity to do so.Which, I absolutely disagree you would. Nevertheless, I am not hating on it coming from Africa but the practice can only endanger the lives of many young people and it is not aesthetic to look at.

Thank you.

Where did I say it was not interesting..?

And where is the evidence that it made someone die? There is none..and if so, they probably did not sterilize the needle good/used a dirty needle, or the person was already in the danger-zone of having reactions, and the tattoo it self blew it up.
That can happen to anyone, anywhere, in any country, and that is why I do not think it should be left out of any community.

And no, I personally would not tattoo inside my mouth. I have friends who have, though, but not my cup of tea. But on the chin, and the forehead? Yes, when I am in my 60`s, and finished working, I plan to do so.

all4naija: I think that was very clear in my comment prior to this your reply.

I still don't find it modern and fascinating in many areas. It is just horribly disturbing to the eyes. Generally,the process can be harmful to the health of those practicing it.

Why do "everything" in the world have to be modern, or fascinating?
Just because you think it is ugly for YOU, does not make it a bad thing.
That is like stating the western world is correct in picturing beauty as a woman who look like a 12 year old boy before puberty is correct for everyone.

And everything in this world can be harmful if done wrong. Even drinking too much water can kill you.

And TerryCarr; I was reading about the beauty of fulanis when I was around 15 years old. To me, they look absolutely beautiful with these marks.

kandiikane: We are talking about young ladies tattooing the gums. It is more popular with young ladies who deem is beautiful and hence do it to look beautiful.

I did not say it isn't practiced in Gambia but like you said it's rare for Gambians to practice such. (Btw, who told you about this pregnacy and killing-a life for a life? Never ever heard of it. When a woman is unable to bear a child they'll will go to a marabout and he or she will tell her to give out saara to people(alms) of certain things I.e. Take 2cups of sugar to a mosque and give a wrapper to an old woman, give her a script in animal skin to tie on her or she'll be given herbs to wash herself.)

Marabouts usually read from cowries, tasabia(prayer beads) or quranic scripts. I've already told you the people who practice the act and where they are from. Usually when the people are kidnapped, they get transported to casamance. Ask your husband.

Curung fyeler is mandinka.

Marabout is the english version derived from arabic meaning religious leader/holy person not fulani. It's just the lingua franca. The fulani's may pronouce it as it would in arabic but I'm sure there's an indigenous name for it in fulani and not just marbut.

You have to understand the different types of beliefs in Africa. Juju is different to what a maroubout does unless it's an actual juju priest who you could go to and ask to kill someone or make someone barren.

Do not throw juju in with every belief that has to do with looking beyond this world.

P.s, alkales are different to marabouts. An alkale does not have much wisdom in 'juju'. An alkale/alkalo(chief) is just the head of a village who resolve disputes, minds the village etc not why a woman cannot give birth. Being an alkale doesn't mean you know the ways of 'juju'


A barren woman may go to the Imam for prayers.
Do research on the meaning of marabout and the mouride so you can learn more about the tradition rather than listen hearsay.

Since many fulanis, most of them, are muslims, they use arabic words much. Very much, actually.

And yes, the marabouts that my husbands family know, do juju. Why would I sit here and lie about that? I am only talking about the things I know about, not hear-say. And I also know that alkales are not the same as marabout, I did not state they were the same, I said that many of the alkales tend to be marabouts as well, up in the areas my husband grew up in. Maybe I did not write it straight out so you could understand it like that. I can not speak for all of Gambia, or all of West-Africa, I can also speak of what I have come to know.

A woman goes to whomever she wish to go to, and many women will go to extreme lenghts to get help. It is not more than an odd 30years since they dumped kids with down syndrome in the bush to be eaten by hyenas, because they were told the child was demonic. There is bad juju, bad marabouts, and there is good ones as well.

And, back to topic again.

centje: Thanks jallowah. So medical doctors are allowed to prescribe herbal medications in your country?


i really learnt alot from your post. Yes, herbal medication was a main therapeutic option years back. But what i keep wondering is how the herbal/natural medicine lost the trust of most people. Could it be the same 'modernization' or is there another thing to it...

People who tend to patronize the herbal usually do so in combination with orthodox. Like my mum is currently on drugs for diabetics buh she still takes some herbal medication from germany.

It`s about politics, and money.
Look at hemp..yes, you can smoke it, and get high, but you can also relieve pain, help fighting cancer, isolation for house, clothes, shoes, bags, house, chairs, etc, etc...it is FAR more cheap, and it grow naturally, but still, it is banned from almost all of the world, and why? Politics and money.

Sadly, much of the use of natural herbs have gotten lost on the way in Scandinavia, and Europe. It`s still here, and it seems like people are trying to learn more about it again.
Medical doctors don`t usually prescribe herbal medicine, but there are health-shops that sell some herbal things that you can use ( with f.ex fresh cold, headche, problems sleeping, etc ), but it still ten times more expensive than growing it yourself.

victorD3: Women like houseboys! Smh


Well am single but my Dad was too busy making millions to satisfy his wife insatiable desire for traveling abroad and marrying for her brothers. So if she sees him twice a week then she's lucky. He was an exceptional man though, still bleeps his wife even at 75 yrs.

Before I derail the tread, she brags about his libido.

I would rather have a poor man with me, than a rich man I hardly ever see.