₦airaland Forum

success4: AT:dare2think,OLAADEGBU and frosbel.
It beats me reading comments from three of you. The house that divide against itself shall not...?
If God is a God of denomination, then three of you can be JUSTIFIED.
Can your argument on NL save a soul?
Can your comments on this issue bring revival to His church?
The heart of the matter is the matter in the heart!

Please, let's desist from unfruitful argument. Remember that we
SHALL give account for WORDS that come out from us, either by
speaking or by writing.

Their arguments are very fruitful please. If we don't discuss, we are forced to just take anything hook, line and sinker! There is nothing wrong in discussing. Even Paul argued with people in the Bible to squeeze out the truth. It is like Bible discussion please. If you are not benefiting, I am.

OLAADEGBU: If you are a woman I will say "gbeborun" and if you are a man I'll say "gbefila." It means being busybodies in other men's matter. How does the matter of DL concern you if I may ask?

The same way my concern about DL is also concerning you. If I may ask, how does my concern about DL concern you. I won't call you names in my own case. Bless you!

Gad.:
If you know them as much as you ought to in relation to the subject, you wouldn't need to write all these. Judging is not the same as expression. If both Joy and John are in tune with biblical principles, and their parents and leaders are on ground to guide them, the messy fall-out would not have been. The basic thing in my arguement is the need for God's grace in the heart of anyone out to say he is bad or she is naughty. Just be sure the adjectives do not qualify the assessor also. Anyone who has problem reading a line of words that points him/her to the need to be free from what God hates is treading a dangerous ground as much as eternity remain a reality.

Thank you very much for your post. The 'messy' thing was that they acted according to their conscience and slapped tradition. In my opinion, it is nnot enough to be saying we must have eternity in viewan but clearly enumerate scripturally supported principles that will lead one to God. For example, people talk about worldliness. What is worldliness based on scriptures? What is moderate based on scriptures and conscience? Many times, people's lives are over-moderated and so the person we see outside isn't the real person inside because the person was being made to be someone else. As long as every christian bases his conduct on revealed truth in the Bible, people's opinion should matter liittle. Hypocrites are bred in churches this way. Yes, they may be guided, buy would it have been in line with their conscience or what they believe to be correct? Do you know that if they have been 'guided' and everything was done according to tradition, everybody wouldve praised them as true DLfers whereas God knows that that is not the case. Again thanks for your post.

Gad.:
Whatever anyone feels or wish to share or contribute to issues in Christendom, it would only be sound and founded if the contributor possess what God commanded everyone to have; salvation or freedom from sin. If we are all free from all sins, then we have the moral right to declare another man's sin to be sin indeed. If you still live in sin, you do not have any right or authority to criticise an action that is a product of a nature you share. Those unguided children whose conduct has raised all these comments may not be free from sin as many may suppose. Let not a sinner, condemn another sinner. Such would not be innocent in the sight of God.
The Tunde Bakare of a man, was once a Deeper Lifer, who still nurses age-long grudges for not having his way in DL. so, he can afford to use this incident to let out something. But God sees, hears, and knows all, and will judge all according to ALL ACTIONS AND WORDS.

Haba, you just said Pastor Tunde Bakare is still nursing an age-long grudges against DL because he couldn't have his way(whatever that means). How did you know that he is still nursing grudges against DL. You have just judged a man without checking up with him and yet you say God who knows everything will judge! Which one do we take. You sounded so sanctimonious in your post but you betrayed yourself at the end. Let's try and be sincere with each other. Go and meet Pastor Bakare and find put if he still have grudges with DL. Every idle word... Again, the fact that a person is a sinner does not remove his common sense. Most of the issues about John Kumuyi require only commonsense(fearless commonsense I mean) to resolve but humility is lacking and some will prefer traps(tradition) to the truth. Note also that you reffered to John and Joy as unguided children! How did you know this? You have also just judged them without hearing from them. You see yourself now?

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DEEPER LIFE DOCTRINE NO 1 SAYS: THE BIBLE IS THE FINAL AUTHORITY ON ANY ISSUE CONCERNING MAN! So DL actions on the wedding should be weighed on the balance of the scripture. The church is one and so we must be united in essentials and in non-essentials, we are at liberty. The question now is this; is DL following their doctrine no 1?

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joiam: You too mind your business . Every Christian is a member of one body and so he should be concerned about. Especially where deceit and oppressive through human and unscriptural traditions is holding the ignorant and the unwary in chains! If you don't have a superior argument, why not just keep quiet . Every Christian is my brother or sister and I must be concerned about how they are treated irrespective of where they worship. Pastor Bakare made sense to me and I commend him. The body is one and we should stop seeing our brethren as chicken in a pen waiting to be slaughtered by religious leaders by their oppressive traditions !

DL doctrine no1 says: The Bible is the final authority on any issue concerning man! So let's stop sayin my doctrine and our doctrine. It is childish. Who are you anyway? Every practice of any church including DL should have the backing of the Word or else such a chuech becomes a cult!

To all those who are talking of DL doctrine, Redeem doctrine, Latter Rain doctrine, you seem to have forgotten that Christ isn't divided. It is this kind of silo mentality that is dividing the church, the unity of which Christ prayed for. Pastor Bakare was very blunt and correct! For your information, DL is based on the sound doctrine of the Word of God, but the traditions of elders has been able to dilute the whole thing. The moment you deviate from the Word, you start fumbling and you eventually get trapped! Deeper Life doctrine No.1 says: The Word of God is the final authority on any issue concerning man! Now, we must weigh every practice in DL on the scale of the Word and not on any funny and myopic our doctrine as if your doctrine is superior to the Word. Every doctrine must receive authority from a single source and that is the Word of God. Simple. The problem here is that humility is a scarce commodity even with those who preach it and claim to be going to heaven. Indeed, with the corrupting traditions of men, you don't need to study the Bible! Just be obeying whatever comes from the whims and caprices of men! John and love have made a historical statement, apology or no apology. The wedding as done by them wasn't a mistake. It was done that way to make a never-to-be-forgotten statement. God is working!!!

saintvc: The pastor tunde bakare should learn to mind his buisness


from politics to bokoharam to kumuyi's wedding

You too mind your business . Every Christian is a member of one body and so he should be concerned about. Especially where deceit and oppressive through human and unscriptural traditions is holding the ignorant and the unwary in chains! If you don't have a superior argument, why not just keep quiet . Every Christian is my brother or sister and I must be concerned about how they are treated irrespective of where they worship. Pastor Bakare made sense to me and I commend him. The body is one and we should stop seeing our brethren as chicken in a pen waiting to be slaughtered by religious leaders by their oppressive traditions !

sheniqua: You can twist the Bible all you want,it doesn't change a thing.

The same scriptures you throw at others applies to you
I am not pre occupied with earrings,you are
I have never preached to anyone to go out and get earrings and put on,you have preached to them to cast it away as a holiness sign
You are the one that has elevated the wearing and not wearing of earrings to a standard of godliness
You are the one that labels your fellow Christians washed in the blood as jezebels not I
As matter of fact I am out of the house now,I am neither wearing earrings nor necklaces and have my wedding ring and birth stone always on my ring finger
I can choose to wear ear rings or not and it has no bearing on my walk with God.
That is scripture.

I have no burdens to deliver people from earrings
You do
It is a teaching you spend time on and punish those who disobey
I accept Christians who choose to cast off earrings for their personal convictions just like I accept those who choose to wear them
But teaching that it is sin,is a doctrine not of Christ
So who exactly is fighting tooth and nail to push an agenda
Me or you?
The Bible teaches on modesty and I agree 100%
A Christian man or woman should be modest in appearance ad by God's grace I am modest in my appearance.I cannot be otherwise not just because God says so but because I have a husband I love and respect and Children who look up to me.
LOve Odi was modest at her wedding but you religious folks punished her and turned her happiest day into a nightmare
Elevating yourselves to be God
Who gave you that authority to condemn someone who has not offended God,making a mockery of Christianity

The problem with people always talking about worldliness is that they define or describe it according to their whims and caprises and not according to the scriptures . They actually have no definition for it. Their description to is very fluid . Today, fine car is worldly , tomorrow it is not because they can now afford it or because they like it now. If they say wearing hat is worldly or English and should not be worn by our sisters in Nigeria, why should the men put on English suits? Or are they Nigerian suits? Just like in the Moslem world , the women are the sufferers. The men can look well and their wives look tired and unhappy on the way to church. I'm not sure the fine looking men are going to heaven really ! It is all an biblical way to keep the women in subjection . True Christian women are obedient willingly and not even as slaves too. Could it be that some men are feeling inferior and so their women must look less than a happy woman to boost their ego. Is God in this kind of life ?

OLAADEGBU: Mr gbefila! Why are you busy bodies in other men's matter? Don't you have enough trouble dealing with your false doctrines in JW's organisation already? Repent and believe the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ for the salvation of your souls.

I see , you are truly a 'christian' . Calling someone Mr. Gbefila in retaliation is truly a'christianly' Well done jare . There will be suprises in heaven ! Oh my God .

[quote author=Deeper_danNY][/quote]lol, these ones wear hats o! Very worldly .They should change to turban or scarf please or they cant make heaven. Sisters who will make heaven are in Nigeria wearing turban with anger , hatred , malice , selfishness , gossiping , etc (all these you can't see on the outside )

wiseman273: And you all have to realise that Deeper Life as a church is an organization having ethics and ethos(Just like other churches).Once,we see it this way,there'll be no need making a fuss about these issues.

Sorry o! Ethics and ethos my foot. So where do you put the Word of God give? Your ethics and ethos are above God's Word now just as the Pharisees elevated their traditions above God's Word. Proud spirit at work . Sowy o Mr. Ethos the son of Ethics.

Babalegba: wisdom suggests that the passage you quoted is a call for moderation and the promotion of spiritual values over materialism and moreover that was not a direct commandment from God banning moderate use of adornment. To be candid with you if we are to interpret the bible without wisdom then Jesus will be deemed a liar afterall he said he was coming quickly and he has been gone now for two thousand years or is 2000 years quickly to you.

Very apt. 1Pet 3:3 if read carefully makes it very clear that God was talking about moderation and not exclusion or else, plainting the hair and putting on of apparel becomes a sin. Indeed the streets of heaven are made of gold and if gold can defile,it should not be used by God Himself, because He said nothing that defileth will enter therein but Gold is there . Dear friend , if we continue to study the Bible with preconceived ideas fueled by tradition, we cannot receive understanding with the Help of the Holy Spirit . May God give us understanding. Amen .

calebbintus: People take Heaven with Levity

Your opinion and not God's opinion. How should they take it? Like the Pharisees and not relying on God's grace? Please read Rom. 10: 1-6, 17-21 and Luke 16:15.

OLAADEGBU: Read about God's judgment on the daughters of Jezebel.

Dear friend, their only sin is in verse 16. The discipline or punishment is from v17 downwards. If you study very well, you would have discovered that God decided to withdraw those good things mentioned from v17 downwards because they were being misused according to v16. Indeed, some of the things mentioned from v17 are things we are using today! Muffler is an example. Does that make muffler bad? For example, if the GS says because choir members do come late to choir seat late always and he decides to punish them by saying they will not sing for some time. What is their sin? Is it the latecoming or the singing? Don't forget that before their attitudes recorded in v16, they were using those things and God had no problem. V16 says because the daughters of Zion ... v17 says therefore... Please note the daughtersBECAUSE and the BECAUSETHEREFORE ?

naijaboyof4life: I did not say it wasn't bad, i said her action wasn't bad because she did it to the Lord not to anyone else, don't misunderstand me. Jesus went to the house of prostitutes because He couldn't be affected. When you wear wear jewlry, who are you impressing, God or man. When you straighten your hair, is that to the glory of God or to your self. The woman did it to Jesus not to anyone. Jesus coudn't be entice.

Following your argument, when you buy a fine car like jeep instead of beetle .car, who are you trying to impress? When you decide to build a house instead of renting one and using the money for the gospel, who are you trying to impress? We can go on and on. You also said the woman did it to the Lord . Have you forgotten so soon what Christ said about the fact that whatever you do to the little ones , you are doing it to him? Please we can do things to the Lord here even when He is not here physically ! I think we really need to study the Bible with open mind and humility and not with a preconceived ideas and trying to twist the Bible to justify our tradition . Let us be humble for once knowing and accepting that we are not infallible ! Please read Luke 16:15.

OLAADEGBU: Idolatory and worldliness sends many "Christians" to hell.

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world" (1 John 2:15-16)

Please define worldliness according to God and not according to church traditions please and we can take it from there.

[quote author=xtianlife]I'v gone tru some of the post as regards this issue,i'm neva ashamed to say i b DEEPERLIFER.i discovered that many ve spoken out of ignorance while some out of hatred but i bleed in my heart and cudnt resist replyin to the above.dear friends the apostle admonished us:be swift to hear but slow to speak.
so many from their response one can conclude are very young(pls i'm young likewise) or know very little/nothing about church growth in this country.some are here talking but it was deeperlife that took revival of true WORSHIP to their hometown where idolworshippers were pastors in the vilage-church.How many heaven-bound churches were present and popular in the 80's?pls find out.many today are beneficiaries of the sufferings of the few but resolute believers;may the labour of our hero past not be in vain.bro KUMUYI is one of the very few pastors i respect their spiritual calling and i wonder,seriously wonder how a conscious serious heaven-bound believer will call him an hypocrite......I fear as i mortal man.
franchizy,did u say u joined deeperlife 86 and left when? did say you only knew bro kumuyi as the only pastor with healing and deliverance power?i stand to be corrected i doubt if any other church has as much anointed men like deeperlife........my few days in the church,i ve met so many who are not even PASTORS.
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My dear friend, let us accept that something is wrong when it is wrong. Nobody is saying you should regret being a DLfer. You haven't addressed the real issue but veered into mentioning some achievements of the church! Other churches have achievements too but all is by God's grace lest any man should boast. I wish you could be as humble as GS himself who accepted that some things were actually wrong in the church!

naijaboyof4life: The way of the cross is hard. Jesus told his disciples to carry their cross and follow him, cross also mean burden. Men of God are living large because they have no fear of God but God will judge them not us.

Carrying your cross may mean carrying your burden but only burden which came as a result of our following Christ and not the self-imposed ones meant to show we are 'holy' or else Christ wouldn't have said "come unto me all ye that labour ..."

Diligence: I see this as exemplary leadership! Alas most churches these days do not uphold biblical standards; Christ Himself cannot even worship with them let alone attend their wedding what?! WE hv indeed got to repent b4 it's too late!

The message we all shld deduce is lead and live by biblical standards and not by worldly standards remember what Jesus SAYS: Matthew 7:21-23 v21. Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. v22.On that day, many shall say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in they name done many wonderful works? v.23 And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity!!

Deeperlife remains a church that preaches and practises holiness; if u seem NOT to agree to the biblical standards they uphold, u might as well know that u hv already missed it! Retrace, repent and be restored. Don't wait until u say "Oh Had I known".

Which Bible standard dear proud denominationally proud Pharisee, which bible standard is DL upholding? You've quoted no scripture to support your assertion! Pride goeth before a fall. Read Rom 10:1-3.

winner95: Don't mis-interprete the bible, the bible penalize the using of all kind of jewelries.....
1 Peter 3: 3-5
"3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of braiding the hair, and of wearing gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of heart the heart.........."
May the Lord God have mercy on us, this is infact, what is leading many of we youths to the wrong path.....mis-interpretation of the bible', anyway am not suprised, the bible has already told us that at ''the end time the perilous time will come people will be doing what they like......'' and I'm sure the end time is here already.

No sir! The Bible did not condemn the use of earrings or gold from that passage. What about putting on of apparel? Dont you put on apparel? The Bible is simply talking about moderation and consideration for inward more than the outward. Dont you guys study your bible? Dont just read, study and ask questions please so we dont look like ...

olawalemanog: What you call church of God needs reform? And if i may ask who will champoom such reform? If you ask me, i think something is amiss somewhere...and, in my opinion, i think the DL is the best church standing today; the others are just mere halls of music, noise and superstitions.

Pride in action. How were you able to judge other churches. Have you been to all churches. Please let us be a bit more matured for heaven's sake. To say DL is the best church standing today is to invite the displeasure of God against DL. '\"he that thinketh he standeth..." Meanwhile, the church is supposed to be one. I think ignorance is a major problenm with people. haba!

[quote author=yame014][/quote]You said they sinned against God. Please tell us their sin against God(not against tradition o). Where do you find it in the Bible that Gos is against the use of earrings and Gold? Please study your Bible very well and dont let tradition cover your sense of reasoning. Even the streets of heaven are made of gold. The Bible says nothing that defiles will not enter heaven and so if gold is defiling, why should it be the material for the streets. I can actually prove you wrong on gold and earrings but may be later. Religion is a very dangerous thing. It is like opium or marijuana. It beclouds one's sense of reasoning. And that is if you are still able to reason at all!

success4: God is a God of mercy! Why are people over-flogging this issue?
To John and Love Kumuyi, if you are reading this, never allow this
wave to demoralize you, the reason is obvious: devil wants to ruin
your relationship with God through this...

To Pastor Kumuyi, it is part of challenge which a man of God will go
through. The ONLY way not to suffer persecution is to live a godless life.
Sir, move and keep the fire of holiness burning.

To deeper life church members: don't make it a tooth for tooth eye for eye matters.
The master Jesus taught about FORGIVENESS. Paul the apostle never write a single letter
to the BEREAN CHRISTIAN, students of the bible know the reason. Therefore, following
leaders blindly is WRONG.

Finally, if you are a christian with mind to making Heaven,remember:
Others may make comments carelessly, you dare NOT.
Others may be happy at people's peril, you cannot and dare not
Others may turn NL an avenue to sin, you dare not
Others may abuse each other all in the name of showing off, you dare not
May God see us through as we continue in our pilgrimage!

You haven't said anything my dear. What is your take on this issue. We don't have to bury our heads in the sand and pretend there is no problem. Thanks for your advice anyway. You are advising DL members not take the a tooth for a tooth route. Who told you all of them are being offended, Indeed, many of them albeit secretely have been yearning for a change to free them so they could worship God in spirit and in truth. have you noticed some who look sombre (not sober please) even when going into the house of God because they are living in a way that is not really convenient for them. They are not themselves, they have been forced to be someone else. Fear mechanism and bewitchment at work

salt 1: Wrong, Frosbel. Very wrong! Love and fear go together. But it is filial, reverential fear. My children love me so much that they fear hurting me by their actions. I love God so much but I know that, as I am not an indulgent parent, He's not an indulgent Father either. He expects me to represent Him before the rest of humanity by my words, dressing(o yes I care about how my kids dress because they represent me and my values), actions etc.

Fear, filial fear, isn't negative. "And deliver them who thro fear of death were all their lifetime subject in bondage":Heb 2:15

LHappy is the man that feareth alway" Prov 28:14

I have more faith in the Holy Bible than one vision from heaven or hell. How am I sure that those who said they saw the vision were not being influenced by what is already in their subconscious? I dont care about someone seeing one angel or the other. The word of God is surer and i would rather judge any vision with the word of God and not the other way round. The person who said immediately he/she watched the testimony, he/she changed immediately and removed earrings, etc is only showing that she is more fascinated by visible thing, rituals which gives false security and unwillingness to obey and abide by the simple Wqord of God. Imagine, the Bible had no effect on you but an unverifiasble source did! No wonder, people would rather buy different books of one vision or the other and peddle and will not even try to study their Bible and understand it. No wonder human beings would rather carry sacrifice in the night than obey simple command - you must be born again! Unless something is complicated, human beings will not believe. That was why the simple salvation was too simple for some. How could God just forgive me like that?

emmyeuler1: you are a backslider....u've suddenly 4goten dat d way of the cross leads home!

My friend, you are so ignorant. So leaving a church means one has blackslidden! Oh my God. You must be one of those who only read but don't study their Bible. If the way of the cross is hard as you understand it, why are leaders using good cars and live in good houses instead of trecking and living in tents? After all Jesus had no car and no duplex! Hope you are not a deeperlifer with shallow understanding!

Dawinlove: God will punish all offenders especially those blackmailin kumuyi,it sha does nt move the members..WHO POST THIS MATTER FOR FRONT PAGE SELF,DIS NA POLITICAL LIE,KUMUYI IS D FOUNDER OF DEEPER LIFE AND DID NOT MAKE MENTION OF RESIGNING,8-) haters na don hear

My dear friend, Pastor Kumuyi offered to step down. One of his Region Overseers reported that to a big combined service recently! The region overseer in my opinion said more than necessary in my opinion. Why should he step aside for the 'sins' of his son?

A lot of people have been saying the couple and members generally should obey the rules of the church . Have we forgotten that members have some rights or liberty given to them by God? The liberty to choose in non essentials is one of them . Pastor Kumuyi in one1of his messages said in essentials,we(churches ) are united but in non essentials (ie things that do not count towards salvation or our relationship with God bless)we are at liberty . So it is wicked for any church to make rules for people to obey where they should have been allowed to choose as long as what they choose is not against the will of God according to the Bible and not according to man. If one may ask, the so called approved style, was or were they from God or they are just what the leader likes? If the leader likes a style , must every member like that style? Should we like the same thing even though we have different backgrounds and composition? By the way those who are saying the limo and the gown are not moderate according to them, are the good cars the leaders are using moderate according. lf they are, who told them they are moderate? Why can't they use old beetle car to show example of moderation . They leaders are at liberty to choose but held the mind of their members in chains and deny them their Godgiven right to choose. Many of them seem to have lost their minds really! They wont realise this now1until they become very old and look back or until1God opens1their eyes. This is slavery and wickedness. This is the way cults are run!

Rom 14: 5-6 , Col 2: 20 - 22. Let me talk about rules here. In essentials, the church can make rules and members should abide. Example is- Every Sunday, our service starts by 8am or every Thursday, is our prayer meeting day. As a member, you have to abide since this is somehow a corporate rule to guide everybody for a particular purpose. However, in non-essentials like wedding gown which has no bearing on our salvation experience for example, people should be allowed to choose as long as their choice does not violate God's principle on dressing. Those who are saying that a church can make rules as they like and you must abide, that does not apply to cases where a member can make choices as a human being or else that church becomes a cult. For example, some come to church in English dresses of many kinds while some to in native attire of different designs and styles. Same freedom to choose should apply to things like wedding gown especially when there is no design from that from heaven. A church that denies people of their right to choose or use their common sense is essentially a cult!

Rom 14: 5-6 , Col 2: 20 - 22. Let me talk about rules here. In essentials, the church can make rules and members should abide. Example is- Every Sunday, our service starts by 8am or every Thursday, is our prayer meeting day. As a member, you have to abide since this is somehow a corporate rule to guide everybody for a particular purpose. However, in non-essentials like wedding gown which has no bearing on our salvation experience for example, people should be allowed to choose as long as their choice does not violate God's principle on dressing. Those who are saying that a church can make rules as they like and you must abide, that does not apply to cases where a member can make choices as a human being or else that church becomes a cult. For example, some come to church in English dresses of many kinds while some to in native attire of different designs and styles. Same freedom to choose should apply to things like wedding gown especially when there is no design from that from heaven. A church that denies people of their right to choose or use their common sense is essentially a cult!

Rom 14: 5-6 , Col 2: 20 - 22

It is true that a church should have practices that members should try and abide with. However, the church should only enforce their practices on the essentials and not on the non-essentials. Pastor Kumuyi said in essentials, we are united and in non- essentials, there is liberty. If we refuse people their liberty in non-essentials, it means they cannot make choices in life and they become morons. Watch this video message below by Pastor Kumuyi on church traditions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B37R04v-WKA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

It is true that churches have their rules but such rules should not infringe on the rights of members to make personal choices as human beings. Can a church rightly dictate what I must wear to church without infringing on my God-given right to choose. What churches should preach are principles. Jesus at no time cancel our right to make choices but gave us kingdom principles to guide our choices as individuals as long as the kingdom principles are not disobeyed. Now, must all wear the same design of wedding gown? No! If we all must, we are making the choice of someone(not God's) a must for everybody thereby hindering them from exercising their rights to make choices. Only cults do this. Was the wedding gown design received from God in a vision? Was it received from mount sinai? Must we be uniform to show we are united? Is uniformity a necessary condition for unity? Is uniformity equal to unity?