₦airaland Forum

KDK:
@ KAG,
I don't feel it's a case of patting backs and ignoring responses; rather we are trying to rub minds here and everyone is just making efforts to bring home their various perceptions (which may be narrow, liberal or circumspective) of this subject matter.

You say potato,

However remember that some things may be facts but not necessarily the truth (brood over this).

Some things may be "truths" but not necessarily facts.

Wow, fallacies and borderline insults, sorry (in truth I'm not sorry) I bothered. Feel free to talk at yourselves, continuing to ignore responses to questions, and pat yourselves on your backs.

olabowale:
Just because Einstein explained the nature of gravity, as is known today, did not mean that he had anything to do with it.

I know, that's why I phrased it the way I did: "What role did Einstein play in our understanding of gravity before he was born?

Maybe in the future, a greater man than Einstein will give his generation a better and more thorough knowledge of Gravity.

Undoubtedly.

KDK:
@ KAG,
hope you don't find out the truth when it's too late. Just incase you do, remember the name KDK!!!

Alritey then.

damsol:
KAG,u re just being ignorant.

Nothing of the sort. Are you?

queen2:
they know God exists only when the have problem

Interesting. Do you believe Cthulu exists when you lose or can't find a book to read.

damsol:
I just have to say that most of u are ungrateful.

I just have to say that doesn't make any sense.

By say God does not exist,no offence please.have u ever sat down and thought of life and death.

Yes.

where do you hope to go after death?

I would hope to "exist" in a fantasy world of books and words, a world that would also allow me to visit the Earth every now and then, to see how things are going. It shuld also afford me the opportunity to visit the otehr planets in our Universe. Reality says it ain't happening though, and after I die, I will cease to exist.

who is the creator of heaven and earth?

Earth? Nobody. Heaven? Non-existent.

who do u think heals u when u re sick?the doctor or what?

Doctors play a big part, and for minor illnesses, my immune system does a good job.

who made you what you are today.

My family and friends, my teachers, and far too many experiences and people to name.

have u ever been amazed at anything on earth .

Yes.

who do u think created the.

Nobody.

who gave u life?

My parents.

I believe in God almighty,the creator of heaven and earth!!!!!!!!!!!am just astonished at the way some people think.

Good for you.

What role did Einstein play in our understanding of gravity before he was born?

Bobbyaf:
@ Seun


So what are you saying Seun that the story wasn't true, or that the girl wasn't what he thought her to be? If its the latter then you don't have a case. The person has more grounds to think so than you.

For one it waasn't your experience, and secondly, the fact that people could testify to the appearance/matching description of the girl who was once alive speaks in favour of leketoye

What people have testified in leketoye's favour?

In my home country there have been similar experiences. I once heard

There you have it.

These are not made up stories. As I have said before Satan is real and he is playing tricks.

Hmm.

Nice start. Tweak it a little bit, add some more plots and you'll be ready to shop the script around to Nollywood big-wigs. Goodluck.

What he said.










10 ghost stories.

I know, iknow, addressed to Seun, but it was interesting enough.

TayoD:
@Seun,

May I ask you what translation of the Bible you are using? Is the NAB refering to the New American Version or the American Standard Version. I need to have this clarified. But in any case, you have misread those verses because Jesus' prophecy wasn't directed at Caiaphas or any one in the room for that matter. Jesus just mentioned an event that will happen in the future, and He didn't say when exactly and who exactly will see those.

Actually it was directed at Caiaphas. See:

63 And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

However, we know Jesus is on the right hand of the majesty on high now. Stephen for one saw this when he was matyred and we know of John's revelation in the Book of Revelation.

No we don't know that, and that still contradicts his implied quick return.

You have only tried to play with the use of words in stating your point, but I have no doubt that if Jesus was refering to Caiphas, He would have mentioned His name. Jesus was never a coward.

Frank asked me "Why do you think that argument is spurious at best?"

I said to him, "I'm not speaking to you, even though I'm replying to you, because I didn't implausibly mention your name before responding…er… to you.  Seriously!

You are deliberately making the wrong conclusions Seun. Matthew 23:36 is not saying anything at all about Jesus second coming. It was all about how isreal mis-treated God's prophets and the fact that that generation will suffer the consequences of such action. It seems to me you are just plain mischievous by this obvious twisting of facts.

Agreed

Matthew 24:34 on the other hand refers to the genration that witnesses the parable of the fig tree as mentioned in verse Matthew 24:32. Again, you just need to read the Bible in context before picking phrases that suits your agenda.

I would suggest that you need to read the Bible in context. Verse 34 is actually the culmination of the earlier verses starting from verse 3. Those verses show Jesus telling his disciples what to expect from the end times, and ends with Jesus telling his disciples, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled".

I hope you will go back and repost or rephrase your questions again as you have only suceeded in showing a lack of scholarship and understanding of biblical terms. I will repsond as much as I feel your postings deserve a response.

Hmm

KDK:
'You believe in God; that's fine. I don't; and that's OK too.'We've all heard it said. It's non-judgmental; tolerant; pluralistic. But it's also desperately superficial; and not very logical.

But the big question remains? IS THERE REALLY A GOD?

No.

Sista:
@ Kag

By not putting the qoute in it's full context you made it look Like I said what I said on two different occasions. I didn't like that and I had to clear it up.

Pathetic!

Apart from the fact that your "explanation" doesn't really make sense (like you said what you said on two different occasions?), the quote was there in its full context, only separated so I could emphasise a question - a method of responding to posts that I've used throughout this thread, and one that hadn't given you any trouble.

Furthermore, there's a world of difference between "It is interesting how you didn't post the full qoute, here is the quote in full, [cue texts that had in actuality received a response]. You will do anything to prove a point, including telling only half the truth", and "By not putting the qoute in it's full context [etc. (curses to the person that removed the dot.dot.dot option)]"

The first implies I actually completely removed a part of your response, to make it seem like I was perhaps - in your own words - doing "anything to prove a point, including telling only half the truth.". The latter on the other hand simply implies, at least from what I can understand of it, that I separated your words, thereby altering the context. That of course is absolute nonsense, but it would have, could have been a worthy grieviance.

I suppose it was too much to hope for less disingenuity, and more grace and honesty. It appears decpeption isn't only a White thing, eh? Like I said, pathetic.

I will have to respond to your other issues later, I gotta go.

I'll be looking forward to your response(s).

Sista:
@ kag

It is interesting how you didn't post the full qoute, here is the quote in full,

You will do anything to prove a point, including telling only half the truth.

Are you kidding? Half truth? Here it is again:

Sista: @ Kag


I had to give the story behind the Dogon just in case some people had a familiarity. That is a way to get the discussion going.

KAG: Really? It seemed lik[e] you actually posted the story to bolster your aliens do exist claim.

Sista: On the other hand though, I didn't say I believed the story but I am also am not saying I don't believe the story.

KAG: So which is it?



I'll just assume you missed it, and it wasn't something nefarious (sp?). It's also interesting to note that so far, I'm the only one taht has consistently quoted and tried to acknowledge any points, questions, etc that either of you has made.

P.S. I expect an apology or something akin to recanting your assertion.

Sista:
@ Kag

You said you didn't say that Saigon theorized?



You added a lot to what you supposedly did not say but you were basically still saying the same even in your additions. You did say that Saigon Theorized that the Dogon could not have known about the Sirius star system with out the Westerner influence. You may have not said it the way that I worded it but you said it. Anyone can just read the above.  You try to play with the English language a lot but I can not be fooled. I have been spaeking English all my life, I know about the tricks.

If you read my response again, you'd realise that I highlighted a part of your post, and it was the highlighted part that made me post my actual words.

Once again:
"the Dogon must have gotten their information from western scientist a long time ago because the Dogon did not have what it took to be able to see the star, Sirius B"

The highlighted part implies things - ideas - that I would not associated with me or my posts. No playing with the English language, and in fact that's the second time you've intimated the idea, although you did refuse to tell me when and how I "manipulated the English language" in your first accusation.

You'ld also realise, that I didn't stop at, "what, I didn't say Sagan theorised".

Also, you've managed to evade the point again.

Sometimes I think people like you use Nairaland to test their new English skills.

You?

Sista:
@ Kag


I had to give the story behind the Dogon just in case some people had a familiarity. That is a way to get the discussion going.

Really? It seemed lik you actually posted the story to bolster your aliens do exist claim.

On the other hand though, I didn't say I believed the story but I am also am not saying I don't believe the story.

So which is it?

Even myths have pieces of the truth if not the entire truth.

Most don't.

White people call it myth because they white people believe that they have to be proven to, when, who are they? You can't go around discrediting people because they have not proved to you. Again, white people want to be in charge and they always want to be in other peoples business.

Yes, that must be it - the white people "blah blah". Excuse me while I go sacrifice at the altar of Zeus, I wouldn't want him chucking any bolts of lightening in my direction.

Remember it was them white people that kept going to Mali bothering the Dogon, the Dogon was not going to there country and bothering them.

Well, apart from the trading and things of that nature, you are right, but that's what anthropologists and people that want to experience other parts of the world do.

The greeks were renowned for their acceptance? What makes you think the Greeks accepted the Egytpians Blacks? It was the Greeks that came into Africa and went to the Egyption university's. They (Greeks) wanted and African education so, it was the other way around. The Egyptians accepted them and in return they (Greeks) stabbed the Egyptians in the back. The Greeks showed no respect.

Yes the Greeks were renown for their acceptance, I gave reports of the Library of Alexandria as an example. By all accounts, the library openly referenced Egyptians and their influence.

His Greek followers did such as Alexander and that is how he (Hippocrates) obtained the notion of medicine. Hippocrates wouldn't know what he knew about medicine if it wasn't for a black man, Imhotep; but did he give the black man credit? Nope, instead he took all the credit for his self. Something white people almost always do.

If indeed he did learn from Imhotep, then his not mentioning his teacher is probably an oversight that many people, both black and white, are guilty. You wouldn't happen to know the names of the teachers that influenced the Black people in that list of Black inventors you gave, would you?

By the way, I don't think he conferred the accolades on himself, history did that.

But, what does this have to do with the fact that you gave full credit to a Greek, Hippocrates as the father of medicine? I see you have not responded about Imhotep being the real father of medicine. What is that all about? You just can't give a black man credit.

You missed the "fair enough", didn't you?


By the way, have you found out which black or asian person Curie and the others I mentioned, stole from? We (and by we, I mean me) are waiting with bated breath for the evidence.[quote][/quote]

kabiyesi link=topic=2272.msg593671#msg593671

date=1157542274:
KAG ~ It seems as if you 've a problem with the English language.

It would appear you have the same problem too.

When you look at the sky at night, don't you see visible stars?

When I did mention Sirius being the brightest star in the sky, common sense should 've told you that it's thus, visible. Do I need to be more explicit?

Slowly, so you can comprehend. I ----- know ------ that, I've ----- said ----- as ------ much. Perhaps -----that------point------was-----meant-----for------Sista?

The orbital path of Sirius B was given to the initiates in the 1930's and it was only in the 1970's that the West was able to determine the elliptical trajectory of Sirius B. Why didn't your so called benevolent "astronomers who were in the vicinity and discussed astronomy with the avid Dogons" never knew about this until the 70's?

Because modern astronomy was not yet advanced to either verify or refute this Dogon's knowledge until the 1970's.

The path wasn't confirmed until the 70's. It's trajectory had however been suspected and hypothesised.

Mr Wikipedia, do search on "Sumerians black headed" and "Oannes". I don't need to spoon feed you any longer.

The Babylonians also hade the same myth, the Sumerians were from around the Middle East, but in any case those are besides the point. What I asked - and you've evaded the question - was, yes they share a similar space people myth, what's your point? They certainly don't share the information we are debating, so once again, what is your point?

What is the difference between your link and what NASA says?

Here is from your link:

Fr. or Msgr. Lemaître proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, although he called it his 'hypothesis of the primeval atom'. He based his theory, first broached in the pages of Nature in 1931, on the laws of relativity set forth by Einstein, among others, although at the time Einstein believed in an eternal universe and had previously expressed his skepticism about Lemaitre's original 1927 paper.

NASA says the Big Bang was as a result of an explosion of a primeval atom ~ a cosmic explosion that hurled matter and in all directions.

According to your logic, "Big Bang isn't about a star exploding". So tell the world what is an explosion of a primeval atom?

First of all, a star isn't a primerval atom, that much you should know from Astronomy 101.

Second, the Big Bang theory "explains the expansion of the Universe from a singularity after the Plank epoch, amongst other things, which includes the immediate after effects of the Big Bang, the existence of space, the onset of time etc."

(http://www.naijaryders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146852&page=2).

Stars didn't exist before the Big Bang (and for a good while after the

Big Bang).

Finally, why did you highlight [Einstein] "expressed his skepticism"?

That is the explanation of a star, a primordial star. Then what is a star? A Star is a Sun, a distant one. A Sun is also a Star. You never knew? To better understand the Sun (Star), google search on "Sun Nuclear Fusion". O ga o.

I separated this part, so I can stress the point - a star isn't an atom; and the Sun is a star, yes. The nuclear fusion confusion (ha ha), stemmed from this post of yours:

"So you never knew that an explosion of a star, which is the nuclear fusion of an atom, results in the formation of other heavenly bodies?"

I'm still slightly puzzled, but I'm beginning to suspect "Eats, shoots and leaves", may be playing a small part in some of it.

I can't laugh. Your childish thought is becoming unbearable. Your Carl Sagan was telling you of what 'll happen if there were to be Nuclear War between US and USSR, because you and I, and others 'll not be here. So what is the beef about that? Every intelligent person knows what 'll happen in a Nuclear Exchange between the two Superpowers. It shows your lack of intelligence.

Ha ha, not only are you duplicitous, but it appears you are as dense as two short planks (Ed: hey, that's an insult to short planks).

Nuclear winter wasn't simply about nuclear war between the U.S and the USSR, it was on the far reaching, and greatly exaggerated effects of nuclear weapons. Sagan was anti-nuclear weapons and all its trappings, a stance that is as against the government favoured line as any.

Your "whole Sadaam/Kuwait saga, and the oil fields" is just beating

about the bush.

Sigh, no it isn't. Sagan was against the liberation of Kuwait based primarily on his whole nuclear winter craze. His ideas on the oil fields burning were just as wrong as his ideas on the effects of nuclear weapons.

She (http://www.chicagoboyz.net/archives/003931.html) sums it up rather well

So you 've a copyright on this link? And the testimonies of both the Cosmonauts and the Astronauts were just taken out of context? And as far as you're concerned, they're not credible? Did you read the whole page? If the Astronauts could say this publicly despite the gag order, what 'll they say in private?

Yes I read the whole page, and it seems you really don't get it. You've provided a page with quote mines as your evidence. What's worse many of those quote mines don't even have a reference that can be used to check the validity of the quotes used, or to verify the context.

Let's see an example:

[b]In a strange twist of events, it has been discovered that Kabiyesi is actually rooting for the other team. That's right, he is a keen supporter of the "Westerners told the Dogons all they needed to know about Sirius" idea. Many say taht would actually explain some of his extremely bizarre statements.

We've been able to uncover a statement he made three months ago about the entire saga (before he entered this thread).

"How on Earth can primitive Africans know anything of that sort?" He asked. It is clear that their knowledge must have come from […] wise Europeans,  I absolutely look up to our Western cousins, and I hope Africa can be like Europe

- A statement made by Kabiyesi three months ago.

Indeed folks say it's no surprise, as other things he has mentioned in this thread bolsters the fact he is anti- the Dogons. Like for example, this gems:

"some "kind westerners" were the ones that impacted the knowledge to the Great* Dogon, [and] over the years, the West 've sent emissaries to the Dogon"

"Benevolent "astronomers who were in the vicinity,  discussed astronomy with the avid Dogons"

*Great as in vast or many.

- all found in this thread.



His companion, "Sista", had this to say:

[I totally agree, and I've have been known to say], "Sometime after 1928, a Westerner with a compulsion to impart obscure knowledge must have visited the tribe and told them about the discovery of Sirius' satellite", [and] western Astronomers did visit the Dogon a long time ago and tell (sic) them about the star"[/b]



Now, although technically those words do, for the most part, appear in your posts, it is clear that I've taken them out of context to make it appear you meant something you didn't. The only difference between my example and the site you posted, is that my quote mines can be easily cross checked in this thread.

If you want to make a fool of yourself in public, I'll definitely assist you in that endeavor.

LoL. By the way, you wouldn't happen to have found the evidence for these extraordinary claims you made, would you?

"The Dogon 've acquired this knowledge over millennia. Over the years, the West 've sent emissaries to the Dogon in order to retrieve more info from them, but the Dogon 'll never reveal anything to non-initiates."

"Many of the knowledge credited to the West were infact gathered by the missionaries from the natives and then dispatched back to the home office, where reverse-engineering could then be conducted."

kabiyesi:
KAG ~ You're so confused. It becomes obvious you don't know much about the cosmos.

Oh? Strong words from a guy who thiks the Big Bang was a star exploding.

I said that, star system Sirius is the brightest star in the sky, which means anyone that can look up in the sky can see it. It doesn't mean that the Dogon were the first ones to see it. Any nomad should 've known about it. And Sirius B, despite being invisible to the naked eye, could still 've being seen with any large telescope of hundreds of years ago.

I know, I said that as well, what's your point? Perhaps that bit was intended for da Sista?

It was only in the 1970's that modern astronomy was able to confirm the elliptical trajectory of Sirius B.

Ah, so that's what you meant, and not "It was only in the 1970's that modern astronomy was able to confirm the existence of the Sirius B etc", which was what the writer seemed to have been suggesting. No harm done I suppose.

P.S. were you the original author of that bit on Sirius that you posted?

Your ignorance lies with the notion that some "kind westerners" were the ones that impacted the knowledge to the Great Dogon.

No, my skeptism lies in the fact that it's more plausible that astronomers who were in the vicinity discussed astronomy with the avid Dogons, than some stellar ignorant ETs told the Dogons.

The Dogon 've acquired this knowledge over millennia. Over the years, the West 've sent emissaries to the Dogon in order to retrieve more info from them, but the Dogon 'll never reveal anything to non-initiates.

Evidence, and evidence?

Here is your Carl Sagan's assertion on the supposed benevolence of the Jesuit scholarship w.r.t the Great Dogon of Mali:

[url]http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tworx115.htm

Passing Europeans, media influence, astronomers = Jesuits? Anyhoo, fair enough, one Jesuit reference down, two (?) more to go.

Dogon's belief in "fish-like aliens from space" is similar to that of Oannes in the Sumerian belief system. I thought the West says Sumeria is the Cradle of Civilization? In fact, the Sumerians referred to themselves as the Black Headed People, Baba Dudu.

Weren't the Sumerians Middle Eastern, Persian, or something of that nature? And yes they share a common space alien mythlogy, did you have a point to make with that?

Where is your proof that your Carl Sagan never followed the official line? Any proof of his "own outlandish beliefs" that was contrary to the official stance?

"Nuclear winter", nuff' said. Boy was he ever so wrong about that. Another had to do with the whole Sadaam/Kuwait saga, and the oil fields. A link on Nuclear winter: http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/sagan_nuclear_winter.html

Here is the UFO TESTIMONIES FROM ASTRONAUTS AND COSMONAUTS:

[url]http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/UFO_Testimonies.htm#Astronauts%20and%20Cosmonauts[/url]

You are kidding, right? Quote mines (they certainly fit the bill) are your evidence for astronauts and cosmonauts proving Sagan wrong? Quotes that not only look like they've definitely be taken out of context, but many without any actual reference. Hmm, I guess it isn't only Creationists that do it.

I would have loved to post some of the more amusing ones - like the Neil Armstrong one - but its not allowing me to copy/paste. Shame.

NASA says "according to the big bang, the universe was created sometime between 10 billion and 20 billion years ago from a cosmic explosion that hurled matter and in all directions. In 1927, the Belgian priest Georges Lemaître was the first to propose that the universe began with the explosion of a primeval atom."

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.html

Now they're giving the credit to a priest. Where did the Jesuit get the info from? By miracle?

I know what the Big Bang theory is, and you still have it wrong, the Big Bang isn't about a star exploding. Did you bother even clicking on the link I gave?

By the way, the priest got his information by using what he observed, you know, "on the laws of relativity set forth by Einstein, among others," (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre)

Many of the knowledge credited to the West were infact gathered by the missionaries from the natives and then dispatched back to the home office, where reverse-engineering could then be conducted.

Evidence?

So you never knew that an explosion of a star, which is the nuclear fusion of an atom, results in the formation of other heavenly bodies? O ma se o.

What?

This is what I said, "Dogon also says that the orbit of Sirius B is the center of the Universe, without its movement no heavenly body could maintain itself. In that, Sirius B is the regulator of all celestial positions". If you disagreed with that, go to Mali and tell the Dogon.

I assumed you agreed with that, my apologies. In any case, they appear to be wrong.

Up till now, the West does not know what regulates the celestial positions. Why is the moon not colliding with Earth? Why are other planets not in collision? There must be a cosmic regulator. Abi

It won't be a star some light years away, causing, or not causing, all of that in the Universe. And physicists (of several kinds) do have theories to explain the several celestial phenomena.

Sista:
@Kabiyesi

I think I didn't respond to another one of his responses to me, I will do it later.

You go ahead and handle your business, I think he is white or truly a brainwashed black man. It is not going to us any good but we have to respond to him anyway so that others might know the information.

I'm going to bed, talk later, night night.

No, I'm a Jesuit, or a brainwashed Jewish man.

Sista:
@Kag
I didn't say that I believed that fish people really came to visit the Dogon, I just said that this is what the Dogon told the story of.

Fair enough.

Edit: Actually on second thoughts, not fair at all. You posted the Dogons' story to support your claim that aliens do exist. So, you may not believe fish-like aliens visited the Dogons, but your posts do suggest that you, at the very least, accept aliens came to the Dogons and gave them celestial news.

Weather it is true or not, only the Dogons know.

Reason and logic suggest it's a myth.

It could be that they did not want to tell the white scientist how they really got their information because they knew, either way it went, some how the white scientist would find a way to discredit them, a bit of Dogon humor, who knows. What is the truth though is, the Dogon knew of that Sirius star system before the white scientist even stepped foot into Mali.

No, it's pretty clear that it's embedded in their mythology. Also, while it's reasonable and probably apparent that the Dogons knew of Sirius before contact with Western astrology, it's highly debatable that they knew of Sirius B, amongst other things, before Western astronomy.

The whole reason why we even got on this part was because you said Saigon theorized that the Dogon must have gotten their information from western scientist a long time ago because the Dogon did not have what it took to be able to see the star, Sirius B. Now you want to take back that it was a Saigon theory and make it a fact?

What? First, I didn't say Sagan theorised that "the Dogon must have gotten their information from western scientist a long time ago because the Dogon did not have what it took to be able to see the star, Sirius B", what I actually said was:

"His theory (and to be certain he wasn't the only one) was based on different factors and inconsistencies in the saga. Factors which included the possible "cultural contamination on the part of visiting astronomers who went to the region to observe a transit of Venus", with the Dogons apparent interest in astronomy, it's easy to envision how a higher upper - like say a priest or shaman -  could have entered into a discussion on Sirius and how it became incorporated into their religion and myths that were already based on "heavenly" matters."

Second, I have no idea what you mean by "Now you want to take back that it was a Saigon theory and make it a fact?", because I wasn't taking anything back, or making any theory fact. What I was responding to, and you deftly managed to ignore the point of the response, was this,  "why didn't those westerners document their findings of the star? Where is their Documentation that they knew this star".

I looked at the link you provided me with, it states that the Dogon knew about the Sirius system before it's discovery in 1840.

Where does it state that?

The speculation that the Dogon must have had outside help was do to hearsay. Supposedly, the the Dogon also knew about the four moons orbiting Jupiter but the scientist said that Jupiter has more than four. The four moons they say that the Dogon were talking about can be seen with simple telescopes and therefore, for the Dogon to only know about the four, they must have had western scientist who visited them with these simple telescopes. Again, if that were true, those western scientist would have documented that as a fact and the Sirius system would have been documented as a discovery way before 1840

It's based on the inconsistencies and the similarity to western astronomy at the time, like for example Jupiter having four moons (there are more than four), Saturn being the furthest planet (it isn't, and it isn't even the only ringed planet). James Oberg has a great write up on the issue. Also, the astronomers mentioned by Sagan were astroomers who went there on a Venus sighting expedition.

Western Scientist, Engineers and so fourth can't even figure out how the pyramids were built. They hated to think that black people, Egyptians could have this vast knowledge so they tried to give the credit to the white Jews who are not really Jews according to Ancient proof. I guess people are no longer believing that the Jews built the pyramids or that they were even enslaved by the Egyptians. Another little white lie

Lots of manpower and great ingenuity; and yes Western scientists hate the fact that blackeople had that knowledge, that's why they decided to label it one of the "great wonders of the world", that's why practically every writing on the pyramids, speaks of the gretness of the Egyptians, that's why Colin Wilson for example has marvelled at their way of thinking and endorses and theorises on how we in modern times can aspire to think in that way. Yes the hate is palpable.

By the way, the "Jews were slaves" bit is based on what is ow known colloqially in our par of the world, as the Old Testament of the Bible. No srious scholar or theologian would ever claim that the Jews "built it", they would say based on the Biblical account, they were slaves used for the manual constucttion of the pyramids.

You are right though, no evidence exists for the enslavement of the Jews by the Egyptians, but it's usually those lying white bastards that say that, so you can't believe any word they say.

Oh, that is funny to you that you are LOL? Yes it is a ploy. You don't think that the Dogon are black people? You must be an advocate of separatism. You can't seperate black people like little pieces of puzzles because even if you do, we still manage to fit the pieces back correctly and come together again. Black is black, I don't care what part of the planet you reside on.

LoL, no, it was reference to your previous accusation that I was trying to discredit the Dogons.

Behind every successful white man is a Black man, Black woman, Asian man and who ever else  they(White people) have murdered and stole from. White people have been piggy backing off of the talents and ideas of black people and people of color sense the beginning of time, they still do it to this day.

Is that so? From which black/blah blah people did Marie Curie steal her findings? And Baird? What abot Crick et al? Oh, and Borlaug, which aisn or black person did he steal from? Start backing up your accusations. A thousand shells if you can also tell us who Darwin and/or Wallace murdered and stole from.

Theologians politely call what white people do borrowing, but you can't borrow something you don't give back. You named to many things for me to go into but let me shock you with something. Hippocrates does not predate Imhotep. [all of that]

Fai enough, although I don't think it is fair to say Hippocrates stole and murdered black people to get his knowledge. The Greeks were renowned for their acceptance of otehr cultures, and corresponding cordially with scientists from other cultures. That in itself becomes apparent when the details of the tragically destroyed Library of Alexandria is taken into account.

In a idealistc world it would be safe to believe everything our qoute on qoute great scholars write but we live in a world of Politics and Capitalism.

I said that to say this, the most wicked way to stay on top is to succesfully discredit anyone who can make you look less, look inferior. The best way to do that is to project fear. The fear of white people has been projected through the usage of weaponery. Anytime a human can come up with the idea of some type of device such as an atomic bomb that can take out the enitire planet ,you gotta bet that his plan is to induce fear that will by any means necessary keep him on top.

That's wonderful, but that still doesn't mean the colour of a person's skin determines the content of their science write up. So, once again, " there's been nothing wrong with the science based evidences I've presented, and if your prejudice won't allow you to view them, then that's your call. I, however, think your request is nothing more than an attempt at obfuscation.

P.s here is another website where you can go to look at the black inventors that white people piggy back off.

http://inventors.about.com/library/blblackinventors.htm

Strange way to word it, glancing through, it bcomes apparent that they are/were inventors of several things who got credit for their endeavours. Not much piggybacking there, unless I'm missing something.

dakmanzero:
Yup

you right nigga. we's all animated iron eja-dadi mackierel.

*takes another puff of deh hookah*

peeeeeace and leuuuuuurve in the yuuuniverse. Jah for ever, mon! jah make deh ganja, jah make deh hevin, is no long fo babylon, ma bruddas, jeeeesas is deh waaaayyyyyyyyyyyy *puff*

True talk.

olabowale:
To all the evolution proponents, please tell me where iron ore comes from. please do not talk about it unless you know the subject very well. Please give the amount of energy that is in the molecular volume/structre of it. Now tell me if you know what occurred first and how is metal (iron) is transformed to say, Fish. When you can find clear and direct relationships, then you will know that God creats all things. The DNA of Potato is even close to mans than the DNA of Apes to Mans. The Biologist and Chemist amount you should respond, along with the Medical Doctors and any relevant scientific descipline. The Big Bang is a sound. We all agree that Moses (AS) heard the voice of his Lord. This is sound too. The commandment for creation is also sound 'BE".

Oh, for f@&k's sake! I didn't think it could get any worse, but I guess I was terrible wrong. Read through the bleeding thread, and try at least understand what the theory of evolution is about. For flips sake! And why don't you provide some scientific evidence for the potato's DNA being closer to Man, than other apes. It also appears your knowledge on the Big Bang and sound in space is as severely lacking as your knowledge on the other sciences. Not much of surprise there I suppose.

Please if you do not know anything about this so not give me anty opinion.

Ha ha ha, no wait, buhahhahhahaha. It doesn't get any more ironic.

Further, to butress my statement about Creationizm, read the Qur'an. In it you will find scientific knowledge of gigantic proportions. You will find also the exact amount of the number of bones in the body of man in the hadith of Muhammad (AS). Yes I am a Muslim. Yes I am grateful to God who has made me a muslim. I am a Yoruba and yes the peoiple who have been making fun of the Northerners should be ashamed of themselves. I wonder how you feel when the Whites in the so called new worlds make fun of your Africanness. Of course, they will be wrong and here you are wrong as well.

God crteated all things and if you believe that things evolved please proof it and you will never be able regardless all your conjecture. God is real and He will be the One who will judge all when we are all recreated, an easier task.

That's wonderful, by the way, evolution =/= atheism.

kabiyesi:
KAG ~ I shouldn't be surprised at the way you revere Carl Sagan, it shows how extremely limited your knowledge is.

Wait, because I alledgedly revere Carl Sagan, therefore my knowledge is extremely limited? Fine leap of logic there, unfortunately I don't care very much for leapfroggers, especially those who do it ever so illogically.

By the way, I don't take anyone that quotes wikipedia seriously. Anyone can go to wikipedia and put garbage in there. I 've never come across any article in wikipedia that discredits official western version of events. It shows how gullible you're.

Good thing the wiki quotes weren't intended for you then, and thankfully those who have read it or will read it have enough intelligence to know how to verify them with external sources, if they have a problem with them. Although why the data I posted from Wiki should be a problem or be wrong, is something you'll have to explain.

Besides, there are several measures used to make the content on Wiki as accurate as possible.

Carl Sagan was the mouthpiece of the establishment. His job was to discredit anything that does not tow the official line. Why should one expect him to give credit to Africans?

Don't be silly, he also had his own outlandish beliefs which definitely didn't "tow the offical line" (whatever that is). What you seem to be referring to, was his call for skeptism and rebuttals for claims that lacked merit.

By the way, if you call accepting claims like, "fish-like aliens came from space to tell the Dogons about Sirius B" giving credit to Africans, then I say bleh!

Despite all physical evidences and eye witnesses on UFO and advance beings, he stubbornly denied and discredited their existence. US Astronauts and the Russian Cosmonauts proved him wrong on these, since they were in space and knew what they saw. It is not too late to purge yourself from this conditioned subconscious programming.

Please! Anecdotes and intangible claims do not physical evidence make, eye witness maybe, but with the wildly inconsistent tales are rightly discounted. Sorry, but which US astronauts and Russian cosmonauts poved him wrong? On what?

The Colonial French were persistent in knowing about Dogon's tradition. In 1934, two Frenchmen, Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen were initiated into Dogon's secret society, the elementary stage, and the mystery of a binary star system was revealed to the Frenchmen. In that, life on earth was created by advance beings from advance civilizations and their abode is the star system Sirius, which is the most brilliant star in the sky.

According to the Dogon, a minuscule white dwarf star invisible to the naked eye, Sirius B, revolves around a bigger star Sirius A, once every fifty years. Sirius B's enormous density and elliptical trajectory were given to these initiates, back in 1934. It was only in the 1970's that modern astronomy was able to confirm it. In addition, modern astronomy has not being able to confirm or invalidate Dogon's claim that Sirius B makes a yearly complete revolution around its axis. Dogon also says that the orbit of Sirius B is the center of the Universe, without its movement no heavenly body could maintain itself. In that, Sirius B is the regulator of all celestial positions. Moreover, the Dogon says that there's a third star, Sirius C, that also revolves around Sirius A, every fifty years. Sirius C is said to be more voluminous but four times lighter than Sirius B.

First, "Sirius-B, was discovered visually in 1862 and identified as a white dwarf, by a spectrum obtained in 1915 (and because you don't like Wiki, http://www.obspm.fr/actual/nouvelle/bobi_hist_en.html).

Second, Sirius B isn't the "center" of the Universe, because the Universe doesn't have a centre, and it's clear the many cestial bodies beyond the reach of Sirius B can't be controlled by Sirius B.

The question now is if the Jesuits, according to your Carl Sagan, knew and gave the knowledge to the Dogon, why didn't they also give it to their brethren? The western scientists 'll 've documented it. Supposing your Jesuits knew, then who gave the knowledge to them? By miracle? And it was never documented? That is preposterous.

What Jesuits? What is it with conspiracy theorists of the NWO variant, and jesuits? Anyway, it was widely know amongst not only the astronmy community, but to some extent the media too. See, the fact that you still think it was found in 1970 for an example.

Remember that your Jesuits use to believe that the Earth was flat and the Earth was the center of the Universe. I rest my case.

What bleeding Jesuits? First, many didn't actually believe the Earth was flat, a spherical Earth had been believed since |(or probably before) the Egyptians. However, many did interpret the Bible in that way, whether the writes meant it in that way, is up for debate (although, IMO, the writers did get it wrong).

Second, that belief wasn't held by just the "Jesuits", many cultures did believe that, but you'll find that not only do I agree that they were wrong, I'm anti- those who hold to that belief gotten from their Biblical interpretation - you could say I'm againgt that myth. I suppose that makes me either a White man trying to discredit the Jews, or a brain washed Jew.

P.S. I rest my case.

I need to ask you, what is the Big Bang? Bing Bang theory says there was a cosmic explosion that hurled matter in all directions. Something must 've exploded? What's it? A primordial star. Explosion of a star results in the formation of other heavenly bodies. Thus, it seems you're confused. This is Astronomy 101.

Good heavens no. Maybe you should read your "Astronomy 101" book again, and pay attention to what the Big Bang theory is and isn't. I would explain, but I'm still on an attempt to abstain from serious science thing. Alternatively, you could read http://www.naijaryders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146852 It's not perfect, but it helps.

If you're good in French, check for Dieu d'eau, written by one of the Dogon initiates, Marcel Griaule. Or check for the English translation in the book written by Cheikh Anta Diop:

Civilization or Barbarism: An Authentic Anthropology, pg 313 - 323.

My French is marginal (as far as this things go), so I'll have to go iwt the English when I get a chance. Thanks.

Sista:
@ Kag

KAG: You didn't bother reading the link, did you? Alright, the term "scorcher" came from the Greek, and it's easy to see how it got its name independent of the alledged interstellar knowledge of the Dogons. Furthermore, Sirius is "the major star of the "Big Dog" constellation, it is often called the "Dog Star"; the Latin name for this star is Canicula ("little dog" and in Arabic: الشعرى aš-ši‘rā in Islamic astronomy, from which the alternate name Al Shira derives. In Chinese the star is known as 天狼星 (Tiānláng xīng literally, “heavenly wolf star" (from the wiki link)



It's plain to see that other cultures have also used the "dog" or "canine" classification for Sirius, and while it's possible that they all improbably named the star after the Dogons, and those pesky White people (probably a cabal affiliated with "The Man" changed the name out of spite, but you'll understand why I don't give that thought much merit.

If it explains anything, it would explain why the constelation would be called Dog or canine or wolf but it does not explain why the star it self was called the "Dog star". You wouldn't call the stars in Orions belt Orions star belt would you? Those three stars in Orions belt have their own names although they are a part of the Orions and Orions belt Constellation. The stars that make up the constelation of the zodiac signs eachl have their own names as well but as a whole they make a single name to describe the constelation.

You didn't read anything I wrote, did you? Other cultures have given it a similar name, the star - Sirius - can be seen with the naked eye, and has been "found" from time immemorial, but yes it was named after the Dogons, and was only changed by the White man to spite the Dogons *rolls eyes*.

By the way, to answer your question, I would guess it was called the dog star because it was the major star of the Big Dog constellation, that or it's because dog like qlien came from there - can't be too sure though.

Sista:
@ Kag

You must be a white man who is trying to keep the lie going that black people are inferior to whites and whites are always right in there theories and skepticisms.

Or you must be a brain washed black man who has no idea what he is saying.

That, or you are a narrow minded person who has allowed the massive chip of blind prejudice on her shoulder, to dictate her myopic and often fallacious views.

I suppose in your topsy-turvy world of "those darn whiteys are blood suckers", the person who persists in mythic beliefs, and claims the Dogons were given information by fish like people from outer space, is the one actually do the Dogons a great service. How it makes sense, I don't know, but if it's anything like the old "the Egyptians couldn't have done it without aliens" - a claim that in actuality reduces the worth of the Egyptians - then I'm sure it makes perfect sense to the "everybody that disputes African mythology is against Africans" crowd.

First of all, if western Astronomers did visit the Dogon a long time ago and tell them about the star, why didn't those westerners document their findings of the star? Where is their Documentation that they knew this star and they shared the knowledge with the Dogon? Westerners document everything, even if it is a lie.

Erm, except they did document the finding of Sirius B. It was first suspected to esxist "based on changes in its proper motion, in 1844 Friedrich Wilhelm Bessel deduced that Sirius had a hidden companion. Nearly two decades later in 1862 Alvan Graham Clark discovered the faint companion, which is called Sirius B, or affectionately "the Pup".  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius).

It wasn't until recently that white scientist came to know about the star Sirius B. How can people who just found out about something, claim to have a theory on how the original people obtained the knowledge? When mind you they knew nothing until the original Dogon discovers of the star told them. Again, this is a ploy to discredit black people.

LoL, so now it's a ploy to discredit Black people, not just the Dogons, eh? Fact is they did demontravly know of Sirius B before contact with the Dogons. Even the popularizers of the Dogon myths, like for example Temple, should tell you that much - but wait, he's a white guy, nevermind then.

History shows that white people have never shared anything with black people. Black people if anything shared with them and what ever black people did not disclose to them, they found a way to steal.

Great point, you've hit the nail on the head. Which reminds me, I need to get off this computer that has come a long way since Babbage, but wait, I just saw something on my Baird TV about Borlaug's GM crops and how succesful it has been, maybe I should send him an e-mail over the internet. On second thoughts I'll use my Alexander Bell phone to call him.

In the mean time, you wouldn't happen to know what happened to the Wright's brothers plane, would you? I ask because my Edison light bulb looks a little like it. The only problem with it (my bulb that also reminds me of Coloumb), is it bizarrely contradicts Newton's and Einstien's gravity theories, maybe if I learn some Pythagoras and Descartes mathematics I can sort it out. If it does drop however, lets just hope I'm attended by a doctor that has taken the Hippocratic oath, and knows a few things about Crick et al. - you know, because I have a strange DNA.

As a final thought, if I do catch one of those lousy bacteria that Red Cross hospitals are so fond of, at least I can knock my attendee on the head with Darwin's "Origin of Species".

By the by, in case you are wondering, my doctor has to be black, don't want those selfish White bastards touching me.

So, this crap about some white people told the Dogon about the star is BS and another ploy for the white man to take ownership by falsely staking his claim.

No, it simply follows the fact. It's interesting though, you think fishy ET telling the Dogons about a star (and strangely enough, getting several things wrong along the way) is a-ok and shows the Dogons are - and I'm guessing here - intelligent, but think Westerners sharing astronomy ideas with the Dogons is nothing more than an attempt to steal from the Dogons. Interesting.

If you are going to debate with me, produce some scientific evidence that has been written by anyone except for white people. Can you do that?

No, can't do that. I don't base science evidence and other writings, on the colour of the scientistswriters skin. In fact more often than not, I don't know, and don't care to know, the race of most of the science writings I read. There's been nothing wrong with the science based evidences I've presented, and if your prejudice won't allow you to view them, then that's your call. I, however, think your request is nothing more than an attemp at obfuscation.

Don't you understand that the White man discredits his own people as well as everyone else, he must be first at all times. Any thing that he writes about black people is bias especially when it is based on his theory and no historical evidence.

Yes of course, when a nut like David "the queen is a reptile" Icke is refuted and discredited, it's because the White man/men, want to be first (que?), and when the likes of Colin Powell, Muhammed Ali, and the Egyptians are lauded, it's just the white bias showing. It all makes sense now.

[/quote][quote]

Sista:
@ Kag

If it is all rubbish, why do you then say that 270 is terrifying and 333 is terrifying if you don't think numbers attribute powers?

Maybe sarcasm really is the lowest form of humour, I mean what's the point if it's missed.

My directions were, add across until you get a single digit, try it again.

Nope, your directions were, and I quote: "For many people 666 is a taboo you know why? Add it across and you will see." Notice the difference?

270 is terrifying for the same taboo reasons why 666 is and 333 is. Again, you must add across until you get a single digit. You will see that they come out to be the same number. I won't tell you what that number is, your so smart I am sure you will figure it out .

Hmm, 270 and 333 are actually also terrifying numbers? Fancy that. At least I now know to avoid (i.e. hide in my flat) the 9th, 18th and 27th of this month. By the way, you wouldn't happen to know why many are terrified of 13, and why 40, 12 and 7 crop up several times in the Bible too, would you?

You are not trying to make a point, your mission is to discredit the Dogon people.

No, I was trying to make a point, and I have in fact made several points - evident from the fact that your initial argument which was fraught  with many mistakes (at least I'm hoping they were mistakes and not out and out falsehoods), has evolved significantly.

Furthermore, disputing mythical claims that contain inconsitensies and seem far fetched, isn't discrediting the people in my opinion, it's rebutting the claims. If I do the same for Jewish, Romans, and Greek myths (to name but a few), I don't see why the Dogon myths should get special dispensation.

Weather you think it is right to say or not to say, it is a fact. What you think does not matter here. Egypt is the sum total of Africa. That fact is here and there and it is not contrary to this discussion.

What makes it a fact? And what I think clearly does matter. In any case, I did say that the "Egypt is the sum of Africa" assertion has little bearing on the point I made refuting your original assertion (Astrology was first discovered by the Dogun people from Mali.). Irrespective of how you attempt to spin and ignore the point, civilisations like the Egyptians and Sumerians (I noticed you completely ignored the Sumerians) had astrology before the Dogons.

Save your manipulation of the English language, that does not work with me.

What manipulation of the English language? Where?

What you don't seem to want to understand is, sense the Dogon had this knowledge, they shared it with other Africans as well as Egyptians. Egyptians have their own creation story which is almost the same as the Dogon but slightly different very slightly. This is because Africans at the time were in accord, I bet you don't support that either?

Of course I don't support that. First, the Egyptian creation myth is really different from that of the Dogons.

Egyptian Creation myth:
"In the beginning there was only water, a chaos of churning, bubbling water, this the Egyptians called Nu or Nun. It was out of Nu that everything began. As with the Nile, each year the inundation no doubt caused chaos to all creatures living on the land, so this represents Nu. eventually the floods would recede and out of the chaos of water would emerge a hill of dry land, one at first, then more. On this first dry hilltop, on the first day came the first sunrise. So that is how the Egyptians explain the beginning of all things." (http://members.aol.com/egyptart/crea.html)



Dogons':
"According the the Dogon creation myth, the first offspring of the creator Amma was the pale fox. The pale fox is an unnatural and socially disruptive creature born without placenta and thus robbed at birth of his female counterpart. He is a symbol of oneness, or male without his female complement, and the myths of the pale fox demonstrate the chaos resulting from this imbalance of male and female qualities. " (http://www.sju.edu/cas/theology/Courses/1141/Dogon/Demott.htm)

Second, the Egyptians don't seem to have the Sirius B mythology and all of its trappings.

If you are not sure exactly that you have it right, save that debate for someone who will go for that.

What? That was a caveat because I was completely sure of the exact details of the Dogons' planetary (just Earth?) formation myth. I'm surprised you've chose to attack a caveat as opposed to the germane part that was a refutation to this blatantly racist and ill-informed rubbish: [b][i]"The Dogun don't call it the Big Bang but they describe it as  the Star exploding and Earth pouring out of it. White people call it the Big Bang, again their manipulated plagiarism.[i][b]"

By the way, what evidence are you referring to? Please tell me because right about now you definitely sound as though you are talking a bunch of rubbish.

First the Big Bang deals with the Universe coming to be; an expansion of space, and the incidence (right word?) of time - amongst other things - from perhaps a singuarity.

The theory of the formation of planets shows that planets (and other bodies) in our solar system may have formed through "gradual accretion from cosmic dust grains and gas particles within a primarily gaseous protoplanetary disk, which is itself a byproduct of the formation of the parent star from a dense, rotating interstellar cloud." (http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/P/plansysform.html)[quote][/quote]

Sista:
@ Kag

Egypt is the sum total of the entire Africa.

Egypt did not know all that they knew on their own, it was the contributions of the entire Africa including Egyptians that gave knowledge to upper Egypt.

That is why the first pyramids are in Egypt. Africans from many tribes made a journey to Egypt to contribute to the knowledge many different  Africans had. They traveled up the Nile into Egypt. That is one of the things the pyramids represent. Everyone on the bottom and in the middle contributing to the top, united we stand strong and tall but divided we fall. Also, the first universities were built in Egypt because Egypt represented the end of the top of Africa but the beginning to where learning about African knowledge begins, Upper Egypt the head of Africa.

I don't think it's right to say Egypt is the sum total of Africa, but that's neither here nor there as it doesn't even address the point I was making which was, contrary to what you claimed, "astrology was first discovered by the Dogun people", cultures like the Sumerians and Egyptians studied the stars before the alledged time of the Dogons alien visit.

You are right it is numerology but it is certainly not rubbish.

11 can't be the reincarnate of 1 because when you add 11 across to get a single digit it becomes 2.

When you add 10 across it becomes 1

No, it's rubbish. To attribute powers to and personify numbers in base 10 really is silly.

360 added across becomes 9. 9 represents the end.

Have you ever seen 666 in the bible? For many people 666 is a taboo you know why? Add it across and you will see.

6+6+6 = 18.  270 is a more terrifying number. And 333? Forget about it.

The Dogun don't call it the Big Bang but they describe it as  the Star exploding and Earth pouring out of it. White people call it the Big Bang, again their manipulated plagiarism.

Nonsense. The Big Bang theory is about the origins of the Universe, matter, time etc, and not some "star exploding and the Earth pouring out of it". Also, their idea of the Earth (alone?) coming from some Sirius like star (I'm not sure I have that exactly right) doesn't seem to go with the evidence.

0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20

Notice how we never get back to the 0 by it self but 0 still shows up from time to time. This is because there is only one beginning and there is never an ending. The 0 represents a warning, it tells us to prepare for a beginning because 1 which represents beginnings is about to come.

Alright.

How does the glowing or the scorcher become the Dog? Again, the Dog-on called it the Dog star first. White people changed the name like they change everything else.

You didn't bother reading the link, did you? Alright, the term "scorcher" came from the Greek, and it's easy to see how it got its name independent of the alledged interstellar knowledge of the Dogons. Furthermore, Sirius is "the major star of the "Big Dog" constellation, it is often called the "Dog Star"; the Latin name for this star is Canicula ("little dog" and in Arabic: الشعرى aš-ši‘rā in Islamic astronomy, from which the alternate name Al Shira derives. In Chinese the star is known as 天狼星 (Tiānláng xīng literally, “heavenly wolf star" (from the wiki link)

https://i6.tinypic.com/27zbyh4.png

It's plain to see that other cultures have also used the "dog" or "canine" classification for Sirius, and while it's possible that they all improbably named the star after the Dogons, and those pesky White people (probably a cabal affiliated with "The Man" changed the name out of spite, but you'll understand why I don't give that thought much merit.

That is BS and I think you know it. Sagan theorised? who the hell is this man to give a theory about African people? You sound like you don't even know what you are talking about when you bother to mention that to me. What proof did Sagan have for thisr theroy except for pure speculation based on the fact that the white mans view on the Dogons discovery of the star was purely circumstantial?

First, I mentioned that little tidbit ot show why this claim of yours "any how the white scientist put a telscope in the sky at the exact degrees the Dogun people told them the star was and they found the star", was false. Sirius B had been discovered before contact with the Dogons, and Sirius from ages past.

Second, Sagan was a legend in his own right. He was an "astronomer, astrobiologist, and highly successful science popularizer. He pioneered exobiology and avidly promoted the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI)." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_sagan). He had a thing to say about it, because he was skeptical of the claims made on behalf of the Dogons. His theory (and to be certain he wasn't the only one) was based on different factors and inconsistencies in the saga. Factors which included the possible "cultural contamination on the part of visiting astronomers who went to the region to observe a transit of Venus", with the Dogons apparent interest in astronomy, it's easy to envision how a higher upper - like say a priest or shaman -  could have entered into a discussion on Sirius and how it became incorporated into their religion and myths that were already based on "heavenly" matters.

Although, I haven't read Broca's Brain yet (I'm still reading Cosmos), from what I understand, Sagan does state his case well.

Also I noticed that your tone suggest that you are not really serious about this subject, I get the impression that you just want to make a mockery of this whole idea, please spare me the tone, I don't like it.

Ignore my tone and whatever form it may decide to take (it's a tricky bastard, my tone, and it has different effects on different pople), it's irrelevant to the rebuttal and responses I have given and will be giving.

If you want to read about the Dogon you can refer to this sight.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/dogon.htm

Thanks.

Oh boy, I remember this train wreck of a thread, but the again any thread that starts off recounting gleefully how a supposedly loving God turned into a dim witted hitman, probably isn't going to be that good a thread anyway.

Bobbyaf:
Wish you all the best in life. Bye!

Thank you; I wish all the best too.