Even a Nobel prize winner had this to say:

"Genes are just information encoded along a long string of the chemical DNA; they cannot do anything themselves."
David Baltimore, Nobel Prize Winner"

Bobbyaf:

Abiogenesis is absurd and you know it, so don't continue with the absurdity any longer.

At least he's stopped calling it evolution, a step in the rigt direction.

Life can only come from life. You cannot make life from dead chemicals. There is no science to explain the mysteries of life.

I take it you've never heard of protocells then. Protocells are essentially life (look up Webster's definition of life) from non-life. Webster's definition: "c : an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction" (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=life). Protocells do all of the listed.

Ever wondered why all these scientists are so excited when they discover something on Mars or some other planet? Its because they are hoping to find something that would back up their athiestic views and theories.

Yes, we all know scientists are all evil, atheistic devils.

If other planets went through a similar experience, like planet earth, seeing that they belong to the same galaxy, why aren't any life forms present on those planets? Why hasn't abiogenesis occured? hahahahahahaha,

We've only been able to look properly at about two or three out of the many planets in our galaxy, and been able to find a very, very, very, very, very tiny proportion of planets out of the uncountable number of planets in the Universe. Furthermore, other planets haven't necessarily gone through a similar experience, and that's immediately apparent if you look them up.

Spontaneous generation has been disproved long ago to lack real and substantive evidence, but somehow certain protaganists of abiogenesis can't seem to sleep at nights, so thay have nothing better to do but fill up in peoples' heads with sophisticated yet highly speculative jargon.

Yes spontaneous generation has been falsified, but only Creationists seem to bring it up, funny that.

Its always easy for people to say that abiogenesis occured, but wouldn't it be more in their favour to say how it can happen. Why not give us a break down using present-day chemical and biomolecular materials to prove the facts. Instead you all play mind games with people, at least the average people, knowing fully well that no one gives a hoot and interest in looking at the details, because if they did the truth will come out.

You obviously fit that bill. In any case several hypothesis for how abiogenesis may have occured are i existence, several of those hypothesis have working theories, and despite a dip in funding (from what a hear) work on abiogenesis is still going strong.

In fact the law of probability for the chance of abiogenesis occurng is 1:10 to the power of 50 according to higher mathematics, which makes this totally impossible.

If you're as clueless as Hoyle or Spetner, yes. If however you understand probability calculations and chemistry, you'ld quickly realise why that figure is stupid.

In essence dead chemicals cannot guide themselves into such orderly and complex formations. There had to be a designer who intricately placed things in place for life to have begun and contnue as is.

No.

Goodly readers w eare faced with two choices and chances that have to do with how life began. All we need to know is if one of those chances is wrong to accept the other as true. Both can't be true, and both can't be wrong. Its either or either. (eether or ither)

So statistically God comes out the winner. Modern science and higher mathematics in their own unique way continue to prove the reality.

False dichotomy, illogical deduction mostly based on ignorance, and unevidenced conclusion.

Bobbyaf:

Even a Nobel prize winner had this to say:

"Genes are just information encoded along a long string of the chemical DNA; they cannot do anything themselves."
David Baltimore, Nobel Prize Winner"

A sentence without a context or even a reference, quote mining at its finest . Quote mining makes baby Jesus cry.

The main links among the molecules-to-man theory would have to amount to millions for such a theory to come close to being accepted. The point is all these developments supposedly took place over billions of years according to the advocates of abiogenesis. They are yet to prove or show evidence of the links between:

1) how did the very molecules that they stress actually came about. They had to have come from somewhere, and even if they came from a source, where did such a source come from?

2) how simple molecules move to become complex molecules

3) complex molecules becoming simple oragnic molecules

4) simple organic molecules becoming complex organic molecules

5) complex organic molecules becoming DNA or similar information-storage molecules

6) and finally getting all these into a cell which is even far more complex in its structure than anything built by man.


Seriously now, would you expect people with common sense to believe that all these developments took place on their own, just by natural chance?

Goodly people can you find a more faith-based religion than this one called abiogenesis?  

…and without acknowledging corrections and responses, he duplicitiously shifted the goalposts. And it was loudly proclaimed, "he truly is a quintessential Creationist", and all the people didst say "Yea, he is a true Creationist"

Bobbyaf:



The main links among the molecules-to-man theory would have to amount to millions for such a theory to come close to being accepted. The point is all these developments supposedly took place over billions of years according to the advocates of abiogenesis.

First, there is no "molecules to man theory", there are theories that describe the evolution from inanimate the animate, and theories that explain the evolution of species, including humans, from common ancestors Two seperate fields of study.

Secondly, you don't have a problem with the age of the Earth too, do you?

They are yet to prove or show evidence of the links between:

Just because you are not only ignorant of them, but have chosen to remain ignorant of them (while arrogantly shouting from the rooftops), doesn't mean evidence hasn't been shown. In fact, did you even read my previous responses?

1) how did the very molecules that they stress actually came about. They had to have come from somewhere, and even if they came from a source, where did such a source come from?

This isn't going to be one those infinity paradox things Creationist are famous for, is it? You know, we give evidence for say the formation of planets, then you ask what came before the formation of planets, that's given too, and you ask for…, well you get the idea.

In any case, which molecules are you asking about?

2) how simple molecules move to become complex molecules

3) complex molecules becoming simple oragnic molecules

4) simple organic molecules becoming complex organic molecules

5) complex organic molecules becoming DNA or similar information-storage molecules

6) and finally getting all these into a cell which is even far more complex in its structure than anything built by man.

I metioned before that several hypothesis have been presented for abiogenesis (I've decided to use hypothesis, because although they - for the most part - have all the evidence for how life may have formed, I don't think they are falsifiable. They could very be though).

While it would be nigh on impossible to go indepth into everything - you are afterall asking quite a lot, and I still have no desire to discuss abiogenesis yet (not for another month, and like I metioned before for personal reasons), I will however start you off on the road of discovering abiogenesis, by not only mentioning my favorite, the protocell theory (remember the example of life coming from non-life I gave, and hoped you would look up), but by giving a few links.

http://www.asa3.org/archive/evolution/199907/0062.html and http://www.siu.edu/~protocell/


That's the most serious and indepth response on anything scientific you'll get out of me for the next month.

Seriously now, would you expect people with common sense to believe that all these developments took place on their own, just by natural chance?

Depends what you mean by "natural chance". In a sense almost everything that occurs is a result of "natural chance", that doesn't however hinder those things from occuring. Also, "common sense" (see: intuition) usually takes a back seat in light of sceince. That abiogenesis can occur has been shown, even down to the lab. creation of life from non-life. Several mechanisms for the path it may have taken have also been proffered.

Ever wondered why all these scientists are so excited when they discover something on Mars or some other planet? Its because they are hoping to find something that would back up their athiestic views and theories.

Goodly people can you find a more faith-based religion than this one called abiogenesis?

Step 3: Complain about the secular/atheist/antireligious stance scientists supposedly hold.

Step 4: Claim that evolution/abiogenesis isn't science but a religion. Claim that it takes more faith to believe in evolution/abiogenesis than it takes to believe in God.


It's almost uncanny.

What evidence have you supplied? Yours or what others have said existed? Read between the lines with a mind of your own. Don't swallow everything in the name of science. True science supports the bible and creation.

Pseudo-science supports abiogeneis, and the ToE.

You haven't reached the end of the road yet, but when you do you'll see its only a dead end for you. wake up!

Step 7: Persist in ignoring responses, desist from actually reading links that answer the questions you asked, and insist that you know what sciense is and isn't.

Bobbyaf:

What evidence have you supplied? Yours or what others have said existed? Read between the lines with a mind of your own. Don't swallow everything in the name of science.

Oh noes! My new super, duper irony meter just exploded. First, the evidence has been peer reviewed by several scientists, and many other scientists can and have followed and reproduced the results - and yes, I know there's a world wide conspiracy of scientists, but you (or one of those anti-religion scientists) can actually do it yourself and check them out.

Second, I have read the necessary material, and altough I probably haven't read between the lines (must be another variant of that spiritual eyes thing, you know the one where the words don't actually mean what they say, but say what you think it should mean instead - see the prophecy thing in this thread for example.), but I have understood what I've read.

True science supports the bible and creation.

LoL Pi is three, the Sun goes around the Earth, the Earth is flat.

Pseudo-science supports abiogeneis, and the ToE.

Says the man who clearly knows next to nothing about science

You haven't reached the end of the road yet, but when you do you'll see its only a dead end for you. wake up!

What road are we talking about here?

dp

But you're on the road and you don't even know it. Soon you'll see the end of the road, and that it is a dead end. By thenHi how goes?
it might/will be too late. Wake up its broad day light. Now is not the time to sleep. 

Bobbyaf,

You seem to be very persistent in your attacks against evolution. What you have done up till now is bring forth so called evidence against the TOE. All of your evidence [/i]has been thoroughly rebutted.
You seem to be quite certain that creationism offers a better explanation for the diversity of life on this planet. Now, here's your chance, instead of attacking the TOE with fake arguments and [i]evidence, why dont't you bring some evidence in favor of creationism? Some time ago, I created a thread especially for that purpose. Why don't you take up the challenge and present your evidence?
If you cannot do that satisfactory, it only means that you have no case at all.

You desire me to bring evidence in favour of creation, huh?

You already have the evidence. Just take a hard look around you and see the macro evidence. If you desire micro evidence look through an electron microscope.

What do these sources have in common? Order and design, the likes of which didn't come by chance.

Christians don't need to go into nitty gritty details about evidence, for we don't need to since we have a personal relationship with the Creator Himself who has revealed Himself to us in nature and Divine Revelation. In time you will come to know Him, or know about Him.

He has given you the free will to choose the ToE even above Him, but in time you'll come to see that that choice would have been the wrong one.

I am going to leave a text with you:

Revelation 21:6-8
6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Repent while you have time. Now is the hour to reject all man-made doctrines that have their source in Satan, and listen to God's calling. What if at the end of this road you discover that what you learned to accept as truth is all a lie? What then?

Peace!

You desire me to bring evidence in favour of creation?

You already have the evidence. Just take a hard look around you and see the macro evidence. If you desire micro evidence look through an electron microscope.

What do these sources have in common? Order and design, the likes of which didn't come by chance.

Christians don't need to go into nitty gritty details about evidence, for we don't need to since we have a personal relationship with the Creator Himself who has revealed Himself to us in nature and Divine Revelation. In time you will come to know Him, or know about Him.

He has given you the free will to choose the ToE even above Him, but in time you'll come to see that that choice would have been the wrong one.

I am going to leave a text with you:

Revelation 21:6-8
6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Repent while you have time. Now is the hour to reject all man-made doctrines that have their source in Satan, and listen to God's calling. What if at the end of this road you discover that what you learned to accept as truth is all a lie? What then?

Peace!

all monkeys run!

de predator is here!

wrawr!!!!!

@bobbyjaf- you smokin too much ganja mon?! only way you can assume the chaotic mass of craziness kown as reality to be 'ordered' and 'designed'.

Bobbyaf:

But you're on the road and you don't even know it. Soon you'll see the end of the road, and that it is a dead end. By thenHi how goes?
it might/will be too late. Wake up its broad day light. Now is not the time to sleep.

That's wonderful, wake me up when you have anything of substance to say.

Bobbyaf:

You desire me to bring evidence in favour of creation, huh?

You already have the evidence. Just take a hard look around you and see the macro evidence. If you desire micro evidence look through an electron microscope.

Haven't played this game before? It was a lame game then and it's a lame game now. Looking at the evidence has shown evolution, evolution with common descent.

What do these sources have in common? Order and design, the likes of which didn't come by chance.

What order and design? The order that enables a large meteorite to wipe out a large number of organisms, or the order that renders our Universe as a more hospitable place for rocks than life, some order. And speaking of design, are we speaking of the either drunk or simply incompetent designer that decided on the grossly incompetent design of the laryngeal nerve? Please!

Christians don't need to go into nitty gritty details about evidence, for we don't need to since we have a personal relationship with the Creator Himself who has revealed Himself to us in nature and Divine Revelation. In time you will come to know Him, or know about Him.

Anti-intellectualism at its most potent and worst. If you are anything to go by, then fundies do trully hate science, and that in itself is overwhelmingly sad.

He has given you the free will to choose the ToE even above Him, but in time you'll come to see that that choice would have been the wrong one.

Evolution =/= atheism.

I am going to leave a text with you:

Revelation 21:6-8
6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Repent while you have time. Now is the hour to reject all man-made doctrines that have their source in Satan, and listen to God's calling. What if at the end of this road you discover that what you learned to accept as truth is all a lie? What then?

Peace!

What's a good over zealot fundy Creationist rhetoric without some ambiguous scripture, that should somehow convince the reader to overlook the falsehoods that the Creationist had previously spouted. If you are the typical Christian, Creationist, then I'm glad to remain apart from your ideologies.

Wish you all the best in life. Bye!

Bobbyaf:

Wish you all the best in life. Bye!

Thank you; I wish all the best too.

To all the evolution proponents, please tell me where iron ore comes from. please do not talk about it unless you know the subject very well. Please give the amount of energy that is in the molecular volume/structre of it. Now tell me if you know what occurred first and how is metal (iron) is transformed to say, Fish. When you can find clear and direct relationships, then you will know that God creats all things. The DNA of Potato is even close to mans than the DNA of Apes to Mans. The Biologist and Chemist amount you should respond, along with the Medical Doctors and any relevant scientific descipline. The Big Bang is a sound. We all agree that Moses (AS) heard the voice of his Lord. This is sound too. The commandment for creation is also sound 'BE".

Please if you do not know anything about this so not give me anty opinion. Further, to butress my statement about Creationizm, read the Qur'an. In it you will find scientific knowledge of gigantic proportions. You will find also the exact amount of the number of bones in the body of man in the hadith of Muhammad (AS). Yes I am a Muslim. Yes I am grateful to God who has made me a muslim. I am a Yoruba and yes the peoiple who have been making fun of the Northerners should be ashamed of themselves. I wonder how you feel when the Whites in the so called new worlds make fun of your Africanness. Of course, they will be wrong and here you are wrong as well.

God crteated all things and if you believe that things evolved please proof it and you will never be able regardless all your conjecture. God is real and He will be the One who will judge all when we are all recreated, an easier task.

Yup

you right nigga. we's all animated iron eja-dadi mackierel.

*takes another puff of deh hookah*

peeeeeace and leuuuuuurve in teh yuuuniverse. Jah for ever, mon! jah make deh ganja, jah make deh hevin, is no long fo babylon, ma bruddas, jeeeesas is deh waaaayyyyyyyyyyyy *puff*

olabowale:

To all the evolution proponents, please tell me where iron ore comes from. please do not talk about it unless you know the subject very well. Please give the amount of energy that is in the molecular volume/structre of it. Now tell me if you know what occurred first and how is metal (iron) is transformed to say, Fish. When you can find clear and direct relationships, then you will know that God creats all things. The DNA of Potato is even close to mans than the DNA of Apes to Mans. The Biologist and Chemist amount you should respond, along with the Medical Doctors and any relevant scientific descipline. The Big Bang is a sound. We all agree that Moses (AS) heard the voice of his Lord. This is sound too. The commandment for creation is also sound 'BE".

Oh, for f@&k's sake! I didn't think it could get any worse, but I guess I was terrible wrong. Read through the bleeding thread, and try at least understand what the theory of evolution is about. For flips sake! And why don't you provide some scientific evidence for the potato's DNA being closer to Man, than other apes. It also appears your knowledge on the Big Bang and sound in space is as severely lacking as your knowledge on the other sciences. Not much of surprise there I suppose.

Please if you do not know anything about this so not give me anty opinion.

Ha ha ha, no wait, buhahhahhahaha. It doesn't get any more ironic.

Further, to butress my statement about Creationizm, read the Qur'an. In it you will find scientific knowledge of gigantic proportions. You will find also the exact amount of the number of bones in the body of man in the hadith of Muhammad (AS). Yes I am a Muslim. Yes I am grateful to God who has made me a muslim. I am a Yoruba and yes the peoiple who have been making fun of the Northerners should be ashamed of themselves. I wonder how you feel when the Whites in the so called new worlds make fun of your Africanness. Of course, they will be wrong and here you are wrong as well.

God crteated all things and if you believe that things evolved please proof it and you will never be able regardless all your conjecture. God is real and He will be the One who will judge all when we are all recreated, an easier task.

That's wonderful, by the way, evolution =/= atheism.

dakmanzero:

Yup

you right nigga. we's all animated iron eja-dadi mackierel.

*takes another puff of deh hookah*

peeeeeace and leuuuuuurve in the yuuuniverse. Jah for ever, mon! jah make deh ganja, jah make deh hevin, is no long fo babylon, ma bruddas, jeeeesas is deh waaaayyyyyyyyyyyy *puff*

True talk.

Atheists are deemed hopeless. Simply because they accept the hard truth. We are not special. There's nothing special about human beings. When you die you rot. Evolutionists believe that the "spirit" is nothing but a term for an evolved consciousness.

Christianity gives hope.
When a strong man is rendered handicap by a fatal accident, his most likely plague is depression. Shove him religion and he's fine, despite his pain.

@topic.

Creationism seeks to prove how man is specially created. Though there is absolutely no proof for this theory, it sure is a pacifier. You are made in God's image and despite your suffering he (KAG says She) knows about ya. That piece of statement means the world to an average Nigerian, with no hope for the future.

On the other hand, evolution is a conclusion from different observations collected over time, by totally unrelated philosophers "jobless people". Evolution explains life and how life became, better than the creation theory could even try.

Different minds need different truths. The contradictions of the bible are maddening; I still go to church though, it's all I know.
If God exists he'll have to forgive me, but he SUCKS in answering the simple question: "Who the are you?"; When his best answer is: "I AM WHO YOU THINK I AM".

@macalurs

He is the invisible man that live is the sky!

Fluffy, there is the theory of evolution as well as evolution. Evolution in the true sense of the word takes place around us everyday. However the "theory" is false in that it is built up on false premises or assumptions.

As much as scientists so-called would like for us to believe that they have produced facts to support such theories, they are themselves decieved. The TOE is just that, a theory. It takes a lot of faith, and as a matter of fact more faith than is required to believe the bible, to believe that life moved from a state of atoms to humans, however how long it took for that to happen.

Life can only beget life. The laws of bilology still hold. Cells make cells. There has to be an intact cell having all its properties to make cells of its kind. What applies to the cells then apply to them now.

God our Creator in His divine wisdom knew what He was doing when He created life as the bible records it. He started out life with adult life forms that were given the ability to pro-create. Both plants and animals were already created with the DNA blue print in their cells.

Life is way too complex and orderly to have come about by chance. The TOE is all about chance. It lacks structure and a plan. Besides, it demoralises mankind. It shows man's roots as a mere bunch of molecules, aimlessly coming together to eventually form life. The Bible on the other hand shows man's root lying in His Creator. That is why man has the ability to create things, because the bible alludes to that. We were made in God's image. He placed man over the animals. That is why we can reason and they can't.

If you ask any of the advocates of the TOE to show evidence they will point you to some website with concocted evidence. What they do is to overwhelm persons with scientific jargon, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what is going on. Don't let them confuse you with their choiced expressions. They are good at that.

Bless.

Bobbyaf,

You have now officially been promoted to fountainhead of the "Lying for Jesus" society. Congratulations and a happy lying new year to you.

nferyn,

How do you mean 'Lying for Jesus' and 'a happy lying new year'?

shahan:

nferyn,

How do you mean 'Lying for Jesus' and 'a happy lying new year'?

Sorry that I wanted to insert a personal message to Bobbyaf here. If you read the whole thread, you will understand that Bobbyaf is continuously using less than honest tactics to get his message accross. He puts up strawmen, ignores other people's arguments, misrepresents arguments and when corrected continues to use that refuted argument, etc.
He wants to get his message accross by any means necessary, even if that includes dishonesty. After all, he's doing it for a good cause (or so he thinks)

Okay, I get you. I've learnt not to assume positions without first asking why people say what they do - that's why I asked. However, your personal message was for Bobbyaf. Cheers.

shahan:

Okay, I get you. I've learnt not to assume positions without first asking why people say what they do - that's why I asked. However, your personal message was for Bobbyaf. Cheers.

If PM was still active, I wouldn't have bothered the board with that message. Anyway, enjoy the thread

Another Christian failing the honesty test. Big surprise.

Bobbyaf:

Fluffy, there is the theory of evolution as well as evolution. Evolution in the true sense of the word takes place around us everyday. However the "theory" is false in that it is built up on false premises or assumptions.

No, itisn't.

As much as scientists so-called would like for us to believe that they have produced facts to support such theories, they are themselves decieved. The TOE is just that, a theory. It takes a lot of faith, and as a matter of fact more faith than is required to believe the bible, to believe that life moved from a state of atoms to humans, however how long it took for that to happen.

Wait, it takes more faith to believe observed and well tested science, than it takes to believe talking snakes, the "sun standing still so Josh could finish slaughtering", a whale swallowing a man, and all the many myths in the Bible? Makes sense.

By the way, you have your theory of evolution wrong again. The ToE only deals with the diversity of life.

Life can only beget life.The laws of bilology still hold. Cells make cells. There has to be an intact cell having all its properties to make cells of its kind. What applies to the cells then apply to them now.

Except when it doesn't: http://www.theharbinger.org/articles/rel_sci/fox.html

God our Creator in His divine wisdom knew what He was doing when He created life as the bible records it. He started out life with adult life forms that were given the ability to pro-create. Both plants and animals were already created with the DNA blue print in their cells.

Do you also believe the Earth and the Universe are about 6,000 - 10,000 years old?

Life is way too complex and orderly to have come about by chance. The TOE is all about chance. It lacks structure and a plan.

Nope, the ToE isn't about chance, but you already knew that, didn't you.

Besides, it demoralises mankind. It shows man's roots as a mere bunch of molecules, aimlessly coming together to eventually form life. The Bible on the other hand shows man's root lying in His Creator. That is why man has the ability to create things, because the bible alludes to that. We were made in God's image. He placed man over the animals. That is why we can reason and they can't.

Chimps making and using tools, Elephants with attitudes, [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,989714,00.html]dolphins that plan[/url]; maybe, just maybe that's the reason we can reason and they can't.

If you ask any of the advocates of the TOE to show evidence they will point you to some website with concocted evidence. What they do is to overwhelm persons with scientific jargon, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what is going on. Don't let them confuse you with their choiced expressions. They are good at that.

Oh no, I can't believe you're on to us. I thought we covered our tracks well, but you and your pesky investigating *shakes fists*. Yes, it's true, it's a world wide conspiracy, all the scientists are in on it, and we meet on Fridays to concoct evidence to fool the masses. Better watch your back Bobby, the EAC don't take kindly to people revealing our conspiracies.

Bless.

I need a shower now.

Sorry I will not be decieved by your frivolous theories, and their apparantly logical explanations. I have moved beyond the 3rd grade years ago.

Bobbyaf:

Sorry I will not be decieved by your frivolous theories, and their apparantly logical explanations. I have moved beyond the 3rd grade years ago.

If that's really how you perceive things, I just feel so sorry for all these poor children that have to pass through the sorry excuse for an educational system you were exposed to