₦airaland Forum

xkape:
the irony of life is, atheist claim people who believe in God are illogical, confused and unscientific. yet they make it a point of duty to hold on to an idea, that was founded by a VICTORIAN scientist. whose only tool was his eyes and a notebook. whose whole submission were based on a limited geographical area. this was at a time when they hadnt even invented penicilin.

Firstly, what does atheism have to do with evolution? Secondly, You do know people like Galileo and Newton were before Darwin, yes? I guess we should all revert to the geocentric model, and disregard everything Newton came up with. Finally, the theory has come a long way is Darwin.

please what was darwins pedigree that gave him the right to exp[lain the origin of life ?.

He didn't explain the origin of life, but he did at one point offer up a suggestion that it was started by YHVH.

he prob knew less about biology than an A level student of today. in the sciebntific method the jump from observation is hypothesis,then experimentation, before theory can be made. darwin jumped from observatin to theory in a millisecond, and all of scientific evolution has been built on that foundation, always warping observation and experimental results to fit the mould

In all honesty, I have no doubt that Darwin knew more biology than you.

why? because accepting that there is a god would make us accountable for our actions to someone else (god forbid that we be accountable for what we do)

Okay? If that's what you think evolution is about, it's not surprising that you oppose it.

the theory of relativity has been demonstrated empirically to some degree so has newtonian physics, thermodynamics, and others. has any part of the chain of evolution been demonstrated conclusively empirically?. Even the original synthesis of the 20 laevo-amino acids could not be duplicated in a lab under the most contrived of conditions

Yes.

the usual cop-out is that it took billions of years, but even strains of viruses that mutate so many times in few years that it would be equivalent to a worm turning into a whale have not been shown to mutate into anythin more complex than they originally were. different, more adaptable but not more complex

there are so many hole in this so-called theory that only a fool would believe it. it is more plausible that life from outer space came to earth in a spaceship than organic material in the sea fused into a bacterium.

and any one out there who wants to argue on scientific facts and not mass-hypnosis can bring it on

I suspect you know next to nothing about evolution and it's theory. How about you point out the many holes in the theory of evolution.[quote][/quote]

nferyn:
[i]Simmy [/i]isn't a pseudonym for Michael Behe, is it?

That would be funny, but unfortunately (or fortunately) Behe, unlike Simmy, actually accepts evolution concepts like common descent.

simmy:
Evolution only explains a plausible way in which the fittest came to be fit< it doesnt explain how they got there in the first place.

If I understand what you wrote correctly, I agree evolution does not explain the origins of life, nor does it attempt explaining it. That's left to the chemists and biochemists .

When darwin wrote the origin of species very little of the complexities of lifewas known and so , so much was taken for granted.

But the theory has come a long way since then, and it still remains unfalsified.

I still maintain that the theory of evolution is elaborate nonsense. Simply stating that simple organisms evolved into complex multicellular organisms like humans stretches the limits of imagination. Saying that this a case of extreme oversimplificationis an understatement.

Many things stretch the limit of imagination, but that doesn't make them wrong.

Evolutionists tend to cover up their inplausible arguments with time. Millions and millions of years give organisms enough time to evolve into whatever they want they say!!!!Thats pure balderdash!

No it isn't.

Anyone who understands even remotely how complex the dna sequence of a gorilla is will realize how close to impossible evolution is. Its like asking a gorilla to randomly punch away at a keybooard and getting him to type out the complete works of william shakespaeare at his first or second or even third attemot. think, even if he has a million or billion years to work , how possible is such a feat?

Except evolution isn't random, and there's nothing to suggest a gorilla's dna didn't arise without evolution.

Please don't lets get carried away by the proponents of evolution jsut because it's the theory in vogue right now and because being anti-religious is considered intellectual. Evolution is crap!!Note that I am not arguing in favour of any religious sect.

Why bring religion into the fray? You do evolution =\= atheism, and many (most?) christians accept evolution?

@darkmanzero
Scientists like me decided to grace evolution with the term theory, please don't lets get carried away by semantics, the same scientists graced intelligent design with the same term.some scientists believe in evolution and consider i.d as crap while others like me think i.d is tha bomb and consider evolution as crap
catch ny drift?

Scientists like you don't know what a scientific theory is, others that do, graced evolution with the term theory. They also know that ID is not a scientific theory for reason which include, it doesn't have any empirical evidences, makes no predictions, and more importantly can't be falsified.

Its also obvious u have ABSOLUTELY NO idea what I.d is about if u consider it as an attempt to mix science with metaphysics or spiritual stuff.
I'll surf the web and get u the link which explains the concpt of intelligent design in the simplest and most concise way
NOTICE that I am not arguing in favour of ANY religious sect even though I happen to believe in the xtian God. This arguement has little to do with religion

Darkman is right though, just ask the poster boy of ID, Michael "astrology is science" Behe. If you still aren't convinced, look up the Dover board, the authors of the Panda's thumb, and even Pat Robertson's statement after ID was stopped from being taught.

simmy:
@nferyn and others like him
@ anyone who thinks the theory of evolution is anything but a stupid theory
ARRRRRRRGHHHHHH!!!

Maybe you can tell us why it's a stupid theory.

HERE comes these pseudo-intellectuals who know nothing about nothing totting their false knowledge about. I happen to be a biochemist and I know that the theory of evolution is exactly that, A THEORY!!!

Oh boy, not another scientist with no idea of what a scientific theory means "In scientific usage, a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it often does in other contexts. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena, which originates from and/or is supported by experimental evidence (see scientific method). In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations made that is predictive, logical and testable" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory).

there's absolutely NO evidence to support evolution.

Really? That would be news to the approximately 99% of biologists who accept evolution, it would also startle all the major universities, hospitals, etc that teach, and/or study evolution.

It's just a load of elaborate crap. THE WHOLE UNIVERSE STINKS of creation.

No it doesn't, but that's just my opinion, however, many christians believe God used evolution to create.

Intelligence!!, intelligence suggets a personality, which indirectly leads a reasoning person to conclude that a god of some sorts exists somewhere. Ever heard of the theory of Intelligent design?

Yes, and I wouldn't call it a theory, I wouldn't even call it an hypothesis. By the way, did you catch the Dover trial in America?

Fluffy:
@KAG

God wil not speak to you just to convince you that He exists. He is too wise for that, next thing you will ask Him to change stones into bread when you are hungry and it does not work that way.

I wouldn't ask for stone to be turned into bread when I'm hungry, I would ask that stone be turned into bread for the millions of children that are starving to death as we speak, if God did, that I, and many other non-believers, would be her number one fans. So why doesn't God work that way anymore?

However He personally speaks to those who love adore and worship Him, but it does not mean you are not important to Him. there will come a time in your life when you will have a personal encounter with Him or when His Holy spirit will touch you.

Because regardless of who you are or wether you believe in Him, God wants you to have fellowship with Him.

Well until the day God reveals herself, I remain a friendly atheist *waves* (Yes, I finally decided on atheist on it's own)

kimba:
@KAGThanks for your dictionary definitions, but note, its only dictionary definitions. God did not intend that man take "religion" as the end of the road, God did not intend that it be relegated to a piece-of-paper affair ". He intends that man have a meaningful relationship with Him. See the kind of relationship God intended to have with Man right there at Eden, when God comes down in the cool of the day to talk, and have fellowship with man. After man sinned, he had to make sacrifices to appease God. Christ came as the ultimate sacrifice, but still man wont believe in Him.

Well, there's at best minmal evidence of Jesus dying for anyone's "sins", so you'll excuse me if i don't believe in your God needing to sacrifice himself to save just one section of his creation, from himself. I feel we've strayed from the OP.

Isnt it sad that God has been doing everything to reach out to man, since Eden, yet man would rejects. Anyway, theres still time to believe. Make hay while the sun shines.

No he hasn't, really, really, he hasn't.

I just quoted those references, Psalms, Isaiah and Paul from my head, if you want me to do a Genesis to Revelation detail, just pick your Bible and read.
If God would give you a personal call, you'll be preaching Jesus on Nairaland tomorrow morning.

I've read, the Bible, read most of it several times, still think Pratchett is a better writer than all the authors in the contained in the Biblical cannon, and believe R. R. Martin pwns the Nicene council in the editing department. .

Wow

kimba:
by the time we start defending those who say God made a mistake and they came out gay, then we begin to defend those that say they were supposed to be male but are females.

Maybe God didn't make a mistake, maybe she has a divine plan you don't understand *shrugs*

Did these kind of sick and sadistic I-think-I-am-gay thoughts cross the mind of our grandparents (mothers and fathers)?

Sick and sadistic? Pray tell, who is getting hurt/ maimed in a (loving) relationship between two consenting adults?

When they were farming all day,
tilling the ground, hunting and getting themselves busy?
How could they be gay, when the only Bible they read was in Church,
when they believed in God and he possessed their beings?
when the level of their faiths rose to the point God had to reveal himself personally,

Yes, we all know there were no gay people during the agricultural era, of course *rolls eyes*. this just in, farming prevents homosexuality.

snipped for brevity

Don't you get tired of polemic? By the way, porn, tv, and all the other things you mentioned do not cause homosexuality, this is even more clear when homosexuality in other animals is taken into consideration.
[quote][/quote]

kimba:
@KAG
rather than replying my posts with one-liners, you could just put everything together in a good paragraph,

I find it easier to respond and stress a point, when I separate longish posts.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-10782.0.html
As I said, you don't understand.

I do understand, but like the definition of ape, it seems you unsurprisingly do not understand the definition of religion:

"religion noun 1 a belief in, or the worship of, a god or gods. 2 a particular system of belief or worship, such as Christianity or Judaism." It even falls uder the the colloquial usage of religion: 23 colloq anything to which one is totally devoted and which rules one's life" (http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/chref/chref.py/main?query=religion&title=21st&sourceid=Mozilla-search). So once again, christianity is a religion.

Someone who didnt understand 2+2 in grade 1 shouldnt expect to understand Advanced Mathematics.
But let God speak for Himself:

Indeed, that's probably why explaining scientific theories to you, might be an exercise in futility . But yes, let God speak for herself.

Ps 10:4 - The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
Ps 14:1 - The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Both from the pslamist.

Isa 40:28 - Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
Isa 44:8 - Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isa 45:5 - I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

All credited to Isaiah.

Ro 13:1 -Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

And finally, Paul. When God's ready to speak for herself, I'm sure she can give me a call, she knows where I live (being Omniscient and all that.)

The Tetragrammaton

kimba:
@KAG
Yes, I have read them, but I don't need them.

With all due respect, I believe you are lying.

They aint got no inspiration, no basis, no evidence, no truth.
My Bible is good enough, it was written through the inspiration of God.
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free, from the evolution theory,

You didn't read my post:
If you don't make it to Heaven, you wont hear the details of our discussion forum with Adam.
There'll be too many things to talk about up-there.

So, on the one hand, we have a scientific theory based on facts, evidence and reasoning, and on the other we have the opposition who have claimed they have a (scientific?) theory, but the evidence can only be gotten in the afterlife. I do believe some wise words from St. Augustine (A.D. 354-430) are applicable here:

Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances,, and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, lest the unbeliever see only ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn.

- St. Augustine, "De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim" (The Literal Meaning of Genesis).

Fluffy:
Okay whateva, but I'm sorry I realy did not mean to patronise you

No problem, water under the bridge, and all that.

Fluffy:
@KAG

I would rather believe in the holy bible rather than a science book for the simple fact that the bible makes more sense.

Okay, but so you know, christainity and science are not mutually exclusive. More christains accept evolution than atheists.

Try reading it from Genesis and you might actually notice that it's inspired by the Holy spirit, Oh I'm sorry do you know what that is?

The reason you haven't seen any people being formed from dust is because after Adam, Eve was created from Adam's rib and those two started having kids as it still continues to happen today. Oh buy the way that is also written in the book of Genesis the kids were named Kain and Abel

Please don't patronise me. I've read Genesis, and I doubt it was inspired by a celestial being. Just to be sure, there's no evidence man was created from dust, and Eve fro his rib, except from what's written in an ancient book?

kimba:
@KAGSorry sir, religion is in the dictonary, living a life with God as the partner in the relationship is what im talking about.

It's still a religion.

God is the source of all knowledge. If you don't believe in God, you can't understand simple things, plain and simple.

Well, if you are evidence of the "knowledge from God", then I'm glad I escaped with a working brain.

Dont bother explaining, I perfectly understand whatever concept you might want to throw around,

You didn't seem to.

and I know where you are coming from and exactly where you are going.

No you don't

Ive been there, its a deep tunnel without an end, not even if you continue falling for 365days a year. God reached out to me, and led me back to the surface. Now, I know I was created. Its a whole new world.

I'm happy for you

God created the animals, male and female created He them.
God created Man in His Own Image.
(don't you get the difference).

I guess I should ask the still unanswered question, You are a mammal, does that mean you worship a God that's a mammal?

kimba:
@Fluffy
Preach it on sister,

Indeed.

Reason:

Where is the live, concrete, human evidence of the evolution theory? - it hasnt been found.
Where is the live, concrete, human evidence of God's creation theory? Adam, get to Heaven and ask him.

Look up endogeneous retroviral insertions, transitinal species like homo erectus, "Lucy", genetic similarities, etc. By the way, I'm glad you realise there's no evidence for the creation "theory".

Fluffy:
If people that claim to be christians still believe in evolution I must say they are lost!

Good to know, I'm sure geocentrist feel the same about you (I'm of course assuming you hold to a heliocentric planetatry system), and i suspect the flat earthists know you are lost too.

The bible clearly states that Adam and Eve were created from the dust of the earth and that is how life began.

Except the bible is not a science textbook.

Evolutionist claim God first created apes or apes appeared on earth and started changing into humans and everything just popped up from nowhere.

Really? Which evolutionists?

BY THE WAY HAVE YOU PEOPLE NOTICED HOW EVOLUTION STOPPED TAKING PLACE, WHILE CREATION CONTINUES IN OUR DAILY LIVES

No I haven't noticed evolution stopping. But on creation continuing, I haven't seen anybody get formed from dust lately, nor have I seen birds appear ex nihilo, have you?

kimba:
@KAGIf only you knew how to read very well, you would have noted i used "god" instead of "God".

Oh, I'm pretty sure I know how to read, and I noticed your little "g", but unlike you, I use a big "G" when discussing any God(s), peculiar habit, don't ask.

FYI:
I worship a Living God. He sent us His only Son, Jesus.

I'm sure you believe that

1) Since you are not a Christian, you wont understand. sorry,

Amazing, i still get somewhat amused when I run across christians who still believe that unbelief in their religion, automatically implies some kind of idiocy.

2) It becomes worse, that since you say you evolved from Apes, i mean you still can't understand. im really sorry.

Mock sympathy, how trite. By the way, you didn't answer my question. You are a mammal, does that mean you worship a mammal god?

on a more serious note: methinks, it should be the Apes that should be craving to be Humans, and not viceversa. Do you thinks Apes and their likes gather together in their forests, discussing a topic like this, don't you think they should be getting angry that they did not evolve completely(if to be a man is the definition of completeness).

Its sometimes funny how people will just want to drag themselves on the floor.

it's sometimes funny how some people can't understand simple concepts like, the simple classification of animals, which incidentally includes humans.

Lets see if I can explain. Humans are animals, that doesn't mean we aren't what we are, humans are mammals, that doesn't exclude the handiwork of a God. Humans are apes, that doesn't mean humans are chimps, nor does it mean gorillas are humans.[quote][/quote]

God doesn't exist, but if she did I doubt she would be a physical being.

TV01:
Hi KAG,

I take it from your posts that you are not a Christian. However, I must say you need the patience of a saint to engage Bro' Kimba .

No, I'm not a christian, thanks for the heads up though.

I can't speak for all "theists", but a Christian who believes that God created man

(1) in His image
(2) from the dust of the ground
(3) and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils &
(4) on a different day to other creatures,

cannot believe in evolution, or that their God "used evolution to create them". That would entail disregarding the Bible from it's opening pages. Suffice to say, the only word I can think of, off the top of my head to qualify "Christianity" is "Biblical". The "Christian God" is the God of the Bible.

God bless.

I doubt that. Some of the christians who accept evolution believe that their interpretaion of the Genesis account actually shows that YHVH used evolution, the big bang, etc to create everything, some believe that the Genesis account is allegorical/mythical, some believe it was wrongly translated, and I'm sure there are many other christian evolutionists school of thought. However, what is clear is that the vast majority of christians accept the occurence of evolution, and probably most christians believe that although God used evolution to create humans it doesn't contradict their understag of Genesis.

clemsonfan:
I Believe in creation, not just BECAUSE I am a christian, but through the many facts that contradict the "Evolution Theory", For example: In the evolution theory it states that once the "BIG BANG" occurred, all of the dust particles and fragments started a circular spin to the right, well then Saturn has 7 rings that orbit around it, Right? Well then all but 1 of those rings orbit in the same direction which is to the right, then why does the other ring orbit to the LEFT?!

No. First, the theory of evolution has nothing to do with the either the Big bang, or the orbit of moons and planets. Secondly, I suspect you believe creation(ism) because you are a christian; and finally, to answer your question, ever heard of what happens when two bodies collide?

whats more the evolution theory states that we came from MONKEYS!!! I DID NOT EVOLVE FROM A MONKEY!!

We share a common ancestor with mokeys

If we REALLY DID evolve from apes, tell me then HOW did our anatomy change in such a dramatic fashion, their are extremely large Generation gaps in that time period between evolving from monkey to human.

Monkeys (as in modern monkeys) are as evolved as humans by the way, but to answer your question, mutations and natural selection.

The whole Idea of "THE BIG BANG THEORY" or Evolution theory is just rediculous.

No they aren't.

I mean come on, their are no SUBSTANTIAL Evidence to prove the EVOLUTION theory,

Proof is for math and alcohol, but there are many evidences for the ToE.

but their are also no Substaintial evidence of the Creation theory. But, as a christian if you read the Christian Bible, it will tell you how GOD created the earth, the universe and everything else.

[b]THE BIBLE IS NOT A SCIENCE BOOK[/B]

Here's what i think about the CREATION THEORY:

-It states in the bible that GOD created the earth in 6 days, How are we to know the length of time in ONE of GOD'S days. Because I am sure it is not 24 HRS, it Could be MILLIONS of years.
-It Also states in the Bible that GOD Rested on the 7^th day, Maybe, just maybe, God created the universe and let it evolve for the MILLIONS OF YEARS in the length of his DAY. Then he created light, which is the SUN i'm guessing, and let IT evolve for the same number of years in the length of his DAY.

So in conclusion, I say that maybe the "EVOLUTION THEORY", in some small way, and the"CREATION THEORY" link to gether.

What's the creation theory again?

[quote=kimba]@ those of you who believe you are Apes, I'm really happy for your admissions, let your Ape god[/quote]Ape God? You are also a mammal (one can only hope), does that mean you worship a mammal God?

grant you all blessings you desire. I wasnt expecting any response better from you guys than your re-affirmations that you are indeed Apes. It now makes things clearer on this forum, because you know, by the time we see replies flying in from right and left, we'll begin to view and analyze your responses from the fact that maybe its a human being talking or an Ape talking. Grin Grin Grin Grin

Human beings are apes.

Since some Apes have admitted to their status on this forum, we can segregate the human beings to a more intelligent area, and have human discussions.

Once again, humans are apes.

Please, i would really like everyone to reply to this thread, did you evolutionize from an Ape, or were you created by God. Where do you stand?

There are many theists, many of whom are christians, who believe that (their) God used evolution to "create" them.

I can put 2 and 2 together.

Can you? Really?

Yes, all of us were created by God, God created Animals, God created Man in His Image. Now, we have a lot of Animals mixed with Humans, all of them on Nairaland.

Oh boy! Humans are animals too.

Hope its only Apes, and maybe a lot of Chimps in here, no dogs, no cats, i mean, is there any Baboon in the House Grin Grin, You better own up real quick before you are discovered. It doesnt matter, you might be an African, European, American or Asian, but a Baboon is always a Baboon. An Ape is always an Ape.
Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

And there it is. It seems many are so blinkered by what has seemingly become the colloquial use of the word "ape", that they don't realise that the definition, especially in science, includes humans.

Fluffy:
Yes I am still talking about evolution because according to evolution everything just evolved including sun,moon or earth itself!

Good grief, no! According to evolution, the theory of evolution to be exact, life evolved. According to astronomy/cosmology/physics/whatever, the Sun, moon, and Earth formed like other body in space, differnt occurences long after the big bang.

Why did the apes stop changing into humans as evolution would have us believe?

Did you read anything nferyn and I posted? Because it is clear you know next to nothing of what evolution would have us believe. Apes, as in modern apes examples of which include chimps, gorillas, etc, did not evolve into humans. We share a common ancestor with them

I'm sorry, but I was formed by God in my mamma's belly and believe me there where no apes involved

Good to know.

On another tangent, here's a question for you. If Americans originally came form England, why are there still Englishmen?

Fluffy:
Isn't the bible proof enough of creation?

No. Is the Avesta proof enough for creation?

Or don't you believe in the holy bible?
I would rather believe in the bible book called Genesis rather than believe that
we just came from nowhere.

There are many christians who accept evolution, evolution and religious beliefs are not mutually exclusive.

Correction monkeys,apes, the sun moon and
stars just popped up from nowhere and then the apes started changing into humans

Are you still talking about evolution?

Why did they stop changing and why would you believe such nonsense people?

Why did who stop changing? By the way, human beings are apes, we share a common ancestor with other apes.

TV01:
Hi,

Hello,

I believe the team are referred to as "Gunners", the supporters are popularly called "Gooners"

I ordinarily wouldn't say no to the chance of a game with Arsenal, but since I subscribe to the fact of an "Afterlife", I'll be signed up to better things.

Ah, thanks for the correction.

kimba:
If there is no afterlife, then we are all gunners,

Arsenal supporters?

Evolution.

Fluffy:
The[b] overwhelming evidence [/b] in favor of the theory of evolution does not neccessarily mean it is real.

Well, in that case, the overwhelming evidence for the theory of gravity does not necessarily mean it is real, excuse me while I fly out the window.

Evidence can be made! For example I can add a gun with someone's fingerprints on it to a crime scene and claim the person to which the fingerprints belong committed the crime, plain and simple and does that make it true?

I don't think so!

So there's a worldwide conspiracy involving almost all biologists, and the vast majority of scientists, many of whom are christians/muslims/theists?

alheri:
Mr. KAG, sorry to say,you really sound confused. You can't be atheist and christian at the same time. Maybe you need to go back and check the meanings of both words in your dictionary again.

Yes, I'm confused about what nice little descriptor I can use, but believe me I know the meaning of both terms.

demmy:
This is more than an oxymoron. Its conflicting and I don't think you can logically defend such description. If you're a deist, then you cannot be an atheist because atheists don't believe in the existence of any God, Christian or non. Whereas deists do. Also if you are an atheist you can not be a Christian because the latter believe in God. And if you are a deist you cannot be a Christian either because deistic God is not based on religion.

I think you are a deist. simple. You believe in some higher Being but not in the Christian or Muslim way.

Sorry that should have read pantheistic, not deistic. Typo.

To respond to your post, no I don't believe in the existence of an higher being

nferyn:
I truly do not understand your position. Can you explain how you arrive at that label?

It was just something I was mulling over. I acknowledge and know that I'm an atheist, however I do practically everything your average run of the mill christian would do. I go to church, I have a tend to partake in christian apologetics, read the Bible etc. It seems to me the atheist moniker on its own does not aspects of my life. It also seems to some extent, that people who use the atheist label are not supposed to partake in those activities. I don't know if that makes it a clearer.

By the way the label isn't definite yet, I was hoping discussion would either iron out the kinks in the label, or make me drop it altogether.

4get_me:
You gentlemen surprise me on this Forum. A labelling exercise??. . . only an ellaborate intellectual construction? Do you want us to go through the whole gamut of atheism all over again?

Please do

Intellectuals don't talk the way you do.

What's an intellectual anyway.

A while back, I was asked what religion or philosophical position I identified with. Unfortunately, I couldn't for the life of me decide on an appropriate little box witha nice label, to describe my beliefs or non-beliefs. Well, it later occured to me that the perhaps oxymoronic term "atheist christian with pantheistic leanings" would probably make for a nice descriptor. What do you guys thinks, is that a logical and/or plausible descriptor?

to give you a little perspective, apart from the whole not believing in the existence of God, any God, I'm actually no different from the average christian. So, discuss?

edit: It really wasn't a freudian slip, pantheistic not deistic

Here you go: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html, "The Moby Dick codes".

If only someone had thought to warn JFK
https://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3267/kennedy11cb.th.gif ,

what about Rabin?
https://img55.imageshack.us/img55/36/rabin2sy.th.gif

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Softee:
I'm glad you have said this. It just shows how little you know about Christianity. SAY IF the Bible was full of contradictions and its been tampered with and its basically lost its meaning (SAY IF) and according to you the ten commandments is the only thing that has stayed. The ten commandments sums up the WHOLE bible. there is not one rule in the bible that hasn't got a link with the ten commandments. So wether the bible has been polluted or not (which it hasn't) Christianity will always stand up tall and keep its spark (Holy spirit) with whatever you jokers have to say about our FAITH

*underlined bit*Shouldn't that be Judaism?