Image123:


They are not my disciples,don't be devilish. i don't care what you say, nor am i interested in buying your stories. You need to state clearly what you have to offer. You're saying in summary to reject Jesus, which is a most foolish proposition. But I'm being gentlemanly and logical and patient to ask you, FOR WHAT? To whom or what are you taking us after Jesus? Because we've seen Jesus, so handsome than anyone. What do you have, better than Jesus? That's not too hard to answer, is it?

Isaiah 53:2 "He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him."

Glad you agree with me Isaiah 53 can't be talking about your Jesus, because you just told me he fine pass your wife

Darn, and i was going to do a whole thread on it, but it seems we already agree Jesus aint in Isaiah 53 either

Where is He sef?

Image123:


Don't be ridiculous, there is no personal attack. You should not be ashamed of your testimony and its benefits. "i wonder what you have benefitted since "God" opened your eyes. Don't be shy to share.
Do not attempt to detract from the main issue, which is where you are going or taking us. You are trying to tell us that Jesus is unreal or useless, that the New Testament is unnecessary, that we should stick to the Old Testament. Something like that. You'd really have to be crazy to think that i will take that without your telling me its benefits. What are you selling to us? You claim and pray that God should open our eyes, so you tell us what you have enjoyed than us since God supposedly opened your eyes. Tell me, why i should leave Jesus and all that He has done for me, and follow you and your interpretations/conclusions. It is that simple. Don't just come and confuse everybody with english and greek. Tell us where you are taking us to.

Oga I haven't asked you to do anything yet. All I did was to show that Isaiah 7 is not about Jesus. Your disciples have responded by saying God sends His word and it comes to pass, not once, but twice. That is fine, I know many shall read and understand. Further prophecies to follow sir.

gbaskiphylle:

This is one of the reasons I don't like all this theological explanations giving excuses for falsehood...which one is dual prophesy again?...the scripture cited and explained by the op is straightforward...of what benefit was the prophesy of Jesus birth to Ahaz?...When errors are pointed out,we either attack the op or give flimsy explanations instead of looking at the issue objectively...Thanks Op...I totally agree with you!

Thank you.
Of all the objections I have received to date, I must say, dual prophecy is new. But you know, if I am right, and scriptures suggests I am, it means that NT writers purposely lied, which would bring into question the validity of the whole New Testament. Now, of course, I did not expect people to yield immediately. Isaiah 7 is just one, and admittedly, it ought to be sufficient. But I love my brothers and shall be patient. I haven't even touched Isaiah 53 yet

easternguy1:
Isiahs child name was not Immanuel. So what are you saying

Let me shed light:

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

THE LORD shall call him Immanuel... Did He?

Isaiah 8:8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.

He did not say "You shall name him Immanuel".
And even if this did not refer to this particular child, your thoughts should lead you to consider that whoever this child was, he would have to be born in the time of Isaiah, NOT hundreds of years later. The NT writers basically retrofitted prophecies, lol.

Thanks

Image123:

i wonder what you have benefitted since "God" opened your eyes. Don't be shy to share.

When people have no valid argument, they mount a personal attack.
Let's not get sidetracked. Have I shown that Isaiah 7 is not about Jesus Christ? Yes.
If you are satisfied, I will move on to another prophecy. If not, please state your case.

Image123:


You're not the first and the last, Jesus is.

Elaborate. I have read the beginning i.e. Genesis. No mention of that name there.

Image123:
i wonder what you have benefitted since "God" opened your eyes. mtschewwwwwweeeeeeewwwwww.

All religions can inspire change in a person - but they are man made. Only the law and prophets hold true. I am not interested in human perception of what is good etc. I only pursue the truth. Sorry if this throws a spanner at your works.

The plot thickens

https://www.nairaland.com/2612272/thought-isaiah-7-prophesied-coming

Most of us raised in church have very good knowledge (not understanding) of the NT, but very poor understanding of the old. I am sure a new christian will be better able to grasp this thread than one who has been lied to for years.
Let get straight to the false doctrine:

Matthew 1:18-23
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Verse 23 is where the writers screwed up. In church, we are directed to Isaiah 7:14 which says "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel"


This immediately sounds like this is talking about what Matthew 1:22-23 says Right? Well back up to Isaiah 7:1 so we can get the passage in its true context!!!

Isaiah 7:1-17
1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.
This very first verse sets up the time frame and gives you the gist of the story.

2 And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with the wind.

3 Then said the Lord unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field;

4 And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah.

5 Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying,

6 Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal:

7 Thus saith the Lord God, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass.

8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

9 And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established.

10 Moreover the Lord spake again unto Ahaz, saying,

11 Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
(God told King Ahaz to ask of Him a Sign)

12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the Lord.
(King Ahaz tells God that he won't Ask or Tempt Him )

13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?

14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you [KING AHAZ] a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

In other words God himself will give King Ahaz a sign, since King Ahaz refused to ask for one.
The sign Is that the virgin will conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
This is where the CONFUSION BEGINS. This is where the New Testament writers falsely claims that this is a future prophecy of Jesus.
As we have just read from Verse 1 of this Chapter we now know that THIS WAS NOT A FUTURE PROPHECY OF JESUS. NOR DID THE SIGN HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH A FUTURE PROPHECY OF JESUS. IT WAS A SIGN FOR KING AHAZ.

Now verses 15 and 16 goes into further details of the sign for King Ahaz.

15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

^^^ THAT IS THE SIGN!!! Before the Child can tell good from evil, God will destroy the two Kings, who are enemies of Israel. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH A VIRGIN BIRTH OF JESUS HUNDREDS OF YEARS LATER WHEN AHAZ IS DEAD.

Now WHO IS THE VIRGIN and WHAT DOES VIRGIN MEAN IN Isaiah 7:14?

Hebrew meaning of Virgin in Isaiah 7:14.
h1. H5959
Original: *עלמה*
Transliteration: *‛almâh*
Phonetic: *al-maw'*
*BDB Definition*:
*virgin, YOUNG WOMAN
*of marriageable age
*maid or newly married
Origin: from [[d 5958]]
TWOT entry: 1630b
Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine
*Strong's Definition*: Feminine of [[H5958]]; a _lass_ (as _veiled_ or private): - damsel, maid, virgin.
Virgin only means a YOUNG WOMAN, NOT A WOMAN THAT HAD NEVER HAD SEX.

Isaiah's wife is the virgin whose child will be The Sign For King Ahaz. Not a sexless woman hundreds of years from this prophecy.
Let's Prove this With Scripture In Context.
Isaiah 8:1-4
1 Moreover the Lord said unto me, Take thee a great roll, and write in it with a man's pen concerning Mahershalalhashbaz.

2 And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.

3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the Lord to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz.

(Isaiah is saying he had sex with his Wife, the prophetess and she conceived / had a child). This is what Isaiah 7:14 is talking about.

4 For before the child knows how to say, ‘My father,’ and, ‘My mother,’ the riches of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried away by the king of Assyria.”

This Confirms the Prophecy of Isaiah 7:15-16.
Isaiah 7:15-16
15 He shall eat butter and honey when he knows to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
16 For before the child knows to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land whose two kings you abhor shall be forsaken.

See Isaiah's Son MaherShalalHashBaz that he had by His wife IS THE SIGN that the 2 Kings that went Against King Ahaz will be DESTROYED).
NOT A PROPHECY ABOUT JESUS HUNDREDS OF YEARS LATER.

King Ahaz would have been dead by then so what good would Jesus be as a sign. He would not be alive to witness it.

Another thing. Notice what Isaiah says about His Children:
*Isaiah 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for sign[/b]s and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

As we See God told Ahaz that He will give him a [b]sign and that sign was The Virgin, who is Isaiah's Wife will Conceive a Child and that by time that child is old enough to know right and wrong the 2 Kings that plotted against him will be destroyed. And that was exactly what happened.

Isaiah CONFIRMS That God used his child as a sign for King Ahaz.
So this PROVES IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A WOMAN WHO NEVER HAD SEX HAVING A CHILD HUNDREDS OF YEARS LATER.

As I suspected, and mentioned in my first thread, the scriptures (old testament) are truth, the NT is false...religion of the white man.

May God open our eyes.

God bless

lol just listen to some of these foolish supporters!!!!

starlingslimnet:
When the world was recreated in Gen 1:2-end it didn't continue with the laws of the it's first creation made in Gen 1:1 God made another Law for him. So in the new heaven and earth their will be new Law guiding it's existence. Apparently I don't like going into discussion like this because when I do I say things deep to understand a general summary of things which may get you confused . Now the Bible clearly says in the new heaven and earth there will be 'no day and night' this God said because there will be no moon and sun to mark days and night again.Now if there is no moon and sun how will there be day and night? If there is no day and night how will there be a Sabbath? These are the questions you need to ask your Adventist pastors before coming here to say what they have taught you.

lol I am no adventist.
So because God "recreated" the earth, his Word (torah), which we know to be "from the beginning" also changed? Lol. Tantamount to blasphemy.

The Lord will be an everlasting light, that is true (Isaiah 60:19), and you have taken that to mean Isaiah is lying in verse 66. lol. So what did Isaiah mean. He references the Levitical Feasts my friend. Gerrarahere!

starlingslimnet:
God help you with your ignorance.

Please show me where I have erred in the passages above. You will now tell me Christ did away with those prophecies and gave new ones

EaRtHgUy:
The bible made it clear that we should remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. It also made it clear that the last day of the week (which is Saturday) is the Sabbath day. So pls, can somebody tell me the reason why majority of we Christains go to Church on Sundays. Anybody??

Good question. Do they consider that in the Kingdom, ALL flesh shall observe the sabbath? Furthermore, those that refuse to keep the levitical feasts shall be cut:

ISAIAH 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Zechariah 14:
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

CaptainJune:


You're saying Isaiah 11 does not point to Christ without any valid reason behind your opinion. If it does not point to Christ, then who does it talk about? Do you have any idea?

I don't see why you should doubt the New Testament writings. Remember, Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Law. He did not come to abolish it. He became that sacrifice of sin as required by the Law. He was the only Person who could atone for the sins of the Jews and the world and permanently wipe away our sins with His spotless blood. The Prophets spoke of His coming.

The life and death and of Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophecies of the prophets in the Old Testament concerning Him. You need to study the Bible carefully to see that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of the expected Messiah.

I think I do sir: What did Moses say in Deuteronomy 18?

15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Now, this ties up with Isaiah 11, and Isaiah 11 speaks of the end times. God shall send Israel a PROPHET (not God himself, in form of man, but a prophet) in the same way he gave them Moses. Now did Moses claim to be God? Did the people of Israel pray to Moses same way Christians pray and sing hymns to Jesus?

So you can see from Deuteronomy, that that verse undeniably does not fit the description of Jesus. So I ask you, who is Deuteronomy 18 talking about?

Appleyard:


Oh, brother, much of it has, and is still taking place. You still have not grasp it! Much of what Isaiah and most of the other prophets of old talked about, is the restoration and salvation of Isreal (the gentiles inclusive), which was only made possible by the coming of the Messiah as recorded in the synoptic gospels. Jesus reference to the signs done in answer to John's confusing question, was only a testimony to the fact that the whole of the Chapter 35 was prophecying the ministry of the messiah. The restoration and salvation of Isreal started from the physical ministry of the messiah (Jesus Christ-his birth, ministry, death, burial and resurrection), which ministry has left the physical stage (the first appearance as contained in the Gospels) and has entererd the spiritual stage (the outpouring of the Holy Ghost after his departure) to this day.

Now, did i hear you mention "END TIME" OR "END OF DAYS?"

You must understand that the ministry of the messiah goes way beyond the synoptic gospels, and down to the end of days, and beyond the end of days. A two-fold ministry of salvation and restoration. Of salvation-the Jews first-but who were partially blinded so that the Gentiles can be grafted in through grace and faith in Christ (Romans 11 vs 11, and 25). The First appearing and ministry of the messiah kick started the work of grace and salvation-sealing the elect (mostly Gentiles and including Jews that will believe in Him) through faith in Christ until the day of the "catching away".
The Second appearing shall finish the work of salvation started by the First coming, through the rapturing of the gentile bride and elect in Christ--THIS IS YOUR END OF DAYS!
The final salvation and restoration of Isreal shall come to be only after the Gentile bride goes UP, and then He (Jesus) shall return to the rebuilt Temple as " the Son of David", after showing himself to the traditional Jews as the one God they killed on the Cross (Zachariah 12 vs 10). Or where else did they pierce Jehovah?

So when we talk about The End of Days or End Time, it simply means the Second Coming of Jesus that will rapture those who believe in him, including those that died in truth before now. After that, life goes on. The Anti-Christ is now free to fully operate because, He that has been withholding him (the Holy Spirit-2nd Thess 2 vs 5-10) is now taken away. The tribulation starts, 12,000 each is chosing from each tribe of Isreal, the Lamb make war with the Anti-Christ, its destroyed, the Millineum sets in, etc, etc, etc.

The final end time shall only be when the Devil is cast into the lake of Fire.

Thus, This Whole chapter of Isaiah was more on the reign of Christ--from one stage to the other!

This chapter implies:

Isaiah 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way Not two ways, but one; the way shall be a highway, a way
cast up, raised, and "elevated" ; this is to be understood principally of Christ, the only way of life and salvation; and of the lesser paths of duty and ordinances: and the
meaning is, that in those desert places, where Christ and
his Gospel had not been preached, at least for many ages,
here he should be made known, as the way, the truth, and the life; his Gospel preached, and his ordinances administered; and multitudes, both of Jews and Gentiles,
should be directed and enabled to walk here. Christ is a
highway to both; a way cast up by sovereign grace, which
is raised above the mire and dirt of sin, and carries over it, and from it; a way visible and manifest, clearly pointed to and described in the everlasting Gospel; it is the King's highway, the highway of the King of kings, which he has
ordered and appointed, and is common to all his subjects, high and low, rich and poor, stronger or weaker believers, all may walk in this way; it is an old beaten path, which saints in all ages, from the beginning of the world, have walked in; it is the good old way, the more excellent, the most excellent one; all obstructions and impediments are removed, cast in by sin, Satan, the law, and the world; nor is anyone to be stopped and molested in this way, and all in it shall come safe to their journey's end: and it shall be called The way of holiness; or, "a holy way" ;

Christ is perfectly holy in nature and life, and the holiness of both is imputed to those that are in this way; all in this way are sanctified by the Spirit and grace of God; this way leads to perfect holiness in heaven, and none but holy persons walk here: salvation by Christ no ways discourages the practice of holiness, but is the greatest motive and incentive to it.

Christ leads his people in paths of righteousness; in the paths of truth, of ordinances, and of worship, public and private, all which are holy; and in the path of Gospel conversation and godliness: this way is so holy, that the unclean shall not pass over it; all men are unclean by nature; some are cleansed by the grace of God and blood of Christ; and though, as sanctified, they are not free from sin and the pollution of it, yet, as justified, they are "the undefiled in the way"; and none but such can pass over, or pass through this way to heaven.

Thats all there is to this chapter.

Is Christ God?

yinkeys:
May God Almighty in heaven forgive me if I say anything wrong. To my understanding so far, The Creator is God, for the wages of sin is eternal death he gave his only begotten son to die for our sins. We humans have been born sinners since the time of Adam; even an innocent new born has to be baptized & born again. God from the heavens said "This is my only begotten son with whom I am pleased" The Jews don't believe he ever existed or came to die for ours sins, the Muslims believed he was not God's son but a prophet. But in the Quran he is called in particular the Word of God. Am not trying to compare Moses, Jesus & Muhammed but thoroughly look at the life history of the 3 men & you'll find out that Jesus was, will always be a perfect being. He never killed anyone & always preached love even at point of death. Muhammed killed, Moses killed. Jesus teaches us to love our neighbour's & enemies. Jesus was from a pure source & not from sinners most definitely. Even the Quran tells muslims to be very harsh to the unbelievers & to amputate any human caught stealing when we all know everyone's a sinner & some of those Arab men for example secretly sleep with our girls. My conclusion is you all should read the Quran & New Testament. I haven't read the Old Testament but all I know is that Jesus is the light. I was a Muslim, this year I became a follower of Christ. I am a Christian

Sorry, but the Quran mixed with NT? That is confusion. And how can you believe in Jesus when you have not even read the old testament? A guy comes and says he is the son of the God of the Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and you don't make it your business to find out who this God is, or who Abraham is? Who Isaac and Jabob are? Wow.

Secondly, you ought to know that on this earth, NOTHING takes place unless the Most High God sanctions it. God kills o, and you better believe it:

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

2 Chronicles 21:18 And after all this the LORD smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease

NEW TESTAMENT TOO:

Acts 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

Sorry brother, but God is a man of war. Not this swan-like passive creature you make him to be. Are not His ways perfect?


Deuteronomy 32:4 says: He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he

All praise to the Most High

CaptainJune:


Okay. Tell me why you think so. Are you implying Paul was wrong in Romans 15? Maybe you should read it. Still, I'd like to know why you think the Scriptures do not point to Christ. Then I shall give you many other Scriptures that prophesy of His birth, life and death.



This is a futuristic verse prophesying the return of Christ with His saints to war against the beast and the false prophet and the people gathered against Christ. This battle will usher in the Millennial Reign of Christ. Read Revelations 19:17-21 and Revelations 20:4-6.



These verses are still talking about the Millennial reign of Christ on earth. His reign will usher in a time of peace and harmony such that the effects of sin will no longer operate even on animals. As Christ rules from Jerusalem, the earth will enjoy very great peace and prosperity. Like you said, it is yet to happen.

The Scriptures foretell the revelation of the Messiah. If you want evidence connecting Jesus Christ to the prophecies in the Old Testament of His coming, read the Gospels. Study the Gospels, the life of Jesus Christ. They will shed some light. Besides, if the Old Testament prophets were not referring to Jesus Christ, then who do you think they were talking about?

Sir, you mentioned Isaiah 11, I was just pointing out that it does not point to Christ, or at least the first coming.
As i mentioned before, I am sceptical of the NT, how can I therefore use new testament writings to test the validity of new testament writings.
My logic is, if it doesn't match the writings of the prophets, or goes against the teachings of the Most High as prescribed in the torah, then it cannot be legitimate.

CaptainJune:


Let me briefly explain something about this verse. If you read verses 15 to 28, you will see that Jesus prophesied the siege of Jerusalem which happened AD 70. Verses 29 to 31 talk about the rapture of the saints towards the end of this age. Now, before you understand verses 32 to 34, you must know that if Jesus was talking about verses 29 to 31 in verse 34, then what He said about the Gospel being preached to the whole world before His coming is false.

Why would Christ say something in verse 14 and make contradictory statements in verses 29 to 24?

Jesus Christ never made any single wrong prophecy. Verses 32 to 34 talk about the siege of Jerusalem, not about His return because many things will precede His return, the most important being that the Gospel will be preached to the whole world, something which has not been entirely accomplished even today. There is more to say concerning this explanation should suffice for now.

If you have any questions, let me know and I shall answer to the best of the ability God gives me.

Colossians 1:23 says "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

According to Paul, that was done in his day.

I understand 70AD. But the fact remains that generation did not see all that was mentioned in that passage.

lexiconkabir:
[b] TBC

May I ask what is your belief?

I am not here to fight you. If you see my thread, you will understand where I am.

Appleyard:
@OP, you must understand that salvation is a free gift given by God to whomever is willing to recieve it. You have known the way of truth, judging from how you confessed to have been following posts here and there on Nairaland, hence it would be foolish to suddenly turn off your interest and believe in God as it relates to the New Testament, for by so doing, you have directly rejected the priceless gift of salvation that was delivered to you in the New Testament-hence am afraid you might be loosing or have lost your coveted position in the faith with God. This is because, anyone who disbelieve or rejected the teachings of the New testament is DEAD ALREADY (enternal seperation from God). Disbelieving the synoptic gospels or the teachings of the New Testament simply implies disbelieving Jesus Christ-His arrival, death and resurrection, and for such a person, there is no life. John 3 vs 18.

Brother, you came accross someone on the internet disputing and denouncing what you have accepted as truth for long, now you are suddenly turning away; is it that convincing that you didnt even bother to cross check what you have been told with what you have learnt from the Bible itself? Have you done your own research, or prayed about this sudden predicament threatening your entire spiritual life? or have you so quickly forgotten that there are many anointed sons and intellectuals of Satan out in the open to contradict, denounce and twixt the word of God through false teachings and doctrines of the devils, so that many could be turn away from the truth, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of Satan? 1Timothy 4 vs 1-2.

Well, brother, i will like to know exactly what is it that is troubling you now, since i can not access online videos with my phone. Pls, do reply and lets see if God through His word will not prove such issinuations wrong. Just relax and roll them out.

And i am assuring you in advance-that the old Testament is the father of the new Testament. The New Testament is the fulfillment of the old Testament. If there is no old Testament, there can be no new Testament.

I will be waiting...

Stay well.

Good evening Sir. I think you will see from the way I query responses that I do not simply believe anything. If you watch the video, while the gentleman speaking is not the most eloquent, and makes some not-so-well argued points, there are some very well put arguments that one would struggle to refute with scripture.

May I ask what your understanding is of the 'New Testament', with respect to the bolded?

CaptainJune:


While this question is not addressed to me, let me briefly answer it pending MrPresident1's reply.

You don't need to be confused. David's reign was physical and temporal but Christ's reign is eternal. God had made a promise to David that his descendants will always sit on the throne of Israel, therefore, by His eternal plan Christ came through the lineage of David. The prophet Isaiah said:

"There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots." Isaiah 11:1

"And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, who shall stand as a banner to the people; for the Gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious." Isaiah 11:10

In Romans 15:12, apostle Paul connects Jesus Christ with the scriptures in Isaiah 11:10.

In the book of Luke 1:32-33, the angel of the Lord told Mary, "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end."

What this means is that Christ, not David, shall have the crown and scepter to rule His people forever. The use of David's name in the book of Ezekiel is only symbolic and futuristic of the reign of Jesus Christ.
.

Sir, as with the other gentleman, I must say also, Isaiah 11:10, in my humble opinion, does not point to Christ.

Isaiah 11 also says:

Verse 4: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Did Christ do this?

Verse 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Verse 9:They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

I believe these are yet to take place. I am studying Isaiah at the moment and trying to find solid evidence connecting Jesus to the one the prophets spoke of. I am struggling at present.

Appleyard:


Perfect explanations! @ lanre747, captainjune just nailed home the perfect answers that i dont need to bother on it anymore.

However, allow me to add this to help you assure your mind that most of what took place in the old testament was only a shadow of the things to come-and did came in the new testament.

For instance, God in Isaiah 35 vs 4-6, was speaking through the prophet Isaiah that:

Isaiah 35:3-6 King James Version (KJV)

"Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees. Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you. Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert."

That was God speaking assuring his people that He God himself will come to deliver them. Remember that the Jews have only One God wish they know and believe to be so (Deu. 6 vs 4). Therefore, it was this same God that is now making this promise and assurrance. And pls take note of the characteristics what is to happen when this Ghod will come..the lame to walk, the blind to see, the deaf to hear, etc etc.

The question now is, did this promise ever came to pass? Did God Himself actually came to his people? Well, lets see..

I believe We knew about John the Baptist, how he testified and bare record concerning Jesus to be the messiah-the one whose coming is prefer and so on, right?
Now consider this: in John 1 vs 23-36, John confirmed that he knew Jesus to be the Son of God, and even declared in verse 29,

"behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world".

What this implied is that John understands and knows whom Jesus is...right?

BUT......behold the shocker!


In Mattew Chapter 11, this same John who was in prison as at this time, heard about the works of Jesus, and he sent two of his disciples unto Him saying:

" Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?"

wow! Why would john ask this type of "silly" question, given his own earlier testimony about Jesus? Is something wrong with John from the suffering in the prison? Or is he simply contradicting himself?
The answer is an emphatic NO! Nothing was wrong with him, neither was he mad or confused. It was a deliberate and clever question to reveal a mystry, and the answer of Jesus to that effect nailed home that purpose.


verse 4-6,

" Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: The BLIND receive their sight, and the LAME walk, the LEPERS are cleansed, and the DEAF hear, the dead are raised
up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me."

Halleluya! What does this tell you? Prophecy FULFILLED! Isaiah 35 vs 3-6 was now fulfilled! Jehovah came as he promised. Jehovah God of the old testament fulfilled His promise as Jesus of the new testament!

Isn't that wonderful?

I'm sorry sir, but I believe Isaiah 35 speaks of a time to come. It has the hallmarks of end time.

verse 8: And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

This has not taken place.

Cross referencing with Isaiah 11:

Verse 12: And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth

The Most High shall gather the scattered tribes. This has not happened yet.

Then verse 16:
16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

This sounds like verse 8 of the Isaiah 35 you reference sir. I must conclude that it has not taken place.

Thanks sincerely for all your responses.

See here is the thing. I am a firm believer in the God of Abraham, and I believe He shall not share His glory with anyone else and he is the ancient of days. And having done my own research, I believe those that say many black africans are in fact the true descendants of Jacob.

I am trying to ascertain whether the books and letters we call the New Testament is truth. So you will imagine I would be nervous to accept explanations using the same new testament. For anyone in those days to be considered a man of truth, he would have had to speak from the old testament. This is something I learned from NL admittedly, but I embrace that logic because it makes absolute sense.

So I must put to test those writings and writers spoken of.

So today's troubling passage for me is this (I have not overlooked your previous responses, I want to ask further questions based on what you guys have shared with me to make sure I have understood you):

Jesus spoke of His second coming in Matthew 24 among other places. He said in verse 34:

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Now I have read some commentaries that suggest "generation" is an unknown number of years. I read it as it is written, and as the word is used in most other parts of the bible, i.e. 'the people living at the time'. This has not come to pass yet. Therefore, I am concerned. Any thoughts?

MrPresident1:


Welcome to NL Bro.

The new testament is part of scriptures too, as it is written 'behold I come in the volume of the book' Psalm 40:7, Hebrews 10:7.
Apart from the fact that the new testament gospels are more of a paraphrasing and a symbolic rendition of the Old testament, the gospels are also the story of the incarnation of God as man, and what He had to pass through in order to redeem Israel, God had to die in order to be able to redeem Israel.

As for the letters of Paul and other Apostles, these were Elect to Elect communication, Elect to Elect communicating with themselves as they went throughout the world bringing the good news of the grafting of gentiles into the promises of Israel through the death of Christ. The letters are only for the Elect Apostles who took the Word to the world, many things that the apostle spoke about were not directed to the whole world but to themselves, and because many people do not know this, they actually think the letters are for the generality, they get confused as to what the apostles are saying.

A very good understanding of the Old testament especially the prophetic books opens up the whole Bible to you, for example, if you read Isaiah for the first time under the right perspectives, you should be able to solve atleast 60% of the 'mysteries' of the Bible, then combined with Jeremiah and Lamentations and Ezekiel etc., you will be very surprised at what you will find.

In summary, the New testament is as much part of the Bible as the Old testament.

Thanks for responding sir. I will try and gather my thoughts and summarise them soon. In the meantime, perhaps you can help solve two things that puzzle me:

1) The New Testament speaks of Christ reigning in the Kingdom to come.
The prophet Ezekiel says in 37:24
"And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Either David shall rule over us, or Christ. I'm confused.

2) The New Testament says Jesus is Gods only begotten son
The Most High says in Exodus 4:22 "And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:"


In church, people pray to Jesus often. I begin to wonder, have they put him in the place of the Most High. They will say "no", because he is indeed the most high. Yet, Christ did not claim to be the Most High. I'm confused brother!

jiggaz:
Is this verse talking about the Milenial Reign of CHRIST? i don't think so.... The Millenial Reign of CHRIST is all about Jesus' earthly Kingdom reign dat God promised him.

So 'Christ' shall reign, and then David shall reign? or vice versa? either way...hmm

jiggaz:
Ok Sir!! Whether you believe it or not, the word of the Lord will be fulfilled. CHRIST will reign supreme.

Ezekiel 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

The prophets say David, not Jesus. Please help

Hi guys,

I have been quietly following NL religion section for some years, reading few posts here and there.
There was a time I was really intrigued by the posts of certain members such as Obadiah777, MrPresident1, MostHigh, JesusisLord85. Especially regarding the whole Hebrew connection and how they break down meanings of passages. These posters all hold the New Testament as scripture, from what I can decipher.

But recently,I have been following some Youtube videos by one guy (link below), and after watching it, mehn, I'm really struggling with believing ANYTHING in the new testament.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCafAOkkrGPAr4hEkUW_0Crg
He also has a website. http://www.lietomenomore.org/

The prophecies of Old Testament, as explained by this guy, do not support Jesus as saviour. Please check some of his videos, and let me know your thoughts.

Thanks