₦airaland Forum

plappville:
Christ did not prescribe killing for Christians like Muhammad did, so what do you expect me to disprove ? You could have as well posted the verses those Christians use in supporting thier atrocities to back up your claims..



Muslims still kill Christians. They kill them if they refuse to deny Jesus. Boko and Isis do that. Muslims bomb churches. Christians are persecuted in muslims countries.



Give me the bible verses these so-called christians used like Isis do qoute the quran when killing. If nothing of such. They never killed for Christ but for thier own political purposes.

May be if you read their stories you will know who/what they fought for for yourself. What the world knows and history bears is that they killed for their respective ideologies... and that goes a long way.

Isil and others kill christians and muslims alike just like those christians killed muslims and christians during their reign, It's not new thing and no prophecy is fulfilled through that. I suppose prophecy is fulfilled at a time and other times it's mere 'reoccurrence' and no longer 'fulfilment'. No?

And you just saw boko et al quoting Quran and you're convinced with no further rumination that what they were reading justifies their actions. But if I quote any violence verse from the bible, however damn it may be, you'll seek to explain it. No? Double standard is no fair play!

As for your last statement, it's plain fallacy! The matter in question is not what you can wish away so cheaply. Not as much as you hold others ransom for similar matter.

plappville:
Muslims living with Muslims Very big Problem. Are you watching your tv at all? They re killing each other. In the East almost everyday. Muslims kill muslims. In North Africa same thing. Even northern Nigeria, muslims kill muslims.


Mare misunderstanding, that is dated since after the death of Muhammad? i see. Saudi will give up power to solve the problem.



No one miss Muslims bad news. I think its because Islam itself is bad. Islam is a topic in all social network. If muslims were not killing to promote allah. No one will recognise islam. There are many religions out there. Only Islam kill. Because they want to dominate the world by all means. Yes, islam has fulfilled some bible prophecies.


This just shows the Quran failed or muslims are not following the Qur'an. Muslims are not merciful to themselves. They kill each other. But they obey the part that says they are hard/wicked to unbelievers.

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves.



Islam is temptation itself. Its not surprising what is happening in the Muslim world.



What is happening in the Muslims world is beyond temptation. They are under a spiritual control. For a mum to leave her 6 months old baby and go kill people for allah? Knowing fully well she will die. I mean, islsm should be questioned. .

I can see you couldnt disprove my claim about atrocities committed by christians both within and outside their circle but only tried to not concern yourself with it. But whether you downplay their activities or not doesn't absolve them of the guilt. So whatever blame you could lay on Muslims and Islam is admissible to Christians and Christianity respectively except you want be hypocritical about it.

And there's nothing more as biblical prophesy for Islam to fulfil now. All its prophecies you might be implying had already been fulfilled by christians. As bad as it may be now, no two countries have declared war on each other because of their sectarian differences. While I admit both sects are at the moment sponsoring terrorists to fight for their interest, I maintain that half of the atrocities committed by Christians in the name of Christianity is yet to be executed by Muslims.

Christians have once turned the world into battlefield with each sect recruiting soldiers trying to annihilate people of other sect. And you know what? Christ militias of those days are not regarded as bad people in their various denominations rather, they revere them as those that preserved original copy of Christianity for people like you. But despite the odds, Christians are now living together as if nothing happened. Therefore I strongly believe Muslims will overcome the current situation and anybody that doesn't benefit from it needs not jinx it.

plappville:
Sunni and Shiite Muslims, are they friendly? Do they have mercy for each other? Do they believe and practice same thing? Has Allah failed after Muhammad s death? Why didn't allah solved this problems of this two sects?

Muslims, over to you. Tell us allah is not sleeping. Seeing all that is happening in the Muslims world today. I just can say, Allah has failed .

I sensed you are a good observer but it seems your talent has made a conspiracy theorist out of you. Muslims' internal strife does have nothing to do with that verse you quoted as millions of Muslims are currently and will continue to be living peacefully together regardless of there sectarian differences.

Current situation in muslims' community is mere misunderstanding which I strongly believe WE Muslims will overcome much sooner than YOU Christians expected. Of course, It's a challenge that somehow gives christians sense of belonging and enable them to talk back at muslims when religious issue is being discussed.

Come to think of it, why is it that christians don't miss any bad news about muslims' community and hurriedly bring it here as though it was already being expected? It's not far fetched; it makes you feel fulfiled!

However, don't be mistaken, it happened amongst christians for centuries and they eventually overcame it without making christianity less a religion to its believers. Therefore, Muslims will as well overcome it whether you like it or not.

Mind you, being Muslims doesnt exempt us from being tested on all facets of life, nowhere does Allah promised that and those that you are able to point accusing fingers at can be deemed to be those that seem to have failed to pull through.

God doesn't promise His believers that they won't be tempted in certain ways. But if your belief promised you that, then you've got to think twice.

It's past time already...

calebo101:

May your children never grow to become like you. As it stands now you're completely finished. A matured man seeing Jonathan in his dreams everyday. Nor go die premature death o

Last time I checked, Jonathan celebrated his birthday and the birth of his grand child. That's after returning from engagements bestowed on him by commonwealth. Like I talk, try make your children nor turn up like you. You're totally destroyed.

Talking about sane countries, in a sane country nobody brings back their ancestors to rule them. Talk of an illiterate ancestor .

Of course, in a sane country, their progeny are left to ruin them...

Op don burst my stomach! Rolling on the floor laughing

RevDesmondJuju:
Humanity deserves to be wiped out.

I am looking forward to a thermonuclear holocaust.

It will purge this once beautiful planet of muslims, Yorubas, fagg0ts, greed, waste and degeneracy.

I am not counting on surviving but the mere thought of having all the degeneracy wiped off for good makes me smile.

What's happened to your senses?
or were you borne like this?

Mcbussy:
Putin will do nothing...they flew into Turkish airspace without authorisation.

No matter what, shooting down of a manned aircraft is too much. Infact, It's a declaration war. They have killed a soldier while caring out his assignment and you expect it to just go?

Whatever the implications of going to war may be, folding their arms will be worse.

truthman2012:
My quote is from Pickthal translation.

Then you are guilty of interpolation.

truthman2012:
The long essay you posted has no substance. It is a write-up of some muslims without quranic or hadith backing. Tafsir means interpretation of the quran, how were they able to interpret quran 109 after many years of Muhammad death as they were not yet born then? Note that only Muhammad could receive revelations from allahh, from whom did they get that information from as they didn't meet Muhammad on earth?

So, to form a defence for the quran, any muslim or group of muslims can just interpret it to suit their purpose. Tomorrow another muslim will search the internet and give us another different interpretation to the same verse. This is my experience on nairaland.

Gosh, you really are making me want to vomit! I know you didn't click the link, so how did you know it has no Hadith?

Even the historical background of the sura I put up there is very genuine and no other account was presented to explain the event that led to its revelation.
Besides, is Tafsir possible without Hadith? learn, and stop pretending to know what you know next to nothing about.

truthman2012:
[s]For me, I have used quran 9:29 to interpret 109 and that makes a lot of sense rather than using a formulated story to interpret it.[/s]

Hahaha... This man is really something!

truthman2012:
Who was the verse referring to, state with proof?

Are the Jews and Christians not disbelievers (kafir) in islam?

[Quran 9:29] Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture (i.e the Jews and Christians) as believe not in Allah......

That verse says the Jews and Christians do not believe in allahh, right? Are they not DISBELIEVERS in islam?

[Quran 109:1] Say: O disbelievers! (i.e the Jews and Christians who didn't believe in allahh)
2. I worship not that which ye worship;
3. Nor worship ye that which I worship.

As the Jews and Christians do not believe in allahh but Yahweh, who is this allahh who said he is not Yahweh? He must be an arabian idol, the head of the 360 idols inside Kaaba, and the one worshiped in Muhammad's family, whom Abdullai (meaning servant of allahh) was named after and who falsely claimed to be God. But his actions and the way he is worshiped like other idols in Mecca show is the head of the arabian idols.

The Devil used Muhammad to make his father's idol, which coincidentally was the head of Meccans' idol the only god to be recognized. So, when muslims talk about oneness of god, what they are saying in reality is cancellation of other idols to remain only allahh the head.

I think you must appreciate this islamic free education.

[b]Historical Background of the Sura:

There was a time in Makkah when although a storm of
opposition had arisen in the pagan society of Quraish
against the message of Islam preached by the Holy
Prophet (upon whom be peace), yet the Quraish chiefs
hall not yet lost hope that they would reach some sort
of a compromise with him. Therefore, from time to time
they would visit him with different proposals of
compromise so that he accepted one of them and the
dispute between them was brought to an end. In this
connection, different traditions have been related in the
Hadith .
According to Hadrat Abdullah bin Abbas, the Quraish
proposed to the Holy Prophet; "We shall give you so
much of wealth that you will become the richest man of
Makkah. We shall give you whichever woman you like in
marriage. We are prepared to follow and obey you as
our leader, only on the condition that you will not speak
ill of our gods. If you do not agree to this, we present
another proposal which is to your as well as to our
advantage."
When the Holy Prophet asked what it was, they said
that if he would worship their gods, Lat and Uzza, for a
year, they would worship his God for the same space of
time. The Holy Prophet said: "Wait awhile; let me see
what my Lord commands in this regard."
Thereupon the revelation came down: Qul ya-ayyuhal-
kafirun... and: Qul afa-ghair Allahi... (Az-Zumar: 64):
"Say to them: ignorant people, do you bid me to
worship others than Allah?" (Ibn Jarir, Ibn Abi Hatim,
Tabarani). According to another tradition from Ibn
Abbas, the Quraish said to the Holy Prophet: "O
Muhammad, if you kiss our gods, the idols, we shall
worship your God.Thereupon, this Surah was sent down.
(Abd bin Humaid).[/b]
englishtafsir.com/quran/109/index.html
By the way, can I know the translation version you are repeatedly quoting. Your own

Pyrrho:
Whatever you believe in doesn't change the fact that Allah wasnt mention in any history book as the God of Abraham and Moses except your Quoran which was written by an alien man of an alien culture.

Words can never change facts.

Stop the self-deceit.

Allah is a fake.

And now that even Wikipedia can't solve you guys problems, what can I say?

Over the centuries, The 'concept of God' in Christendom has suffered great deal of damages that it can't withstand a bit of acid test. Pagans of different origins and set of beliefs have over the time incorporated their polytheistic understanding of God into christianity.

But, what do you people know than to just be shouting your ass out over lies and lies.

truthman2012:
Allah himself confirms he is not Yahweh that the Jews and Christians worship:

Quran 109:1] Say: O disbelievers! [s](i.e the Jews and Christians who didn't believe in allahh)[/s]
2. I worship not that which ye worship;
3. Nor worship ye that which I worship.
4. And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

As much as I know, that Surah wasn't addressing Christians or Jews as such, no interpreter would put those words there. I'm very sure you are responsible for that interpolation, and it's very wrong- it's plain corruption.

truthman2012:
Who is this allahh and why did he claim Yahweh's prophets as his own?

I'm now assuming this's too complicated for you to understand. Or maybe you are enjoying your folly. Either ways, I don't think I may be of help.

Pyrrho:
What ya saying is that Muhammed somehow stumbled upon the ORIGINAL name of God (who is Allah to Islam's early prophets).

The name was already in existence before Muhammed. Allah and its cognates were being used in preislamic era amongst semetic language speaking people. Each prophet used the rendition of the name, so it doesn't necessary that they used Allah.

Pyrrho:
The entire jew nation lost it? And wrongly assumes it is Yahweh.

Well, there is no evidence that Yahweh is a correct form of the name. The fact that Jesus and John that happened to be the most recent biblical prophet never used it also add to its suspicion.

And do you know Yahweh was one of the pantheist's gods? Just like the english word "God", it was later adopted by seeming monotheist as creator God. In essence, Yahweh was a character promoted to the level of god - idolized, and later on adopted as the supreme deity in Israel.

Pyrrho:
Cick on the link posted by your brother above me.

Open your dictionary, when I say original, I mean origin-al.

Stop typing trash.

I doubt you read what's written there yourself.

Pyrrho:
Muhammed's Allah was Yahweh to his early prophets.

This's your mere wording, and it holds no authority over what I believe. Many Christians believe they can hold Muslims ransom by saying Muslims and Christians don't worship the same God. But that tactic will only work on a Muslim that doesn't know who (s)he worships.

truthman2012:
Who is disputing the name?

Does your quran accuse the Jews and Christians of the name of their God?

It is you islamists on nairaland that are disputing the name without authentic proof, just because you are caught in a corner.

caught in a corner? you'd better wake up!

I think you should bring it out where Quran used Yahwe for God.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

Pyrrho:
Does semitic language originate from the jews?

One can't say the origin of semitic languages. They're relative languages with slight difference in the way words bearing the same meanings are written.

Hebrew, Assyria, Arabic and Aramaic are Semitic languages. Their words share the same roots, so they can easily be traced back and forth to one another.

Pyrrho:
Which name is original?

Well, I guess you are not informed, so I'll give you offer to argue it.

Allah is one of the original and undisputable names for God in semitic languages.

Pyrrho:
Muslims on the thread are pretending not to understand what the Op is saying.

You muslims believe in Allah, the God of moses(musa), jesus(isa), abraham(ibrahim).
In their own original language, God was called Yahweh, or Yehovah...

Why can't you all adopt the name of God in jewish language if this is true?

Or is your Allah not yahweh?

Why should I eave undisputed name for disputed one?

truthman2012:
Every name of God in Israel is a conjucture to you, yet you have no proof. So the Israelites have no name for God for several thousands of years. Lie of the Devil.

You don't expect me to do your assignment for you, do you?
You asserted a claim with no corroboration and yet holding people ransom for it. What gibberish!

truthman2012:
Prove that it is a mere conjecture.

God have many names in Israel including El and Jehovah. You should now say ''El Akbar'' or ''Jehovah Akbar''. Pick whichever appeal to you and let's have your experience.

Jews hardly call God by name because they believe it's disrespectful, so they neglected the name for too long time and consequently lost its original form.

And they use El mainly as suffix for names and places related to God. They don't really consider it as God's name.

Also, jehovah is another form of conjectural name for God formed from YHVH which none knows what it really means.

truthman2012:
What was God's name known in Israel?

They lost the correct/original form of the name, so the form 'Yahweh' is a mere conjectural one.

truthman2012:
Moses no doubt was a Jew as Jesus was according to the Bible. These people were prophets of the Almighty Yahweh.

Many years later, Muhammad's allahh also claimed both of them were his prophets, creating the impression that Yahweh is the same as allahh. If the muslims believe they are the same, for just one week, always say in your solat ''Yahweh Akbar'' instead of ''Allahu Akbar'' afterall you are referring to the same God.

You will not have done that for two days before you will realize the difference.

Try it.

What evidence do you have that Yahweh is the correct name?

bingbagbo:
IT IS A SERIOUS MATTER!
Evolution of the Quran.......
The Original Quran was a book which Allah handed to Angel Jubril, who handed it down to Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and mercy of Allah go to him now!). Please note that the original Quran was a mental book, meant to be recited, memorized and recited. That's why it was called "Qur' an" which means "to recite from memory". Angel Jubril did not give Muhammad any hand written book but a book that was transmitted direct to memory through recitation.
The original intention of Allah was for the book to be transmitted to the memories of all Muslims through recitation and memorization and recitation and memorization, on and on like that until all Muslims had memorized the complete Quran. It was a mental book and was supposed to remain as a mental book. Neither Allah nor Muhammad ever commanded that the Quran be written with hand and no one ever dared to dO such thing during the life time of prophet Muhammad. In fact Allah had given a clear warning and placed a curse on whoever would write out the book with the hand of men.
<<<Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah," >>> (Quran 2:79).
However, some years after the prophet died, some people who counted themselves wiser that Allah and his prophet, decided to ignore this warning and used their hands to download the Quran from memory into a hand written book. The first man who ordered the writing of the Quran was Abubakar. Several years after Abubakar died, Othman ordered a re-writing of the Quran and he (Othman) burnt all copies of the Quran that emanated from the earlier works of Abubakar. Today we have the Quran according to Othman which is a far cry from the original Quran that was given to the Prophet by the angel Jubril.
Now take the following questions to the Imam nearest to you and come back with his answer. Please don't attempt to answer the questions by yourself. Ask your Imam and let him give you the answer out of his wealth of wisdom. Then reproduce the answer here, so that we can learn from your Imam.
1. Did Allah or Muhammad command that the Quran be written with hands after the death of the prophet?
2. Is the Quran of today exactly the same as the one given to the prophet by the angel?
3. If question "2" answers "No", I remain silent but if the answer is "Yes", where is the evidence to prove that today's Quran is the same at the one given to the prophet.
Evolution of the Quran.......
IT IS A SERIOUS MATTER!

The verse you used as the basis of your argument is not only insufficient but also misused. And mind you, before you can say you want to start an objective argument, first thing is to get your facts rightly.

BERNIMOORE:
are you a 'quran believer' if yes, dont lecture me about muslim, nobody stops you from quoting from quaran to prove your point, provided you dont quote outside quran or telling us that we cannot read literal quran and understand, so prove your point, start with quran 9:123

Quaran 9:123

Sahih International
O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous.

I'm sorry but I don't have time I can waste with you.

BERNIMOORE:
yes! it will interest you that jesus did not keep us in the DARK about the 'sword' the way Quran kept its 'Believers in the dark

Revelation 2:16,18
16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
18 ............These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;




lets see how jesus applied his sword to devide families in the same chapter you quoted, interesting!


and the sword that devides comes to play here



Example of someone that jesus used the 'sword of his mouth to devide from his families'' is peter;



finally the sword mentioned by jesus is not to 'slay anyone in the throath' as commanded in

quaran Surat Al-'Anfāl (The Spoils of War)[size=18pt] سورة الأنفال [/size]http://quran.com/8/12 which directs quran believer to directly behead, cut off, slaughter and strike a perceived umbeliever (God have mercy)

]Surat Al-'Anfāl 8;12
''so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."


but rather

Isaiah 49:2
And He has made My mouth like a sharp sword;
In the shadow of his hand He has hidden Me,
And made Me a polished shaft;
In his quiver He has hidden Me

can you see the beauty of the bible to 'bible believers' and the curse of quaran to ''quaran believers''
if you still dont see the that quaran teaches it believers to be evil,then you are a symphatiser to the jihadists and need to free yourself today, and secretly renounce your support for quran and find any other religion that promotes peace it may not even be christianity just be a blessing to your neibor and not harsh like in quran 9:123
thanks

You could have done well had you not been hypocritical. You took the pain to acquit bible of any blame by quoting almost the entire chapter in question and even tapped into another chapter in order to prove a point.
But, interestingly, the best you could do for Quran was to extract few words out of a verse and start crying foul. Isn'that pathetic?

malvisguy212:
stay mute.

Why?

OLAADEGBU:
Do Muslims actually agree with the OP?

Question! What should I say when I couldn't read the op?

kay1one2:
Islam is a horrible occult that thrives on death, terrorism and lies. It harps on the false ideology that man can achieve God-like righteousness and power through physical works and activity; a belief that was brought to nought after 2000years of Judaism which couldn't produce salvation.
Jesus Christ came to show and provide a path to a higher way through His death and resurrection on the Cross of Calvary. Only by faith in Him can man achieve true salvation from flesh and sin; not through violence and self-righteous works.
As jihadis engage in their futile attempt to conquer the world, its imperative for Christians to remember that the weapons of our warfare (prayer, fasting, praise, thanksgiving) are not carnal (bombs, suicide vests, political strategies) but are mighty through God to pull down strongholds of islamic demonism that has pervaded today's world.

Your write up contained lot of grave errors which I don't expect you to take note of and even don't really wish you do. However, I'm so curious as to what message you are trying to pass through that attached image.
Does it relate to Islam somehow?

Rilwayne001:
Its the other way round sir.

Your enormous contribution back then really had a lot of valuable impact in my life as a muslim.



Amen my dear brother..

LOL you are too much.

Rilwayne001:
I definitely have, eveñ tho I didn't know that you were the one.. happy to see you again my dear brother / my mentor

Hope all is well with you sir?

Astagfurllah! your level of steadfastness in Deen is what I still look forward to achieving. May Allah continue to increase you in Iman.

All is well sir!!!

Rilwayne001:
Great! Which account is that?

This. I don't think you have come across it before now, It's somewhat quiet.