₦airaland Forum

Time to cancell baba obj by Obidients. From Oba of Benin it's now the turn of OBJ. Fingers crossed !

Kukutenla:
You're only jumping to semantics. He criticized the removal of subsidy. Removal of subsidy is not a solution to economic problem. It's an economic problem itself. So I don't know how people identifying a problem means they are going to solve it the same way. It's just like going to America. Getting there is a problem not a solution to going there. Some will trek, others will drive while some might even swim there and few will fly. How each approaches it differs and will affect the outcome. One might get there early enough and get a pat on the back. Another might get lost in the desert. One might drown while one might get there very late. So using the excuse that everyone said they'll remove subsidy shows a lack of thought. The real question is how to remove it. Tinubu along with Atiku and Obi also said they will revive the economy. How come you're not holding him up to that?

Now you are changing the goal post. I just reminded you what Obi said openly about removing subsidy and now you are moving to another topic of reviving the economy. Why?

BitterTruth0001:
What useless message

You’ve been to Obi’s garage to check his cars? Online miscreants cannot be taken seriously .
Yea enjoy your situation under the current best president ever . He’s not a flop . Another protest in the North and SW loading in Jan . This one would be called Ebi ti pawa pata pata.

Why not appeal to Obi to help Otti with ideas to generate money so that Abia can stop paying the ridiculous #20000 minimum wage which has since be discarded. Even if he can't pay #70k now let him upgrade it to #30k first. Or does it mean that Obi and Otti are clueless on how to generate funds to pay workers living wage? Obi that can not help Otti pay
#30k minimum wage is always criticising Tinubu that is ready to pay #70+ minimum wage for federal workers. Is that not hypocrisy? Imagine if he had won elections. Same way they are clueless in Abia is how he would have been clueless about Nigeria blaming Buhari. Do you hear Tinubu blaming Buhari for his challenges?; An incompetent man always find excuses to give while an achiever hits the ground running.

Kukutenla:
Again you're making false claim. There's no international price for petrol. Petrol price even difference from state to state in the US.

And yes!! Petrol price is cheaper in the US than Nigeria. You're using a false premise of equivalence when the parameters are not the same. The US minimum wage is $7.25 per hour which translates to $1740 a month.
The average price of a litre of petrol is $0.91.
This means that monthly minimum wage in the US can fetch you 1,912 litre of petrol
By contrast, in Nigeria, even at the unrealistic price of N600 per litre and signed but not implemented N70,000, you can only get a maximum of 117litres!

Now you are bringing in other parameters. Why not let's stick to the basics? If we go that way then it becomes complex because we then compare rent, tax, electricity etc. Eg whats average rent in US and Nigeria? Nigerias #70000 minimum wage can fetch you a room rent of #8000 per month. Can you get that in America?
But to the main issue petrol price in America is almost 1 dollar which is still almost double Nigerias price after Tinubu removed subsidy. I dollar is now about #1500. So, you see my point. In fact petrol marketers claim the landing cost of fuel is about #1100 and for NNpc to sell at #560 then govt must have subsidized it. Even at #650 Tinubu is still subsidizing it though he has not admitted it. He has only reduced the subsidy and not removed it totally. That shows consideration on his part if anything. He knows the implications if he removed it totally. While I understand the fact that there is a lot of corruption in the system I believe Tinubu will handle all issues including corruption in a matter of time. Wait for the next two years and you will see the progress we would have made as a nation. Those of you that japa might reconsider coming back.

We need to know the details of the transaction. My guess is that Gbenga Daniels signed the contract but Amosun cancelled it maybe because he wanted his own people who will cater to him. If we look very well we will find out corruption is at the root of all this issue.

Kukutenla:
US subsidises its oil industry by billions of dollars. Fact check me.
Nigeria does not subsidise agriculture. The last govt that subsidised agriculture was Jonathan's which was cancelled as soon as Buhari took office. You can't claim to subsidise agriculture when your farmers are the poorest and largely engage in subsistence farming. Your farm produce also respond to market forces.
Russia, US, Saudi, Angola all subsidise oil. All of them!!

What is the effect of their subsidy? Does that mean that it is cheaper there than in Nigeria? Can I go to America and buy a litre of PMS at the equivalent price of #650 per litre ? I would love to be informed, please. We are talking about an international product subject to international price determined by cartels such as OPEC and Tinubu removed subsidy while America retained subsidy. Does that not mean that we are paying more for fuel than Americans? I want to be educated on this please. How much is a litre of PMS in America?

Kukutenla:
OBJ spoke against the policies. Go back and listen to what he said very well.
If you want the nation to make progress, you have to be honest with yourself instead of defending politicians. All I've seen from your arguments here are attempts to whitewash Tinubu and defend him even with blatant untruths and illogical assertions.
No nation can progress on a foundation of lies.

I still say he didn't. He only talked about implementation. Obj is not a lily livered president. If he feels strongly against such policy he would have penned another strongly worded letter to Tinubu like he did to Jonathan and Buhari. His only reservation was how it was implemented not the removal. He felt it should be removed in phases. But whether it was removed in phase or not everybody believed it has to go. Remember that Atiku and Obi said the same thing. Obi even said he would remove subsidy from day 1. So what's the noise about if all the major contestants promised to remove subsidy from day 1?

Kukutenla:
I don't know what you mean by everybody knew.... I don't and till tomorrow, no one will convince me that subsidies are bad when all the countries you seek to emulate have subsidies in place one way or the other including US the bastion of capitalism.
One of the funniest claims by NOI in those days was that only the rich benefit from subsidy. Well, reality has proven that to be wrong no?
Forget political will. You're just making excuses. Buhari removed and returned subsidy giving it a new name "under-recovery". Tinubu is still living in denial. So how come you single only Jonathan out as lacking political will?
Again, we're here discussing economic issues not political so forget about LGA or no LGA except you're just here to bootlick.
You can describe how the rest of the country can emulate Lagos success story

Good you mentioned US, a producer and buyer of fuel. Does the US subsidize it's oil too? I know US subsidies agriculture but does it subsidize fuel? What about UK? France ? Then is our govt not subsidizing agriculture in Nigeria? Are fertilizers not subsidized despite the corruption there. Tinubu has even committed himself to more food subsidy. He has ordered for tractors for mechanized farming to be distributed states. Does Lagos not subsidize education? Do Nigerian trained medical students who end up japaing abroad to work for dollars not have their tuition subsidized in Nigeria ? Many medical students would not have been able to afford medicine if they were outside the country. But my point is tell me any oil producing country that is using it's oil for subsidy - Russia, US Saudi Arabia, Angola , SA etc.

Kukutenla:
It seems you do not understand what SAP is. It is not just about devaluing the currency. That's just one step. Removing subsidies and cutting government spending are also part of it. Removing import restrictions which IMF calls opening up the economy is another. Did China do all that?
NOI, Adesina, Soludo are pro-capitalist economists. Even at that, I'm surprised you're quick to claim their support. If they had spoken otherwise, I'm sure you'll have found an appropriate label for each of them. OBJ just spoke against the policies recently. I don't think you'll accept his criticism.
Tinubu obviously acted on IMF recommendations. If you have information about case studies, share and enlighten cynics like me

Obj did not speak against subsidy removal. He only said subsidy is back and that is understandable. Of course, he is right. Everybody knows that so that is not news but the subsidy is there because of the devaluation. It's left for Tinubu to manage the parameters as long as we make progress as a nation.

DeepSight:
My dear, look let me not waste time going through the philosophy of the matter - which I can see we will disagree on based on your posts with other people up there. I will only say that the IMF/ Bretton Woods prescriptions have been around for decades and have never worked in a single third world country. They have rather consistently destroyed lives and economies everywhere they have been implemented - so much so that it is obvious that the destruction of lives and the pauperization of populations is actually what those policies were deliberately designed for and history proves this.

As I said, let me not waste your time with arguing the philosophy of it - let me just go to the practicality. Let us assume you needed to remove subsidies, fine. No where in the world would you remove them in one fell swoop the way it was done in this country last year. That is unheard of. The spike in PMS price was over 200 per cent - and believe you me, I have researched this matter - there had never been such an increase in the price of PMS in a single day in any country in the world. Other countries which removed subsidies did so gradually over time in order to reduce the shock to the system. One does not have to be an economist to know that the ripple effects on the prices of other commodities will lead to hyper-inflation which is what has obviously happened. And there is no way that is good for the economy. If it must have been done, it should have been done in phases. Carefully managed phases.

Now as if that was not bad enough, you then proceeded to float the naira immediately at the same time. This was the biggest disaster of all. You have to understand a number of things. First is that an import dependent economy cannot afford to float or devalue its currency, That is a prescription for suicide. Because if you import everything you use, as we do, then you are spending USD all the time and if you devalue your currency then you will require more and more of your currency to procure less and less USD and that will finish you off in a vicious cycle - because the more USD you chase the more your currency will fall.

But it was not just this obvious principle that made it a disaster - what made it the greatest disaster is the fact that you are importing the said PMS you have removed subsidies from. You are paying USD for the PMS, and thus it stands to reason that once your currency falls, you will pay even more USD for that PMS and this is why the landing cost of PMS has become so high, that it is now obvious that the government is in fact still paying some subsidy to retain the price at circa N600 - because based on the exchange rate it should be over N1, 000.

Therefore by flloating the naira at the same time as removing subsidy, the FG actually defeated the purpose of subsidy removal.

The net result has been the death, destruction and unspeakable hardship which has followed. The truth is that these policies are ill thought out and they have never succeded in any third world country where they have been prescribed, and they frankly were not intended to.

Now, to adderss your question "what have we acheived through fuel subsidy since indpendence" - the answer is very simple and it is staring you in the face. Sometimes you dont know what you have until you lose it. The safety net that the economy had from this kind of devastation and hardship is what we acheived. Just compare the ecomony of a mere one and a half years ago to what obtains today and you will see the difference. That is what it is.

No economy can grow when you deflate it and take away the purchsing power of the people. Everywhere economies have grown, there has been an injection, and not a deflation. The devaluation of the naira accompanied with hyper inflation has made every Nigerian vastly poorer. And there is nothing positive about a pauperized population - let no one deceive you - there is no long term gain in such. It will only ever deliver death and hardship.

Finally please stop comparing the removal of subsidies in places like the UK with what has happened here. Not only are the subsidies not the same and the products being subsidized not the same, the entire picture is different. This is aside from the fact that no one was insane enough to remove 100 percent of a critical subsidy in a single day. Anyone who does that to his country is bent on destroying it.

cc nairalanda1 / kukutenla / kukutente23.

I appreciate your response and value it. I like people who argue issues intellectually not abuse because we all learn from it . The bottom line is making Nigeria better. Now ther is an important aspect of subsidy that nobody has addressed here. Part of the reason subsidy has to go is that in effect we are not just subsidizing ourselves. We are subsidizing all our West African neighbors or more. Are we Father Christmas? Can we sustain that? All those other countries are our fuel cheaply and developing over us since they are smaller and more manageable. We can't be penny wise and pounds foolish. As I speak to you, tell me any African country selling fuel at lower price than us - Ghana, SA, Egypt, Kenya, Coteviire. The effect is that we are attracting ants to ourselves for their own purpose while we think they love us. We will cry the day the fuel dries up and we have not developed alternatives. We need to be more businesslike in the way we manage our main resource. We should not waste it simply because we produce it. Like I said if we do, we will cry the day it finishes. Let our oil be like gold, let's not use it to play with anybody including our neighboring brothers

CSTRR:
By 2027 when this govt is voted out and cast into the dustbins of history with all its bigotry, and crassness, hopefully people like you would fade away with it.

I am doubly sure that even if this govt gets voted out , Obi will never be the president.

Kukutenla:
Inflation during the time of Trump? You're badly misinformed dude. US had historically low inflation figures during Trump's time that even Obama had to start trying to take some credit for how well the economy was doing.
We achieved a relatively better standard of living if nothing else and more equitable national wealth distributing.
Nigerians today are living worse than peasants while their rulers are becoming fatter like Emperors.

I have been following the Harris - Waltz campaigns and that's not what they are saying and I believe those guys don't lie openly like trump. They also said trump tenure had the highest unemployment in recent times. Such videos are on YouTube.

Lookmun:
The main issue is the opaqueness of the oil sector. Are you sure that subsidy is actually gone? Because landing price of PMS is still higher than the amount being charged by oil marketers. Boosting of the domestic output would reduce importation and reduction or elimination of importation will naturally remove the need for subsidies in the first place.
There is so much “abrakadabra” in that sector. Firstly we hear new dates that the Port-Harcourt refinery will kickstart every now and then. Then to the Dangote Refinery - it’s one story after the other. They complain that there are internal and external cabals. Who are these people? Is it the mechanic on the street that will fight these cabals? With snippets of information that government officials allegedly own refineries abroad, you cannot help but scratch your head and ask if the sector is not being intentionally sabotaged. As someone would say, oil theft is not pilfering candy at a local store but it is organized crime, any sincere move to sanitize that sector would involve a lot of probing and bringing people to book. Subsidy no doubt was draining the resources of the state but even if the removal of the subsidy was meant to address this problem of draining revenues, the question to ask is - what will the government do with more funds in their hands? If you say that the allocations to state governments is higher and you don’t even have a concrete plan on how to use the funds to alleviate the direct problems that the subsidy removal will cause, you need to think circumspectly.

I totally agree with you my brother. I dont have problem with govt raising revenue but I strongly believe it must be accounted for. If you check my past posts you will notice that I always believe in accountability at all levels. That why I regard the senators as looters because they have been hiding their salaries and allowances for long. And I truly understand you argument about whether subsidy has been fully removed or not but since their is improved revenue let's start demanding accountability from everyone - Federal, States and LGAs. Also, all the salaries and allowances of legislators should be public knowledge. Remove subsidy but enforce accountability. It will quicken our growth. Why can't we have some Kigali in Nigeria starting from Lagos ?

Kukutenla:
Did you read the Op or you deliberately missed the point. There's nothing Tinubu is doing that's new. He's not changing any status quo. He's doing same thing Babangida did in 1986 christened SAP and he's getting the same result.

OBJ also attempted it but was heavily resisted by Tinubu backed NLC.

Goodluck also had the same luck while attempting it.

So how did Tinubu who was to the left of these policies when he was not in office become a latter day reformist? You missed the gist of the Op.

And it is false to claim Nigeria has been paying subsidy and defending naira since independence. At least basic history teaches us that naira was introduced in 1973.
Subsidy for fuel first appeared in the late 70s in Nigeria.
At least get your facts right if you want to argue

Everybody knew subsidy was not sustainable and not in the long term interest of Nigeria. All past presidents without exception agreed in theory that it had to go. Even Nigerian born economists like NOI believed same. The only issue was when. Jonathan simply didn't have the political will to do it. All the same the important thing is that it is the right way to go. Is it a bed of roses? No. Painful, yes but necessary. Tinubu is just a well prepared courageous leader. He confronted the subsidy dilemma same way he confronted the states subjugation of LGAs autonomy. And you can see the instant effect in projects undertaken by LGAs in Lagos. The LGA conundrum that most past presidents including Buhari couldn't achieve Tinubu bodily achieved it and no heavens fell. Who would have believed that a Nigerian president can rule against the all powerful governors. The same govs that brought the downfall of Jonathan. That is a signal of Tinubu's doggedness and conviction. It's not by making noise. He is already restructuring Nigeria politically and economically without making noise about it. That is the Hallmark of a great leader not the submissions of a brown envelope politically exposed journalist. Lagos success remains a template for the whole country to emulate.

DeepSight:
China never implemented these ridiculous policies, please stop lying. These [policies have never succeeded in a single country in the world.

Was there no inflation in US during the time of trump? Even UK removed subsidy on different items at different times in their best interest. But nobody has answered my question. What did we achieve with the fuel subsidy we benefited from since independence?

nedu666:
China did not devalue its currency because inf said so but to aid its export driven economy. If not, why the imf and America declare China a currency manipulator. The Asian tigers who implemented imf policies during the Asian currency crisis of the 1990s later ditched such policy to follow their home grown policy

And you think Tinubu does not know all these? Some of you think you are the only one with intelligence. All that write up because of one year hardship. So you people really think continuing with subsidy and defending the naira like we have done since independence without anything to show for it is the best way to keep going. You want a change in your country without trying something new, how is that possible? Only a mad man keeps doing something the same way and expect a different outcome. Now Tinubu is trying to change from the status quo and you people are trying to frustrate him. Since independence we can't generate 6,000 MWt of power and you want us to continue as before? Is that how SA attained it's own power capability? You people always quote other countries progress without telling us the sacrifices they made. Do you think they got there sleeping on a bed of roses?

It is against Yorubas culture to be the first to attack other people's elders. The only time a Yoruba man will do that is if you insult my elder. Edos have not insulted our elders in Yorubaland why would we insult the Oba of Benin? We all know the people that wake up their elders with kicks. From the north to the West, who have they not insulted ? So I don't need evidence to guess who the culprits are. It's in their nature. Never a Yoruba youth.

CSTRR:
A nairaland thread that should have been allowed to languish.

Igbos came and give him attention.

You are arguing with a brain-dead tribalist on why the Niger- bridge is important?

Can't be me.

But if it is calabar coaster road you will be masturbating on it. Thank God the Op has called out your hypocrisy. All the rubbish you did during Buharis time, you think we will take it from you?

Good. These are some of the evidences of Tinubu's vision in Lagos. Same is about to be replicated all over Nigeria. While mediocres give excuses, achievers hit the ground running. Meanwhile, Tinubu has not spent up to 2 years and we see all these developments. Imagine if he had ruled us in the last 8years. Kigali would have been a child's play to Lagos. He systemically guided all his successors to success and we can all see impact of the political stability in Lagos due to Tinubus leadership of Lagos. Same can happen across Nigeria. Anyway, at this rate Lagos will soon become another Kigali.

BitterTruth0001:
Which one your papa dey drive ?

Why not attack the message instead of the messenger. We have said so severally that Obi is not yet prepared for Nigerian leadership. Had he won he would have been the biggest flop of the century. That's why he is referred to as Agulu packaged fraud. Soyinka called him gbajue master.

Kukutenla:
You can also jump into the gap and give us examples of countries that implemented SAP and are better for it.
But first, I must correct your false claim that China devalued its currency SAP style. China devalued its currency to keep exports cost low as a manufacturing country. Even IMF complained when China did so which is unlikethem. If Nigeria was a self-sufficient, manufacturing country, IMF will never tell you to devalue your currency because that will make your goods cheaper than the Western countries. You should learn to situate issues appropriately

First thank you for admitting that China devalued it's currency in it's interest. But the way the author put it as if other countries have not used it successfully.
Secondly, I don't have to name give other countries beside China. When I do you would come up with another excuse.
Thirdly, if it is such a bad policy other world class economists like NOI, Adesina, Soludo, Nigerian professors would have come out to fault the policy. Do you think Tinubu act without conducting case studies? Only the gullible are deceived by the antics of the writer and we know their game plan.

All that is written above are all bladerdash ! The writer is either a political jobberman or ignorant. First the fact that Babangida failed while implementing those policies does not invalidate the economic policies or make Tinubu approach an automatic failure. He conveniently gave us examples of places or times when it failed without telling us if places and times where it succeeded. Removal of subsidy and devaluation of a countries currency are not new approaches to management of economies. Big countries have used it successfully and prospered. Did China not use same strategies and succeed and now competing with America and others. Didn't China devalue it's currency at some point and time and hugely benefited from it. The truth is that whatever policy you implement depends on the knowledge of the implementer and how it's done not on the policy and I have no doubt that Tinubu knows what he is doing. Yes, temporary hardships even in Malaysia he cited it was never smooth ride, so please stop brainwashing us. He is a fake prophet preaching heaven without dieing, which is impossible..
Atikus project #2027 commissioned envelope writers !

Greymosh1990:
No matter how bad Dangote is, appoint him Minister of Petroleum and see if things will not turn round for good. How can Kyari through his friend that owns Matrix Energy be a major importer of fuel and diesel from Malta allow our refineries to work or support subsidy removal? It is only God that will save this country from these cabal.

So, your suggestion is to appoint a full blown capitalist petrol minister, are you for real? So that petrol can jump to double it's current price? Do you know cement price in Nigeria when Dangote took over the industry? Let's use Dangotes cement template to judge him. Govt has taken the wisest decision to protect us from capitalist exploitation.

NaijaCrusader:
Regardless of where it happens Tinubu is failing Nigeria big time. He is the commander in chief and chief security officer of the nation. He cannot protect a thing. Any government that cannot protect lives and properties is not a government

You can only protect those that want protection. If a people hate and envy you to the extent to wish coup on your administration what would you do? Though not all of them. Some have common sense, like Umahi, Uzodinma, Innoson etc

Robchuks77:
Ewu. Iwuanyanwu never lived in Lagos... Mk una try dey travel.. Empty heads

What of Obi? He too never lived in Lagos?

The work of billionaire developers.

Did this one too happen in Edo when a whole Anambra commissioner and wife were abducted ? No wonder Iwuanyawu lived and died in Tinubu's Lagos. Same Lagos they called slum. Same Lagos Tinubu made conducive for their leaders to rest peacefully in. Same Lagos their Agulu messiah took refuge in for years .

So long there is stability in fuel price. Dangote should compete with the fuel importers. Let's see if he can do better than them in terms of price. The era of monopoly business like happened in cement is over.

Clueless Otti and Obi.

viccy12:
You can never see an Igbo man insulting the Benin Oba! We are thousands in Bini doing business, paying homage to the Omonoba, inter marrying with them. So, why would an Igbo insult the Oba ? Give me a reason!

Don't Igbos do business in Lagos? Does that stop them from abusing Lagos Oba or even the president? You

chidiokay:
And what as supporting these evil govt done for you, even if you work for them is the stipend you get enough to live a comfortable life in Nig. of today

Under 1yr, Tinubu as taken Nigeria far backward than any govt in history of Nigeria, check stats of anything

Nigeria recorded the highest failure and inflation in history .. Tinubu failure is so transient Nigeria went to olympics and nmedal was won.

I see the same thing the man sees and I don't need to collect any stipend from Tinubu to support him. You might not see what I see but I see a greater future with Tinubu in charge. I am not bothered about temporary hardship if it leads to a new Nigeria. I like the fact that Tinubu is trying something new. Only a mad man keeps doing things the same way and expect a different outcome. All the subsidy we have been benefiting since independence where has it led us? All our neighbouring countries are doing better than us without subsidy. Is that not food for thought for us .I prefer govt removing subsidy and then we demand accountability. Till date our fuel is still the cheapest but we are big for nothing. We are subsidizing all our West African neighbors. Are we father Christmas?

PlayMaker14:
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I gave up on reading at this point. Similar like declaring that "Portable will WIN Grammys."

That guy is more exposed than you, more accomplished, operated at higher level than you and more knowledgeable and intelligent than you. He knows what he is talking about. The earlier you learn from the intelligence of others the better for you. Abusing Tinubu, hating Tinubu, trolling Tinubu will not achieve anything in your life. The earlier you know this the better, the better for you. Instead of calling him names why not solve problems and see your life more meaningful. Tinubu has solved many problems how many have you solved for Nigerians or you are part of the problems.