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ChinemeremFidel:
Good Day Nairalanders

One of the greatest and most revered gift I will appreciate right now is if am gifted with a Bible (New King James Version or New Living Translation or ELV).
I would really appreciate your kind gesture.


Please no insult,,I just need this little gift.

I will appreciate it.

We could discuss the bible together when you finally have one.....here is my WhatsApp number 08167469103

Kobojunkie:
1.

2. So your doubt is in whether Jesus Christ meant it or not when He said, 2000 years ago, "God’s kingdom is here with you !"?

In Luke 17: 20, 21 Jesus was not saying that the kingdom of God merely resides in people but was implying that as king of that kingdom, he was right there representing the kingdom in their presence or in their midst. But the Pharisees could not acknowledge that because they had no faith in him and were looking for a spectacular sign.

Matthew 4:17 confirms that God's kingdom is in heaven.

Luke 22:28, 30 Jesus promised his disciples that they would sit on thrones in the kingdom of God in heaven.

Matthew 20:20-23 Jesus Disciples were concerned about which position to sit beside Jesus in the Kingdom of God. Which would have made no sense if the kingdom was just something inside of them.

Matthew 23:34 shows that one has to be judged righteous by Jesus to inherit the kingdom.

Matthew 23:13 and Matthew 25:46 proves that not everyone can inherit the kingdom.

Kobojunkie:
Read Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 where you possibly learn that Heaven(Eternal Reward) and Hell(Eternal damnation) aren't until after Jesus Christ returns and judges all those who are in His flock... aka those who are born-again.

Matthew 25:31 to 46 simply explains that only the righteous would inherit God's kingdom and those who do not obey God would be destroyed.
So does this support the idea that the kingdom of God is on earth already or in people?

Kobojunkie:
is this possibly a comprehension problem or what?.

1. I suggest you open and read Luke 17 vs 20 - 21 before you continue. Cause what you keep insisting on does not make sense.

2. When Jesus Christ said, in Matthew 23 vs 8- 10, that He alone is Teacher, Master and Head over those who belong to Him, He was also addressing the Pharisees and Saducees, are we to ignore His Words there, and in many other places in the Gospels because His words were not spoken directly at His 12 disciples instead??

3.
■But the same Jesus Christ is written to have said that in the same Matthew that the violent had been taking the Kingdom by force since the time of John the Baptist, in reference to those who enter without accepting His teachings.
■ Jesus Christ is also recorded to have told the Pharisees that the prostitutes and tax collectors proceed before them into the Kingdom of God. ■So, surely when Jesus Christ said the Pharisees would not enter the Kingdom, He meant the Kingdom of Heaven
■ He also taught that one has to have righteousness greater than that of the Pharisees in order to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

So where is the location of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Inside those born again or in heaven? Where?

Kobojunkie:
1. I didn't claim! Instead, Jesus Christ said it is.

2. I don't know and I don't see why or how it matters as it doesn't change any of that which Jesus Christ said. What I know is that His teachings and commandments apply as far as all those who belong in the Kingdom of God.

It matters because you claim from luke 17: 20, 21 that Jesus meant that the kingdom of God is just an experience that one who is born again feels by the spirit. Whereas the people Jesus were referring to were not born again.
Infact Jesus said that the Pharisees would not enter into the kingdom in Matthew 23:13.
So how could the location of God's kingdom merely be in someone's heart.

2. I don't know and I don't see why or how it matters as it doesn't change any of that which Jesus Christ said. What I know is that His teachings and commandments apply as far as all those who belong in the Kingdom of God. [/quote]It matters because you claim from luke 17: 20, 21 that Jesus meant that the kingdom of God is just an experience that one who is born again feels by the spirit. Whereas the people Jesus were referring to were not born again.
Infact Jesus said that the Pharisees would not enter into the kingdom in Matthew 23:13.
So how could the location of God's kingdom merely be in someone's heart.

Kobojunkie:
1. Nope! It is one and the same experience. Recall the Kingdom of God arrived after Jesus Christ's blood died and was raised.

Where did the Kingdom arrive to and In what form?

Kobojunkie:
1. Nope! It is one and the same experience. Recall the Kingdom of God arrived after Jesus Christ's blood died and was raised.

2. What do you mean?

3. Inside of the Kingdom of God exists both Heaven(Eternal Reward) and Hell(Eternal damnation) - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 .

You claimed that the Kingdom of God is inside of those who are born again. The Pharisees In luke 17:20, 21, were they born again or part of Jesus Disciples for the kingdom to be inside them?

Kobojunkie:
In Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11, we read that even some of the Pharisees showed up to be baptized by John the Baptist, so it is completely right to assume all of the Pharisees could not have had the born-again experience. By the way, I believe it was only after the death of Jesus Christ that the experience was made real for all, including His disciples - Matthew 26 vs 24 - 30.

As for being born-again, understand also that access into the Kingdom of God is granted through either of the Broad gate which leads to destruction(Hell) or the Narrow gate which leads to True life(Heaven) at the end - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 30. What this means is that even those who will end up in eternal damnation(Hell) are all also born-again. The Kingdom of God - eternal life and new spirit exists in them all.

That said, Jesus Christ used the Pharisees to teach His followers a lot of things. So, do not get tied up on that which does not matter. Instead it is His teachings and commandments that are essential in it all, that which those who are of Him are called to obey.

Are you saying again that there is a difference between been 'born again' and 'born again experience'. On the other hand, It is clear from the context of luke 17: 20, 21 that the group of Pharisees there were not part of Jesus Disciples or even born again. Jesus told the Pharisees in Matthew 23:13 that they would not enter into the Kingdom of heaven. So how could the kingdom be inside of them according to luke 17:20, 21.

Kobojunkie:
The Kingdom of God arrived when Jesus Christ ratified the Constitution of the Kingdom of God on the cross - Matthew 26 vs 24 - 30. Citizenship for individuals in the Kingdom of God is obtained only through being born-again aka born of water and born of the spirit - John 3 vs 1 - 8 Those who become born-again gain entry into the kingdom of God — the Kingdom of God is inside and all around them - Luke 17 vs 20 - 21.

Ok talking about the kingdom itself being "inside" born again christians, in luke 17 vs 20, 21 Jesus told the Pharisees who were not born again that the kingdom was in their midst. What did Jesus mean? Did he mean that the kingdom was inside them too?

Kobojunkie:
Everyone in the Kingdom of God has to be born of spirit so it follows that the spirit has something to do with the Kingdom--- Jesus Christ said you must be born of spirit in order to become a part of of Kingdom of God--- doesn't it? Spirit may not be representative of the Kingdom of God but citizenship in it requires one have spirit.

So if the spirit itself is not the representative of the kingdom of God, How could the kingdom of God come 2000 years ago according to you? Or you could explain more of what exactly the kingdom is.

ritzyvic1:
1. Jesus never for once declared the mosaic law null and void by reason of his coming. He made it clear that he came to fulfill it. All those curses that the law prescribed for sinners was nailed to his cross. Instead of executing sinners, they now receive mercy because he has died in thier stead and his blood now serves as a propitiation.
That core essence of the law remains valid which is that men should fear and worship God alone. There's no dichotomy anywhere now. God's righteous principles are unchangeable His method of dealing with humans changed after the death of his son from strict justice to mercy.

His principles of godly leadership remains the same and his children are the best qualified based on that.

Lastly, take your time and read about the Armenian genocide. That's the consequence of naive Christians abandoning Christ's advice to occupy till he returns and leaving leadership positions for peoples that will wipe them out once they're in charge of all the armed forces

Did Jesus in Anyway got involved in the politics of his time thereby setting an example for Christians?

Kobojunkie:
Luke 17 vs 20 - 21. When a person becomes born-again, that new spirit that is born anew in one exists both inside and all around that person - John 3 vs 1 - 8.

Is the spirit itself the kingdom of God?

Kobojunkie:
1. huh?

2. Again...
■ The Old Covenant God made with Israel is what governs the relationship they had with Isreal in the Land of Canaan - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20.
■ Now, Jesus Christ is the New Covenant God promised to send to the House of Jacob, and this Covenant is a different and separate Law from that of the Old Law. So, when you ask of that which applies as far as those who belong to Jesus Christ, you cannot and should never confuse it with that which applies instead to those who are of God's Old Law - Matthew 11 vs 28 - 30 & Matthew 26 vs 24 - 30. Jesus Christ Himself taught you not to mix Old wine with New wine in reference to the agreements.

The separation that exists between the two Laws above means what applied to Joseph, Esther, Daniel, etc. does not apply to those who are followers of Jesus Christ. God, Himself set it up that way and taught that it should be kept that way too — there are two different Laws and two different Kingdoms involved here.

3. Wrong! The Kingdom of God arrived over 2000 years ago. Jesus Christ clearly informed you in His teachings that the Kingdom of God exists inside, and all around of those who are born-again. If you are born-again yet holding onto the world and its politics, it means you reject the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you are not born-again, it means you don't want Jesus Christ but want the world instead. So, which one are you?

I would need more clarification on your third point. You said the kingdom of God exists inside those that are born again. What does that mean? You can also WhatsApp me on 08167469103

ritzyvic1:
I'd appreciate if you would be more civil in your choice of words as person that professes knowledge of the scriptures.
But back to the point, I'll try to help you see reasons why you shouldn't continue holding to that misconception that'll potentially limit your ability to influence your generation positively.

Firstly, God of the old testament is still the God of new testament. Jesus clearly stated that he didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. So when God used righteous leaders like David, Joseph and the Esther we talked to fulfill his purpose in those days, it's very much in order then as it is today.

After God humbled Nebuchadnezzar, he confessed with his mouth that political power belongs to God and he is the one that gives it to whoever it pleases and his children is not excluded.

However, we as Christians recognise the fact that we are being prepared for the kingdom of God that is yet to come but doesn't mean that we have to deprive ourselves of the right exercise influence as leaders in our segment of time while we wait.

God's principles never change and his idea is that leadership positions should be occupied by godly men both now and then

Did Jesus in Anyway got involved in the politics of his time thereby setting an example for Christians?

ritzyvic1:
What exactly are we arguing over?
That Christians shouldn't participate in politics?

Your point is that based on this particular verses I posted below that we shouldn't, right?

But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles have absolute power and Lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them [tyrannizing them]. It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your [willing and humble] slave;
Matthew 20:25‭-‬27 AMP
https://bible.com/bible/1588/mat.20.25-27.AMP

From the part I bolded, you can see that he means that when we have any leadership position, we should use it to serve humanity just like he did. There's nothing confusing here.

You have an interesting point. I would like to ask some questions. You can chat me up on WhatsApp on 08167469103.