₦airaland Forum

.....just wondering if there are any recommendations for which theist system any of the pro-religion posters have for me ?
all of you seem to be implying I'm supposed to try to convince myself (dishonestly) that a faith I could never believe in,.... would be best to embrace seriously , and attempt to LIE to myself about . That sounds like a great idea. (LOL). actually many of the major religions have exceptions (for example the Catholics for those who "follow their conscience", as in their system, still also being "saved".

I will be happy to "convert". (LMAO) I am more than happy, to consider any statistically sound study, (and the studies referenced do not say ALL, and are actually not statistically sound, or representative. Should I consider Islam, and turn into a terrorist, or turn into a Christian and organize an Inquisition, and murder/kill people who don't agree with me ? Let me know . which is it, Jesus, Mohammed, or Baal ?

being in a science field , what I need to know is which faith system releases the most beta-endorphins.
please provide a graph and references.......

Endtimer:
Your main point here is that a singularity existed eternally before the Big Bang. My point is that there is no evidence of a singularity. Only of expansion.

That's not my main point bro . (It also was not your main point).

..my point was that something(s) existed at high temperature and density PRIOR to the expansion , (which IS what the Big Bang was), thus the Big Bang says nothing about a creation event , despite what Christian apologists try to make it look like . the Big Bang DOES NOT support theism. Lots of known events need no cause . What is the "cause" of a random quantum fluctuation(s) ? What is the cause of random radioactive decay ? Order arises spontaneously in this universe. No gods are needed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

triplechoice:
Sure you don't know the meaning of troll. Between the two of us who has been trolling?
You can't know that.

I repeat again, if you can't understand a report written in plain English, what exactly can you make sense of? Nothing..

I have explained before now,how religious practices can be beneficial . I don't believe in any God or gods, but well informed to know, unlike you ,that religious practices can offer salutary benefits to the human mind, and this has been demonstrated.

You are obviously one of those ignorant atheist who don't know that religious beliefs are not founded on religious text alone, hence you wonder why grown adults should believe in fairy tales.

You're starkly ignorant.

I understand it. I reject it . I don't care what you have cherry-picked to be beneficial... There is a reason 10 % of Americans are EX-CATHOLICS .
they hate the bullshit they were taught and enslaved them as children. Utilitarianism is a slippery slope.
There has been as much evil perpetrated by religion by those who claim THEIR religious truth is THE religious truth as anything else.
Society as "theocracy" is as dangerous an anything imaginable . we've seen the results of that crap.
We know what religion is and the effects of that bullshit are all around us ..
You're fooling no one. https://www.americamagazine.org/issue/ro...i8QAvD_BwE

It is the same mindset which produces the good effects for anyone who practice any belief system is what also produces the bad. It is explained there.

taking illegal drugs produces good effects also ...

It's not the belief system . It's not religion.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna40549161
It's being a part of a close-knit community, that meets regularly.

"It's not their spirituality, belief in heaven, or even the ritual act of praying or going to a house of worship that leads the pious to happiness. Rather, the study found, it's the close friends people gain through their religions that makes a difference.

The findings suggest that forging close bonds with people over mutually shared and meaningful interests might boost quality of life for anyone, religious or not. But there's something about being part of a congregation in particular that seems to build a sense of community and lead to fulfillment for many people."

do any of your studies have a proper control group ?

triplechoice:
Next time don't be lazy to read what has gone before.

If you had done that you wouldn't have responded the way you did.

You certainly can respond to anything here and even respond any how you like. Nobody is stopping you.
But when you quote me to take my comments out of the context in which they were made, then don't take offence or accuse me of evasion when corrected.

It's what I have done and would do again, if you repeat the same behavior.

Even the article I referenced, you also demonstrated that you didn't understand it.

The extract you took from it and posted is not very well .understood by you. Reasons were giving why those happen, but you were blind to them.

It is the same mindset which produces the good effects for anyone who practice any belief system is what also produces the bad. It is explained there.

If you can't make sense of something written in plain English, what exactly can you make sense of?

Here below.

.... says the troll who fails to explain how "good effects" from false belief systems are actually beneficial.

triplechoice:
You just jumped midway into my conversation with another person to interpret everything I have presented based on what you think and not what I have intended them for.

I am not asking any one to believe in a God ,deceive themselves, or practice any religion simply because of what they may or not benefit from it.

The person I am conversing with, I believe ,should understand me better than you.

Please take a back sit for now and don't take my assertions out of the context in which they were made.

if I need any advice from the likes of you..., I'll be sure and ask.
what you intend is perfectly obvious.
Nice try at evasion though. This is a public forum . I'll comment on whatever I decide to comment on, including your rubbish.

Endtimer:
I was saving my answers for the better informed atheists but I’ll take a stab at your falsehoods. The big bang is the event before which there are no events. It is allegedly the explosive expansion of space from a singularity (which you are claiming is uncreated, I’ll remind you of that soon enough). You also mentioned the multiverse which means your knowledge of physics is influenced by comic books. I’d advise you to visit a library where you’ll probably learn to trying to duck causation by claiming that there is a larger multiverse is simply geography. Any theist worth his salt would change the discussion to be about this multiverse (actually still called a universe as the term multiverse is meaningless).

After the Big Bang, space-time began to exist. It is a contradiction in terms to say something happened before the Big Bang as there was no time before it. The singularity you posited as constantly existing is scientifically unsupported. The cosmic microwave background only supports that the universe is expanding outwards. We intuitively assume that it must have come from a hypothetical singularity based on common logic. The question as to what caused this expansion and the creation of the universe at the Big Bang is what is relevant. The singularity is a common myth and your assertion that it existed eternally before the Big Bang is as unsupported as the singularity itself.

I’ll conclude that theists didn’t hi-jack the Big Bang. It was conceived by George Lemaitre, a catholic priest.

..and you would be wrong and you were told why you were wrong, and it went over your head...
You were given the definition and you cannot answer "what was at high temperature and density that banged ?". Nothing changed. Energy was preserved... nothing was "caused". The concept of the Big Bang Theory has changed (as all science does) since it was conceived of. A lot of Catholics opposed it at the time.
Obviously you know nothing about Physics and the history of physics . you don't know anything about whether there were other events . All you know about is 5 % of this universe. That's hardly enough to make any conclusions from. So best you take another stab. Roger Penrose, (Hawking's friend) wrote a book called "Cycles of Time". He contradicts you. You should learn to read books . The Big Bang Theory is about the EXPANSIONARY phase of the universe.... It's not about a "creation" phase. Yes theists, specifically Fundamentalist Christians , hijacked the theory to say what it does not.....
"Around 13.7 billion years ago, everything in the entire universe was condensed in an infinitesimally small singularity, a point of infinite denseness and heat. Suddenly, an explosive expansion began, ballooning our universe outwards faster than the speed of light". See that. There was a "point" that banged . It says nothing about a "point" being created..

Even granting that there was a "creation" event, (which I don't grant), ... it says nothing about your "cause" (which you just contradicted yourself about by saying there no "time" before) ... it's actually space-time, and clearly there was a "progression" (space-time) from the "tiny dot" to an expanding universe, and you know nothing about or when space-time began to "fall out" of the properties of the early universe. You also know nothing of the properties which were extant in any extra-universe state in which your god must have existed, and it's requirements for a cause.... typical theist assumption error . All you know is how things work in a very small subsection of this universe, and 95 % of this universe is unknown, (Dark Energy and Dark Matter) .... you really should go get a science education.

here's one of the spectacular failures of your proposed bullshit. Dinesh D'Souza used to debate about the Utilitarian nature of Christianity.
Until he didn't. LOL. https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-off...ance-fraud

triplechoice:
.
Anybody, no matter their belief or non belief can enjoy better health outcomes.. The key is trust and believe in whatever you do or is being done to you to improve your health.

There's is power in belief, and it's why placebos can be effective.

The belief alone that a higher power is intervening in one's health condition through prayer or meditation can trigger certain physiological responses within the human body that can result in healing or make one heal faster while undergoing treatment in the hands of a medical health practitioner.

Great. So you're proposing that people who actually don't believe *say* they do, to obtain a result ? LOL
there are studies that show people do worse when they think people are praying for them.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...ayed%20for.

This works not because the object of belief is real, but the belief that it is. The human mind doesn't know the difference between what is real and not real. If it is made to accept that something is real, it would use that to create effect. That's how powerful the mind is.

Un huh.... you're saying the mind is powerful , so we should lie to ourselves to obtain an outcome. I'm sorry but that is utterly stupid and dishonest .

Another thing, is that religious people can find strong social support in the various groups they belong to through regular attendance and active participation in group activity

Everyone has their own social groups . Your unsupported assumptions are wrong , and again....., you're proposing it's better to be dishonest, as you claim it produces a better outcome. GREAT.... So here we have somebody who proposes we tell ourselves things we don't believe because it produces a better outcome .
No matter what the studies show , this is ridiculous in the extreme,... and basically proves that you promote dishonesty for the sake of outcome,... based on nothing ,.... and based on concepts you attempt to justify secondary to the outcomes, not the reality. I doubt I've ever read such utter rubbish.

Most atheist are not joiners. They like being alone. So even when the opportunity is provided ( humanist groups ) for them to bound with others they are not too keen to take advantage of it. They hardly get involved.

Prove it. Unsupported assertion.
Even if true, think about it . You want to change their personality type ?
You want to FORCE them to join religious groups, even though they might hate it ?
THAT's a great idea..... Not!
Do you have data to support this ? What about religious people who prefer to be alone ?
You going to force them to change also ?

"Negative Aspects of Religious Involvement" Along with the presumed benefits of religious involvement for health, religion may also be associated with negative outcomes, such as poorer mental and physical health status, negative coping behaviors, and inappropriate use of health services."
https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10...%2C%20106).

Endtimer:
If you need explanations as to how the Big Bang and evolution supports theism, I’ll tell you that it’s because they suspiciously involve an intelligent first cause. I’ll explain further if you require it.

don't bother. It's long ago debunked.
The Big Bang says nothing about a first cause.
Theism hijacked the theory and dishonestly rejiggers it .

The Big Bang not only says nothing about a First Cause , it does not need one.
"The Big Bang event is a physical theory that describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of high density and temperature."
The Big Bang says nothing about "creation" or causation . it says the universe went from a state of high energy and density to an expanded state.
"Nothing: is not at high energy and density. "Something" was already there in a high energy and high temperature state . The theory says nothing about how that "something" got into a high energy and high temperature state. The Big Bang Theory does nothing to support theism...... Nothing..... Ignorant Christians who actually know nothing about the theory have hijacked it and claim it says something about a cause . It says nothing and assumes nothing about a cause..... it also implies nothing about an "ultimate" cause.
a real god could have made universe makers , or set them to make themselves , on any level of multiverses. There is no justification to think or assume that the Big Bang says anything about causation .. AT ALL.

your First Cause argument is false... you know nothing about the conditions in which the Big Bang happened,.... and your assumption that they were in any way similar to what we observe in this universe , is not justified. Until you know about the conditions in which this universe began, (if it ever did, and was not as Penrose... .. Hawking's friend) postulates just a series of bangs and re-bangs, you can say nothing about the need for "first cause", (as Sean Carroll demonstrated to WLC in their debate, and went unanswered).
there are many logics,.... and you have no justification for choosing one over the other ..., until you've TESTED them all, in their conditions, and have the data to prove the one you chose may be correct . Seeming to be "intuitive" to human brains is hardly a reason to pick one .

Endtimer:
I’ll address this one post as it makes a point. Your hero Nietzsche addresses this in Beyond Good and Evil. Your view of man is corrupted by millennia of good religion, leading you to falsely conclude that this is our natural state. You mention Europe; the continent responsible for spreading religion around the world. They have hardly had enough time to fully divorce themselves from religion. Look instead at the soviets and the Chinese; both prominent communists and vehemently opposed to theistic faith. They have collectively killed millions for abhorrent reasons. Today, however, we see religion rear its head in these places once more. Think of atheism as a break for religion during a boxing match. It isn’t our natural state. It isn’t healthy and we don’t stay there for long.

I should also add that I’m not here to proselytize. I don’t care what happens to you and I have no intention of converting you. I’m not idealistic enough to imagine I could change deeply held beliefs so easily. I’m here to test my ideas till I get bored or am convinced of their infallibility. You’re here for your own reasons. Do not get that confused.

I’ll address other serious concerns when I return.

I really don't need any sermons from someone who can support NOTHING they claim.... At All.
Jesus doesn't like liars... Lying for Jesus is still lying . I could care less what you are testing.
It's hilarious you quote Nietzsche. and LIE that he's a hero in any way in my case. But I do see your level here.
Do you always LIE in this manner ?
Are we to believe YOU are a religionist ? If so you're a very very poor representative.

"The most celebrated evil-skeptic, nineteenth century German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, also argues that the concept of evil should be abandoned because it is dangerous. But his reasons for thinking that the concept of evil is dangerous are different from those discussed above. Nietzsche believes that the concept of evil is dangerous because it has a negative effect on human potential and vitality by promoting the weak in spirit and suppressing the strong. In On the Genealogy of Morality: A Polemic, Nietzsche argues that the concept of evil arose from the negative emotions of envy, hatred, and resentment (he uses the French term ressentiment to capture an attitude that combines these elements). He contends that the powerless and weak created the concept of evil to take revenge against their oppressors. Nietzsche believes that the concepts of good and evil contribute to an unhealthy view of life which judges relief from suffering as more valuable than creative self-expression and accomplishment. For this reason Nietzsche believes that we should seek to move beyond judgements of good and evil (Nietzsche 1886 and 1887)." - He obviously never lost a 3 year old to brain cancer . What a crock of shit. This is the answer to NOTHING.... anyone who proposes it is seriously delusional.

Endtimer:
- Yes, increased unbelief is correlated with decreased rates of personal fulfillment. We are all aware that the west is experiencing reduced religious involvement. Cursory internet searches will furnish you with associated data on decreased personal happiness. Your question is therefore pointless. Whether it is directly caused by or just happens to coincide with is beside the point.

Wrong . your unsupported assertions are what are meaningless... you have no clue how many people are or are not happy, (your assumption that religion makes people happy and live better lives is what is known as Utilitarianism ). You have no data and you have not justifies the Utilitarian model. Fail.

- Your point about finding your own purpose is subjective and ultimately inconsequential. The purpose you pick for yourself only has no actual value. You might as well decide to become a superhero tomorrow. The value is subjective and not ultimate. On theism, it is believed that ultimate value can only be given if a thing has a purpose for which it is created. On atheism life is the result of mindless chance irrespective of the illusion of purpose with which you preoccupy yourself. Such a life has no ultimate value; only one that you make up as you go.

Wrong again . There is no objective purpose .... everyone has their own tastes and motives . You have no evidence for this assertion. "It is believed" .... really ? By whom. Support your shit with references or STFU. Is this you first debate ? Are you a Freshman at Biola who was relwased from your first class, sprung on those evil atheists ? LOL

Further, this means that the atheist has no qualms against suicide. Life is random and valueless.

Wrong. This is your first debate isn't it ? You really know nothing about Ethics do you ?

Lastly, religion does provide the only consistent basis for society. That is to say, religious societies operate based on what coheres with reality whereas atheist societies depend on consensus. They decide what is reality and act as though this delusion is correct. This is exceedingly clear when it comes to morality and legislation which are inextricable.

I agree totally . ...kill those babies and stone those adolescents.

"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: hen shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." Deuteronomy 21:18-25

"Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." 1 Samuel 15:3

LMAO

Endtimer:
I should note that, as this is your space, it is to be expected that I’ll receive lots of feedback. I anticipate that this may be overwhelming and I’ll focus on the answers I deem most important such as those from the writer of the op and any other well argued posts. I can only respond to the properly structured arguments as I have limited time to spend on this.

Don't worry about it sweetie... you got nothing we haven't heard a million times before....

Endtimer:
Unfortunately you’ve missed the point entirely. It’s not necessarily going to be crimes as extreme as rape, but people will want to know why they should obey certain humanist principles with time. I’m not talking about you and me. I’m talking about one rule breaker who isn’t content with pretending like there is order where there isn’t.

Also your picture is quite meaningless. It fails to address the point which is that people have no reason to behave the way they do in this religious society organized based on hundreds or thousands of years of rigid morality. Atheists seem to think that the effects of long term religious prosperity are human nature; something covered in Beyond Good and Evil. It doesn’t matter what I will do if religion disappears. It matters that after a few hundred years people will be so different from the people we see today that my hypothesis will be proven correct. Anarchy and religion will follow.

First you said "people" then you changed "people" to "one rule breaker. How do you know about the one rule breaker ?
Let's see the study and the data ? Oh wait, you have no data, and no study. You made it all up. Your assertions about what happens in the absence of religion are already proven false. In Northern Europe, in countries with less and less religion, crime and evil are no worse than they were under religion.
You don't scare me. You think you can scare people into religion ? LOL.

Endtimer:
You ask an impossible question and plead that we ignore its impossibility for the sake of argument. I’m curious as to how science could disprove God. Contrary to common atheist folklore, science has spent the last century bringing us closer to belief in the supernatural.

Totally false.
I sure hope you're not speaking of the Big Bang Theory, and how that theory was hijacked by Christian apologists, and MISREPRESENTED
as supporting Christian beliefs. If not what are you talking about ? The other tings that come to mind are Relativity and Uncertainty. They in no way support religionists, and in fact they do support the concept that ultimate reality is not what it appears on first look to be, and is NOT what appears to human minds to be "intuitively logical".

efficiencie:
If there is no God then what is the basis of morality? How do you define something good or evil? What makes stealing wrong in every culture? Can you answer that objectively without recourse to God or anything supernatural? If there is no God then what is the origin of order and regularity? If there is no God then all life must be random. Order cannot just bring itself into existence. Order requires intelligence. Just as you can never attribute a book to random events. So what is the origin of order? What is the origin of order in the cosmos and in physical reality? If there is no God where did all of existence come from? Where did matter, space and time originate from? If you say they came from nothing then please define "nothing"?

The last question could easily take you forever to answer in a logically coherent manner. Only a fool assumes there is no God. The real question is "who is God and how can He or She or It be reached?"

yeah... why don't you explain your morality to us, huh?

Deuteronomy 7


King James Version


7 When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2 And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them

SlayerofSatan:
Here's my question. Where do atheists get their morality from?

..certainly not from your fücking "god," man .

11 . although you are new at golf.., you have just hit a beautiful 200yard drive
and your ball has landed on a blade of grass near the cup at Hole 3. the green contains ten million blades of grass . the odds of your ball landing on that blade of grass are 10,000,000 to one against, too improbable to have happened by mere chance . What is the explanation

a. the wind guided it
b. your muscles guided it
c. there is no need for an explanation
d. you consciously designed your shot to land on that particular blade


12. which of the following is most likely to be true , and why ?

a. Romulus was the son of God...., born to a mortal human virgin
b. Dionysus turned water into wine
c. Apollonius of Tyana raised a girl from the dead.
d. Jesus Christ was the son of God , born to a mortal virgin, turned water into wine , and raised a man from the dead


13. conceding that torture is permissible under certain conditions....., which of the following would be the best justification ?

a. your prisoner is the only one who knows the date and time of an assassination attempt on the Pope
b. your prisoner is the only one who knows where a nuclear device has been planted in Washington dc
c. your prisoner is the only one who knows where a vial of nerve gas has been placed in the London water supply system
d. your prisoner has announced that the earth revolves around the sun


14. we know that Christianity is true because the Gospel writers, inspired by God who can make no error.... recorded the founding events.... for example , on the first Easter morning , the visitors to the tomb were greeted by which of the following:

a. a young man (Mark 16:5)
b. no, no, it was no man, it was an angel (Matthew 28:2-5)
c. you're both wrong , it was two men (Luke 24:4)
d. damn it, there was nobody there ! (John 20 :1-2)


15. according to inerrant Scripture , the Savior prayed alone in the garden while the three disciples who accompanied him had fallen asleep . how did the gospel writer know the words of that prayer ?

a. Jesus left them written down under a rock
b. they were recorded on a primitive taping device
c. the gospel writer was psychic
d. the three disciples were later hypnotized and asked to recall the prayer


16. according to at least one sainted church father,.. one of the pleasures of the saved will be to behold the agony of the damned . what would be the best time of day in heaven for a mother to behold the agony of her only son...

a. early in the morning before it gets too crowded
b. mid day when she can compare notes and share the celebration with other mothers
c. late at night when she can enjoy the flames in starker contrast


17. in the Judeo-Christian tradition , we always look to the Bible as a guide .. in this example , your teenage son has returned home from the prom intoxicated . The Bible's instruction is:

a. sit him down for a heart to heart talk
b. enroll him in AA
c. take away his driving privilege for one month
d. smash his head in with rocks..

18. in this example , your son-in-law, returned from his honeymoon , has just told you he suspects your daughter was not a virgin on their wedding night... wishing to abide by God' s holy rules as laid out in the Bible..., you should:

a. ask him if he was a virgin before you do anything
b. advise him to forgive her
c.talk to your daughter
d. go find those rocks !!!


19. you are eating lunch at a crowded fast food restaurant , occupied mostly by children , when suddenly a gunman bursts in , screams "..do not question or test me!," .....and sprays the room with bullets. Ten people are killed instantly, many more grievously wounded , but somehow you escape unharmed. His ammunition expended , the gunman collapses to the floor . what should you do ?

a. call the police and wait for them to arrive
b. call the police and leave
c. risk death by asking the gunman why he did it, even though he told you not to
d. fall on your knees and give thanks and praise to the gunman for sparing your life


20. why did God show his backside to Moses ,like as described in Holy Scripture, Ex.33:23?

a. he invented everything , and this was simply the first mooning
b. he was really ticked off when Moses dropped the tablets...
c. he was piqued , having just discovered his almighty powers were useless against chariots of iron (Judges 1:19)
d. Moses was too serious and needed to lighten up a little


21. Jesus was God , and God knows all things.., including all the medical knowledge that will ever be known...why did Jesus blame demons for the case of epilepsy he cured ?

a. he was suffering from a temporary case of "brain freeze"
b. the Aramaic word for "demon" is the same as the word for "cranial malfunction"
c. Neurology was not his specialty
d. in first-century Palestine , demons really did cause epilepsy . this affliction only began to be caused by anomalous electrochemical brain activity after about 1850 a.d.


22. this morning's paper carries a story about a suburban father who became so enraged with his disobedient children that he carried them both to the backyard pool where he drowned them, along with their puppy,..... their kitten,... and their hamster . how should this father be treated ?

a. he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law
b. he should be banished from the town
c. h should be lynched to save the taxpayers money
d. the townspeople should gather together to sing hymns of praise to him


23. this morning I started my day by insulting my mother in public, then punched out my father, my brother, and my sister ..then I gathered up all my clothes, sold them to a second-hand store, and with the proceeds bought a used Uzi and 50 rounds of ammunition. Next.... , I went down to the animal shelter and injected all the dogs with a drug that caused them to go insane and dive into the nearby canal where they all drowned . by this time I was hungry , so I went over to my neighbor's apple orchard and burned it down , because I wanted an orange and there weren't any. On the way home , I stopped at the local steel mill to discuss my philosophy of life with some of the guys . they laughed at me and said to stow it , so I tossed them all into the blast furnace. that night I discovered my son looking at a copy of Playboy. concerned for his future welfare , I cut off his right hand. What historical character did my activities today most resemble ?

a. Genghis Khan
b. Charles Manson
c. Adolph Hitler
d. Jesus Christ


24. down through the ages, who has been most responsible for the medical discoveries that have relieved untold amounts of suffering and pain...., and extended the length of that most sacred of creations, human life ?

a. Medical doctors
b. Research biologists
c. Chemists
d. The Catholic Church


25. a great sadness has come into your life which you feel you cannot bear.... a friend informs you of a free counseling service which has never failed to aid and comfort many others...you call the counselor , the phone rings and rings with no answer , you finally hang up ...what is the most likely explanation ?

a. the counselor is sitting by the phone but not answering in order to test your faith in him
b. the counselor always stands ready to hear your pleas for help, but sometimes the answer is "no"
c. the counselor will not answer because he wants you to profit by the spiritual strength that only comes through suffering..
d. the counselor is not home



ESSAY QUESTION

while it is true that there have been and still are many different gods and many different religions , they are really just the various names by which various cultures approach the same God . Explain how and why each of the following is the same God:

Quetzalcoatl, who wants you to skin a young virgin alive, then put on the skin and dance....
Shiva, who wants you to pray over his peniss ,
Allah , who wants you to fly airliners into buildings ,
Catholic God who speaks directly through the Pope ,..
Baptist God..who most definitely does not..
Jesus ,who wants you to castrate yourself to ensure arrival in heaven...
Jehovah , who any day now... is going to kill everyone on the earth except for his Witnesses...

here's a religious test.... Hope you all studied hard...

1. which of the following is the most compelling evidence for the existence of an intelligent and loving Designer ?

a. a Caribbean sunset
b. the screams of a baby seal as it is torn apart by a shark
c. the first time your perfect new baby smiles at you
d. the speed of the Ebola virus converting an African child's organs into liquid..


2.. a deeply devout Catholic couple has just returned from their fiftieth anniversary celebration , when suddenly the husband falls to the ground, clutching his chest. What is the most productive action for the wife to take ?

a. call 911
b. put him in the car and race to the hospital herself
c. administer CPR
d. fall on her knees and pray to the Lord to spare his life


3. You are a product tester and frequently bring your work home . Yesterday, while dressed in a flame resistant suit (up to 3,000 degrees) and carrying the latest model fire extinguisher , you discover your neighbor's house is on fire . As the flames quickly spread, you stand and watch your neighbor's new baby burn to death. .which of the following best describes your behavior?

a. All-powerful
b. All-knowing
c. All-loving
d. Mysterious


4. one day while jogging in the park, you see a maniac with a butcher knife about to attack a six-year old girl . Which would be the most morally proper action to take?

a. grab the nearest rock and beat off the attacker
b. call the police on your cell phone
c. shout "POLICE!" and run toward the attacker in a threatening manner
d. calmly walk away, because God works in mysterious ways, and what appears "evil" to our finite human mind , may in fact be part of a vaster plan in God's infinite mind , so it's best not to interfere...


5. you are the incarnated Son of the all-powerful and all-loving Creator of the universe . what would be a good way to demonstrate your compassion and power?

a. cure cancer forever
b. cause all the earth's deserts to bloom with food crops
c. unite the world with a common language and an end to poverty
d. kill a fig tree, conjure up a jug of wine and follow it up by walking on water


6. since we can never "know" whether or not a God exists .... it is fundamentally a matter of "faith"... it's best to be a believer since you have nothing to lose, but everything to lose if your disbelief is incorrect . Keeping in mind that the fate of your soul depends on the right choice, in which God should you place your belief? for extra credit...., include a brief essay justifying your choice, along with the reasons why you reject the other three...

a. Zeus
b. Quetzalcoatl
c. Vishnu
d. The Holy Trinity*

(*note: Choice D assumes you were born around 400 ad. or later, after the invention of the Trinity)


7. you are the Creator of the universe . your chosen people are a tribe of nomadic herdsmen , presently in bondage on one of the millions of your planets . Their ruler is being quite obstinate. Keeping in mind that you possess not only infinite power but also infinite love , your best course of action would be to:

a. cause the ruler to drop dead of a heart attack
b. cause the ruler to fall off a cliff
c. visit the ruler in a dream and persuade him to let your people go
d. slaughter a great number of innocent babies who had nothing to do with the ruler's policies


8. you are a Starfleet Federation explorer in the process of cataloging two newly discovered planets . The majority of the inhabitants of each planet believe in a deity..., but they are two different deities. Deity "X" is said to be not only all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing, but the designer of a marvelously complex and ordered world . Deity "Y" is said to be indifferent , absent, unconcerned with the affairs of his planet, and some even say evil...... Which god rules over which planet....?

PLANET A: has apparently achieved a state of advanced benign equilibrium in which there are no viruses or diseases , and only a very small number of natural disasters, which, when they do strike., always eliminate only the sinful and evil . The inhabitants, both plant and animal, have learned to maintain their existence through photosynthesis , and thus do not have to kill and eat each other in order to survive.. There are no "birth defects;" every inhabitant comes into existence perfectly formed and equipped for a long and productive life.
Deity X_____
Deity Y_____

PLANET B: adorned with many examples of beauty and order , it is also constantly beset by hurricanes, earthquakes,, tsunamis, floods, volcanoes, lightning bolts, viruses, disfiguring diseases, parasites, leeches , flies, crop destroying pests and many other phenomena which afflict both the innocent and the evil.. Every life form on the planet can only sustain its existence through the destruction and consumption of other life forms. some of the inhabitants are born with a crippling condition called a "birth defect",.... which condemns them to living extremely limited , short or painful lives.
Deity X_____
Deity Y_____


9. what is the number of children born without arms or legs that have been miraculously restored by a visit to the shrine at Lourdes, France ?

a. too many to count
b. over 1,000
c. several dozen
d.zero, but only because their faith was not strong enough


10. as we all know, there is only one true religion ... what is the one true religion in each of the following circumstances ?

a. you are born in Karnak in 3000 b.c .
b. you are born in Bombay in 300 b.c.
c. you are born in Baghdad in 900 a.d
d. you are born in Mexico City in 1956 a.d.

LilMissFavvy:
Do you intend to join Islam? If yes, then you are not wise, look around the world and see the pain, war, and deaths that Islam has caused.

this comment of yours is very very funny i can't stop laughing
i'm not sure there was even a hint in the OP that the person was considering Islam. If anything,.... sounded more like Islam would just be a trade-in on what the OP is currently already doubting.

Do you want to become an atheist? Truth is that a good percentage of atheists are into one fraternity or the other? Which power is behind fraternities, is it not the devil?

i am an atheist .... and I don't know of any such "fraternities." .There are some atheist groups just like there are Christian groups . I don't belong to any of them, but I would like to ask .... does the fact that any particular person might like to get together with people of like-mind to socialize mean that some greater evil is at work? if so...... then I know some pretty "evil" Christians who are getting together EVERY SUNDAY!!!! Can you imagine?!?!

I had a friend who claimed to be an atheist, I later realized he is a member of a cult.

what was the basis of the "cult," if you don't mind me asking?.... as in, what was the "hook" by which people were being drawn in or wanted to stick around?
As a skeptic myself, any group proposing to hold the keys to some greater "truth" already has a serious down-vote from me.
and most of the atheists I know are pretty hearty skeptics. Not all,... but better than half for sure.

Leave the Catholic Church and join a good ministry. Yes God exists, most believers who keep talking about God aren't doing so because they are stupid, rather they continue in the Christian race because they have experienced the power/presence of God.

it's more likely they don't know any better ,... and they find themselves surrounded by mostly Christians in their neighborhoods. ..so if they want to join some group for social inclusion that is deemed "normal" by those around them, there sits an obvious choice above others. Hopefully that changes. "God" willing, eh?

LilMissFavvy:
Do you intend to join Islam? If yes, then you are not wise, look around the world and see the pain, war, and deaths that Islam has caused.

haha.. such a silly apologetic fear mongering tactic. You guys act like this internet forum is real life fear mongering missionary style... why dont you honestly seek some knowledge instead?

@jidejordan
welcome to the group of non-believers on here.
we don't bite, we don't eat babies , we live happy and fulfilled lives without god.
You can too

Bishopkingsley:
It is an adequate analogy

If you tell me that the wind can write a poem then I will believe you that an un intelligent thing can create the universe

The room is inversely proportional to the universe which means there must be an infinite invisible being who the universe is a room to....



Indulge me teach me tell me how the universe formed

i cannot tell you how the Universe was formed,.. but we have an understanding of how physical laws (such as Conservative of Mass and Energy) play a part in it, and these can function without a creator.

i can also tell you that the analogy, while poetic and inspiring, doea not function as a direct comparison....

1. For the poem, we have the enclosed room, the pen, paper, ink, and the rabbi left alone. we also know that poem are written by humans using these tools.

2. For the Universe, we do not have evidence that there is a god, nor are we certain that the Universe requires one. We do not have universe-making tools.

The only link is our suspicion that artifacts require an artificer . But we only know this for certain for human or animal artifacts.... We do not know that the Universe itself is an artifact.

Bishopkingsley:
The analogy is exactly the same thing

God created the universe you are the king

You found the earth which is the kings poem
You have two choices ask who wrote the poem which mean who created the earth

And understand some one must have created it rather than thinking it just appeared from nowhere

but, that is a problematic analogy.

1. I know poems are written by humans,.. and in this case, the human, ink, pen, and parchment are all together in the same room.
2. I do not know if Universes are created by a god , and there are mechanistic explanations that partially explain how the Universe formed with no god that can be detected (so far) .

therefore..., it is not an adequate analogy.

Bishopkingsley:
To prove gravity exists, the effects are seen. Similarly, God's effect on and in the world can be seen.
The things God created proved his existence the earth the universe

Let look at this story


A parable says that a king asked a rabbi for proof of God. When the king was gone, the rabbi wrote a lovely poem on a paper and left. When the king returned, he asked the rabbi about the beautiful poem.
The rabbi denied writing it. The king was furious saying the ink was not even dry and no one else was in the room. The rabbi said, it’s the same with the world. It’s not possible that it simply invented itself or came into existence without God.

were the king a philosopher he would have stated that he knows the mechanisms of writing.. and has the empirical evidence to show that it could not have written itself, thus, it must have been the rabbi .

but , absent of the same evidence that the Universe requires a "creator" and understanding some of the mechanisms involved that need no creator, the analogy is thus flawed.

so you are pantheistic, since you are defining God as energy and matter that cannot be created or destroyed.. which means all matter and energy?