geoworldedu: Do you mean that your god is not all-knowing? Christians can be so funny eeh
The fake invented christain god like to bang another man's virgin wife, when the fake christian god decided to bang Mary another man's wife and even told the man not to touch his wife for the nine months, while their fake invented christian god was banging Mary for the nine months
You mean the same Roman empire invented jesus christ that never once condemned the Romans for occupying the land of Isreal and his own town but always causing his own people.
The truth is that the Roman empire invented jesus christ to make the Jews who were like Hamas today to become peaceful about 2000 years ago
Maize247: Obi will eventually win at the Supreme Court as both Tinubu and Atiku will be disqualified. Obidensess should keep hope alive. The real owner of the results Atiku used should be located death or alive. Atiku own is even worse
if President Tinubu is disqualified then the vice president will take over
You think the likes of FxMasterz do not know jesus christ is a scam? But that's how they earn their living and control some ladies and some men. So better you don't go and meet any of them, but continue to expose them here in public where the whole world can see and learn.
You have not yet responded to this: And where is your evidence that 150 years later the Severus scroll restored and given to the Jewish community in AD 220, 150 years after which will be about the third generation of the Jews from AD 70, you now rely on as the Old Testament, is the original scroll taken from the Temple in AD 70 ?
SIRTee15: Why should I be asking questions about something that never happened. All your questions are claims, claims, claims. Bring evidence. Produce evidence that the Romans took the scrolls from the temple and kept them out of sight.
Don't ask me questions u can't produce evidence for.
As I said, u hiding behind a screen to make unsubstantiated claims. If u sure of your claims, let's do a live debate.
And where is your evidence that 150 years later the Severus scroll restored and given to the Jewish community in AD 220, 150 years after, you now rely on as the Old Testament, is the original scroll taken from the Temple in AD 70 ?
SIRTee15: Why should I be asking questions about something that never happened. All your questions are claims, claims, claims. Bring evidence. Produce evidence that the Romans took the scrolls from the temple and kept them out of sight.
Don't ask me questions u can't produce evidence for.
As I said, u hiding behind a screen to make unsubstantiated claims. If u sure of your claims, let's do a live debate.
Titus and Christianity Rabbi Moshe Ben-Chaim A close friend shared a gemara with me, Gittin 56b:
Vespasian took a prostitute with his hand, and entered the Holy of Holies with her. He then spread out a Torah scroll underneath him and committed a sin, i.e., engaged in sexual intercourse, on it.
Vespasian went back to Rome and sent Titus in his place. The Gemara cites a verse that was expounded as referring to Titus: “And he shall say, ‘Where is their God, their rock in whom they trusted?’” (Deut. 32:37). This is the wicked Titus, who insulted and blasphemed God on High. What did Titus do when he conquered the Temple? He took a prostitute with his hand, and entered the Holy of Holies with her. He then spread out a Torah scroll underneath him and committed a sin, i.e., engaged in sexual intercourse, on it. Afterward he took a sword and cut into the curtain separating between the Sanctuary and the Holy of Holies. And a miracle was performed and blood spurted forth. Seeing the blood, he mistakenly thought that he had killed God. Titus saw blood issuing forth from the curtain in God’s meeting place, the Temple, and he took it as a sign that he had succeeded in killing God Himself. As it is stated: “Your enemies roar in the midst of Your meeting place; they have set up their own signs for signs” (Psalms 74:4).
Titus profaned the Torah and also sought to kill God. Why did he profane the Torah scroll in this manner? And did blood truly spurt from the curtain, or is this an allegory?
Intercourse is the most lustful drive. Titus expressed his true opposition to God and His Torah: he sought unbridled instinctual gratification. His profaning the Torah scroll and his stabbing of the parochess curtain expressed his hate for God’s law and God, respectively. (The parochess sections-off the holiest cite, God’s “place.”)
My friend explained very well the parallel between Titus and Christianity, occurring in the same timeframe. “Killing God” is at Christianity’s core, as Jesus replaced (killed) God. The son killing the father is what Sigmund Freud referred to as the Oedipus Complex. Titus too—a devout Christian—thought he killed God; this was his intent in attacking the temple. Both Titus and Christianity share an infantile aggression against authority, reducing both to primitive attitudes deserving our disdain, not religious adherence and certainly not veneration.
You are the one being dishonest here. I posted this link https://graham-pemberton.medium.com/the-scandal-of-the-dead-sea-scrolls-e85eeb1153a6 before on "The Scandal of the Dead Sea Scrolls" as "Roman Catholic priests dominated work on the Scrolls. According to scholar Ahmed Osman, “the Ecole has close links with the Pontifical Biblical Commission, founded by the Vatican at the turn of the century."
You claimed that you cannot open the link as it's asking you to subscribe. It did not ask me to subscribe so I have posted quotes from the link which you have avoided as you cannot disprove them. We cannot rely on what has been published from the dead sea scroll as all we know about them is what we have been told so the whole thing is one sided. Which should now take us back to the original scrolls taken away from the Temple in Jerusalem.
The main questions you should be asking yourself now are:
1. Why did the Romans hide the original scrolls they took away from the Temple in Jerusalem and did not allow anyone to see them?
2. Why did the Romans take Josephus and some other Jewish priest away with them to the Palace in Rome?
3. What proof do you have that the Severus scroll restored and given to the Jewish community in AD 220, 150 years after, is the original scroll taken from the Temple in AD 70?
Another blow was struck soon afterwards. Having suffered the problems associated with the Nag Hammadi discovery, the Vatican hierarchy must, if you’ll pardon the expression, have been shitting themselves when the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered only two years later in the caves of Qumran. What more damaging material might be found in them?
Returning to the scandal of the Scrolls, not everything went according to the script. There was one potential whistle-blower on the original team who was not willing to cooperate with the official line. This was John Allegro, of whom Baigent/Leigh say: “Allegro’s material seems to have been rather more explosive than anyone at the time had anticipated, and he himself was something of a maverick. He had, certainly, no compunction about breaking the ‘consensus’ de Vaux was trying to establish and… was soon to be ousted from the team and replaced by John Strugnell” (p60–61). Ahmed Osman believes that the latter was also sacked, even though “failing health and emotional distress were cited as the reason for his dismissal”, having given an interview highly critical of Judaism, which he described as “a Christian heresy”¹. It’s worth noting that he had spent nearly 40 years — “virtually his entire working life” — studying the Dead Sea Scrolls. What had he found in them?
Allegro had been chosen because he was a brilliant scholar but, according to Baigent/Leigh, “he was the most spontaneous, the most independent-minded, the most resistant to suppression of material”, “uninhibited about rocking the boat”. He was also the only one on the team who was openly agnostic about religious matters, and therefore had no agenda that he wanted to stick to. He therefore “grew exasperated with the strained attempts to distance Christianity from the Scrolls and the Qumran community. He insisted on the obvious connection between the two, and suggested that the connection might be closer than anyone had hitherto believed — or, at any rate, dared to suppose” (p83–84). The Roman Catholic Church had been saying for hundreds of years that Jesus was a one-off incarnation of God on Earth. One can easily see why they would want to suppress any documents which suggested otherwise, that he might have been human, and belonging to a pre-existing tradition. (That is on the assumption that he existed at all — the Scrolls, as we now have them, make no direct reference to the Jesus of the Gospels.)
Returning to the theme of how dangerous the Scrolls were to Christian orthodoxy, in a letter to Strugnell, who was considering a career in the Church, Allegro wrote, advising him not to pursue this, since “by the time I’ve finished there won’t be any Church left for you to join”⁴.
Allegro also went on to write The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross⁵, where he “asserted that Jesus had never existed in historical reality, (but) was merely an image evoked in the psyche under the influence of an hallucinatory drug, psilocybin, the active ingredient in hallucinogenic mushrooms” (Baigent/ Leigh, p105). We can only assume that he came to this conclusion from his reading of the scrolls that he was working on.
As you can imagine, such a claim made him somewhat unpopular in academic and religious circles. It’s not something I agree with when put in those extreme terms, but the idea that early Christians took psychoactive mushrooms as a sacramental ritual is an interesting claim, which is highly relevant to an ongoing series of articles that I’m writing about the origins and history of Christianity, and the apostle Paul. That’s why I have drawn attention to the Dead Sea Scrolls scandal at this point. (If you’re interested in learning more about this, I highly recommend Baigent/Leigh’s book.)
SIRTee15: Stop being dishonest. This is also on the same link.
Take up the challenge, live debate on zoom or Microsoft. Stop whataboutism, that's what u doing here.
The Scrolls taken from the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70 were keep in the private chambers of the palace in Rome and no one was allowed to see them as the Romans knew it was the scrolls that was fueling the Jewish revolts and that was why they desployed all other copies they found. So why will the Romans give the same original scrolls back to the Jews?
More info for you on the dead sea scrolls
PUBLISHED MARCH 13, 2020 - National Geographic The Washington, D.C. museum of the Bible houses 16 purported Dead Sea Scroll fragments, including this piece of the Book of Genesis. A new scientific investigation funded by the Museum of the Bible has confirmed that all 16 fragments are modern forgeries.
But now, the Washington, D.C. museum has confirmed a bitter truth about the fragments’ authenticity. On Friday, independent researchers funded by the Museum of the Bible announced that all 16 of the museum’s Dead Sea Scroll fragments are modern forgeries that duped outside collectors, the museum’s founder, and some of the world’s leading biblical scholars. Officials unveiled the findings at an academic conference hosted by the museum. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/museum-of-the-bible-dead-sea-scrolls-forgeries
No true elect on nairaland will waste their time with an obstinate fellow like SIRTee15. Thank God for the internet, God is using it to set a lot of people from your invented jesus christ. And now they can worship God Almighty of the Jews directly without your invented jesus christ.
SIRTee15: I think we should just end it here. I will only continue if on a live debate.
I challenge u to a live debate either on zoom or Microsoft. If u sure of your claim, take up the challenge.
There's no point going on here with u, it's a waste of time. Small wonder most Christians here don't waste their time debating u guys. There's no point. Take it up on a live where there would be no hiding place for u.
U asked for scrolls taken away from the temple in 70AD by the romans, I gave u the Severus scrolls.
Before that, there existed the dead sea Scrolls which are even 250 yrs older than whatever the Romans took away.
So what exactly are u asking ?
Either take up the challenge of a live debate or we end it.
See my time with u as a great honour and a great investment. No Christian on nairaland will waste their time with an obstinate fellow like SIRTee15.
Finally, appreciate this debate, u will be lying if u claim u haven't learnt a lot in this debate and u know it. At least u will do away with some junks conspiracy claims u ve been ignorantly passing around. On my own side, I've learnt nothing from u. That's the truth.
I did not invite a simpleton like you to this thread, this thread is for great minds. You were the one that brought your junk mind to this thread and started your insults which I have been returning back to you.
Now you are making a threat which I will not tolerate from you. You are the one that came here to challenge this thread. I did not drag you here and if you have no reasonable response to give you should gracefully bow out of this thread.
1. If I ask you where is the original English Bible the Yoruba Bible was translated from, will you tell me to go and look in some Egyptian or Libyan translations written by legends.
2. I asked you a simple question: Where are the original Hebrew scrolls the Old Testament was written from and you have been beating about the bush since.
3. If Josephus did not help to write the invented new testament then why is the earlist historical record of the invented jesus christ first written in Josephus writings around AD 95.
4. Why did the Roman emporer give Josephus a flat in his palace in Rome from around AD 66/68.
5. I did provide links to the information I posted before so go back and check them and the one you said requires subscription does not ask me for such
6. Syria: in Maalula, fear for survival of Aramaic — AFP News
You have nothing to debunk as your Septuagint was a translation by legends.
These are the questions you cannot answer but you decided to run away with your junk mind:
1. Where are the original Hebrew scrolls Rome took away to Rome from the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70?
2. Aramaic is still spoken and written today so why did anyone not write about your invented jesus christ then.
3. Why did Josephus have to write a new Roman version of the Old Testament again in Greek, in AD 95 when they already had your Septuagint that was already written in Greek?
4. Why was your invented New Testament first written at the palace of the Emperor in Roman in Greek in AD 95?
5. Why are all the names of your invented jesus christ and his invented disciples all European names when Josephus mentioned Jewish and Samaritan names in his work
My condolence SIRTee15 as you run away with your junk mind as you have no more junk to spill out of your junk mind.
The internet has opened up all the invented stories that have messed up your junk mind.
Any junk book you write is dead on arrival as most people now are freeing their minds from the junks your mind is filled with.
A primary school kid in Europe now know that man walking on the moon from 1969 to 1972 is fake but you and adult in Nigeria stills believes it's true since your mind is open to any junk fed to it.
SIRTee15: Where is your evidence of Vatican covering dead sea scroll. I can't see anything. The link u sent requires subscription and I'm not paying to read nonsense.
What u ve been doing is claim claim claim. No evidence...none.
Claim- The new testament has only Hellenistic Jewish names. debunked....Joseph Zechariah and Saul names seen in both old and new testament.
Claim- The new testament was written by Josephus in the palace of Roman emperor. Debunked..... Didache existed as early as 70AD.
Claim- The old testament we have now was written by Josephus in the palace of the Roman emperor. Debunked... Septuagint existed b4 Josephus was born. The oldest copy we have has been dated 150 yrs b4 Josephus was born.
The old testament we have now is a forgery and not the original. Debunked....the dead sea scroll written 250 yrs b4 Josephus is very similar to the old testament scriptures we have now.
Claim- The dead sea Scrolls is being suppressed by vatican because they don't want the public to know the truth. Debunked....The dead sea scrolls is available to the public.
SIRTee15: Give up hackermann and acknowledge I'm too good. SIRTee15 is the next Roman empire invented New Testament to bite the dust. Condolence SIRTee15 . I think I need to write a book and share my knowledge with fellow Christians. We need to humiliate all these annoying anti bible bullies constituting nuisance on the internet.
This one is even a moon landing conspiracy theory wack. SIRTee15 problem is beyond redemption.
You lack knowledge that's why you accept any junk fed into your mind that is already full of junk without proper research and critically analysing them. To you onces some nutcracks of like mind like you have debunked an information then whatever junk those debunking it has fed into your mind is fine bacuase they are nutcracks like you.
Here are some more info for you on The Scandal of the Dead Sea Scrolls
Why will this not raise concerns about the dead seas scrolls when it was [Roman Catholic priests who dominated work on the Scrolls]
Source: https://graham-pemberton.medium.com/the-scandal-of-the-dead-sea-scrolls-e85eeb1153a6 Sep 3, 2020 "Another blow was struck soon afterwards. Having suffered the problems associated with the Nag Hammadi discovery, the Vatican hierarchy must, if you’ll pardon the expression, have been shitting themselves when the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered only two years later in the caves of Qumran. What more damaging material might be found in them?
On this occasion, however, they got lucky. Father Roland de Vaux, a practising Catholic and monk, was installed as head of a team of international scholars, and technical director for subsequent excavations. At the time of his appointment, he was the director of the Dominican-sponsored Ecole Biblique et Archéologique in Jerusalem, whose Roman Catholic priests dominated work on the Scrolls. According to scholar Ahmed Osman, “the Ecole has close links with the Pontifical Biblical Commission, founded by the Vatican at the turn of the century to protect ‘God’s words’ from ‘every rash opinion’ and to endeavour to ‘safeguard the authority of the scriptures and to promote their right interpretation’ ”¹."" "
Almost the whole world believed before that the moon landing from 1969 to 1972 of man walking on the moon. Now there have been conspiracy theories that man walking on the moon from 1969 to 1972 was a hoax. These conspiracy theories have now been debunked, but do these debunkings make man walking on the moon true to you from 1969 to 1972?
SIRTee15: Mr mindhacker, stop bringing ancient of days evidence to 2023 debates. Pls do more research.
See my own evidence on dead sea scroll.
SIRTee15: Dead sea scroll debonking is a figment of SIRTee15 own imagination and nutcracks of like minds with SIRTee15 .
SIRTee15 are way way behind in knowledge. Not relying on 1991 piece of info as evidence. The book deception has been published and thoroughly debunked by nutcracks like SIRTee15. You should be living in the museum.
SIRTee15: So how did I know that the Samaritan pentateuch is the true Torah if the dead sea scroll is being suppressed? The information came from the dead sea scroll my friend.
What's your level of education, if I may ask? As you don't know the meaning of a book being bublished in Europe and America.
"Is the Vatican Suppressing the Dead Sea Scrolls?" A book that will soon be available in the United States was recently published in England under the title The Dead Sea Scroll Deception by Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh (Jonathan Cape, 1991).1
The book’s thesis is that the Vatican is suppressing the Dead Sea Scrolls because they will undermine vital Christian doctrine.
The authors’ first bit of evidence is the unconscionable publication delays: Of over 500 texts found in Qumran Cave 4 beginning in 1952, only approximately 100 have been published after nearly 40 years.
SIRTee15: The biggest discovery of the dead sea scroll is that the Samaritan pentateuch is actually the true Torah not the Hebrew Torah compiled by Ezra. The holy mountain of the Lord is mount Gerizim.
The question you should ask yourself now is why has it taken 40 years to publish the first 100 texts out of 500 texts found in cave 4.
Now a book has been written, below are some of the excerpts.
"Is the Vatican Suppressing the Dead Sea Scrolls?" A book that will soon be available in the United States was recently published in England under the title The Dead Sea Scroll Deception by Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh (Jonathan Cape, 1991).1
The book’s thesis is that the Vatican is suppressing the Dead Sea Scrolls because they will undermine vital Christian doctrine.
The authors’ first bit of evidence is the unconscionable publication delays: Of over 500 texts found in Qumran Cave 4 beginning in 1952, only approximately 100 have been published after nearly 40 years.
SIRTee15: The biggest discovery of the dead sea scroll is that the Samaritan pentateuch is actually the true Torah not the Hebrew Torah compiled by Ezra. The holy mountain of the Lord is mount Gerizim.
The question you should ask yourself now is why has it taken 40 years to publish the first 100 texts out of 500 texts found in cave 4.
"Is the Vatican Suppressing the Dead Sea Scrolls?" A book that will soon be available in the United States was recently published in England under the title The Dead Sea Scroll Deception by Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh (Jonathan Cape, 1991).1
The book’s thesis is that the Vatican is suppressing the Dead Sea Scrolls because they will undermine vital Christian doctrine.
The authors’ first bit of evidence is the unconscionable publication delays: Of over 500 texts found in Qumran Cave 4 beginning in 1952, only approximately 100 have been published after nearly 40 years.
SIRTee15: There were Jews living outside Judea who had the tanakh when it fell. So u saying the Hebrew tanakh disappeared because jerusalem fell or the Romans took the scroll away makes sense.
Besides, u are yet to say anything about the dead sea Scrolls.
The question I have been asking you is were are the original Hebrew scrolls, who has them, why are they hidden away?
I have answered you before about the dead sea scrolls. Here is it again below:
Now a book has been written, below are some of the excerpts.
The question you should ask yourself now is why has it taken 40 years to publish the first 100 texts out of 500 texts found in cave 4.
"Is the Vatican Suppressing the Dead Sea Scrolls?" A book that will soon be available in the United States was recently published in England under the title The Dead Sea Scroll Deception by Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh (Jonathan Cape, 1991).1
The book’s thesis is that the Vatican is suppressing the Dead Sea Scrolls because they will undermine vital Christian doctrine.
The authors’ first bit of evidence is the unconscionable publication delays: Of over 500 texts found in Qumran Cave 4 beginning in 1952, only approximately 100 have been published after nearly 40 years.
The last paragraph of the first screenshot you posted says [that prior to the year 285 B.C that either the Septuagint in general or at least an important part of them had been deleted]. And apart from this where are the original Hebrew scrolls? So that we can be sure of what were in the original scrolls.
Go back and check all my posts, all I said about the version of the Old Testament we have today is the one written in the works of Josephus. The question I asked about the Old Testament is where are the Original Hebrew scrolls the Septuagint and the Old Testament we have today have been copied from. The Septuagint is unreliable as we don't have the Original Torah Scrolls.
"The name Septuagint (from the Latin septuaginta, “70”) was derived later from the legend that there were 72 translators, 6 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, who worked independently to translate the whole and ultimately produced identical versions. Another legend holds that the translators were sent to Alexandria by Eleazar, the chief priest at Jerusalem, at the request of Ptolemy II Philadelphus (285–246 bce), though its source, the Letter of Aristeas, is unreliable. Despite the tradition that it was perfectly translated, there are large differences in style and usage between the Septuagint’s translation of the Torah and its translations of the later books in the Old Testament. In the 3rd century ce Origen attempted to clear up copyists’ errors that had crept into the text of the Septuagint, which by then varied widely from copy to copy, and a number of other scholars consulted the Hebrew texts in order to make the Septuagint more accurate." https://www.britannica.com/topic/Septuagint
SIRTee15: So u have dropped the old testament claim. U now back on new testament.
To you, you believe that history is tales by moonlight. Shows you are very dumb.
The biafra war for example is true history because there were many soldiers that fought on both sides who can give accounts of what they saw and also there were many people who lived in the arrears where the war took place and can give accounts of what they saw. Now when historians today want to write about the biafra war they can reference eyewitness accounts of the events written down by the soldiers on both sides and also eyewitnesses account written down from different people who witnessed the event, they can go and visit different towns and villages to get information from people who saw the war and are still living today and then they can put these together to give a good historical account of the biafra war. So that anyone reading the events today or in the future will not doubt that the war took place. And any historian writing about it in future will be able to reference previous historians that have written about the war.
Compare this to your invented jesus christ. Where are the historical accounts of the soldiers, Roman written official accounts and Jewish written official's accounts, people spoken to in the different towns where your invented jesus christ did all his invented miracles and official written documents that Josephus made a reference to about your invented jesus christ.
You are very dumb to believe this invented story: "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, 9 those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; 10 as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."
SIRTee15: The only thing that made sense in your write up is your challenge for a live debate. If u ready let's do a zoom link. U avoiding too many questions for this to make sense.
When was the Septuagint compiled. B4 or after Josephus. What's the oldest manuscript of the Septuagint we have with us today. Even your friend brought here a fragment of the septuagint bible dated 1bce
That Joseph wrote about Jewish ancient history meant he wrote the old testament? Most knowledge we have today about Yoruba history was written by Samuel Johnson in his book 'history of the Yoruba'. Does that mean he invented the stories?
So if I write down the history of Nigeria. Does that mean I invented it.
Christianity Etc › Re: God Failed And Wasted His Son For Nothing by MindHacker9009(m): 2:04pm On Oct 12, 2023*. Modified: 3:43am On Oct 13, 2023
