₦airaland Forum

redsun:
Sanusi is cool.he looks like a man with morals but deep down as a nigerian elite looting could just come natural to him,they hardly see looting as immoral and soul dstroying.

frosbel:
Lol.  

I did not withdraw my case or stand down from my earlier positions.

I only said this is not the right section to trash this out, open a new thread in the religious section and we can take it from there ! lol.

But to be honest jayzee_guy,  I really want to hammer a point home, that I DO NOT HATE MUSLIMS. Many people find it difficult to disassociate debates from the individual.

We simple debated Islam just like many Muslims debate Christianity, as simple as ABC. I am 100% AWARE that many Muslims do not behave in the stereotyped Islamic fashion.

frosbel:
Again this was addressed to the Jews ONLY and no one else.

In those early days before the coming of Jesus Christ, anything that defiled the purpose of God in the camp of the Israelites was to be removed. They were a holy nation unto him and the worship of Baal and other such gods, practises learnt from surrounding nations was an ABOMINATION of the highest order.

However it is unlikely that this was an immediate punishment; there was ample provision for the confession and forgiveness of sins as narrated thoroughly in the book of Leviticus.

Still this was not applicable to other nations, or foreign groups of people, it was a disciplinary measure for God’s own people. If sin was left unchecked and perversion allowed to rule, the whole community would have been corrupted and the purpose of God defeated.

God hates sin so intensely, with a holy hatred and the only person who keeps his FULL WRATH from descending on mankind is Christ Jesus, due to the sacrifice of love for us all, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to knowledge of repentance.

So with all due respect your analogy holds no water. And if God is the same as ALLAH as you claim, why are you questioning his actions in the Old Testament since you agree with most of the bible, lol.

Summarily, these events occurred before the advent of Jesus Christ who when he came brought in the Law of LOVE. He is our role model since he is the express image of God's person and we are admonished biblically not to emulate the prophets or the kings but to emulate Jesus Christ.

If this is the case which indeed it is, then we are under no instruction to forcefully impose our belief systems and cultural values on other people, we are to preach the gospel in LOVE not with coercion , we are not to hate even our enemies but forgive them. This is too radical for some people; nevertheless it is the pattern for Christian living.

Finally can you please quote a verse of scripture where Jesus Christ whom we FOLLOW asked for violence in the performance of our duties? Just 1 verse not 2, 1. Please do it quickly, 

rabzy:
Am a Christian and when i saw the news, everyone of us said he is definitely Mad, and for me anyone who is ready to kill himself and a host of other innocent people in the name of of whatever religion is mad.

I think the crux of the matter here is that Frosbel have quoted a number of verses which can be said to promote or justify the killing of non-believers from the quran, but that there is nowhere in the Bible where Jesus (Christians:christ-like, Christ followers) ever advocated even the killing of enemies or non-believers. He famously said we should turn the other cheek and also pray for our enemies/persecutors. He told peter he who wields the sword will perish by the sword, and that he could call on a legion angel to fight for him, but he didn't. He even forgave those that killed him.

That is the Christian way, laid down by Jesus Christ, and evidences abound that early Christians even refused to take part in any war, either to defend themselves, the Jewish nation or the Roman Empire. In fact, it was one of the reasons why the Roman empire persecuted them.

So if any Christian or even the pope refuse to follow this noble example of Jesus, then he is not Christ-like, and has disowned the faith.

If the Quran/Mohammed forbids the killing of non-believers, then let us know with verses, then we would know that those fanatics got it wrong, then you should probably also explain those verses frosbel quoted, that apparently shows that the killing of non-believers is justified.

frosbel:
I will not do the job for you, if you are too mentally lazy to sift through this thread and extract the specific portions where I mentioned the quranic verses forget it.

I am not your houseboy

frosbel:
@mistakay, anyway my brother, I will leave you to continue rambling, avoiding my articles and questions.

Maybe some day you will face up to the truth cos the more blood you see daily shed by your friends, the more horrified you might become and change your mind.

For now if you do not have any evidence that our founder Jesus Christ himself asked us to go warring after other religions and peoples, bye bye.

If the glove does not fit you must aquit.

Hey bro the glove aint fitting, quit fighting. 


I do not hate you or Muslims for that matter, neither do I go around the Internet looking for arguements. I simply encounter falsehoods especially here on Nairaland and enjoy spreading some enlightenment.

So thanks for you wonderful contributions and peronal insults  , some were below the belt  , but I still consider you my bro.

frosbel:
Some more regurtitated gibberish.

You think I am one of the FOOLs that is scared to proclaim truths because of popularity . I will state the truth , like it or not, documented in your own texts which you are either ignorant of, or cannot explain out of dread of the horrors contained therein.

It is a historical fact that those who speak the truth are often in the minority and in many cases suffer persecution, killings etc. Thank God I am miles from you , otherwise by now you might have set your 'dogs' on me.

But for the benefit of doubt let me give you some more lessons.


You  need to remember that we should not judge the teachings or the truth of a religion or philosophy by the conduct or behaviour of those who are not following those teachings.

This being the case, we need to be clear that many of the wars and other atrocities which have been committed in the name of Christ were carried out by people who either were not really Christians or who were genuine Christians but were not following the teachings of Jesus. Such conflicts were often motivated by political or economic concerns but were given religious overtones in order to convince the masses it was in their best eternal interest to get involved.

So rather than judging Christianity by the actions of these people, we should judge it by the teachings of its founder and leader, Jesus Christ. So come now, lets judge Islam by teachings of its founder and leader, Muhammad, lol. You stand absolutely no changce.

If you read through Jesus’ teachings in the Bible, you will come across such sayings as[b] “If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also” (Luke 6:29), “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” (Matthew 5:44) and “Love your neighbour as yourself” (Matthew 19:19). Hardly the sayings of a war-mongering leader.[/b]

The other point to emphasize is the positive impact Christianity has made on society. This is often overlooked when people are talking about the negative things done in the name of the faith. Most of our educational institutions came out of Christianity. Many of the founders of modern science were Christians. The revivals of the 17th and 18th centuries produced social reforms that led to the abolition of slavery and the improvement of conditions for women and children. Philanthropic organizations such as the Salvation Army, the Red Cross and the YMCA came out of these revivals. Remembering this fact gives us a fuller, more balanced picture of the effect Christianity has had on society.

frosbel:
Yawns

Until you and your colleagues show me biblical passages specifically from the mouth of Jesus Christ himself supporting these actions , your points are not only invalid but worthless.

I have provided tons of quranic verses ( and will provide more when I get angry, lol  ) that support your prophets murderous exploits.

Please , please give me some of the murderous exploits of Christ himself.

You cannot, another time waster. 

frosbel:
Lol. I am not here to win an arguement ( or avoid a ban as if  I CARE  ) but to debate my points !!!

I have asked you so many times to provide me with within- the- context scriptures ,  specifically words by Jesus himself which provide christians with the go ahead to commit violence.

On the contrary your book is littered with such passages . Only a fool will come to conclusion that militant ISLAM is not the pure brand of ISLAM.

Finally just thought I should give you some latest 'good ' news tonight from your so called 'religion of pieces  peace '

2010.04.04 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Three bloody suicide blasts target the Iranian, Egyptian and German embassies, leaving at least forty dead.


17-Year-Old Bride of 71-Year-Old Attempts Suicide.

The attempted suicide by an islamic  girl who is 54 years younger than her husband lights up once again the long-running controversy surrounding early marriages in Turkey, many of which are pursued for financial reasons according to one women’s rights organization. ‘I love my husband, but I did this because I was under pressure,’ says the 17-year-old





Weekly Jihad Report

Mar 27 - Apr 02

Jihad Attacks: 35

Dead Bodies: 166

Critically Injured: 415


Good night .

jcross19:
SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE MUSLIMS IF SOMEONE DO NOT BELIEVE IN YOU THEN LIVE HIM OR HER ALONE OR IS IT BY FORCE TO BELIEVE IN YOUR WAY? WHY CAN'T YOU HAVE A TIME TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF ALMAJIRIS CAUSING FRACAS ALL OVER THE NORTH . NOW I DISCOVER THAT MUSLIMS ARE SLAVES OF A DEAD ALLAH B,COS THE RATE OF HANDICAPS IN NORTHERN REGION OF NIGERIA IS AS MUCH AS ANOTHER NATION POPULATION , YOU MUSLIMS THAT WILL COME HERE AND RANT RUBBISH WHY CAN'T YOU GIVE YOUR FELLOW ALMAJIR A PROPER EDUCATION THAN LEAVING THEM IN A DILAPIDATED CONDITION . THE TRUTH STILL REMAIN ALLAH IS DEAD god AM CHALLENGING IT'S AUTHORITY. IF YOUR ALLAH IS WHY CAN'T IT FIGHT FOR ITSELF.

frosbel:
I tell you to quote me biblical verses that justified their actions , most importantly by Jesus Christ himself since without him Christianity is invalid just like without Muhammad Islam means nothing.

Stop roaming around providing instances of violence and crimes committed by so called 'Christians '. What I need is hard evidence from the Bible quoting our saviour's own words from his own mouth asking us to go on a Jihad to forcefully convert the gentiles while despoiling their women  and  pillaging their goods and massacring their children and men.

Please if you cannot, then forget it !


On the contrary I can provide another 5 time wasting minutes to post a host of Quranic and Hadith verses, that compel and entice Muslims to do Jihad , kill the unbelievers, hate the JEWS, despoil their women etc etc .

EzeUche:
Frosbel fight the good fight brotha! 

frosbel:
You are either totally ignorant of what Christianity is all about or knowingly refusing to acknowledge the facts on the ground.

Do you not know that the majority of those killed during the inquisition period were those who took the bible LITERALLY and vowed to practise its teachings in totality?

The teachings of the Bible explicitly forbid the use of violence, it’s blatantly obvious by the content of its texts.

Jesus said by their fruits you shall know them.

Any body who kills in the name of Jesus cannot be a true Christian in the sense of the word.

On the contrary, the Quran backs and encourages Jihad to further their goal of worldwide Islamic domination. You may not harbour this goal as an individual , but multitudes of Militant Muslims are fighting battles to further this diabolical goal world wide.


Jihad sometimes might not necessarily involve war; it could be through the spread of lies, so called rubbish inter-faith dialogues and peaceful deceptive conversions.

In fact it is permitted in the Quran to lie to Unbelievers. Tell me what kind of God will sanction lying and forceful conversions?

Militant Islam is totally void of compassion and love.

Please stop feeding me that crap about Islam been a religion of peace, do you think that I am dumb or what.

Stop talking about peace just DO IT!!   Practise the peace then I will reconsider.

I was in Kano 1991 when my Igbo brothers and Christian middle belters were hacked to death during an unprovoked attack. Reason?  Reinhard Bonke was in town for a crusade! I narrowly escaped lynching then as a corper. So keep your lies to yourself about this so called 'Peace' that we do not see.

Look at it round the world:

-Iraqi Christians fleeing Iraq for fear of death, their churches bombed , their women despoiled etc etc

-What about Egyptian Coptic Christians persecuted in their own homeland with many of them fleeing to the United States.

- A Somali Pastor whose head was cut like that of a chicken recently because he was preaching the gospel, not beheaded but violently cut with a knife like a chicken

- Turkey’s genocide of the Armenian Christians before the Second World War.

The list just goes on and on peaking with Jos where only recently 500 mostly women and children were slaughtered like Rams.

Do you think we are living in the stone age or what? Comparing 10th century crimes of inquisition to crimes of the 21st century?

Plain madness

abhosts:
Wow!! Now let's look at the teachings of the "Jesus" that asked him to kill those people:

“But whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well.” Matthew 5:39b

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you" Matthew 4:44

"See that no one repays anyone evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to everyone." 1 Thessalonians 5:15

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" Hebrews 12:14

"Put away your sword," Jesus told him. "Those who use the sword will die by the sword" Matthew 26:52

"Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy times seven times" 18:21-22


[size=15pt]YOU DECIDE[/size]

frosbel:
And don't start coming at me with lies and the catholics did this or that, the bible was never and has never and cannot be used to Justify violence.

In as much as the guys actions were despicable you cannot use this singular event to form a hypothesis. It is rather daft and silly to do so.

When you hear of Christians bombing airliners, churches, shopping malls, tube and rail stations, markets etc etc , then come back and we shall agree that this is indeed a problem

Hardtalk:
Okon who had driven a distance of about 500m in the tarmac unchallenged, headed for the left wing of Boeing 5N-MJJ aircraft, but made a U-turn and buried the car underbelly.

Despite the impact, the suspect had remained in the car probably waiting for possible explosion until airport security operatives dragged him out of the scene.

But Okon who has been described as a Christian extremist, instead of showing remorse for his action, had rained abuses on everybody at the airport.

He had repeatedly said, “You are all sinners. All of you deserve to die because mankind is turning away from God. People in the world are turning away from God. Every human being is wicked and deserved to go to hell except you repent.”

http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art201004031214725

edoyad:
Don't display your ignorance needlessly. Joseph Stalin right from childhood didn't believe in God and was a menace at the seminary school he attended.