₦airaland Forum

Real scientists talk about the age of the earth

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How old is the earth?

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Join this debate where muslims, catholics and Jews present their cases.

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Watch the big debate with Atheists, Christians, Jews and Muslims

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-S7M0KZTsU

Join the big debate where adherents of all the major religions defend their worldview on the BBC, UK.

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

-- James 1:5-6

My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

-- James 1:2-4

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

-- Hebrews 13:8

So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

-- Hebrews 13:6

The New Creation
November 24, 2009

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17)

To appreciate this wonderful verse properly, it is helpful to remember two things. In the New Testament both "creature" and "creation" represent the same Greek word and so can be used interchangeably. Secondly, in both Testaments only "God" or "the Lord" can be the subject of the verb "create" or "created," because God alone is the Creator. Men can "make" things, or "form" things, but only God can create!

As far as the physical creation is concerned, the work of creation was finished long ago (Genesis 2:1-3; Hebrews 4:3, 10) except for the very special case of miracles (e.g., the miracle of the multiplied loaves and fishes).

Nevertheless, He is still the Creator, and the miracle of regeneration is a spiritual creation which does occur every time an individual truly receives Christ as Saviour and Lord and is thereby "born again." Only God can create! No psychologist, or guru, or anyone else can make a "new man" of an "old man." Only God is Creator, and an unregenerate person must be "born of the Spirit"-- that is, God the Holy Spirit--to be truly "born again" (John 3:3-.

But then he does become a new creation, and his life is changed! We "put off . . . the old man," and "put on the new man, which after God is created |note--'created'!| in righteousness and true holiness" (Ephesians 4:22, 24). We "have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him" (Colossians 3:9-10). This is Christ's work, for "Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God" (Galatians 2:20). HMM

The New Creation
November 24, 2009

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17)

To appreciate this wonderful verse properly, it is helpful to remember two things. In the New Testament both "creature" and "creation" represent the same Greek word and so can be used interchangeably. Secondly, in both Testaments only "God" or "the Lord" can be the subject of the verb "create" or "created," because God alone is the Creator. Men can "make" things, or "form" things, but only God can create!

As far as the physical creation is concerned, the work of creation was finished long ago (Genesis 2:1-3; Hebrews 4:3, 10) except for the very special case of miracles (e.g., the miracle of the multiplied loaves and fishes).

Nevertheless, He is still the Creator, and the miracle of regeneration is a spiritual creation which does occur every time an individual truly receives Christ as Saviour and Lord and is thereby "born again." Only God can create! No psychologist, or guru, or anyone else can make a "new man" of an "old man." Only God is Creator, and an unregenerate person must be "born of the Spirit"-- that is, God the Holy Spirit--to be truly "born again" (John 3:3-.

But then he does become a new creation, and his life is changed! We "put off . . . the old man," and "put on the new man, which after God is created |note--'created'!| in righteousness and true holiness" (Ephesians 4:22, 24). We "have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him" (Colossians 3:9-10). This is Christ's work, for "Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God" (Galatians 2:20). HMM

viaro:
It is not as if I argued for evolution in that thread. In fact, let me remind you: I'm not a fan of Darwinism. However, my concern there was to help Christians sort out their confusion in arguing aimlessly between science and teleology. I urge you to see my posts in that thread as you consider coming back with the "reasons" you have in mind as regarding the scientific concepts of the 1800s.

Let us use the Bible to consider the “Days” of Genesis 1. What does the Bible tell us about the meaning of “day” in Genesis 1? A word can have more than one meaning, depending on the context. For instance, the English word “day” can have perhaps 14 different meanings.

In Genesis 1, the first occurrence of “day” means “time” in a general sense. The second “day,” where a number is used, refers to an ordinary day, and the third refers to the daylight portion of the 24-hour period. The point is that words can have more than one meaning, depending on the context. To understand the Bible this acronym would be useful: COMB; C: Context, O: Other related scriptures, M: Meaning of words, B: Background.

To understand the meaning of “day” in Genesis 1, we need to determine how the Hebrew word for “day,” yom, is used in the context of Scripture. Consider the following:

[list]
[li]A typical concordance will illustrate that yom can have a range of meanings: a period of light as contrasted to night, a 24-hour period, time, a specific point of time, or a year.[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]A classic, well-respected Hebrew-English lexicon (a dictionary) has seven headings and many subheadings for the meaning of yom—but it defines the creation days of Genesis 1 as ordinary days under the heading “day as defined by evening and morning.”[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]A number and the phrase “evening and morning” are used with each of the six days of creation (Gen. 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31).[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]Outside Genesis 1, yom is used with a number 359 times, and each time it means an ordinary day. Why would Genesis 1 be the exception?[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]Outside Genesis 1, yom is used with the word “evening” or “morning” 23 times. “Evening” and “morning” appear in association, but without yom, 38 times. All 61 times the text refers to an ordinary day. Why would Genesis 1 be the exception? [/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]In Genesis 1:5, yom occurs in context with the word “night.” Outside of Genesis 1, “night” is used with yom 53 times, and each time it means an ordinary day. Why would Genesis 1 be the exception? Even the usage of the word “light” with yom in this passage determines the meaning as ordinary day.[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]The plural of yom, which does not appear in Genesis 1, can be used to communicate a longer time period, such as “in those days.” Adding a number here would be nonsensical. Clearly, in Exodus 20:11, where a number is used with “days,” it unambiguously refers to six earth-rotation days.[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]There are words in biblical Hebrew (such as olam or qedem) that are very suitable for communicating long periods of time, or indefinite time, but none of these words are used in Genesis 1. Alternatively, the days or years could have been compared with grains of sand if long periods were meant.[/li]
[/list]

The 19th century liberal Professor Marcus Dods, New College, Edinburgh, said:

"If, for example, the word “day” in these chapters does not mean a period of twenty-four hours, the interpretation of Scripture is hopeless."

If we are prepared to let the words of the language speak to us in accord with the context and normal definitions, without being influenced by outside ideas, then the word for “day” found in Genesis 1, which is qualified by a number, the phrase “evening and morning” and for Day 1 the words “light and darkness”  obviously means an ordinary day (about 24 hours).

John Calvin stated:

“Albeit the duration of the world, now declining to its ultimate end, has not yet attained six thousand years. , God’s work was completed not in a moment but in six days.”

Luther and Calvin were the backbone of the Protestant Reformation that called the church back to Scripture; Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone).  Both of these men were adamant that Genesis 1 taught six ordinary days of creation, only thousands of years ago.

And finally, The Almighty God when He commanded Moses to say to the children of Israel in Exodus 31:12:

Six days may work be done, but on the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Therefore the sons of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for an everlasting covenant. It is a sign between me and the sons of Israel forever. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed (Exodus 31:15–17).

Then God gave Moses two tablets of stone upon which were written the commandments of God, written by the finger of God (Exodus 31:18).

Because God is infinite in power and wisdom, there’s no doubt He could have created the universe and its contents in no time at all, or six seconds, or six minutes, or six hours, after all, "with God nothing shall be impossible" (Luke 1:37).

However, the question to ask is, “Why did God take so long? Why as long as six days?” The answer is also given in Exodus 20:11, and that answer is the basis of the Fourth Commandment:

"For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."

The seven-day week has no basis outside of Scripture.  In this Old Testament passage, God commands His people, Israel, to work for six days and rest for one, thus giving us a reason why He deliberately took as long as six days to create everything.  He set the example for man.  Our week is patterned after this principle.  Now if He created everything in six thousand (or six million) years, followed by a rest of one thousand or one million years, then we would have a very interesting week indeed.

These are some of the reasons why Christians should build their thinking on the Bible instead on the assumptions of fallible sinners's ideologies.

Star77:
Does anyone know of true churches in Manchester, UK apart from Redeemed and Winners' Chapel? Please let me know of any experiences you have had and if you can recommend a good church. Thanks!

Check this this church out.

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The Gospel of Jesus Christ (pt.2) -- Paul Washer


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I thank the LORD that we still have a remnant of believers who have not bowed down to the alter of the devil all in the name of fame. If the righteous be scarcely saved what will be the hope of the ungodly?

The Grace of Quietness
November 23, 2009

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." (Matthew 12:36)

"Let your speech be always with grace," the Scripture says (Colossians 4:6), "seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man," and "study to be quiet, and to do your own business" (1 Thessalonians 4:11).

There is such a thing as the sin of talkativeness, and many Christians are beset by it. Note some of the pertinent Scriptures: "He that hath knowledge spareth his words. . . . Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding" (Proverbs 17:27-28). "Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few" (Ecclesiastes 5:2).

"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath" (James 1:19). "But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil" (Matthew 5:37).

"In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise" (Proverbs 10:19). "Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks" (Ephesians 5:4).

There are many other such warnings, of course, but the one in our text is perhaps the most sobering of all. Evidently God has a sort of "tape recording" of all our conversations, and we shall be required some day to explain all those words which were not gracious and edifying. We would do well before the record of our idle and pointless conversations (not even to mention any that are hurtful or profane) mounts any higher to forsake the sin of talking too much, and to cultivate prayerfully the grace of quietness. HMM

viaro:
Now, back to our discussion on YEC.

Okay, that's cool and good for you then. I don't need to say anything differently from what I already said in post #24 about the difference between "create" and "made". God did not create the universe in 6 days - He didn't say so, nor did Moses. We are not told HOW LONG it took Him to create the universe, and Exodus 20:11 does not tell us how long either. For all intents and purposes, we have been through this point where I showed that there are events in the creation of the heavens and the earth in other verses which we do not read about in Genesis 1. There is a deafening silence between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis 1; and it was only afterwards that we begin to read of the 6 days.

I believe that I have refuted your assertions if you look into my response, I feel that I explained how bara and asah (create and make respectively) could be used interchangeably in the OT and in some other places they are used in synonymous parallelism (Gen. 1:26-27; 2:4; Exodus 34:10; Isaiah 41:20; 43:7).

viaro:
Lol, you seem to be so much in a haste to draw unfounded conclusions. For one, please read carefully what I say, and not what I do not say. As such, let me hint you as I've done to others: viaro is not a fan of Darwinian evolution. Even then, my mention of "the primordial condition of the earth" does not suggest Darwinism.

What did I mean by 'primordial'?

[list]"formed when the Earth or universe began"
[MacMillan Dictionary Online][/list]

[list]"existing at or from the beginning of the world"
[Oxford English Dictionary][/list]

[list]"1 a : first created or developed : primeval
1 b : existing in or persisting from the beginning (as of a solar system or universe)"
Merriam Webster Online[/list]

These are the examples of the simple sense in which I used 'primordial', and they do not suggest a leaning towards darwinism, no matter how some Christians tend to react because they flinch anytime they read particular words or terms. In that case, I clearly made mention that what Peter was giving us in the statement 'the earth standing out of the water and in the water' was a primordial description of the earth (it has nothing to do with darwinism).

Explanation understood. I am sorry if I misunderstood you but could you be much clearer in explaining your axiom? Do you believe in the theory of evolution? and do you also believe that the Flood of Noah was literal and global?

viaro:
God does not tell us anything about "when and how long it took Him to create" in your quote of Psalm 33:6,9. He made no mention of when (not 6 days dating back 6,000 years ago), nor for how long (the universe is evidently older than 6,000 years). Please note carefully that the "universe" is much bigger than the earth. . because it seems to me that many times this is taken for granted in your posts.

No one is saying that the universe is the same thing as the earth I don't know where you got this from your assumption is ridiculous! God was clear as to when He created, how He created and how long it took for Him to create the universe and everything within it, including the earth. And note that I did not say that the earth is the same size or bigger than the universe.

The Jews should know better since the fourth commandment comes from the basis of the six day Creation Week. Their sabbath day was considered as an ordinary day and the 6 days of work were considered as ordinary days. The first century Jewish historian Josephus indicated that the Jews of his day believed that both the first day of creation and Adam's creation were about 5,000 years before Christ. (See The Works of Josephus, page 850, 1987).

viaro:
I do not "need" to include anything; and YEC proponents should have no "need" to reduce the universe to 6,000 years old either! Evidently, and more importantly, YEC should help themselves to distinguish between "man" and the "earth" - you cannot use the age of man to define the age of the earth!

That's precisely what YEC has been doing for eons. There's nothing one can present to them that they would not find some clandestine way of squeezing it into their 6,000 years model.

The fact that I believe that God created everything in 6 days, 6,000 years ago as the Bible says, reveals the power and wisdom of God in a profound way, that the Almighty God did not need billion of years before He could create in fact, the billions of years scenario diminish God by suggesting that mere chance could create things or that God needed huge amounts of time to create things, this would be limiting God's power by reducing it naturalistic explanations.

In Mark 10:6 that I referred to earlier, Jesus says: "But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female"  How you concluded that Jesus was talking about any other thing apart from Adam and Eve surprises me.  From the passage, Jesus clearly taught that the creation was young, for Adam and Eve existed "from the beginning," and not from billions of years after the universe and earth came into existence.  Jesus made a similar statement in Mark 13:19 when He indicated that man's sufferings started very near the beginning of creation.  The parallel phrases of "from the foundation of the world" and "from the blood of Abel" in Luke 11:50-51 also indicate that Jesus placed Abel very close to the beginning of creation, not billions of years after the beginning.

As I have posted earlier on this thread of the fact that Moses will accuse a lot of so called Christians who do not believe his writings or take as allegories when it is not to be.  Jesus said in John 5:45, "Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you -- Moses, in whom you trust.  For if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"  Here, Jesus makes it clear that one must believe what Moses wrote.  And one of the passages in the writings of Moses is Exodus 20:11 which states that "For is six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day" this was even inscribed by the finger of the Almighty God!  This passage was meant to be taken as speaking of a total of 7 literal days based on the Creation Week of 6 literal days of work and one literal day of rest.

viaro:
My discourse is not on 'evolutionists' or 'evolutionism' - and if you want to see an example of why many Christians use "creationism" to argue breezily against evolutionism, please see OLAADEGBU's thread, Questions For Evolutionists And Atheists. In that thread, I excitedly waited for OLAADEGBU to show me "how Creation Design falsifies the evolution theory" - need I say he did not show me 'how'. not in the least way possible.

In that site you suggested a link was suggested to you there that explains why you should not tread the dangerous path you are now threading;

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/why-christians-shouldnt-accept-millions/

I doubt whether you read it.

viaro:
It is not as if I argued for evolution in that thread. In fact, let me remind you: I'm not a fan of Darwinism. However, my concern there was to help Christians sort out their confusion in arguing aimlessly between science and teleology. I urge you to see my posts in that thread as you consider coming back with the "reasons" you have in mind as regarding the scientific concepts of the 1800s.

Thanks for your replies and observations. I may be away for quite some time; but I shall consider your further replies whenever I'm back on NL.

I will suggest that you read up on the links olaadegbu posted in the thread up there and I hope that will solve your concerns and close the door of compromise.  It is the authority Word of God versus sinful man's opinions that is at stake.  The Word of God is the evidence of how and when God created, and His Word is incredibly clear.

The glorious gospel preached in three minutes!

All religious folks should answer the question in this video:

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jagunlabi:
As for jesus, how do we know that this composite gospel character does not have a devilish/satanic origin?Is he not the SUN of God?Do we know what he really taught?No we don't.All we have are things that we are told that he taught, hearsays packed into some "holy" books from the very same illuminati sources that are controlling the music industry at the moment.

The moment you begin to doubt God's Word as written in the Bible you will then buy into the lie of the devil as Adam and Eve did. Satan said did the He say that you should not eat out of the tree of the garden?

jagunlabi:
The devil is vastly more clever than you or i can ever think, and no religion is beyond his clutches.As a matter of fact, the illuminati created these socalled religions to possess humanity.The possession plan of humanity through religions and other means started thousands of years ago.

You may not be totally wrong there as the devil knows that we cannot reach God by these so called religions. Most religions if not all have been deceived into thinking that they can please God by their self righteousness and religious practices, they believe that they can get to heaven by trying to be good in their own strength, this again is a lie of the devil because all our righteousness is like filthy garments before God. It is only through the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus that we can please God and these can only be obtained by faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross of Calvary where the price of our redemption has been fully paid. This is God reaching out to us and not the other way round.

jagunlabi:
Modupe, gospel music is also devil's music.You think the church music will be overlooked as a tool for effectively casting spells on a large population of humanity by the illumies?Not a chance.

The way the contemporary gospel music is going I will not be surprised if the devil has already taken a foothold in most of these modern pentecostal churches. Remember that Satan who used to be lucifer had music built into him at his creation and was the one in charge of worship before his fall. That is why the church should be very careful when it comes to the type of music they play, they must make sure that they minister to God and not to the flesh as Satan would want them to do.

jagunlabi:
The same demons are also behind the religion industry.Jehovah/jesus/allah are all false gods, demons posing as the one creator of all things.

You are not far from the truth there, demonic religious spirits are responsible for the religions of the world but Jesus came to bring a living relationship with the Creator God, He did not bring religion as this could not connect us with the living God. You will be surprised that people, including those who call themselves christians worship at the alter of the god of music -- Lucifer, and this explains why they find it difficult to stop listening to these worldly music that has been dedicated on the alter of the devil.

God's View on hip hop

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God's View on hip hop

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The Truth behind hip hop music.

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The Problem of Pressure
November 22, 2009

"For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life." (2 Corinthians 1:

Every Christian must endure times of great pressure, for this is part of our training for God's service in eternity. "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake" (Philippians 1:29). "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him" (James 1:12).

Probably none of us, however, will ever be called on to endure the pressures experienced by Paul. When one feels that he or she is "pressed out of measure, above strength," it would be salutary simply to read again his frightful experiences recorded in 2 Corinthians 11:23-33.

And then read how Paul dealt with these pressures! His testimony is found in the three verses following our text verse for the day. "But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us; Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf" (2 Corinthians 1:9-11).

The answer to the awful pressures of life and circumstances, therefore, is not to rely on our own strength and ability to overcome them, but to trust in the God who can raise the dead! Our own prayerful trust is to be supported also by the prayers of our friends, so that they also can share the joy when deliverance comes. Let us regard such pressures, then, as an opportunity for growth, for prayer, for trust, and for joyful testimony when God delivers. HMM

Jay Z's subliminal message exposed

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John Todd, an ex illuminati explains the demons behind the music industry.

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She Says Prophet Muhammad is in Hell (Hell Testimony)


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John Todd, an ex illuminati explains the demons behind the music industry.

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Yes. It seems similar to the doctrine of purgatory, maybe that's where they got the idea that they will all pass through hell?