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Bro. LagosShia, As-salam alaekum.

LagosShia: there is no need for the long post.it is a very simple matter.can't you observe that your ahmadiyyah sect is finding ways to see loopholes and insert interpretation or rather misinterpretation?

For your correction, we are not sect rather the community i.e. the Jamaah of Holy Prophet[saw]
And we do not misinterpret [naudhubillah] – we seek Allah’s protection – and we can never mis-interpret anything sacred intead, we follow the interpretation of Allah Almighty[swt] and that of Holy Prophet[saw] and his companions[ra].

"nazala fiikumu"=descend upon you.if you say "descend among you".there is no problem.the keyword is "descend".how does one descend? from his mother's womb? i dont think so.

One can descend in different ways. It depends on the connotation of the usage. For example, the Arabs did say that “Nazala-l-Jundu ‘ala kadha makaan” i.e The army [host] has descended in such a place or in so so place.

However, Allah [swt] uses nazala in different connotations in the Holy Quran, as was the Holy Prophet[saw] in the Ahadith. Among few examples are:

[a] About Food: “We caused Manna and Salwa to descend upon you….” [Q2 vs 58]
[b]About Wealth or Table Food: “O Allah, our Lord, cause to descend on us a table from heaven spread with food that it may be to us a festival…..” [Q5 vs 115]
[c] About Cloth [Garment]: “O Children of Adam, We have indeed cause to descend on you raiment [garment] to cover your unclothedness and to be a means of adornment…” [Q7 vs 27]
[d] About Iron: “…We caused to descend, iron, wherein is material for violent warfare and diverse uses for mankind…” [Q57 vs 26]
[e] About Holy Prophet[saw]: “…Allah has indeed, cause to descend to you a Reminder – A Messenger, who recites unto you the clear signs of Allah… [Q65 vs 11 – 12]
[f] About Holy Quran: “Surely, We cause it to descend during the Night of Decree” [Q97 vs 2]

Are all these loopholes?


Though you may want to give into different translations used by different translators in these verses but the fact and the root [Origin] remains Nazala- meaning descend as you think.

These are few out of several verses where the word is used by Allah[swt] and the Holy Prophet[saw] has used it in different places – none of it meaning falling or descending from the heaven [sic. Cloud].

If Nuzul in connotations of Holy Quran and Holy Prophet[saw]does not mean they descend physically from heaven, how would your son of Mary – who has never ascend to heaven – descend therefrom?

Surprisingly enough, Arabs also use Nazala [descend] for someone standing in someone else’s place. To be precise, every Messengers or anything from Allah is usually described as nuzuul in the word nazala to denotes that Allah is the Most High, while men is most lowliest*, so all that come from Him to men can be described as nazala – descend.

As regards the descent of son of Mary, the Holy Prophet[saw] has clarified it in the hadith complied by Imam Muhammad Ismail Al-Bukhara, by describing Jesus[as] son of Mary, whom he saw during his ascension [Mi’raj] differently from the son of Mary[as] to come in the latter days. Read the Hadith and compare their physique as well. Two different persons are described. Or are they the same?

This tells you that the Holy Prophet[saw] was telling us about someone else but resembling Jesus Son of Mary in spirit and dispensation of Prophethood. And someone that would serve as the end of dispensation of Holy Prophet[saw] – the end the world – just as the Jesus son of Mary[as] served as the end of dispensation of Moses. Do not forget that the Holy Quran as well as former scriptures described Holy Prophet[saw] as Messenger resembling Moses[as].

However, you may not want to accept this truth while still nursing the notion that Isa, son of Mary ascended to heaven. Know that ascension of Jesus is purely Christian faith and doctrine, which found its way into the Ahadith during Muawiyyah dispensation. If you know science of Hadith [‘Uluum-ul-Ahadith] very well, you would quickly decodes their error. For example, if you read Tafseer Ibn Kathir, on the verses 158 – 159 or Suratul Nisa; he had quoted Ibn Abbas and other narrators different view about the event of the cross.

The quotation that sends melancholy to your heart instead of satisfaction. You’d be left in dilemma as to which one of the Ahadith is to be believed and all of them have been regarded as Sahih on the basis of Kunyah, whereas they narrate contradictory story that is totally irrational and unholy.

The Holy Prophet has explicitly declared that Jesus[as] has died like every other Prophet[as] and the Holy Prophet[saw] believed this and said in several places that Jesus has died like all others. The Companions believed this as well and nobody nursed the notion of unreal Jesus living in the right hand of God until the time of Muawiyyah, when Christians in Syria fabricated thousands of Ahadith to establish their faith in Muslims.

the first part says "descend among you" and the other part speaks of an Imam among ourselves.this hadith is talking about two different men.and this is made even clearer when other hadiths about the descent of Jesus (as) and Imam Mahdi (ajtfs) are taking into persepctive.

This is why I had told you that the Hadith:

“kaefa antum idhaa nazala fiikum bnu maryama, wa imaamukum minkum” [/i]means “how would your condition be when son of Mary is raised among you and [he be] your Imam from among yourself”

You will understand the Hadith better when you read it together with the Hadith in Ibn Majah or Mustadrak-al-Hakim, which is collected by Muhammad bn Khalid Jundi, who collected it from Aban bn Salih, on the authority of Hassan bn Basri, on the authority of Anas bn Malik, who heard the Holy Prophet[saw] saying “[i]Laa Mahdi illa ‘Isa” i.e. There is no Mahdi other than Jesus.

That is the Imam Mahdi awaited is the same son of Mary to come only clothed in two garments [mantle] of Prophethood. Is it not great that the leader [Imam] of the Muslims is raised from among them, who is also to do the work of Messiah on both the Christians and the Jews. In fact to bring the whole world under the banner of Holy Prophet[saw] PEACEFULLY without violence – BLOODSHED- kamaa dakhaltumuhu awwal marrah… “Just as you had entered it in the first instance…”

Bringing about the victory of Islam over all other religions just as the Holy Prophet[saw] had demonstrated on the Day of Victory over Mecca. Insha Allah, the day is very nigh. Join the forces of Prophet Muhammad [saw], so that we can togetherly be decorated by Allah Almighty. And stop waiting for Mahdi that would never come.

Rise and accept him, who is sent by Allah today and remain blessed.

Jazakallahu khairan………Ramadan Mubarak…………and Eid Mubarak [in advance].

I will still encourage you to view live streaming of MTA TV on your PC, Mobile Phones via www.alislam.org/mta
[Watchout for programmes like Faith Matters, Rah-e-Huda, Beacon of Truth, True Talk among others in various international language of your choice]

Ma Salam.

[Love for All, Hatred for None]

LagosShia: this is how the hadith appears in Bukhari with its correct translation:

Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v4, Tradition #658

"how would your condition be when the son of Mary (as) descend upon you and your Imam (i.e. Imam Mahdi) is from you (i.e. the ummah of Muhammad)?"

Salam'w.

Bro. ShiaLagos Thanks for your cute observation about the Hadith of descent of son of Mary. May Allah forgive, for I had quoted the hadith verbatim and never put a quote on it to indicate that, that is how it is presented in any hadith nor quote any source of it. I had done this because there are several Ahadith about the subject and to present all of them in quotation would defile this little treatise. That was why I had summed the hadith verbatim without any quote.

Albeit, as you have helped quote the hadith, you need absolute correction for you do not know how to quote hadith. You wrote Bukhari no...., which volume of which version in which publication? You never mentioned this, learn how to correct if at all need be.

However, I am re-quoting the particular hadith you were trying to correct wrongly:

"Kaefa antum idhaa nazala fiikumu bnu maryama wa imaamukum minkum"
meaning
"How would it be with you when the son of Mary will descend among you and you will have a leader raised from among you"

[Bukhari; Kitabul-Anbiya, Babu Nuzul Isa bin Maryam]

You wrote
Descend upon you

Correction: Descend among you from nazala fiikum not nazala 'alaekum

You can go back to my previous trends about the usage of nuzuul in Quran and Hadith. Waimaamukum minkum, [and your Imam from among you refers to son of Mary [Jesus] being the Imam of Ummah of Holy Prophet[saw]

I will still encourage you to visit our website, www.alislam.org and watch Ahmadiyya 24/7 TV station on internet via www.mta.tv or www.alislam.org/mta

Ramadan Mubarak!!!

Ma Salam.

[LOVE FOR ALL, HATRED FOR NONE]

Salam'ww,

in the Quran,we are told "Jesus would be a sign of the hour".i asked how would Jesus (as) be a "sign of the hour"? you said his "spiritual return" and not his physical decent as Muslims believe with the exception of Ahmadiyyah.now who told you "sign of the hour" refers to Jesus's (as) "spiritual return" and not his physical decent? is there any prophet who told you that?

1. The advent of the Messiah ^a.s. marks the closeness of the Last Day of this world. A great landmark for you to know the world is about to end.

2. Allah s.w.t. explains vividly that Jesus son of Mary has died. For example Q5 : 76 says: "The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; surely messengers like unto him had passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman THEY BOTH USED TO EAT FOOD".

"See how We explain the signs for their good, and see how they turned away."

If you do not understand the first Jesus a.s , how would you understand the second Jesus as ?

As to your question of ‘who to me;...? Read Q 43: 58 - 67 again. The verse in context refers to two different personalities, who are alike in their mission, dispensation and status and rank. This is why the description of the Holy Prophet saw about Jesus[as] son of Mary and Messiah[as] or Jesus[as] to come in the latter days also differ. Read Sahih Bukhari Chapter on Mi'raj of Holy Prophet[saw] and Chapter on the tribulation, section on the Descent of Jesus. [waiting for response] Copy the quotations otherwise; we may do it for you.
So Allah[swt] tell us, the Holy Prophet[saw] told us and even the Promised Messiah[as] himself told us.

Do not be surprised that Jesus[as] son of Mary[ra], also said it in the Bible "Thou shall not see me until ye say blessed is he that come in the name of the Lord"

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ofcourse as an ahmadiyyah you want to believe that a pakistani man was the "spiritual return" of Jesus (as) and therefore he represents the "sign of the hour" that refers to Jesus (as).

3. For your correction friend, Hazrat Ghulam Ahmad[as] was not a Pakistani; rather he was of Persian origin - a great descent of Hadrat Salman[ra] Al-Farsiy though paternal side and a great descent of Sayyid Fatima[ra] through maternal side. He married a Sayyad family - a great descent of Hadrat Umar Farooq[ra]
["Learn for no one is born with knowledge, and the knowledge fellow is never like ignorant" - Imam Sha'fi]

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can you tell us which prophet described Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as the "spiritual return" of Jesus (as)? who said that and why should we believe that?

4. Refer to no 2. Also, know that Jesus[as]came after John the Baptist [Yahya]as]], that was why he was able to testify. The people [the Khulafah - Successors] that the H.P[saw] said would follow the Prophet[saw] - i.e. the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi - could only testify through convincing arguments.

You have to believe this after testing its truthfulness and authentication through: Quran, Hadith, History, Time, Heavenly Signs and the Proof put forward by the claimant.

5. Remember the instruction of the Holy Prophet[saw] that "when you see him, accept him, for he is the Khilafatullah Al-Mahdiy".

"O children of Adam, if Messengers come to you from among yourself, rehearsing My signs unto you, then whoso shall fear God and do good deeds, on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve"

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you ahmadiyyah are only looking for loopholes to insert your misguidance and misinterpretations.where did you bring the idea that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (and not me or even you) is the "spiritual return" of Jesus (as)? anyone can convinient claim that.as for the understanding that "Jesus would be a sign of the hour",Muslims believe Jesus's (as) return would be signaling the nearness to the end of this our world.

6. The Holy Prophet[saw] said: " For our Mahdi, there are two signs - which have never occurred since the creation of heaven and earth. The moon and the sun will be eclipsed in the early part of Ramadan and in its late part"
When Hadrat Ghulam Ahmad[as] claimed to be the Mahdi and the Messiah expected by both Muslims and Christians alike [in short by the world in general] in 1889, people like you raised clamour and demanded for signs. He[as] after much supplication to Allah[swt] announced again that Allah[swt] has replied the demands of the world that - other than other several signs, which has been shown through his hand in the previous years and others that would be shown in the coming years - the greatest sign mentioned in the Hadith of Holy Prophet[saw] about Mahdi would be shown within six years from then. He said there would be eclipse of moon and sun twice in the month of Ramadan between them [1889] and the next six years [1895]. "If this does not happen" he said "I and those that follow me are ready to discard our belief and throw all our writings [about 65 books in Arabic, Persian and Urdu, and thousands of other publications] into fire and ready to follow any shia Imam or Sunni Imam or any other that his truth could stand the test of time.
Contrary to your and Imam's expectation, the world witnessed what they had never witness and would never witness again in the Ramadan of 1894.

"Listen to the voice of heaven; the Messiah has come, the Messiah has come. Listen to the voice of the earth, the Messiah has come, the Messiah has come" - The Promised Messiah & Imam Mahdi[as]

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Another question for you is if we are to take Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as the "spiritual return" of Jesus (as) then how was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad "a sign of the hour"? how was he a "sign" and of which "hour"?

7. Read all the prophecies of the Holy Prophet[saw] concerning the time of advent of Messiah and tell me, which one is not fulfilled yet.

"Hearken, all ye people, this is the prophecy of Him Who has created the heavens and the earth. He will spread this community in all lands and will make it prevail over all through reason and argument. The days are coming and are near when this will be the only faith to be mentioned with honour in the world. God will bless this faith and this movement in an extra ordinary way and will be maintained till the Judgement day.

Bear it in mind that no one will descent from heaven. All our opponents , who are alive today, will die and their children will die and their children's children will die and no one of them will see the son of Mary descending from heaven. Then all will be so puzzled that the time of the dominance of the cross had elapsed and the world had taken on another aspect and yet Jesus, son of Mary, had not descended from heaven. Then all men of understanding will discard this doctrine altogether and those who wait for Jesus to descend from heaven, whether Muslims or Christians, will give up their writing in hopeless despair and disgust and there will be only one religion and one leader. I have been sent to sow the seed and the seed has been sown by hand. It will now grow and flourish and no one will be able to hinder it." - The Promised Messiah & Imam Mahdi[as]

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does the Quran say Prophet Idris (as) and not Jesus (as) would be "a sign of the hour"? no! the Quran does not say that.so if Prophet Idris (as) alongside Prophet Elias and Prophet Khidr (as) are all to return according to Shia or Sunni belief is irrelevant here.it is irrelevant because none of those are described as "sign of the hour" but Jesus (as) is.so lets discuss Jesus (as).

8. The first point of Quranic commentary is by Quran. I have cited those verses to tell you that all of them have all died and no one of them is coming again including Jesus.

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besides, the Quran states every soul shall taste death.so whether or not they are taken up,they must die.

9. Which means Jesus[as] son of Mary[ra] had died like every other mortal. Or what's your belief? Look at the Holy Quran, how it explain explicitly, Jesus son f Mary has died like every other being.

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according to Christians "emmanuel" refers to Jesus (as) and no Muslims except you have claimed it refers to Prophet Muhammad (sa).well again how do you know it does refer to me?

10. My brother, do not mock the signs of Allah. The prophecy in Isaiah said "he would be an orphan and his name shall be Emmanuel [that is God is with us]"

- Jesus was never never an orphan instead fatherless;

- Jesus according to Christian or Bible never demonstrated Emmanuel instead he cried "Ello ! Ello lama sabaktani i.e. Oh Lord! O Lord! Why hast Thou forsaken me."

- The Holy Prophet[saw] demonstrated Emmanuel during his journey [Migration] to Medina while he hide with Hadhrat Abu Bakr[ra] in the cave Thaur. This is the event Allahswt pays tribute to in Q 9: 40, O ye ignorant one.

- I do not expect Muslims like you to believe in it because you share the same ideology with Christians, thus the Prophecy of Holy Prophet[saw] is fulfilled against you all [or do you want me to quote the hadith to you?]
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brother LagosShia had explained earlier on that Jesus (as) did not die a physical death.the word use to describe Jesus (as) during when he was to be raised up into the heavens is "mutawaffika". And that word is also used in the holy Quran to refer to humans in a state of sleep.it does not mean physical death.in fact the Quran says about Jesus (as) that he was neither killed nor crucified.

11. How come you ascribe something else to another thing.

"Mutawaffika" was not used when Jesus was to be raised to heaven as you asserted. If the "Tawaffa" has become problematic to you, understand it in the concept of Holy Quran.

The Holy Quran uses the word "Tawaffa" in several places as regards death and perhaps only one place as sleep, then you're trying to hide under this to explain that Jesus has not die.

Now read about Jesus again:

"And when Allah will say, O Jesus son of Mary, didst thou say to men, 'take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?' He will answer, 'Holy art Thou, I could never say that to which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. It is Thou alone Who art the Knower of all hidden things; 'I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me - Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher over them, and Thou art Witness over all things." Q 5: 117 - 118

If "Tawaffa" used for Jesus is different from 'Tawaffa' used for all other people, as you purports, explain this "Tawaffa" used for the same Jesus[as] again.

As regarding your statement he neither killed nor crucified, the Arabic sentence is 'Wa maa qataluuhu, wa maa solabuuhu' which means 'they did not kill him [directly as qatala] and they did not slain him by crucifixion [indirectly]

[I hope Brother LagosShia is going to read this too]

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another point you as an ahmadiyyah need to answer is this:if God caused Jesus (as) to "die" (remember the word used is "mutawaffika" ),and then God as stated in the Quran said He would raise Jesus (as) to Himself,then how come ahmadiyyah have a grave for Jesus (as) in Kashmir? isn't that ridiculous?

12. Not ridiculous at all my brother. If to discover the grave of Jesus[as] in Kashmir is ridiculous, how then greater ridicule would it be to see the Holy Prophet[saw] grave in Medina? All these are natural signs of Allah. Allah never say he would raise Jesus physically to himself but Jesus[as] spiritual status was meant to be raised. Millions, if not trillions of Muslims pray every day for Allah to raise us to Himself, but nobody has ever being seen raised physically. If "Rofa'a" is another problematic word to you, check other usage of the word in Quranic and hadith connotation.

However, one is obliged to ask where is Allah, if Jesusas was raised physically to heaven or to Allah?[/i]

But remember "[i]From it you are created, and in it ye shall return and from it ye shall be raised up once again" - Quranic explanation of natural phenomenon.

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just tell us the following:

1.) who told you Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the "spiritual Jesus"?

2.) how was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a "sign of the hour"?

3.) and of which "hour" was he a "sign"?

Answers to these your question refers to above 13, 14, and 15, Please!!! [Tautology]

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my friend you're confusing yourself.Yahya Ibn Zakariah (as) died a natural death.but Jesus (as) did not.you have no case here to make by using the story of Prophet Yahya (as).i could also say that just as Yahyah (as) died Jesus (as) still must return to taste death.

16. No confusion and no irrelevance. I cited the verses relating the story of Yahyaas and Jesus[as] just as Allah has related it to call human mind to the fact that Jesus[as] was no more than human and a prophet like Yahya[as] and as Yahya[as] has died, he had died.

If you say that Jesus[as] must return to taste death, it will be highly irrelevant because Yahya never go to heaven as you thought Jesus[as] did. Therefore, Yahya[as] died not being raised to heaven return to die. Then why must Jesus[as] be raised to heaven and return to die?

Note that Yahya[as] never say the day I will be taken to heaven and return to die nor Jesus[as] utter the same. They are human beings, Messenger of Allah that must face trials, conquer it and be victorious and die peacefully.

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i can also tell you that it is through the blessing of Ayatollah Khomeini's revolution that many of us in africa came to know about the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and became Shia Muslims leaving Sunni islam. [/quote

17. Sorry my brother. But you still need to keep stepping forward in your search for truth. Continue to be a truth seeker, venture into Ahmadiyya with open mind and see the difference!!!

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[quote]and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad just like the founder of wahhabism,Ibn Abdul Wahab were british colonial agents sowing discord and teaching innovative ideas contradicting Islamic teachings.

18. This is misconception about Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad[as]. How could he have been British Colonial agents, while preached against British fundamental faith:

a. Claiming, the god of British is dead?
b. Claiming he was the Promised Messiah?
c. Seeking Freedom of faith for Muslim round the world especially the Indian Muslims [Please, I encourage you to read history very well and stop confusing SOULS. You can also read my response to LagosShia on this subject matter above, please!!!].

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Ayatollah Khomeini wrote many books and practicalized Islam.in Iran women dont use to wear hijab,but after his revolution even if the queen of england visits,she must cover her head.Islam became the soul of iranian society.and you call that political struggle?

19. Why trying to make mountain out of a mould hill? Does it mean, the Islam established by Hadrat Umar[ra] bn Al-Khattab which established Islamic empire in Iran and beyond had seized to be at the time of Khomeini? You seem unaware of the true Islamic history, my brother.

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well,just in case you as an ahmadiyyah is ignorant of islam,i should teach you that ISLAM is a complete way of life that includes both the spiritual and physical.Islam also has its spiritual aspect

20. If you had limited your word to me, I would have remained silent here but because you mentioned Ahmadiyya, you need reply.

Ahmadiyya comes reforming Ummah and their faith. It makes us aware of our spiritual and moral values as well as physical obligations and development at the time you [shia] scholars were busy fighting the sunnis, on little doctrinal differences and with this all facts, arte-facts and glory of Islam was lost and relegated to oblivion.
Today Islamic world is facing problem because of the discord, ignorance and taint sown by the Shia and Sunnis. On the other hand, Ahmadiyya teaches us how to bring back the lost glory of Islam for Islam to triumph through PEACEFUL means and not through injustice and violence as the Shias had propounded.

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you can deceive yourself with that.a mujaddid is someone whose presence is felt and not a position to be claimed as such.

21. If you believe that, watch how Islamic trend has changed since Braheeni-Ahmadiyya was written in 1883 and 1885. And see scholars comment even on net. See how Hadrat Ghulam Ahamd[as] presence is felt round the world even by your education, which your parents could have prevented you from achieving if not for Ahmadiyya.

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if he is Masih and Mahdi,he doesn't need to claim to be a mujaddid.mujaddid's presence is felt and not a title given.it is the function that is felt.mujaddid (reformer) is a function and not a title like prophet and messiah and messenger.

22. I never told you he claimed but people acknowledge that he was. Even if he claimed, it is in purport of the hadith's fulfillment.

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show me one prophet in the Quran who claimed to be mujaddid or Allah (jj) called mujaddid.not one!that is because it is a function and not a title or divinely appointed station like prophethood.

23. Do not misquote me. I did not tell you Mujaddid is Prophethood. But a Divine office which could be enjoy by Prophet before becoming Prophet or even at the time of being Prophet. I had told you that Prophets of Isreal were reforming the faith of Moses[as] among Israel. But because of highest spiritual station of Holy Prophet[saw], Mujaddidin were meant to follow him except a Prophet and not Prophets like Moses[as]

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being a mujaddid is not "ba'tha" or "divine appointment".it is by the actions of a person.if my actions benefit islam and the muslim the most,i can be seen as a mujaddid.

24. 'See how we explain the Signs for them and see how they turn in aversion with disdain'.


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i do not intend to go into much details.you are diverting.this entire discussion and the focus is on who the liar called Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is.whether a hadith is faulty or authentic has little implication [quote]25. I love you brother and care for you. Do not ruin yourself be calling Allah's Messenger a liar!

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[quote]for you information the hadith that Jesus (as) would pray behind the Mahdi (aj) is authentic beyond doubt.

26. Do not misinform me, for I have studied the science of that particular hadith while in school and discovered a lot of error in it. I still have those discrepancies in my library and I can present it to you if I have time to search for them. However, you can also study it with open mind and would see the incongruities.

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you are silly.I am Shia and not Sunni.i do not hold in high esteem your "sihah sitta".

27. 'Shibabu-l-muslim fusuuq wa qitaaluhu-n-naar' ['Abusing or cursing of a Muslim is transgression and fighting him is Fire', another version 'fighting him is sin'

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abu bakr led no prayer and the Prophet (s) did not order him to.this is evident through comparing the contradictory hadiths in Sunni books.also,abu bakr was recruited by the Prophet (s) to join the army of Usama Ibn Zaid (ra).so how could he have being in medina to lead prayers?

28. I have asked you to read Tarikh-l-Islam. It is an established fact that Abu Bakr[ra] returned, kissed the Holy Prophet[saw]'s remains forehead before the election and led the Janaza prayer. Or are you claiming the Holy Prophet[saw]'s funeral prayer was not observed?

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the mahdi that will come from the descendants of Sayyida Fatima (as) whose name shall be Muhammad also.

29. Alhadullilah, you accept.
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do not quote inconsequential hadiths fabricated by the banu umayya to conceal the status of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and the mahdi who shall come from them.

30.
a. Tell me which of the above quoted hadith is fabricated?

b. The hadith that the Mahdi will bear Holy Prophetsaw's name is a further evidence to support the claim of Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmadas that he is the promised [prophesied] Mahdi. For, the Holy Prophetsaw had two names in the Holy Quran [that is Muhammad and Ahmad]. That Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmadas of Qadian is named Ghulam Ahmad [that is son Ahmad] is no more coincidence because no one ever know what he would become in future at childhood nor can any infant mention to parent to name him or her thus.

31. See above [specifically no 3]. You can venture into the study of his chronology - it is an open world.

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silly!

32. "And when it is said to him 'fear Allah!' Arrogance smites him with sin, then sufficient for him is Hell and an evil abode it is”

[b]33. "...did not the Messengers from among yourselves come to you, reciting unto you the signs of your Lord, and warning you of the meeting of this day of yours?' They will say, 'Yea, but the word of punishment was bound to be fulfilled in respect of the disbelievers"[/b]

Ghulam Ahmad[as] did not bring any message other than the lost Message of the Holy Prophet[saw]

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you can do your Ghulam a favor by answering those 3 questions i earlier asked you.

34. Nobody can do any favour to a Prophet of God. But I can do you favour to show you his truthfulness. If the answers given to you is not sufficient, you can read more about your questions on our website [www.alislam.org] "ASK" or the library and please correspond me on aught read.

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if you read in the Quran,Muhammad (sa) is the seal of prophets,then how do you attribute prophethood to your Ghulam?

35. I have answered your question/questions already but do yourself favour by answering my questions.

Is your Rasul of Israel coming after Holy Prophet[saw] or before him ?

If after, please answer the following questions:
a. Will he still maintain his status [i.e. Rasul] or Brother Shia Jesus]?
b. If he maintains it, will he be Rasul to the world [for Holy Prophet[saw] is Rasul to the world] or Rasul to Isreal?
c. If he is Rasul to Israel - [Little issue], If Rasul to world [big issue]

Little issue:
a. Will he be Rasul to non-muslims Israelite or to Israelite muslims?

b. If he is to non-muslims Israelite good! For there would be no much work only the Israelite of 2000years ago are not of today - they're found in almost all countries now. Anyway may be your Jesus would ask them to come home to accept him in Israel or wherever he descends?

c. If he is to Israelite muslims, he would be transgressing in his mission as these people belong to Ummah of Holy Prophet[saw]

Big issue:
If he is Rasul to world, then the Muslims of the world had to raise clamour - as against the hadith of Holy Prophet[saw], that command them not to do this - that Rasul to Israel has become Rasul to the World? Then the verse wa rasuulan ila bani israeli has to change or seize to be read or being erased or listed among the abrogated verses as against its un-abrogated nature propounded by their Fathers – Scholars, Ulema.

How will you resolve these?


“What is the matter with these people that they do not understand the Word [aught] nor they are rightly guided”


Once again, It's nice to have you on this forum. Ramadan Mubarak!!!

I will also encourage you to visit www.alislam.org and watch our LIVE 24/7 streaming TV channel on internet via www.alislam.org/mta or mta.tv

Jazakmullah!

Ma Salam.
[LOVE FOR ALL, HATRED FOR NONE]

radar5: We should all know why death of prophet Issa is important to the Ahmadis.
First,without believing that prophet Issa died,how would Ghulam Ahmad claimed he was the Mahdi the Quran told us.
Second, because of the Ghulam ambition and his knowledge in western education and his access to books written by past Islamic sects.such as the Muttazilites,Kharajites,whose major works found root in Greek philosophy,he found accomplishes in British Government,who not only financed his project but also helped him established his satellite television to distribute his fallacies.
Their Mahdi died without the dreaded Dajjal,and yet life goes on.That is enough to put them on the right path.

Salam'ww,

For you and others in this forum having similar thought about Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad^as being planted by the British, I think its high time I relay these to you and STOP corrupting the minds of people.

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahib of Qadian is often maligned through numerous allegations. One of them is that he was a British agentand was working against the Muslims! All this tirade occurs because he praised the British Government for the religious freedom it extended to its subjects. Presented below are six references, which will prove beyond doubt that leading Muslims of Hazrat Mirza Sahib's time, too, spoke very highly of the ruling British Government. What is most baffling is that some of them have prayed for the Government and others called their Muslim brethren wretched and non-Muslims for venturing into a revolt against the very same British Government.

1. Maulvi Muhammad Husain Batalvi wrote:

“Of all the classes of people in India, it is the Ahl-e-Hadith Sect which regards it safer to live under the auspices of this (British) Government from the point of view of peace and freedom of faith, than under the Islamic states. It is because this Sect with the exception of British Government can not get full religious liberty under any other Government. (Ishaat-us-Sunnah, vol. 9, No.7, p.195).”

2. Janab Mujtahid Sayyed Ali Haairi wrote:

“We are proud of living under the auspices of a Government under which love of justice and religious liberty has assumed the status of law. This has no parallel in the world or under any other Government. Thus I say that every Shia should, as a token of his gratitude, make up his mind to feel beholden to the British Government. (Munazah Tahreef Quran, pp. 67-68 April 1923).”

3. Maulana Shibli Numani wrote:

“From the golden age of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) to this day, it has been an invariable characteristic of the Mussalmans (i.e., Muslims) that they have been loyal and faithful to every Government under which they lived. This was not their policy. It was the teaching of their religion. (Maqalaat-i-Shibli, vol.1, p.171, Maaraf Printing Press, Azamgarh 1904).”

4. Hanafi Mufti Maulana Muhammad Ishaque Patialvi gave his ruling thus:

“When Mussalmans came under the rule of the Christian Government, if any one of them killed any member of the ruling nation as a spiritual merit and called it Jihad, he was guilty of misguidance. His act was forbidden, and absolutely unlawful. It was not at all a sacred war or Jihad. But it was a mischief and breach of peace. (Siraj al-Huda, Razvi Press, Delhi 1904).”

5. Anjuman Himayat-i-Islam, Lahore:

“As a mark of gratitude for the favours bestowed on us by the Government we have been its loyal subjects. It is the fulfilment of a duty we owe to it as its subjects. It also signifies spiritual merit because the Holy Quran says: ‘Obey God, obey the Apostle and those in authority among you.’ May this Government last long! Under its auspices we enjoyed peace. May God enable us to remain loyal for ever! (Printed Report of the Anjuman Himayat-i-Islam, 1903).

6. Maulvi Zafar Ali Khan, Editor the daily Zamindar, Lahore wrote:

“If some wretched Mussalman who is enjoying full freedom of faith and peace, ventures to revolt against the Government, we announce by the beat of drum, that that Mussalman is no Mussalman at all, (Zamindar, November 11, 1911).”

He again wrote:

“Our heavenly religion exhorts us to obey the commands of the Ruler of the day. We enjoy all the blessings, secular and religious, under the British Crown. From the point of view of religion, it is binding on us to be loyal (Zamindar, Lahore, November 1, 1911).”


Nevertheless, I will still encourage you to visit our website www.alislam.org or watch our LIVE 24/7 TV station on internet via www.mta.tv or www.alislam.org/mta

Ramadan Mubarak!!!

Ma Salam.

[LOVE FOR ALL, HATRED FOR NONE]

As-salam'ww.

Zhul-fiqar:
Let me make it plain to you that we are not disagreeing on what you understand by the word "as-sa'ah" which means "the hour" or "the time" or "the period".i just want to note that every verse in the Quran i have read that uses the word "the hour" refers to the judgement day or simple put "the hereafter" or the end of this world and order as we live in it.

'Al-sa'ah' [the hour] does not only mean Judgement day or end of the world. Look at the context of the ongoing verses in quote. It only means "latter days" here [43:62], [54:2]. 'Al-sa'ah' also means the hour of destruction of enemy of Islam e.t.c see [7:183 - 189][see Q 54:47]. So, when you read Quran, dont only read the verse singly but the contents and the contexts should be read along other similar verses, for every verse of H.Q. butresses others.

Zhul-fiqar:
now the verse i have presented to you tells us that Jesus (a) would be a "sign" of the hour.how would he be a "sign"?you said it refers to Jesus's (a) advent in the latter days.that is all good with me and no disagreement at all.you agree that Jesu's (a) is going to come in the latter days.

The Holy Quran [the word of Allah (swt) ] and the Holy Prophet (saw) said it clearly, why should we disagree
while our sources of guidance is only Allah and His Messager (saw).

But the coming of Jesus (as) refered to by Allah does not mean physical descent of the son of Mary (as) but his spiritual descent, just as the Bible talked about the descent of Elijah [Anabiy Idris (as)] which Jesus Christ (as) clarified that had indeed descended but people did not beleive him - It was John the Baptist [Anabiyy Yahya (as)] who descended in Elijah's spirit - because "nobody goes to heaven except he who come from heaven" said Jesus(a.s).

I have to remind you here that you also believe in the ascenssion of Prophet Idris [as] as you beleive in ascenssion of Jesus Christ [as] like Jews and Christains but you only quote:

"...And we raised him to a lofty station." [Q 19:57] to prove that he was also raised to heaven ealier. But you have not told us when he will descend or will he enter paradise like that [i.e. with this physical body]? or will he not be raised on the day of judgement?

Earlier scriptures also refer to the coming of Holy Prophet as the coming of the Lord; He would be called Emmanuel (that is God is with us). But nobody called or named the Holy Prophet [saw] Emmanuel until Allah revealed [Quran 9:40]. Remember, the Holy Quran has clarifeid that Jesus son of Mary [on whom be peace] has died like every mortal "Jesus son of Mary has died like every mortal". If you dont believe it, meet me again to prove his death with about 121 verses from Holy Quran.

Now the question is that, if Jesus [as] has died, which sign is he going to be in the latter days? And whose [Nuzul] did Holy Prophet [saw] refered to?
1. - Know that the verse under quote [43:62] never mention that he would descend nor does any verse of Holy Quran mentions his Nuzul.

2. - The Holy Prophet [saw] used the word [Nazala or Nuzuul] the way Allah used it in several places in the Holy Quran [e.g. Q26:193-195, 17:94; 15:90]. Infact, the word [Nuzuul] is used in the Holy Quran in the follwing connotations
a. Cloth
b. Holy Prophet [saw]
c. Quran
d. Iron
e. Books e.t.c.

Zhul-fiqar:
the verse stated explicitly the name of the person who will come in the latter days.that person is the same person who is the son of Mariam (a) in chapter 19 of the holy Quran known as Surat Mariam.the verse does not say "someone" would come.nor does it is from time to time someone will come to refresh or renew the religion of Islam or the ummah.

Read Suratul-Maryam, why Allah [swt] first relates the story of Yahya [as] before that of Jesus [as] is because they were both signs out of wonders of Allah and that in the latter days people would turn to the worship of the latter, whereas he enjoins no status in respect of birth and death other than that of Yahya [as]. Both of them have verses of same origin and root value that they were mortal, born and dead like every other human being:

"And peace was on him the day he was born, and the day he died, and peace there will be on him the day he will be raised up to life again"...Quran 19:16.

"And peace was on me the day I was born and peace there will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again [resurrected]" Q 19:34.

Note that the continous tense [Fi'lu mudhorii'] is used for both in case of death. That is [yamuutu] and [amuutu]. If you don't undertsand the language of the Holy Quran, you will miscontrue this also for Yahya being alive and that, one day he will also die in future, which means til Quran seizes to exist. And no mention of the 3rd coming of Elijah or 2nd coming [rather descent] of Yahya [as] anywhere.

It means that if Jesus has died, he is not the one to come in the aforementioned verse in comment. And this is why the Holy Quran has not spoken of his physical descent anywhere, rather Allah(the All-Wise) uses the word "sign".

Zhul-fiqar:
the verse stated explicitly the name of the person who will come in the latter days.that person is the same person who is the son of Mariam (a) in chapter 19 of the holy Quran known as Surat Mariam.the verse does not say "someone" would come.nor does it is from time to time someone will come to refresh or renew the religion of Islam or the ummah.

Read Suratul-Maryam, why Allah [swt] first relates the story of Yahya [as] before that of Jesus [as] is because they were both signs out of wonders of Allah and that in the latter days people would turn to the worship of the latter, whereas he enjoins no status in respect of birth and death other than that of Yahya [as]. Both of them have verses of same origin and root value that they were mortal, born and dead like every other human being:

"And peace was on him the day he was born, and the day he died, and peace there will be on him the day he will be raised up to life again"...Quran 19:16.

"And peace was on me the day I was born and peace there will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again [resurrected]" Q 19:34.

Note that the continous tense [Fi'lu mudhorii'] is used for both in case of death. That is [yamuutu] and [amuutu]. If you don't undertsand the language of the Holy Quran, you will miscontrue this also for Yahya being alive and that, one day he will also die in future, which means til Quran seizes to exist. And no mention of the 3rd coming of Elijah or 2nd coming [rather descent] of Yahya [as] anywhere.

It means that if Jesus has died, he is not the one to come in the aforementioned verse in comment.And this is why the Holy Quran has not spoken of his physical descent anywhere, rather Allah(the All-Wise) uses the word "sign".

Zhul-fiqar:
now the question of who is a mujaddid among Muslims is based solely on opinion.if you ask me in the last 100 years who is our mujaddid,i would say Ayatollah Ruhollah Khoemini.his revolution in Iran was an awakening moment for Muslims.

Mujaddid is not a national, regional or political office. And it is for Ummah of Holy Propeht [saw] in general not particular nation. For if there are diferent Mujaddid as you said, Ummah would never be reformed nor the perfected religion - which has been relinquished to vermiform be reformed. Instead, more problem would be created. Alhadullilah, you quoted Ayatollah Khoemini and Muhammad Baqir AlSadr and Sayeed Hassan Nasrallah. Do they have the same ideology and do they fight for common cause - i.e reformation of Ummah? The answer is NO! Ayatollah Khoemini is busy with political struglling rather than reforming Ummah around the world, ditto for others quoted and so on.

And moreover, Ayatollah never claimed to be a Mujaddid nor the Shuyukh [Saint] of this era approved him as Ghulam Ahmad [as] is approved even by eminent opponents.

Mujaddid is not a matter of opinion, it should be understood in the context of the Hadith and the way the Holy Prophet [saw] had put it. From the time of Umar bn Abd-Azeez [ru] till the time of Shah Waliullah Al-Delawi [ru], no one differed about the Mujaddid but when the last Mujadid - whose advent is also Mahdi and Masih Mau'd as mentioned in authentic Ahadith - Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed, people like you raised clamous. [Read Q 3:20 and 98:5].

Zhul-fiqar:
all i am trying to say is that a mujaddid holds no divine station like prophethood,messengership or imamate.

I hope you believe that Islam had started for long with Propeht Adam [as]. All the Prophets that followed him were Mujaddideen until the advent of Holy Prophet [saw] - Khatam-un-Nabiyy - when Allah perfected and completed the everlong evolutionary Islam. The Prophets of Isreal after Moses [as] were only Mujaddideen for Moses law. [Q 5 vs 45]. If you don't understand the concept and meaninig of Mujaddid - I can explain it to you thereafter or we can both shed more light on its meaning.

Back to the topic en focal, the Hadith say:

"Verily Allah, the Powerful, Mighty will be raising for this community [Ummah]....."

If you think someone raised by Allah [swt] Himself hold no divine station, then you need not believe in any Prophet because the same word [Ba'atha] used by Holy Prophet [saw] is used by Allah as regarding the Prophets [e.g. Q62 :3 e.t.c]. And nobody can aspire for the office of Mujaddid and attain it as the office of Prophet is not also aspired for and attained.

"That is Allah's grace; He bestows it on whom He pleases; and Allah is the Master of immense grace."[Q 62:5].

Zhul-fiqar:
going back to the subject of the verse and the coming of Jesus (a),Jesus (a) is not a mujaddid.Jesus (a) is a messenger and prophet of God.he is a nabi (prophet) and also a rasul (bringer of divine revelation).Jesus (a) is far above a mujaddid.Imam Mahdi (ajtfs) who will also come along during the time of Jesus (a) is more than a mujaddid.Imam Mahdi (ajtfs) according to hadith accepted by both Sunni and Shia,would be the Imam that will lead Jesus (a) in prayer.this is significant because in the life time of Prophet Muhammad (s),it is forbidden for anyone to lead him in prayer.also when Prophet Muhammad (s) passed away no one led salat janaza for him because Muhammad (s) is the imam of every Muslim till Yamul Qiyama.no one can be his imam in anyway or form.he is the divine leader.we are told Jesus (a) will refuse to lead prayers and it would be Imam Mahdi (ajtfs) from the progeny of Prophet Muhammad (s) who will and would be the divinely appointed imam.

The Ahadith about who lead prayer Mahdi or Jesus, which found its way into authentic hadith has been proved by Scholar of hadith to be faulty. See Ibn Taimiyal book of Authenticity of Hadith e.t.c. Read the hadith and follow chain of narrators together with the tone and language, you will once discard the hadith. The hadith is Maudu'uh.

Zhul-fiqar:
also when Prophet Muhammad (s) passed away no one led salat janaza for him because Muhammad (s) is the imam of every Muslim till Yamul Qiyama.no one can be his imam in anyway or form.he is the divine leader.we are told Jesus (a) will refuse to lead prayers and it would be Imam Mahdi (ajtfs) from the progeny of Prophet Muhammad (s) who will and would be the divinely appointed imam.

You are completely unaware of Islamic History. Read Ibn Hisham Tahrik-l-Islam; Haykal; Ibn Mssu'd Hikayat Bidayatul Islam mina-l-Makkatu ila-l-Madina. Even the Siha sitta [six authentic hadith] have it that Hadrat Abu Bakr(ra) led the funeral prayer, though he was at first declined to do so but having became the Khalifah, he led the prayer. Also, while HP [saw] was alive, he had ordered Abu Bakr to lead people in prayer while he himself joined later...

Zhul-fiqar:
now you have to tell us who or what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was.was he a mujaddid?a prophet?a messenger?a holy divinely appointed imam? a prophet is not a messenger.an imam is not a prophet/messenger.a mujaddid is not an imam/propher/messenger.so what was he?

Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad [as] was the last Mujaddid of later days [the 14th century mujaddid], a prophet and Messenger of God [Allah] under the mantle of Holy Prophet [saw] and He is the Imam Mahdi [as]. Remember the hadith from Bukhari:

"How will your condition be, when Jesus son of Mary will be raised from among you and he will be your Imam"
"There will be no Mahdi other than Jesus son of Mary"...Ibn Majah

These refers to one person, holding different offices. Note: The Holy Prophet was first called Nabi, then Rasul, then Shaahid, then Khatama-n-Nabiy etc. These are different titles of one person.

Verse 61 of Chapter 43 refers to Ghulam Ahmad [as]. And denying it is denying the Holy Prophet [saw]. If you are in doubt do Istekhara over it with open mind or recite Suratul Yasin with 2 rakats for seven days before going to bed, Insha Allah, you will find Allah's guidance over this.

Like I said earlier, coming of any Prophet is always attributed to the past Prophet because of the similarity in thier dispensation, character and status. The Holy Prophet [saw] has been called Ahmad by Jesus in the HOLY QURAN[OR BIBLE], but today's Bible had changed it to Paraclet e.t.c. The Prophet Sulaiman [Solomon] called him Muhammad, today's Book of Jews [old testament] change it to Beautiful one. All these do not change the Holy Prophet [saw]. For seeker after truth from the People of Book and such a one on studying the Message of Holy Prophet [saw] will quickly accept him. Study the message of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad [as] with open mind today.

Zhul-fiqar:
now you want us to believe that verse 43:61 specifically mentioning Jesus (a) would come to relate to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.that is not possible to accept or reason.you cannot use a verse mentioning someone's name specifically to give to another person with another name and who does not claim to be the "son of Mary".

We beleive in Khatamun-Nabiyeen as the sealof Prophets [Read our Quran and Literatures even on internet]. The difference is that, you confined yourself to one meaning as against several meaning given by Holy Quran and Holy Prophet [saw]:

1. The Holy Prophet mosque in Madinah was called by him, "the last mosque" [are you sure there has not been thousands of mosques built after it?]

2.Hassan bn Thabit was called Khatam-us-Shua'rah e.t.c.

Your belief bellies the true sense of Khatamun Nabiyyen, if you beleive Jesus - Rasul to Israel - would come AFTER Holy Prophet [saw]....[So who are we to claim to be the last accoding to your believe?]. It means, God forid, Jesus possesses higher spiritual power than does the Holy prophet.

However, Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) claimed he was the son of Mary expected by both the Christians and Muslims alike.

It's nice to have you on-board.

Jazakmullahu Khairan.

NOTE: Watch live streaming of MTA International [24/7] on web and mobile devices through www.alislam.org/mta

[Love For All, Hatred For None]

radar5: We should all know why death of prophet Issa is important to the Ahmadis.
First,without believing that prophet Issa died,how would Ghulam Ahmad claimed he was the Mahdi the Quran told us.
Second, because of the Ghulam ambition and his knowledge in western education and his access to books written by past Islamic sects.such as the Muttazilites,Kharajites,whose major works found root in Greek philosophy,he found accomplishes in British Government,who not only financed his project but also helped him established his satellite television to distribute his fallacies.
Their Mahdi died without the dreaded Dajjal,and yet life goes on.That is enough to put them on the right path.

Salam'w.

I will personally invite you to move closer to the Jama'at and see for yourself how members of the community all over the World selflessly donate and spend in the way of Allah [Locally and Internationally].

If you do not know yet, Muslim Television Ahmadiyya [MTA] International can also be WATCHED 24/7 [LIVE streaming] on Web and any Mobile devices [iphone, ipad, blackberry, androids] through www.alislam.org/mta

I hope you will be fortunate to watch series of viewers interactive programmes like Faith Matters, Beacon of Truth, True Talk e.t.c in any international language of your choice.

May Allah continue to guide us ALL to His right path.

Jazakmullah!!!

[Love for All, Hatred for None]

Zhul-fiqar:
please can you explain to us this verse about Jesus (as):

"And indeed, Jesus will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path."(Holy Quran 43:61)

The word 'al-sa'ah' literally translated as 'the Hour' should be understood in the light of same expression used in [Quran 54:2]. There are revolutionary changes which were destined to be brought about by the advent of the Holy Prophet[s.a.w] are referred to as 'al-sa'ah'. The connotation of this term as applie to Jesus in the verse under study should be understood on the same lines. Hence 'the Hour' refers to the advent of Jesus in the latter days and the spiritual revolutionary attendant upon it.

So, our believe should not literally stand on the fact that someone will come down from heaven [Jesus [a.s]] in human body form to reform the Ummah of Holy Prophet. Rather, in line with the prophecy of the Holy Prophet [s.a.w] from time to time, Allah will be commissioning from among them [Muslims] who would be raised to regenerate and restore lost spiritual glory.

Now, for those that believe that NO other Prophet will come after the Holy Prophet [s.a.w], the question they need to
answer is, When Jesus [a.s] reappear in later days, what attribute are we going to give him? a Prophet? a Messanger? or just a man?

[Love for All, Hatred for None]

Its a pure shame that, most Muslim have derailed from the pure teachings and practices of the HOLY PROPHET [saw]...

May Allah show and revive them from their own choosing path.

LOVE FOR ALL, HATRED FOR NONE.

Wait til eternity....No man will ever descend from heaven....God will be choosing man from among them, to preach to man. If Jesus should descend as most people believe....From which continent will he starts killing PIGS as prophecy say?

These has nothing to do with reading 'MITITI'....It's about the wisdom and pure understanding from Allah.

Read more @ www.alislam.org [LOVE FOR ALL, HATRED FORM NONE]

Peace be on to you, Islam was once a strange thing to mankind and in later days shall it be when Islam is propagated to people in its true form. Learn and read more @ www.alislam.org [LOVE FOR ALL, HATRED FOR NONE]

Salam'w...DO you really know what is actually called Kalima Tayyibah....I think your understanding is limited.

...Please, go out and learn more about Islam @ www.alislam.org

All these are white lies....But know for sure that, none of your unwarrantable misconceptions could beat down the trend of TRUTH of Ahmadiyya....visit www.alislam.org

Mere from you name of the drug, It sounds fake, "My Pikin". I keep wondering how NAFDAC do their routine of work after authenticating some company and drugs. This should buckle NAFDAC up, in some lapse over issuance of registered products.

PLEASE SPREAD THE GOSPEL, "MY PICKIN" DEY KILL OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

@OYB

I think those link av presented above could be of help.

Thanks

@ Frizy

As-salam W.W. Am am very happy to participate in this forum. With those points you highlighted as you pointed to call them (Ahmadis) Kafr, i only have to refer you so some saying of the HP (SAW) where he mandated his true followers to seek for knowledge even beyond thier nose tip. You never claim that you've made some investigations on your own but to mention what you've heard. What you've stated are on the based of "A Brother".

What effort have you made yourself to determine even he's telling lies or are you calling him a saint (A brother with no proof or claim).

My advise is that Frizy, Make research for yourself and pray for God's guidance. I think you need more enlightenment about each point you raised. Maybe we have to discuss it one after the other.

Maybe these links below could be a stepping stone for your research
http://alislam.org/library/
http://alislam.org/books/invitation/content.html http://alislam.org/library/books/Seal-of-Prophets.pdf http://alislam.org/books/truth/index.html

If you have more to contribute, The door of the forum is always open for discuss.

Ma salam.