₦airaland Forum

openmine:

....and heave offering?
Okay let's say you unintentionally missed that part.....
but that's by the way...
Let's talk about the law....

For where there is a CHANGE of priesthood, there is a necessity for the CHANGE of the LAW
Hebrews 7:12

For the LAW has been abolished due to its uselessness and unprofitableness....
Hebrews 7:18-19

Hence Christ is the high priest of a better covenant
Hebrews 7:22
I didn't say so bro,the bible did....if you want I can provide other scriptures to show you the law is a whole!

Now let's come to the 'do not kill' or 'do not still' commandment,
There is no better scripture that properly explains such annulment of the law than this below.....

Romans 13:8-10
Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The simple response to your killing commandments is....do you need the law of moses to actually INSTRUCT you not to kill?

Finally,let's just understand one thing about Matthew 23:23
The very reason why Jesus could not stop the law of tithe or any other laws of moses was simply because he was still UNDER THE LAW!
It was after his death and resurrection that he was exalted as high priest!
It was his resurrection that caused a total annulment of the law!
He fulfilled the law of moses when he died on the cross of calvary thereby giving rise to a BETTER COVENANT, A BRAND NEW LAW AND A SUPERIOR HIGH PRIEST IN CHRIST JESUS!

as for your last statements which are the usual rehashed words of most gullible tithers are borne out of sentiments and utter blackmail!!
You are actually doing what some Jews did to some gentiles who recently received Christ in Acts 15:5....where they were demanded to obey the law of moses...However,peter opposed them!
Please read through Acts 15!

And to make it quite clear to you,I don't need a law to tell me to give to the needy or for the work of the church or to those who need help!
Paul excellently showed to believers how to give.....

2 Corinthians 9:7
Every man should give as he has DECIDED IN HIS HEART...not GRUDGINGLY or based on A NECESSITY.... For God LOVES A GENEROUS GIVER!

Smadeinc:
I don show
Happy Sunday bro

OkCornel:
Read Matthew 23 v 23, and conclude for yourself if Jesus was referring to tithing as practiced in line with the requirements of the Mosaic Law;

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

1) What kind of tithing was Jesus referring to, was it not tithing in line with the Mosaic Law?

2) If you use Matthew 23 v 23 as your shield of defence

(a) Are you tithing in line with the requirements of the Mosaic Law? Check Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29
(b) Are you aware Jesus was endorsing the entirety of Judaism in Matthew 23 v 23?
(c) Does Jesus have any reason not to uphold the Law at a point in time where He had not fulfilled the requirements of the Mosaic Law?

3) If Abram is your model for tithing because of a one-off voluntary transaction from the spoils of war with Melchizedek...what then is the basis for a Christian to part with 10% of their monetary income every month under the guise of "tithing"?

OkCornel:
Per the bolded, let me ask you this...

1) Did man's knowledge of good and evil start with the Mosaic Law?
2) Did Cain consult the Mosaic Law before concluding he had sinned by killing Abel?
3) What is evil if I decide not to tithe? Bear in mind that I am not under any law to tithe
4) Do Christians "OUGHT TO TITHE" because Abram tithed VOLUNTARILY?
5) Can you show us where exactly God instructed Abram or Jacob to tithe?

openmine:

Ohh Oga it seems you forgot the burnt offerings,u also forgot heave offering and other offerings known to Abraham before they received the blessings in Genesis!
I guess you have a new covenant cancellation for that....

You should know too well that circumcision and burnt offerings were also transited to the law of moses hence if one was abolished,ALL will be abolished!

I have a question for you....was tithe a law?
Was circumcision a law before it was abolished?

You can't say circumcision which is part of the law like tithe was abolished and yet tithe wasn't abolished?

The problem with you and your likes is that you tend to believe some laws were abolished while some were left behind forgetting that the law is whole and never some sort of biscuits that you would decide which to eat and the one to take away!

OkCornel:
Which other proof do you want them to bring apart from Matthew 23 v 23 or Luke 11 v 42?

They are even shooting themselves in the foot because Jesus was referring to tithing performed in line with the Mosaic Law.

These pro-tithers do not even consider the fact that Jesus had not fulfilled the Law at that point in time.

Jesus upheld the Mosaic Law. Notice how Jesus healed lepers and still told them to present themselves to the Priest for purification and cleansing in lines with the Laws of Moses.

Now that the Law is fulfilled, how does tithing concern the non-Jews that were never under the Mosaic Law in the first place?


These pro-tithers are jokers mehn...

OkCornel:
1) Jesus the Son of God, never collected tithes from His followers

2) The Apostles of the early church never collected tithes from the early Christians or mandated the early Christians to tithe...


But someone is of the opinion that our Pastors are now "spiritual levites" with the appropriate authority to collect monetary tithes from Christians...

Suddenly, these "spiritual levites" have more authority than the Jesus and the Apostles of the early church as long as the matter of tithe collection is concerned...

This is really interesting!

OkCornel:
Jesus upheld tithing as practiced in line with the Mosaic Law in Matthew 23 v 23.

Is the tithing practiced in the church today performed in line with the requirements of the Mosaic Law?

openmine:
[s][/s]

the op said "tithing" predated the law right?
Now am asking you who seem to be incredibly knowledgeable or tend to comprehend the OP better..what happened with circumcision and burnt offering that predated law?
Please answer with scriptures or be quiet!

OgogoroFreak:
I don't say to Jesus or anyone else "Lord, Lord".

I don't waste valuable time on things like "Soul" "Spirit" "Ghost" "Heaven" - they are all gibberish to me.

The Bible is not my guide. I'm a very practical person. In life, I do only things that work for me and dump the things that doesn't work for me regardless of whether it's in the Bible or not.

OgogoroFreak:
I have never for once paid tithe but I have millions breathing in my account and more millions coming in.

openmine:

Please ask him why "Melchizedek aka Jesus" didn't stop burnt offering or circumcision that also predated the law!

alBHAGDADI:
This issue of tithing is one which has come under immense attack in Christianity today. I was once one of those who attacked the doctrine of tithing with so much zealousness right from my days on campus. It was after I stumbled on an article online which had me fooled. It had me fooled simply because my foundational knowledge about tithing was weak, perhaps I almost had no knowledge at all. Thanks to Pentecostal churches who never cemented one's foundation with good knowledge of tithing. That's why the heretic and horrible article could fool me for years. But I now know better and fully understand why Daddy Freeze is so zealous about his anti-tithe stance. He has been deceived also or he's intentionally a deceiver.

Now, let's address the issue of tithing and see some of the points anti-tithers have raised which most of these false men of God haven't been able to explain.They haven't been able to give any explanation because they never studied, they were just all about squandering the tithe money. That's why some professing Christians are abstaining from tithing due to the work of the anti-tithers. The shepherds who are supposed to guide the sheep haven't been doing their duty but fleecing the sheep. Now, unto the points they raise.


1. Tithing doesn't predate the Law

Speaking of the law, we mean the law of Moses to the children of Israel. In it is a command for them to pay tithe which was then given to the Levites, one of the tribes of Israel who had no landed inheritance but worked in God's house.

Numbers 18:24

But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance

But was that the first time tithe was mentioned in the Bible? No, it was mentioned way before Moses who gave the law was even born. Father Abraham was the first person to pay what the Bible called tithe i.e one tenth of all. Even before Abraham, the concept still existed e.g Cain and Abel.

Abraham paid tithe to Melchizedek who was the Priest of the Most High God, who was Jesus Christ in the old testament.

Genesis 14:18-20
18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all


This clearly shows that Tithing existed before the law of Moses. We are children of Abraham through faith in God and we are to do the things which Abraham did. But there are some things Abraham did that we are not allowed to do. I'll show you those things and why we aren't allowed to do them.

Some might want to be smart by saying the tithe Abraham paid was of the spoils of war. Is that bad? He fought a battle with ten Kings and won, thereby possessing the spoils of war from which he paid tithe. Mind you, there was no LAW then to condemn war as something bad, if at all you think it is bad.

Romans 3:20
for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Out of their foolish smartness, they will still ask to know whether Abraham continually paid tithe. What they are saying is that the Bible should be all about Abraham paying tithe because there aren't other stories to write about.

Abraham's grandson Jacob also gave tithe before the law of Moses. Remember Jacob is the father of the Israelites whom Moses came from.

Genesis 28:20-22
20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the Lord be my God:
22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

But these scoffers and anti-tithers love to ask us to show them where it is recorded that Jacob really paid tithe. If the above passage is not enough for them to believe Jacob paid tithe, then showing them more verses will never be enough because they will keep asking for the third and fifth time he paid tithe.


2. Tithing in the Law

I'm glad that anti-tithers all agree that tithing was part of the law. But some of them are crazy enough to say it wasn't money and that it was agricultural produce. Those produce were what they used to quantify wealth then and even as a means of exchange. Job's wealth was measured in the amount of cattle, rams, camels, donkeys etc which he had. Why didn't the Bible right it in the amount of Dollars or Pounds or whatever currency was used then?

Today, everyone is not a farmer and never was tithing commanded to the farmers alone. That's why money is used as tithing today.

And yes, you are to eat of that tithe in Church. That's why Churches hold feast where everyone eats and merry in the house of God. If your church doesn't do that or hasn't in a long time, then there is something wrong.

3. Tithing after the Law

If you believe tithing is a Law of Moses, then it explains why you believe it is no longer valid now that we are under the grace of Jesus Christ. Before I explain why tithing never got outdated, let's first read the passage below which is actually Jesus talking, who received the tithe Abraham paid before the law was born.

Mathew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

As seem above, Jesus never condemned tithing, he approved it. He only condemned the scribes and Pharisees and Hypocrites who lay so much emphasis on it but forget other important things of the law. According to Jesus, they ought to do all together. That period would have been a perfect time for Jesus to condemn tithing if he didn't want to keep receiving it. But he never did, instead he approved it.

Anti-tithers also foolishly say he wasn't talking to Christians but to the scribes and Pharisees. Guess what? He also mentioned hypocrites, and we have Christians who are hypocrites. They pay tithe but lack justice, mercy and faith which are the weightier matters of the law. They are so wicked that they exonerate the wicked and condemn the righteous because the wicked man is their tribesman. That's injustice. They also lack mercy and have placed their faith in their tithe instead of Jesus. That's why many of them think not paying tithe will make them end up in hell. Is it tithe that died on the cross to save them or Jesus?

Now, to all those who love to say tithing is done away with because we are no longer under the law but under grace. They love to quote the below verse.

Romans 6:14
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Yes, we are not under the law because Jesus has given us grace. But wait, is it everything about the law that has been thrown away? If the law has been done away with, then that means a man can sleep with his sister, his mother and his father's wife which are what the law commands against.

Leviticus 18:6-8
6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their unclothedness: I am the Lord.
7 The unclothedness of thy father, or the unclothedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her unclothedness.
8 The unclothedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's unclothedness.


That also means filthy homosexuals can continue with their disgusting act.

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

That means a man can also go ahead and have sex with his wife's sister.

Leviticus 18:18
You must not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is still alive

The above are just a bit of what the law is against which we as Christians have been able to do well in obeying. I ask anti-tithers, why are we still obeying these commandments of the law if they have been done away with? They will never have an answer. But when it comes to tithing, they are always quick to say it has passed away with the law.

Now, how do we know which aspect of the law we are to keep and which ones are totally done away with? You see, those aspects of the Old Testamemt laws which God doesn't want us to continue with, he clearly states them in the New Testament. Example is the dietary laws where he ordered that men should not eat pig and certain other animals.

1 Corinthians 10:25
Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

"Whatsoever" means if it is a pig or an eagle or a cat. Remember how he also told Peter to eat those unclean animals.

What about animal sacrifices as done by Abraham and the Israelites under the law? That has been done away with because Jesus Christ the Holy Lamb has been slain once for all for our sins. We don't need to be slaying animals anymore, that is why that practice by Abraham is not followed by we his children of faith. You can read the entire Hebrews chapter for better understanding.

Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

What about an eye for an eye? In the Old testament, it was allowed as a law.

Exodus 21:24
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,


Jesus changed it in the New Testament.

Mathew 5:38-41
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain

What about the law on adultery which requires that the adulterer be put to death?

Leviticus 20:10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Jesus changed that law in the New Testament

John 8:3-11
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

What about stoning a disobedient child to death as seen in Deuteronomy 21:18-21? Jesus changed that with his parable of the prodigal son. The sons in both Bible passages have similar character, yet one was allowed to live.

There are many more of such laws which got changed in the New Testament. The ones God wants us to continue with, he made clear in the New Testament. Now, can anti-tithers show me one single verse in the New Testament that shows that God has changed the law on tithing? They can't because it doesn't exist. Now since no verse tells us to stop tithing or that it has been changed, who are anti-tithers to tell us to stop tithing? What they are doing is simply speaking for God when he hasn't spoken. They are trying to infuse into the Bible verses that are not there. They are teaching man-made doctrines and are passing it off as God's commandment and trying to force us to obey them.

Mathew 15:9
teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


4. Pastors are not the Levite tribe of Israel.

Yes, pastor are not the biological tribe of Levites whom God said should collect tithes, but they are the spiritual tribe in the order of Melchizedek. That is why they can collect tithes and eat out of it. Jesus aka Melchizedek the Priest of the Most High God collected tithe when he met Abraham. The Levite priesthood got transfered back to the Melchizedek priesthood as seen in Hebrews chapter 7. The pastors are now the priest and Jesus the High Priest, hence the reason why they collect tithe which is used to run the church, provide food for the needy and pay the pastor's salary because he only works in church. If he decides to work elsewhere as well, fine, he will still get paid his entitlement. Some pastors can even decide not to receive salary like Apostle Paul. That doesn't mean those who do are wrong. Mind you, Peter and the Apostles did eat of the Gospel.

But shame and curses be unto all these false Daddy GOs and false prophets who have amassed great wealth off this doctrine. No wonder churches don't hold feast regularly anymore because the pastor swallows the tithe money, all of it. You all have brought shame to the body of Christ because your opulence is the reason why tithing is under attack today. It is simply because you are looked upon like a Good because you started the church and think you own it. Every decision of yours is final without any board of elders to curb your excesses. Your doom is near because you have moved from being a shepherd to a hireling or a wolf who cares less about the sheep, that's why you fleece them.

If you have been deceived by Daddy Freeze and the horde of anti-tithers, it's never too late to come back. I was deceived too. But I have promised to return to tithing as from January 2019 and it will be in a Baptist Church where pastors are subjected under the authority of the elders and board, where money spent is questioned.

Thank you very much.


#NOTICE

Giving your tithe to widows, orphans or to the needy is wrong. It should be given to the house of God because all the instances recorded in the Bible about tithing shows that it was given to the house of God. It is now the duty of the house of God to give part of it to the needy, widows, orphans etc. If you give to those people, please don't call it tithing.

Lucifer66:
Yikes over long, I had to summarize it.
By your logic pastors can't heal the sick in their churches? You claim the pastors suddenly came and healed the patient in the hospital when that patient was already on drugs and receiving medical attention? Ignorance.
I have seen first hand when a woman brought a ton of people to pray for her child and the kid still died, Same thing with my late aunt. Prayer doesn't solve anything, If it did then Africa would be the best continent in the world but yet we're a shi'hole even with all the prayer!
Isn't it the same Jesus that said various mad words like the one below;
Matthew 10:34-35
Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
Set a son against his own father does that sound right to you? You people are brainwashed and can't understand it. If God hated religion then doesn't that mean you all are going to hell for involving yourself in a religion like Christianity?
I don't think you're understanding the fact that even tho we have 10,000 churches per state we're still the capital of poverty with the most children out of school while nations that have dumped these things are moving forward and creating a better life for their citizens.
People are dying of hunger in the land but yet you wayward people will be shouting "prayer is key"
Education is so low that so many people can't properly use the internet but yet you people say "God is good"
You forget that there's a 1 in a million chances of your God being the right one when there are millions of religions with different God's who claims there's the real one!

Lucifer66:
What you said made no sense honestly, Okay quote me wrong but I know that according to your belief when we die, We're judged and if we fail because Of ONE single sin GOD sends us to hell.
Am I wrong?
This basically means that someone like Bill gates who have helped the poor and nations will go to hell because he is an atheist.
Right?
Let's not forget that God made and created hell as a punishment for Satan because he rebelled but now he's send humans there to suffer for life when he claims to love us, Sounds like a monster to me.
This same God says your generation will suffer just because of your mistake, He did this to Adam and we're his generation.
Am I wrong? Don't run away lemme clear you foolishness.

Lucifer66:
Dump me in hell?
Isn't it God that takes people to hell?
Last time I checked Lucifer is a prisonal in hell not the owner or creator.

Lucifer66:
Propaganda.
It's clear the church is doing this out of desperation to clear its image.
I bet you they would have gotten their money back after one wayward man would donated a tithe of 1million.

ArmaniUhuru:
Racism will not end in the life. As long as white symbolizes holiness and purity, while black symbolizes evil and bad.

Smadeinc:
Lol
Why are you sounding angry this morning...I've never won the quiz before na, i merely just enjoy doing it, ehnnn no vex
Carry your wahala dey go sir

Kusetic:
[b][/b]

Ananias and Sapphira died because they sold their possessions and brought only a part of the proceeds while pretending to have brought all of it. They died because of a lie. You really need to study the Bible on your own and not regurgitate what your pastor tells you is the gospel, please study the Word of God. God doesn't need your money or my money to do wonders in our life. Pharisees paid their tithes regularly and Jesus still rebuked them. I only hope you won't realize that you are probably worshipping Mammon before it's too late.

Kusetic:
You are a very interesting "Christian". All you can say is pastor teaching this and church doctrine. You would have made a lovely Pharisee. I am a believer in Jesus the Son of God and he didn't pay tithes anywhere in the bible, He preached love towards neighbors and enemies alike. I think you need to love more and condemn others less, you won't convince anyone with your scaretactics the way your pastor most likely did with you.

Kusetic:
And you think you are holy right? I am sure you are one of those who count how many times other people sin or tell yourself "oh that guy didn't pay tithe or offering this Sunday, hellfire straight", I am not Holy because it's not by my own strength, the Bible did say the righteousness of man is like a filthy rag but I'm sorry Mr Holier than thou, you are greedy because you are giving the tithe with the expectation of returns and you in turn condemn people who don't subscribe to your dose of religiousity. Mind you I pray to and praise God when I want benefits too but I won't condemn other people if they choose not to do the same. And before you reply this ask yourself what would Jesus do or say.

Kusetic:
You keep harping on about greed, you are the greedy one for thinking that God is a bank that you deposit 10% of your earnings monthly into and get regular returns. You are basically telling me that you are paying for a service from God. And I will ask you again to tell me where Jesus who is the only Way, Truth and Light dedicated a sermon or even a parable to tithing not a verse where he was telling off Pharisees for focusing on tithing and forgetting basic human kindness and justice. I am not not Holy but I thank God for my life.

Smadeinc:
Lol
Not really...my creative thinking tank is on holiday,i just don't get why you say "questions would be uploaded at so so so time" and I've put my mind at that time and u just change it... Is it fair??

nelsonoba:
why is head-shaking considered a hobby for you? don't you have anything better to do with your head......like creative thinking? The people who have been winning since, do they have two heads and you have only one that you only use for 'shaking'?