@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrim.1

You should read this thread from the beginning before accusing me of dodging your question .

I have carefully followed the discussion up until your last entry above (#95). I entered the discussion in other to offer my persuasions and wonder why you should suddenly have concerned yourself only with my entries besides others that have shared their views.

If you seek to engage me in any discussion, try not "demanding" that I answer your question. I have done so several times and never seen you address my questions - which was why I stopped entertaining your attitude of "demanding" answers from others when you have never sought to discuss with them. And for that reason, I decied to specifically take you and olabowale to single neat threads and face specific issues - if for any other thing, just to show how you and olabowale never seriously seek to discuss any issue.

babs787:

The topic is on trinity and my question has been in line with the thread.

When we talk about the Trinity, we have always made it clear that it involves God being known as FATHER. Is that not in line with the thread as well?

babs787:

You have been deceiving people with this hallucination of John that 'in the beginning was the word and the word was withg God, and the word was God.

I never deceived anyone - otherwise they would have complained here or by email. Meanwhile, I am not the one who wrote John 1 v 1 - so why hypocritically try to assume that allegation against me?

babs787:

You should be able to defend all you have been saying all these days.

I have done that quite nicely, thank you. Otherwise, there are far more intelligent readers who would have complained and also pointed out where I have not defended them. Just because i stopped entertaining your mendacity does not mean that your allegations are true or make sense at all.

babs787:

Tell me the Greek word for God in that particular verse or you don't have where you can cull it from again?

When you learn to address the issues I offered you, then I can attend to your request (if you learn not to "demand" anything from others).

@pilgrim.1

When you learn to address the issues I offered you, then I can attend to your request (if you learn not to "demand" anything from others).

I anticipated it. You will always ignore question that seems too hard for you on the pretext that one answer yours first before you will answer another person's.

If I may ask you, can you bring me threads where I have been asking you to do same before I would answer you?

@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrim.1

I anticipated it. You will always ignore question that seems too hard for you on the pretext that one answer yours first before you will answer another person's.

Rubbish! You have been playing that game of "answer my question" when you discuss with others - so don't wet your diapers here complaining about your own mischievous art.

babs787:

If I may ask you, can you bring me threads where I have been asking you to do same before I would answer you?

What have you been doing in THIS thread?

Trinity is real.God almighty is one and He manifest in three form which is the Father,Word and the Holy spirit.The Word of God was made flesh and dwell among us (Jesus Christ),and the Bible call Him God in John 1vs1.and Jesus said ,the Spirit of the Lord His the One dat proceed out of the Father.He his the Angel of His Present,He His the third God head (note,not third in ranking)and He His the One the brings the present one the Father everywhere at thesame time,and He his God.and The Spirit and the Fathere dwells in Christ.
You can only understand these i say by the help of the spirit of God,cos when u try to reason it with your understanding u will fail
God Love You all

Just the same way you have failed in writing it down! Explain it again, I wanna read it from you, in a new entry, please! So that I understand you: When Jesus came to being, the word of God was flesh then? Right? Is there still any word with God, Who remained in His Majesty, separate and apart from Jesus? Was this God's word audible: "this is my son, in whom am well please?" Was that statement from from God, His 'word?'

If father and holy spirit dwelt inside Jesus, then when Jesus died, crucified on the cross, according to the Bible (and of course, the Muslims do not believe it), the enties that dwelt in him (father and holy ghost), must have died with him, or did they escape the cruxifixion, leaving Jesus alone to bear the brunt of the all thing? You have a lot to explain or this should open your eye!

Olabowale has a body and a soul.

Does this mean there are two Olabowales on earth

lol

i have a body, soul and spirit

i must be three!

Gamine the spirit lets go to d market
because Gamine the soul dosnt want to go

@ imhotep
there is only one olabowale on planet earth

@ gamine
you are not 3 personalities.you are gamine!

this is d bottom line

You are a spirit, you have a soul, then you live in a body.period!

Your spirit connect 2 infinite knowledge
Your soul 2 d realm of imaginations or realities
Your body - an ordinary monitor which display what it's been fed by the spirit /soul.

check my post on spirit, soul, n body. kingsikaz

@Kingsikaz:

@ imhotep
there is only one olabowale on planet earth

@ gamine
you are not 3 personalities.you are gamine!

this is d bottom line

You are a spirit, you have a soul, then you live in a body.period!

Your spirit connect 2 infinite knowledge
Your soul to the realm of imaginations or realities
Your body - an ordinary monitor which display what it's been fed by the spirit /soul.

check my post on spirit, soul, n body. kingsikaz

You are wrong my man. There are many Olabowale in Yorubaland. Then I have met others who are not even Yorubas! It seems as if you know that spirit and soul are just names of one single entity or part. Prior to it being fused into a human being body, it is in spiritual realm. But when it is fused and the man is slive, it is a living soul that has a physical body! But when the man dies, the soul is detached from the lifeless body. The soul returns back into the spiritual realm, which it was before being connected to the mere body which brought that body into being!

Now am gonna quiz you for good soul searching. Remember I did not say spirit searching. If we are to assume for a moment that the soul is not the spirit, or vice versa, then i will like you to answer the following questions for me:

a. During Pregnancy, if the soul does not fuse with the body, but it is the spirit will there be a living baby delivered?
b. If its is the Spirit that does not fuse with the body, during the same pregnancy, but the soul that fuses, will there be a living baby delivered ?

c. If the soul is detached from the body of a living man, but the spirit is still attached, will the man still be alive?
d. If the spirit is detached from the body of a living man, but the soul is sill attached , will the man still be alive?

Do you now realise that soul and spirit are inseparable entity in relationship with man, dead or alive (lifeless or living)?

Now we come to understand, if either is absent in a man, that the result is death, hence we can conclude that the two, soul and spirit are just names of the same matter/element in a man. If you do not have this element, the man is dead! In Islam, we see that the souls of the children of Adam, were taking from the back of Adam, and were gathered in a single gathering. Then Allah, the Creator asked them, "Am I not your Lord?' And the souls affirmed it. Hence, the soul had confessed in the Lordship of its Creator. This soul will witness against the person, (body and soul) who worshipped other(s) with or completely separate from or deny the existence of this Creator.

The spirit in man which is actual soul, is not the same spirit as tje spiritual beings which we call "Angels." The holy spirit therefore is not but Angel Gabreil!

@olabowale,

olabowale:

If father and holy spirit dwelt inside Jesus, then when Jesus died, crucified on the cross, according to the Bible (and of course, the Muslims do not believe it), the enties that dwelt in him (father and holy ghost), must have died with him, or did they escape the cruxifixion, leaving Jesus alone to bear the brunt of the all thing? You have a lot to explain or this should open your eye!

This is typical Muslim reasoning - just linear and unable to grasp simple concepts. No worries, because when I was a Muslim, I thought the same way as well - to no fruit or benefit to me as a Muslim.

But here is something that snapped that cord from my life and helped me to understand the Trinity and acknowledge that it is true:

In Islam, there is a belief that those who die are not necessarily dead! They have simply departed this world, but are still "alive" in a spiritual realm. This is exactly what was explicated in explicated in the cancelled verse of the Qur'an where those who died were said to have sent a message through Gabriel (Jibril):

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 52, Num. 57:

Gabriel informed the Prophet that they (i.e the martyrs) met their Lord,
and He was pleased with them and made them pleased. We used to recite,
"Inform our people that we have met our Lord, He is pleased with us and
He has made us pleased" Later on this Quranic Verse was cancelled.

Of course, if these people have simply ceased to exist, how could they have been speaking of "we", "our" and "us" while they are dead? Please notice two things here:

      ~ the source is a SAHIH Hadith - meaning that it is regarded as authentic among Muslims

      ~ the verse that was cancelled was a Qur'anic verse! It means that it does not appear in the present Qur'an read by Muslims around the world, even though the Sahih Hadith clearly acknowledges the fact!

In any case, what is important here is that "death " does not mean that the person no longer exists! When Jesus died as MAN on the Cross, that death in no way diminshed His deity, nor His power, nor His very essence. In the body, He experienced our pain, our sorrow, our fears - most of all, He experienced our humanity without sin! When He went to the Cross, He took our place - for He did not die for any sin that are accused upon Him; rather He died for our own sakes, so that we might live. For in dying, He destroyed the power of death, the power of fear, and the power of sin in the lives of those who receive Him as Lord and Saviour.

Those who mock on are doing just one thing, really: they are demonstrating that they do not know the glorious liberty of a life free from SIN and FEAR of divine judgement! That is the one reason they caricature everything about Christ. . . and it is clear that some of these Muslim propagandists have nothing better to offer than the shameless ridicule they have made of Him, while pretending at the same time that they "love and respect" Jesus in Islam!

@olabowale,

olabowale:

b. If its is the Spirit that does not fuse with the body, during the same pregnancy, but the soul that fuses, will there be a living baby delivered ?

Instead of being so desperate to cover your hypocrisy with false assumption, do you care to answer this oft-repeated question:

        WHERE in Islam did you learn the fallacy that the soul is FUSED with the Body?

Do you know what is meant by being "fused" with the body?

It will do you a world of good to stop using fallacies to argue your points - it would only continue to damage your lies for Islam. Haba!

@ olabowale.
i guess you are suffering from what i call "knowledgesomania". it seems the whole has clogged up in ur brain. wai can't u be simple.

what do u mean by there are many olabowale in yorubaland or what not? infact you are a KID. no sense at all.

@ pilgrim 1
hi great mama. so u dey there. how body. feel u jare.


dont mind this olabowale of a thing, i think he's suffering from knowledgesomania.

Greatest @kingsikaz,

kingsikaz:

@ pilgrim 1
hi great mama. so u dey there. how body. feel u jare.

No mind me - busy-body wan kpai me, no be small. I don study so tey, my eye dey spin for library, so I jus say make I play small for Nairaland before my clock ring alarm!

kingsikaz:

don't mind this olabowale of a thing,

<<gulp!!>> e don reach like that? I no know say he is now a "thing".

kingsikaz:

i think he's suffering from knowledgesomania.

Abeg bros, allow me be d first to harvest that one into my vocab list! Small time now, Nairalanders go begin read "knowledgesomania" from me (I don tire with "bloviates"!

Enjoy o jare!

@ pilgrim1

free world!

imhotep:

Olabowale has a body and a soul.

Does this mean there are two Olabowales on earth

Impressive logical approach, to explaining the concept of Christians three God in One. Nevertheless your logic does not agree with what other religions or non religious beliefs, believe in. Yet its very sound and logical.

Logical:

Impressive logical approach, to explaining the concept of Christians three God in One. Nevertheless your logic does not agree with what other religions or non religious beliefs, believe in. Yet its very sound and logical.

The Christian doctrine of three PERSONS in one God is borne out of the EXPERIENCE of believers. The witnesses of Christ, the Pentecost etc etc.

Experience is stronger than theory.

@imhotep

The Christian doctrine of three PERSONS in one God is borne out of the EXPERIENCE of believers. The witnesses of Christ, the Pentecost etc etc.

Who are the witnesses you referred to?

Let me refer you to a thread I started concerning the pronouncements of Muhammed and the authority of Jesus disciples->

Please click her -> https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-110129.0.html

@Imhotep: Show us, Book, Chapter, verse page and line, if you have any, to point to us where "TRINITY," can be found in the 'BIBLE." If you don't have it, why are you even talking about Trinity? There is nothing called trinity?

"The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God and together, not exclusively, they from one God. The Trinity is co-eternal, without beginning or end, and Jesus (Pbuh), is considered by the Trinitarians as having two natures-human and divine. He is believed to be the Son of God and full God as being the second person of the Godhead of the Trinity doctrine. co-equal."

(Matthew 4:10,): for it is written, "You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve."
(John 17:3, Bible) he says: "And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christi whom thou hast sent."
(John 20:17): ". I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."

Are these statements not clear? Where from Jesus came to be accepted as God? Close to a billion people around the world continue to believe and practice the doctrine of the Trinity while twofold of them, if not more, reject it outright on the ground that it is not biblical but also fallacious, baseless, senseless, repugnant and contrary to reason.

The different doctrines of Christianity like the Trinity was a later development. Its inception began during the reign of Emperor Constantine the Great at (Nicaea) and later developed into a full blown dogma at the time of Emperor Theodosius in 381 C.E. Substantially, the contents of the Bibles are not Scriptures but only stories, accounts, events and traditions." The problem become more complex with versions of the Bible contain more books than the others. The Orthodox Version (OVC), contain 86 books; the Charismatic Version (CV), contain 76 books; the Roman Catholic Version (RCV), contain 73 books and all the Protestant versions, contain 66 books including the New World Translation of the Holy Scripture [1984] (NW), used by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Of all these books no where was the word TRINITY found. The more i tend to read on it the more i get confused, and the part i understand most is the part that confused me the most

another offensive thread to me as a christian . . . when am i going to issue my own fatwah and use veiled threats of "tension" to forcely muzzle any discussion on this non-biblical issue of trinity?

@4Him: All that is required is truth in advertising: Show all of us, Christians and non Christians, where is TRINITY? When we write, we should write truth, not fallacy!

@olabowale

1) That Jesus is God:
John 1:1 -> "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Philippians 2:5–8 -> "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!"

Colossians 2:9: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form"



2) That the Holy Spirit is God:

Acts 5:3-4 -> Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."



Trinity is not God's name in the Scriptures. It refers to his mode of 'existence'. YHWH is His name.

@imhotep


@olabowale

1) That Jesus is God:
John 1:1 -> "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was [b]God."[/[/b]quote]

Can you supply me the Greek word for 'God' in the verse up?

Philippians 2:5–8 -> "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!"

Save yourself that brother. Supply me where the OT prophets preached Trinity and where said same. The verse supplied is given by someone that never knew Jesus and Jesus never gave him persmission to write anything about him.

I asked Pilgrim a question 'did Jesus really die on the cross and please do you have your proof and those that witnessed the crucifixion?

Colossians 2:9: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form"

Do you have the saying of Jesus or early prophets on Trinity?

2) That the Holy Spirit is God:

Acts 5:3-4 -> Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

Where did it say that Holy spirit is God?

If Jesus is God, Holy spirit is God, why is sin against Jesus has forgiveness but that of holy spirit has no forgiveness.

Why is Jesus not aware of the time the world will come to an end but only God in heaven knows?

Trinity is not God's name in the Scriptures. It refers to his mode of 'existence'. YHWH is His name.

Really!!Can you break that down for me please?

Thanks

@babs787,

babs787:

Can you supply me the Greek word for 'God' in the verse up?

Please stop reycling the plagiarized and mendacious articles of people like Ahmed Deedat who have no clue as to what Greek is! There are various terms in Greek for "God" - and if you've been hiding behind such plagiarized comments of Deedat, you're only helping to celebrate the fact that you have never sat down to check out his unfortunate ideas.

@stimulus

Please stop reycling the plagiarized and mendacious articles of people like Ahmed Deedat who have no clue as to what Greek is! There are various terms in Greek for "God" - and if you've been hiding behind such plagiarized comments of Deedat, you're only helping to celebrate the fact that you have never sat down to check out his unfortunate ideas.

It seems you cant defend this your doctrine of trinity. Was the NT written in Greek or no and if we have the greek, what is the greek word for 'God' in that verse?

Supply me where the OT prophets preached Trinity and where said same.

Trinity is Revealed by Christ only in the NT.

I asked Pilgrim a question 'did Jesus really die on the cross and please do you have your proof and those that witnessed the crucifixion?

The Jews handed Jesus over to the Romans because he said he is the son of God (the Jews knew the implication of this).

Matthew 26:63-67 - > "The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?" "He is worthy of death," they answered.

Jesus bore witness to His Sonship by dying for it!!

Do you have the saying of Jesus or early prophets on Trinity?

Matthew 28:19 -> "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

If Jesus is God, Holy spirit is God, why is sin against Jesus has forgiveness but that of holy spirit has n.o forgiveness.

Beautiful question. The sin against the Holy Spirit has to do with a hardheartedness that rejects the loving/saving action of God - like referring to Jesus as beelzebub, the prince of demons. God does not force salvation on anybody

Why is Jesus not aware of the time the world will come to an end but only God in heaven knows?

He also tells the rich young man who calls him 'Good Master' that 'No one is good but God alone' . Jesus is not struggling for authority with His Father. If His Father wills that He should not know when the world will end, he lovingly obeys.

Trinity is not God's name in the Scriptures. It refers to his mode of 'existence'. YHWH is His name.

The Trinity is a Christian doctrine, stating that God is one Being Who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons : the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit.

YHWH = "I am that I am." (Exodus 3:14)

Jesus also says John 8:58 "before Abraham was, I Am." (he was nearly stoned to death because of this)

edited.


@babs787,

If you really want to discuss this issue, please smart up for it. You never complained about whether or not the NT was written in Greek - and unless you have a clear pointer as to what other language it was written in, I do not see why you're whipping that as an excuse for this.

Please go and review Deedat's article that you plagiarized and see that you have no clue how you have absolutely rubbished his argument even on this Forum.

Can I ask you these simple questions:

(a) which of the Greek terms in John 1:1 is properly used for God?

(b) what is the meaning of "ton theon"?

(c) what does theos mean?

If I can get honest answers from you on those three, I will deal with your argument about John 1:1. My singular objective here is to demonstrate that Deedat had no clues about Greek, and he only used his fallacies to cheat his readers. Can I see you answer those questions - and I promise to take up your own queries.

@stimulus


Why pretending as if you did not see my questions? I asked questions and you should go ahead to provide answers and not beating about the bush in searh of what to say.

@babs787,

I saw your questions addressed to others. If you would like to discuss your assumptions, please be dignified to answer those simple questions and I will keep my promise to address yours.

@Imhotep

Trinity is Revealed by Christ only in the NT.

Where is that?

The Jews handed Jesus over to the Romans because he said he is the son of God (the Jews knew the implication of this).

Matthew 26:63-67 - > "The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?" "He is worthy of death," they answered.

Can GOD sit at the right hand of himself?

Jesus bore witness to His Sonship by dying for it!!

Where is that and who witnessed the crucifixion?

Quote
Do you have the saying of Jesus or early prophets on Trinity?

Matthew 28:19 -> "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

Firstly, what is your understanding of 'all nations'?

Secondly, does the above sounds like trinity to you before I expose you further?

Quote
If Jesus is God, Holy spirit is God, why is sin against Jesus has forgiveness but that of holy spirit has n.o forgiveness.

Beautiful question. The sin against the Holy Spirit has to do with a hardheartedness that rejects the loving/saving action of God - like referring to Jesus as beelzebub, the prince of demons. God does not force salvation on anybody.

Save yourself that crap. Since God is three in one, why is one part aware and the otherpart is not aware?

Quote
Why is Jesus not aware of the time the world will come to an end but only God in heaven knows?

He also tells the rich young man who calls him 'Good Master' that  'No one is good but God alone' . Jesus is not struggling for authority with His Father. If His Father wills that He should not know when the world will end, he lovingly obeys.

Did you read your post at all? You said Jesus is God and I asked you the above question.So are you saying that his father is superior to him?

Quote
Trinity is not God's name in the Scriptures. It refers to his mode of 'existence'. YHWH is His name.

The Trinity is a Christian doctrine, stating that God is one Being Who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a mutual indwelling of three persons : the Father, the Son (incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth), and the Holy Spirit.

YHWH =  "I am that I am." (Exodus 3:14)

Jesus also says John 8:58  "before Abraham was, I Am." (he was nearly stoned to death because of this)

How does that relates to trinity?













@stimulus

I am thinking if you are in anyway related to pilgrim. She avoids questions on the pretext that I must answer hers before she would answer mine even though I asked mine before hers.

So chairman, thanks for admitting seeing my questions, can you still go ahead and provide answers, then we will go deep into that issues. Trust Babs for that