I'm sorry, many Catholics here and elsewhere are the ones confusing "catholic" for "Catholic"

Ignatius did not identify the term 'catholic' to the Church in the sense that Catholics do today.

Omenuko:

@piligrim.1

Ok, so let me undstand you clearly.  You (pilgrim.1) are asserting that Cyril of Jerusalem (a bishop) was being dubious and far removed from the Bible for using the term 'Catholic' as a title for the Church of Christ, is that right?  You go on to use this quote to buttress your point to negate chukwudi44's quote where it states that Rome has some form of authority (see below).

Omenuko:

Tertullian also writes: "But if you are near Italy, you have Rome, where authority is at hand for us too. What a happy church that is, on which the apostles poured out their whole doctrine with their blood; where Peter had a passion like that of the Lord, where Paul was crowned with the death of John (the Baptist, by being beheaded)."

You go on to say:


And dismiss the writings of 1st century bishops because you believe they were on "ojoro" (whatever that is) and state your unbelief in their subscribing the term 'Catholic' to a particle Church in Smyrna.

Omenuko:

You ask:
In addition, you ask:
I clearly can't tell if you are reading what we are posting.  This whole discussion started because someone made a silly comment about not following the Catholic Church, because yadda yadda yadda. . . .Catholics entered, and stated that the guy must be a hyprocit (or maybe ignorant) because the Bible he is using to castigate the Catholic Church was compiled, safeguarded, and distrubted by that same Church, the Catholic Church.  Not even you, pilgrim.1, can deny this.  All you have to do is check your history books (Catholic and non-catholic).

Omenuko:

Some one then stated something to the effect of, the Catholic Church wrote the Bible (I'm sure the person probably meant New Testament).  This was countered.  Both sides to that argument have valid points.  It was further stated that all churches came from the Catholic Church or put differently, the Catholic Church is the mother of all Churches.  It seemed like you, pilgrim.1, assumed that the term 'Catholic Church' meant Roman Catholic Church.  Well, Lady corrected you a while back and posted all of the churches within the Catholic Church (see list below):

Omenuko:

Pilgrim.1, as you can see from the list. . . .the way the title 'Catholic Church' is used today is the exact same way Cyril of Jersulam used it during his time.  There is the Catholic Church in Russua, in Antioch, in Ethiopia, in Ukrain, in Romania, etc.  Do you object to the way the term 'Catholic Church' is being used to describe particular churches or do you not understand why we use it the way we do?  That same Church that Jesus founded is the same Church that early century christians and latter day christians call the "Catholic Church."  I posted a qoute from a 4th century bishop (not from Rome) that gives you the reason why the Church of Christ came to be called the Catholic Church.  I'll post it again:

Omenuko:

Why was the term Catholic used to describe the Church of Christ?  To identify it among the multitude of false churches that were claiming to also be the "Church of Christ."  You (pilgrim.1) disregarded the above qoute because it was written in the 4th century (note: this was before the approval of the Bible canon by the Pope).

Omenuko:

I then posted bishops of the Catholic Church (none of them from Rome, lest you guys claim them to be liers and biased) from the 1st and 2nd centuries who used the term 'Catholic Church' the same way we use it today.  You (pilgrim.1) countered by saying 'where in the Bible' do we find the term 'Catholic Church'?  How ridiculous is that argument?  It was the Catholic Church that compiled the Bible.  The term Catholic was used both to describe the universality of the Church and also as a way to determine where the Church of the apostles is located (the one founded by Christ).

Omenuko:
You guys conitinue to dilude yourselves in believing the Bible just appeared from no where and had nothing to do with the Catholic Church.

Omenuko:

Well, I didn't come here to argue and convert people to the Catholic faith, but rather I came to educate some who ignorantly believe the Bible fell down from heaven.  I think I have provided statements from 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th century christian bishops that have adequately addressed this topic.

Omenuko:

from pilgrim.1
The same church fathers that compiled your Bible. . . .go figure.

@lady

1. Notice that i never called you an idiot hence i was suprised that you accuse me of doing so.

2. I actually decided to be friendly and build on out past interactions on this nairaland, hence to say i am suprised by your vitriol would be an understatement. I tut you and I would have come around to have an understanding of being polite and cordial. Even KAG seems to be the most cordial and polite person to discuss with on NL out of atheists, catholics and muslims, despite that we both had a little bit of brief history.

3. If you take time to notice my posts, you would notice that they are based on scriptures and have answers in the scriptures.

4. Once again let me repeat, there is no central church according to the bible. Even the Messiah Himself made this obvious wen he refered to the 7 churches in the book of revelation. He never called any of the churches by the name "catholic". No where in the bible do you find where the bible says whether or not the Messiah created a so called Catholic Church.

5. There is only one Spiritual Church (aka the bride of the Messiah aka the body of the Messiah).

6. There is no central physical church, hence why the Messiah himself refered to separate physical churches in the book of revelation.

8. The catholic church was created out of amalgamation of socio-political manenours and not from scriptures.

9. I would be grateful for you to please respond to my previous posts line by line using the Bible alone. I do not reckon with any other source apart from the bible.


Thank you.

~Lady~:

The only denominations out there are those who broke from the Catholic church. The Catholic Church is simply just THE CHURCH. People who want to make a distinction with catholic and Catholic are those who are still too stubborn to accept the truth. They want to justify their beliefs, they refuse to believe that they've been wrong all along. If they were right all along, why did they even bother to start calling themselves 'catholic,' they could've just continued with how things were. Why try to call themselves catholic?

~Lady~:

And then you Pilgrim.1 rather than just accepting that ok the early christian writers did call the Church, Catholic you decide to make it what it isn't.
It's called denial, and I smell a lot of denial from you.hmmmmm.

~Lady~:

What's the difference in the sense he identified catholic and the sense we identify catholic today?

The point is that 'Catholic' was NOT a name of any church or even the Church founded by Christ. The term 'catholic' today is used as a denominational appellation to describe the system headed by the Papacy

There's no need to be accusative, for there's good reason to see a difference between 'catholic' and 'Catholic' - we have seen this confirmed among Catholics on this forum.

Catholic:
Universal or general; as the Catholic church. Originally this epithet was given
to the Christian church in general, but is now appropriated to the Romish church,
and in strictness there is no Catholic church, or universal Christian communion.
The epithet is sometimes set in opposition to heretic, sectary or schismatic.
~~ Websters 1828 Dictionary

Catholic:
Applied to the Church in Rome c.1554, after the Reformation
~~ Etymological Dictionary

It's interesting that Omenuko observes this as regards the term 'Catholic' -- "the way they are using the term is the exact same way the Catholic Church uses it today". I wonder HOW they use the term today if it differs from the fact that it simply is alluding "The Roman Catholic Church, officially known as the Catholic Church" [here].

You Catholics should tell us and demystify the 'official' from what we see from Scripture.

Did Catholics WRITE the Bible? That has been the question, stop confusing yourself.

~Lady~:

I've also been asking you who wrote the Bible if Catholics didn't write it. I asked that question from page 2, we're on page 6 and you've done nothing but dodge it. Why should anyone answer you when you yourself refuse to answer anyone's questions? That's called hypocrisy madam, if you didn't know. Answer the questions that you've been asked yourself and stop beating down someone to do the very thing you refuse to do.

~Lady~:

No sensible Catholic will tell you that Catholic is a denomination. It is not a denomination and the Catholic Church as you know it today is NOT a denomination. If it is called a denomination, it is called a denomination by non-catholics as in you. Which is the reason why I say that we catholics amongst ourselves refer to the Church as THE CHURCH because we know that it is the same Church founded by Christ spoken of by the apostles.

~Lady~:

I really wish I could draw a diagram on this board. I will try my best to visually show you how it is the same church.

THE CHURCH by Christ spoken of by the apostles(catholic) [East and West together]--------------> THE CHURCH (catholic) [East and West in schism], so now you have the East Orthodox (still catholic but not in union), and the West Catholic (still in union so it is still the "origianal" catholic). So from the West Catholic came the Protestant denomination with its own new set of beliefs not based on the Bible. The West Catholic and some of the East Catholic come back together in union. So it is still basically what it was in the beginning THE CHURCH by Christ spoke of by the apostles.

~Lady~:
THE CHURCH is not a denomination, it is only a denomination in the minds of non-catholics. Catholics will tell you that the Church is not a denomination.

~Lady~:

Catholic is not a name or a denomination, it is a description of the Church, you might as well call the Church the ONE CHURCH, or the HOLY CHURCH, or the APOSTOLIC CHURCH. We've never and still do not consider ourselves a denomination. Therefore the Church spoken of by Ignatius and others, still refers to the Church that YOU know today as the Catholic Church, that I know today as THE CHURCH.

~Lady~:

The problem in this discussion, is that you think the Catholic church today is a denomination. We didn't 'denominate' (i'm not sure that's actually a word, but if it gets the point across, good)  from anything, you guys 'denominated' from us. Therefore you guys are the denominations we are not. Does that clarify it for you?

~Lady~:

So let it be clarified that the way in which Ignatius identifies the Church, is the same way we identify ourselves today. The Church is universal, and meant to be universal.

~Lady~:

I was really trying to avoid this, but it seems this might be what makes it clear for you, and it's not meant to be an insult, it is meant to make a distinction.

~Lady~:

You guys in the formal term are heretics

~Lady~:

If you were to hold the belief you do today in the time of Peter, Paul, and the other apostles, you would be called blatantly a heretic.

~Lady~:

If you were to do some research and look at the beliefs of the early christians, and you can find this through non-catholic sources, some universities have this in their databases, you will see that the things YOU condemn today are the things they sacrificed their life for.

~Lady~:

So basically you guys are actually OUTSIDE of the Church, as in you are not a part of the Body of Christ. But the Church holds the belief that there are those who are not aware of the full teachings of the Church, and therefore have not rejected the Church, and so they have the opportunity of making it in to heaven. But if you are fully aware of the teachings of THE CHURCH and are blatantly against them, then you're on your own.

~Lady~:

There was never a thing as 'catholic' and 'Catholic'. It was started by those who are not a part of the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, and APOSTOLIC CHURCH.

~Lady~:

You're still proving my point. Notice the dictionary is webster's 1828, the Catholic Church existed before then.

~Lady~:

Also notice that the Catholic referred to the church in Rome, after the Reformation, we know that this same church that is now referred to as catholic after the reformation, existed before the reformation, what was it called before then? Was it called a denominational catholic?

~Lady~:

Ok did you read any of the posts at all? Or do you just have talking points to spew out or is it that you want to use selctive amnesia?

~Lady~:

I remember specifically pointing out to you that the Roman Catholic Church is not officially known as the Catholic Church, that the Eastern and Western Catholic churches are officially known as the Catholic Church.

~Lady~:

Please do not be so childish for me to repeat myself again and again. Learn to pick up a thing or to, seriously.

~Lady~:

Why should I tell you when you already made an assertion as if you already knew? If you didn't know why would you make such a claim? Answer my question please. You don't see anything from scripture.

~Lady~:

Was the Church divided with different beliefs?

~Lady~:

Did anyone get up and start preaching on his/her own? or were they commissioned by the apostles to places to preach the gospel?

~Lady~:
Was the Church Un-Holy?

Was the Church in only one place?

~Lady~:

You insinuated I was the one that was wrong between the convo pilgrim and i were having because I was catholic, you didn't even read the post to see that Pilgrim confused me and Omenuko.
That is called making an assumption, and in your assumption, you insinuated I'm the idiot and obviously the person that was wrong, and you only did this based on the fact that I am catholic.
Rather than telling Pilgrim that I wasn't her enemy either, you only saw it fit to pound your delusions on me, not because I'd done anything wrong, but because I am catholic. My dear that is prejudice, learn to recognise it.

You came to me nicely by insulting me? If I were to say you're a bastard and to tell you I was saying it in a nice way would you believe me?
You want me to be Polite after you insinuated I'm an idiot and an idol worshipper? Is that how you make your friends, by insulting them?

~Lady~:

You lack reasoning and are completely ignorant. You need to beath the crap out of your parents for not paying attention to your education, and you need to go back to all your schools and flog every teacher you ever had and request your school fees back. And if you schooled in Nigeria, you are nothing but a disgrace to the Nigerian School system, because you clearly cannot tell the difference between insulting someone and asking them to be cordial with you. I doubt you even know the meaning of the word cordial.
Oh by the way all that I just said was to make peace, and to show that I really want to be cordial. I really want to be friends.
Like I said, your opinion on the Church doesn't count, being able to back up your assertions counts.
If all you say above is true, then back it up.

Catholic:
      Universal or general; as the Catholic church. Originally this epithet was given
      to the Christian church in general, but is now appropriated to the Romish church,
      and in strictness there is no Catholic church, or universal Christian communion.
      The epithet is sometimes set in opposition to heretic, sectary or schismatic.
      ~~ Websters 1828 Dictionary

      Catholic:
      Applied to the Church in Rome c.1554, after the Reformation
      ~~ Etymological Dictionary

Omenuko:

@pilgrim.1

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the below definition?

Omenuko:

Catholic:
      Universal or general; as the Catholic church. Originally this epithet was given
      to the Christian church in general, but is now appropriated to the Romish church,
      and in strictness there is no Catholic church, or universal Christian communion.
      The epithet is sometimes set in opposition to heretic, sectary or schismatic.
      ~~ Websters 1828 Dictionary

      Catholic:
      Applied to the Church in Rome c.1554, after the Reformation
      ~~ Etymological Dictionary

For that definition to have words like 'Romish Church' signals red flags for me.

Omenuko:

I tried searching for the word using using the Merriam-Webster dictionary and this is what I found:

Etymology:
Middle English catholik, from Middle French & Late Latin; Middle French catholique, from Late Latin catholicus, from Greek katholikos universal, general, from katholou in general, from kata by + holos whole — more at cata-, safe

1 a often capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the church universal; b often capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the ancient undivided Christian church or a church claiming historical continuity from it ; c capitalized : roman catholic
2: comprehensive, universal ; especially : broad in sympathies, tastes, or interests <a catholic taste in music>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/catholic

Am I to presume the writers of this dictionary are also dubious and far removed from the Bible?

catholic
CATHOLIC, a.

1. Universal or general; as the Catholic church. Originally this epithet was given to the Christian church in general, but is now appropriated to the Romish church, and in strictness there is no Catholic church, or universal Christian communion. The epithet is sometimes set in opposition to heretic, sectary or schismatic.

2. Liberal; not narrow minded, partial or bigoted; as a catholic man.

3. Liberal; as catholic principles.

Catholic epistles, the epistles of the apostles which are addressed to all the faithful, and not to a particular church.
CATHOLIC, n. A papist.

source: "1828 edition of Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language" [see here]

[/list]

Catholic (catholic)

a. (kth"***osl]****ibreve]k)
Cath"o*lic
[L. catholicus, Gr. kaqoliko`s, universal, general; kata` down, wholly + "o`los whole, probably akin to E. solid: cf. F. catholique.]

Universal or general; as, the catholic faith.
Men of other countries [came] to bear their part in so great and catholic a war.
Southey.

* This epithet, which is applicable to the whole Christian church, or its faith, is claimed by Roman Catholics to belong especially to their church, and in popular usage is so limited.

Not narrow-minded, partial, or bigoted; liberal; as, catholic tastes.
Of or pertaining to, or affecting the Roman Catholics; as, the Catholic emancipation act.
Catholic epistles, the epistles of the apostles which are addressed to all the faithful, and not to a particular church; being those of James, Peter, Jude, and John.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Catholic
Catholic (catholic)
n. 
Cath"o*lic


A person who accepts the creeds which are received in common by all parts of the orthodox Christian church.
An adherent of the Roman Catholic church; a Roman Catholic.
Old Catholic, the name assumed in 1870 by members of the Roman Catholic church, who denied the ecumenical character of the Vatican Council, and rejected its decrees, esp. that concerning the infallibility of the pope, as contrary to the ancient Catholic faith.

source: 1913 edition of Webster'[/b]s American Dictionary of the English Language [[url=http://1913.mshaffer.com/d/search/_words.word,catholic]see here[/url]]
(1913 edition of the 1900 International, renamed Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary).[/list]

Omenuko:

For that definition to have words like [b]'Romish Church' signals red flags for me.

Rom"ish (?), a.

Belonging or relating to Rome, or to the Roman Catholic Church; -- frequently used in a disparaging sense; as, the Romish church; the Romish religion, ritual, or ceremonies.

source: Everything2

romish - Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 :

  Romish \Rom"ish\, a.
     Belonging or relating to Rome, or to the Roman Catholic
     Church; -- frequently used in a disparaging sense; as, the
     Romish church; the Romish religion, ritual, or ceremonies.
     [1913 Webster]

romish - WordNet (r) 2.1 (2005) :

  romish
      adj 1: of or relating to or supporting Romanism; "the Roman
             Catholic Church"

source: database.com

Romish (romish)
a. (?)
Rom"ish

Belonging or relating to Rome, or to the Roman Catholic Church; -- frequently used in a disparaging sense; as, the Romish church; the Romish religion, ritual, or ceremonies.

source: [url=http://1913.mshaffer.com/d/search/_words.word,romish]1913 edition[/url] Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

Please be honest to yourself. Catholics (such as Omenuko) had quipped that "the way they are using the term is the exact same way the Catholic Church uses it today" - and I wondered if this meant the Roman Catholic Church - having pointed to the Wikipedia source that clarifies this point. Was it used before the reformation as an OFFICIAL title before the reformation?

Aww, I knew you'd come up with such an excuse. In other words, what you can't establish in Scripture is to be excused away? Brilliantly romish.

Catholic Letters
Aspects of this topic are discussed in the following places at Britannica.
Assorted References

in biblical literature: The Catholic Letters

As the history of the New Testament canon shows, the seven so-called Catholic Letters (i.e., James, I and II Peter, I, II, and III John, and Jude) were among the last of the literature to be settled on before the agreement of East and West in 367. During the 2nd and 3rd centuries, only I John and I Peter were universally recognized and, even after acceptance of all seven, their varying,

gen2genius:

Omenuko et al, could you provide answers to my question? I'll repeat it:

What's the basis of the Catholic church's teaching on purgatory and "penance"? Huh

chukwudi44:

@gen2genius

Could you please prove via ur unbiblical your sola scripture policy that pastors should be riding private Jets while their poverty stricken members go hungry.

Omenuko:

@pilgrim.1

I do think it odd that you quote an outdated dictionary that uses words that clearly illustrates bias and offense towards Catholics.

Omenuko:

It claims that the term 'Catholic' was used for the Christian church in general, which is false.

Omenuko:

Even if that is the case, it does not give any dates as to when the word Catholic was appropriated by this "Christian church in general".

Omenuko:

I'm assuming when it states "Romish church" it is referring the the Roman Catholic Church. The word 'Romish' is a derogatory word that protestants call Roman Catholics.

Omenuko:

Even the definitions you posted for 'Romish' states that it is frequently used in a disparagingly sense. Why do you claim that this definition is a fact.

Omenuko:

I clearly showed you quotes that show the word Catholic being used as early as the 1st century. Even the definition I posted from Merriam-Webster states that the word 'Catholic' was used to refer to the ancient undivided Christian church or to those churches that claim continuity from it.

Omenuko:

The Merriam-Webster definition substantiates the claims from the quotes of the church fathers I posted earlier. The same church fathers that you claimed were dubious and far removed from the Bible.

Omenuko:

Yes, do you want me to post the other quotes of christians referring the the Church as the Catholic Church before the reformation?

Omenuko:

Can you not refer to Catholics or Catholic ways as 'romish'? I would greatly appreciate it.

Omenuko:

The Catholic understanding of the early church is different from most present day protestant and non-catholic churches. For one, we call Peter our first Pope. You may disagree and that's ok. If we believe that Peter is the first Pope, doesn't it go to show that his writings and the writings of many of the apostles are 'Catholic letters'? The Church refers to many writings of the New Testament as Catholic letters.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/99842/Catholic-Letters

Omenuko:
The term "catholic letter," first appears, with reference only to 1 John, in the writings of Apollonius of Ephesus, a second- century apologist, known only from a citation in Eusebius's Ecclesiastical History. Eusebius himself (A.D. 260-340) used the term to refer to all seven letters. The reason for the term "catholic," which means "universal," was the perception that these letters, unlike those of Paul, which were directed to a particular local church, were apparently addressed more generally to the universal church. As as been stated before, the term Catholic has been used both as a descriptive for the early Christian Church and as a proper noun to distinguish it from other false churches, writings, and teachings (which were many).

Purgatory is mentioned as prison in 1 peter 3:19

I would also like you to answer some questions for me.

why is it that when it comes to prayers you must go sraight to Jesus ,since he is the only mediator between God and man ,but when tithes and offering are involved you are free to go through your pastor to Jesus?

also since Jesus died for our sins and paid the price for our  salvation ,why do we still need to pay tithes to obtain salvation and prosperity?

Also since you practice sola scripture (which is actually unbiblical) wy do you beleive your pastors when he tells you God spoke to him even when it is not in the bible?

Also I thought your father martin luther was preaching against sales of indulgences(which was far less than 10 %),how come your pastors now insist members must pay tithes ,a jewish practice outlawed by the death of Jesus on the cross.

chukwudi44 link=topic=:

If you want to contribute to the gowth of christianity go and start preaching against tithes and prosperity preaching because that is the greatest heresy ravaging christianity today .Pentecostal pastors have been fleecing their members of their hard earned money by telling them that thier finances will be affected if they don't pay tithes.[/b]WHEN YOU REMOVE THIS LOG OF MONEY WORSHIPING IN PROTESTANT CHURCHES YOU WILL SEE MORE CLEARY THE SO -CALLE

folami86:

oh ye of little faith
Better tithing than taking money from criminals. Catholic Church has absolutely no qualms about taking criminal's money, and in fact thrive off of it. Look at all those mafias who were/are contributing heavily to the catholic churches - from Al capone to the ***** family (don't wanna mention that name) Catholics are living off Mafia's money. Try reading this book -The Vatican Exposed: Money, Murder, and the Mafia

@topic

So you agree that your greedy pastors are extorting money from their cnfused congregation for purchase of private jets and other materiaslistic things .

The word of the Lord makes it clear in galatians 5:4 that anyone who depends on the law to make themselves straight with christ has been cut off from grace,since he has rejected the sacrifice made by Jesus on the cross of calvarly.

Your greedy pastors for the love of money repudiate the sacrifice of the cross,it's not for me to condemn them I leave them for God.

The way I see it, God wrote the Bible, utilizing the hands of man. II Timothy 3:16. Moses wasn't a Catholic. Neither was David. And I'm pretty darn sure that Matt, Mark, Luke and John were all Jews.
The Catholics did not write the bible because they came into existence around 1050 after they split from the Eastern Church and formed the papacy in Rome. They tried to modify the Bible to match their "unique" thinking but thank God for worldwide proofreaders. catholics have much to learn from the Christian Churches whether from their teaching or fellowship.

Let's us continue to pray for one another.


I initially thought you ara stupid but now I know that term is too edifying for you,
I thought you people said that catholics corrupted the church at the council of nicea,how come the now came into existence in1050AD

Mind you all the apostolic churches;roman catholic,oriental orthodox,eastern orthodox,nestorian,assyrian church of the east has similar doctrines regarding veveration of saints ,use of images.

The eastern orthodox also uses the same canon as the catholic church,(73 books)the oriental orthodox makes use of more books(78 books),their own canon includes books like jubilees ans enoch.

About the compilation of the bible the original manuscripts were nevere found ,it was the earliey church fathers that compiled and gave us the bible.David ,moses e.t.c were not at the synod of hippo or the local councils of carthage that decided the books of the bible

chukwudi44:

So you agree that your greedy pastors are extorting money from their cnfused congregation for purchase of private jets and other materiaslistic things .

chukwudi44:

The word of the Lord makes it clear in galatians 5:4 that anyone who depends on the law to make themselves straight with christ has been cut off from grace,since he has rejected the sacrifice made by Jesus on the cross of calvarly.

chukwudi44:

Your greedy pastors for the love of money repudiate the sacrifice of the cross,it's not for me to condemn them I leave them for God.

pilgrim.1:

@chukwudi44,

Are you now so desperate about the things you read on Catholicism that your best defence is to drub about with your under-utility grade invectives? People are seeking to hold discussions here, even though on sensitive issues sometimes reactions may be too forward; but you guys are not making a good cause for your defences if these yowlings are your first-aid.

The Catholic Church is known for materialism as well. While many believers across board (Catholic and non-Catholic) deplore these excesses, we know it's no news that Catholics also seek to build the most expensive cathedrals in their various locations - an example give below:



"the most expensive in American history"
~ California Catholic Daily

We all have our various compliants, chukwudi44; but if the only thing you can be concerned about as the bastion of your Catholocism is to keep pointing accusing fingers at others, there's more bad news from Catholic quarters than you may realise - wake up and smell the coffee.

Most people who tithe are not depending on the Law to make themselves straight with Christ. This very unintellectual harrumph has been dribbled in to make it sound as if that is the case with tithers - another duplicity to your feathered and weathered cap and cape. On the other hand, have you ever asked yourself why the Catholic Church (ie., Roman Catholicism) has a different listing of the 10 Commandments than what the Bible teaches? Why have they conveniently hidden the expressly forbidden idolatry in the 2nd commandment so they can keep bowing down to idols?

_{disclaimer: I don't mean to be offensive to other Catholics; but if chukwudi44 and his brainless harpers cannot behave, they would keep creating an environment for non-Catholics to bring up issues which Catholicism does not want the public to be aware of.}

We don hear - which is why you just go and sleep and leave them for God. Or, you can keep banging your head on the wall about what others are doing when you have a bigger nightmare to settle in Roman Catholic backyard.

chukwudi44:

Any church can decide to build $5trillion dollar building for all as I care for as long as the money is not sourced through threats and false doctrines like tithes.

chukwudi44:
Roman catholic don't have anyother set of 10 commandments other than the ones in the bible

chukwudi44:
the commandment actually says
"You shall not make for yourself any image, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth"

chukwudi44:
The definitions of image includes pictures,carvings,moldings and drawings.

chukwudi44:
Suprsingly the same moses who gave the law was the same person that molded the bronze serpent.Also solomon built the temple and flooded the temples with carvings of winged creatures,He also decorated his throne with carved images of lions.

chukwudi44:

Also in modern times all of us are guilty of taking pictures thus producing images of objects on earth.

chukwudi44:

I know a lot of pentecostal and other protestant pastors who take pictures and appear in television thus ceating images of things on earth.

chukwudi44:

Why didn't you berate the poster for saying that catholics aren't christians,you criticize me fopr exposing your hypocritical teachings.

chukwudi44:

Go and ask your pastors to stop stealing from their members in the name of tithes.

chukwudi44:

By the way which pentecostal church do not quote malachi whenever it comes to the issue of tithing? is malachi not talking about the law?

chukwudi44:

@ pilgrim
There is no universal agrrement on the 10 commandments by jews and christians see the links below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

chukwudi44:

If you like you can claim that wikipedia is not reliable because it does not supportyyour stupid arguments

pilgrim.1:

I see. If the Catholic Church was taking money from people on pretext of false doctrines, as long as it is not tithes, you're quite at home to celebrate Catholic money-grabbing charade?

False. Patently false. We know that Roman Catholicism does not have any list of the 10 commandments where the 2nd commandment features.

WHY is that very commandment dropped from the Catholic list of the Decalogue?

Why is the 2nd commandment not in Catholic list?

Did either Moses or Solomon bow down in worship to them?

Nope, not all of us are guilty of bowing down to images - the very thing that Catholicism enjoys and without which is will self-destruct.

Do they bow down to the images - ALL of them?

I criticize your shameless duplicity - live with it. It is not today that Catholics have been shouting that non-Catholics are not Christians and are not saved. That is no news - but the OP opened a thread asking that Christians should not let Catholicism deter them from the Christian Faith. You can knock your head a million times and make many false assertions - they will be bleached as many times as you want them.

I don't have pastors that dragoon tithes from people, just as there are MANY Catholic churches that explicitly state that they are a "tithing" church or parish. If tithing is your worry, start from your Catholic priests who are still tithing before worrying over others.

Sorry, Malachi was not about the Law - the Law made absolutely NO MENTION of any storehouse. And I know many Catholic Churches that also mention Malachi when preaching tithes.

_______________________________

It's funny how you want to wriggle from this issue. BOTH Christians and Jews agree on the same things in the Decalogue - they also quote the 2ND COMMANDMENT. Not so with the Catholic Church that deliberately dropped the 2nd commandment in order to keep bowing to idols.

I did not make any such claims. If you're going to be insolent all your days because Catholicism is making you sweat for your wea defences, I can well bear with you. As for your arrant trash about Wikipedia, I've addressed it well in another thread. Dress well if you're still struggling to excuse your weak defences for the Popery.