The Roman Catholic Church, headquartered in Rome, Italy, has its own powerful City-State, the Vatican, and claims over 968 million members worldwide and 60 million in the U.S. and Canada (as of 1996). (Catholic membership figures are considerably misleading, though, in that they count as members every person who has been baptized Catholic, including millions of people who were baptized as infants but who are not practicing Catholics.) The Roman Catholic Church, in its pagan form, unofficially came into being in 312 A.D., at the time of the so-called "miraculous conversion" to Christianity of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Although Christianity was not made the official religion of the Roman Empire until the edicts of Theodosius I in 380 and 381 A.D., Constantine, from 312 A.D. until his death in 337, was engaged in the process of simultaneously building pagan temples and Christian churches, and was slowly turning over the reigns of his pagan priesthood to the Bishop of Rome. However, the family of Constantine did not give up the last vestige of his priesthood until after the disintegration of the Roman Empire -- that being the title the emperors bore as heads of the pagan priesthood -- Pontifex Maximus -- a title which the popes would inherit. (The popes also inherited Constantine's titles as the self-appointed civil head of the church -- Vicar of Christ and Bishop of Bishops.)

Prior to the time of Constantine's "conversion," Christians were persecuted not so much for their profession of faith in Christ, but because they would not include pagan deities in their faith as well. Then, with Constantine's emphasis on making his new-found Christianity palatable to the heathen in the Empire, the "Christianization" of these pagan deities was facilitated. For example, pagan rituals and idols gradually took on Christian meanings and names and were incorporated into "Christian" worship (e.g., "saints" replaced the cult of pagan gods in both worship and as patrons of cities; mother/son statues were renamed Mary and Jesus; etc.), and pagan holidays were reclassified as Christian holy days (e.g., the Roman Lupercalia and the feast of purification of Isis became the Feast of the Nativity; the Saturnalia celebrations were replaced by Christmas celebrations; an ancient festival of the dead was replaced by All Souls Day, rededicated to Christian heroes [now Hallowe'en]; etc.). A transition had occurred -- instead of being persecuted for failure to worship pagan deities, Christians who did not agree with the particular orthodoxy backed by the Emperor were now persecuted in the name of Christ! "Christianized" Rome had become the legitimate successor of pagan Rome! This is the sad origin of the Roman Catholic Church.

Below are the highlights of what Catholics believe concerning their source of authority; God, Christ, and Mary; salvation and the sacraments; and heaven and hell. So much more could be said concerning not only the items listed below, but also concerning other areas of Catholic teaching (such as the claims of the Roman priesthood and its supposed origin in the Apostles; the nature of the pope's alleged infallibility and the supposed origin of his office in the Apostle Peter; the nature of the Confessional; the doctrine of penance/indulgences; practices concerning rituals, ceremonies, and relics; the doctrine of Celibacy; policies on marriage and divorce; the role of the parochial school; etc.). Excellent reference sources for a thorough treatment of Catholicism’s origins, beliefs, and practices would be Roman Catholicism (466 ppgs.) and A Woman Rides the Beast (544 ppgs.).

1. Source of Authority. With respect to the Bible, Catholics accept the apocryphal books in addition to the 66 books of the Protestant Bible. They also accept tradition and the teaching of the Catholic Church as authoritative and at least equal to that of the Bible (cf. Mk. 7:8,9,13; Matt. 15:3,6,9; Col. 2:. With respect to papal infallibility, Catholics believe that ecumenical councils of bishops and the pope are immune from error when speaking ex cathedra about faith and morals (i.e., "from the chair" -- by sole virtue of position or the exercise of an office). (And by "infallible," Catholics mean much more than merely a simple, de facto absence of error -- it is positive perfection, ruling out the possibility of error. For more on infallibility, see notes on Vatican II below). In actuality, Roman Catholicism places itself above Scripture; i.e., it teaches that the Roman Catholic Church produced the Bible and that the pope is Christ's vicar on earth. Catholics also maintain the belief in sacerdotalism -- that an ordained Catholic priest has the power to forgive sins (cf. 1 Tim. 2:5).

2. Jesus Christ. Catholicism teaches that Christ is God, but they, nevertheless, do not believe that Christ's death paid the full penalty for sin; i.e., they believe that those who qualify for heaven must still spend time in purgatory to atone for sin (cf. Jn. 19: 30; Heb. 10:11,12).

3. Mary. The Catholic Church gives honor and adoration to Mary that the Scriptures do not; she is readily referred to as "holy," the "Mother of God," and has been dubbed the "Co-Redemptrix," thereby making her an object of idolatrous worship (e.g., the rosary has ten prayers to Mary for each two directed to God). In 1923, Pope Pius XI sanctioned Pope Benedict XV's (1914-1922) pronouncement that Mary suffered with Christ, and that with Him, she redeemed the human race. And Pope Pius XII officially designated Mary the "Queen of Heaven" and "Queen of the World." Catholics claim not only that Mary was perfectly sinless from conception, even as Jesus was (doctrine of Immaculate Conception, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX in 1854), but that the reason she never sinned at any time during her life was because she was unable to sin (cf. Lk. 1:46,47; Rom. 3:10,23; 5:12; Heb. 4:15; 1 Jn. 1:8,10). Catholics also believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin (cf. Ps. 69:8; Matt. 1:24,25; 13:54-56; Mk. 6:3; Jn. 7:5), and that she was assumed, body and soul, into heaven (doctrine of Assumption of Mary, declared ex cathedra by Pope Pius XII in November of 1950 -- that Mary was raised from the dead on the third day after her death, and anyone who refuses to believe this has committed a mortal sin). The consequence of all this veneration of Mary, in effect, establishes her authority above Christ's -- Rome says, "He came to us through Mary and we must go to Him through her." All this is so obviously idolatrous, one wonders why Catholics take offense when their religious affections are called cultic.

4. Salvation. Catholics teach that a person is saved through the Roman Catholic Church and its sacraments, especially through baptism; they do not believe that salvation can be obtained by grace through faith in Christ alone, but that baptism is essential for salvation. Catholics believe that no one outside the Catholic Church can be saved (Unum Sanctum) (cf. Jn. 5:24; Eph. 2: 8,9; Gal. 2:21; Rom. 3:22,23). (See also The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism and the New Catholic Catechism (paras 819 and 846.) They also believe that one's own suffering can expiate the sin's of himself and of others, so that what Christ's suffering was not able to achieve, one can achieve by his own works and the works of others (Vatican II).

5. Sacraments. Catholics have seven sacraments: baptism, confirmation, Eucharist (mass), penance/reconciliation (indulgences), extreme unction (last rights), marriage, and orders (ordination). Although not even formally decreed until the Council of Florence in 1439, the Council of Trent later declared all to be anathema whom do not hold Rome's position that it was Christ Himself who instituted these seven sacraments! (The idea behind the sacraments is that the shedding of Christ's Blood in His death upon the cross is of no value unless it is somehow dispensed and applied "sacramentally" by the Catholic priesthood.) Although Catholics believe that the first five sacraments are indispensable for salvation (because without any one of them, a mortal sin has been committed), baptism is considered the most important. Catholics believe that a person enters into the spiritual life of the Church through baptism; i.e., baptismal regeneration -- that a person can be saved through baptism (actually, 'on the road to salvation,' because Catholics never know exactly when they are saved). They practice infant baptism because they believe baptism erases original sin (cf. Jn. 3:18).

6. The Mass. Unknown in the early church, the mass did not become an official doctrine until pronounced by the Lateran Council of 1215 under the direction of Pope Innocent III, and reaffirmed by the Council of Trent. The Church of Rome holds that the mass is a continuation of the sacrifice that Christ made on Calvary -- in effect a re-crucifixion of Christ over and over again in an unbloody manner (cf. Heb. 9:22; 1 Jn. 1:7). They believe that by this means Christ offers Himself again and again as a sacrifice for sin (cf. Heb. 7:27; 9:12,25,26; 10:10,12,14,18), and that this sacrifice is just as efficacious to take away sin as was the true sacrifice on Calvary. Catholics thus teach the doctrine of transubstantiation (meaning a change of substance) -- that the bread and wine (at communion) actually become (by the power of the priest!) the body and blood of Christ, which is then worshiped as God Himself! Indeed, the sacrifice of the mass is the central point of Catholic worship, as evidenced by the fact that those abstaining from attending mass are considered to have committed a mortal sin.

7. Purgatory. Though of pagan origin, the doctrine of purgatory was first conceptualized in the professing church in the second century; the Roman Church proclaimed it as an article of faith in 1439 at the Council of Florence, and it was confirmed by Trent in 1548. The Catholic Church teaches that even those "who die in the state of grace" (i.e., saved and sins forgiven) must still spend an indefinite time being purged/purified (i.e., expiated of sins/cleansed for heaven). (Technically, this "purging" can occur in this life rather than in purgatory itself, but as a practical matter, purgatory is the best the average Catholic can hope for.) Some Catholics will admit that the doctrine of purgatory is not based on the Bible, but on Catholic tradition (which, by Catholic standards, is equally authoritative) (cf. Jn. 5:24; Lk. 23:43; 1 Jn. 1:7,9; Phil. 1:23). (Others teach that it is based upon the interpretation of several Scriptural texts -- 1 Cor. 3:15; 1 Pe. 1:7; 3:19; Matt. 12:31.) They teach that those in purgatory can be helped by the prayers and good works of those on earth (which would include the "purchase" of masses and/or other indulgences), but they are not certain how these prayers and works are applied (cf. 2 Pe. 1:9; Heb. 1:3; Jn. 3:18; 19:30; 2 Cor. 5:6-.

8. The Church Councils. There have been three major Roman Catholic Councils: Council of Trent (1545-1563), Vatican I (1869-1870), and Vatican II (1962-1965). The last Council, Vatican II, offered no new doctrines nor repudiated any essential teaching of the Roman Church; it referred to Trent dozens and dozens of times, quoted Trent's proclamations as authority, and reaffirmed Trent on every hand. Even the New Catholic Catechism (1992/1994) cites Trent no less than 99 times! There is not the slightest hint that the proclamations of the Council of Trent have been abrogated by Rome. At the opening of the Second Vatican council, Pope John XXIII stated, "I do accept entirely all that has been decided and declared at the Council of Trent," and all of the Catholic leaders who attended Vatican II signed a document containing this statement. (The last pope, Pope John Paul II, has even cited the Council of Trent as authority for his blasphemous position on Mary.):



Council of Trent -- The Council of Trent was held in an attempt to destroy the progress of the Protestant Reformation; it approved many superstitious and unbiblical beliefs of the Middle Ages (all to be believed under the threat of "anathema":

(a) Denied every doctrine of the Reformation, from Sola Scriptura to "salvation by grace through faith alone";

(b) Pronounced 125 anathemas (i.e., eternal damnation) upon anyone believing what evangelicals believe and preach today;

(c) Equal value and authority of tradition and Scripture (in actuality, tradition is held above Scripture);

(d) Scriptures for the priesthood only (prohibited to anyone in the laity without written permission from one's superior -- to violate this was [and still is in most "Catholic countries" today] considered a mortal sin);

(e) Seven sacraments;

(f) Communion by eating the bread only (not drinking the wine);

(g) Purgatory;

(h) Indulgences;

(i) The Mass as a propitiatory offering.

Vatican I

(a) Defined the infallibility of the pope;

(b) Confirmed Unum Sanctum (no salvation outside of the Catholic Church).

Vatican II -- made no new doctrines, nor did it change or repudiate any old ones; Trent and Vatican I stand as is (i.e., Vatican II verified and validated all the anathemas of Trent). Vatican II reaffirmed such Roman heresies as papal supremacy; the Roman priesthood; the mass as an unbloody sacrifice of Christ; a polluted sacramental gospel; Catholic tradition on equal par with Scripture; Mary as the Queen of Heaven and co-Redemptrix with Christ; auricular confession; Mariolatry; pilgrimages to "holy shrines"; purgatory; prayers to and for the dead; etc. (Although the restriction against laity reading the Scriptures has been removed, it is still a mortal sin for a Roman Catholic anywhere to read any Protestant version of the Bible. That the real attitude of the Vatican toward the Bible has not changed is shown by the fact that in 1957 the depot of the British and Foreign Bible Society in Madrid, Spain was closed and its stock of Bibles confiscated and burned.)

(a) Reaffirmed the infallibility of the pope (and even when he does not speak ex-cathedra, all Catholics must still give complete submission of mind and will to what he says);

(b) Divided Catholic doctrine into that which is essential core of theology, and must be received by faith, and that which is still an undefined body of theology which Catholics may question and debate without repudiating their essential Catholicism;

(c) Established 20 complex rules concerning when and how any indulgence may be obtained, and condemned "with anathema those who say that indulgences are useless or that the Church does not have the power to grant them ... [for] the task of winning salvation."  [Back to Text]


A Sampling of the Anathemas of Trent:
If any one shall deny that the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore entire Christ, are truly, really, and substantially contained in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist; and shall say that He is only in it as a sign, or in a figure, or virtually -- let him be accursed (Canon 1).

If any one shall say that the substance of the bread and wine remains in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, together with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and shall deny that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the blood, the outward forms of the bread and wine still remaining, which conversion the Catholic Church most aptly calls transubstantiation -- let him be accursed (Canon 2).

If any man shall say that Christ, the only begotten Son of God, is not to be adored in the holy sacrament of the Eucharist, even with the open worship of latria, and therefore not to be venerated with any peculiar festal celebrity, nor to be solemnly carried about in processions according to the praiseworthy, and universal rites and customs of the holy Church, and that he is not to be publicly set before the people to be adored, and that his adorers are idolaters -- let him be accursed (Canon 6).

If anyone shall say that the ungodly man is justified by faith only so as to understand that nothing else is required that may cooperate to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is in no wise necessary for him to be prepared and disposed by the motion of his own will ... let him be accursed (Canon 9).

If anyone shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed (Canon 12).

u know what ur essay or whatever is too long not to give pple migraines for them to read and understand . cos i personally wont read it. pls shorten

PrettyH. Is this an outburst or something close to it? I am well aware that there are at least 5 way in which you could have made the same statement or given the same pointer without sounding so crude and rude. It is an opinion supported with facts, so you could call it an essay, in that sense. However the fact that it could give people migrain is immaterial. I am very sure that if you attended a university, your "project" was at least 10 pages long and you sure did read it word for word without getting a migrain.

As for you not reading the article, it is your loss. I believe people are here to air their views and you are entitled to do same just as I am. If I have chosen to write a long essay in order to express myself satisfactorily as well as incorporate ingrained facts, that is my business and if you choose not to read it, that too, my dearest, is your business.

This is supposed to be an online meeting place of people with various character and mind sets as well as divergent values, cuturally and otherwise. There is no limit to the number of characters one can write. If there was supposed to be limitations as to the length of articles, the moderators of this site would have imposed those limitations. However, since I haven't noticed any, I am very sure I will continue to express myself in as many pages as I deem neccessary. By the way, there is no law saying you must read it. Have a nice day.

Quite interesting take you have on these issues, elbaron

Contrary to many apologetical literature, I have not seen one factual error in your account. As a matter of fact, I fully agree with your position that the the Catholic Church has taken in a lot of pagan elements to appease to its constituency. Could you give us the sources you have used to compile this post?

What I don't understand though is what exactly you wish to accomplish with this post. Can you enlighten us?

Nferyn, thanks for your response. What I hope to accomplish by this article and many more to follow is to expose the Catholic church for the cult it is. My essays will be supported by hard facts as well as catholic dogma, Papal pronouncements and edicts.

As for my sources, you will find more enlightenment from the Vatican itself. Infact, my major source is the Vatican itself. Please see: http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/

See also: http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/trent.htm for the declaration of trent. See also: http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ctbull.html. Most importantly, I want you to see the following link for a complete text of the vatican council: http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/v1.html.

By the way, I plan on writting another article on the conspiracy that led to the murder of Pope John Paul 1 (Albino Luciani) by certain elements in the vatican. Murder in the name of God. If you need more sources to prove my essay on the Vatican Ecumenical Councils shout and I will come running. Have a nice day.

The El-Baron

You are very right, but the same can be said for all organised religions.
Only the fact that the Roman Catholic Church has held her position of power for so long ensured that there is more dirt to dig up within the Catholic Church.
The Protestant Churches are not entirely free of vice either. The behaviour of the Lutherans, the persecution of the Anabaptists by the Calvinists, the reign of terror by the Puritans, etc are not exactly examples of outstanding behaviour, wouldn't you say?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to your next episode

Thanks for your response. Of course a lot of evil has been commited in the name of God. This evils should be exposed when found. I think christiandom is filled with all sorts of rubbish which should be cleaned out as soon as possible, if it is not already too late. I am sure we can discuss this things. As for the catholic, I think they are a cultist movement and I have evidence to support that. Which is why I am kind of particular about that. Still working on the article. It should be finished sometime today. Thanks for reading.

The El-Baron

@albaron

why do pple always take things personal. u want opinions on the issue right. no prob. but u didn't give ur view. just some historical insight or are u saying this is your view?

elbaron,

Against "unpopular" opinion I, myself, enjoyed your long winded post and I received many revelations from it and I want to Thank You for taking the time to share with us.  I will look forward to reading your next "book" ! (and opinions...we all have one...and none are the same)  Other than getting a migraine I actually was lifted high in the Spirit and received a few "chills" that the Spirit gives when you read something that you should note...what a Teacher !!!

A transition had occurred -- instead of being persecuted for failure to worship pagan deities, Christians who did not agree with the particular orthodoxy backed by the Emperor were now persecuted in the name of Christ!

What a statement...I love it
Much like the one I have made before:
Saul couldn't beat God's Beloved so he joined the Beloved in the disguise of Paul but the "sheep's clothing" is getting pretty "moth eaten" and will soon be shorn...or just burnt off...?!!

In actuality, Roman Catholicism places itself above Scripture; i.e., it teaches that the Roman Catholic Church produced the Bible

That statement may be very true...they took over and gather all Scripture on threat of murder to any that it was found , which many died because of not giving their Scripture up, and Rome
burnt the "evidence" after modeling their version after it.  They had no idea that there was a Holy Spirit sent from the Father to teach us His Truth and He can show us the lies and teach us accordingly of His Truth.

John 14:16-17 
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26-27 
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

John 15:26-27 
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
And ye also shall bear witness...

that an ordained Catholic priest has the power to forgive sins

Ordained?...only if He is born of the Spirit, then he could forgive sins...
Mr 2:7
Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Mr 2:8-10
And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins

Lu 11:4
And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us...

Catholicism teaches that Christ is God, but they, nevertheless, do not believe that Christ's death paid the full penalty for sin; i.e., they believe that those who qualify for heaven must still spend time in purgatory to atone for sin

I need to pick this apart to give my comments:

"Christ is God",

no, there is only one God, the Father and Creator of all...

"...do not believe that Christ's death paid the full penalty for sin" 

Where exactly does it say that our sins were paid for by His death, and I assume they mean on the cross (the "bloody" death)  This death was a means to return to the Father, only!  Don't think in the flesh but the Spirit (Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth ) Dead TO the flesh NOT death of the flesh is how Jesus "paid" the full penalty for sin...He lived for the Father and spoke His Words That is what will save us from sin...believing His Words and not what the flesh thinks They say.  The Holy Spirit is our spirit's Teacher, only!

Joh 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Joh 1:32-34
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode (stayed) upon him.
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Spirit
And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.  (the First of Many Sons...)

Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Mr 10:45
For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life (not His death in the flesh, but His Life in the Spirit) a ransom (notice, not a "sacrifice... but, ransom...)for many (soon to become the Sons' of God ) 1Jo 3:1-2  Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.  Beloved, now are we the sons of God

Joh 15:22
If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had [sin/b]  but now they have [b]no cloke for their sin

Joh 16:8-9
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment
Of sin, because they believe not on me  (how much plainer can it be said? 
 
Sin is unbelief and only unbelief!  What we were told was "sin" is just the "symptoms" of the sickness of the unbelief!  God, the Father, in the OT and through His Son Jesus said many, many, many times: 

Mark 5:36 
As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.

Luke 8:50 
But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.

John 5:44
  How can ye believe, which receive honour one another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Ac 4:19
But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto men more than unto God, judge ye


Adding this one just to show you a "peek" under those "sheep clothing"...

Philippians 1:29  For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake
(what a lier and he is the father of lies)
Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end
(don't ya just Love Him ?!!!! ) 
Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

Joh 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin (unbelief) is the servant of sin (unbelief/satan )

Joh 8:46
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

..."they believe that those who qualify for heaven must still spend time in purgatory to atone for sin "

 
For one  you do not "qualify" for Heaven if you have sin to atone for at the death of the flesh...

Joh 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

and Jesus said:

Joh 11:25-26
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

the rosary has ten prayers to Mary for each two directed to God

Mt 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Mt 6:9
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name (no "name" mentioned, fill in the blank as mentioned in another thread...)

Mt 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Mt 6:5-6
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 
(who knows of "persons" actually going into a "closet" to pray?!!  This is where the original saying of "coming out of the closet..." came from.   
no, a joke...or at least I think it was a joke 

Rome says, "He came to us through Mary and we must go to Him through her."

Jesus says:

Joh 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,  but by me.

Catholics teach that a person is saved through the Roman Catholic Church and its sacraments, especially through baptism; they do not believe that salvation can be obtained by grace through faith in Christ alone, but that baptism is essential for salvation.

Catholics have seven sacraments: baptism, confirmation, Eucharist (mass), penance/reconciliation (indulgences)...
...Although Catholics believe that the first five sacraments are indispensable for salvation (because without any one of them, a mortal sin has been committed), baptism is considered the most important. Catholics believe that a person enters into the spiritual life of the Church through baptism; i.e., baptismal regeneration -- that a person can be saved through baptism (actually, 'on the road to salvation,' because Catholics never know exactly when they are saved)...

On baptism / Baptism (Joh 1:33...he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which Baptizeth with the Holy Spirit)

If you are a sinner and are baptized with water you come out a wet sinner ... this baptism is only an outward "show"

but

If you are Baptized with the Holy Spirit of "fire" that "burns" your "sin (unbelief) to ashes (under your feet) you are saved, salvation has come and you will "hear" what Jesus heard at the moment of His re-birth into the Spirit

Mt 3:16-17
And Jesus, when he was baptized , went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying,  This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased  (WOW!!)

God has an "order of things" and Jesus was following it.
John the B said he was sent to baptize with water but One was coming who would Baptize with the Holy Spirit.  So, Jesus fulfilled this then and now Baptism with the Holy Spirit can happen at anytime of turning to God, the Father, and asking forgiveness of your unbelief (sin).  So, more than likely you will not get water baptized till after you are born of the Spirit.  This makes it an outward show of an inward change.  Other wise, like I said before, you only come out a wet unbeliever (sinner)

" Catholics never know exactly when they are saved"

WOW!!  You would think that being "burnt with fire", walking on ashes (Joh 13:10  Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit.  Joh 15:3  Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.   (Funny, Jesus says we are clean from His spoken Word but I always hear-tell we are "cleansed by His blood"  Who are we to believe?  Now that's food for thought...a large "cud" to chew on...)  and hearing that "voice from Heaven" and knowing you were now a Son of God that you would know something happened....wouldn't you..?...more food for thought... !

There is a "story" behind my "WOW"s that I will tell at the right moment so if you "think" I am yelling...You are Right !!    (but not at you but because of Him )

Love and Blessings to You and Yours,
RhodaRose

In the Palm of His Hand      Michigan USA is  "mitten" shaped and I live in the geographic center of the lower pennisula...we even have a monument to prove it!

PS  Just saw another post that came in while I was writing my "book"

What I don't understand though is what exactly you wish to accomplish with this post. Can you enlighten us?

I guess I said it best with my "opinion":

Against "unpopular" opinion I, myself, enjoyed your long winded post and I received many revelations (enlightenments!) from it and I want to Thank You for taking the time to share with us.  I will look forward to reading your next "book" ! (and opinions...we all have one...and none are the same)  Other than getting a migraine I actually was lifted high in the Spirit and received a few "chills" that the Spirit gives when you read something that you should note...what a Teacher !!!

...continue the loonnngggg "work"  elbaron   

The truth bites huh?

[Posted by: prettyH
Insert Quote
u know what your essay or whatever is too long not to give people migraines for them to read and understand . because i personally wont read it. please shorten/quote]

You can say that again Eddy.

@elbaron,
do u need long lectures for catholics to prove a point. What point exactly? U already av an impression of their practises, don't u? Can anything change what u think? Absolutely no.. So if u think its christianity, bro, good for u. If not, good for u

PrettyH, so now you think for me as well? You have made up your mind that nothing can change my mind? Who gave you the authority to decide for me? Why dont you try disproving the facts so stipulated with hard evidence and let's start from there?

obviously elbaron, if u didn't believe otherwise, u'd not av put up the post. Disprove what? I leave pple to their beliefs cos i know it won't change what they believe in. Will proving anything change what u believe..NO.. i do not think so. Well if it would then i'm sure others will try and do that.

Very well, PrettyH. What was the point of your post if are not ready to go through the motions? Anyhow, I will take your word for it that someother people will try to disprove my point. By the way, the reason people convert from one religion to another is because other people took the pains to disprove what they believe. So they see the errors of their way and change. See what I mean? Have a lovely day

So what r u saying, that if people are able to disprove u, u'll change?

No I will not change. I will only change my opinion and my behabioural pattern. My hair color will still be the same and so will my skin texture and body build. Still want to try?

U change, lol, wish u the best then

i dont know if elbaron is still checking this tread.i'm catholic and all he said is right. but his implicit explanation twisted. anyways his final conclusion is wrong the catholic church is not a secret organisation if not u won't get all this info, unless u are a member. rather it is the most open in the world in terms of doctrine and history. if u still around reply so that i can remove the fog from your eye. u may just bcome a beliver.javascript:void(0);

Drag_on. It'd be nice to hear what you have to say about this

a BELIEVER of what exactly, Jesus Christ or the catholic church

www.answeringcatholicism.com

go there it answers all your questions,

to me, catholicism is a carry over of babylonian idolatry acts,

thus, catholicism is a way of paganism, but pple are blinded and they don't want to accept the truth that catholicism is paganism in another different form

lordimpaq:

www.answeringcatholicism.com

go there it answers all your questions,

to me, catholicism is a carry over of babylonian idolatry acts,

thus, catholicism is a way of paganism, but people are blinded and they don't want to accept the truth that catholicism is paganism in another different form

How can catholics be pagan yet they worship christ? you might not agree with some catholic doctrines but that doesn't give u the right to call it paganism

The mainstream authodox christiandom as it stands today was built on what the romans formed into a universal christianity that is now known as catholicism.
So if we should start doubting the validity of catholics as true christians,then we might as well start doubting the entire mainstream christiandom with all it's diverse variants,which will also include protestants,and all the entire african churches in their diverse forms,because they are all based on catholic dogma and doctrine.
What is pure christianity,anyway?Does it exist in this era of ours?

Blue2:


How can catholics be pagan yet they worship christ? you might not agree with some catholic doctrines but that doesn't give u the right to call it paganism

Big deal,blue.The entire mainstream christiandom is paganised through catholicism,so every modern day christian is a quasi-pagan worshipper.It is just that a lot of you have not realised that just yet.
If you want to know what the pagan elements are,i can give you a short list.

jagulabi, before you ferret out your quasi-list of paganism, would I be correct in calling you a pagan?

welborn:

jagulabi, before you ferret out your quasi-list of paganism, would I be correct in calling you a pagan?

Aren't we all?O ma se o!Little do we know.

You might address yourself as a pagan - good for you. I am a Christian, not a pagan. To refer to others as "paganised" is to cast aspersions on them from a prejudiced point of reference. It's the same thing as calling the entire pagan movement "ritual killers" because I know from first hand experience that some pagans do this. You'd just have to be civilised when you address people and not let your thoughts run wild because of your biases.

Let me give you just one single example of why we're all quasi-pagan worshippers;
You celebrate xmas day as the birth of christ on the 25th of december,right?Well,here is a shocker for you,that day is a pagan holiday adapted as christian holliday.Jesus was not born on that date.So when you celebrate xmas,you celebrate a pagan holliday.Oh,there are lots more,but that one should do for you.You can do your own research if you have the courage.
BTW,do you know thr true meaning of pagan?'cos if you do,then you wouldn't be getting so hot in the ears.Go check it out.Informations are at your fingertips,so use them.

welborn:

You might address yourself as a pagan - good for you. I am a Christian, not a pagan. To refer to others as "paganised" is to cast aspersions on them from a prejudiced point of reference. It's the same thing as calling the entire pagan movement "ritual killers" because I know from first hand experience that some pagans do this. You'd just have to be civilised when you address people and not let your thoughts run wild because of your biases.

I think Jagunlabi's statement in his earlier post hits it head on.

jagunlabi:

The mainstream authodox christiandom as it stands today was built on what the romans formed into a universal christianity that is now known as catholicism.
So if we should start doubting the validity of catholics as true christians,then we might as well start doubting the entire mainstream christiandom with all it's diverse variants,which will also include protestants,and all the entire african churches in their diverse forms,because they are all based on catholic dogma and doctrine.

True seekers of Gods truth, true followers of Christ have to ask themselves, what do the scriptures reveal about the strains of Christianity (and I use that term advisedly ) being practised today?

And to answer the ensuing question;

jagunlabi:
What is pure christianity,anyway?Does it exist in this era of ours?

Pure Christianity is clearly revealed in the Holy Scriptures. And yes it does exist today, but there are only "few that find it". It's not the billion strong Catholic faithful, or the hundreds of millions in Protestant traditions (although some seekers may start or pass through forms of institutionalised Christianity).

I'll say this, if you truly seek the truth, at some stage the truth will find you.

(And no, I don't consider myself to have apprehended).

God bless.

@jagunlabi,

Phew! Is that all you could do - just Christmas, and the whole of Christianity in your eyes became paganised? I'm disappointed, you know. I thought you would come back with one big 'gbosa' that we haven't heard before. If you actually took the time to seek out the true essence of the Christian faith, we would not have wasted the precious time of readers on this board.

Oh,i just want to keep things mild,so i won't hurt people's sensibilities too much.I have done too much of that already.Beleive me,i know plenty GBOSA examples,but i won't bother this board with them.Like i said you can find them out yourself,if you can.
But the fact that you celebrate as a christian,the birth of a figure of faith as Jesus on a pagan day,is pretty significant about the inherited paganism of the average modern day christian worshipper.Ofcourse you have a choice to deny.No qualms.But it is there,for all times,and that cannot be denied.

welborn:

@jagunlabi,

Phew! Is that all you could do - just Christmas, and the whole of Christianity in your eyes became paganised? I'm disappointed, you know. I thought you would come back with one big 'gbosa' that we haven't heard before. If you actually took the time to seek out the true essence of the Christian faith, we would not have wasted the precious time of readers on this board.